Brendan Joyce edit
Sat, Feb 11, 2023 12:28PM • 37:30
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, players, play, game, taiwan, team, self belief, strengths, talk, important, brian smith, ability, hawks, point, basketball, rebounds, richmond, bit, people, speak
SPEAKERS
Brendan Joyce, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Brendan Joyce Hello, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Brendan Joyce 00:05
absolutely delighted to be here, mate. And thanks for inviting us very
Paul Barnett 00:09
excited to talk to another Australian about a little bit of basketball too. So can we kick off with something pretty simple. Brendan, where are you in the world? Because this is an interesting answer. And what have you been up to so far today?
Brendan Joyce 00:23
Today's the day off I am in gold shot in Taiwan. That's south of Taiwan pie page or for everybody, most people know where Taipei is. And I'm pretty happy today we come on off our second game preseason game, we lost the first one by a point to a tee called D are very, very good as a nice little wake up call for us. And then the next night we won by 30 against the team we beat in the championship series last year. But all teams have changed a little bit. So but my day off ball. So great day to be chatting with you.
Paul Barnett 00:53
Well, thanks for carving out a bit of time on your day off to talk about hoops with us. I want to start Brendan by just name checking a few great coaches that you've you've worked with directly on the bench, Tom Penrose, Barry Bonds. And of course, Brian gourgeon. And I'm sure there's been many others as well. But from this perspective, up close, what do you think the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?
Brendan Joyce 01:18
Well, they've all been great, in their own time, gorgeous, still going overseas. Now, like me coaching overseas, I mean, he's probably the leader in that part. He went first. I've only just started working full time, very bars was a coach psychiatry as a kid. And as a senior coach, Tommy Penrose, I loved it. When I saw that name mentioned, not many people would know him. And he was way ahead of his time. So I'll talk a little bit more about him because he was around obviously, in the 50s and 60s. And when I took over the Illawarra hawks, or then Wollongong holds back the Illawarra hawks, he was so passionate. He because he's from long gone. He was a lecturer at the Wollongong University. And he came and knocked on my door. And I didn't have a clue who he was the first day, pretty much the first day I started and he said, I'm going to tell you, there's not a pebble, you can trust that you can trust me, it was really, Eddie said, I just really admired you as a player. And I know you've been coaching in the CBA at Worlds for three years, but I love to help you. I know he helped Alan black previously. And and when I got to know him, man, God, he was an intelligent guy. And I'll talk a fraction more about him. But I'll get back to the others.
What is it about these guys, but I think what jumps out about all those three names you mentioned, they're extremely passionate, and have a love for the game, genuine passion and love for the game. And obviously have a level of competency. If you if you're not competent, you're not going to be respected. You have to have some competency, you have to understand what you're doing. You have to know what to do, how to do when to do why to do those four things. So I think most of those coaches, they don't have a clue.
But another thing that stands out I think with great coaches is accountability. They hold everyone accountable. It could be even for members depending on their relationships with players that it makes it tough sometimes and just all friendship friends, family, all that sort of thing. So but they are strong enough and have the courage and conviction to hold people accountable. Because if you let things slide, you're not going to be successful. You this we use the word slippage gorge and I we both use the same word, you have slippage. You can't have and if you want to be successful,
another one, you're going to have all that but kept Do you have the ability to influence so there's some charisma about those guys, aside from their their skills, their competence, skills and determination. They have an ability to influence where they speak, people listen, and they're respected. So I think that jumps out.[PB1] [PB2]
What's the other one? Like I want to go back to Tom Penrose, the fifth one because I think no one would know him but what do idolized him as like an assistant, and he would keep stacks and before that there really kept stacks with our analytics, right? He could see the game. So at the end of the game, you'd have already transitioned baskets, layups, layups against fouls, rebounds, you have all the normal stats, but we obviously keep certain statistics that that we have performance. So he would keep those for me, and he would do those on his own. You know, not many people can do that. No, I found he would see the gain or what I call a holistic way. And I think that's the biggest strength of mine is watching players play their roles within the concepts of how you want to play as a team. So players abilities within the scheme, so you got to seal that. So that helps you pretty much game coaching, make adjustments on the road, some coaches have to wait till the video the next day, or make adjustments for the next game. And we all do that. But you have to see things on the road. I think Tom had that ability coach in the 50s and 60s, he coached the Hawks, so not many people know about it. But there's a video of us winning the championship, make it not the boss, and he's crying. It actually won the Hawks first championship and he was a big part of that year. So I was ready to see that name. So people need to know about that guy.
Paul Barnett 04:43
Well, we'll get onto that hawks premiership later on in the discussion, but perhaps Let's go on a bit of a journey because 13 seasons as a player, and one of the interesting stats from your career was that for many years, you held the League record for assists, and I'm just wondering how This appreciation for assisting is visible now in your own coaching philosophy.
Brendan Joyce 05:05
I really love the fact you're picking these things at all because it's the big part. And what I found is the early days when I played in the NBA, I felt there was too much focus on the Americans the imports, we gave them the ball, they score, when we got to the playoffs, that suspect is we were rounded up, but we never won the championship. I think we're too reliant. And there wasn't enough encouragement for them to share the basketball. But that's how it was then. So part of that stays with me as a coach. So me being a point guard and shared sharing the ball, I had to make an adjustment to become more aggressive, probably in my own way. It was assistant coach, caller ID and other famous name in basketball that encouraged me to be more aggressive scoring wise. And so was the middle part the late part of my career, I started to find that balance and also found that made me be a better point guard. So people respected the fact that was trying to score maybe a better passer. So it'd be less help so to speak. So I encourage that my podcast today and as you say, I encourage players really to be aggressive, not just the point guard all players to be aggressive to score but make the extra pass. So I encourage them to play to their strengths, first of all, and if everyone makes the extra pass they do to become a tough team to play against. So on all the championship teams I've been with, whether it be CBA Ballarat, the Hawks, now Taiwan by Shang ackwards The Arpels bronze medal, and the teams that have been successful, we've had multiple scores, and we've had higher success rates. So that's really makes us tough to scout, as well. So yes, it's definitely had an influence in the style of play, and how I encourage players and my team to play with
Paul Barnett 06:36
Brendan, over the arc of your journey. How have you managed to balance confidence as a coach, with the humility needed to look beyond your own strengths and keep improving?
Brendan Joyce 06:46
Yeah, it most coaches, you've got to have a thick skin, and they usually have a level of confidence and belief in themselves to last. That leads to be pretty strong, because it's a tough life. Being a coach, everyone's critical, and especially in today's society, the last 20 years. I'll talk more about that. As a player. I think it's even tougher, everyone's got an opinion, and usually the opinions negative unless you win every game. So you do need a self belief you need a confidence, but at the same time, you can't have an arrogance to the fact that you think you know it all. You know, I'm 60 years of age and I don't know, I listen. I watch. I read watch videos, I read books where I can I try to spend time with other coaches not just in basketball from our sport, especially being in Melbourne, we got some great football teams. [PB3]
I've got to meet some AFL coaches I noticed I'm just trying to think you had dinner on on one of your shows the other week, so establish a little bit of relationship with various AFL Kate Brian Smith. He's the coach in the NRL. I've got a lot from meeting with him and he's a coach runner up a couple of times we say GA or a Parramatta, went coach in the Warriors. He's an underrated coach never won a championship. I think one of the best coaches I've ever met. I learned a lot from him. Then he's going to travel into the US friends with Brett Brown I go, who coached Australia were assistant coaches together. He coached San Antonio's assistant for 11 years. Philly for five years back to San Antonio got a great friendship. We have discussions, someone one of my assistants is now David Carter is at the Chicago Bulls were consistently asked I asked questions I asked for video, Larry Brown, the only coach ever to coach the NCAA championship and NBA championship. I visited colleges. One of the greatest things, Paul, that ever happened to me, I was going to see Beretta Philadelphia and about five or six would have been 2016 before the Olympics, for my own personal development, and a friend of mine and it guys did come down to SMU, which I'd been there before. And I met Larry Brown, and we had a great discussion to meet Larry Brown and Popovich they're like God to us by those guys. Basketball Coaches. They're They're almost 80 years of age with the sharpest tax and they've got all the experience and knowledge and made I didn't want to leave him and so I go back to the hotel, he knows I'm going to Philly and he learns that Philly snowed in so they're not allowed on commercial flights. So he says to one of the boys he says ring Brennan it was a good discussion. Let's get him on our plane and we'll make sure we get into Philly so you can get there in time to be with Brett plus bring him to the game. They're playing temple they weren't at in game straight. And so I get on the I get it. My wife goes I don't know. I don't know if you want to go on a plane and I go, I'm going on this plane is Larry Brown is invited. I'll get on this plane. So I get on the plane. He goes sit with me. So three and a half hours, four hours like from from Dallas, Texas to Philadelphia, we're just talking basketball. I'm showing a video of the Opals play in Japan. I'm showing in the overall style of play. He's showing me stuff that you know SMU is talking about when he coached Detroit for the championship, individual players. That was the greatest education of all time. Sorry. But yeah, you're bringing back some memories by asking these questions of great moments where I got education and learning from some of the best some of the best
Paul Barnett 09:51
friends and feel free to ramble. Feel free to ramble. It's a great
Brendan Joyce 09:57
so my point is, yeah, you can have a level of self confidence and belief, but you got to be open to others and be a lifelong learner. Brendan, I've
Paul Barnett 10:04
got this interesting quote from your blog to explore you say, process is the key word stay focused on the process. That's my philosophy, the process of executing the offensive the process of the defensive, the process of planning each game, and I wanted to ask you, how do you balance this focus on a process with the lateral thinking needed to sometimes be creative to get over the opposition?
Brendan Joyce 10:28
Yeah, and again, I think both are important, you're on the money there. And we'll talk about both,
you have to have some sort of process if you know what you're doing. If you've got if you're competent, you have an idea of what it takes to be successful. And the more experienced you become, as a coach, if you continue to have success, the better you are at it, and you know, what works and what doesn't work. So obviously, you're going to keep focused on the process of things that do work, and then maybe adjust accordingly, Agent save, depending on the needs of whether it be, what team, you're coaching, what level you're coaching, what country you're coaching, Is it male or female, you definitely have to make adjustments. But there is a, I guess, a part that that is consistent. And for example, when I made my process, I always start out with a mission set goals, have an action plan, these are the things culture is important. And you talked about the season. So you plan out the season, you know, you're playing, and then you've got your scout, right. So it's game by game. So attention to detail of who you're playing against what your strengths and weaknesses are. So that's preparation, right? And the season, obviously, you know, fitness, all those things, you've got to be prepared. But then as you say, you better have the ability to be creative, because there's always challenges along the way that you need to adjust. [PB4]
Going back to Tom Penrose, the game coach, you have a plan, it's not going according to plan, then you have to adjust and be creative. But I think at the end of the day, if I talk about probably I'm just trying to think now, I think the the best thing is to if you want creativity, not only from yourself, you want to encourage it with the players, I think players have to first of all understand what their strengths are, I think, and we got to understand our strengths as a team. So that's part of the plane.
As you know, the opposition takes away your strengths. So then you have to adjust that call or creativity, or call it preparation for those challenges and obstacles as well we do prepare for that, again, sometimes there are players that just have abilities, that definitely don't really need to be part of your system, to play to their strengths. So you have to allow them to be creative. So it's a balancing act between being too structured, and then allowing players to be who they are. And I think it's the same with me, as a coach, you don't want to be that strict and strong about your system, your systems got to be flexible, depending on the challenges that are ahead. So with that, I really try and find that balancing out from a player's to obviously, okay, they're playing within the structure. But each I say to every one of you, you're here, because you do something well, yeah, what do you do well, and I get them to tell them. And if they don't, then I tell them and I say well, the way I've put together our structural style players that you're here because you do something well, so when an opportunity arises, you go for it. And then someone could get hot, as you know, players get hot, you could go into that play, right, you don't have to worry about the rest of the structure, you milk it a little bit. So you're allowing them to take control, right, you're allowing them you're empowering them to take control of the game and also lead and be accountable for the leadership of what's going on out there. Not just me as the coach on the sideline.[PB5] [PB6]
Paul Barnett 13:22
Brendon, I know that you're a values driven leader, can you tell us about your core values and why they're so important to you?
Brendan Joyce 13:29
Yeah, I think it not only comes from your playing experience, where your coaching experience, I mean, your core solid core values come from the upbringing. So I come from a working class family and my dad had two or three jobs, we had seven kids six, well, we had seven kids, I got to stay private, longer with us. So you know, there are a lot of money to feed back in the day. And then even mom take care of the kids, she would even do a cleaning job at night with him. I just have this, this is always still for us to survive. Right. Back in the day. In the 60s. I have the late 60s, obviously, and 70s. So I saw my parents work hard to put food on the table and to support us. So and I think that's the beginning of a strong work ethic. Also my grandparents, they worked hard. There's a level of honesty within the family, the coaches, I had gotten back the bonds in column D, we used to have hard conversations.
So work ethic. Honesty is very important, from my point of view, never giving up. And again, parents played a big role there. But a big part of this never given up comes from my great grandfather growing up in the 60s like he was in two world wars. And he put his age up for the first world war went to 16 in the Navy. And in the Second World War. He put his age down now he had four kids and went off to war to fight the Japanese in Singapore. And he was a prisoner of war. He was caught. He was made to build like a lot of soldiers the Burma railway. And he was a prisoner of war for a few years and is I haven't got the photograph and every now and then I'll talk to the team about this about not give it up and it basketballs really a small part of why you shouldn't go out. And I talked about my grandfather, because there's a photo of him blowing on his back, almost probably another month. If the war is not over, he doesn't survive. Now he comes home. And my mom would recommend it to me all the time. And he would remind me, don't you ever give up or I just, it just stays with me. And I know about what happened to him, you know, the torture and it was just because of a cultural differences at the time how the Japanese looked at prisoners as we know now, but that's had a big influence on me about never giving up, my teenagers never give up. And they know that they won't play if I see them stop or came out or play it coming out. And it's a big part of it. [PB7]
Discipline outside is probably a fourth one I'm talking about. There's probably seven or eight. But I'll just rattle off a few the discipline to going back to focus on the detail but the discipline repeat yourself. So you can be the best you can be when you get out there taking care of yourself. I mean, this will means a lot of words, following the plan, until we need to adjust trying to make it work professional on and off the court, a two way player from a basketball sense. Now you say defense is very important. It's not just offense, the character plays the two way players, we've got to focus on defense as well. Because everybody you just see, look at the highlight reel, most of the time, it's scoring, right bounce and things like that every now and then you've got a block shot, or you'll never see a player can just contain a guy, although I did happen to see Ben Simmons today. Look at it, some clips of him just containing guys are twisting and turning them on, on defense. I love that. So it's underrated and obviously family.
Family
And the last one. family's important. I talked to the players a bit that we try and put family first. And I think that's part of my babies, we try and translate that to the importance of that. Because if they're happy at home, and they're part of their family, and sometimes the highs and lows, I haven't got the answers to support, it's important that they go to their family for their support through the highs and lows just like I did. And going back to the culture for Team values, as you say. So these are my values you asked about. I always create an environment where we develop a team team values as the players are empowered to come up with their own values. So they live it not my values. I don't expect them to live my values. But it's they all they did us like it was really we're talking about cultural values. The first time I got to Taiwan last year, they said, Coach, what do you expect from us? And to be back a little bit? I'm like, oh, wait a minute. No, no, I just want to know, we're going to put no load. But what do you expect from us? It was an interesting question. So I had to share some of those values just asked about Paul.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 17:22
It's interesting listening that story about your grandfather, this whole idea of persistence and never giving up because one of the things that comes through when I was preparing for today and reading about you is when it comes to your style, at least on paper and the Division I could see, you seem to be very good at finding that line between pushing people pushing them to develop making them uncomfortable getting them out on the edge, but also knowing when to pull back so that it doesn't become too aggressive or too coach LED. And I'm just wondering if someone was listening and wanted to get better at this, you know, this idea of finding that sweet spot between pushing someone but also empowering them. What would you tell them? Yeah,
Brendan Joyce 18:04
I think Brian Borden was really good at that poll. Being his assistant coach or with the boomers I can appoint sometimes I'd worry he pushed the team on that call, again, injury here, but I knew myself when I came to my club. I was doing the same thing at times. But when you're assisting case, you've probably looked at it a little bit more.
But yeah, it's a real balancing act. I think building a relationship with a plan. So how do you do that? It's not just a matter of coaching, okay, you have to have for me, and I got this from Brian Smith probably really increased my ability to communicate Brian Smith, the great NRL coach. This is what you learn from being other coaches. Smitty had this questionnaire or what call it he called it a goal sheet I call it a preparation sheet I've adjusted a little bit and I asked for players to set their goals asked me about what they did this week. Tips for goals individual goals that they go for and then they aspire for boats got it within the concept to help us winds get the performance of helping the team win, which I talked to him about because they will come up with different things that beginning I'm going to score 25 points, I'm going to get 15 rebounds and I remember one guy saying you're not going to get those any you just see his face during said because you're not gonna play enough minutes. Right? And ice say but let's let's focus on I said you're you're pretty important to us and you're a prolific rebounder and I say gooery bands get one every four minutes right rebounds get ready every three minutes. Dennis Romans the greatest of all time, get one every two minutes. So let's fight focus on rebounds per minutes play and he became like a rebounder, he picked up easy points. Like I said, let's talk about how you're going to get your points a great shooter run the lines. And anyway, that's just an example of communicating goals, right? That that need you need to fit within your team to play that role for your success. And that was a player off the bat. So with that, fill it out that that requires face to face communication, not just to give you the piece of paper you read and go back to him and go that was good. So we have one on one meetings and again, I failed that that's been if you want to call it this secret to winning. I don't know if it's a secret, but it's been massive for me. And I, most of the players have loved it. They're all the players I've talked to over the years. They're Taiwanese guys, they love it, I have a translator. So it makes it sometimes a little bit more difficult to translate, but we get the messages across. And with that you build, you build that trust, right? You build that trust. So it allows you, I think, with the trust to push the players, they know you're there to try and help them get better.
Challenge
Another thing is be consistent. You have to be consistent. You can't be inconsistent. I hate coaches that play mind games. So I don't play mind games. I've seen consistent messages done player coaches think they're really smart, right? I'm gonna play my game. And I've had players, I've had coaches say to me, especially us, how are you going to trick them, you've got to trick and tell them what they want to hear to get the job done. It's really interesting, right? The philosophy and where they come from, and how they, I felt I've coached Americans, right. And hard kids, tough kids. And at the end of the day, they might not like my messaging at the beginning, the honest they don't back to that. But I know and they've walked away, and they've said, You've had respect because you've been consistent. So I say be consistent. As I just touched on a system with goals, that trust allows you to privilege, it's a privilege for us coaches to be able to push our players. That's how I see it. So you build that trust. And then how do you set that up? What is pushing your players to the limit, we can't do it the whole practice session. But I'll have parts of the practice session where all the players and I'll tell them to, to get up and play physical and then I probably escalate the situation to the point where it's above what they will have what will happen in the game, as far as pressure. So preparing them for pressure. And then as you say, when to pull back. So it's not the whole practice session. And it might not be you might not do it for a couple of days usually pick a part of a practice session, because it is dangerous. You can get players into because their natural juices, their competitors, I take a right. That gets to a point where I tried to get Nokia physical and you've got to pull it, you got to know when to pull it back. So I'm sharing with you, I'm just sharing with you how I do it.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 22:02
I think it's definitely a skill. And I think this whole idea of trust. And being consistent is the basis for the relationship that allows you to push someone sounds to me spot on. But I want to go back to your playing career for a minute. And I want to pick up on this idea about how you were treated in this space. Because I've got this. It's a great quote, actually it does. I don't quite know when it was, but I know it comes from your time as a player and you said, I know my own challenges weren't really my opponent. Most of the time, it's yourself. It's your demons, you carried yourself. And I wanted to ask you now that you're a coach, and you've referenced your age, so I think we can put it out there again, you've got the 60 you've got this wealth of experience. You've coached all over the world, knowing what you know, now, how do you help players deal with their own demons?
Brendan Joyce 22:48
Yeah, well, let's go back to self belief a little bit. Why don't my guys idolize that particular person, I always grown up as a kid, my dad used to actually teach boxes. So a person I idolized was Muhammad Ali. He obviously portrayed a level of confidence and belief whether it was outwardly but inwardly would did he have anything did he doubt and so most most people do, but come towards you, especially being a boxer, you certainly can't reject the fact that you're second guessing yourself. But as a kid, I'm watching it all down. I love this self belief, and what have you achieved that just totally spoke, but then when you get into when you stop performing in sport yourself, you can have that belief, but obviously, there's gonna be a lot of things, it's gonna bring you back to Earth, like you're gonna get beat, right? You're gonna get me or there's somebody better than you. So how do you deal with it and along the way, I think when, even though you have that self belief, you do tend to overcome it, but you stop being self critical, very critical of oneself.
And I've seen this with a lot of players critiquing themselves internally, which had obviously impact on their own confidence and their ability to perform. So given the psychology, I went a little bit, which I did a little bit of that when I went back to uni, and my supplies will tell you, I think they're not the best until they're about 2728 and beyond, because they over, over worrying about everything they were worried about little things. I think more and more my demons were quick being critical, but and it might surprise people critical of myself in sight, just overanalyzing trying to fix it to a point where Okay, I just need to focus on these things and do these things do what I do well, which I got that coach and then not worry about other people's opinions because especially today, I think it's even more critical that there's a self belief and to provide support the athletes because once the internet got involved, the abuse or call or abuse on an athlete's performance is just out of control through social media. So I think most great players are great, great athletes, they usually are very critical and self and self analyze and it's got to be to the point where you have to be very careful. There's a there's a line that they need support they need obviously to say how you are going to remind them you know, going back to focus on your strengths and all those sort of things and and reinforce, there are things that I think that that are really important and say a lot of players, it takes a while to overcome that the younger the age, you can, the younger players can do that, or athletes can do that. [PB10] [PB11]
Obviously, the more the earlier they're going to be. I mean, obviously, we've seen a lot of great young athletes have the ability to do this, because they've, they've gotten the support, they've got the strategies. And for me, if I take someone's really down, and you've probably heard this before, I'm pulling out the highlight tape, I'm pulling out, and I'm showing these kids, this is what you are good at, look at yourself, look at how good you are here. Don't worry about what anyone else says keep things simple, don't overcomplicate it, because I had these demons myself, right. So and I think that's an advantage I have from being a player to then taking that into coaching. Not all, not all coaches ever have been a player, but they can study that and learn that as well. But it's a little bit of advantage. I think when you have played it, you've gone through the pressure yourself, you understand what it really feels like to be under pressure. So you have empathy for what's going on is a strong word as well, but just assist them to maintain a belief and help them get out of their internal demons as quickly as possible. To get the best out of[PB12]
Paul Barnett 26:04
talking about the highlight tape. There's of course, the 2001 premiership with the with the Hawks, when you look back on that experience now, how did it shape your approach to leadership going forward?
Brendan Joyce 26:16
I think when you have success, you there's a lot of learnings in success, you'd rather have those learnings from success and failures, right? So you knew you're doing some things right? So again, we talked about going back to the process of what works, get rid of what doesn't work continue what does work. And I think a big part of that success. By then I'd had players we've gone from the bottom to the top five years, we build out our championship, we didn't buy it, you know, we were we were probably pick seven. In the team of 14 that year, we finished fourth, we had to go through big teams to where we had to beat Perth in Perth with the team and only that once in its history to get to to move through then we had to beat Adelaide in Adelaide, which I think the club in LA don't want or two times in its history, and then we will have to win games on the road. So for me, the learnings from that was that year, I knew we weren't going to be the best team. So I did a lot of preparation on close games, the ability to handle pressure going back to what we talked about before, right? That was pressure situations and to execute under pressure and close games that year. Paul, we weren't 12 games, I think by less than four or five points. Like to get home record, I'm trying to think we were 20. I can't remember I think we're 21 and seven. But we had a better a way record than a home record. And I'd say it all the time. You can't win the championship. You can't win on the road. The horse history is if you go back to it, they would only win at home before I got the right they only went home games. So I had it I was obsessed about changing the mindset and having the ability to handle pressure when on the road. And I do this with my team here in Taiwan. You know, I walk in here, head up, chest out with a road warriors, it's you develop this mentality and we will call the Road Warriors. In the end they will call us the road warriors in the media halfway through the season. They'll call us the cardiac kids which they go back to Sydney to with Kimora to play with. But I know Tim Morrissey is a friend now who was the enemy as a player by going to play guys who writes for I think this is I want to get the pet newspaper run. But he writes one of the big Sydney newspapers, he started referring to us, the cardiac kids, we get down to the last guy in game three, with four points down. With three and a half minutes ago, we had some challenges along the way. But I won't go into detail about what I call a timeout. And I look at the guys and I go, Hey, we're right where we want to be we've got we've come from idea. And they're all nodding their heads, right? But it is, this is what we got to do. And one of the goals had to play that well really, I'd sat him down to calm down. He was very, very physical. Get angry with himself, Melvin Thomas, one of the best players I've ever coach should be in the Hall of Fame will be I think for Australian basketball, not easy to play to coach, very emotional guy. And he could just see the look in his eyes, nodded his head, went out there and took a rebound score just a month two guys, and now we've gone in front and history tells you everything about it. So you know there's great lessons there. Obviously, you know, why not? Yeah, and I talk to you for hours about this board or one on one communication, ability to win close games, look, culture, the values, the system, the empowering, there's so many things. I need an hour to talk to you about a championship winning team Mike Brennan off a few there. Right. So in the unity sorry, the other one, let's not forget this. Cameras, clean chemistry, team chemistry. So we weren't the best team as far as talent wise, but we talked about having high enthusiasm, high effort. And again, that was something I learned from Brian Smith as well going back four or five years earlier, you learn from other coaches about just calculating, doing the little things as coaches would say, for success if you're not the most talented team. So we had great team chemistry, great, great bond between us. And the same level in Taiwan. We have an entire one the secret of building team chemistry. Is that what you're asking? Yeah, I have a process and strategy for that. I've got a PowerPoint, structured PowerPoint process for building and I've continued that. And that was the challenge. Could I do this in Taiwan? Could I do it in another country under a different culture, I fortunate I've got a translator, who's just sensational. I'm very lucky. He went to school. It was constant college in America, Taiwanese kid speaks English. And he's been able to translate a lot of it, although a lot of the kids do understand English. But could I could I have them play I guess under the culture and DEVELOP team chemistry like I do in Australia. So one of the things I spoke to me about I said, we're not a toy release team. They all fit me. Hang on, we're all toys. I said, Now, 11 of you are Taiwanese, I've got two Americans, I've got a Lithuanian. I've got a Filipino American who went to school and nominalism. So we're going to develop an international culture, we're going to develop international team chemistry. And so I have a process and talk to me about how powerful you can be when you have that spiritual connection, a better results, the different results you can get if you cohesive and you're set goals. And you have that focus of what I call playing with the power of five players, five players on the court. So there's only three or four and they're superstars, and one of the superstars hasn't come to play even if we're not as talented and power of five. So five to the power of five is a lot more powerful than four to the power of five right even mathematically. That's why it's misspoke about this. And so I've carried that my great friend who's no longer with us, Danny for all your coaches great St Kilda, football. Your analogy, right coach Richmond after he won the championship in 2001. Because I coached at Ballarat, I met Danny he has you know, Isabella was a Ballarat boy. He rang me up, he said, Dr. Brennan, I want you to come down and speak to the Tigers. Mike, I want you to speak to the players that are Danny Well, we I just finished yesterday, man, I want to celebrate you guys now we've got this big game coming up. And we've got to win this game. I think we win this game. We haven't made the finals two years 2001. Richmond ever made the finals since 1981. And I look back and be interested in the top of some of the guys because I went down there and spoke to him in the change room and I loved it. I loved it. Right? It was bad. He goes there the CEO is rich out ready Richardson's in the in that change room. There's so many great names. And he said to me, they said him. He said I want you to share with them why you're successful. Warren gone. You weren't the best team. So some of the things are what you're asking me about. So I told him a few. I told him a couple stories, not just about coaching. But when I was growing up as a kid, and I won't get into detail, but Danny said to me, I said we're gonna go back here, so I'm not sure we get down and then he goes, Oh, we got to win. It's like who you're playing? That's kind of like, I'll be the Calvin. Okay. So we spoke to him, we went out, they beat Carlton, I've actually got this got to be set to be last year, Michelle branding on if you remember her, she used to play the outdoors. And she's done a lot of work for Richmond, she got me a copy of it. So I'm actually got a copy of it. I don't know if you can play all of it today, right? Because we're in a change room with a bunch of blokes, right? I look at it now. And then the sad thing is, for me, my relationship with Danny and Danny coming to me and talking about me at the end of the guys. It's heartwarming, and it presents me with the Richmond toys, football jump. It's got all the signatures of the players, I gave that to Colin, Cadiz wife, who's one of my greatest coaches I've ever played for, who's so passionate about Richmond sessions got that on the wall at home with all those boys names. So I've gone off track again, poor. But yeah, it's just so important. The self belief part of it is so, so important. Feel
Paul Barnett 33:27
free to go off track as much as you like, particularly when we talk about Danny Frawley, because of course, I haven't got the name of the disease at my fingertips. But it's the concussion related brain injuries and unfortunately Brendon, I want to talk a little bit about cohesion because it comes up quite a lot in these interviews. And I'm wondering what you've learned about the fuel, or the nutrients, or the energies probably a better way of describing it that keeps cohesion smooth.
Brendan Joyce 34:00
Yeah, is cohesion. What does it actually mean? I think for me, they have to understand what cohesion is. And it's an important part of team chemistry is important part of success. So I really have clarity, I think on identifying the role of each player. So if each player does actually understand their role, and we talked about you, I love the word you use creativity, you got to make sure you're allowed that but that there has to be an understanding of one's strengths and weaknesses and your opponent's strengths or weaknesses. But we're talking about team and chemistry. It's more about understanding your own strengths and weaknesses, but also those of your teammates, because sometimes as you know everyone, everybody's great at everything, but the sum of all the parts are what help you be successful. I go back to that PowerPoint is so so understanding the roles and the different strengths and weaknesses of not only yourself but each team member. You get that a lot of time by playing together. But you can escalate that obviously if you communicate about it and his clarity in those areas as a coach, explaining that to the players.[PB13]
Paul Barnett 34:59
Brenden, if I could take you back there had a time machine. And I could take you back and introduce you to that kid that was running around the streets of Collingwood, who had seven brothers and sisters that a grandfather who was coming home with home from the wars, and if I can introduce you to that person, knowing what you know now, what would you say to him?
Brendan Joyce 35:19
Well done. You've done okay, mate, you bet it's not over, keep learning keep getting better. But look, I never expected myself to be a coach. I grew up wanting to be a Collingwood Football, play for kollywood. It's I played a lot of footy. So but I think I've done all right, but keep trying to get better. That's what I'd say to always keep trying to get better.
Paul Barnett 35:39
To Brennan. One last question. Maybe before we finish up, you're in your second year there in Taiwan, you won the championship in your first year. So I assume you've got a little bit of time to go. But in the distant, distant future, when you do hang up the whistle, if you ever do hang up the whistle, because it seems great coaches just keep going on and on and on and on. What's the legacy you hope you've left behind as a coach?
Brendan Joyce 36:01
It's not necessarily just about winning championships. It's about I think, helping people be the best they can be as as a player, I guess, on coaching basketball, but it's not hear this from players. We ended up developing, I think players is painful because of what they go through the challenges, right? So developing resilience. And you do tend to build a pretty close relationship. And it's saying that not always because, you know, sometimes you have to make some decisions, hard decisions, hold people accountable, which I've done over the years. And I know it hasn't been proper. But I hope that those players look back and understand that I just thought it was all about them, trying to be the best player they can be. And the thought process was about trying to be the best person they could become. So that's what I'd hoped my legacy would be that I helped others get better and help them build resilience and become a better person, I think. And with that, you get respect. And I hope it's respect down the track.[PB14]
Paul Barnett 36:56
Brendon, it's been great chatting with you today. Thanks for carving out some time on your day off. Good luck for the season ahead. And I hope it's back to back premierships.
Brendan Joyce 37:04
Yeah, thanks very much. Paul has been a privilege to speak on this show. I've listened to for quite a few. You've had some amazing people and I'll continue to listen to it. So I see the privilege been asked to to talk about these things as well because it's not like you go back to you said about you know, trying to get better. I think when you actually have reflect on what you've done that helps you become a better player, a better person, a better coach as well. Thanks, Brandon. Thank you