Brian Goorjian podcastle edit
Mon, Feb 24, 2025 10:13AM • 56:28
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Leadership, coaching philosophy, Lindsay Gaze, work ethic, team culture, player development, international basketball, empowerment, communication, competitive spirit, personal growth, coaching legacy, team dynamics, game strategy, player relationships.
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Brian Goorjian
Paul Barnett 00:00
Well, Brian Gordon, good afternoon, and welcome to the great coaches podcast. Looking forward to it. I'm very happy to get you on your day off. I know it's been a hectic season for you with the kings, and I'm I'm glad you've found a few minutes to carve out some space to talk leadership with us. Brian, can I start by just name checking a couple of the big name coaches you've been involved with. You came to Australia with Lindsay gays. You've worked with Michael Dunlap, a great coach who we've also interviewed on the show, Ken Watson, and then there's Brian curl in there as well. And I'm sure there's tons of other great coaches from many different sports that you've interacted with as well, but just an easy one to get us going. What is it you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Brian Goorjian 00:48
Well, I mean, when you mentioned the Australian because I think that coming from America and coming to Australia, and the key figure for me, the guy that picked me up at the airport, is probably the greatest coach in Australians. I had no idea getting off the plane, but in in Australian history, not only playing Coaching International was Lindsey gays. And Lindsey gays was the one that brought me over here and through Lindsey gays, you know, meeting Brian curl, Barry, Barnet, Adrian Hurley. There was a group there, but the one I knew and around, what with the day to day that I think represents and answers your question the best? Because there was kind of a common theme with that coming from America. They were all paid. It was a full time job, high just just, it was almost like a business. And then when I walked into the stadium at Albert Park, Lindsay picked me up, and you look like I was, you know, t shirt, shorts, really, in casual that I remember that, you know what, stepping in the car. This is the head coach. It was like an old, beat up Ford drive to Albert Park, where the basketball court is. And I'd never stepped in a court where there's nine basketball courts, and I'm looking at where, you know, like I was never seen anything like it, and then I ended up living in the house that was hooked on to the basketball court, and got up, I mean, I remember the first Basketball session, he said, you know, just get changed, and we'll play some three on three. And I'm thinking, well, who's going to play? And, you know, like he played into me at that time. It's like Andrew and Lindsay looked 60 when they were 40, you know, and they, they still it. Lindsay at 75 looked the exact same, you know, Andrew looks like he did right now when he played. So I was just taken away by his ability on the cork for his age. And then after we finished, you know, he, he, he ran the canteen. His wife ran the key canteen. His wife made the uniforms, some relationship, brother or father was in front, where the cars parked, taking the, you know, the coins for, for, you know, you parking the car. And then I remember watching games that night. We were having team practice the next morning, and I come in, and it was fairly early in the morning, and Lindsay was on the sideline, and these kids were young, and he's coaching these kids. And then after the we got finished, he's mopping the floor before we come on the court, and then he would coach us, and then also play with us, you know, okay, now we're playing five on five. We're going to scrimmage. We're going to so an aspect of it that I was not used to. You talk about the love of the game. All those guys had incredible passion for the game and love of the game. And then, you know, the other thing that really stood with me, and I go to Lindsay, and I'm just again Lindsay as his incredible knowledge, as far as all aspects of life, the government, World Politics, different languages, different countries, and then his thirst to evolve as a coach. So you take a. Trillion rules football here, which was, you know, there's an environment to learn in the basketball Lindsay was ahead of everybody else. So I'm looking and I remember, you know, because I'm not, I'm a I'm a man. Now I'm 24 years old. I'm becoming a man. So I'm not a kid. I'm watching him and evaluating because I my thought process was, when I finished school that I was going to go into COVID, a high school coach and a PE teacher, that kind of thing. And I got it offered to play, so I'm going to play longer, but I knew eventually I'm going to get it, I'm going to become a coach, and so I'm taking thinking along those lines when I'm with a guy now, here I am in Australia, thinking that I'm not going to be in an environment that I could learn from, and here's a guy that's highly intelligent, teaching me things in our sport that I was never taught in America, and then gravitating and learning and growing through contacts in America, bringing systems, bringing style of play, bringing you know schemes offensively and defensively from people he was contacting in America and studying and bringing it across the year, which was unheard of at the time. And then what we would do, a lot of the other teams would take aspects of what he did and learn through Lindsey, so that the the love of the game, the constant thirst to learn. And then I just thought the other thing, no ego, absolutely. I came from an environment where, you know, the coach, you know, call me Mr. Such and such. You know, it's like, do exactly what I say, keep your mouth shut. Where with Lindsay, it was like sharing, communicating, care. You know, how's your apartment? Is your car? You know, is your car? Okay? Are you eating good? When's your wife coming? You know he there was a a concern for you and a caring for you. And I, I learned these, and I take, you know, pride in things that I picked up from him outside of the game, like when I lost, when I played for him, when I lost, it touched my it really hurt me to see him lose, and I, and I, I hadn't really experienced that when I was playing in college, when I was playing a little bit after college, I never looked at the guy in that manner where I hated to see I hate to lose, But I also hated to see Lindsay loose. So he generated a way. He was very confident in his craft. He was constantly improving. He had a love of the game, and he somehow, in the way he handled people, develop an environment where you loved him. And these things, a lot of times, they're not talked about, but they're, they're things that I took from him, um, to where I went when I started in coaching.
Paul Barnett 08:33
Well, let's jump forward to that starting in coaching, because I understand it was also Lindsey that helped you get your first job in coaching, which was with Ballarat looking back, what do you remember about that experience now? One
Brian Goorjian 08:47
is, when I finished planning that it was a, you know, certain things or, or you're where you're fortunate, you know, and I was, I knew I was coming to the end of the plane. Do I go back to America and go to where I just talked about, go to a high school, start as the high school basketball coach, and get back to what my degree was. Or do I stay and and and try to get something going in Australia. And I loved Australia. I did not want to go home, but there, when I was playing there, really, I didn't, where do I go with this? Because the assistant coaching jobs in the leagues that we were playing in, there was no there was no head jobs, and there was no pain assistant position. And all of a sudden, they started a second division and brought a cut a bunch of country teams in, and I was in. It was summer. We just finished the season, and I was weighing out what I was going to do, and I got a phone call from Lindsay saying, you know, I've coached you for this amount of time. I see potential. Still in you. And there's an opportunity in Ballarat, and it's a really well run organization. The guys are really professional up there, and I think you'd really enjoy it and do a good job for them. So it ended up being the best thing that I ever did, and the Ballarat was run unbelievably professional, and I got an opportunity to coach young guys at the very start, you know, and with no expectation, and coming in trying to put a program together that was competitive with the Melbourne's nut of wadding COVID, starting from from ground level. So yeah, it was in Mike Dunlap. There's a lot of things that come into play, some great stories, but it's once I got that position, I flew to the United States and did like a two week course, and then I my dad was the head coach of Loyola University, and Mike Dunlap was the assistant. And just got done playing for my father, and that's where, where Mike and I met each other,
Paul Barnett 11:20
one of the most remarkable stats from your career is that from 1990 to 2009 your teams finish no worse than the semi finals. The same thing then happens when you go off and get involved with teams in China and the Philippines. It's it's a really great serial success that you've had, but Can I spin it around a bit, Brian and just ask you, when ex players come to you for advice, when they're starting in their first head coach role, they're starting in their first leadership role with a new club, what do you tell them?
Brian Goorjian 11:55
Well, I'm I got a great, a great story that that kind of tells my philosophy. When I started in it, I went to when I went to this course, and I did it basically when I finished with it, the at that time it was when you go back there Aussies, like camper vans, like a fish. It's a great life over there. They do their work and they enjoy their their enjoyment time outwork them. That was, you know, if they get up at eight o'clock, you get up at seven. You know, if they train three times a week, you train five. So I got off and went, got off the plane, came back into drove up to Ballarat and put a program together a day to day that nobody was doing. You know, mornings these kids will all live local, on their bikes, come in, do workouts, come everybody was in the Second Division was training twice a week and playing on the weekends. We were training every day. And so that I'll never I'll I'll never forget just the story to finish that one, because it started. And I say this to the coaches, work ethic is it's come through in my in my in this so many times, China, when I started in it, putting in the work is a real important aspect of it. And this guy came and visited me. And after I started and was following the team, came up to Ballarat and spent some time with me. And then I remember I was so worn out when this guy was ready to leave. I mean, he when I get up, he was already up. You know, when I when I go to the practice session, he's there, you know, when I finished, he's up at night, in my ear. He was there for a week. I was driving in back from Ballarat to the airport, and, you know, real louder, you know, hey, when I you know, when I see this, you know you you know you need more, more pressure on the ball. You gotta, you know that voice, that you know, that energy in the car, in your house at night, he's in the car, and we're driving, and I'll never forget, I'm going down King's way, and I pull into the petrol station, and this is in the 70s, early 80s, and I get out of the petrol station, and we're back in the car going to the airport. And he looks at me, and he goes, If I lived in Australia, I'd be a millionaire. And I look at him, and I go, Well, I've been here for, you know, 15 years. I don't have a dime. Talk to me about it. What do you got for me? He said I'd open up a service station next to this dude. And I, and I'm looking at him, think, because I'm so used to Australia. He goes, imagine, he goes, he's got fudge on his thing. He's got cinnamon on his shirt. He's smoking. He's sitting on his big butt. It has the energy a little Abner. He goes, imagine if you had a place across the street and you had guys decked out in their stuff. You get off the you pull up, and they put air in your tires. They say, how are you having a good day? They take your credit card to bring it back, put it in there and shake your hand. He said, that's how you can win here. So that philosophy towards the game was a big one. And I always talk about that first, because that was the first thing that was hit with me. And I tie it over when I went to China, and I'm with Yao Ming, and I'm with Gigi Wang, and I'm with all these guys with the national team. They don't, you know, speak English, and you've got a bunch of guys there. How do you get their respect when you can't communicate with them? So that the que, what I had to do there is a lot of times, how I answer your question, it start like, I can't say, How's your wife, how's your I can't communicate. So you got these guys work ethic, you know, they come in the gym. You're there. They leave the gym. You're there. The video, you know, I come in and I sit down with Gigi and say, Hey, man, you know, like this, this move here and show cut ups that I've taken in practice and showed it to them. And if you dis this little counter move to what you're doing here, because what you realize is that everyone wants to get better. And now those guys, he works hard and he's competent.
So the second aspect I always say, you know, to young ones, you got to get competent craft players, know, if you're faking it, so you need to have a strong work ethic. You need to get competent in your craft. How do you get confident in your craft? And you and I talked beforehand. I'm still working on that, with being around, you know, Eddie Jones, being around and being around Luke Beveridge, being about Neil Craig Mike Dunlap, having a circle of influence around you that are knowledgeable, that you can grow from and continue to improve and involve. And I'm taking that, I mean, I'm, you know, you're 72 years old, and you're saying, If I don't grow with game. If I don't improve my skills, I'm going to be left behind. So your circle of influence, the people around you, [PB1]
and then the third, the being competent in your craft, work ethic.
And then a real important aspect, I think, now, of coaching, I think of what I'm looking for as an assistant, a lot of guys have been up, and I'm not taking away from that, but the people, the interaction part is, is, is a big part to this now, about about leadership, about confidence, about your team, I think, is having a coach or you being able? Can you, can you come into a locker room and and relay it? Can you sit on the baseline when a guy is playing, pull him over to the side and get him to do what you want to do? Can you call out the best player and and sit down with him and communicate a lot of coaches. I feel like in this, I there's a they hide behind the computer. You know, they're, they're always, you know, they're sitting there, they're doing this, and you got a forest fire going on here, and you go, Hey, man, this guy needs, needs your voice, needs your time, needs your your your personal touch and that aspect to a coach, um, and especially in in today, you know, I look at how it was 20 years ago, and today, the people that come to me now, if you said, God, he's really smart, he's really elite, he's really good On the scout, you know, he's really good at picking up detail on but he, he struggles on the baseline. He struggles, you know, on the individual skill work, that aspect. [PB2]
So, you know, there's, there's three or four things that I think are really important in, in in becoming a leader and becoming a coach.
Paul Barnett 19:23
Can I take, take it beyond the technical skills? Now, so we've talked about, you've set up. You came here as a player. You went into your first job. You've got this great work ethic, good technical skills. You coach Australia, once you come back. And leading into Athens, we talked you talked about it before the rose gold. But leading into Athens, there was lots of articles I read where you talked about and use this word time and time again, the culture of the green and gold, and you wanted to improve it and develop it. Now it's so it's such a strange word. It means so many different things. I understand that. But Brian, could you tell us? How you went about building that culture back up again that ultimately led to the success that we saw in Athens,
Brian Goorjian 20:05
yeah, in a really good, probably the really important time in my life, in coaching. And if you go back, and this is lessons learned. Now, being an international coach for a long period of time, I'd only coach domestically, and a huge mistake made in this country is is international basketball works in four year cycles. And the last thing you want when you talk about green, green and gold and culture is everyone retiring at the same time. So you need guys spitting out, guys coming in to replace the leaders and young ones. And it works like a conveyor belt to keep the culture that it is whether going so they're touching each other. So what you had after Sydney Olympics was everyone stayed and wanted to play in those Olympics, and they didn't call out the ones that needed to move on. They let them hang on and play that extra Olympics. So after that Olympics was finished, everyone retired at the same time. Our household name, Shane Hill, Andrew gays, flaw, bradke, all of them gone at that period of time. Shane ended up coming back to help, but it he retired at that time, and then we went to qualify for the worlds, and we lost to New Zealand, which was unheard of, and Phil Smith was let go, and they brought me in. And so when I started in it, that's where. And I kept trying to what you need to do to the media, to everybody, is we're not that team finished fourth. We're not a continuation of that. This thing, you've got to develop a culture and a style of play, because it's, it's, we're starting from from zero.
So the guys that we had coming into this thing have never been a boomer, never been an international player. Have no idea what the green and gold is, and now I'm so there was no there was a culture there that Andrew gays, vlaha, Brad pie, but it doesn't exist anymore because nobody's touched it. Nobody's felt it. So when I started in it, it was like, we've gotta find a way to be competitive with a bunch of guys that have never played internationally. So it started with things that all involved the non controllables. You know, given the guy, a talent comes out of the game, high five and huddles the live bitch, all the loose balls. Well, when you talk about that, that, to me, is standards and culture. So it when we put the thing together, when we started with the boomers, it was okay. We're going to work on conditioning. We got to be a really well conditioned team. We've got to get we've to compete. We've got a good be good defensively, and we've got to develop a strong culture. [PB3]
And you're, you know, Russia had just gone in, in Lithuania, and all that went on there. And you go to Athens, and you see Argentina, Lithuania, all these teams, the cultures they got to build that and be elite in that area is really and you find to be the best in the world, that any aspect is incredibly difficult. And one of the ones that I picked with this, in order for us down the road to be any good in this and compete with the top countries, it's got to be strong there. So where do you go? How do you do this? It's not my expertise. So I've always felt like Australian rules, or coming from America, America is if you take the NBA, if we get along great, if we don't get your 15 rebounds and 15 points, and do your job. This all you know, like, do your where Australian sport? When you look at Australian rules football, it's like, if you don't have great teamship, and I look at at that time, or the Bloods with the Sydney Swans, and what started there, if you don't have that, and everyone's looking at it because it's so competitive and you have to have an edge, you can't win. So I went to Australian rules football, where this piece was being worked on on a daily basis, if you're going to win a championship, and I pulled a guy out of that called Ray McClean. You. Ray McClean ran a company called leading teams, and when we went into camp and prepared for whatever we did, I always brought ray in,
and at the end of every session at night, we would sit down, and we started building this culture, and the culture, I mean, we could talk and have a program on this, but at that time, a lot of the sport was the coach. It was my way or the highway. And what this became was the values, the standards were set by the players, and you had a captains that that ran it, and your job as the coach was to evaluate it. And so the word empowerment became a very, very, very powerful point in it. And what you learn, or what I learned from is it's much more powerful, if it's player driven, than coach driven. So the players set the standards the players, yeah, and my job was to evaluate. And also the goal of this thing was to form a leadership team underneath it, where these guys start developing the skills, and everybody like learning how to pass, shoot, dribble, everybody becomes able to lead, and everybody becomes part of the of the culture. So it was unique.[PB4]
And if you take the story to Andrew Bogut was the first one, which led to Joe Ingles, Patty, bills in Beijing. Four years later, we got walked in Athens, which everybody knew, but we New Zealand was one of the top teams in the world, and we beat New Zealand and qualified, which was huge. They finished fifth in the world cup. And what everybody was talking about New Zealand, and we played a really, really strong New Zealand team to qualify, and also beat them at those Athens Olympics, along with Angola, and was competitive with Puerto Rico, competitive with Lithuania and and, but not under the bar. Then, when we went to Beijing, took a huge step forward and introduced Patty mills and Joe Ingles to this. And you had Bogut, and we lost a Team USA in the quarterfinals, and I moved away from it, went into COVID, came back, long story short, 12 years later, and I walk into the rose gold, which ended up getting the medal two months before three months for those Games, and had a camp that was volunteer in Huntington Beach, and I wasn't allowed or or part of it. I was just an observer of it, and it was run by the players. And I came in there and sat down there, and was absolutely gobsmacked by where that leadership, where that culture had gone from what I was a part of, and the first thing I saw that touched me was Tybalt, Josh Green, Josh giddy. Do up all those guys coming in and bangs, Joe Patty, grabbing them, touching them, communicating with them, lunches, things at night. But the first thing I remember just sitting on the side and Patty with Matisse explaining what a boomer was. This is what a boomer is, and when, this is what we're doing now, and when we leave, which is going to be a short period of time, you've got to take this to another level. And I'm just thinking to myself, You know what I went through leading into Athens, what has transpired now is saved six years of work. Patty Mills, Joe Ingles, bangs are touchy. Matisse Tybalt, Josh, green, Joey. Josh, giddy, touching these guys before they're on their way out. So this thing continues, and where they and we develop, they develop a theme of that kind of sometimes gets misconstrued.
I think that you know your gold, gold vibes, and the gold vibe. I loved because it's not we're going to get a gold medal. It's everything we do is going to be gold standard, and if we do everything at a gold standard, we're going to get a gold medal. And that meant what color, what what shoes you wore, how you wore your socks, the locker room, the food we ate, the bus, the music, everything was pristine. Everything was perfect. And constant, constant evaluations on that and I, I kind of sat like that first week was beautiful for me, because I it's right there for me to see, and my voice isn't there. So when I walked away from that leading into that Olympics, I just short period of time, clarity, simple, how I use my voice and make sure I have big energy, and I didn't use my voice and virtually, I didn't raise it until we lost to Team USA and leading into the bronze medal game,[PB5]
Paul Barnett 31:15
Brian, it's a great story. I appreciate you sharing with me. I'd love to ask you a little bit so much more follow up, but I want to, I want to circle back to something because you, in that description, you sound like you've evolved as a coach. You're almost, you know, empowering people, making sure that the team is preparing itself for the future. It's going to thrive. When we started this interview, you talked about Lindsay gays and and how much he cared. But somewhere in there, there's this line. There's this line between caring for someone and demanding of them. Before you can even get to this point where you see your input, the empowerment take hold, I wanted to ask you what you found about that line between caring and demanding, and What? What? Perhaps, advice you've got for others on finding the balance and getting it right when it comes to that? Well,
Brian Goorjian 32:09
I, you know, the other aspect that we haven't discussed, discussed, it's always a big part of this, the winnings in the picky so you know, when you're with the boomers, or when I, have, I select the team. So my job, I feel like, is, when you talk about and it's the same thing now in the city King, I'm not for everybody. I bring I select these guys, I bring them in, and we're on. My mindset is, now, is my job or where I put my energy is helping them become better at their craft, and if they become better at their craft, um, there, there's going to be that love there, that they and there's going to all these things are going to, going to fall in place. This guy really cares. This guy is, is, and I, and again, maybe it's from Mike Dunlap, who, who, and going way back to the American thing, the thing that you were always taught on my way through my high school, coaching, whatever. I've never coached the Pro. I've been doing this for 30 years. 35 years, nobody's made the NBA, but when you go into the classroom and you're part of my program, you're going to kick everyone's ass in there, and anything they go and try to do in life, if you apply the principles that you are getting from this program, you're going to, there's nobody that can you put your mind. It doesn't have to be basketball. It can be to be a doctor. It can be to be a teacher. It can be a policeman. You apply this to anything. It's about greatness. And that is how I I think now, when I'm with my team, I'm not, you know, I'm putting all my energy into making them better at their craft, and in turn, I feel like it's making them a better person. It's, it's, it's, and I, and I get because I get now at this age, where I got people that come back to me, that I've coached, that are in their 60s, that are in their 50s, and what I'm just talking about now really resonates. It's like, it's not that they remember being a part of the team, being what you did for me. You hug and a kiss on the net, you made me fall in love with the game my kids play the game. I took what you did with me and I had. Guy just recently for stage four cancer, and you've got four months to live. He's on year six, and he called me up on the day of the rose gold. He's in bed having a huge surgery, and we're playing for rose gold that day, and he's in the hospital bed having the major, the major. And basically the message is, I got through your practice sessions. I was in your program. He goes, I'm going to kick this thing's ass, and you're going to win today. You know, so, and I get this a lot now where that there's guys that are in your program and now they're lawyers, they're doctors, their kids play basketball, and you had an influence on them. They're not pros. They're not making money out of basketball anymore. They didn't set themselves up through basketball, but what you did for them, and in that being a part of a team has made them good and become good at what they do, a good husband, a good father, all of those things and that that started with me. Me very early. So I guess, you know, and I'm, I'm on you people say that a lot of things that you're good at, that you're not good at, one of the strengths that always comes back about me, you're really good at putting things in compartments, you know, like, like, in a box. I never worry about the office. I never, you know, a lot of coaches get this thing bothers them, or this thing and they get sidetracked. I can, you know, I feel like when, every time I step out of the gym, I'm going to get my head cut off. So I try to this thing with with players. Now, here's, you know, give them everything you got. Make sure that work ethic strong, make sure you've gotten better and you're competent in what you do, and don't waste their time. And if you and I told you the big aspect of this, and this is going to China, and I spent 12 years in China, and I couldn't communicate, and these values that we're talking about, and I'm still guys that I coach there, I'm still getting asked, you know, to come back when a job opens up here, Coach, can I come and play for you? No, you you can't play as a foreigner here. I And you couldn't communicate so and also so many, so many things. When you say you're different now than you were then, a lot of it's to do with being in China. So example being I talk a lot. I'm American. When I'm on the court, I communicate a lot when I came back here, coach, you're so much better on the floor. What do you mean? And they go, you don't talk so much. Now I'm thinking about it. When I was in China, I had to deal and work through an interpreter to work through so my practices had much better flow. And I I used were a word, you know, passing lane riding Lane instead of a long and I thought about it and go, God, I'm carrying that over to this. And the guys really like it. And that's that's a little example. But again, through that process evolution in the area that we're talking about, I want
Paul Barnett 38:37
to talk to you about that because you talked about empowerment before. But when I go to the basketball, I see the coach on the sideline calling plays. I see them motioning for the player to come over as a I'm interested in basketball, but I would not call myself, you know, a deep fan. Sometimes I find that distracting, and I wonder where this balance is, you know, between empowering, but leaving the decision making to the people out on the floor. Is that something that's changed since you got home from China? Yeah,
Brian Goorjian 39:07
yeah. And, you know, there's this, this that you're talking about, um, and it's interesting right now with my team, and I, when I came back, I went to, so I won't, I don't have to talk about my team, but I went and I went to woolen Gong straight back, they finished last place, and I go to woolen Kong, and I get with it. For a while ago, this thing doesn't have leadership. I'm going to have to be the leader. I'm going to lead this. It's going to be my voice. They're not ready for this, and I don't have any time, because the process we're talking about, I take you to you put the values up on the board.
An example of something you would do early in the piece when you're building this culture, is you. Is our values. Stand you up in front and each table talks about you according to the values. You drink too much, you're still overweight, you know, you're not locked in in the morning sessions, you're in the afternoon. When you come in, you're not blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, if you haven't done a ton of work leading into that, that player will never talk to that player again, so you can't just dive in you. It started to be a process in building this culture. So by the time I got to the end of year two, I had, I didn't have captains. The first year, I had two captains. The second year, and I started doing things like, before the game, you're not going to hear my I just go into my room and they would prepare the team to play. You know, when they came out that they're bringing the energy they're bringing you know, the thing that's required as your home base to be competitive, they were in charge of that. [PB6]
Now, moving towards what you're talking about now, is plays, schemes, offensively and defensively. It's different than football. The coach is heavily involved in that, and you get feedback with about how you're going to do things from the group, you know. And I always say to them on this scheme, if there's something in this that I'm doing that you're uncomfortable with, and there was a little tweak here or there, and it it would help you please communicate. But when we use the scheme, which scheme we use at what time, that's all stuff that it comes from the coach. So when you're watching a game, and it's astronomy rules football. They're up in a window box up there. We're right on the floor. There's five guys in your T shirts, and you're evaluating every possession up and back. Now you got it. There's got to be some flow to it, but you can change things as the events going on, and that's my expertise. So, you know, we set the table of the boundaries that we're going to play in, in the schemes that we have, and everyone I involve the captains in that, and discuss things, and we practice. But when we come down to style of play, and we've got it down, when we switch when we rotate when those are my calls and my feel on. We need a time out. They're tired. They're the other teams getting tired. But and I've got a deeper bench, I'm not going to call a timeout. I'm going to move these guys in. When I move these guys in, I got to change the scheme. Now, that's all stuff that comes from me, and that's my competence and my expertise, and that's part of a coach's job. In the game that I play, that I coach,
Paul Barnett 43:12
many of the people I've interviewed at border on obsession. I think great coaches. There's an obsession about winning, team, performance, culture, chemistry, that can really drive them. I think it's the same in the corporate world. I think people can get addicted to their jobs. It gives you a feeling of you get endorphins from the success, from the interactions with people. But it sounds like you found a way to bring intensity and then, as you say, compartmentalize it and renew your energy. Are there any routines you found that a better than others when it comes to that,
Brian Goorjian 43:45
you know, going back to, you know, compart putting things in compartments, you know, I feel like myself, if I'm not obsessed, I can't win. I if I'm going to be in this thing. I've got to be obsessed, but I can't bring them into it, and even my staff sometimes, like today, I got a day off before I saw you. I've made two really important phone calls on on setting up practice from tomorrow overseas, because I got a week to bear. And then I've been on the video of the game for three hours. Just cut so I'm I'm and I'm not asking anything of my assistance. My my players are off. Have a nice cup of coffee. Dive in the ocean. Get away from it. Refresh. But I'm in this box right now this in driving myself until the season finishes. But when I say putting things in compartments, that's for me, for my team, there's gotta be balance, and I gotta make sure that in in a big part of this is is one of. Things that were said in this cut your practice from 75 minutes to 40 minutes. These guys now it's this stage of season and time and wasting time and do things in mind where there's no contact and it's really slow motion and you're touching and surprise them. Keep them up. So my point being is constantly with me is I'm in this compartment, but when I'm looking at the whole group, and I don't know if I'm asked answering your question, but I've got to make sure I've got a team that comes that they're getting all these things that we talked about, but they're coming in and they're not dreading it. It's, it's when I played for Lindsey gays. I keep using, I use the word love of the game, and I start, you start to sense, hey, they're tired, they're worn, they're fried. And usually, as a coach, when they're like that, you want more. If we get a little bit of this, if we added this, if we did this, it'd make a difference. Oh, you know what I'm saying to the assistants, we need to cut it down. Pour a glass of water on it. They're fried, and that kind of feel goes back to what I'm talking to you early about I know when I talk, it kind of bounces around, but certain these things that we bring up fall into compartments. Discuss prior, and that's that piece that isn't on the computer. You know, it's like these he I think, you know, you look at guys sometimes the week finishes, and it's this time when it gets nasty right now, and you're coming down the back end, they look at you the and they go, he gets it. He gets it. You know, that's That's again. And I can't even remember the question, but
Paul Barnett 46:55
now we were talking about obsession. I I know that you have so much energy. I've seen footage. I remember seeing footage of you must have been 20 years ago, and they measured your heart rate during a game, and they showed how it peaked and troughed. And I know you, you bring that energy. I guess I always find you know, if you work for a manager or you work for a CEO, or you become that person that's working seven days a week, sending emails at all hours and stuff, there's a danger that people can copy that behavior and finding a spam breaker, so that doesn't happen. I think is also a leadership response.
Brian Goorjian 47:29
So you know that, I guess the when you say, the energy and all that, I guess when I'm talking, I've put it used to be all, you know, me on the floor in total command. You know, like, like, it's, it's my army, and I'm, I'm on, and it's all me. And if you came to my practice a lot of times, you know, the ball's over here, and I'm standing in the corner just looking at the weak side, seeing things, and let my assistant run this end and the other one run this end. And then when they meet in the huddle, the captain's taking each team. You've got, you know, cooks, you've got blue you I would never do that before. I would the energy would be, is so. And my voice, like I said, it's down, but I'm so now I'm putting my energy on, you know, when the practice finishes, getting the video, take making point, and then making those calls, yeah, that we talked about. So today I'm being truthful. I called Mike Dunlap first, you know, first thing we still, you know, here's what went on in the game. Here's what I'm seeing on the tape. I got a week to prepare. What do you think? You know, and the game plan, as opposed to how it was, like I said 10 years ago, before China would be me, where a lot of this, you know, when we get to it, I'll have the coaches. You've got six guys down here. You've got six guys over here. So again, my energy is was put in the conversation with Mike, was put in the video session and maybe a cup of coffee with the captain, as opposed to my energy being what you you know, me on the basketball court with the guys. There's, you know, and that's that putting things in compartments, and there's a lot more compartments now, and there's a lot more empowerment that's being involved in the whole process. Well,
Paul Barnett 49:29
it's almost my hour's almost up. It's your day off, and I'm not going to go over time, because I'm sure you need a little bit of a rest or to dive in the ocean. As you said, I
Brian Goorjian 49:38
love your questions.
Paul Barnett 49:41
You said earlier, Ryan, you said, you know my job is to help the players fall in love with the game. And you told me some stories about how they have come to you and said, Well, my kids play now, and they've fallen in love with the game. And I'd like to go a little bit below that if I could. And just to finish, I'd like to ask you what beyond that. I. But beyond that love of the game is the legacy that you you've hoped you've left for the people that you've coached, ooh,
Brian Goorjian 50:16
um, a positive influence on their lives. I mean, it's, it's so much more than the basketball and so much more than the basketball that went I use this quite a bit with the team, but I, you know, in my hallway, I've got a picture of every team I've ever coached. And you walk down that hallway, and you turn and you look at a photo, and you see that guy's face, or you got your grandson, and you're walking down in any points, and you go, well, that, you know, that's Neil. And Neil was and then, and then, then you start, he's a doctor. Now, he was a great, yeah, blah, blah, blah, you know, just, just, and, and for me, it's the same thing. I always think they're going to have the team picture on the wall. They'll have their sons, and they'll point to the coach, and that's the essence of the man. That's the essence of, you know, what a coach is, is, what is, what is going to come out in that conversation? And the answer to your question is, you know, man, he made me better. He was a good man. He was, you know, it's not, we won all our games. You know, he knew the x's, and I was it's our our whole thing is about relationships. And you want to be respected, and you get respect by making a person a better man. And I would say, with the with coaches, or whatever you're when you're recruiting, meet the mom and dad. Meet the dad, have a beer with the dad. What's so important about that the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, and it's, it's not, but such a high percentage of that is and then, you know, when I recruit a lot of times, when I recruit these Americans, it's the pro, you know, Duke Mike Jesse, you know, you get a guy out of there, you know, that's come out of there. It's the things that we talked about, the essence of the man. So I and I get what we're talking about now, like I said to you so many times now, last one maybe for you, I'm, I'm in the Gold Coast. I come back from Manila. And now I come back from the Olympics, and I'm at the Gold Coast. I get off the plane, boom, I'm in the Gold Coast, and it's the pre season Blitz. We finish the Blitz, and then I'm going to go to Perth. I'm back in Australia, and I'm sitting down having a beer. The thing's finished, with a couple of buddies, and I'm off to Perth the next morning, and a guy walks up and taps me, and I look up at him, and he goes, You know me, and I'm you know. I go, No, no, you may, right. He goes, you coach me at St James and I and I looked at him, and I go, that's 19. That's 1977. 7879 I nine, right? So he goes, I fell in love with basketball because of you. And he goes, I'm 62 years old, and I still play. And he opens up his phone, and there's a picture of me. I'm I'm 24 at the time. I'm 72 now I'm 24 I'm standing up, and they're holding the band, and he's holding the banner. He was my captain. He was 12 years old, 13 years old. And then he goes, my son's play. I still play. And he goes, you change my life. And then as I'm standing up, shaking his hand, he kisses me on the neck. Instead. I love you, coach, and that I'm seeing so many on your on the questions that you're talking about, it becomes, you know, and I talk about that like being a part of pee, being a coach, that is what it's about. And when I'm with my you know, and I guess the advantage of being older is the understanding of this so much more, because now it's coming back to me in spades. I've got guys in their 60s, guys in their 50s, that have played for you, and you look back and go, that's what it's about. And I have that I'm I have that rapport with Lindsay. The first guy I called after we won that medal was Lindsey gays, and there was tears. And I played with Andrew my last year, and his broadcast was every it was really. Renowned from the heart, and that's what the answer your question is probably the most important question to the whole thing, because it's now I get to experience it all the time, and it continues to drive me about how fortunate I am to be involved in these young guys lives, and my experience can help them become better players and better men,
Paul Barnett 55:26
and that is why I think great coaches are the best leaders I've ever met. Brian master class of an interview a real treat for me to connect with you. I've been watching you, I think, since I was knee high to a grasshopper growing up in Melbourne, and I look forward to coming out and seeing more of those kings games and watching the team continue to evolve. And incidentally, Illawarra having a great year after you set them up last year. So thank you for your time today, and I wish you all the best for the years ahead.
Brian Goorjian 55:53
And those questions, no offender. Those questions were great, man. I really, I No, seriously, I get I do this a bit. You were RIC i hope i was okay. But really enjoyed the questions. Really got the mind, you know, you come, sometimes you come off these and it, you know, it comes out of your mouth again, and it gives you, it gives you energy. But I've, yeah, right on point. Really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed it. Thanks. Brian bye.