Andy Friend Edit

Thu, 9/9 6:57AM • 29:50

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coach, players, people, life, listen, game, year, season, coaching, attempt, call, culture, work, values, thought, good, bit, read, error, view

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Andy Friend

Paul Barnett 00:00

So Andy friend, Good morning, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.

Andy Friend 00:04

Thanks for having me on, Paul.

Paul Barnett 00:05

Now we're very excited to have someone an Australian but in Ireland joining us today a really simple question to begin with, could you tell us where you are? And I know it's only 9am. But could you tell us what you've been up to this morning,

Andy Friend 00:16

I mean, go away. On the west coast of Ireland, we played a game last night against monster the last game of the 2019 20 season, we were absolutely touched up 49 to 12. So this morning, I spent trying to relive that game and look through it and try and find the any part as positive as I can out of it. But also, it's the last game of the season. So we've got to review it at midday today with the rest of the team. So just trying to get on top of that night,

Paul Barnett 00:44

we were lucky to get your time given it's the end of the season. So we do appreciate it, especially after what sounds like a pretty ordinary evening, I'll try to make this a little bit more entertaining for you.

Andy Friend 00:52

Thank you,

Paul Barnett 00:53

Daddy, I'd like to start just by taking you back actually, because you've had firsthand experiences some great coaches, Eddie Jones, David Brock off Matt Williams, Bob Dwyer. And that's just to name a few. But what do you think these great coaches do differently from the others?

Andy Friend 01:09

Listen, I have been very fortunate, I've worked with some great coaches, I think the great coaches have a real sense of their own purpose and what they think is the right way to do something. But at the same time, I also think they're inquisitive, and you never stop growing. As a coach, I reckon you've got to continue to stretch yourself and, and to challenge the way you think and the way you do things. But I think first and foremost, you've got to have your staff. And if I think back to those men individually, they all had their own style, which was quite different to each other. But it was their style. And that, to me is one of the key things, you need to be a great coach.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 01:43

And you had a really nomadic upbringing, those were, I think, the way you described it, yourself, Canberra to Melbourne, than to Switzerland and England. And I'm wondering what elements of this life experience have found their way into your coaching style, or as you just described at your coaching purpose?

Andy Friend 02:01

Yeah, I was really fortunate as a young man, my father worked in the Department of Finance, and we moved around the world, which, back in the 70s 80s, it was done, but it probably wasn't done as prevalent as it is now, although in the current period is not done at all, is it but we're exposed to a whole range of different cultures and ways of living. Again, at the time, you don't understand probably what they're doing for you. But it is opening up your eyes to new ways of doing things. So if I take some of those learnings out of what I learned, as a young boy doing that into my current coaching, I'm forever accepting of what's there. I don't come in and prejudge, and I don't come in and attempt to know that I know a culture because I'm very familiar with having to move to new cities and new new countries in order to learn and respect the new culture. So that certainly helps me and I think it's also helped me to just to work with different people. Yeah, we're all diverse in our own way. Some ethnic, some religious and political, some family aren't, whatever it is, but we've all got our own way of doing things. And I think as a young boy, growing up with all that different change, it allowed me just to accept that, that that's the norm. [PB2] And I think it's one of the great, great, Steven COVID quotes that I really believe in is seek to understand before being understood, and I never walk in any way and try and say, here's what I'm about to do, I sit back, and I try and observe and listen and, and work out the culture of the place and what's important. And then once I try and understand that I can maybe share some of my views upon that. So I think that as a young black, that's what allowed me to do.

Paul Barnett 03:30

I'd like to build on that actually, but just winding back a little bit 2011. And you were with the brumbies and your contract was terminated. And when you were reflecting on that situation, you said in the end, I've got to take some responsibility for it. I'm very values driven. And I pushed some values into the team rather than allowing the team to come up with their own values. Could you maybe talk about the changes you've made to your style, and the way you talk about values and behaviors from that moment? On what?

Andy Friend 03:59

Yeah, and it was a great lesson. It was a it was a tough lesson, because I want to lose your job. But there was a lot of things transpired in me losing my job there. But as I said, I definitely as a young coach, I came in and I said, here's, here's what I believe are the five key values we should live and they're good values. The issue was Randy friend, friends values, they weren't the values of the team. So my great learn out of that, I'm still very values driven. I still have my own values, but I don't try and force them upon a group. It has to be the group that finds its own way. And what tends to happen is the group, if you're the leader of the group, and you live the values that use you talk about that comes through in everything you do. So they pick up on that people that they're smart, they work that out, so you don't actually have to verbalize them. [PB3]

But when you're sitting down to talk about the culture of the group or the way we want to be seen, or the way we do things around here, what's important to you fellows, they will tend to come up with the same things that you believe in any way because they've seen you operate and I see the way you move and, and what you stand for. So my learn out of that was don't come in and say, here's what we're going to do come in and say, right, what's important, seek to understand. And then try and work with the people to the players and the other staff to build a culture that fits within the boundaries of what I think is acceptable. And I call it the bandwidth of acceptance, there is a bandwidth of acceptance for me. And it's reasonably broad and additive outside of that, like, if I'm going to throw a value in there that I just didn't agree with, well, we'd have a discussion, but more times are not going to do that in a leadership group, because they're leaders. [PB4] And so long answer they're poor. But I suppose the key thing was don't seek to push things upon people, let them find their way and work with them.

Paul Barnett 05:42

I read actually, that when you got to content, you took this approach, you got everyone off site, I think, including the broader club, 90 plus people, you got them together, and you got them to commit to something called the promise. And there was selected behaviors below that, could you share some details about this promise and how you created it?

Andy Friend 06:04

Yeah, I'm in my third year, just about to start my third year now of mechanic contract. And when I came in, we did that we did that initially, just with the tighter group, the team. And then in the second year, we expanded it out a little bit, but kind of have their own values to which which are really strong, and its ambition believe in community, they're the things that they really believe in. So as long as and that was their bandwidth, and a very good chat with the CEO really rewind. And I said, Really, I really want to put some focus on this cultural piece. And he said, for any as long as it sits underneath that banner, which it did, that was the driving force for climate rugby. So when we then went as a collective group of players and Academy and wider staff, we had a good chat around, right? How do we fit underneath that banner, and what's important to us in terms of a promise, growing together, driven to succeed, as well as the behaviors that will live that and just through discussion and challenging each other and getting different perspectives, we came up with the key behaviors, which we then build upon again, this year, going into the new season. So I think the important thing with culture, everyone has a culture, you need to know it's a culture, that is the right culture for the group. And because you do one cultural meeting doesn't mean you've now got a culture, it's an everyday thing. And it continues to change and evolve over time. And the more time you spend on that, in my view, the stronger it becomes in, the stronger your club becomes. And the more you start to see that in the way you're playing the way you do everything. So this is a bar to enter a third year, it's been a step by step process, we've got more growth to go in that area. But I can say, honestly, we're starting to build a really, really powerful culture that I think we're transferring the winds, which is what we're about, as a regulator,[PB5]

Paul Barnett 07:46

you talked to the start about doing a review today of the game. And I guess it's the end of the season. So you'll also do a season in review, will you use that frame in the way that you give feedback to the players about their performance?

Andy Friend 07:58

Yeah, we always do. So we have what we call. So we've got the cultural piece, which is the way we just do things, it's the way we do things around here, we then have our own field, big rocks, we call them so attacking our defense, they're based upon two or three key things that we want to always see. So for example, in our attack, we got on the ball on off the ball, it's about going forward and finding space. So whenever we're reviewing a performance, it's all around that. Whenever we're reviewing a defensive performance, it's all around that whenever we're reviewing a cultural performance, it's all around the four key behaviors, which we've currently got. And the four key behaviors that came out of that promise. And that's evolved through time to is number one challenge and be challenged. Number two, prepare to winter, do whatever it takes to win. Number three is to know you're with the boy so now your ships and know what you do, but know what you're doing, therefore, performance. And the last one is don't be a dick. And again, that's the players word. So again, it's not at friends words as it applies word. So those four things, whenever we're doing anything, we say, Do you know your stuff? And are you doing it? You've been a diaper addict? Did you prepare to win, and I prepared to have the challenging conversations and beat to challenge and be challenged. And pretty much that covers virtually everything that we do on a daily basis. And if we see it, we call it out and we say, brilliant, your preparation is outstanding or great conversation while after pulling up and have a great conversation or lengthy, rewarding effort that you just saw. Conversely, we see something that didn't happen correctly, you say, hey, that's not what we do around here. Don't do that. So we're forever challenging that and referring to that. I'm bringing that to life because it can't just a culture can't just be was words on a wall. It has to be something that you live. I think[PB6]

Paul Barnett 09:37

Andy just listening to you and reading your background. I think the fact that you've traveled and coached in Japan, England, Ireland, Australia, has created this focus on simplicity of language, and simplicity of ideas. I really like the idea of these big rocks. Could you tell us how you've used that concept? And that simplicity To drive improved performance,

Andy Friend 10:02

one of my greatest learnings was when I was in Japan, so I moved to Japan as a would have been coaching for in my fifth year of coaching, and you arrive in Japan. And again, as a fifth year coach, you think you know, most of the things that are going on you don't you got no idea at the time reflection, you get an ID, but we're still you got no language I couldn't speak. I couldn't speak Japanese, I now speak a version in Japanese. And it's a version that allows me to get the simple thing said, so my Sue ran straight, he died immediately left right, to to concentrate. So your language becomes very direct and very to the point because you can't waffle in our mother's tongue, we can waffle and we, we often lose the meaning of a message just through this fluff that sits around a message. But when you don't know the language, you just have to tell it how it is concentrate, well done, get quick and move off the deck, the discipline, whatever it was, became very Matter of fact. And I've definitely kept that in my coaching sensor, and have paired it back to try and keep keep the message as simple as possible. So that's what we're attempting to do whenever we're trying to communicate.[PB7] I think the other big thing for all people, not rugby players, but most people learn more through vision and doing than they do through listening. So why do we stand up there and just talk, they're not learning as much as they are, unless we're showing them something or actually getting them out there and doing that. So we attempt to as best we can, whenever we are communicating with a team, we've always got vision there. And we always tend tend to move straight out to the field, and try and put in place where it was we just practice or what we just talked about. Sorry,

Paul Barnett 11:36

can I take you back to Japan for a minute, because I was I read actually, that you said even if I work 24, seven, I still find things to do. I was kidding myself trying to think I was going to get it all done. And that's when I started to prioritize the key things. And I'd be really interested to hear you. What are the key things you would advise coaches to let go of, particularly rugby coaches,

Andy Friend 11:58

I think, again, as a young coach, you want to try and solve the world, you want to try and fix everything you know, and I threw myself into every little bit of detail around a break down around a line at around scrounge around attack, play, defense play, and I took my eye off the ball, which was you know, to me, coaching is all about relationships, it has to be, it has to be about building this, I call it the bank account of trust with your, with your coaches and with your players. But if you become a keyboard warrior, and you keep your head in the keyboard, you don't build as relationships, you never get to the end of it. [PB8] Because we know make this so many things go on on a regular game. And there's so many interpretations of what just happened. So my whole thing was this. And it actually leads to the philosophy, my coaching philosophy, know the game, I know the game, I played the game of keishon. For years, I stay up to date with the game, it is forever changing, but I started out with it. So I know the game, but I coach the individual, think about the individual keep thinking about the individual. So probably my time at them might not probably my time at the moment, I would be spending 70% of it with the individual. And that's every individual player and 30% of it looking at the podium, because I've got other good coaches around me now that support me in doing that. So I spend more of my time now on the individual than I do on on the game itself and the detail. [PB9]

So that definitely helped me and probably the last thing with that whole priority of things, you've still got to function as human being yourself. So you can spend if you wanted to 24 seven, but you're no good to anyone you haven't had you're not your own person. So I try and well, I don't try I do I break up my day. And there's definitely some me time in there. So what do I need? What does any friend need to function at his best, I need to exercise I need to walk I need to listen, I need to read, listen to podcasts, I need to have my own space. So I give myself that. And it's normally two hours a day. But I get up quite early often in the morning, I come home and I go for a walk or or get on a bike or do something. I have no my wife time. My wife's here, our two boys are back in Australia. But we have some quality time every single day that we put aside just for us where the phones go off, and we just had our moments. And then I have work time. [PB10] And it depends upon where you are during the year. But we're about to walk into a week of breaks, there's going to be a lot more me time and lifetime and news worked on which is a nice, nice week, it's about to happen. But when you're in the middle of a season, the lifetime In the meantime, might shorten down a little bit. But you got to do more work. But as we you go through the different stages of the season, that change is probably the last thing on that to sleep we say to our players sleep. But so often coaches don't sleep. I've just finished reading the Matthew Walker book why we sleep which for anyone who wants to improve their life have a read of that, but I give myself a minimum of eight hours sleep every night, a minimum very rarely go beyond eight and a half but my discipline around going to bed and then early and then getting up early is really strong. So you're forming some good habits and but I'll know that because I didn't do that before.

Paul Barnett 14:54

said you're very family orientated. It comes through in a lot of the interviews and things that are Ready to bet you, you've also got great discipline, was there an event or a person in your life that helped you form these routines, these beliefs,

Andy Friend 15:10

I probably can't single anyone out what I can say. And I didn't realize until you get a little bit older that my norm was brilliant. So my norm was a mum and dad, two brothers. It wasn't money, because mum and dad were middle class, but we didn't need for anything we always had. You had clothes and you had, you had food. So we've never lived a very privileged life for that. But it's never an extravagant life. But but it's only when you get later on. When you meet other people, you realize that's not the norm for a lot, don't have parents still together may not have siblings may have different situations. So I suppose as you go through life, you realize that what was presented to you and I call it the lottery of life, my lottery, I want to live like they they're born to great parents and family has always been really important to us. So that's what we've attempted to carry in our with our two boys. My view on life is if we all presented or produce better offspring, then then we will have a pretty good spot. So that's what we've attempted to do. And we've been put in a few years time later.

Paul Barnett 16:13

Can I take you back again to the teacher, who, when you were 16 asked you that great question around what you wanted to do with your life. And it led you to articulate, I wouldn't mind a future career in rugby. But I wanted to ask you, based on the fact that you were asked this great question that set you on a new journey in a different direction. What are some of the most challenging questions that your players have asked you over the years,

Andy Friend 16:39

there's a range like we've ever I think, just on a weekly basis, we're forever. You know, if you think about a coach's week, we have a squad of 44 players, we select 15 every weekend. So there's virtually two thirds of your squad are getting selected. And the questions they asked is why? Why am I not doing what am I going to do? How am I going to do it. So I'm a big believer in the what, why how I'll tell you what, what you need to do, I'll tell you why you need to do I'll tell you how I think you should do it. So we get those questions all the time. And the ability to try and communicate that to a young bloke who's quite emotional, at the time can be tricky. But again, over years of practice with it, I'd like to think that a reasonable ability to get that message across, don't always get it across but attempt to try and get that across. So that's that's on a weekly basis. But then you've also got the things that life throws at you and people coming in and sharing with you some things that have happened at home and what what should I do about this or career decisions, some mental health decisions, or mental health things that happen so there's an array of things that go on a yearly, an annual basis, every year, you can probably pick, you're gonna you know, you're gonna have a conversation around someone either wanting to separate from a partner or a spouse, you're gonna have someone whose loved ones passed away, and they're going to ask you how to deal with that. You're gonna have people who are moving on and they need some advice on that as well as now just the weekly stuff of selection or non selection. And you've normally always got something with a with a mental health or well being issue that you're going to need to deal with. So there's a myriad of things made and they you never know when they're gonna pop up either they just pop up. But I think the most important thing is you got to listen. We're gonna go back to the what I said at the front end that Caitlin's about relationships, you've got to be able to build that trust that someone's able to come to you and talk. And then you got to sit back and listen and listen to what their situation is as empathetically as you can listen, seek to understand what they're doing. And then if they want advice guide, and if they don't just listen, just be a be an ear for him. But that's one of the things I love about the job. Just the diversity in what we do. People just think we're like out there with a with a whistle. That would be honestly now that would be 5% of my my week. The rest of its just dealing with people.[PB11]

Paul Barnett 18:54

And how do you debrief from that? I mean, that's a lot of energy. I don't know that a lot of thoughts, a lot of feedback for you to hang on to Is there a way you find of sort of dealing with it, working through it, letting it go? I guess so you can get home and have your own time and find that line into your personal life?

Andy Friend 19:12

Yeah, and that and that's why previously I said they need memory meter, I've got a meter and I do that in a range of different ways. I'll do it just been by myself and processing and reflecting and sometimes you reflect upon a conversation you've had and I didn't get that right. So you're I just pick up the phone or ring or ring the person back. I said he's a deflationary, I didn't didn't share that. And once I've put that to bed, I can actually I have the capacity to let that go. Sometimes it's about talking to a third party about respecting confidentiality the whole time. But if I say to somebody, I might need to seek more advice on this. Are you comfortable with that area? Or Yes, I am within our organ on seek more advice on that. So just talking that through somebody sometimes just bring it at home and sharing it with my wife, not necessarily names, but you go through this happened today, and it's Is my think thought process. What do you reckon? She's a great confidence information she, I think Carrie does, in particular, but I think women see things differently as well. And certainly people that don't work in your environment the whole time and aren't swamped by the full time nature of what it is that we do, they can see a different thing than what you often see. So I do share that, that sort of stuff. Again, always respecting confidentiality, so but I do I go back to my sleep thing. They did a sleep study on me about five years ago, I fall asleep within two minutes. Every night, I sleep 95% of the night, I don't move. So I have a capacity to be able to pack things, get a good night's sleep, get up and go again. And I learned that in Japan, actually, that was probably one of the best things I picked up for me.

Paul Barnett 20:42

That's a great skill to have. Actually, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there listening who are very envious. Could I talk to you a little bit about errors? Because I think you've got a really simple, clean way of describing the three types of errors you see, and how you help athletes deal with them.

Andy Friend 20:57

Yeah, well, I think before we even get on to that, I think the way you view failure is massive in terms of how successful your life is kind of be. To me failure is just an opportunity, though. And if you see failure through those eyes, you're welcome challenge and you're welcome. The opportunity to stretch yourself. So we've been working really hard with getting our players to do that you'll never play a perfect game of footy, you'll never lead a perfect life You won't does not happen. It's not a fairy tale doesn't happen. So accept that there is going to be disappointment, and there is going to be error. The three areas that I see on a rugby field, first one is a skill error. So if we have a player who is attempting to perform a skill and doesn't get it right, that's fine. We just now now know that there's a breaking point in your ability to execute that skill, whatever that skill is, at this level. Now what caused that? Was it fatigue? Was it lack of body position? Was it lack of ball control? was it was it lack of tackle technique, whatever it was, but we can work on that. So we try and identify with a player. This is what happened. That's cool. We'll work on that. So we need to now put you in those positions more often. And try and build the skill now to get to that new level. Second one is a knowledge era. So you were meant to be here. Were you aware of that? No, it wasn't, I was aware of that. But at the time I was I just wasn't thinking sweet. So it's not, it's not part of your DNA yet. So we'll work with you on that too. Either you don't know the knowledge, or you didn't know it, but under this condition it broke. So the other thing with that what we've learned is we've got a few players within our squad who are dyslexic. So we need to educate them differently. We can't just sit at the front desk, and I said at the front end, we you don't realize that the front end just taught with river, sharing vision and then getting out and doing but we have identified those players who have learning difficulties, and we work with him in a different way. But if you've got a skill error, or a knowledge error, we can work with you on that it's not a bad thing. We'll work with you on that. The last error is an attitude. And that's the one where that's not acceptable. you own your attitude. My message that applies is your job is to turn up today with an attitude that wants you to be better than what you were yesterday. And if you can do that, right, we got a great relationship. But if you choose not to the attitudes, not right, there's not really a place for you. And we're at the point where we just say Listen, I just prefer you leave the training field doesn't get aggressive doesn't get angry, just because and that's not the right attitude. Just hop off the field. Change it for us and welcome back.[PB12]

Paul Barnett 23:20

Andy you coached Harlequins in 2005. When you help them get promotion up to the english premiership and a place in the Heineken cup. You've said that your time there was a great lesson in sticking to what you know is right, and doing the basics. So I'm wondering if we took being different now this particular passionate coach with a lifetime of learning and still a long way to go? What advice would you be given to yourself back in 1995? When you started your coaching career,

Andy Friend 23:47

it would go back to I suppose when you asked me the first question of the day, which is around one of the great coaches and what do they do? And it would be now your purpose? And now you I say to the players, what's your weapon? And what's your work ons? So my weapon, in my view, after 26 years of coaching is relationships. That's what I feel that I do best. So once you know your weapon, I say will become world class at that to voice over young play. What's your weapon? And I said, it's my mother footsteps Wait, I want you to be the best left foot stepping again. What's your work on? What do you think you could add to your game that would make you better? If you look at my body in front better in defense, I'd be better defenders sweet, we'll work on that. So for me and a friend, I would say, what's my weapon? It's my relationship building. What's my work on? It's my ongoing capacity or ability to balance get life balance in what it is that I do. And I believe I've worked really hard on that and I'm getting there. So I reckon that's first and foremost, that's organize Paramount know what you're good at, and then try and be the best you can and have one or two things to work on. And once you master that book, The next one or two things to work on but keep working on that weapon and make that the sharpest thing you can do interesting[PB13]

Paul Barnett 24:59

any Because listening to you, I've never experienced playing for you. But it sounds like you've got great balance in your life. And you would be a great role model for people in that area. Because so many people struggle with that. But also, there's a lot of pressure on coaches and people in business and in all facets of life to be always on, always available, it must be hard to actually hold that line and say, No, no, I'm off the clock now. And I'm going to do my own thing. Is there any advice or learnings or something you can share with us in in being strong when it comes to defining that line?

Andy Friend 25:31

Yeah, well, the easiest things, turn your phone off, just turn everything off, because now I can contact you. But again, it's it's a personal discipline. And we say to our players the whole time, we want you to be disciplined. But if we don't show the same sort of discipline, well, we're not walking the talk. So for me, most will ask staff and players know that anything after seven o'clock now try and contact friends. And if they do, they normally ring and they're like, really sorry that I guy, now it's urgent, I don't know, I don't turn my phone off. Because there's an understanding that after seven o'clock, no one's going to contact me, it's my time. And I suppose that's just getting that message out there. We again, we have probably like every other turn, you got a lot of WhatsApp groups come through, we're really strong and don't send anything out after eight o'clock. Because I don't want people watching their phone, I'm not going to watch it, I'm not going to say I'm going to say that to seven o'clock today and send it out and expect me to get a response in the morning, I'm going to get it. Don't send me an email. In fact, don't send me an email after five o'clock, because I'm not going to look at it. And I will be on the phone. But anything after seven, I'm just going to look at it. So pretty simple and clear around what the expectations are. It's amazing once people know that, how we adapt and how they adapt, and they just don't send you anything or they get their work done earlier, when they know you're going to be on so we don't make a big solid dance. It's pretty much as simple as[PB14]

Paul Barnett 26:47

ever had feedback from your boss that it's not acceptable.

Andy Friend 26:49

Now, No, I haven't certainly my current boss now really, really is fine with that. And I think he understands that too. Like he knows when we're on we're on normally on from about seven o'clock in the morning till that same night. That's a good 12 hour day. So I don't think he's going to expect me to work longer than that. Fair enough,

Paul Barnett 27:06

Eddie, just a couple more questions or no before before you run off. And I like to just talk about curiosity. And I'd like to ask you, how important do you think it is a sense of curiosity for an elite level coach? Is it highly important and nice to have or something you should always be driving to have more of,

Andy Friend 27:23

I think it's essential. I think if you start to become become comfortable with what it is you're doing and what you think you're, you know, you fall behind very, very quickly. So to make curiosities to everything, I'll read or listen or watch, or engage with as many people as I can just to see what it is that they're doing. And again, when I'm listening, I reckon this is the next key to what when you're listening to something, don't prejudge it, don't be saying, Yeah, but I do that. Just listen to it, listen to it, let it soak in and, and at the end of it, then reflect upon that. So I think curiosity is super, super important. And I think we never stop learning. And as soon as you think you're now at all You go,[PB15]

Paul Barnett 28:07

he talked about the Matthew Walker book, but has there been anything else recently that's really caught your attention and you thought was a good resource?

Andy Friend 28:13

Yeah, that the Stephen Covey, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People i thought was a brilliant book. Matthew sired books, I find him fascinating rebel ideas and blackbox thinking, I recently read the chimp paradox. a year or so ago, the chimp paradox, which I thought was just a fascinating insight into the way we as humans think and how our brain works. And from a foundational point of view of everything around yourself, and how you think that with the Stephen kV book, to me probably been the two best reads I've done in the last two years, three years.

Paul Barnett 28:45

Great. We'll check them out. And, Andy, just one final question, if we can, you've said that you want to be the type of coach who is able to allow others to express themselves, talk about what they are seeing and thinking, what is the legacy that you want to leave behind as a coach?

Andy Friend 29:01

I'd love the legacy. Well, first and foremost, wherever you go, I believe you should leave that club in a better place than what you found it. So that to me is an ongoing legacy. When if I turn up to a club, I want to say, well, the minute I walk in the door, the minute I left, it's in a better place now. So that's one but as an overarching legacy with the players that I work with, I would love for them to say I trusted him. He was honest with me, and he had any cared about me and he wanted the best thing for me as a bloke as well as as a footballer or as a staff member as well as an employee. And if I could do that, and I'd be pretty happy right[PB16] , Eddie friend,

Paul Barnett 29:37

it's been great chatting with you today. some wonderful inside. So wish you all the best for the season debrief. Hope you get a good break and have more success next season.

Andy Friend 29:46

Good on the poor. Appreciate it. Thank you.