210112 Bill Snyder (master)
Fri, 2/19 11:33AM • 1:08:20
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coaches, kansas state, people, program, work, leadership, football, question, years, players, jim, important, individual, bit, team, popovich, won, self doubt, run, coach snyder
SPEAKERS
Jim Woolfrey, Paul Barnett, Bill Snyder
Paul Barnett 00:06
Thanks, Jim. Well, good evening, coach Bill Snyder, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Bill Snyder 00:15
Well, thank you for having me. I greatly appreciate it.
Paul Barnett 00:19
We're very excited to talk all things American football with you. Could I ask just a really simple question to begin? Where are you in the world? And what have you been doing today?
Bill Snyder 00:32
Well, I've spent a couple hours this morning. And first of all, I'm in Manhattan, Kansas, I'm sitting in my office at home. I spent the first two hours of the morning, it's presently it's, I think, 130. Here, approximately, but I spent the couple hours this morning, visiting with an author who is writing a book live story book. I have run some errands for speaking engagements that I'm going to do later on in the month, had to mail some autographed books, and written some notes. And here I am.
Paul Barnett 01:29
Well, that sounds like a pretty busy day. So we're pretty excited to have just a little bit of your time today to talk about your amazing coaching journey, and the many achievements that you've had along the way. But if I could, I'd like to start coach Snyder by just going back a little bit, because you've had some great experience with some very good coaches, or perhaps even great coaches, people like Dan Devine, and Hayden fry. And so I'd like to start by just asking you, what is it you think that the great coaches do differently?
Bill Snyder 02:09
Well, I first and foremost, I think most all coaches, successful or otherwise, are different. I think the highly successful coaches are all different from each other. I think they, the successful ones, have a prominent understanding of the environment that they happen to be in other words, they understand their community, they understand their university, they understand the students, they understand the players in their program, they understand the administration, they have a good feeling about about that. I think they, they're, they're honest individuals who have established a foundation of trust within their programs. I think they have done that through honesty, always being able to speak the truth, whether it's wanting to be heard or not. I think they all instill discipline, to a very high degree. I think the integrity, you know, is certainly commonplace. But you know, just a strong value system. Passion for youngsters, and their growth, not just on the football field, but certainly in the classroom and in their own personal lives. I think when young people understand that you have that, that genuine interest, and you prove that you have that genuine interest, and they can trust that you have that genuine interest, then they're willing to make the sacrifices and provide the effort that, you know, gives you the best chance to succeed[PB1]
Paul Barnett 04:15
Caicedo when you were appointed, the head coach of Kansas State, the team had not won a game in two years. They hadn't won a conference title in 44 years. At the time you were, you were 50 years old, and it was your first time as a head coach. This was a risky move, there was a lot of risk and you taking this role, but it paid off. And so I wanted to ask you, what advice would you give other leaders when they are just starting out about risk?
Bill Snyder 04:50
Well, I think you know, the old adage, you know, you can't cheat, achieve anything and if you don't make the effort If you don't try, I thought, or I believe, because I made the mistake earlier in my coaching career when I was in high school level, I think it's important to be who you are. I think when you try to emulate someone else, which I did early in my career, when you, you know, it, just attempt to do it like somebody else does it so to speak, doesn't mean that you can't use things that you've learned from others. But by the same token, you know, it's just important that you express yourself as the individual that you truly are. I think that's probably as significant as anything, you know, it's just the Be who you are and use, use the, you know, the knowledge that you have. And trust that it's that it will work for you and, and have competence and,[PB2]
Paul Barnett 06:14
and it definitely did work for you. And I'd like to talk a little bit about that success later on. But there's actually a small question I'd like to ask you, because in preparing for today, quite fascinated me a little bit that one of the first things you did at Kansas State was to create a new logo for the team at the power cat. And I wanted to ask you, why are symbols so important to you as a coach?
Bill Snyder 06:43
Well, I don't know that symbols, you know, are important to me. Certainly, that one was, but it you know, if you were to go back in Kansas state's history there, the school logo, university logo was Willie, the Wildcat. And so it was the logo for everything. And really, the Wildcat is a very came looking, it's a great logo. It truly is for university, but it really is very mild mannered, assemble. And it was important for the for our program to be able to make change, and to make change that would, you know, promote a more aggressive attitude towards achieving the successes that the program needed. So the power cat logo, I knew, I knew really what, what I wanted, I went to our president and shared with him that I didn't want to interfere with the university logo, because I loved it. I wanted this just to be the football logo. And he consented to that. And that's what it became. But then after several years with that, as a football logo, the University adopted it as as a university logo. Which, you know, okay, I guess. But anyway, that's how, that's how it was created.
Paul Barnett 08:27
Now, it's grown into quite an iconic image. And it worked, I guess, because in that first year, the team won won one game. But significantly, it was the first win in three years. But what I wanted to ask you was in that first year, the team wins one game and I, I imagine you must have had some self doubt. Maybe not, I don't know. But I wanted to ask you, when other coaches come to you, and ask you for advice on managing self doubt, what is it you tell them?
09:05
Well, at the end of the bar first year, I was more confident than ever that we would be better successful program. And it wasn't because we won just one ballgame. It was at the beginning of the of the year, when I first arrived, I took our players out on the field and turned the scoreboard on and I said I'm not going to assess you. Based on what the scoreboard says. My assessment will be made based on your everyday effort to become better. And if you work diligently to improve every single day, you will have success here at Kansas State University. And at the end of the season, even though it was just the one game I was confident that we had made a good deal of improvement consistent Throughout the course of the season, I was confident that, you know, if we continue that we would be a successful program. [PB3] As far as, you know, the, you know, coaches that are going into that situation and, or any kind of situation and create self doubt for themselves. You know, my you know, my my advice, I guess, if you will comment I would make is, don't entertain. So, self doubt. I mean that, that is, you know, it's just what it says itself, you know, meaning you embraced the doubt, and there's no need to I mean, somebody had confidence in you to put you in the position that you're in. That should be somewhat of a motivational factor that others believe, believe in your capabilities. If you, you know, if self doubt prevails, and your chances of being successful are highly limited, and you probably should seek another, another opportunity, or different opportunities,
Paul Barnett 11:24
confidence, self belief, discipline, there are themes that run through your coaching journey, or at least the way that it's reported upon. And there was a great quote I found in preparation for today, and I just like to read it to you before I ask the question, actually, which is, the quote is, any football coach in the country wants his players to honestly, and honestly is a valuable word, believe that they will win, and can win on any day. And I thought this was such a wonderful idea, because many coaches, you see it in press, they talk about reasonable expectations for the season, or their goals for the coming year. And they don't always have such a strong belief. So if there were other coaches listening, and they had a team that was struggling, perhaps, and maybe the title is out of their reach, what advice would you give them on building this kind of strong self belief within the team?
Bill Snyder 12:33
Well, I think, you know, it's not about the kind of as I as I had indicated, you know, it's not about the the ultimate goal as much as it is, you know, the, what would you say objectives. I think the approach, you know, too often, I think coaches enter and to a program, and particularly ones that have had no success or limited success, and identify that ultimate goal they want to achieve. And as I said, the goal is not as significant as the steps that it takes to get there. And the important thing is to scrutinize and identify, you know, the objectives or the steps that it takes to achieve the goals. You know, we all know what the what the goals are, in most programs, you know, is to just to win, you know, to win at all, so to speak. That wasn't truly necessarily ours. But by the same token, the goals were high. And the important thing, though, was still the steps that it took. And when you identify the small objectives or steps, something that they can achieve, or work towards achieving every single day that takes them closer to whatever that established goal might be. and the value of that is that each step that you take, is not as complex is the entirety of achieving the goal. But it does create success[PB4] . And it allows an individual to feel as though there has been accomplishment. I achieved this small objective, you know, whether it's just going to class go into every class today, asking questions in the classroom, something that is an improvement, and it's an objective that will help me reach my ultimate goal. And consequently, the achieving of those small objectives adds to the feeling that you are achieving success and that goal becomes much More, more viable, becomes something that you believe that you definitely can achieve, because you've proven that you're moving closer and closer and closer to it. I don't know if I explained that very well. But that's, that was our approach.
Paul Barnett 15:17
No, you did. And I'd like to actually ask you about steps, actually, because the context is that in your second season, as a coach, things start to improve. And the team finishes with a winning record. 742 years later, in 93, you win the copper bowl, and this starts this amazing streak of 11 consecutive bowl appearances that result in six wins. It really is such an amazing turnaround of the Kansas State program, and so much has been written about that. But what I'd like to do actually is, with the, with the comfort of time, and the ability to look back, are you able to identify any steps or anything that that really started that streak?
Bill Snyder 16:03
Well, you didn't have the numbers accurate. The the we won one ball game in the first year, we won four in the second year, then we won five, and then we won seven, and then we won nine, then we won 11. For the next, I don't know, four or five years, Won 11 ballgames in the next six out of seven years. But if you look at that, you see just gradual improvement. You know, and that was the foundation, as I mentioned before, was the foundation of our program, that gradual daily improvement, that allows you to take steps closer and closer and closer to you know, what your what's your main goal happens to happens to be the you know, the, the bowl games, you know, every every step that we took on a year to year basis, for a long time showed that we were making gradual improvement wasn't anything that just blossomed out of the sand like Las Vegas, it was just very gradual steps. And to me when that foundation is built that way, that it becomes a firmer foundation, and one that is stronger, and one that doesn't erode quickly. [PB5] And I think, you know, the many years of continued success, just a little bit of improvement each year was beneficial to us, as new young people came into the program, and we addressed the all the philosophy so to speak of daily improvement. We could take each youngster back to the history of the program and show how that gradual improvement had taken place in the program, year after year because of what the young people in our program had done in the way of improvement, individual improvement every single day.
Paul Barnett 18:26
Catch nada, my apologies for getting my research wrong that I was hoping I wouldn't get that but I will I will try better next time I'll try to have marginal gains or marginal improvements when i when i get ready to be where I am. I'd like to just talk about one of your old quarterbacks actually Joe Huebner and he said, quote, Coach Snyder is a perfectionist every day he wants everything to be perfect. And you know perfections is a double edged sword Some people think that it prevents you from taking risks or developing and then there's another view that says you know driving and striving for perfection is such an important thing. Why is perfection so important to you?
Bill Snyder 19:14
Well, I you know, I do believe in the ladder and but I also understand that that yes, perfection is all likelihood is not going to be reached. But the old adage you know, the higher you reach of a higher you achieve. And by by saying we're not reaching perfect perfection, we are allowing an individual to to accept less than his best. And what's perfect for one individual is not perfect for another. You know if I can ask for your best performance and John's best performance John's May his best performance may not equal yours. But by the same token, he's doing the best that he can. And so, you know, when I asked for perfection, I was asking for each individual. And I explained this to our players, each individual to be the very best that they can be in all facets of their life, every single minute of every single day of their life. And in striving for that, you know, you at least land in the highest spot that you possibly can. And like I said, it may not, it may not be that high of step of perfection, but it's much higher than it would have been if you if you weren't striving to be the very best that you could.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 20:49
Now, that's a wonderful answer. And I think I think the definition of perfection in it used in that context is something that can inspire all of us whether we're football players, or whether we were just trying to improve at running a podcast or doing your maths homework, I think it's a good example. I coach nada, you have such a big coaching tree, I'm not even going to attempt to read through all the people that have spent time with you and gone on to be head coaches or assistant coaches in other wonderful organizations. But what I'd like to ask you is when these people ring you for advice, what other types of things? So the most common questions they're asking of you. And what do you tell them?
Bill Snyder 21:38
Well, I, you know, it's, you know, different from one individual to the other. You know, they all ask about different different questions in regards to some about, you know, different off the field programs that you that we have had, and they would like to know about, you know, those programs, our community service programs are in school programs, relationships, you know, with entities within the community, the university and faculty and etc, things that we have always made very prominent our program that coaches have heard about and will ask about, some of it is questions about schematically about offenses or defenses or special teams. Some of it is about developing individuals from a variety of different standpoints. Most common question is, you know, how to develop them as, as athletes. So I mean, it borders on, you know, numerous different topics.
Paul Barnett 23:02
You have a very active community life, it's a thing that that runs through both yours and your, your extended family. You've worked with many organizations, the changing lives campaign was one that I could see online, and there's many other education focused groups. How has participation in these groups really helped you develop as a leader?
Bill Snyder 23:24
Well, I think it has. So many of them have allowed me to understand, you know, what our needs are, whether it happens to be with the university, whether it happens to be with our community, whether it happens to be within our state and several organizations, outside of including but outside also of the state of Kansas. And to understand what their needs are, Deborah and I started what is called Kansas mentors and mentoring initiative to throughout the state of Kansas to try to get mentoring programs and and young people connected and allowed me to come into contact with more and more information about you know, what is going on with our youth society. In any given segment of time. The leadership, we have Kansas Leadership Center, which she and I also helped initiate and to helped us define our helped me, you know, she already knew but it helped me to define what the needs were communities within the state. Kansas, small communities that were losing population, etc. You know, what we could do in terms of leadership to, you know, assist statewide communities. The Kansas School Leadership Studies, they initiated a Yeah. Which I helped many, many years ago, they wrote a book about it, which are about leadership lessons from Bill Snyder, which became the textbook for leadership classes at Kansas State, and we're going to head to classes. And it became important to me to help others who were also who also had the same interest to initiate a broad based program in leadership at Kansas State, which we did. And leadership, program Leadership School, here now houses, more students than any other major field of study, which is significant, I think, in terms of the student acceptance of studying leadership. Anyway, it goes on and on, and on just a number of different things like that.
Paul Barnett 26:27
Thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, leadership has become such an important topic, particularly in the last days, with what we're seeing in some parts of the world, particularly in America. And I think, you know, we're turning towards a broader cross section of society looking for leadership. And I think, potentially, a lot of times that does come from Sports coaches, who have such a profound influence on the development of young people within their, their teams. So I can definitely resonate resonates with you, when you talk about starting leadership development, it must be something that you're very proud of. But I'd like to come back to 1998, if we could, because that was the year where you went undefeated, and you become the number one ranked team. And then a few years later, in 2003, you win the big 12. And you break the 69 year old gap between conference titles for Kansas State. You've talked in this call about learning and developing as a coach. What was different with your style in 2003? This is the type of leader you were in 1989.
Bill Snyder 27:47
I, I wasn't, at least to my knowledge, I didn't change anything that that I was doing. You know, we were improved. Excuse me football program, because, you know, we had we got better and better players each year. We've got players that bought in more significantly, year in and year out a variety of different things that that help improve our programs were existing, but but I I doubt very seriously that that I changed a great deal. I think I was pretty much the same individual.
Paul Barnett 28:33
Well, consistency, I guess, is one of the things that you also talked about in great coaches. So I'm not surprised that you answered the question that way. But I did think I'd asked anyway. Coach Snyder, the schemes you implemented at Kansas State weren't overly complicated, but they seemed instead to be predicated on players knowing their role and fulfilling it. What are the critical elements of creating a culture where players are more focused on the team and their role? And not primarily themselves?
Bill Snyder 29:06
Well, you know, it gets harder and harder, probably every year would be would be my guess. But I think, you know, there's a variety of different things, I think you would dress it and a very consistent basis, day in and day out. I think creating team activities outside of football becomes significant. A lot of coaches are doing that. In this day and age, where they can have a community effort and achieving goals outside of football becomes significant. Thank you, you know, to do things like oh, you know, to help the community well being [PB7] To go into schools and present programs to other, you know, two elementary schools and junior high and high school, as a, as a team, to be able to compete against each other, and the pride of different activities outside of football, that, you know, allow you to be competitive like you would, in practice with an offense against the defense and yet gain respect for what the other individual is doing. I think creating a program in which there is a, for lack of a better word of Big Brother, when you enter the program, someone that can that's older that's been in the program that can help you realize, you know, the value of togetherness, and value of all the while just all the intrinsic values that we try to address in our program and the necessity for it to be, you know, team related and the consequence of team effort. So that, you know, it's a it's something that everyone is invested in, you know, I think, you know, just the normal value system that, you know, you would teach your children are things that that are players that we spent a great deal of time on, and had our players spend time talking with each other, you know about it, we had a unity sharing program, that every day, you know, after practice, or after meetings, whatever they would pair off, you know, if there were 130 players in our program, then there'd be 65 pairs of two, and they'd have a topic and they would discuss it and then with each other in some of the more difficult topics, topics that were about their own personal lives and things that they wouldn't share with someone that they didn't really trust. And we would rotate that group, so every individually eventually got to visit with every other individual on the team. And that helped draw them closer to gather. [PB8] You know, as I said, we promoted you know, a value system and we had a program for each of the values you know, such as, you know, commitment and unselfishness and responsibility and consistency and leadership and no self limitations and not giving up and enthusiasm and effort, self discipline and toughness, and that concept of daily improvement everyday, all those things were more than just words to us, you know, not just something that you can put up on locker mall, and expect players to all of a sudden adapt that. We Those are things we each have those values, we have a program in place in order to enhance those and teach those to young people in our program. Many of the things that we did, yes.
Paul Barnett 34:03
It's a wonderful way of bringing those values to life. Thank you for, for sharing that story. And I'd actually love to ask you a little bit more about the wall tech goals. But before we get there, I'd like to talk about family because that's a really important value for you as well. And your family has been an integral part of your coaching success your son was on your staff, which as a father myself, I can only imagine how satisfying that must have been for you. And of course, there's a stadium named after your family as well. How have you managed to find this balance between work family leadership community in your life and what advice can you give to all of us on trying to find that balance?
Bill Snyder 34:49
Well, it's, you know, I'm a big scheduler, you know, I have all the charts and diaries, etc, etc. But I scheduled my De, and doesn't mean that I can always adhere to it. But I tried diligently to do that. And within that scheduling I, I set, you know, certain times to call, you know, each of my children or see each of my children, whatever the case may be, and grandchildren as well, why, and I and I tried diligently to make those contacts. I have probably for the last 25 years or so, I've made an attempt virtually. There are exceptions, but virtually every single day, a lot to contact, you know, each and every one of those family members. Most of the time, it's by telephone, sometimes it's in person, sometimes it's very seldom, but sometimes it has to be texting or emailing. But more often than not it by telephone call. And it's just a matter of making it part of what I do every day. And it's part of the part of the schedule that hasn't, hasn't changed. They are significant, as you indicated, my, my son, we have two boys, both of them played here at Kansas State, Sean was an all American banner and went into coaching and worked with me for many, many years. did so much in our program, he was special teams coordinator is Associate head coach, he was director of opera of operations, he held all those titles at one time. So he did more than I did related within. Within the program. He's presently the special teams coordinator at the University of Southern California, have a daughter, all five of our children went to Kansas State. We have one grandchild that's gone through another one that is in school at Kansas State. And all the rest have indicated they want to go to Kansas State when they are college age. We
Paul Barnett 37:36
must be so satisfying for you, congratulations, it must be it must be wonderful to see everybody coming in experiencing something that's been just such a big part of your life.
Bill Snyder 37:49
Well, you know, they, for instance, our youngest daughter, Whitney was a an equestrian riders who rode horses all of her life. And she was on the equestrian team at Kansas State University and was an all American equestrian rider. So we had to actually had to have over five children were all Americans that had Kansas State. So you know, it wasn't just the joy of having them here. It was the joy of seeing and have success. They said our other son Ross played for us on the football program. The the other two children were both daughters, Shannon and Meredith and both the you know, came from Texas to you know, go to school at Kansas State and were highly successful getting their degrees and involved in many other things. My middle daughter Meredith was involved in automobile accidents when she was in high school and left her paralyzed in which she is thought through diligently and she can move with the aid of a helping hand and walk with the aid of a cane or a helping hand now, but you know, she became such a, an amazing individual. After her accident, when she gained some recovery, she became owner and operator of three separate businesses, owns property of 80 or so acres that they work and she has raised three, three young children. She's He's probably committed and strong and as disciplined as anybody that, that I've ever coached or have in our family, but pretty, pretty special.
Paul Barnett 40:19
I think it's wonderful when a, and our children can teach us something, too. And it sounds like that's what's happened there.
Bill Snyder 40:27
They all have Yes.
Paul Barnett 40:30
Just you've been very generous with your time. And so I'd just like to ask you a couple more questions if I could. And I'd like to talk about the Wildcat goals, because you, you came back to coach at Kansas State, and you put together this this great list 16 Wildcat goals for success. And as you said, they're really applicable to anyone anyway. And when I was reading through the list of the one that resonated with me, giving my situation as a middle aged father, 47, I've got two girls trying to juggle work and trying to be a good friend. And you talk about responsibility, and the idea of people being responsible for their own performance. And I guess, also the performance of those around them. And I wanted to ask you, why responsibility is so important for you? And were the focus on it? Well,
Bill Snyder 41:31
I think we all you and I both have realized that so many occasions, you know, we we meet people who do not accept the responsibility for certain failures. And, you know, when all of us know that it does, does exist, and by not accepting responsibility for things that you are responsible for. You know, it's just, it's a detriment to our society, because it not only harms you, but it is conceivably harms many others, because of something that you failed to do that was really a for lack of a better word, a responsibility of yours. [PB9] So it's, you know, you talk about perfect, most recent example, was the fiasco at state or at the US Capitol. I can't speak to everybody there. But there were an awful lot of irresponsible people that were involved in that. And consequently, there was great harm to others, you know, particularly fives that were there were shot or poor that lost their lives, whatever those numbers were things that, you know, that we don't, we don't see, because most people are not, you know, if they knew the consequences of irresponsibility in many occasions, they would not do you know, what they were doing, but they, they just don't see the, they're gonna, they're going to act and then defer the responsibility. And I think that happens way too much. It's an easy thing to do. Should be a hard thing to live with.
Paul Barnett 43:41
Touch nada, you've had such a wonderful and long career. As a coach, you're still very active as a leader. A big sphere of influence. And so I wanted to finish by asking you about legacy. And I know it's a potentially a difficult topic. But if we were to ask the many, many men and women who have worked with you over the years, what would they say? You think is the legacy that you've left as a coach?
Bill Snyder 44:19
Well, I can only go by, you know what? young people that have been in our program have shared with me. I, I probably have. But first of all, I'm a hoarder. I save everything that I have. So in all my years of coaching, everything that that came across my desk I have, and I count countless boxes full of letters and cards and emails, etc. From young people that have been in Our program, and even though they express it in a variety of different ways, the the essence or the theme that runs through each and every one of them is the that they are enjoying successes, varying degrees, of course in their lives. And they have done so because of the values that were taught to them in our football program at Kansas State University, and they express, you know, the many cases of values that they learned and how important they have been, and the meaning that they've had in their lives. And that's the most significant thing that I think as a leader, or coach, you know, can possibly do. And so I'm comfortable that that's that's the legacy.[PB10]
Paul Barnett 46:20
Catch nada. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been a real honor and a real privilege to spend some time with you and listen to your thoughts. Still so relevant today, after such a long and illustrious career. Thank you very much for your time.
Bill Snyder 46:37
Well, You're quite welcome. And thank you all for, for having an interest in in the right things, so to speak. And I appreciate that joy vision with you. Wish you wish you all well stay safe.
Paul Barnett 46:54
Thanks. Catch nada. Take care. You bet. Bye. Bye now.
Jim Woolfrey 46:58
Thank you so much.
Bill Snyder 47:03
Wow,
47:04
wow.
Paul Barnett 47:06
Wow. Mike, are you there?
47:10
Yeah, I'm here.
Paul Barnett 47:11
How do I go? It's, I was a little intimidated.
Jim Woolfrey 47:16
Right?
Bill Snyder 47:16
Oh, you know, it was he is he used the word he hadn't changed much between 2003 and 1989. I can just tell you as as one of his super fans. And as a guy who watched him, you know, turn around, he developed and executed the plan that turned around the football program. One of the stories you could have referenced Paul was a was a sports illustrated story that ran years ago, that talked about how Kansas State would have to win like all their games for the like, next two decades to eat to get off the bottom. You know, like they were the laughingstock of football. And when I was a student there, which I was a student right before he came. We we used it we in fact, I still have the football block. I'm not a hoarder, I don't think but I still have my football season ticket. It was like six bucks, and you went to every game. And it was because we just had to have students just to fill the stadium. I mean, it was that bad. And, you know, and what he did in that time he was there was to, you know, nobody knew bill Snyder was when he came in, but you know, he kept he kept talking differently been different than Vince Gibson's and, and the coach, Jim, I forget his name, it was before him. And, you know, he just talked differently. And then all of a sudden, he got a following, you know, and the power cat came, as you alluded to, and, and they were mentioned and, and then he, you know, then he got the players involved, and the players cared. And the players started acting differently. And they weren't in Aggie Ville, you know, they were there, but they just, you know, they were, they were putting the time in, and they were recognizing that everything mattered and you know, and then all of a sudden, we just began to see winning and it was it was really quite a change. And then the fans got behind it and the you know, the veneer Stadium, which the veneer family, which really underwrote a lot of money that went into the university. I think, when they, when they put Bill's name on it, it was Bill who insisted that his family you know, get the get the name of the stadium. And what happened, of course, right at the time, he retired the first time and before he came back, you know, to coach again. So, you know, I happen to be a great fan. He is I there were there were two things I was tempted to mention to you. And Jim, I don't know if he ever knew this about me when we work together. But there's one leadership trait that he has that I've emulated for years since I've known this about Bill, and that is that after a major game, he If a If another player does Really well, or another player gets hurt, he will hand write a note to that individual.
Jim Woolfrey 50:08
If you can see what I've written down here, Mike, I've written we need to hand write a written thank you to build for his time today. That's exactly what I've written on my notes. Here, he even writes it. And by the
Bill Snyder 50:20
way, that's how I got his attention for this for this whole thing to happen. I did the same thing. And I'm going to do the same thing too. Now I happen to go to Manhattan where he lives. And in fact, he doesn't know this, but my mother lives right around the corner from him. And I've got to go back there and deal with my mom on some stuff related or health. And, you know, it's it's kind of interesting driving past his house, because I do know where he lives. But the, you know, he he, he hand writes a note and the number of people that I know, he talks about being a hoarder and keeping everything, you'd be amazed how many people have kept his handwritten notes. And just fast forward to today, and I'll tell you a small story because Jim knows I, in fact, Jim and I met in South Africa, Paul, and I ran the Coca Cola, commercial business there for a while. And when I left, I hand wrote letters to my team. And when I go down there, the last time I was there, and had drinks with one of them, one of them brought out the letter I wrote, and I, you know, looked at it and said, Yep, I wrote that letter. And he said, I've kept this for 20 years. He said, it's mental. It's meant the world to me. And it's funny, and oh, yeah,
51:31
we did this over Christmas time, didn't we? Paul? We Yeah, Mike, we, we, it's the second.
Paul Barnett 51:39
It's the second coach that's talked about another famous famous Australian coach, she talked about, and then just at Christmas time, I pings Jim. And I said, Don't forget, handwritten notes. But what she always also said was that expressing gratitude is a key way of building resilience. Yeah, that's really, really nice. So yeah, yeah, it was it was really good time. You know, it seems to be a bit of a theme. I mean, Jim, and I don't know what Jim has told you. But we've sort of been trawling through the transcripts, trying to distill some lessons, and we're very happy to share with with you if you have any interest, but we we've sort of got this list of 50 together and initially and with, it's really fascinating, because it challenges you to think a little bit differently. I mean, he talked about values at the end there. Yeah. But you know, we've also heard that behaviors are more important than values, because behaviors are what you say. Yeah, you know, it's either of them. So it's just the fact that we're talking about them, I think, is a really good thing.
Bill Snyder 52:48
Well, the other thing, you know, about it, my the handwritten note is something I personally, you know, have emulated and the one thing that, that I think I mentioned this to Jim one time, sort of tongue in cheek, you know, he wanted everybody to be prepared and including the sideline reporters. And, you know, I always found it fun. When I'd watch a Kansas State game on television. You know, most people it gets near halftime, you know, you jump up, go to the bathroom, you know, whatever. I would wait, because I wanted to see who was going to take this was a dare gotta go interview. Yeah, because, because if you weren't prepared, he kind of let you know it in his own way. But if you were prepared, he gave you the nuggets, you know, and, and it was funny, because the you could tell the guys up in the booth. were like, Oh, I'm glad I'm not doing this today. You know,
Jim Woolfrey 53:39
the rookie,
Bill Snyder 53:42
rookie. Because if you weren't ready, Bill would bill would kind of, you know, make you know it and
Jim Woolfrey 53:49
they don't know where the lifted screwdriver.
Bill Snyder 53:52
You know, this, this guy, you know, he he really, he rewarded you for being prepared. I always thought and that I saw that kind of early on. It was it was almost hysterical. And he and Popovich and Bella check. There was a couple others not many that fit that in an era where coaches were also glad to be on television. These guys were like, you know, no, they had a game to run they had they had a team to prepare for the second half, you know, and the third quarter or whatever it might have been. And, you know, they they were they were just different about that they were about the team and making sure the team was, you know, set and ready to go. So, you know, just back to answer your question, Paul, when Jim first talked to me about this, I was all in on it then. And I said I wanted to help and help you guys out and you know, I haven't landed Popovich yet, but I'm working on it. And I'm working on
Paul Barnett 54:49
that. Thank you so much. We, we appreciate it. I was coming on my look, I'm sure Jim told you was a little COVID project that that sort of as a bit of a
Jim Woolfrey 55:00
We say, six. What if Actually, we said, What
Paul Barnett 55:03
if we could get 16 inches to talk to us? It was about, you know, balancing off the tick tock effect that the kids were getting, you know, yeah, focus on se. But um, it's grown quite exponentially. And as I researched, look into Popovich, I see that he doesn't do any media. So Jim said, you were working on it. I thought, Oh, my God, that'd be pretty intimidating. Give it a shot, before we get there.
Bill Snyder 55:27
But I'll beat these guys all have things that target their hearts. Right. You know, and, and I also know if I want to get to Bella, check, I know how I have to get to them. But that's going to be a little harder to do. You just like I think Papa will be too and Popovich lost his wife, you know, not long ago to cancer. So that's been kind of consuming him. But, you know, nevertheless, they're, you know, and Jim said something to me, we've had a chance to catch up the other day that which I thought was really insightful of you guys is that, you know, great coaches, you know, are not just in sports, they're kind of in other things, you know, cheerleading and other areas. And, and I think you guys are onto something really big here. And, you know, in an era where, you know, I came out of school went to work for Procter and Gamble, this was back when management, leadership training, you know, was there companies don't have that today, you know, and so they look for things like this, where you can go out and kind of on your own time, I see different ideas from people you really respect. And if you guys have a catalogue of people, you know, that they know and like, and I think a lot of, I think that that would be, I think that's, you know, a great, great resource, you know, for, for preacher leaders to have. So I would tell you that anyway, I can help you guys, I would do it in a heartbeat. I'd love to see your 50 themes, or whatever the number is. And just consider me more than a passionate advocate for you. I really hope you guys, you know, get to do whatever you'd like to do with this project. And, you know, I think, my I'm biased, of course, but I think Bill gave you, you know, a very unvarnished and truthful and, you know, authentic way he looks at things. And, you know, he's revered in the community here, but I think he's revered, you know, not just among future former players. And, you know, they, they refer back to them a lot. And, you know, we run into them in the airport, or I've seen them on airplanes once in a while. And, you know, you mentioned you're from Kansas State, and they are too and, you know, they talk about coach Snyder, you know, it's it's only with, you know, with, with love and in their heart and my nephew, who was actually recruited by Bill, he wasn't recruited very hard, because he wasn't very good. But he was recruited. You know, he was an all state. He was the Allstate wrestler from liberal Kansas. He was two time champion. And he was recruited to go play at Kansas State. In the end, he ended up picking wrestling over over football at Oklahoma, where he got a full scholarship. But yeah, he he enjoyed, you know, his chance to talk with Bill and the staff there now.
Paul Barnett 58:14
Because I am chasing COACH RYAN. And I think he's out or maybe he's Ohio. He's the wrestling coach there. He's quite decorated. And we've been going back and forth a little bit on LinkedIn,
Bill Snyder 58:26
to Oklahoma,
Paul Barnett 58:27
Tom Ryan, I'm just having a look.
Bill Snyder 58:30
I don't know that name. But, okay.
Paul Barnett 58:32
He's very, very articulate. Now, I think, look, Mike, it's so it's the passion you have for these fantastic. I mean, yes, thanks to find a way. Because we definitely are very much into this being a, you know,
Bill Snyder 58:49
Jim knows how to find me. I mean, I've been you know, Jim and I, we met under difficult circumstances, but we've made I think, what came out of it was something bigger than, than the situation we were in and, and, you know, I do anything for the guy. And I really, more than that, I just really like this. This, this theme you guys have I think a lot of it. And that's why I put the time in, you know, was easy for me to, you know, set it up with Tim and it seems like it's easier than has been for you guys to get the interview with him. But I know Tim's supportive of it. But, you know,
Paul Barnett 59:27
I think you thank you so much. Maybe we worked through the questions for Tim and I think any feedback you've got is more than appreciated. So please, you've been to South Africa. So you know how South Africans are direct. And Australia. Pretty simple as that, please.
Bill Snyder 59:41
Yeah.
Paul Barnett 59:42
Give it to us whenever you can. I mean, I just on American football coaches, that when I listen to them, they remind me of generals. I feel like this this emotionless. Sense Movil? Yeah, and there's like an army sending people into battle. And I find it fascinating to be honest, basketball coaches seem to be more animated. And there's emotion and the games moving. And I don't know, there's something about football coaches, very stoic
Jim Woolfrey 1:00:12
about the numbers, is it about the numbers though, you know, Bill talked about this program of 130. Basketball, the squads are a little tighter, there's a little bit more intimacy. But with football, you've got essentially two, maybe three teams because you've got the offense, defense, and then the coaching staff. And they are assigned to that. So you might even have up to five or six teams within this sports team. And maybe it's that it's maybe it's this removal away that that creates this visionary effect in football. Whereas in a more intimate sport, they're a little bit closer to the individual player, they're a little bit closer to this moment. And I think Bill's one of those guys that's moved from this visionary and creating this pathway to being a little bit more connected to the player at a deeper level than maybe some of those that do feel a little bit more militaristic. And also, they've come from the environment, people have come out of that. Then when Bill was a youngster, you know, we were still neck deep in the Second World War, the Korean War, the Vietnam War. And so, you know, we've had coaches talk about that too, to us. You know, sometimes the lessons in leadership in in some of these older coaches, and these older ways of working have come from military backgrounds. You know, she was a military brat.
Bill Snyder 1:01:25
Coach nights that way, and coaches chef ski, you know, the Duke basketball coach, very successful, you know, talks about that. Yeah, he, he's, you know, the difference for a lot of these guys, is that they grew up at a time when it was kind of expected you were going to play for years. You know, and that's the thing I think, with Coach Snyder, too, you know, it's, I think it's still kind of expected that the end and it's kind of understood that when you go to K state, you're probably going to play for years or two years, if you come in as a junior college transfer. You know, you got other guys that come in today. And I'll just use Calipari, you know, for Kentucky, you know, it's kind of a one year and you're out, and he recruits him that way. And one of my, you know, one of the guys in my business circle, you know, his grandson was recruited by Calipari and he said he made the recruiting trip, his mother and, and father and he made the trip. And, you know, they asked the question, they said, Okay, well tell us about how, you know, you set us up for study time for, you know, for to get our grades, and Calipari looked, looked him right in the eye and said, you know, you'll go to class before the season starts, but after the season starts early, you're here to I'm here to get you to the next level, you know, you'll get there in one year, you know, in which, which the difference was very clear, you're not going to get a degree here, don't even think about it. You know, and that was a complete turnoff to the parents, you know, who expected you know, their their son to get a degree and he ultimately chose against Kentucky, you know, as a place to go to school. So, you know, there's just this kind of one and done thing. And, you know, that would have been that was another question when I was looking at the list that you guys provided. And I thought, you know, I thought better of it, because you guys had it. You guys had a ton of great questions. But it's kind of the whole you know, how much is the one and done effect, you know, on and this is something maybe you guys are better have a better lens on this than I do. But is that really only relevant in America, you know, predicted at the university level, where we have this one and done attitude because it's really happening in football and basketball. You know, Alabama won the national championship last night. You know, there's a number of those players that aren't going to be there next year. they'll move on. And doesn't do just wonder how much that affects the team and how that how, you know,
1:03:56
the emotional
1:03:57
the
Paul Barnett 1:04:00
the the emotional problems, I think and when we interviewed coach p the she coached at Duke, the ladies Team metalia
1:04:08
Mikado and McCallum McCauley you recall, he
Paul Barnett 1:04:11
talked a lot about mental health. And I think this is the topic at the minute, isn't it? This the mental pressure that you're putting athletes under and affects their performance and the one and done I'm not sure, you know, you almost need a, an exit plan for these people. So I think it's probably okay to raise that pressure. But you've made an exit plan for them and I think you could dump them otherwise, you're just creating a heightened sense of awareness that people aren't gonna be able to live up to.
Bill Snyder 1:04:39
It's almost like if you're gonna play it, you know, Duke or Kentucky, you get to be a junior senior. You're riding the pine baby. You're not going to get the chance because you're going to get the you know, the, the top of the top, the McDonald's all all Americans are going to come there and that's kind of how they they recruit it. So, you know, for me, I love seeing, you know, when people like my alma mater, Kansas State, and others come in and kick their ass, you know, I love it. It was really funny in the NCAA, not this past season, but the season before, in Kansas State beat Kentucky. And, you know, nobody saw that coming, you know, it's like, these misfits, you know, from Kansas State come in and be, you know, this, these, this group of, you know, top, top 2030 players in the country and beat them, you know, in the, in the March Madness, you know, love it, you know, dog story, you know, and there's, you see him every now and then come out like that, but I keep wondering, you know, how the, how that impact is on on the coaches and, and, you know, that's, you know, it was a, it like said, I had a few questions on kind of a draft. And then, you know, I looked at what you had, and I thought you guys had better questions. I did think the family thing was really important to, to pick up because that's something for business. People, you know, to, to address and deal with, too. So, anyway, now, I love that's a long, long answer your question, Paul, I love what you're doing. I wish you guys nothing but success. Anyway, I can help you. I will. And all you have to do is ask and I'll keep trying to find, you know, people I know that we can get a hold of it can be additive to what you're you're doing and I think I think you'll find Tim will be a different resource. But he'll he'll he'll because he you know, he took a program that was you know, Larry, Larry Brown put on, you know, put on probation, basically. And he's brought it back. Yeah.
Paul Barnett 1:06:45
I mean, yeah, you'll see the questions when Jim sends him I didn't go didn't ask anything about coach Brown. I didn't. just reading between the lines. I don't think he did the right thing. Right. There was some kind of issue with payments, and I didn't want to go
Bill Snyder 1:07:01
No, there was Yeah, I know the story. And Tim and I sat in his office there at SMU and talked about it less than two years ago. And you know, what, since college, I went to college together. Yeah. Yeah, we went to college together. And yeah, after the interview is over, I'll tell you the rest of the story. There's there's there's another piece to that story.
Paul Barnett 1:07:35
To chatting with you after
Bill Snyder 1:07:36
anything, and it's good. I just can't tell you now.
Paul Barnett 1:07:40
Oh, hang on, and I will look for my wife is calling me. I better go make a cup of tea.
Bill Snyder 1:07:45
Well, you guys. You guys are both at dinnertime. Thanks for thanks for fitness and I'm really sorry about what happened the other day.
1:07:51
I really.
1:07:54
Thank you. It's a pleasure. Yes.
Bill Snyder 1:07:57
No, I wanted to get that fixed right away. So I'm glad to live we get that done. So it's all right. All the best guy doing this. I look forward to getting those scripts by the way when they're done.
1:08:12
Okay. Cheers.