Being Coachable edit
Mon, Sep 25, 2023 4:49PM • 25:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coachable, athlete, coach, work, learn, great, questions, good, feedback, love, book, world, bill belichick, player, playing, talent, sports, talented athletes, listen, today
SPEAKERS
Allistair McCaw, Gordon Tietjens, Rob Beveridge, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Alister McCourt, great to see you again. And welcome back to the great coaches podcast.
Allistair McCaw 00:06
It's great to be back. Thank you, Paul.
Paul Barnett 00:08
We appreciate you making the time we loved the last discussion around habits that make a champion. And we're back today now, of course, to talk about one of the key elements in the book, which is being coachable. But I'll stop before we begin. As always, where are you in the world and what you've been doing so far today?
Allistair McCaw 00:28
Same place at home here in Florida. I think between the last episode I was I was in Europe, Croatia, Serbia, Zurich, and UK. So that was a really a really good trip. So yeah, back home, back home where the Wi Fi is stable. So that's hopefully so yeah, nice to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:52
That was to what was happening on that trip.
Allistair McCaw 00:56
I was visiting one or two football clubs, which I can't, can't mention. So you know, some, some clubs, some athletes that you work with, prefer to to stay an ominous which is understandable. Of course, in in the professional world as well. It's all about keeping secrets and so on. So I was with two football clubs there. And then in Croatia, I was giving a seminar in Zagreb, which was was enjoyable. It's actually there two years ago. But yeah, really, really nice to be to the to go to the Baltic countries, and they're really really, you know, hungry for for new information. And yeah, that was that was really enjoyable,
Paul Barnett 01:36
are fantastic. It's I love following along on your trips on social media and seeing some of the amazing organizations that you get to connect with. But today's topic is coachable. And it's the opening chapter of the book, habits that make a chair champion and such a good book. So easy to read such great practical advice and some great wisdom from the people you've met around the world. But I wanted to start by asking Alice to what was it an easy choice as the first chapter in the book?
Allistair McCaw 02:09
Yeah, for sure. And you know, in the beginning, I probably wrote about 6065 chapters for the book, and decided to whittle it down to 50. And then then the the decision and the process of working together with the editor of choosing what the the order of each chapter would be as well. And for me coachable was from from the very start was going to be the first one. Because it all starts there is you know, if you're not coachable, if you're not willing to learn, then there's no point of going on this journey. If you're working with someone or training someone coaching someone, if they're not willing to be coached, then there's no there's no, there's no point of really, really pushing on. So that's something that I always like to get clear from from the beginning of working with somebody and always try to make it make it really clear as well pause it I'm also there to learn as a coach or mentor, a leader. I learned just as much from from the athlete or learned just as much from from the person on consulting, as they probably learned from me. So it's a win win situation as well. But, you know, it's no coincidence because obviously, one of the best NFL football coaches is Bill Belichick who's still at the New England Patriots. And he was you know, there's a lot of quotes in the book, as you know, Paul, and thank you for your your compliments on the book as well. I really appreciate that, especially, you being an avid reader and reading a lot of books, that really means a lot that you know Bill Belichick Bill Belichick says that it's not about talent, it's about dependability, consistency, being coachable and understanding what you need to improve. And that's just a quote that I love because it really starts there. And you know, if you have a look at the relationship he had with Tom Brady at the Patriots, you know, Tom came in very, very raw, of course, he was the 199th Pick, which is just ridiculous if you think about it, because he's gone on to be the goat of of NFL, one of the great with actually the greatest football player of all time. And he was he was almost wasn't drafted. He wasn't an athlete. He wasn't. You know, if you have a look at some of his combine videos as well, you can see those on YouTube. He was this tall lanky guy. Very, very slow over the 60 meters. I think he ran like a five point something and you know, that's way off the mark. But he, the key to Tom Brady, was his coachability and you know, someone like Bill Belichick was able to obviously work with an athlete like that. And you know, for me, those are the athletes that I really have a lot of respect for. And a lot of time we're the ones that maybe didn't have the most talent, but they were coachable. They made up for it with the coachability.
Paul Barnett 04:55
Was there an event or an experience which I shaped your view around the importance of coachability.
Allistair McCaw 05:05
I think that I think that started when I was very, very young. I had some some talent, I believe we all have some talent in some area. But I wasn't always the first pick in, you know, growing up, you know, in primary school in high school, in terms of it came to sports, I really had to work hard at getting getting anywhere. I wasn't one of those guys that could just pitch up and always be the best soccer player, rugby player, cricket player, wherever. And I think I mentioned this in the last show as well, I played seven or eight sports in school, which which I loved.
But something I think I picked up very, very early. And this was something that gave me the motivation and inspiration to write champion minded and, and this book habits that make a champion was, you know,
you might be lacking the talent, but if you're coachable if you're willing to be the best of the things that require zero talent. And those are things like being coachable, preparing, well, effort, your attitude, time management, all these things, then you will go very far if you're willing to work hard enough. And you know, there's that great quote, as well as, you know, hard work and a great attitude beats beats talent. And you know, I've seen it where athletes I've worked with as well in the past, where they maybe weren't the most talented, but just through being very coachable, wanting to learn, you know, I like to call them scholars of the sport as well, they would study it, they would watch a lot of videotape, they would ask a lot of questions, these, these were just the coachable athletes that were able just to improve and progress year after year, as were sometimes you can see with the more talented athletes, they really, they flatline at a little bit, they get to a certain level and they stay there. [PB1]
So yeah, that's that that would definitely have been, for me the start of learning about being coachable of how important it was at the young age. Also something I really believe in Paul is is you know, and I speak to, I get to speak to a lot of parents in seminars, you know, in clubs, and academies and so on is is that coachability starts at a very young age, it actually starts in the family of, you know, teaching your kids to be obedient and to be disciplined, and to listen, and so on and so forth. And of course, as a parent, that's not always the easiest thing. But I believe that coachability starts in the family, of how well you listen. And I also believe it's something about respect as well is listening to people that are giving you the time, teachers, coaches, these type of people that mold you at a very young age. You know, it's advice I give to parents is, is that earlier, you can teach your child to be coachable, and to listen well, and to understand that the person in front of you is trying to help you even if they don't agree with you, you're gonna progress a lot a lot further in life. I think it's a vital lesson at a young age.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 08:02
One of the interesting things actually, some of our interview guests talk about is coachability, being something that separates people with elite talent. In fact, I've got this great audio quote here from Rob Beveridge, who coached the world teen youth team against Team USA. And it really talks talks to this idea.
Rob Beveridge 08:22
So I really tried to define the roles of the players to make them comfortable. And when they started to get a bit ready, I'd bring them in and just reinforce to them. What's your strength? What are you great at, because in particular, at the International MBA level, everybody knows if you're talented, they know that they can see that you're six foot 10 With seven foot six wingspan and you're an athlete, they see that they want to see the coachability they want to see when I'm on the sideline when I'm communicating to a player. Is he actually listening to you? Or is he going off and doing his own thing? Is it becoming selfish, NBA scouts and NBA coaches and all over that whole entire thing when they're investing 10s of millions of dollars into into drafting players? They've got to get it right.
Paul Barnett 09:12
And I'm wondering, Alistair, if you could share with us your experience on either working with or learning about someone who's coachability propelled their career
Allistair McCaw 09:23
Yeah, you know if you listened to the to the last, the last episode that we had Paula spoke a lot about Kevin Anderson. The former world number five tennis player rich two Grand Slam finals at the US Open in 2017 last two Rafa Nadal and 2018 Last two Novak Djokovic won the Wimbledon final no shame in that reaching two Grand Slam finals and losing to those absolute goats. That's another debate in sport as well as who is the goat is it Novak Roger or Rafa? I think the way Novak is going I think he might pick them when it comes to Grand Slams, but You know, Kevin was, and I say this respectfully, and he knows this as well. He, you know, asked his permission to write about it, as well as that, respectfully. He was one of the least talented athletes I worked with, but he went the furthest in terms of ability. And like I said, being brilliant at the things that require zero talent, he maximized himself so much every single day. Again, I don't want to go too much into it. But he was always inquisitive.
A coachable athlete is not just a good listener, but they ask a lot of questions as well. And I believe a coachable athlete is someone that, you know, like to say that looks, listens, asks, and learns. So a coachable athlete looks. They're very observant. They look you in the eyes when you're talking. You know, they just want to get as much out of you as possible. Like Michael Jordan said, he was like a sponge, that he was obsessed in learning more that they listen well. They ask a lot of questions. And they learn that is that's a coachable athlete. [PB3]
But Kevin was one of those, I think, give you one more that maybe I didn't mention in the first episode was Graham Smith, the South African cricket captain for a long time, I worked with him when he was 1718. And before he was, of course, he was a good young cricketer, you could see the potential. But already at that young age, he already had the leadership skills, very mature for a 1718 year old. And also he was, he was someone that would just just taken a lot of information and ask a lot of questions. You know, there wasn't that ego or cockiness of, you know, they, they're great at what they do. They're a superstar at what they do. So they don't really need to know much. Graham was someone that I knew that would go very, very far in his career, because of his ability to listen, to learn to look to ask a lot of questions.
Paul Barnett 12:01
In the book, Alistair, and actually, even in this discussion today, you make the connection between welcoming feedback and being coachable. It's quite a quite a prevalent connection. Feedback is a challenging area for many of us. And I'm just wondering what tips you have for leaders on giving feedback that leads to improve capability?
Allistair McCaw 12:22
Yeah, you know, the most important thing too, you know, it's one thing to give feedback, but is the person in front of you ready to receive that feedback. And I think timing is a critical part in in giving feedback, especially constructive criticism. I don't believe in negative feedback, I believe in constructive criticism. But, you know, one of the big areas is trust, and the person in front, he wants to know that you it's actually coming from the right place, that you really care about them. And those things take time, you know, so building up building up a relationship with somebody that the stronger that relationship is, the more they're going to be able to accept feedback and constructive criticism in a good way. You know, Brendan Rodgers, you know, the former Liverpool Celtic, actually, he's back at Celtic now, but Leicester manager as well, you know, he said, it's, it becomes easier to give difficult feedback and have the tough conversations when you have a better relationship with with that person. And this is something you know, that Alex Ferguson was very good at, as well, of course, the Manchester United coach was, you know, when speaking to Phil Neville, you know, Phil said that he was just excellent at giving that that feedback, because you knew it came from the right place. So that's important. Number one.
I have the single PPT and this is, you know, this is not just for sports coaches and people involved in sports, but this is for for everybody is that PP T T stands for is this the right person to give this feedback to? Is this the right place? Is this the right time. And to use, use the right tone of voice as we know, the tone of voice is very important, you can say, the same message in a different way that can be can be received in a different way as well. So I think that's very important. You know, I'm also a fan of, you know, praise in public and criticize in private, you know, never do that in front of other people as well. But you know, it is one of the it is one of the skills, great skills of really good coaches and really good leaders is they know how to give constructive criticism and feedback in the right way. But it really does all you know, really all comes down to the timing. And I believe the relationship you have with that person in front of you, they want to know do you really care? That is the question on every athlete employee when you're having those conversations,[PB4]
Paul Barnett 15:01
Let's do we interviewed the legendary or black sevens coach. So Gordon kitchens, and he talked a lot about character and coachability. In fact, I've got the audio grab here,
Gordon Tietjens 15:12
I think that comes down to us and the onus is on a coach is, you've got to have the right people. So you have to recruit Well, it's about selecting the right people that are going to buy into the culture that you believe is going to be successful for your team. And I've always selected on character and character issues shape, character and coach ability work hand in hand. And that, to me, is vital.
Paul Barnett 15:34
If someone wanted to start using coachability, in their selection criteria at work, for example, or in their local sporting team, what kind of questions do you think they should be asking?
Allistair McCaw 15:48
Yeah, this is a really good question. And this This is, this is something that actually got me really thinking about it. And I came up with three things, they actually actually wrote them down pull.
The first thing I'd want to do is I want to know why you play why you compete. Why do you do what you do? I think that's one of the most important questions is to find what motivation they have behind why they're playing. You know, you see the difference between an athlete that loves to, obviously, all athletes, most athletes love, love to compete, of course, but athletes that also love to practice, that gives you a little bit of a background that they also love to learn, they love to get they want to get better. A lot of athletes will say they just love to compete, they love to win. They love the feeling of it, for example, but a really coachable teachable athlete is some of the also loves to practice. They love the process of, of, you know, getting to work every single day and getting better. So that's the first thing. Another question I'd probably ask is, What has been your greatest learning moment in your career? And that's a question that or that's an answer that can lead on to many other other questions for the coach or the recruiter or the person that's asking the question is what has been their most notable moment? And you know, you can elaborate on that as what did you learn about it? What What, What actions did you take from it afterwards? So a few of those things can give us a little bit of insight into what they were able to do with that information. Because it's one thing to be coachable. But it's also another thing to take action. of, you know, you can listen well. And you know, like I said, again, like I said, you can look, you can listen, you can ask questions, and you can learn, but you also have to take action, as well. And then the third thing was, and this is a very interesting question, as well as who is someone you wouldn't learn from? So it's, it's actually a, quite a tough question to ask, because, and I've used this question in, in recruiting is, if the athlete was to say something, for example, as well, I wouldn't learn from anybody that hasn't reached the level I have for I wouldn't learn from anybody that's not played at a high level for someone that that sends up a little bit of a red flag to me, because I believe you can learn from absolutely everybody, of any age of any level of any skill level, for example. So those are those are probably three of the key questions that I would ask in terms of seeing somebody as coachable because, of course, we know, in an interview, you can say all the right things. So that's why I said I really thought about that question. And those are probably three questions I've come up with[PB5] .
Paul Barnett 18:40
I'm going to ponder the answers to those questions straight after this. Let's do the three cracking questions. I particularly love that second one so fantastic. Fantastic tool, I think, for all of us to take forward. LSD, you say? You also say in the book that to be coachable, you must not be afraid to try new things. So you make this link between learning, reflecting and innovating. I'm wondering if there's an example you can share that illustrates this idea.
Allistair McCaw 19:13
I think I think you're chatting to Sarah Harini. Sarah Renu is was the longtime New Zealand All Blacks rugby captain, I think sevens and 50s as well. And Sarah is just a fantastic competitor. And if I can remember correctly, she's actually in a chapter in the book as well where she talks about about player not being afraid to make mistakes and a player that and she used this word freedom. And, you know, this has a lot to do with having a growth mindset as well as being as being coachable is you know, when you have a growth mindset, you're not afraid to make mistakes. Not everybody is afraid to make mistakes in some way. Let's face it, especially under pressure And especially when, you know, if you're playing in front of a large audience, or as we've just had, for example, the materials is playing in the World Cup, for example, that's the last place where you want to make make a mistake. But, you know, Sarah, Sarah was talking about the fact that the great players are, are less afraid to make mistakes, they're, they're willing to take certain risks, and they also play with a certain certain amount of freedom as well. And you know, that comes from being coachable and having a growth mindset of not being afraid to make mistakes, you know, if I just have to think back, and you'll love this example, obviously, being Australia's, one of the first real inspirations for me in rugby was David Campisi. And obviously, growing up in South Africa, you know, he was the arch, the arch enemy, you know, being the Australians and the All Blacks with with the South Africans, for example, but, you know, if you look at Campisi, you know, you had that goose step, and you had all these things, you know, he was not afraid to take risks, you he would do some, some crazy things on the field as well that he had pull off, and sometimes they wouldn't, but you know, I can see a player like that being very, very coachable, willing to learn new skills. So yeah, that that's, that's what I would. That's what I definitely go there is that, you know, a growth mindset is, is a massive part of being coachable?
Paul Barnett 21:22
Well, I think this is a theme, we hear from a lot of people that we interview to this, this need to have a growth mindset as a coach, as you step out into the world and, you know, try to often accomplish, you know, very uncommon things.
Allistair McCaw 21:35
But I think if there's, if I could just sorry, just elaborate on that on that one, Paul, is, I think there would be, I always, always love to do self reflection. And I encourage encourage athletes and people I've worked with to self reflect after a practice session, for example. And I mentioned this in the book as well. But you know, if there was two things I would, I would, if you were to try and assess your coachability, if that's something that you really wanted to work on, for example, is, you know, one question after practice would be would be the simple one of what did I learn today? Okay, that's being coachable. What did you take out of today? And it's something that when I was coaching more, I'm not as coaching as much now I'm more consulting, but when I was in front of the athlete or in front of the team, I'd always want to know, after a practice session, what did you learn today, because that would give me feedback as a coach, what they were able to get from the lesson was it. So begin before the lesson, I would obviously have one or two priorities or goals that I really wanted to get across in this in this session. So it was important feedback for me at the end of a session to know if they if they were able to, to understand that and get what I was trying to get across. So that was important. So that gave me feedback in my coaching ability, as well. And then the second question is that you could ask yourself as how well was I engaged today? You know, you know, so the first one is, what was the lesson and the second one was, uh, how good was my attention? How was how good was my focus today? Because, you know, being coachable is about and I'll say it again, is looking, listening, asking, and learning. How good was I in those areas that it doesn't two questions that you can self reflect on, because I believe at the end of the day, self improvement begins with self reflection.
Paul Barnett 23:25
And sounds like a great little scorecard you could make for yourself and just inserted in your journal and use that to reflect on how you've gone. Yeah. Maybe illustre. If I could ask one final question. If you could leave us with one final piece of advice on being coachable, what would it be?
Allistair McCaw 23:46
I would definitely say that, you know, being coachable is a choice. And it's not how good you are. It's really how good you want to be. I think that's the key thing. And you know, with Steph Curry, the warriors basketball player, Steve Kerr, when they asked Steve Korres what what made you know, Steph so good or what makes them so good? Because obviously, he's still playing is that, you know, he said that even though Steph might be the best player in the league right now, he just wants to keep keep on improving and getting better. And, again, it's that that scholar mentality, that that curiosity, you know, that hunger, that goal of coming to practice, and not being not focusing on the monotony of of another practice, but that that hunger, have a curiosity of what am I going to learn today? And, you know, those are the athletes that continue to get better. And, you know, you know, the Steph Curry's of this world LeBron James, all these incredible athletes. That's that's how they keep motivated is that they just want to keep getting better.
Paul Barnett 24:53
Allister, as always, you've taken as deep inside the mindset of some really elite performing people around the World. And thank you very much for joining us again, the books called Habits that make a champion. It's a terrific read, I'll put all the links to that and your, your social media feed, which I'm a big fan of in the shownotes. And look forward to getting you back on soon to talk about another element of elite performance.
Allistair McCaw 25:20
Paul, it's always an absolute pleasure. And again, I really love listening to the podcast, so, so keep up the great work.
Paul Barnett 25:27
Thanks Alysa