210511 Thomas Frank master
Sat, 5/15 6:02PM • 46:46
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, players, terms, play, game, thomas, bit, club, team, big, togetherness, speak, brentford, person, coaching, head coach, main pillars, specific, people, good
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Thomas Frank
Thomas Frank 00:00
In the house, so hopefully he's not disturbing too much and also one bit of luxuries as a cleaning lady, but he he should be upstairs. I think we have an hour of quietness. If not then I guess with all the technology in the world, you can cut, I mean an hour or something like that.
Paul Barnett 00:17
We actually you know what, in a world where everything is polished and perfect. When a dog comes in, or a child calls out, it's actually pretty,
00:26
like good.
Thomas Frank 00:28
Perfect, perfect. No problem.
Paul Barnett 00:32
So if you're if you're ready, Thomas, I'll begin. Oh, good. Thank you, Thomas. Frank. Good morning, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Thomas Frank 00:40
Morning. Thank you very much.
Paul Barnett 00:42
We're very excited to talk to you today because Brentford, is about to play off to get into the Premier League. So thank you for finding a little bit of time for us.
Thomas Frank 00:51
Yeah, no worries. It's a it's one of these bits that I'm very interested in. And hopefully you can can give a bit back.
Paul Barnett 00:59
We hope so too. And perhaps but before we start the interview, if I could start with a really deep and complex question, Where are you in the world today? And what have you been up to so far?
Thomas Frank 01:10
I'm in London, and of course, in the east, not, of course, but in East chain. And I've been out running in the morning, and then a bit of work before this beautiful podcast.
Paul Barnett 01:24
Fantastic. Okay. Well, Thomas, I'd like to start actually, by winding the clock back a little bit, because you've had a great apprenticeship yourself as a coach, but along the way, you actually worked with some pretty good coaches. Richard Nielsen, Michael Laudrup, I think I got the name right. And Dean Smith, was just a few that I could uncover online. So I like to start by asking, What is it you think the great coaches do differently, that sets them apart from everybody else?
Thomas Frank 01:54
I think it's a very variety of things. I think they need to have a clear philosophy, they believe in, let's say, that could be a life philosophy, but also as football coaches that's very much and normally linked with them with a style of play, then they have a big belief in what they what they do, and then what they like to accomplish. And then they also, I would say, half that a lot of I think the greatest coaches have a really good relations with, with people.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 02:40
talk to you a little bit about relationships in philosophy later on, if I can. But yeah, I'd like to drill in a little bit because, you know, you talked about belief, a minute ago, and variety. And when I was researching you for today's interview, I found this great quote from you. And when you were reflecting on the team success at Brentford, you said, Our success is down to different things. The character and values are key above anything else. And so I wanted to ask you, what are your core values as a coach?
Thomas Frank 03:13
I think, you know, that's also reflects a little bit on the first question, I think when you see a team play, I think a lot of the time, it's the it's a good picture of how, what a person what, what kind of values the coach has,[PB2] in many, many, many ways, I think, you know, just to take the very well known coaches like Jurgen Klopp I think he's one specific person. And that's why his team play maybe a little bit more, as he call it, you know, the heavy metal style of rock and roll and Guardiola is another style. I know, those are the two big, big names and figures out there. But I think it's it comes down to the same with any other coaching including me. I would say some of my we work with four main pillars, or I work with four main pillars in them in Brentford. And all four of them, of course, are linked together with I would say, some of my main values in terms of respect, honesty, and I believe also very much in integrity. I think that's that's, that's who I am as a person. But I tried to make it a little bit more visual but also a little bit more live for the players so they so they know what it is we were working with. So I'm speaking always about four pillars and one of them are hard work. I think we all know in these great performances and these top teams or top athletes, none of them have achieved anything without hard work. So it's a big Sixth pillar, but sometimes players or coaches don't know what hard work is, yeah, I think that's very, I'm gonna say different opinion of how much is hard work. But hard work is a big thing. Second thing is performance. And I would say that everything you do every single day is about equal performance. So we put performance out and training, linked with the hard work, they put a good performance in into the, into the game, everything is linked on that. And then under the performance, you can focus on different aspects of the style of play, we've always very much of the builder play or the high pricing, but it's everything about putting a good performance out there, then I think it's crucial that we talk about attitude. And attitude is for me, is that you are confident, I don't think you can achieve anything, as an athlete coach, anything a football player, without being confident, but you need to be humble. So I love that you are very much confident in your own abilities and your own strength. But also, you need to be humble, because the big world out there, and there's a lot of task ahead or struggles that you need to overcome. And the final bit is like is togetherness, you can't achieve anything alone. I think if you want to achieve anything quick, you can go alone. What do you want to achieve anything big, you need to go together. And I always value my players performance in terms of what they they give themselves, but also how much they give to their teammates or the team? And is that overall performance that that, you know, that is the one I rate?[PB3] Hi, Thomas, there's
Paul Barnett 06:51
another great quote from you. And I've actually stolen it to use when I describe my own value around accountability, and you say, I teach my children to take their client to the kitchen. And I wanted to ask you, how does this same transcend into your request or for Team standards?
Thomas Frank 07:14
I think it's, it's very much linked with the other, you know, pillows in terms of togetherness or hard work. And also that attitude where you are competent, but you're you're, you're humble. And so a good example, for example, is that after we come home from an away match, it's very, very important for me that, you know, I take it back going off the coach, because yeah, I know that I'm the head coach, but you know, I think we're all in it together. The kitman Of course, normally, because he's a big part of that, and the physios and all that. And because we do it that way, and leading by example, the players, that means my captain, the top scorer, all of them, they are taking it back, I always notice of course, I'm not standing there over watching them. But I'm noticing if anyone, you know shooting off early only taking one thing, it's just you know, in the back of my mind to to make sure if they are a team player. And so I think that's a fantastic example of and you don't create that overnight, because sometimes you need to remind some players, you know what, your teammates, they actually watch you leave early, instead of just taking it back. And so I think that's that's a that's an example in terms that could be linked with that. Taking the the plate to the kitchen. And I think there's so many comparisons you can do in terms of how you raise your children in terms of how you create a co successive team. [PB4] And speaking about my dog and how to you need to get out in the in the garden has been suppressing the door for two minutes. Yes, I'm back.
Paul Barnett 09:07
Thanks, Thomas. I wanted to talk about your apprenticeship actually, you coached youth teams for 18 years, as well as getting a diploma in sports psychology. And I wanted to ask you, what did you learn most about yourself as a coach through this apprenticeship that prepared you for the elite senior team you're
Thomas Frank 09:25
now leading? I think for me, it's been crucial that you know, I definitely definitely got my 10,000 hours of coaching on the pitch with everything from on the eight and all the way up. There's not a year group. I haven't coach throughout my career from Monday to under it and then of course seniors as well afterwards. So I think that's been that's been a Part of, of learning and trying every single different bits. And, and then you know, because I think if you want to be a great a great coach and I know some players, some coaches have been players and I think that's an advantage in some ways because they've been there on the on the pitch, they tried it themselves, they, they but you know, in terms of standing on the other side in terms of mega drill work 100%, you know, make a new one, adjusting, and speaking to all kinds of different people, children, that's definitely shaped the way I am today.[PB5]
Paul Barnett 10:44
When you stepped into your first senior coaching position of bromby, in 2013, you were very able to quickly to turn them around, and they got to a fourth place finish in the 2003 14 season. And you also took them to you Europa League qualifying spot. And I wanted to ask you, what were the first things you did when you got into that team, which energized them to deliver this result.
Thomas Frank 11:09
I think first and foremost when I believe in, in, in planning, of course. So and also with my background. So of course, I had a had a clear idea of how I wanted to play, but also had a clear idea of where I assessed when where primary was at that state. And so we need to take it bit by bit[PB6] . So So in terms of the style of play in terms of I wanted to be more dominating on the ball, and try to press as aggressive as possible. But I knew in the beginning, that we need to focus more on the defensive side of the game with Brian Perry to make that foundation first and then could build from there. And I and I have caught several meetings, but especially in the beginning to explain the plan, this is how we do it, this is how we're going to train it. This is how I'm going to coach you guys. And and I did that from the beginning. And then of course, a lot of individual talks, especially with the more experienced players to get them on board straightaway. And build that relationship. Because the thing it's all about relationship. And I think that's one of my Yeah, I would say strength in terms of connecting with people.[PB7] And get them on board and explain them, try to seduce them. In terms of the way I wanted to do things, I think that it's about doing that as well. And then be consistent because I actually actually tested the the board and the chairman very, very hard. Because I decided not to win my first eight matches, you know, as a young coach going forward, so just wanted to see if they actually literally wanted to back me or not. And also okay, tough, but I believe that what we what we did, then I'll try to evaluate the performance every single time. And then page by page. So we didn't win. We didn't lose all of the matches. But we lost, we didn't win the first seven league games and went out of the cup as well. And after that, we went in the nine games unbeaten run. So that just shows I think that your work structured with a big focus every single day with a clear plan. Because if you do that, then I will try and resolve.
Paul Barnett 13:35
I wanted to stay with brondby if I can for a minute because what I find quite fascinating is you left after being criticized by the club Chairman who used the pseudonym online to criticize you. And so I wanted to ask you, when you talk to your own players now and staff about voicing criticism, based on your experience, what do you tell them?
Thomas Frank 13:59
I think I think football is definitely and a sport where there's a lot of focus a lot of criticism and especially with the shows on social media these days. And you know, everything you're doing is judged. And I think that can be hard to to handle as a young person, you know, even if they are 30 years old and inexperienced player, they are still a young person. I think sometimes we forget that. The young alive I definitely am a different person compared to when I was 30 where of course I thought I was the king of the world and I could everything but I must I must admit, you know, 17 years, further down the line that I'm you know, just learn so much more and I'm a completely different coach and hopefully a better one. But a I would say in terms of in terms of criticism, I mean, of course I'm if they had a lot of criticism I speak to them about if they actually are watching a lot of on social media or they try to, to close down that down the account and follow for a period and try to pack them as much as I can, and the need to listen to themselves, that the key persons around them not too many. And of course, hopefully their culture. That's the criticism they need to take in. Because I'm always I will also be criticizing them if they're not up to standard. But I really believe a lot in appreciative inquiry, that way of teaching that I think the more positive you can be, the better, of course, honest, it's been not good, because they're very normally players have very harsh, harsh on themselves.[PB8]
.
Paul Barnett 16:00
And how do you gather feedback, and potentially criticism from the players and coaching staff, for yourself?
Thomas Frank 16:08
If I get criticism from the from the coaches or the players? Yeah. I would say on always listen, I think I'm very open minded person. I listen to a lot of people. And from all that information, I tried to take the best possible decision. So your
Paul Barnett 16:27
journey from bromby eventually leads to brain food, you start off with the youth teams, and then you you move into the senior team. And just after you took the job, you say, you need to have demands, consequence and love, just like raising your children and love caught my eye because it's not something that my head coach in an elite sport normally talks about. Can you tell me why love is so important to you as a coach?
Thomas Frank 17:01
I think, of course, love is a big word. And I love to your children or you or your partner is different compared to love to your friends or, or your players or your colleagues. Because we all know that the need to be a lot of demands, and there needs to be some consequence. But I really, really believe you need to build that relationship with with trust, or love, or what would you call it, you need to I think it's so important that you need to show him you care about them, every single one of them. And I think that's the, the most difficult for me as a head coach, that that they, I really hope that that they they feel and they see me as a person that that care about all of them. But I also completely understand the way the football work, in terms of I have 23 players, I'm only starting in level 11 of them. So the rest of them, they don't get as much love or attention. Because that's just the way it is really try to get around all of them. Of course, I speak to all of them every day. But you know that more in depth conversation you can't have that with with, with all of them the whole time, I tried to do it. Because I care of all of them about all of them, I really want all of them to be as good as possible, and achieve big things. But unfortunately, I can only I can only play 11 of them. [PB9] And we need the team to perform. But But in terms of the relationship, the connection, I've tried to to create a close relationship where I speak to them about everything else than football, of course. But of course, it's always you know, around football, the first talk starts in terms of how can we develop their their game or feedback from a game good and bad. But, but I I do do care about them. And I want the best
Paul Barnett 19:08
kind of empathy sounds exhausting? How do you it is your energy as a leader.
Thomas Frank 19:15
That's the big big thing. I actually have a mentor in leadership that I use, or use for the last two years also used different, let's say coaches or when I was in primary because I just think it's important to speak with someone outside the club that see me as not a different person but as purely as a leader and not speaking football. And maybe we should have built up differently or pressed now it's the thing so much about leadership. Because I know that the way the route I took was a non player so I had to as you described before, go for the for the youth and develop my coaching skills and the pitch. And in terms of the details of the game, I think I'm at a decent level, others need to do just that. So I know that's one of my strengths. But the more and more I've been in this world leadership is the, I would say is number one. Of course, we need to have a good level of football knowledge. But But leadership is number one. [PB10] And I get that I have that mentor, I speak to him once a week. And the good thing about having him constantly speaking or adjusting my leadership every week, is that he's so good in terms of keeping me on track with for example, energy, with work when an element is called constructive cynicism, you know, in terms of, you know, all the time suckers, all that, you know, caught it. But also in terms of every other aspect in the daily work. And we're working very hard on those four main pillars, I spoke to you about hard work, togetherness and attitude and performance, tried to really reinforce it every single day of the week in the team, so they know it[PB11] . And then other bits and pieces, but those are the three key areas this moment time. But my energy, it is, you know, I I'm a person that I'm very energetic, and I can go for hours and hours and the you know, I live my life, the way I run a normal run. So I'm not the fastest, I'm not the slowest, but I just maintain a decent tempo, constantly. That's how I work. That's how I do everything. And that's, you know, over time, I will run past people because I just continue. But that's also very exhausting. And I'm more and more aware of that going forward[PB12] . So especially this season, it's been crazy. And the season before was crazy. And we didn't have any holidays, especially the way the championship is build. And we went to the playoffs last year, so that literally didn't have any holiday between seasons. And then we just went into even more crazy season, playing games every third or fourth day. So especially from March Madness, I've been, you know, four o'clock, at least a training ground, I'm in at seven, four locally, I need to leave that to go home, walk the dog and my wife, maybe take a power nap, relax, do something and then I maybe work at bed in the evening if I need to. And then on the match, they might just want before a game team, and we play at home, I leave latest three o'clock. Just simply because I need my energy level high.[PB13]
Paul Barnett 22:53
I think it's a great idea to have these kind of structures in your life. And I think I think everyone needs a mentor that can be a mirror and play back to them what they're hearing about their own behavior. But I'd like to go back to togetherness if I could call it out as one of your values that you focus on with the team. And actually, I'm not a I'm not a soccer nerd, don't dive into the data. But one interesting piece of information I saw was that Brentford, have a real focus on set pieces to keep out of your style, you lead the league, or you're way above the league average in scoring from set pieces. And I imagined the coordination of the group to achieve that it's actually quite symbolic of the type of style that you want to bring into the team. So I wanted to ask you, if there was another person, or coach or even a leader out there who is listening, and they want to try and get more togetherness, more united effort from the team? What's some of the advice you would give them?
Thomas Frank 24:01
And I agree, for example, to pieces is, you know, a good example of where everything needs to be totally coordinated. So that's a good, good example of that. What to think? And good question. I think definitely, that I need to reinforce it every single day, in terms of not every single day, but every single time I have a good, good suggestion. Where we could use the two seconds, just hang on here. I think it's fine in a in a second. should be fine. Yeah. In terms of the sound. Every single time where I think it's important to reinforce togetherness where I can give a clear example that can be you know The backs on the bus that can be that we play for each other. So that could be in a training drill into recovery runs that can be off the pitch, in terms of when I speak to the players, and I can say, make sure that you because I know some of them have, you know that we have a fantastic diversity in our club, we have so many cultures and, and nationalities. So So I speak to a lot of the individuals, but especially the main guys, not only the leaders, but the one I know, okay, he's a little bit top of his group, even that we are very united group. And in terms of Make sure your friend now is you know, a little bit down, make sure he's get get off again, because he's a good player, and we need him or, you know, because of his personal problems with whatever parents. So really try to get around that in every aspect. And then I think the the person I am I'm driving, I'm very aware of them, the whole team, and the whole picture. And I always, I would say, as I said earlier with the togetherness, but also always also my staff members, I want them now of course have the qualification to fill in their specific role, but also the need to think of the bigger picture. So the more person you have to think of the bigger picture, the better you can unite your team and your club. And then for example, when I show pictures when we are celebrating, that must be the best feeling everyone celebrating together. Instead of one player celebrating for himself, the best feeling is also constantly reinforcing those those bits of, of optical image[PB14]
Paul Barnett 26:53
Can I see say, football is 90% suffering and 10% joy? So the pain must be worth the game. What do you like most about being a head coach? Or is as they say is they say in soccer, the manager?
Thomas Frank 27:08
Yeah. I think it's working with people. Definitely working with people. That's my if I wasn't a football head coach or coach, or manager, whatever you call it. And I think it would have been a teacher. either. I think young people, we could be everything. And I think I've worked on that probably still have, you know, coach, a grassroot team or amateur teammate, something like that. It is working with people and creating something unique together, creating something that play in a in a specific way, I see myself in some ways. Football is art, you know, so like to create a specific picture of the way you want to play. And if you hit that specific level, sometimes, that just gives me so much joy. But also in terms of you're creating something where some of the performances on the pitch or training can can make me be high, or that you develop people over time to be actually better, better people and hopefully better players. I think that that's what I enjoy the most.[PB15] That 90% pain and 10% joy it is you know, I think it can you know, in the daily work, it's 100% 90% joy, but the results are so the business is so result driven. And that, you know, a big moment, a big result is so difficult to get us some coaches and players are some coach or coaching for 30 years and then never managed to get a championship or a promotion or whatever they are. Because whatever reason they were in different clubs or whatever reason, you know, it just didn't achieve it. And I remember I spoke to Olga halide, the former Danish national team coach and he was a head coach in several clubs and they're just getting Scandinavian countries. He said three times he was so close to win the championship three times you know, like on the last day they could have won it but they lost the game or whatever. And then in the fourth attempt, you know, win another club, you want it so there's a lot. That's the same. We have performed unbelievable in the last two years. And if you can talk about the served 100% with all the stats what we have realized with people, we shouldn't get promoted either last year or this year, we still have a chance. But we also know, well, a chance that we maybe not will get promoted. And that will be so unbelievable painful. But the good news is that the second after the ref is blowing the whistle. lightbulb goes on, no matter if we're in a premier league or not. So it's so it's just fantastic to be part of that.
Paul Barnett 30:32
You talked about stats a minute ago. And of course, the Brentford model is quite famous. And people talk about it as a business model, not necessarily just as a sporting model. But it is built on trading players with such high rotation. How do you induct players into the culture when they arrive at the club so that they hit the ground running and become part of this togetherness, which you've talked about?
Thomas Frank 30:59
Yeah, I am very specific, actually have an interview or meeting with a player online on zoom later today as well, a potential player coming in in the summer. And in that meeting, I'm very precise in what I demand from him in terms of the style of play, so for example, let's say it's what midfield or right back, but doesn't matter a winger, you know, but this specific position, I have some clear bullet points that he needs to take, in terms of what we want for that type of player. Now, of course, no players are the same. So maybe we have 10 bullet points, then we might even all five or six of them, he's really, really good at so so I reinforce the message there with some video clips of how we're doing things in, you know, running deep or crosses, and how he is doing exactly the same thing. And so you can see all those, there's a good match here. After that, I have the four main pillars in terms of hardware togetherness, attitude and performance. That we need to take and, and togetherness especially it's very, very big. For us, and also say to them literally, and I can't swear on on the podcast, but we want to know decades. So we only want good characters, good persons, that that that add to, to the to the bigger performance. And then that so but you know, this job interview is always so positive. So they're just saying yes, yes, yes. And they are selling himself and we are selling us and hopefully is a very beautiful arranged marriage. But then the reality hits all of us the first day, but but I'm very on the first day I'm really you know, on top of them in a good way, keep reinforcing the good messages, keep showing video of the training, this is what I want you to do. Okay, this, okay, but you need to do this a bit better. That was good. So constantly doing that the first, the first weeks or months depending on or how it going? Or, or how important the player[PB16]
Paul Barnett 33:18
Thomas, you're building a reputation as a coach who's not afraid to change and innovate when the plan is not working. But what advice do you have for other leaders out there on finding this balance between being flexible and trusting your system, but also making the decision to change when things are not working?
33:35
Hmm
Thomas Frank 33:38
Good question. Um, definitely been, I think Yeah, I guess Of course, depending on what you believe in, but I, I believe a lot in in one system. And that's just how I was raised I would say in football terms. Find a specific way to play and you don't have to that specific way to play your style of play, of course, we all know doesn't affect the system. You know, you can play a specific way either for truth 343 whatever. But so I started playing but I believe a system where they know their roles in as a winger or fullback ability, and then you constantly try to make it better and adjust the small details. I think that's crucial. So that's definitely the way I have been that I believe. But of course, over time, I've been more and more wealth. Flexibility is good. But sleep habits always been built in through the head to systems just to change quit. They know the roles in both. But also a very important thing is that if you don't have the the players to play the specific system, then you may be need to change. So when I, when I took over in print for I played the four through three. But we struggled also also the I tried to test my chairman and owner with not, you know, I think we lost eight and one one and drew one out of the first 10. So that was quite challenging. And, but we analyze, we see we had some issues, so we changed it to a 343. And that definitely helped us still say the same style of play, but because of the little twist, it helped us to to get the best players to progress. Then lassies season, I started 343, who carried that into it, and then I changed to the 433. Again, because of the players, it just fitted better with three good midfielders so we changes to the 433. And then this season, actually, it was four to three. And then you know, we got injuries on our two, our two best fullbacks was out. So I tried to stick with the same system. But it didn't work, it was not as fluid, he was not as easy going. And definitely not as good on the eye. That is not the only thing of course about getting the three points and then there were sold. So then I changed it again to actually a 352. So but the, the the red line through all three systems is the same style of play. But just try to twist it to get the best out of the players available.
Paul Barnett 36:56
Thomas, you've been very generous with your time, if I could perhaps just ask one final question. And before I do, I'd like to just read a quote back to you actually, you say I love details in football. I want to create a beautiful game. But I'm very focused on how you can create a fantastic culture, a fantastic environment. So my final question is, in the distant future, when you do retire as a coach, what's the legacy that you want to leave?
37:25
That's a good, good.
37:28
Good question.
Thomas Frank 37:36
That's a big question. Oh, that's a really big question. And I don't really know, I don't think I work to create a legacy. I just work every single day and try to do my very best. I do hope that I would say that people see me as honest person with a big integrity. [PB17] I think that's, I think that's the biggest thing. And then then then hopefully also a decent coach
Paul Barnett 38:15
to challenge you on that. Yeah. We've never met, I've only been researching and reading about you, but just listening to you today, I get a sense that there's something in there around embracing accountability, for the good of togetherness, and I think that there's a power in those two. I don't know whether their values or those ideas and the power seems to manifest itself out on the pitch because we see that with the results that you've got. So I think this is these are the two big pillars that potentially come through for me anyway when i when i read and listen to you.
Thomas Frank 38:57
Thank you very much. I think I think it's a good way of seeing it definitely, I think I think it's about to try to create that unique team effort, togetherness performance out there. And there's very you know, I like to say give two good examples where you know, that made me really really proud in a way so it's not only it's always get How can you say it's always a stronger message if you all also win the game but but we played against born with the company and we know we know we're going to face them again but they'll go into a completely completely different games more markets and we can win or lose, but we played them away and they Premier League so I just got relegated you know last year and I thought after the game In one, one nil. But we were better in the LM 11, except the maybe first 1015 minutes, but you look at the chances to stats, all that. But after that, we went down to 10 men for the last 40 minutes plus six minutes at a time. And they, they didn't create one chance in that amount of time. And we create a few because of attitude, togetherness, hard work, and a good performance, especially on the defensive side. And a specific mindset, there was very you. Wow, that was very impressive. But then it comes down to two example from the training pitch last week, where I was really, that's when then you just know you don't see it sometimes, then they just just Oh, that was the moment. So we played we trained. So last time, we played against Bristol, last Saturday, three days ago, is not important game, you know, we were third, you know, but it just wanted to keep momentum so you could easily relax. And it's not that I'm out there you know, shouting and then every single day, but of course, I'm reinforcing my messages before we need to keep the tempo went. And then in the end of I think it was Tuesday. Anyway, doesn't matter Tuesday or Thursday, they played we is very rare, but the need sometimes a little freedom. So we we played young versus old when a half pitch and then we 11 No, no, no side. So totally free, four times four minutes. And that's normally then then you know, some playing strikers and then a bit, but then they always have this GPS on. So the numbers, the physical numbers was sky high. So normally, they maybe don't want sky high, because they didn't want to lose to each other. Because we created I know there's a bit of banter young result. But I promise you, in my more than 20 years of coaching more than 27 years of coaching, no matter what level in play young versus old, sometimes, a lot of times, it's just, you know, the one team or winning 10 kneel or whatever. And so, the physical armor sky high, and the skull was one nil. And it was a golden goal, so need to play longer time to get the winning goal. Another example is on a Friday before Bristol, sometimes you play small sided games, and this was just not young result, but just one sided 1010 games of one minute, the score was one one. So a lot of times those games are 10, five, or you know, something like that. And it was 10 five when I arrived to the club, but now it's so, so competitive. And that just shows me and I told it to players while guys you you incredible. And we had a mutual a golden goal. Again, to decided that just a good example. Good examples of of how how the culture has been developed.
Paul Barnett 43:18
competitiveness, intensity 27 years with the coaching, I think that's a great place to finish. And I'd like to thank you so much for your time today. Thomas. It was a wonderful chat about coaching and leadership and wish you all the best for the game on Saturday.
Thomas Frank 43:33
Thank you very much. It was a pleasure in any ways, I must must say I appreciate that. Thank you, Jim as well.
Paul Barnett 43:41
Thank you, Thomas.
Thomas Frank 43:43
Thank you ticket.
43:43
Cheers.
Paul Barnett 43:45
What a great interview Thomas that was so much more than we could have ever expected. I can see why you're having such great success at the club. It was I've got Danish friends and I shouldn't be surprised by how raw and honest and forthright you are but it was it was truly wonderful. Thank you very much.
Thomas Frank 44:04
Thank you, thank you. It was a pleasure being here always in enjoying much more enjoy these podcasts interviews to speak about coaching and and hopefully help other young coaches that can go forward with some kind of advice. That's definitely something I will think about in the future if I could do something helping other coaches
Paul Barnett 44:29
I think there's a in the way the world is at the minute I think the selflessness of people that coach and the leadership values they have a really in demand right now because of the way they think the world's going. So I think there's something about stoicism selflessness resilience that's really reflected in in great coaches. So we thank you for being one of them.
Thomas Frank 44:52
Thank you, I try.
Paul Barnett 44:56
So good luck and we'll be watching on from afar
Thomas Frank 45:00
Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much. We will
45:05
attack
Paul Barnett 45:06
and hopefully, you will be attacking and wonderful. And I will send you a link when we put the podcast up and I look forward to sharing it with everybody. So thank you again, Thomas.
Thomas Frank 45:15
thank very much. Take care.
45:17
Thanks, guys. Bye. was good. Gosh, I really got into that.
45:27
Yeah, it's good. Hey, cheering
45:31
Yeah. Oh, guys. I just listened to him from the media department. So it sounded good. Yeah, it
Paul Barnett 45:35
was great. Thank you. No problem. Oh, thanks, Mike. We'll we'll get to you when we put it up online. All right, back to Adam. I've been liaising with so all right back to you then.
45:48
No worries. Thanks. Great
Paul Barnett 45:50
to see you, my boy. Tim, I'm just gonna rerecord question five while we're online.
45:58
Yeah, do that again yet that was that was written one down. And because there was a break in there and the dog and other stuff that was going on, but do that make?
Paul Barnett 46:08
Thomas when you stepped into your first sorry, Jim, this is question five to be edited in. Thomas when you stepped into your first senior coaching position at brondby in 2013. And you were able to quickly turn the team around with a fourth place finish in the 2014 season. also taking them to a Europa League qualifying spot. What were the first things you did that night enabled this, this great result?
46:36
There we go. Good one night Well, look at