Bill Sweetenham Edit
Sun, 2/20 8:37PM • 1:06:01
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, athlete, bill, people, coaching, question, training, called, compromise, world, talent, week, michael, pool, leadership, swimmer, years, michelle, performance, result
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Michael Bohl, Tom Vandenbogaerde, Gustavo Roldan, David Pyne, Bill Sweetenham
Paul Barnett 00:00
Good morning, Bill Sweetnam and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Bill Sweetenham 00:03
Good morning, Paul. Happy to be here. I look forward to the next two hours.
Paul Barnett 00:08
I'm very much looking forward to it as well. And of course, you've got some of your coaching luminaries or assistants or peers, I should probably say in the background, and I'm sure we're going to hear from them as well. But Bill, can I start with a really simple question, where are you in the world today? And what have you been up to so far?
Bill Sweetenham 00:24
At my home on the Gold Coast, a place called Paradise point. And it is paradise. Michael just lives down the road from me says just Tom, I'm in Australia, mainly because not many of us get the chance to leave Australia these days. But we're all very keen.
Paul Barnett 00:39
Well, on a dark minus seven day here in Bucharest. I'm very much looking forward to hearing all about life up there in Queensland and some of the stories you've got from poolside over all the years that you've been coaching. But Bill, could I start with something really simple? Well, simple in one way, but not another. I guess I'd like to name check some of the great coaches you've had experience with North Thornton, Eddie Reese, Don Gambrill, Michael bowl, who's here listening today. And even I could see boxing's Angelo Dundee. And of course, before we were talking about Eddie Jones, so there's some good names in there and some good experience. From this perspective, Bill. What is it you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Bill Sweetenham 01:21
Oh, guy. I met Angelo Dundee at an airport. I listened intently, because, by chance, on one of my flights back from working in Argentina, I was sitting beside this huge mountain of a man. And he was a boxer, famous for Rumble in the Jungle and introduce yourself. We had a great four or five hour talk and discussion. And we talked about the great boxing coaches of the world. And the cause, Angelo Dundee, and then I got to meet a couple of the boxes. And they all spoke so highly of Angelo, that I took the opportunity to travel and meet with him and share some ideas on the back end of his life. And he was not enthused too much, and to share time with me, but he did. And he gave me a great quote, he said, never ever hop in the ring. Unless your preparation has been superior to all others, regardless of any differentials, high or low of talent, and what great words I learned to live with, from a man that had nothing to do with point, but who I'd pursued to gain knowledge from, and I still remember those days, and value, his words of wisdom. [PB1]
If you haven't achieved, then you have no right to have a an opinion. And you haven't got vision that you have no chance of being a great man, manager or leader. So these coaches and these great people and honesty, trust, achievement and vision, in performance ahead of opinion. And they're all exceptionally fast thinkers. They're prepared to take risks, though great risk takers. They looked at something a evaluated, they did the pros and cons. And then they took the risks. See most people talk about risk or don't are not prepared to take. They all had an enquiring mind. They all wanted to know how it worked. What were the ways that could be done differently? Was there an opportunity to get a winning point of advantage by applying the skills that you had to get an inquiring mind ahead of the opposition? They all employed good, right and best people. They all appreciated good people. They wanted to work with good people. They wanted right people fit for the position and best operators to have. [PB2]
And I've been lucky, lucky or have been selective. I've had a life for working with good right. And best people. And the people that are sitting in that meeting today are all good, right and best people. I don't work. I have no tolerance to work with. anyone these days who was not good, right and Best Buy last 20 years, I've seen my tolerance levels drop. And I don't have the tolerance anymore to work with anyone who's not honest, can't be trusted, hasn't got an achievement record and doesn't have an a vision for the future and can't think fast. And these great coaches all had that. I think Michael has it today. Think Tombi has it? Fred definitely hasn't. The David hasn't. They are selective in who they work with. In other words, he don't want to waste time with people or situations that can't be on a return on that investment. So time is money. So these people I pursued any Ries is probably the best man manager in the world or swimming today. North thorn was very similar. At dawn gamble was exceptional human being in the area of that as well as Angela dandy. I just thought they were great leadership. The issue is only ever earned. You can't give to leadership. You can't get leadership from a ballot box. We have no leaders in world politics today are very, you can't inherit leadership, by longevity who's been in the job for years. Let's give him a leadership role. Working out he's done a leadership course, waste of time. These things are not leadership, leadership comes down to achievement, they've done it. And they have a vision for an improved future. So their visionary based on achievement,
Paul Barnett 06:41
build this idea of achievement is the very reason why we have the podcast looking at great coaches that have been on the field of battle and lead people towards
Bill Sweetenham 06:50
a battle and look fire in the eye and defeated. You have to be on the field of battle. All the great military leaders of the world are people who overcome failure to provide victory for their armies and navies. So I think that's important.
Paul Barnett 07:09
Bill, you were lucky enough to receive a Churchill scholarship, when you were just sitting out as a coach and allowed you to go to the US and study for free. How did that experience shape you as a young coach or rather just as a young human being?
Bill Sweetenham 07:23
That I got my Churchill fellowship, I was due to start my job at the Australian Institute of Sport, I got a fellowship that was for six months. And I knew that wasn't enough. So out of my own pocket, and I had very little put in an extra six months of salary and work to extend it out to 12 months. So I went and studied in the United States, I studied strength and conditioning. And I studied speed, because I had very little knowledge of either subject. So I knew that I had to do then, of course, Eddie Reese was one of the coaches and Greg Troy and don't gamble. No, don't don't councilman. I had a great relationship with Doc, which gave me what I felt was an unfair advantage over my opposition to coaches. I've done things that they weren't willing to do a few years prior to that. Laurie Lars, when spent 12 months in America worked with George Haynes. So I thought perception, and that he's done that. And Lockwood outsell Tim. So I wanted to go and have a look at how these coaches operated. They all had something different to offer. But they all had those core values, honesty, trust, achievement, vision, and fast thinkers. And I knew then that I needed to upgrade myself in my coaching, not so much my training young coaches come to me today. And they say, tell me how to be a great coach. So now you sit over in the stands, and you watch and you observe and you make notes. And when you think you've got an All right, you come and tell me how to become a good coach, a great coach, from your observations. I believe that people today are much better copies than we give them credit for. They have an ability to copy. So I wanted all the countries I work with to have all the athletes that I work with, to have at least part of that difference between opinion and fact I wanted that difference. I want to know that difference.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 09:33
Who you went to your first Olympics in 1976. And you describe the experience as a shockwave. Can you tell us about it and what it taught you?
Bill Sweetenham 09:42
Well, I'm breaking out in a sweat talk when we come to the subject. This was my worst ever experience. But perhaps my most defining experience. I had a swimmer called Stephen Holland. Stephen was an unbelievable talent and a good person and I was a young coach. I was 25 at the time, I started code 24. Actually, when I started coaching Steven, I knew nothing. I thought I knew everything. But I knew very little. And I coached even the way Laurie had coached him before me. And the way I'd been coached and trained in my life, unfortunately, are up against the best in the world. And we went into that battle with what we thought was her belly, which wasn't the disadvantage. We trained in a little 20 meter pool, in an animal farm at macro event, and had all animals around us in cages. And every morning when to clear the duck poop off the side of the desk, to get in the pool. And that was when Tracy Wickham come and spend some time with herself and Stephen, led into to Montreal, we had absolutely nothing wasn't for Stephens brilliance as an athlete, I'm sure we wouldn't have even got the bronze medal. The Olympics went past me, luckily, are sitting in the grandstand, because I've got row tickets with a man called Peter diamond. And Peter diamond had five summers on that 76 Olympic team, all medal winners for the US and account got me he said, Bill, I've watched you, I've listened to you come, but I'm gonna go and meet doc counselor, I want you to come and I'm sure doc has something to offer you. I probably had the best three days in my life, listening to Peter Dale and and Councilman, fast tracking knowledge and information and experience to me. But I knew that I'd had a very severe experience with this just came not we over to keep going, I had the choice to get up, dust yourself off, and try and recover from this situation. So I still live with the experience of a Montreal, Stephen Holland. And what I assume is defeat, or what I've termed is defeat and defeat. It taught me many, many, many lessons about victories and success and winning, I knew for after one funeral, I walked out. And I thought I'm never ever going to be in this position. Again, I am going to place in every battle that I fight, every challenge that I face, every field of chaos that I encountered, I'm going to place a bandage in the path of my swimmer, not not failure. So from that point on, I always had a philosophy of putting a bandage first, for the athletes that I coached, I wanted them to have an advantage in battle, not a disadvantage. And myself and Steven winning that battle. The only advantage we're have was Stephens talent. And the disadvantage we had was basically everything else. So the competition, training partners a lot. We didn't have any of the advantages of the opposition.
Paul Barnett 12:57
Bill, I have this amazing quote from you. I'd like to read it before I ask the question. You say the experience of the coach must always be in advance the athletes talent. But the desperate and obsessive motivation and attitude must be the same. And I'm always intrigued by this because you coach so many people at one time. So how do you maintain this obsessive motivation and attitude? When you've got so many swimmers that you're leading?
Bill Sweetenham 13:24
I want to show you something, Paul, you can have a look at this. I can say steel ruler, got it. When I first went to England, our first day in the office or center, the girls, the golfers girls, I need one of these I always have. And I've disappointed myself that I hadn't brought the ruler with me and the girl send to me and build to lady that does our ordering for stock is offset. And therefore we can't order any new supplies from the stationery department until she comes back. I said where is the stationery department? She said is down in the main office at English ruin. So I rang them. And they said look, this is on the exact form. We can't go and get them. I said to them, I got the girl in the office was Come with me. We went down to the stationery department. I gave her $200 200 pound. I said now tell me where the shop is where I can buy the rules. She gave it to me. I went and bought 1214 of these rules. 50 centimetres long wheel solid steel came back and gave her the receipt. I said now you don't have to get the rules. You just have to give me the money back for what I've just paid. That's an easy job, boy, you don't need the stationery girl. And she said why in God's name? Do you want the rulers to their mark? Every centimeter. I said I want them to measure success of everybody in the office. So I'm giving the first rule to you, everything you do in the office, I want you to write on efficiency, one to 50. If you get up any 4849 is very inefficient. If you're down here near one and two, you're very efficient. Do the maths yourself. Now I want you to do the maths on your ruler, how efficient you were on getting these rulers for me, remember, I'm the head of the Office, I'm the boss. And all he said to me is no, this is too hard. This copy down there can't be done. That doesn't fit my major. So I gave everybody in the office, the subtle British swimming is going to be judged on the males, and the performance and what you do, how are you going to be judged in the office, what judgment you're going to use, I don't want to come round and judge you all the time. I want you to judge yourselves. So I want you to put this ruler on your desk, and everything you do in the office, great yourself on efficiency, one out of 50 Every time you rank yourself in the top five, I want you to come to me and tell me as your senior off sourcing senior person, I want you to come knock on my door, say Bill, I just did x, y and t and I've valued my performance in in the top two or three out of 50. And tell me about it.
I want to know how successful you are. I want to live and understand your heart and mind when it comes to how you measure your success in the office. I don't want to hear about your failures, we've all got them. So wherever I operate them, everybody gives a 50 centimeters to a ruler. And I asked them to measure their success, you have to have experience experience based knowledge. As coaches, most of us learn to train athletes, before we learn to coach athletes. And that's the wrong way around. I do many of my era do. You have to learn to coach before you learn to train, coach your mind, train the body, you have to learn to touch the mind before you try and the physical. So coaching is NECA training his physical neck down. And if you can't coach, then your training will be wasted. So the knowledge of the coach, if it's going to get a result, a positive significant result must be in advance of the talent of the athlete. Now talent, what is talent, talents accelerated rate of learning, coaching is accelerated rate of acquiring knowledge. So you want a partnership between the coach and the athlete, I just leave every competition I've ever been doing in 50 years, there's a hell of a lot of them. And I swim every race with every athlete that I coach, every time an athlete that I coach stands on the blocks, I swim every stroke, I go down the pool with him, I swim visually, with every stroke that young person takes, I know what they represent. And now I've tasked them to come to 100% training requirements. I've asked him to commit to 100%. And therefore I have to respect that I want to respect that I want to acknowledge that. [PB4]
And therefore, at the end of a meet, I read my performance today as a coach on the least talented athlete and the least successful athlete in the team. I don't judge it. Well, as good Tracy, we can break a world record. Rebecca Adlington, just one Olympic gold medal. I look at the athlete, the talent who didn't get the reward that they deserve. They didn't get achieve what they were deserving. And that's I feel for them. And I want to live by that experience, not the not the RE gifted experience, or the super patella. It's just the intelligent coaches who will do that they will judge themselves on the least performing athlete in their team, not the least talented. Because that's not an excuse. Talents are given in the high performance arena. Talent is a given. You don't take your talent to the Olympics, who hasn't done 100% training hasn't attended 100% competitions. And if you do that if you take them to your own little district competitions, that's your fault. You live with that. But I can't I can't take people to a competition who don't deserve to be there or get a result tip coaches all the time, or they try and call in but they don't come to training. So why have we got them at this competition? Why don't you bring them here? If your opinion of them that low, that they don't come to training, they don't have 100% attendance and they don't give it their best. It's about optimal performance for the individual ahead of talent. Everybody's got some talent to have a degree of talent. Your job is up a mentor, a coach, teacher, is to draw that out of the young person, I want that young person to hop out of the pool and say, coach, that's as good as the kitchen. I have done everything I could. And that's my best ever result. Because everybody eventually has to live with a large performance on a scoreboard that tells you how good you been how good your courage, but you can't change that. Very few people in industry and corporate world can do that. The athlete has to the athlete has to look at the scoreboard, eventually, inside whatever's on that scoreboard. That's me, and you have to know that you gain them. [PB5]
When every athlete retires. I go in and look in the mirror and ask myself, did I get the best out of that athlete? No excuses, I can't say, did I get the best out of that athlete to only come six sessions a week. But I get the best out of the athletes who really didn't draw out, I can't do that I can't rationalize that. I have to go in and look in the mirror, and 50 years of i 50 years of experience. And so did I achieve without rationalization without excuses. without compromise, give that athlete the best result. And if I can't do that, then I file whether for the highest talent in the pool, or the least talent, provided, they're both committed to the training system that you've asked them to do. So whenever I fall short, it hurts it leaves us below.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 21:33
Below, I want to pick up this theme of scars and failure. And I want to explore it to compromise which you talk about a lot in your presentations and your books and so forth. And you talk a lot I'm going to paraphrase the quote before I give you the question. But you say there's nothing like the pain of seeing a young person who's dreamed of everything, but change and start again, there's nothing like the pain of seeing a young person who's dreamed of achieving something, someone who spent every waking moment working towards their goal, someone you really care about having the realization of that dream within their grasp, and then taken away because of your failure because of your compromises as a coach. And then you go on to say, every time you compromise in coaching, it bites you in the backside. I wanted to turn the question around and say when it comes to advising other coaches, parents, leaders, whoever it is to avoid compromise in their daily actions, what would you tell them to focus on?
Bill Sweetenham 22:29
I tell them to focus on daily performance. You can't have 100% Success 100% of the time, but you've got to have a majority of the time. [PB7] Let me give you an example. I touched a great girl, great young lady, who's the godmother of my eldest child, a girl by the name of Asklepios. Michelle was a hell of an athlete. At 26 years of age, I've coached soccer long time. We went to the Olympic Games, the Los Angeles. Michelle would always a training, breathe inside the flags all the time. She would breathe just before the flags and inside the flags. And I hassle Michelle like this no tomorrow. So the shell is going to cost you there's a price to pay for that. While at the 84 Olympics, the donor free breath, just outside the flags and just inside the flags, and went from second to fourth. It hurt. It hurt. I thought I'm responsible because I thought it was going to ruin my friendship with this young lady. 2627 years of age. I backed off. I said now, I'm not going to keep going on that. This is so I talk to Michelle portly in the 200 medley and she got a silver medal. And never breathe, never took a breath for the last 25 meters. And the feeling of that was much greater. Whenever myself and Michelle get together regardless of all wheelchair which would medals, Commonwealth medals, pan back medals. We don't discuss them. We discuss the one we lost. I don't say her the one we lost. I take responsibility. And accountability for that is mine. It belongs to me as well as her. I compromised in the training pool because of my friendship with Michelle to let him get away with breathing just inside and outside the flags we saw this year, the greatest one of the great mile 100 meter freestyle us for this country ever in the last 25 years. In fact the last 20 meters to two breaths and went from first to ally and the pricing in the meantime for Australia went from winning the gold medal tally to losing that performance. Tell me that doesn't hurt A coach probably doesn't know that happened up, did he probably be hurting or just say I'm happy with the silver medal? I can't be happy with that. I can't be happy with a compromise performance. That's going to keep you a compromised outcome for that athlete. Rebecca Adlington. I took Rebecca to the meet in France. And she had a terrible meet. Didn't get over myself, Bill furnace. And this young lady sat in a room where I said, I want to know, Rebecca, what it did in the room today. Those tears from her there was tears from a coach. We finally after several hours, come out with the solution. The Olympics, pro Becker Ellington went from second to first in the last stroke, because she didn't breathe. And Katie Hoff did. Katie Hoff loose with a self inflicted fire. And Rebecca Reddington lives with self inflicted success, like a choice. Which one do you want? The coach watching that? The American Coach, I don't think he's coached ever again. Because they're hurting so badly. I was involved with coaching a girl called Debbie Flintoff King at the Olympics. And I work with her and a coach working. And Debbie would run several times a week with a backpack on full of sand. And she had two hills near our home. And she ran up both these hills. And it was just brutal. To watch her do this. There's nothing soft or nice about it. It was just brutal. But she wanted to do it. She came up with the scale. And she did it twice a week, she had named those two hills after the East German and the West is to his German girls who were ahead of a poet Dr. cheats at the hurdles. In the rubbish. I went down. And then with Debbie played on there, he said to me, I want to dairy. She said, Bill, I know I've won, I can't lose, I couldn't lose. Because how I've tried. I just know I want differences. She trained so that she can't be beaten. And that's everybody has to try. You have to prepare. So you can't be beaten. And sure enough, after about an hour, the result Tamia there, we won that event in the narrowest margin in Olympic history. Now it's my version of Olympic history, she won that gold medal. That's what I that's I want athletes that I coach to have that attitude, and inspiration and aspirations so that I can coach them correctly.
Whether you're winning the school 50 meter freestyle, or you're winning the Olympic gold medal, makes no difference. Anyone that fails, because of lack of discipline, because of my coaching influence. It's my fault. I accept responsibility and accountability for that I don't look for excuses, or don't associate blame. And remember, a reason is an excuse, and no excuse. There's a reason. So I'm uncompromising. [PB8]
In that part of my life, I grew up in a family where they had a very strict, not so pleasant father, where there was no, there was only yes or no, nothing in between. And there was only right or wrong. I haven't been able to shape that thought process ever in my life. So for me, is yes or no. Bill, did you get 100% in your exam? No. So I couldn't say but I missed two days in school or sick God, it was yes or no. Bill. Did you get it right? No, there was no nothing in between yes or no,
Paul Barnett 28:57
Bill. You talk a lot about your father and and I want to come to that later on and talk a little bit about how that experience shaped you but you talk a lot about compromise and thoughts and you were referencing in their coaching being from the neck up and I've heard you use the Marcus Aurelius quote a few times life is what our thoughts make us. Why does this mean so much to you?
Bill Sweetenham 29:18
Because if you look in my pocket, you will see a yellow pen and a greenlit and pen and you'll see a pen with a blue base. But planners colors, green, everything is good. Blue, blue skies. Everything is good. Yellow color, the sun, everything is good. You'll never see colors with me of black or red. Red's the color of dangerous fire. Black is the color of the devil. I want to surround myself with people who think they're great thinkers. [PB9]
And everybody in this reading today is a great thinker. And as you know I read to you about this. This is a reason I wanted these people present, because they are the great thinkers of worldschooling. And all those people we mentioned earlier, Mel Marshall, Mel Marshalls famous quote, was build or build sweetener, probably from good to great, but there are a lot of tears in between. I said to Michelle, I said there were Melanie, I said, Melanie, do you realize those two years you're talking about one mine, not yours. Taking someone from good to great. There's a lot of tears. There's a lot of, I want to know how you think it's not what you know. It's how you think and how you present process thoughts and thinking that makes the difference. Olympic champions don't just happen, because they're nice people, and they're friendly, and they're lovable. It happens because I determine their software rating. They are selfish, and they are drivers of their thoughts. If you don't think winning, you can never be a winner. It won't just happen for you. You might be successful, but you won't be aware that winners live the difference. Champions know the difference.
Paul Barnett 31:11
Bill, you referenced your father, your upbringing, by your own description of his poor it was in Mount iser, you have built this energy and self belief in yourself that is carried you all around the world. And you've had great success in doing that with athletes too, and other coaches, some of the people that are listening in now and are on this call with us. But if you had to build self belief in someone else, someone who's not an Olympic athlete, someone who's in your family, but needs help, where would you start? And what would you do?
Bill Sweetenham 31:45
So good question, and pretty easy for me. First of all, in your training programs, if you are related to swimming to start with, I always try the curveball, but I never let the curveball Wait. I'll say to my coach, coach or team coach, sir afternoon, I'm going to do this, I want you to pick up the pieces and then tell the athlete when I first as a young swimmer from Mount iser. I went down and train was gone COVID awful experience initially, Don put me on the blocks. As overweight, I had a small window behind it and said last year you swam 110 for the 100 Butterfly as an age group from your one year old. So you should have improved two seconds, I want you to swing one eight for the 100 Butterfly course, how to shake hadn't trade as well. 120 he abused the hell out of me. I did about 5100 Butterflies progressively getting slower. With poor technique in each one. Don kicked me out of the program. To go back to mount iser, there's no room here, you haven't done so what over packed, but done behind the scenes, sent one other senior throws around to eat with me. As soon as someone sit down at dawn when you got to eat and have more courage to the left you have more commitment, you're not going to win on your first attempt you're gonna win because of your persistence. And if you come from that it should have persisted. So the next time I went back, he not never bothered to acknowledge that it came here. He just gave me a training session a week later feeling more fatigued and worse than I was the week before. But we back up on the blocks to do with one 100 Butterfly you got to do one night, we worse result than the week before because I was tired and fatigued and nourished because are staying at his home. And he put a chain around the fridge, one of those our lever fridge and drilled a hole in it. So I could only open the fridge about I think I could see all the good food in there. But I couldn't get my hand on it. So virtually starved myself for a week idolizes nothing else. Finally, after about 10 or 12 weeks, I found the one eight. He knew that he knew what the one eight was the national record for the 100 Butterfly. So I didn't. So I had her learning from adversity situation.
I asked Nelson Mandela, I got to meet Nelson Mandela. I said, What did you learn? When you had your time at Robben Island? What was the lessons that you learned? He said, Bill, I learned leadership. I learned that I had to be in charge of myself, mind and my body. I learned through poverty, through chaos that my character could develop my own style of leadership. And I've toured the world talking to the world's greatest leaders. I've never to this day, met a leader who learned their skills from a leadership course just didn't happen. They learned this hills, from poverty, adversity, chaos, and their ability to fight, fight hard. So I always take an Athlon put them in a non winning situation, a situation where they can't win. And watch how much they struggle, I want to see their ability to struggle against the odds are when they're doing that I get, I teach us a value of 3213, and your three competitions at your level of competency to below your level of competency where you expect to win. And then one, which is way, way out of your level of competency. And then in that one you see who struggles who fights, who finds a way to gain result. And then you build a relationship of trust and respect on those pieces of adversity that you for what a better word stage, through your coaching staff, or through other athletes on the team. It becomes a team effort to build competence, character, and attitude. And if you haven't got competence and character and attitude, you life is going to be worth little, you're not going to succeed in anything. So therefore, my job is a mental psychologist coach. And I think on this subject, I think I'm the best psychologist, for every athlete I touch. I want to understand the heart mind of every athlete. And I want to know how they respond to each situation. [PB10]
So I think I don't know whether I've answered the question well enough. But when I work with people, I can't stand it. But people coaches say to me, they can't do it, they just can't do it. They can do it. People can do anything. And they can do everything you ask them. If you put it in the right perspective. If you place it in the right situation, young people have unbelievable talent and character that we don't even yet touch the surface on in terms of understanding. We we know and you're going to how are your daughters both 15 and 11. Right, you're going to learn with them and teach them performance no matter what is it is by using sport education. Your job as a parent is to teach competence, character and belief. And if you can do that, you will have just an unbelievable reward. At the end of the line. i My goal is to take athletes from lowness swim all the way through to late they get married, or they get their degree in their profession. I want to take the journey the whole way with them. I don't have taken. I've watched
Paul Barnett 37:42
a lot of footage in preparing for today. And what I find unique about your communication style is you just mentioned, you think you're the greatest psychology psychologist virtue ethics, I see you 90% of your communication that I watched, was you asking questions not telling? It's very different. And it's quite pronounced. Where did this come from?
Bill Sweetenham 38:05
If you asked even Holland, he will say, I did a lot of telling it. Since then. I've learned to ask questions. Can we do this better? Is there a better way? Not an easier way? Is there a better way to achieve this outcome? Can we do it in a in a different manner? What is it going to take for you to meet these goals? Are your goals? I'm only here to help. Can we do it better than killing? Now, I'm not going to compromise tailors. Whatever you say your goals are. That's where the line in the sand is. So I'm going to design programs to be on this long side of the line in the sand. If you if you go past that, that your decision. I myself and Dennis personally, in our first years at the IAS and Michael bowl will understand this route. British power. Got the list of the worst who were on the team. The least discipline was a young man called David O Bell, one of my swimmers. So he wrote the list of rules that get a David and apply them to the team. So he took the lowest common denominator. First afternoon average scientists and they all tried it. I went out to the pool. He is in the middle of the pool using the F word provably. I call him Iris a diamond which is signed a code of conduct ECA. It said, No swearing on the deck is phenomenal on the deck. I'm in the pool. I turned everybody into a bush Oh yeah. I said okay, back, change, change all that. Now. What are your goals and targets? Write it down? What are you prepared to do to achieve these goals and targets? Goals? A competition related targets or training related what added advantage will you bring and delivered to the team? Your teammates? Hard work commitment, dedication, talent added What would you bring? What will you deliver as an added advantage to the team? And what do you expect of me as the coach? Do I? Who do I have to fill the drink bottles up with? And do I have to drive the training? What do you expect? You write them down? No more than one page? Sign it, bring it to me. I'll read it. And if I agree or sign it, that's how I say how agreement, we both must stick to it. If for any stage, that agreement is broken by you or me, then we have to renegotiate it. The athlete knows where they stand. I know where the ad which the simple for questions, makes everything easy. And that gives you carriers to talk about very, so now I want to talk about your goals. How do you feel your goals are going? Are you targeting relationship? I know you said you know, you want to be an Olympic finds? How do you feel your targets are aligned with that Olympic track? It just gives you areas. So every week, I would pull out one of those agreements, and really discuss it with the athlete just asking questions. So for me, it was pretty important to be able to have a communication. I think, Michael sitting here, listening, and Michael's an expert at Michael's got great skills in this area.
Paul Barnett 41:22
Maybe at this point, I will ask Michael, if he's there, if it's okay. You've just heard, Bill give you a great compliment on being a wonderful question. Asker. Michael, there's a lot of people listen, that aren't great athletes that are great coaches, but they want to be better. They want to be better around the dinner table at home, they want to be better around the coffee table at work. So any advice you could give them on asking better questions to unlock potential?
Michael Bohl 41:46
Well, I think it's not really asking questions. It's being authentic. I think that's the big thing. I think certainly you've got to ask questions, if you want to learn and you've got to have people that you're asking the question to that you respect. And I think you know, with Bill, that's probably his greatest attribute. Like I think everywhere Bill's gone. He's had success, whether it's in England, in Hong Kong in Australia. So I think when you're talking about someone like Bill, when he says stuff, it tends to listen a little bit more attentively. So I think you've got to ask questions, but you got to ask questions to the right people. And not only do you have to ask questions, but you got to be willing to make change. I think there's a lot of people ask questions, but they're very set in their ways that they're not prepared to make change. monnaie. There's someone who once told me, and I'm not sure if this is a correct fact. But she said that of the top 50 tennis players in the world, those top 50 know what they've got to do to improve their game, what changes I've got to make, and they follow up those changes, and they actually change and the second 50, from 51 down know what they have to do as well, that they're not prepared to action and actually do what they know they need to do. stuff. I think that's a very important parts of me, say, you know, finding someone who you trust and respect, who you will listen to, and they're going to probably tell you stuff that you don't like to hear. But if you want to get better, and if you want to improve, you're going to be willing to make that change.
Paul Barnett 43:05
That's a great, great answer. And I would like to ask you some follow up questions, but I'm conscious that I've only got you all for a few more. For a few more minutes, I might come back to Bill on this topic or this idea of change. Because Bill, you talk a lot about behavior contagion, when it comes to coaching, and the fact that the athletes observe the coach observes what the athlete cannot and the athlete feels what the coach cannot. How can this insight around behavior contagion be applied to normal life?
Bill Sweetenham 43:37
I sold a quote from a very, very famous coach, Dan Lange, who coached Daniel later, and I went to Dugan. I'd known him for a long time, I said, Duncan, tell me about coaching and training Dannion. And he said, Lou is a relationship. The coach sees what the athlete can't, and the athlete feels, but the coach can and takes a marriage of both those attributes to produce a winning result. Pro words, I pursue intelligence wherever I can, from whoever I can. So I look for that, in every aspect of life. And great leadership was never popular. And popular leadership is never great. It's a quote from my younger son tevens. So he got it, he got those feelings from me. So if you're going to bring about improvement, based change, or change based improvement, you've got to get the improvement back right. Before you can make change to many people, as Marco just said, want to change before they have the improvement factor decided you have to side improvement, which is education, maybe not traditional education, but essentially Patient in your field of endeavor. So you want improvement? What does improvement mean for this athlete? And then you say to them, Well, this is how we have the change. This is a change. You don't say, this is how we change and hope for improvement? Because that's not a very good equation. So always look for each athlete, how can I improve this athlete? How can I improve this person, which will in turn, improve their performance? I want to improve this person, before I can improve this performance. [PB11] Our politicians, and many of our corporate leaders don't know that they don't understand that. I look at the person and say, how do we improve and help this person? And then I asked the person, therefore we got, therefore we want now how do we change? Tell me how you see change happening rather than having change, telling them. This is how you need to change how you're here, and every deck in the world, every training session, 365 days a year, you've got to change your stroke, you got to change your attitude, you've got to change it. Change an awful word, a loving word, but it's no good change. If you don't tell them how to you want to say this is improvement, you tell me how you got to change, and then clear on a winner. Because you're making the athlete take responsibility. Think about the situation, they may not make the right decisions. They may not. I spent a lot of time with a guy called John Medina, in Seattle, John wrote the book, Brain Rules for baby and Brain Rules. And I went through with him and a coach called Deke Hannula. In Seattle, and just a fabulous time. And I learned a lot about psychology, I learned that you have to talk all the time about improvement, improvement based performance, improvement based change, improvement based attitude, improvement based commitment. To many people have the opposite feel here and every day, can recall in the world 365 days a year, except for the few rare coaches that understand psychology. They understand the psychology of performance of the individual happened, why isn't the question
Paul Barnett 47:20
you didn't know you didn't answer the question. In a tremendous way. It's quite philosophical. And it forces me to reflect on how I'm approaching parenting actually, leadership. So what I wanted to do is you've had a lot of pain in your life, actually, you've had multiple surgeries following a really bad accident twice in your life, you've had bad accidents. You've grown from poverty. You started in man iser, and for many people, listening, if you Google my neck man iser, you'll see it's a pretty, pretty rugged place. You've got to the point in your journey, where you've coached multiple world records and all these wonderful people and you've named named so many of them in this interview. But if I could take you back to me, and iser, and introduce you to that boy that's being bullied by his father growing up in poverty. And if you could, turbocharged the learning but that person was going to have, what advice would you give, give your younger self,
Bill Sweetenham 48:11
I think, if if you really want to learn if you've got great teaching skills, and great learnings. See, the athlete's ability to learn is always greater than my ability to teach. So if you look for the athlete, who's has abilities, in advance of your ability to teach, I coached I taught a little boy when I was only young myself, a solidified boy to learn to swim, the man is in the middle of the pool, as a penalty from my father, this young boy had a foot on his right leg where his knees should be. And he was tired. He had that swimmin on termite treatment. And this little boy turned up every session every afternoon, for seven weeks of the school holidays, always early, never missed a session in what do you think, hopped in on one leg and I was just happy to be teaching and learning how to swim. The best thing that I've ever done in my life and my career was teaching Tony Spargo named stays with me forever. How to swim. In six weeks he could swim 50 meters backstroke referee approved and 50 meters butterfly and Prusa call referee approved. Those days got disqualified for his brush. No kidding, obviously. So it didn't get that. But what an achievement for any young coach that wants to know if they can coach and teach. Teach a handicapped person. Teach a disabled person how to swim mentally, physically. Attitude only my son taught for made a great lesson at 36. He doesn't use it on the Gulf Coast. He now lives in Melbourne, twice a week. It goes and hands out food and drinks for the homeless people on the screen. I never asked him to do it. But he did it. He did it because he wanted to do it. He, I asked him why he did it. He said, Dad, I saw what you did in your life and was flowing, and the tough upbringing. And I knew I had to do some special measures in your eyes. You didn't have to measure up in my eyes. You had to measure up in your own eyes, he said less than I made. He said I wanted to measure up in my own eyes to the standards. He was a father had said. And as a result, my oldest boy is the head of submarine warfare training today in the Australian Navy. And my son in law is the youngest kept deliverer of the HMIs and out of Perth. So success based on attitude and character breeds success. Success. Dislike. See, I want to fight the word like all my life. I hate the word luck. I've never been lucky. I don't want to be lucky. And I don't want to coach people who rely on luck. Luck is the worst word in the English language. Luck is created by yourself by effort, commitment, energy, enthusiasm, passion. That's luck. Luck is created within your own body based on and everybody you take to an optimal performance from Allah is based on your teachings and your attitude.
Paul Barnett 51:44
I want to finish with it might be an impossible question, particularly as you've got so many of your peers listening.
Bill Sweetenham 51:51
Okay. The last question. Yeah, I've got to ask each coach, after we finish here for something that I taught them,
Paul Barnett 52:01
now you go ahead, you go ahead and ask.
Bill Sweetenham 52:06
Get ready. Based on a few years back, I got a global female 400 phone calls from ever coached those 22 from Hollywood from my early days, Tracy wicker Michelle Ford, right through to my Lawn Boy years, bought them all on Skype. And I said I've worked for which we brutally honest, I want. And I think you've got to do this with your ex athletes. I know Michael, was definitely right. First question is, was it too hard on you as an athlete? When I coached you? Of course, it brought a lot of laughter. And he comment, but eventually the girls agreed that women agree, Bill. At the time we thought this, we thought you were far too demanding on us individually. Okay, to take for me. The next question was training with me, did you achieve your best outcome, the best possible outcome? The least 22 Women who won on the world stage hopping on podium on the world stage are pretty hard. Just attitude character competence. They all talked about it for a while, went off air and come back to you. 20 minutes later, they came back and said, Bill, there's no question that you got the best. As we don't believe we could have been a better result in another environment. Now that Title One, two TEKS as pretty good show. I said to the woman I said, I've got a third question. But I'm not going to ask one of my much older, like earlier athletes to be women now. We're all grown up has the effing question. We're not little girls anymore. I said, Okay. Given your time over, would you come and train and coach with me again? Hysterical laughter No, no, no way. No way. We're going through that again. But eventually they live and they came back to the city. And we would, that's what I think as a coach you have to do as a coach, you have to invest in your past to see your future. Don't invest in your past, it's not possible to see your future. In other words, if you make mistakes all through your coaching career, and you don't change into that improve, then nothing nothing good comes. You have to have to address improvement, even when it hurts, but you have to be brave enough to address[PB12]
Paul Barnett 54:47
with that amazing thing. I think you should address these coaches and see what they say
Bill Sweetenham 54:51
actually is whoever say and these coaches for a very special people for me. I select for these people to come on. Because I have great belief in them, the exercise physiologist. And remember, I call everybody a coach. I don't see Tom believes that exercise physiologist or David pine. I see them as coach, sports scientist is a coach, just as the coach is for scientists. So the coach must be a sports scientist, as a sports scientist must be a coach. So guys, if you want to add anything, try not to be too damning. But he's you change,
Paul Barnett 55:30
who should we talk to first bill? Would you like to bring Michael bow?
Michael Bohl 55:36
Muscles? If not, now, I'm here on my Texas t shirt, you'll be happy bill. Now I think you know, there's many, many lessons Bill's taught me over the years. And I think Bill probably won't remember this. But you know, back when I was swimming with him back in the 1970s, he used to sort of get us all together for talks, he'd had these talks, and we've all listened very attentively. And this is going back to the 1970s. So it's what set 40 years ago. And I remember him saying to this group of athletes that you know, you got to learn to be resilient every day, there's going to be people that try and put you off your game. And you've got to have the mental strength to be able to not let anyone affect the way you are. And I think it's something that I hold true to this day, like, you know, there's a lot of people who will try and get under your skin who will try and upset you or try and put you off your game. But I think you've got to be ready for that you've got to be understanding of that. And your mindsets got to be so strong is no matter what anyone says to me that I'm not going to be derailed from what I've got to do today. [PB13] So it's something that I I take not only as a swimming coach, but as a person through so I think that was very, very, very good. But at the Olympic level, I've been lucky enough as a coach together five Olympics, which have been fantastic. It's something we all aspire to as coaches, and had been lucky enough to have some success there. I think Bill's been instrumental in my mindset of just understanding that, you know, the preparation for your athletes has got to be uncompromising, it's got to be better than anyone else that they're competing against. It's got to be consistent. It's got to be world class, and all those messages that Bill delivered to me when I was a summer with him. But not only then in the last eight years, nine years, I meet with Bill fairly regularly for coffee and chats. And he's always preaching that you've got to be ready on the day to do three good swims a hater semi in the final, if they're not conditioned, they've cut corners, and they've taken shortcuts, like Bill said earlier on, if you've compromised your preparation, under the bright spotlight of the Olympic flame, you're going to come unstuck. And I think with the athletes, I've been lucky enough to have a little bit of success at the Olympic Games. And I think that those messages have really stuck through with me to this day. And I've got one more Olympics left in me. I'll be using those same same mantras going into Paris. So I'm very appreciative of all the expertise and guidance that Bill has given me over the years. It's been very helpful for me, and not only to me, but also the swimmers that I've coached by association in the program.
Paul Barnett 58:00
Thank you, Michael. They're tremendous words. And it's great to see that the messages have gone from Bill to you and have also been successful, I think in the scientific community that is proof in evidence that things work. Bill, who would you like to ask next?
Bill Sweetenham 58:14
Whether wants to put their hand up?
Paul Barnett 58:15
I can see what next I can see Tom with his hand up.
Bill Sweetenham 58:19
Oh, good, man. Yeah, so
Tom Vandenbogaerde 58:21
I've worked very closely with Bill. He's just a very, very good teacher. When we were talking about questions, he would ask me questions, Tom, what what you just did just now, does that make a difference for tomorrow? And then I think maybe not. And then why did it just why did he do it? Then? Now think continuously this question fly that far, that you that you just have to really be on your game, and set really high standards for the athletes, but also for the staff. And I think there's many stories that maybe just one like, yeah, we're at a pool, and then I'll see Bill's car parked in a car park and park crook in a car park. And I'm like, Bill, you have to, you know, talk to your car? Well, you're going to get a fine. And he said, not only give myself one chance to park my car well, and if I don't get a ride, I have to live with it. So if I get a fine, it's my own fault that she didn't get gotten advice from the first time. So I think like all these questions and teachings taught me a lot. And I think working for athletes as well. I think when there's an important session going on, he can really speak to the minds of the athletes. So they're really enthused and give themselves everything that they can to actually deliver. So I think yeah, he's a very, very good teacher, one of the best of Aberystwyth.
Paul Barnett 59:30
Thank you, Tom, for sharing that story. It's a great one. I don't think I could leave many. I'd been too much. I'd been too much debt. If I did that. You've got perhaps David. And then I guess, Gustavo.
David Pyne 59:42
Yeah. Thanks, Paul. It's David pioneer. And thanks, Bill for another insightful hour that we've just shared. And the journey that we've been on today, I think mirrors the journey that I've had with you over the last 35 years, and people often look simplistically, as you said today It's not about coaching the swimmer or training the swimmer. And it's not even about coaching the coaches. It's really about coaching ourselves. They were a swimmer or a parent, we're a professional business setting, or in a family setting or a social setting. And so those values and ideals that you've espoused and articulated so well today and right through the journey that I've shared with you, so self belief, and no compromise. So just knowing where you are, so when I hear talk with coaches, or parents, or as we're doing now, sharing with like minded individuals, that's what comes to me I hear all these messages, Bill's talking to swimmers or Bill's talking to business people. But I reflect on those and I always come back to that. So what what's in it for me, and how you engage with that, and how you apply that. So, knowledge is out there as we live in a digital world. It's easy to get that and we all have opinions, but for me, it's that sort of reflecting on those things and then trying to implement that to make the place better.
Paul Barnett 1:01:01
Thanks, Paul. Gustavo, in Argentina, I guess.
Gustavo Roldan 1:01:05
How are you good morning here because it's the five o'clock AM
Bill Sweetenham 1:01:09
like appointee of yourself. Any stop is the main coach in the world. Who knows my systems and methodologies. I've spent more time with Gustavo, in Australia and in Argentina. If you talk about Gustavo and Bill Sweetnam. If I say, ask me a question and then ask your staff out, he will give you exactly the same answer to the question you asked me. He has every bit of knowledge and experience that I have as a coach during the time that I spent one on one with Gustavo, in Argentina, and in training camps in Australia during the last 10 years when I had time to spay I tried to give Gustavo every single bit of knowledge that I had for his coaching and training. However it's worked
Gustavo Roldan 1:02:00
okay. Thank you. But for me, Bill is like I say I say like events or in the swimming and in the life in the last 10 years when he comes to a container for first time he posts I think people say a big A for him change the mind of the coach friends Bill tried to give us the thinking about the power of the mind believing in yourself and produce the change in Argentina for the for the stream was a big experience when I was transferred Alia I tried to to learn more of for the swimming but Bill push the limits of the coach for me on the streamers in understand the main of the coaching like Bill say before trying the neck for the body and coach and mindful there was interested in the experience on Paul thank you for the invitation and sorry for my English and practice one or two days for a Tom now for speak more fluency.
Paul Barnett 1:03:11
No, it's fine, Gustavo, it's good to talk to someone from Argentina, Buenos Aires, one of my favorite cities in the world. So Oh, Bill, I think these words, no compromise, self belief, power of the mind. Mentoring, and leadership is probably a great place for us to finish. So I'd like to thank you for today. It's been it's been a real treat for me on a dark and dreary day to spend a bit of time talking to you and learning about okay,
Bill Sweetenham 1:03:38
Paul, can I leave a challenge? You can choose the coaches that are listening to this. And I hopefully there's a lot of coaches, where's training and coaching headed into the future. We saw the Olympic Games where we saw some spectacular ladies in the women's 203 We saw Mr. McKeon coached by Michael bowl, when the event are standing out extending result coming from 100 200 meter background accuracy. We saw Ariana titmus as well in the Formula Two as similar results, but a completely different training background. Michael was largely sprint based with Mr. D box or securities based with area and then we saw Mariah bomonti Delphina Peter telio. Small UK, Vicky coming from a very much injurious jurors orientated practice with little speed, all three similar outcomes from three completely different backgrounds, the future of training and coaching in the world today as it staged individualization and specialization. So coaches, think about if you had the opportunity to coach a SWAT Lifecolor decking the body put your toe or if you had a chance to coach a swimmer, like tennis, or you had a chance to coach her, and Kate Campbell or Emma McKeon all swimming that 200 meter event, how would you apply practices to the individual athletes on a specialized basis? If you can do that, you've learned a hell of a lot from these Olympics. You've learned how to train and how to coach All the best guys, and Ben tiddly if you get to watch this, and praying all the best, all the coaches that I've had worked with over the IRS, and Dave McNally, I wish you well in your future in your coaching. And Paul, I wish you a great future in your line of work.
Paul Barnett 1:05:45
Thank you so much, Bill. It's been a it's been a real honor to spend some time with you today. And I I love I love listening to the Australian accent. I love the stories. I didn't think I was gonna hear about Nelson Mandela and Muhammad Ali today. We did and I can't wait to share it with the world. Oh good.