Bev Priestman Edit

Mon, 12/13 7:31PM • 25:41

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coach, people, players, new zealand, pandemic, bit, learned, team, big, sport, drives, world, values, reflect, criticism, feel, little bit, bravery, achieve, brave

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Bev Priestman

Paul Barnett 00:00

Good morning, Dave Pressman. Welcome to the great coach's podcast. How are you today?

Bev Priestman 00:05

Amazing, Paul, how are you?

Paul Barnett 00:07

I'm going okay. It's a bit deep, dark and dreary here in Bucharest. But of course, maybe you could tell us where you are in the world and what you've been doing so far today.

Bev Priestman 00:15

Yeah. So I mean, not so sunny Vancouver. It's a gorgeous place in the summer, but in the winter, it does rain a lot. So yeah, just start my workday really here. Ready, ready to tackle the day before a lovely well deserved break for Christmas.

Paul Barnett 00:28

Glad I could get a little bit of your time just before you have a break, because I know you've been in camp as well. So it's great to get this chance to talk to you. And maybe I'll also ask because some of our listeners won't know where that fantastic accent comes from. So maybe you could tell us about that as well. Yeah, so

Bev Priestman 00:43

originally born in the Northeast of England, a small town called concert which is actually famous for steelworks, but small working class town up north in England, but I've got a bit of a blended accent. Because as you'll probably unpick in this interview, have sort of traveled the world lived in different parts of the world. But I think that strong, thick northern accent is going to stay with me, Well,

Paul Barnett 01:08

sounds exactly like my dad. So I'm going to enjoy this conversation a lot. Maybe before we get on your journey, let's just start with some of the great coaches you've had experience with. There's John Herdman mo Marquis and Phil Neville, that I was able to pick up just through reading and researching. I'm sure there's many others you've met on your journey as well. But from this perspective, what is it you think that the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?

Bev Priestman 01:34

I think some of the great coaches one, they have a way of motivating and tapping something in everyone. They see something in everyone and make you feel that way. Certainly, John Herdman was my coach before he was my boss, and I work for him. And he definitely has this ability to make you feel on top of the world and make you feel like you've got huge potential and try and help you achieve that potential. And I just think like, yeah, for me, it's much more than X's and O's and the tactics. That's like an added bonus, I actually think it's the people's skills, the social emotional part of connecting with someone to try and help them perform on demand.[PB1] Because I think that's particularly in the arena that I'm in, that's my job is to help these players perform, when it really matters. We'll get

Paul Barnett 02:21

into that performance when it really matters in the Olympic gold medal as we go along. But maybe I'll start back at university, because you've got a Bachelor's of Science, with honors in science in football, which is a great combination, but knowing what you know, now, what do you wish they had taught you back then in university?

Bev Priestman 02:40

Yeah, I think I learned about muscle metabolism and everything. And I've not used it once. I think, I think for me, it's like the people part. Again, I'm in a business where you're leading people, you're trying to reach a potential, I actually think it's you can have all the degrees in the world. But I think in the modern world, you've got to be able to take a group of people with you, and you've got to inspire and push forward and break new barriers.[PB2] And I think, a university I because I wasn't part of the sports team, I think sport teaches you a whole lot of life lessons and values. But if I was just at university, and I just did my degree, I think you lack that people part, the leadership that work with people, and all the lessons that you learn through winning and losing, and all of them lessons to be

learned.

Paul Barnett 03:30

So they have in your early 20s, you abandon the idea of being a school teacher, and you move to New Zealand, on the side of the world to take up the role as development officer with New Zealand soccer must have been exciting, but perhaps also a little scary, you know, wondering what you learned about yourself, given that you just referenced life lessons, through that experience.

Bev Priestman 03:53

I actually think me go into New Zealand was one of the best things I did I think, why because it's a small country on the other side of the world. And what you learn in a country like that is a lot of innovation going on, because they can innovate, because they're not dealing with red tape and politics, you can influence people a lot easier. And then the second thing I would say and because of that I got my hands on a lot of things like I was diverse in my skill set that I think that is paying off now. And in me being able to lead sheep, tweak, change things because I've got that diverse experience. I think the other thing is a big fish in a small pond. So actually been in New Zealand and coming from England where you know, you be that small fish in the big pond. It actually filled me with a massive amount of confidence which I think you speak to a lot of people Yes, my wife she would say you've gotten not arrogance, you've got some of the highest level of confidence I've seen in probably female coaches. And I think some of that is born out of I was a big fish in a small pond and that just like it filled me with confidence. I got to try things I got to feel I got to, like I say, get my hands on a whole lot of things. And I just got out of my comfort zone, new culture, never a very, very different culture to what I had grown up with in my, in my small hometown. And so I think it just like diversified my experiences that ultimately set me well for where I'm at now.

[PB3]

Paul Barnett 05:20

It's also one of the most proud sporting nations in the world. And I guess, getting to see that up close with any sport. New Zealand just had this emotion and passion must have been just so wonderful as well.

Bev Priestman 05:32

Yeah. And I think they've got that underdog mentality. But yet, you look at the All Blacks, one of the most, they're serial winners. So I would say they punch above their weight in what they should achieve. And I think that relates a little bit to myself, I've always been motivated by achievement, things I shouldn't be able to do. And so yeah, I think that sport and culture that, like I see you mingling with coaches from different sports, that again, we aren't from football is the only sport maybe a bit of cricket, but very much ours football through and through. And then you go to New Zealand, and you see women's netball, rugby soccer, like the list goes on, and you're rubbing shoulders with other other sports. And you probably talking a little bit more about the how, of course, you're not just the what.

Paul Barnett 06:17

So I was reading, getting back to this house of coaching, I was actually reading with great interest, actually, when you said, and this is a quote, I spent the pandemic reinventing myself to be ready to be a senior head coach, and adjust happened, Canada was a great fit. So I'm really intrigued to know but what did you do in that time, that helped you prepare for this leadership position. So

Bev Priestman 06:41

to give a bit of context, so I probably at that point worked 13 years in the game full time and for anyone working in probably business sport, you're on a hamster wheel, it's not a 40 hour week, it's it's called Google major tournament review on to the next one, you don't get a chance to stop. And I've done in Canada before I've moved back to England that done probably about four rules in one, I was pretty burnt out, I went back to England and I was clear that I wanted to do one job do it well, and that was to work with senior players. And I did that as an assistant to Phil Neville, in any way, in the pandemic, it hit just as Phil sort of take a new direction, the FAA had gone a different direction, where their head coach and so I was sat there wondering, probably the lowest point in my career, because I have always had a purpose and knew where I was going. And I was on a path and very much I was like self doubt. And yeah, probably the lowest point in my career and then the pandemic hits. And in that moment, I've got to stop. And I got to reflect little things, listening to podcasts all the time walking the dog. And I think what I did is I locked myself in a room and started to articulate who I was as a coach, because I'd worked under John Redmond for nine years. And for anyone that works under a mentor, you copy a lot until you create and you become your own sort of coach. And then I've got this experience of working for Phil Neville, who was the complete opposite of John Bergman. He played for Sir Alex Ferguson, one of the greats for many, many years. So I got to see a different way of doing things. So in that pandemic, I locked myself in a room, I developed Slyke, who I am as a person, what are my values? What will my culture look like? How do I want to play. And so I articulated this and became really, really clear about who I am, what I was going to be about, should that first senior head coaching position come up, and obviously Canada that came calling from my previous time there, and I felt really ready, refreshed and clear to take on that position. [PB4] If you have

Paul Barnett 08:45

such drive, and you take such a deliberate approach to your own self development. However, I'd like to spin it around a little bit and ask you when it comes to the development of your staff and your players? Is there any particular methods that you've used, that have produced better results than others?

Bev Priestman 09:04

Yeah, I think like what I would say I have to be as a leader in any leader, I think you have to get your head above the clouds. So that can be ruin that can be whatever it is, that allows you to zoom out, like right now going into the holiday period. And the more sumed out I've been all year because I've been so operational. So I would say as a leader, my job is to get my head above the clouds. And to be able to do that I've got to have the right staff, the right players around me to allow that space to happen. And when I get my head above the clouds, it's a chance to slow down a little bit like I did in in lockdown and reflect like, what was the last two or what needs to be the messaging gone in the next two? What are the good questions that I need to ask this group or this group of staff to get them to reflect like I have and so I wouldn't say sort of professional development, personal development not so much. But I think my job is to ask the hard questions that sometimes The people are thinking and won't ask or just haven't had that chance to stop reflecting. And they're on the hamster wheel going around. And I've got to make sure as a head coach that I allow myself, the time to do that.[PB5]

Paul Barnett 10:13

Are there any killer questions or ones that you use regularly to lift that self awareness?

Bev Priestman 10:18

No, I wouldn't say so. Like, it's little things like, what is it the goddess on top? What's going to keep us on top? What's gonna stop us from winning? It's very open questions that I think you'll get a true honesty. And part of that is create an environment where people feel safe and comfortable, and to be able to see what they think. But then also an environment that pushes and challenges and drives a comfort zone, because I think when people get out of their comfort zone, you see a whole new level to what they can bring. So I would say just open questions, questions that take the brain to a spin on the top of the podium, most common dead last and preparing the brain for that and, and asking those hard questions.[PB6]

Paul Barnett 10:59

They've you coached that candidate team into gold, but you had them through many youth tournaments earlier on when you were in the development role in Canada. That was what you said to them in Tokyo, the CT Ma, I'd like to play it back to actually before I asked the question, this is the quote, you say, I did say to that group, that if we have the time of our life, we'll do well. And quote, he didn't say anything about hard work or dedication, but instead of focus on having the time of our life, why did you think that was the most important message to give at that time?

Bev Priestman 11:29

I think, Well, for me, the hard work and the dedication, that's a given I think anyone that is in high performance sport puts the shirt on. But that's a given, I wouldn't have selected them for the Olympics had that not been the case, I think what I realize is in big, big moments, right? In the Olympic Games, some players it's the first one for Christine Sinclair might have been a fourth one, but there's enough pressure there. enough pressure enough scrutiny. My job is to lighten that and like I say, provide an environment where they can perform on demand. [PB7] And then the second thing I would say, and this is something I learned under working with fill out, I've been in many, many major tournaments, and I've always come back, haven't lost weight, exhausted, you know, you get to that third, fourth, fifth week on the road. And you did, I went to the World Cup in 2019. What I learned about myself is I had the time in my life, and I've felt the best I've ever felt the lightest, and I would say I've performed the best I've ever performed. So I've learned that about myself, to get the best out of myself, I have to have a lightness, I have to have an enjoyment. And I think like translate that into the players like they have to feel they have to love coming to camp and be themselves bring their personality has been environment where they can thrive. [PB8] Because only we only get them for, let's say 10 days, every month, every six weeks, they're working hard day in day out outside of that environment. We've just got to create that environment to get the best out of them. And I felt them having the time of their lives together. Enjoying being together particularly in a pandemic where you couldn't leave the hotel room right you were you were in a hotel, you could only leave to go train and come back. It wasn't like a normal Olympics. And so I knew for this team to survive, they had to love being together and, and enjoy little things like Mario Kart competitions and things that we're going to get the best out of them.

Paul Barnett 13:24

This topic, this this concept of joy, to lighten the mood and to give people energy comes up time and time again. So thank you for sharing that. In that gold medal match that she famously won by beating Sweden in a penalty shootout. What did you learn about handling pressure from seeing your team in that moment?

Bev Priestman 13:44

It was weird actually can't recall feeling that much pressure and all that's crazy that the biggest amount of pressure I felt was in the Brazil game. We went to penalty shootout which was the the quarter final to and the reason why is because if we did go out and knock Brazil game, we couldn't achieve our vision which was to change the color of the metal. And remember, in that shoot, they'll feel that more than ever, like Christine Sinclair missed a penalty which is unheard of. And I'm sat there and was stood there on the sideline thinking this cannot be and I didn't know at the time whether it will be a last tournament or not. I've since learned and thank God that she probably won't go again to the world for cookbook. I remember thinking this cannot be her last last go for what she's given this country. So Brazil, I felt the pressure Sweden I made sure so we beat us for the first time in 21 years to achieve our goal of changing the color of the metal. And my big thing as a coach was that can't be it right? Everyone was like wow, we did it. We beat the US which is a little bit like Australia, New Zealand. With beat the US. We've changed the color of metal. We've achieved our vision, but then I'm like, we're off to a final of Olympic Games. We'll never get this moment back. So what I did is, is I actually do The players the day off in the village, I couldn't have done the opposite. I could have done more meetings, more tactics more. And I really a little bit like what I was saying before, lighten the load. I had the best day of my whole Olympics, I had a nap. Longest nap I've had in the Olympics, I went on a massage chair, I made sure that I felt light because I knew the energy that would have been taken from us to beat the US took us everything. We needed to get that back. And so I think in the in the final, it almost didn't feel like a final I know that sounds weird. But it's because we didn't have any fans in the stands. It was a bit area was a bit so that pressure actually for me personally, of course, I was like on it and I wanted to win and all the rest of it. But you know, penalties. One we practice the more than any of the team, we put a whole lot of work into it. So I felt prepared, and what will be will be and that's kind of what I felt but the elation when Julia girl saw hit the ball in the back of the net. I think in that moment, I was like, oh my god, we did it.[PB9]

Paul Barnett 16:00

It did look pretty excited on the video afterwards. Yeah. Actually talking about you, Christine Sinclair, you kept in when she was reflecting on the team's trial in Tokyo, she said, view, she had instilled this belief and this bravery that maybe we hadn't had in the past. And we lived throughout the course of the entire tournament. So building self belief in others is not an easy thing to do. If someone was listening and wanted to raise that level of belief in a team or an individual, what would you advise them to do?

Bev Priestman 16:31

There's a bit of backstory there. So I talked about before in the in COVID, that I sort of defined who I was, and one of my values and links to my story, really, you know, going in New Zealand, out my comfort zone, Canada young age, was bravery, one of my values. And what I did is in my first camp with the team, I knew for me personally, this jigsaw piece that was missing from a bronze team to a gold was self belief. And so I Yeah, got them to read the values on a scale of one to 10. And I knew the bravery for me personally, my opinion, this team would have rated at the lowest we we need to be braver. So anyway, the players, the staff, no new news to me was that it was the lowest rated. So that became the sort of mantra for that Olympic metal was, we were going to be the bravest team and what the brave look like and we picked it and ask them like what was the bravest this team's been why when where, and essentially on that journey over the nine months and actually was six months really from from my first camp, the players came up with a slogan, it was rush, rise up step higher, and rise up for them meant turning up in a big moment, right, which is bringing your own identity. So if I think a Deseret Scott and my team, she's the human, the big tackles in the big moments, that's who she is, that was her rise up. But the step higher part was born from bronze to gold. So stepping higher meant doing something more than you've ever done. So every player had their own step higher targets, which was a bravery target, because it's a sum of parts, right? Every 11 players are braver than they've ever been, you'll get a braver team[PB10] .

And so that bravery part was just individually it was process driven, I didn't want the outcome to be we're gonna get a gold medal, it was behaviors that I knew would improve and make the team step higher. So I think it just was celebrating regularly after every session, every game, I would highlight brave, brave decisions, brave conversations, brave actions on the pitch, to just constantly reinforce the confidence and drive in the team to do more. And so players could take risks, because I think to be brave, you've got to take risks. And really, Bravery is an act and it's acting in spite of fear, it's okay to have fear, but acting in spite of fear, and that was some of the conversations that we had as a group[PB11]

Paul Barnett 18:56

are, it's a great story. Thank you for sharing it. I hadn't seen that acronym rush in any of the material. I use preparing for today. So that's fantastic. I love it. Actually getting back to this brave conversation thing. I'd like to drill into that a little bit, because I read where you actually talk about wanting the pressure and scrutiny that comes with a head coach role. Yeah. But when there is inevitably feedback or criticism that goes with it, do you have any particular ways of dealing with it that you found more helpful than others?

Bev Priestman 19:26

Yeah, I think I've surprised myself because I remember I got the job. My wife said, Whatever you do, don't be too nice, because I'm genuinely just a nice, nice person. And so I think what I've learned is under pressure, you get the best out of me. I'm a little bit like and might be a little bit of ADHD, I'm not sure but I'm a last minute calm, you get the best out of me. And then moments when it has to be done tomorrow when it's a big assignment, it would have been at university, whatever that looks like. I've made some big tough decisions that actually have surprised myself in this last sort of, period, but have, you know, obviously there's always criticism, but I think it actually drives me it can do one or two things to people, it can affect their self confidence. But I never want to feel that criticism again. And so it drives me to find another level. It's like this Mexico, too. We just had, we missed a lot of players, but people won't know that and altitude and all these things. But I'll make sure that that never happens again, that we never get beat of Mexico, because it's like, I've learned about myself actually enjoy. I actually hate losing more than I enjoy winning. And I think that's the driver me as I don't like, I'll make sure I'll do anything to make sure we don't lose.[PB12]

Paul Barnett 20:38

For Tony, if you are comfortable enough to share a piece of criticism that has driven you to the success that you've enjoyed recently.

Bev Priestman 20:46

Well, I think one of the lowest points of my career at youth level i We didn't qualify the under 20. Team, we lost on penalties to Mexico at the time you just on a wheel right? And okay, well, it was this it was that, again, when you take a step out of your role you reflect and I remember I was locked in my room, I was living tactics on my computer, but I wasn't connecting with people, I was a five year version of Bev Priestman, that now refuses to be a computer coach, that's sort of the joke in my stuff. I'm like, no, like, I need to have my head above the clouds, I need to have that clarity. [PB13] And so there was a whole load of criticism with that. And inadvertently, I've gone away, I've got better, I've come back, and I've won a gold medal. So I think just some of them moments to define you. But you don't actually know it in the moment, you probably get defensive, and, you know, keyboard warriors and all of this sort of stuff. But actually, it drove me to work harder to be better. And here I am with that gold medal hungrier than ever to make sure it wasn't just a one off for this team.

Paul Barnett 21:47

If I have another great quote from you, this one is particularly good. And I think I'll read it try to read it slowly and correctly, because it's one I was sharing with my daughters earlier. And they thought it was good, too. And you say, for young, aspiring female coaches or players who are coming out of the game and want to get into coaching. I do think having a female role model as Canada's coach, I do think that's important. Could you tell me about one of your role models? And what you learned from them?

Bev Priestman 22:16

Yeah. So if I talk about the impact of the female, I think I've realized, since coming back from the Olympics, the importance of having a female do well on the stage, I don't think are valued as much as a half. But I know that a lot of female coaches now see in the dream, but then you don't see it happen. I think my more Molly, who you know, when I was at university, she was at Evanston, ladies and like I said, I'm from a small town, I was the only girl who played on my team and all the rest of it. For the first time, I got to see more Molly use of professional coach at Everett, ladies. And I went down to the training sessions six weeks in a row, put a cone down, and eventually she got me involved. But I think for the first time, I got to see a strong female who was making a profession out of being a soccer coach. And that was obviously many years ago. It's very different now. But that definitely inspired me to say, Listen, actually, I can make a career out of this because as a kid grown up, I'd only ever seen Kevin Keegan, Alex Ferguson, like the men's Premier League, male coaches that that was all I'd seen. And for the first time in my career, I got to be around, watched learn around a female coach. And I think that gave me that kick to say, I'm going to be a full time professional coach. And of course, here I am.[PB14]

Paul Barnett 23:35

The gold medal. If I could take you back and introduce you to that young girl in County Durham, who was the only girl on the football team, with all the boys, knowing what you know, now, what would you tell her?

Bev Priestman 23:48

Dream big? I think I have absolutely no regrets in any career path I've taken but I think one thing I've always done is dream big. Yeah, that that would absolutely I wouldn't change a thing. It would be to dream big. Because I think you dream big. You have passion. You ultimately then passion means hard work. And you work hard for whatever you do. And you're you're born achieving your dreams.[PB15]

Paul Barnett 24:10

If you've been really generous with the time given that you're about to take off and enjoy your break. So maybe I could finish with just one final question and perhaps a quote to give it context. You say things can be difficult for female coaches. It's never a straight path. There are always obstacles. But if you're passionate about what you do, and you dream big, sometimes good things come your way. So I guess in the distant, distant future, when you do retire, what's the legacy Your hope you've left as a coach?

Bev Priestman 24:38

I think I would like to two things have done things I shouldn't have been able to do. So Young. I achieved X, Y and Zed that's in me, it's where I'm a bit of what you would see where I'm from as I'm a bit of a scrapper, I want to fight for things that that I shouldn't be able to do. But I think the most important thing for me is I want to have left A footprint on the people that I've worked with, I want to have impacted them not just as soccer players as staff as practitioners as people because I think what I've learned my mom and dad do hang down values and then values live with you forever. I think I would like to have impacted the way that the people I work with see the world. I've seen things in people I've helped people try and achieve their potential. I think that's more important to me than anything else.

[PB16]

Paul Barnett 25:26

I think potential and helping people get there is a wonderful way to finish. So I'd like to thank you for your time. My evening your morning over there in Vancouver and wish you all the best for the rest that you're going to enjoy over the holiday season.

Bev Priestman 25:39

Thanks a lot.