Brenda Frese Edit
Tue, 8/17 8:13AM • 27:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
players, brenda, coach, maryland, talk, instill, game, team, conversations, people, coaches, embrace, uncomfortable, years, ethic, build, confidence, day, moments, parents
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Brenda Frese
Paul Barnett 00:00
Bring the phrase Good evening, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Brenda Frese 00:05
Thank you so much for having me. I was excited to be able to come on today,
Paul Barnett 00:09
we're very excited to talk a little bit of basketball with you. And we're gonna get into your long and storied Korea in this little interview. But perhaps if I could start with something really easy, Brenda, where are you in the world today? And what have you been up to so far,
Brenda Frese 00:22
given now that we're kind of moving through COVID and the pandemic that we all just came out of, and I think learned so many things and lessons now we are kind of full blown back into reality of what it's like to be the head coach at the University of Maryland, things have opened back up. So we've done a lot of visits on campus, bringing recruits in and most recently, July is a massive recruiting month. So I've just came off of eight days, and four or five different states, it's nice to be back in my own bed and know where I'm at. But we've been able to finally see all these players that we've spent over a year plus watching on line and the internet. So it's really great to be able to be back in person securing all this great talent that's out there.
Paul Barnett 01:08
We'll talk a little bit later on about how you judge talent. But for now, I'd like to just go back a little bit and talk about at least two great coaches that I know you've had exposure to this bill Fennelly and there's Gary Williams, and I'm sure there's many, many others that I wasn't able to research. But Brenda, what is it, you think that the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart from the rest,
Brenda Frese 01:28
I think and I tried to model it myself. But when I view it, I think it's just those coaches with relationships, they know how to connect with people, make them feel like worth a million dollars, who they are their personality. But I really feel just that connection that you have in your day to day with the people that you're surrounded with, with the people that you're recruiting within your university is a huge piece to leadership,[PB1]
Paul Barnett 01:51
Brenda, you became the head coach of Minnesota in 2001. And the team experiences one of the biggest NCAA turnarounds in history you go from 1820, to 22, and eight. And this, of course, led to you being named Coach of the Year, but by the US basketball Writers Association. But something else interesting happened that he, you also started playing your games in the same stadium as when the men's team was playing. And so I imagine that this must have been very satisfying for you. So I wanted to just flip that around a little bit and ask what are the other gender biases that you would really like to tackle as leader of a team in one of the big universities in America?
Brenda Frese 02:30
Well, was ironic how that all went down at the us because we were playing in the sports pavilion at the time where women's basketball and volleyball played. And then there was a massive leak that happened. And we came off of beating the University of Wisconsin who was ranked number three in the country. And we came back in and had to play all our games at the barn and walked into 15,000 fans that filled up the arena. So they never looked back. I mean, it was just by accident that they were able to move over in that facility. So I feel pretty grateful that I was the coach there to be able to kind of witness that and watch that. But I think so many things have come out in the forefront most recently when you talk about the NCAA Tournament. And you saw a lot of the differences that were taking place between the NC double A's for the men in Indianapolis and then you living it in San Antonio, sometimes you think we're in 2021. And we continue to watch how it's it's so different and unequal for the men versus the women. But there's a lot more that we need to tackle you look at what's going on right now with Becky Hammon and trying to be the first women's NBA coach. And she's now getting the interviews, but no one's yet quite ready to make that next move. You can look at the differences in salaries you can look at. I mean, the list could go on and on. And I think we've gotten to a point as women where before it used to be, because we're just grateful, grateful to have so many great things to be in this profession. We're not wanting to make a lot of noise. But I think it's finally gotten to a point where I think women are starting to understand in the positions that we hold that it's important to kind of lead our charge and our fight for all the differences that are going on to kind of bring that awareness to try to get it more on even[PB2]
Paul Barnett 04:18
Sabrina you have a great run at Minnesota. And in 2002 Debbie yeah brings you to Mary land and when she announced it, she says that's a great saying I'm going to read the quote back to you if I can. She says there's an old Southern saying that describes why we targeted Brenda, which goes like this. If a dog is going to bite you, they'll bite you as a pup. Now I wanted to ask, was there a person or event that triggered this desire in you to be a coach who could bite as
Brenda Frese 04:48
my parents raised? There were six of us children in the home so obviously an extremely competitive Homefront. We competed to be able to eat at the dinner table. I remember my brother taking Get more slices of pizza em as fast as he could before it was all gone so well that was instilled within us at a really young age. I think that competitiveness that work ethic, my parents now are 89 and 81 years young, and still, to this day working, it's their passion every single day. But I just think we kind of had it early, we were fortunate to have two parents that really supported us and molded us and as a female, it was okay to be confident and aggressive, competitive, put us in a lot of sports, maybe keep us busy while while they worked their jobs that they had, but it was always something that was embraced was doing things Excel and doing it at the highest level.
Paul Barnett 05:42
There's a lot of research that says teenage girls drop out of sport, because of the aggressiveness and the competitiveness, they find that difficult. How do you talk about those traits with young women, when you go to coaching programs and come across them,
Brenda Frese 05:56
I definitely build up. I'm a coach that is really positive. I embrace the unconfident I try to model it each and every day. But when you walk into our practices, or you're at a game, for me, it's all about instilling positive, confident energy. And our players know if they hang their head on a play, or you see them losing confidence, it's going to be a motivational way or conversation to really instill as much confidence as I possibly can. I really believe between the ears, you have to have that right before anything else, because you can be this talented player out on the court and be able to do all kinds of things. But if mentally, your confidence isn't there, you're not going to be able to produce what you're capable of doing. So I love that component. For me, it's who I am. It's what I'm about. And I love being able to help young women as they're kind of in those impressionable years coming through college. And then the next step of real life is getting them in positions that they're the most confident woman walking out of the University of Maryland when they leave our program,[PB3]
Paul Barnett 07:01
Brenda and the wonderful book, he co authored about your 2006 nc double a title. It's called overtime is our time and you talk about the championship game. But what I found really interesting was actually the six overtime games, you won on the road to that game, and you won that game in overtime as well. It's quite unusual. And I was watching the Euro 2020 game last weekend was penalty shootout and I was thinking again to this analogy between winning consistently and overtime. So my question is, what did you learn from that pressure cooker environment that year that has stayed with you now as a coach?
Brenda Frese 07:37
Yeah, it just to embrace it. I think most people will see when we're in really close games, overtime games that you're talking about is I actually get calmer, even more confident where some people flipped the other way, right? The anxiousness and anxiety takes over[PB4] . And then you coach in a different way. But I think when you've had that kind of experience, I mean, no question. When you look at that team, one of our players tapped it after our second overtime was like overtime is our time. And it's ironic then that we would go on to have six and your national championship game we knew we were going to win with that kind of confidence that we had in overtime. we embraced it we loved it kind of goes to show you the psyche of those players that season. Why did they win a national championship because they just had a mentality that they were wired and built for really pressure cooker type of moments. And so I do I think mentally you can wire yourselves in different ways when you're faced with adversity, or when an intense moment. And I think it's really important to I enjoy it, I get calmer, I'm confident in those moments and just want to help our team be the very best.[PB5]
Paul Barnett 08:46
You talk a lot about actually the perils of a negative culture and unacceptable standards. But I'd like to flip that around, actually and ask you what are the trademarks of a great team culture?
Brenda Frese 08:57
I think a lot, I think it first you have to have the trust within your team. And that stems from I think the leadership model, your players have to feel that trust, they have to see that trust all the way from the top down. Because I do think it's modeled and your players are able to see I mean, when you walk into our program, you're going to see staff that is together and a family oriented staff that really enjoys working with each other. And I think with that trust comes that sisterhood. If you looked at our team, there's a bond that our players have that can't be broken. And that's because of the trust that they've built. That's because of the time that they've spent together. It's really really important. [PB6] a program like Maryland, consistent top 10 program. I mean obviously the players that come in here are high level, very motivated, love to work. I think if you come into this program, and that's not what you're about, you'll be exposed. You're gonna feel that difference of players that are just really hungry really competitive. Enjoy getting there and be unable to work. So I think those are important qualities when you talk about having that trust with each other having that work ethic that you'll go to bat for each other, because of what's layered within each of your players within your program bring to trust has to be earned.
Paul Barnett 10:15
So how do you go about building it quickly and coherently in a team, whether you've got players coming in and out every year,
Brenda Frese 10:23
that's probably the hardest element. When you talk about for us, the game now has changed so much. When you talk about we have the transfer portal. And players now they're not happy they're not playing they can leave don't have to sit out. So your team, every season that makeup is different every single year, whether it players are coming in or coming out, I could take this last year as an example, we lost five starters, we had graduation, we had some players that left and we brought in a lot of new players between a transfer portal and incoming freshmen. It was one of the most rewarding years ever, we were 728 and three and a half so many pieces. But I think like what you're asking the trust is it's an every day consistent pattern I always share like who you are, as a person is a reflection of every single day of how you behave with your professors how you behave in practice, do you come to practice early? Do you stay late to work on your game. And I think that's no different. When you talk about a coaching staff, those interactions that you get every single day, whether that's face to face, whether that's sending a text message, having those conversations within a season when you're working through where a player might be at that point in the season. So I think it's just a daily constant consistent pattern that they know they can trust you and you can trust them just with the conversations, you've been able to have to build that trust,[PB7]
Paul Barnett 11:46
render I was preparing for today by researching and reading and really immersing myself in your backstory. But the theme that comes up consistently, is your ability to build self belief in others. And I actually found a nice quote from Laura Harper, one of your ex players that I think sums this up really well. She says, Coach B believes in US way more than we believe in ourselves. And so my question was, how would you help someone's self belief grow without becoming overly positive or just a cheerleader?
Brenda Frese 12:18
Yeah, again, I think there's different ways and like we've been talking about is that that trust level is so key. But when you go back to personal relationships, it's the day to day conversations that you're having with a player. When I get to mold them, I'm an extension from their parents and their family, I feel like I have the greatest time of development when they hand their child off to us from 18 to 23, which is like very formative molding years, for them in college to then get prepared for what lies ahead in adulthood.[PB8] And so for me, it's continuing to have those conversations of what it looks like what I see what I believe having a player in my office and showing them film, I've done film work where it's, I'll show them their game, I'll show them another player that similar in the NBA or another college player, taking clips where you can kind of give them the forward thinking. But that starts way back even in the recruiting process, kind of where they're at to where you see the big picture of their career and things that you can help them become but you're 100% right of like, It pains me if there's a female that doesn't have confidence, because the only person that can take confidence away from you is if you give permission to yourself to take it away. And regardless, if someone says anything, you people have their opinions who you are what you are. So for me, it's just continuing to build that level of confidence with each and every one of our players to be the very best. I have a player right now that has the sweetest soul, I mean, beyond anything, but she says I'm sorry, probably every other sentence. And it's something that I've shared with her you get three saris a week, because it is it's continuing to build that self confidence. And part of that is because she's such a pure human being and doesn't want to mess anything up. But then part of that is a confidence level that she's needs to be secure and know that she can accomplish anything in life.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 14:16
Read Dr. Another great quote from you. Actually, if I could play it back to you, when you get everyone to buy into your belief system and be on the same page. There's no better award for a coach. So I'd like to ask you, what are the core beliefs of your coaching philosophy?
Brenda Frese 14:30
Gosh, when I have to sit and put it into words, I think passion is huge. If you're not going to get up every day and and be excited about tackling the day and I think anyone who knows me knows that I love my job and I love the fact that I get to coach and mentor between my my staff and my players. You can feel and see that passion every single day. Family is huge. Anyone who knows me and how we run our program, a lot of people talk about family. But for me, we live it. My program is an extension of my immediate family in Iowa, my current family at home in Maryland, but everything we do is going to be to look out for each other, to have a great experience, they only get one college career in their time. So I want it to be the best experience that they can possibly have. I mean that I think my parents instilled a really high level of core value of work ethic and integrity, work ethic, can't be afraid to roll up your sleeves and put your time in. And when you do some pretty special things pay off. [PB10] I mean, I'm a ferocious recruiter, I love to recruit and be able to find the right pieces. I've had numerous coaches talk about my work ethic in the gym, and how I'll stay for the last game at night or be at the first game in the morning. I'm super, super competitive when you talk about the X's and O's and getting on the court and bring in the talent that we have and match it up against the competition that we face. And work ethic is really important. And I was raised with a strong background, Catholic family. So the integrity piece has been something that's been instilled all the way up. And I trust people unless they take that trust away from me the integrity piece of doing right by people doing right every single day, within everything that you're you're handling and juggling, I would think those would be some of the core pieces, core values that I would say we emulate in our program.[PB11]
Paul Barnett 16:23
We're talking about your family. Actually, when you were growing up, you said that in your house, nobody stayed mad at each other. Even after arguments, he talked about it quite a lot, actually. And I wondered how does this learning of yours or this upbringing around not staying mad translate into the way that you might handle negative influences within the team. And if there's any correlation there?
Brenda Frese 16:44
Yeah, 100%, I never really thought of it until you said that my dad used to always instill and I've watched my parents over 62 plus years of marriage that he always gave, like, never go to sleep mad even in your arguments that you might have, which you can imagine with five other siblings and different personalities, is just always to stay connected as a family. That's the core of who you have. And we've been able to do that. But I think when you talk about coaching, when I reflect back, when something happens, which is going to happen when when you're juggling a team and a family yourself, if a situation happens, I usually sleep on it, I'll give myself that night. It's amazing when you wake up the next day, how much clearer you are, and the emotions are taken out of it. And those decisions are greater after a tough loss. And we always close every game in the locker room. But after a tough loss, it's going to be a short speech, because I don't want to regret anything that I've said or done within that time, because emotions are high. So I think just those have really helped me through the years when distancing time and space. [PB12] But that I think, as a family, you do come back to if there's an internal conflict, or there's something within your team that needs to be managed, I'm not going to just sleep on it for a day and then not address it, it's going to get a dress the next day where a family will come together within those meetings or the conversations or what needs to happen will definitely be taken care of where as a family that you're able to dress and be able to move on.
Paul Barnett 18:14
It's a great, great answer. Brenda, thank you for sharing. Let's looking at your coaching style. And there's plenty of people dissecting it, or talking about it, trying to analyze it. Guess it's part and parcel of being a great coach, right. But one of the things that come through is in your training, you seem to take a proactive approach to teaching people to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations seems to be a core part of your coaching. So I'm wondering, it's a key issue for everybody dealing with being uncomfortable and not running away from it and bracing it? Is there one or two things you think all of us could be doing to get better at handling discomfort?
Brenda Frese 18:51
Yeah, well, I think again, when I say it starts at the top, and I just say this as a mother of twins as I think we've taken away as parents, just the resiliency factor of it's okay for your kid to fail. It's okay for them to experience hard things. I think sometimes we've gotten to a point that we just don't want to see our kids hurt or be in pain. And I think those are some of the the toughest moments where you're able to establish that resiliency within your child. I think when you think of a team, sometimes I can point to a moment in a season each and every year where there's a defining moment that moves your team along a path. And that defining moment more times is for the good. Sometimes it changes the path. But those moments are crucial. Sometimes after a really tough loss. You'll learn about your team to be able to fix it and change it. The growth that comes out of it really allows your team to become a lot more resilient. So in practices, we're trying to kind of build those moments all the time. We want those practices to be as hard and as uncomfortable as possible. We want them to understand that game. are going to be, you know, different and uncomfortable and we want to embrace it because that fight is what makes it so worth it[PB13] . But just understanding and like I've said, and you just said it embracing that big mantra is be comfortable being uncomfortable. And you're going to be that in every walk of your life, when you graduate from the University of Maryland, and go into that next chapter, you're going to be pretty uncomfortable for a while until you get to that point in your career, and that you're gonna then take another step in your career or make a move. When I came to Maryland, I did three moves and four years from Ball State to Minnesota to Maryland. And I was like, I can't wait till I can settle down into one place which Maryland is home, going into my 20th season. But to think in those moves, it was very uncomfortable is very hard, but also made me appreciate and made me a lot tougher to understand each and every move just what I needed to do.
Paul Barnett 20:52
Randy said something fascinating that he talked about every season, there's a moment an inflection point, would you feel comfortable just sharing the story of one of those inflection points what happened and how you managed it?
Brenda Frese 21:03
Yeah, it was actually it was either 2014 or 15. Because I was one of the we went back to back Final Fours. And I believe it was 2014. And we had just lost in the ACC tournament. In the quarterfinal rounds, it was an early loss, we had a team that was really, really talented, shouldn't have been an early loss for us. So they had to make a decision whether the week but between leading up to the NCAA tournament, whether we were going to make that just like our normal practice week, or it was just going to be a really tough week, reminding them of the standard that we've held and where they should be. It was to a point where we were really, really tough on this team, we were fine tuning and really everything up to that point. But that loss and and that moment, coming back in that week was a really defining moment for that team to understand what we saw in them and what we believed in them. And ultimately, they ended up going to a fondo for that year, and being able to push through something that was really tough in the ACC tournament to make it to a final for that year.
Paul Barnett 22:06
Brenda, you've got two sons, I think their names are Marcus and Tyler, I've got to correct their teenagers now. So lots of people listening out there that have also got teenagers, sometime in the future, probably not that far away, actually, they're gonna come to you, and they're gonna ask you for some leadership advice. They may not say, Mom, if you got leadership advice, but they're gonna ask for advice about taking on a group role or stepping up and embracing more responsibility, or, indeed, accountability. And I'm just wondering, what would be the top one or two things you'd say to them?
Brenda Frese 22:35
I think two things come to mind. First give you an example, coming off the road. And I think I try to live it daily with my boys, I give them different things that have happened with in our team different things I see and feel. And that's ongoing. I came off the road. And one of my sons shared with me how his best friend kind of moving apart because his best friend got involved. They were out in a situation and he got involved with two other boys and kind of started picking a fight and my son pulled him back. And, you know, he said he told his friend, no, if I want to stay friends with you, if this is who you're going to be, because this isn't who I am. And we had this conversation when you know, literally when they picked me up at the airport, he was sharing the story with me. And I was so proud because it's just shared with me like he's been listening, like those are what we're talking about in your teenager years of following or being a leader and knowing right from wrong. And we've had two conversations out of it. And I mean, that's the thing, I hope that I've been modeling it and doing enough. So they understand. And I think that's the biggest thing is when you have those conversations, my boys know like knowing the difference from right and wrong, you've got to be you can't just be a follower, like in your heart. If you you know, right from wrong. You don't just sit back and watch it as a leader, you step out and you're uncomfortable. And you make sure that people know the difference from right or wrong. And if you can't change it, you walk away from it, you get out of the situation that you're involved in. But I think those are the biggest things that I try to instill with them is they're going to come across in these teenage years. There could be alcohol, there could be drugs, there could be naive enough to know, you know what's gonna go on. We've had a lot of conversations to anticipate. So they're prepared for different things that that lie ahead, but ultimately, that in those moments that they're ready in their hearts to make the right decisions.[PB14]
Paul Barnett 24:28
Brenda, you've been so generous with the time and I know you've got to go off to another function soon. But if I could finish with just one question, I know you've been there. You're indeed 20th season or 21st certainly coming. But you still got probably 30 years of coaching ahead of you. So in the distant distant future, when you do retire and hang up that whistle. What's the legacy you'd like to leave behind you as a coach?
Brenda Frese 24:51
I don't know if I think so much about legacy because for me, it's not about render freezes is done all these things and wine and you got to this amount of wins. And that for me, that's not what it's about. That's not what's gonna be on my tombstone. But for me, it's just I just hope like all these players and parents and coaches say you've been a part of just had a great experience that I was an influence in their life that I made an impact because all of that other the winning and your success, it's a byproduct, in my opinion of doing things the right way every single day, and then putting in that kind of work. But for me, it's at the end of the day, it's kind of how I started. It's the relationships, it's the people, it's the memories you get to make you spend so much time with your staff and recruiting players and bringing players and their parents into the program that just really hope that they can come back and say, Gosh, I wonder Coach Freeze the best four years, five years of my life, when I reflect back of my college experience.[PB15]
Paul Barnett 25:48
Brenda, would you mind if I challenged you on that?
Brenda Frese 25:51
Absolutely.
Paul Barnett 25:52
We'd obviously we've never met before today, but I feel like I've been reading your story. And I think the example you just shared about your son is a very good example, actually, that and the other thing that got me thinking about it was that there's a story of you eating a hot dog once in the middle of a game or something like that. Anyway, I think there's something about emotional regulation. And I think what you're very good at is managing your emotions and making sure that they fit not perfectly, but very, very well with the situation. And I think that influences the people around you quite strongly influenced your son anyway. And I think the women and the men there is also in your support staff. I think they feel this and they see this from you, when they regulate their emotions. I think it helps us self belief.
Brenda Frese 26:32
Wow, that's heavy. I completely agree with what you're saying. Because I do think like I said, every single day you give a snapshot of who you are, people can feel that energy when you walk into a room. I've never thought of it that way, Paul until you say it now. But it's pretty cool to think that way. Because, again, I think his role model is a female in this profession. And when you look at my staff, and they have aspirations to be a head coach, or you look at your players, someday they're gonna move on into different roles that you hope that they do see that my thing is, I hope every single day you get the consistent pattern, that consistent snapshot of who I am, I think that's really important that they see and feel and they understand every single day what they're getting.[PB16]
Paul Barnett 27:13
Brenda, it's been such a privilege spending a little bit of time today talking about all things coaching and leadership. So thank you very much for your time and all the best for the next season ahead.
Brenda Frese 27:23
Well, thank you so much. This was a lot of fun, and I've enjoyed having the conversation with you.