Doug MacLean edit
Fri, Jul 14, 2023 10:16AM • 45:39
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
nhl, coach, year, great, brian, hockey, players, job, team, head coach, thought, people, fired, terry, assistant coach, doug, game, general manager, career, coaching
SPEAKERS
Doug McLean, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Doug McLean. Good morning, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Doug McLean 00:06
Yeah, thanks. It's it's an honor. I actually saw the the podcast listed somewhere. I thought that's a really interesting looking podcast. And lo and behold, I get invited to go on it, which is pretty bizarre, because I think if I'm not mistaken, it said, great coaches. Not sure I fit that category.
Paul Barnett 00:30
Well, do you know every person I interviewed says the same thing. So we might go through your story. And then we can let the audience decide whether you fit into that great age bracket. But I think you are a great coach, but for I think, reasons that are a little different from others, and they'll become clearer as we move along. But don't could I start with something really simple. Where are you in the world? And what have you been doing so far today?
Doug McLean 00:54
Well, I'm in Prince Edward Island, Canada, which is an island off the east coast of Nova Scotia. And it's a place where I was actually born and played my minor hockey and Prince Edward Island. My family was all here are obviously all here and went to college at the University of Prince Edward Island. And the school teacher, high school teacher for seven years before I get into professional coaching, coached the local high school junior team prior to becoming an NHL coach. So Prince Edward Island has been an amazing part of my life. Doug, you've had
Paul Barnett 01:37
some great experience up close with some some fantastic ice hockey coaches. I can when I was researching you, I saw names like Brian Murray, his brother Terry, Don Boyd, Jax, Martin, and of course, Scott Bowman. And I'm, I'm wondering from seeing all these people up close, and watching them work. What is it you think the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?
Doug McLean 02:03
Wow, that's a really great question. And I think about Brian, who was my mentor, I worked with him as an assistant coach. I was his head coach, when he became a general manager, guy that I just happened to slay and a great leader. Guy that cared about his players. He, you know, he was a fair, straight shooter. And I think the one trait that I, you know, besides being a good person and all those things, he managed the room better than any coach, I know, like, one of the biggest challenges of a head coach in the National Hockey League. Because you know, you've got a group that don't like in a group that really hate you and a group that really liked you and Brian was able to manage the room with the best of them and keep a cohesive dressing room. I think I admired that. Besides the fact he knew the game and he could teach the game, former high school teacher himself. I have Annville and Brian just passed away a few short years ago and I I worked with him for 1012 years. And I miss him and I admire him so much. And if it wasn't for him or I wouldn't have been an NHL Head Coach, general manager President any of those jobs. Brian was really the guy so I just think good person. Fair, straight shooter, manage the room and knew the game. Scotty Bowman. Different. Scotty Bowman, the greatest coach in the history of the National Hockey League nine Stanley Cup round, the most strings, any most championships of any NHL coach. He was hard as nails. Tough, miserable. Players shook their heads they could never figure them out. They just drove them crazy. All he ever did was when I said to a guy must have been amazing. You won three standard body must have been an amazing or you won five Stanley Cups with Scottie. With the Montreal Canadiens. He must have been an amazing coach. He said if it wasn't for Scotty we would have won seven. I talked to him every once in a while. I was doing a radio show in Toronto for a long time. And I used to get texts from him all the time saying hey, I love your take. I really respect what you're saying and either all my god how great accomplishment is that? That Scotty Bowman would say that about what I'm saying about hockey. So he's a legend. So I got a chance to be around. Ryan Murray who I can see You're a legend. And Scotty Bowman, who definitely is a legend of the game of hockey.
Paul Barnett 05:10
Your first job back in 1977 was coaching junior hockey. Then in 81, you became the first head coach of the Summerside Western capitals. They were an expansion franchise. And I'm just wondering, as you cast your mind back to that time, what did you actually learn about setting up a team culture from that role?
Doug McLean 05:33
Well, you know, I was actually a kid. I mean, I was 23. College, played college hockey had tried, went to St. Louis Blues, the NHL, their training camp and thought I was going to be a pro player. And I ended up back in my hometown teaching high school. And then you know, what I really felt like I was really ready to coach that I had had, you know, good experience as a player and playing for the Montreal Junior Canadiens, and playing college hockey and good competitive hockey all the way up through that. I wanted to be a high school teacher bad. And I also wanted to be a coach and setting up a culture was always. And I go back to what I said about Brian Murray, Brian was a straight shooter.
I was a straight shooter. And I think if you're honest with your players, setting up that culture is, is easier. And you teach the life skills of the game, the winning seems to happen. And you know, we had good success. When I was a high school coach, I had success when I was a junior coach, I had success. I wish I would have had more success. Later on. And I did early on, but that happens, but setting up the culture was, I always thought you set up a healthy culture, a healthy environment, and the players want to get to practice and they want to practice and they really want to win for the team and, and you care about the group. I think culture looks after itself.[SB1]
Paul Barnett 07:15
So Doug, you go from that experience to 1989 when you get your first chance of being a head coach at the pro level with the Baltimore Skipjacks. However, on this occasion, it's kind of different, because you take over from the great coach we talked about in the intro, Terry Murray. And I'm wondering how did you have to adjust your style when taking over from a leader like Terry? Well,
Doug McLean 07:40
it's a really bizarre experience. And I don't know if you know what happened, but I was the assistant coach with the Washington Capitals with Brian Murray as the head coach, and I was his assistant. Terry was coach in Baltimore. At the time. I'm our firm team. And Brian gets fired in Washington and Terry takes over for so this is brothers, one brother gets fired for the other brother, and I'm in the middle of it thinking Are you kidding me? So I go to Baltimore to take over for Terry Terry goes to Washington to take over for his brother as a head coach, Terry Murray, an interesting guy. He and I have had our battles over the years. I gotta tell you, you know, we were sort of rivals because I was tear Brian's assistant for a long time in the NHL. And Terry was, you know, had been Brian's assistant. There was a little bit of a internal battle there. But I always really respect everybody's not a game and the way he taught the game, he was a great teacher of the game. So when I go to Baltimore to take over from that I had a good team. Terry was a taskmaster he was he was tough on his players. So I went in there and I was a different personnel. And Terry, and I think it was a nice, skilled, real skilled technician. And I would and I was a little more laid back. And I think it was a really good fit. For me to take over for him because they hit the basic fundamentals of the game down their systematic system, the systems were really in place, and it was an easy takeover. To take over from Terry and we've talked a lot over the years, actually. And last time I saw him was at Brian's funeral. We had a great chat. Terry went on to coach a lot in the NHL, I coached against him with the Philadelphia Flyers. I coached against somebody's head coach of the LA Kings. So we sort of had a intertwine career for a long time. And Terry was a great, great coach, good person. And it's just that we were sort of rivals all the way through, you know what I mean? I'd love to know what Terry would say, Well, me, maybe he wouldn't be as you know. Oh, Well, it'd be fine. Well, I'll
Paul Barnett 10:01
chase him down and interview him. Next I'll ask him that very question. Exactly. This is where your story starts to get even more interesting because your apprenticeship finishes in 95. And you go off and you're appointed as the head coach of the Florida Panthers in the NHL, and you make it all the way to the Stanley Cup in that first year. Now, I'm intrigued. First year, Stanley Cup, what did you do when you first got there that helped drive that result.
Doug McLean 10:32
And I'll never forget the day I got the job. And it was sort of out of the blue that Brian Murray was the general manager. And I'll never forget interviewing with Brian and it was at a restaurant in Detroit because we had been in Detroit together before I got the Florida job. Brian and I are interviewing. I'll never forget a fast food place called Bob's Big Boy. And we're sitting in a booth and I said, Brian, I really want this head coaching job. And he said, Doug, he said to our owner, Wayne Huizenga, who was you know, Blockbuster Video, one of the most famous American entrepreneurs at the time, billionaire guy that owned the team was really looking for a more famous coach. And I, Brian, sort of saying, Hey, Doug, I'd loved it. You know, I just don't know where Wayne would be on this hire. You know, you're been assistant coach and a little bit of head coaching experience, I don't know. And I said, I looked at Brian squarely in the eyes. And I said, Brian, I'm going to tell you this right now. We've been together for seven or eight years, you'd be an idiot not to hire me for this job. And he looked at me and he said, so he said, Okay, we ended that meeting. And I didn't know I was getting the job. But he said, let me talk to Wayne and let me talk to Bill Tory who was our president, famous hockey guy, Bill Tory, from New York Islander fame. And probably two months later, at the draft in Edmonton in July, Brian called me into a meeting and he and Bill Tory, and they said, We're going to offer you the job and honest to God, it was the highlight of my life. It was the highlight of my life. And he and I was making, I think I was making about 100 grand a year and he said, we're gonna give you a three year contract 252 75 300. And I'm thinking, I just made a billion dollars in three years. And you know what? It? It just took off. But I'll tell you what was the most bizarre thing. I got the job. And I phoned Brian Scruton, who was our captain, who I'd never met. And he lived in Calgary, I phoned Brian. So Brian, I want to introduce myself, Doug McLean, new head coach. He's an old gray, gray gray. He said. I said, really? I'm really excited to Doug, let me just let me just tell you this. We have a really good team. This was the third year of this franchise, the start of the third year, the franchise. He said, Doug, we got a unique group. And we've got a really good team. I just want you to know that as you come in, and I, you know, I knew they had been competitive. But I went in there because of Brian scriptlets motivational speech that he gave the new head coach the captain, I went in there, pretty pumped. And you know what, we lost the first game in New Jersey, and I'm flying home on our team plane, and I'm a little uptight, Brian comes and sits with me. And he's a little uptight, we didn't play great. Then we won five in a row. At Christmas, were in first place in the entire NHL, at the All Star break were in first place in the entire NHL, and I was awarded to be the NHL All Star coach that year. And I'm thinking Oh, my God, what is going on? This is a third year team, but they just had so much character that was sort of looking to break out as a group and be a little more free flowing. Roger Nelson, the great Roger Neilson had coached him for two years, and I took his place. Very solid, great defensive coach, the team learned a great defensive system. So I opened the game up a little bit. And they flourished. I mean, we were one had to believe we were one of the best teams in the league all year, and I've never seen a group of players was such character. I look at them now today, all the years since 96. And almost every guy in that team has had a wonderful career, whether it was in real estate, whether it was in coaching, whether it was in management, whatever they got in. They were all successful people and I still keep in touch with a lot of them run into a lot of they were a unique group and for us to go as a third year expansion team to the Stanley Cup final was one of the most bizarre things in the History of the NHL, it really was. Because it didn't happen like, today, it happens a little bit more. But in those days, it was unheard of. And it was a mess. It was an amazing group of individuals. And they just, they just competed. You know, we had good structure. We had good systems. We had great goaltending with John Vanbiesbrouck. But they were they were a special group, they really weren't a lot of them are coaches and general managers in the NHL today, which is really pretty rewarding to see.
Paul Barnett 15:34
Well, what's fascinating is, unfortunately, that Stanley Cup didn't fall your way. But you Korea takes a fascinating turn from here because you leave head coaching and you become a general manager, and not just any general manager, you head off to Columbus. And they become one of the most successful organizations in the NHL. And I'm, I'm really curious though, you've had these two different roles. And we haven't even gotten into the third one yet as an author and a sportscaster. But what of these different roles taught you about the art of leadership?
Doug McLean 16:08
You know, the, the, to become the, you know, when I finished coaching, it was a really big decision to leave coaching and go into management. And you do it because you get an offer, you know, and I remember getting a call from Columbus owner asking, I'd be interested in talking to him about the job. And I meet with them, and they're going, okay, just a minute, you're getting an opportunity to start a franchise from scratch. And I remember walking into my office when I got the job in Columbus. We're still a year and a half before we played a game, and it was like an empty pad of paper on the desk. And I had to hire 250 people to run our franchise, we had to build a building. We had to sell hockey in Columbus, Ohio, which was not a hockey town, it was Ohio State football, famous football country. I'm thinking like what have I got myself into here. But it was one of the you know, I did 11 years in Columbus.
And it was one of the most rewarding experiences you could ever have in your life starting a franchise from scratch, and having to hire every person in their mind, you know, hire the key people and they hire their people. And, you know, to build up to opening night with a brand new building, a brand new staff, a brand new hockey staff, a brand new team, the infrastructure of the building 1000 People working in the building on opening night, and thinking, wow, this is this is pretty cool. I remember my parents flew up from Pei for opening night my owner sent his private jet to pick them up to bring them to Columbus and pretty my family there. It was just it was an amazing, amazing experience. So I you know, it was tough. I was always torn between coaching and management, but coaching management, really different management, you have to look at the big picture, you have to look long range. It was a whole different kettle of fish for me. And it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. And I sit here today, thinking, I wish I had to do it over again, I would have done, I would have done you know when you can sit back and look at this big picture to say, Wow, I get in there and thought I was unknown at all. And wow, I learned a lot. And there was a lot I didn't know. But you know, it was it was just an amazing, it was an experience, you know, coached an expansion team to the Stanley Cup, starting an NHL team from scratch. Not many people get to do that. And I'm really lucky and I ended up with you know, a 24 year career in the NHL and but I do say this, I wish I would have had a few things over. I wish I would you know a couple of things to read, too, like a lot of things. But that's like, you know,
Paul Barnett 19:19
it was tell us about one or two of them.
Doug McLean 19:23
Well, you know what, I'll tell you the biggest challenge in professional hockey, professional sports, is dealing with the media is it's a really tough, tough job. You you finish a game where it's it's a it's a war out there. It's a battle. It's, it's, you know, every shift is important and then you finish the game. And 10 minutes later you're in front of a media thong of media people and you're just I know after I spent years in the media that damn it, I wish I would have been immediately I first before I was a coach, because I got shot, you get short with them, you get confrontational you, you say things you shouldn't have said and I, I sit back today and I regret that I wasn't better at that. And it's funny how many people I've talked to about that, how many coaches, I'll see a young coach in the NHL sort of go off in the media after a game and I'll send them a text, you know, because he I know this kid really well. He's a great NHL coach. And I sent him a note I said, Just be calm, be calm, don't you know, just, you know, try to let things you know, let it happen. Don't Don't be confrontational. And, you know, so I, I that's, that's the number one thing really, [SB2]
I don't have any regrets how I treated people. I think back of all players I had, and coaches and scouts and people that work for me. There's not a person that I would feel uncomfortable with meeting and sitting down and having a beer or a coffee, or a sandwich with I liked. I liked them all the people. I didn't like how some of them played. But I always liked them as people. And I think that's the that's a good regret about me, the media side of it. But the greatest thing is you meet unbelievable people from my first year in the NHL to the 24 years to the end. I mean, I still run into people and love, love spending time with guys that I coached. 25 years ago, my son deals with a guy in Chicago, who was a player on the first NHL team I coached in St. Louis in 1987. So you know, the year my son was born, that guy he deals with from a hockey basis was on my team and 87 and St. Louis Geno Cavalier, he was his name. And I so I think of all the great memories and all the people I've met. And I think that's more important than how good a coach you were, you know that I think the friendships the the people you meet the the challenges you face, but still, what I mean seriously, I think, how did I make a living? How did I make a living doing this? How lucky was I? You know,
Paul Barnett 22:29
you definitely were lucky you've, you've had a we're only halfway through the story, I guess. And what's interesting about your career is researching you and learning about you for today. People keep describing you as being honest and truthful, it comes up time and time and time again. So you've clearly built some equity in that area. But it got me thinking, you know, a long career in in the cutthroat world as you describe it. It's like a war out there. When you're in this kind of environment, and it comes to leading people either on the ice or up in the office. Can you ever be too honest?
Doug McLean 23:10
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know if you can ever be too honest. I really. I really don't think you can be I mean, I know there's a ton of coaches that are more aloof not dishonest. I don't mean that but more aloof. I just my personality is I want to do I want it to relate to the guys I want it to have a bit of a relate. I don't mean a cozy cuddly. I look I had I had guys in my room. I give them a blast so bad that I often said I said the weirdest thing that ever happened in my life is I'm yelling at a player in the dressing room. And I didn't play in the NHL, and he starts to cry. And I'm thinking, oh my god, I just made an NHL player cry. Like what the hell am I doing here? Oh, you know, I mean, because these players, they put their career on the line every day. It's one thing to make the NHL which a miniscule number of people make the top up the top. And then to stay there is even more pressure because somebody's trying to take your job every day. I just I just thought it was better to be honest. And maybe it was too honest. I don't think so. I think I was just a straight shooter and I I know how I would like to be treated and how I wish out you know, I mean, how you hope to be treated in your career by your bosses. And I just never thought there was any other way. And I think you know, I don't have regrets about that. I have regrets about a few things but not about being honest with players and being a straight shooter. [SB3]
Too many people in our business, play games and I know when I was in the media, I started to call out those games and sometimes it wasn't very popular. But you know, I mean, I would rather I would rather go with the honest approach. You know, like I often I say to minor hockey coaches all the time. One of the greatest tests of a minor hockey coach is if the kid that's playing for you, finishes the season and he says to his dad, man, I learned a lot from that coach this year and I really, really would like to play for him again. I said Have your kid on your team really wants to play for you again next year? You're a successful coach. That means something you know so I, you know, I think guys enjoyed playing from our low I mean, look, lots of times I'll never forget the Lindy Rafa coach for the New Jersey Devils just lost out in the playoffs was my assistant coach. I'm on the bench race Shepherd 50 goal scorer for me in Florida 50 goal scorer when I coached him Detroit, and I'm yelling at him on the bench and I'm in his ear on the bench. And I never thought anything of it. Lindy calls me in the next one, we're doing our video of setup for our team meetings and look at this. So I'm yelling and Ray shepherds here on the bench, about a play. And the camera zooms in on me, Elena Ray, and Ray's rolling his eyes face in his head as I'm giving them out. So we put it on the event a video means that a shot by really see liked by points a made the last night we show the close up of him rolling his eyes. Well, when I run into chef, today, he plays with the golf course 20 minutes from my house in Florida. We laugh about it in all, but it's so Lindy, who's been on to be a great coach in Buffalo. And with New Jersey, devils and Dallas and one of my great friends, we had lots of laughs over that.
So, you know, I just think that, you know, the relationship with players is really, really important from a teaching perspective, and a management perspective to, to get the most out of them, you, you have to teach them you have to, you have to show a player, and especially as an assistant coach, the number one thing you have to do is I can make you a better player. And if they believe that they will listen to everything you say, if they don't believe it, you're done. So help make them a better player. Help them last longer in the league. Give them chances. That's what it's all about. You You can't come in as an NHL assistant coach or coach, and just roll on, players have got to believe you can help them help them win and help them be better. That's what it's all about.[SB4]
Paul Barnett 27:57
Now, again, that answer that you talked about people wanting to take your job. Of course, you've talked about it already a few times in this interview, being sacked, being fired, being moved on. It's part of life in professional sports, but I'm just wondering, when younger people, coaches or players come to you these days and ask for advice about being fired, about dealing with it about bouncing back from it. What do you tell them? You know,
Doug McLean 28:25
it's interesting with with the general population with respect to coaches being fired, they say, well, that's part of the job. That's part of it. And I recall, when I got fired, it was devastating. It was It was devastating. B probably partially because I had been a former NHL player. And I thought, Okay, this is what happens here. How do I survive? How do I get another job? And you know what? It was awful. I my first time I got fired, I was assistant coach of the Washington Capitals. Joe was pregnant wife, Jill was pregnant. To my daughter, Mackenzie. I had $500 in my bank account. And we had to leave the states because our health insurance was right now and I'm thinking what I'm an NHL coach and assistant coach, and it wasn't, it was enough to live on. And I'm thinking, Okay, we sorry, we gotta be out of here. We gotta leave the country. You're pregnant. I've got $500 in my bank account. And we gotta go. We gotta move. And it was it was tough. Jill and I we've been married 46 years. In our marriage. We lived in 29 houses in our lives, and that meant it was we moved to a new city. I would rent the first year. We'd buy the second year and I'd get fired the third year, and then we'd rent Buy, Sell It was a bit it was a part of our life getting fired. I often say, every time I get fired, I doubled my salary every time and I was just talking to George DeLand, just fired his coach in New York Rangers. I kid I taught in high school, by the way, Todd Girard in high school just got fired as a ranger coach. And we were, he was telling me that every time he gets fired, he doubles in salary. So Well, that happened to me too for a while Gerard, and then all of a sudden, it went to a third when I went to the media went to a third. So don't always think it's gonna double. Anyway, that's, it's tough. It's it's the toughest part of the job. And nobody understands that, except the guy that's in the trenches. And it happens to and it's and when I had to fire coaches, I hate it. I hate it. And as the General Manager, I had to fire a couple of coaches, and I didn't like it a little bit.
Paul Barnett 31:01
Well, I want to ask you about this theory, you've got you and you just alluded, alluded to the salary. You carved out a third career very successful career as an analyst and a sports broadcaster. But the question is, how would Doug would claim the coach respond to you as a sports analyst?
Doug McLean 31:20
Immediate person in Columbus said to a friend of mine, this is a guy who didn't have a great relationship with in Columbus. He said, Doug McLean, the coach would hate Doug McClain, the analyst. And I thought, you know, he's probably right, you know, you're not it's it's sort of funny, I, it sort of happened. And I was so burned out. When I got when I left Columbus, after 11 years. I was burned out. And I thought, and I got a chance to go and, you know, go to Toronto and work in TV and radio. Hey, let's try this. Let's try this. And I went in, and it was my start to my, I just did a little bit part time virgin EMI, and then they offered me a full time job. And the boss said to me, Doug, if you are doing this job, to get another head coaching job or a Jim's job, you're not going to be successful. Because I need you to tell it the way it is. I need you to tell it the way it is. And you're going to ruffle some feathers. Well, I should have probably not listened to him. Because I told it the way it was and not sure to help me my career. I had a couple other opportunities to go back to the NHL and secondary type jobs, and I never really jumped at it. And then I had a 10 year career and Radio TV and I I really, really enjoyed it. I really did. And, you know, we had a we had a great show. That was huge. And in the US, hockey central at noon with Nick kypreos and Darren Maillard and two amazing people, Nick, who I coached, by the way, Baltimore, which is hard to believe, and with the Washington Capitals, ended up the way I got the job was Nick at play for me in Washington and Baltimore. And when I got fired, he he phoned me said, Hey, do you want me to talk to the bosses about you coming to work with us in Columbus, and this is Nick, who was a kid I used to deal with in the dressing room, and a good guy. And we've hit we, we hit it off as a great team. And so it's funny how a guy that I coached in the Baltimore skip Jacks helped me get a job in the media sounds pretty bizarre. So I had I had a wonderful run, and it was a great way to, again, watch the game, study the game, deal with people in the game, and talk about the game. It was a great combination. And I really, I've got to say I really enjoyed it.
Paul Barnett 34:20
Well, now of course, there's the there's the fourth element of the career, which is the book you've got coming out later this year. And it's called Draft Day, how hockey teams pick winners or get left behind. Could you tell us what was the impetus for the book?
Doug McLean 34:35
Well, it's funny I I retired sports and I was 66 years of age. And I got a call from Simon and Schuster, the publishing company and book publishing company in the guy phones me Yeah, actually, it was an agent phoned me. The book literary agent phoned me today. I love Simon Schuster. For me they they listen be on the show they knew your career would you can dinner doing a book and I know I really don't want to do a book. I really know it. Like I thought it was a book about me. And I didn't know I really have no interest in that. And he said, No, no, it's a book about the draft your experiences with the draft. And then I've changed it totally, because I thought, wow. But you know what? It was three years writing this book. One of the biggest challenges I've ever had in my life. I mean, I had written an email before, I had written an email. And I died. I have a master's from in educational psychology from college, and I, but that was 100 years ago, and I'm thinking, I gotta write, well, I took my wife, Jill got me a, you know, a think printer, not a printer, but a thing for my iPad that I could type on. And I started outlining chapters and making notes. And I was I wrote 14 chapters 7000 words over the last in a year and a half. Just about my stories. And it was M Scott Morrison, who wrote with me is a great writer. As I say you put he put the commas and periods. And but he did a lot more than that. He, he was my writer. But one of the great experiences and I talked to a ton of GMs a ton of coaches, hockey executives about the book, you know, for the book, and now I see it finished coming out in October. It's kind of exciting, you know, something I never thought I'd ever do. And it was a challenge. Let me tell you to sit and write and think about stories, and I go to bed at night. And who the hell is ever going to read this book? You know, so we'll see what happens when it comes up. Oh, but I it's got some great stories. And I think it's going to be a pretty good resource for hockey people. I really do.
Paul Barnett 37:02
Well, without giving too much away. I'd really like to know what you've learned about selecting players on draft day to join an organization?
Doug McLean 37:14
Well, I'll tell you why. The draft. The gist of the book is, if you don't, if an NHL team doesn't have at least 10 of their own draft picks on their team. They typically don't win the Stanley Cup. So drafting is so so important. And then a lot. I had a lot of hits and misses because you're drafting 17 and 18 year olds, and it is one of the toughest and every team has made colossal mistakes. And every team has made great picks. But when you're drafting 18 year olds, it is it is a crapshoot. It really is it is so now it's a little more refined when I done when I was there, but it's still you just if you just don't know if an 18 year old is going to be a player at 21 You just don't know that. So I go through the book and I I learned a lot about it. And when I say I have a do over with my media relations at times. If I could go back I think if I could go back now and draft after reading my book 100 times I think I'd be better at but there's one great story in there. Nick kypreos said to me, I made a selection in one draft where I took Joe bear brew lay at number six. And the battle at our table the battle all year was do we take Greer or cope guitar and cope guitar was sitting there at six and I took rear and I made the call to take and cope with Tara went 11 to La kid from Slovenia re air or rule A played 175 games in the NHL cope atari is still playing with the LA Kings. And he was picked 11 So I picked six I didn't take them at six and he didn't go to 11. So there's a lot of guys the same as me. That weren't that smart, you know, after me. So Nick Cabrio said to me one day, what do you think that pit you take and brew lay ahead of COVID are cost you as an NHL General Manager, I said well, I would say taking Brulee instead of corporate job, personally cost me about $30 million because I probably would still be a general manager today if I took carpenter You know, and I think back oh my god, you haven't been nights I lost sleep over thinking about that. But and I've been ripped up for that pick. But it's a great chapter in the book about why we went with that decision. And why take an 18 year old, you just, you just don't know. And there was seven or eight guys after me that made the same mistake, but it haunts me to this day. It haunts me, you know? So it's kind of funny. So the writing of the book really gave me another look at the whole NHL picture. And it was, it was fun to do. Yeah. But a ton of work. There will be no second book, let me tell you, I'll do podcast, but no second book.
The story he
Paul Barnett 40:45
But we're very happy that you're doing podcast. But maybe we can talk about that second book off here. But I want to ask you about your childhood. Because if I could take you back, Doug, knowing what you know, now, if I could take you back and introduce you to that, that boy that was skating around car Hill stadium for hours and hours and hours on end. Knowing what you know, now what would you say to him? Well,
Doug McLean 41:13
you know, I never forget mum and dad telling me that when they took me to skate for the first time at Cal stadium, they put me on the ice as a five year old and they mum came home and mum and dad were done. So you know, we never have to worry about Doug being in hockey. He's not going to be a player watching him, you know. And it became a huge part of my life. And I guess I would say it and I've said it to my own son when he Clark was growing up as a young player. Yeah, number one. To make it in hockey. You have to love the game. You've got to love the if you don't love the game, you don't have a chance. There's some players in the NHL that don't really love the game. But me huge percentage of them love the game. So if you love the game, chase your dreams. I went as far as Montreal Junior Canadiens St. Louis Blues NHL training camp, played junior hockey in a way I left home when I was 16 to pursue the dream 1000 miles away in Montreal. As a kid, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life to go away and try to be an NHL player. And then when I did become an NHL player and became a high school teacher, my dream was to be a coach and to make the NHL as an NHL coach from coaching in Summerside. Pei, so long way away, and I am I just saw, I guess it's everybody says, chase your dreams and but I just believe in yourself and, you know, shoot for as high as you can. It's amazing. If you fall short, you're still pretty, you're still in pretty good shape. So you got to chase your dreams and I dried dreamt about being a player and a coach. That's all I ever dreamt about. And I got to spend my whole career in hockey. How lucky am I seriously? unbelievably lucky.[SB5]
Paul Barnett 43:21
Doug, you've retired, you've come out and said that both coaching and GM work. And you've also stepped back mostly from the media work? Of course, you've got the book out. But the final question I'd like to ask you is sitting here now in Prince Edward Island, reflecting on all of these people that you've interacted with all these organizations you've been a part of, and people that you're still in contact today from, from your time when you were in your late teens. What do you think the legacy is that you've left with these people?
Doug McLean 44:00
Oh, I never really thought of that. Because I think I always think of legacies as things for famous people. You know, and I don't consider myself that. Hi, I often wonder you know what people would say about me when I'm when I'm gone and I I think it comes back to the thing I'm most proud of is treat people well treat people right. Be honest, and a straight shooter and sometimes it gets you in trouble. But I think that's that. You know, a loyal person, a loyal friend, a loyal teammate, a loyal coworker. That's what I'd be. If people said I was just, you know, an honest, loyal straight shooter. I'd be pretty happy.[SB6]
Paul Barnett 44:59
I think honest, loyal and straight shooting. probably a pretty good way for us to finish say, Doug, thank you so much for carving out a little bit of time today. I do appreciate hearing your story. I'd have appreciated learning a lot about your background and learning a little bit more about ice hockey as well. And I wish you all the best for the publication of the book.
Doug McLean 45:21
Appreciate it very much and thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it and very, very insightful questions. I typically don't get that in interviews, you know. All right. Well, I have to really think Thanks. Thanks.