Ep35_MarkColes_Edit1
Tue, 2/23 8:57PM • 37:54
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, cricket, new zealand, pakistan, girls, player, life, thought, understand, coaching, cricketer, team, game, sport, important, story, young ladies, little bit, people, talked
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Mark Coles
GRAB is underlined
Paul Barnett 00:00
Good afternoon, Mr. Mark coals and welcome to the great coaches podcast. How are you today?
Mark Coles 00:05
Good. Thanks, Paul. How are you?
Paul Barnett 00:08
I am very well thank you. And I'm happy to hear that New Zealand voice because you are the first New Zealand coach that we've interviewed.
Mark Coles 00:15
Well, it's nice to be the first on debut and representing the wonderful flag of New Zealand and, and the country that that I'm born from, but not living there.
Paul Barnett 00:24
Well, let's hope it's not the last. I'm gonna start with a really simple question, though. Can you tell us where you are in the world what you've been up to so far today?
Mark Coles 00:32
Well, I'm in Queensland, Australia in a lovely place called the Sunshine Coast. So I've just finished some coaching. And very hot temperatures here, we're just going through a heat wave of I think it was down to 32. But we've been up as high as 35. But pleasing to know that in the weekend, we're dipping back down to 28 degrees.
Paul Barnett 00:51
I'm sure there's a lot of people around the world listening who are very envious of your weather situation right now. Mark, if I could start this conversation with a little bit of a winding the clock back because you've coached first class cricket in Australia and New Zealand. And you've had some pretty good exposure, and some great exposure to some wonderful coaches. The two that really stand out and Mickey Arthur, and of course, the great Wayne Bennett, the rugby league coach. So I wanted to ask from this perspective, what is it you think the great coaches do differently?
Mark Coles 01:26
Well, look, I learned a lot from from Wayne Bennett. And Mickey and wine are very good at one thing they understand the pliers. And I think that's really important. And particularly where I came from and Pakistan, it was great to be able to spend time with mechi and really understand religion, what it mean to the players, both men and women, and the important part of played in a life, but also to understand that the backgrounds that they came from, and some came from very, very modest backgrounds, and some came from backgrounds that for a western world were okay, they were reasonable backgrounds, but every flag sort of was a very much an individual and had a real story to tell. And some of those stories were quite staggering and quite frightening. To be fair.
Paul Barnett 02:17
We're gonna get on to your experience catching Pakistan a little later. But I wanted to just ask a few leadup questions if I could first because I was listening recently to an interview that you gave and someone asked you what advice would you give to a young cricketer, who's thinking of becoming professional, and you said, understand your role. And I thought that was probably a good place to start. So what's the role of a coach when they cricket coach, when they get to the elite level,
Mark Coles 02:45
I always believe that if you just the to guide and support, I mean, if they've got to the top of the game, the talented, they've got all the they've got all the skills, they've got the technical skills, they've got the because they're good enough to get there. I think a lot of what a coach does is give them that belief that they can play at that level, and give them a very clear understanding of the role that they're going to play in the team. And I think once players understand the role that they play in the team that will then give them that confidence to be able to execute that role. So part of what what I've learned in my role is to really give that player a real clear understanding and clarity around what their role is. And I always found that when we were on tour that breakfast was the best time to do it. I because I really enjoyed breakfast, that be you caught them before a practice session or before the game started. And it's a very simple question. Do you have any questions about your role today? And most of the time, if they look at you and say yes, or they shake their head, then you need to know that they don't quite understand the role. It's a pretty easy question. It's a nice, no answer. So I really enjoyed that I really enjoyed sitting down with them at breakfast and spending time with them. Before we went to a practice or before we went to the game[PB1]
Paul Barnett 04:03
market, you got an example of a player who through explaining their role to them, you were able to encourage and improve their performance.
Mark Coles 04:14
Yeah, look, I think probably sannomiya, who ended up being the number one bowler in the world, and she was ready to retire. When I came in. she'd gone through a lot of issues with media and through coaches, and she wasn't in a great space. And I said to her look, I'm new to this. But where I want this team to be is to is just to try and improve a little bit and enjoy their cricket more. They weren't enjoying their cricket. And I see you're a big part of that as a leader in this team. Not that she wasn't the captain anymore, but she was going to be a leader. But I said I think there needs to be something for you to strive for. So I said what is that going to be? And she said, Well, I I want to be the number one bowler in the world and I feel that if I can do that, in the team's performance will improve well That's pretty obvious. So I said, Well, how are we going to do that. And she came up with some ideas. And together, we made her role very clear about where she was going to go, what the plan was, where she was betting what her plan was, where she was going to feel, because she was getting an old line is that she wasn't moving as quick. So we needed to make sure that she knew where she was going to field and where she was going to bed and the role that she was playing. And no surprise, she was very, very clear. Every international game, she played what role she would play in that game. And we also had a backup plan in case she got hit early on with the ball. And so we understood that, okay, if she got hit that didn't really matter, the outcome was over here.[PB2] So that's one player, it worked really well for her. But I think it worked really well for all the players that they really understood the roles and attainment proved, well, we did, we didn't arrive near the end, we were winning some games,
Paul Barnett 06:00
he did better than all right, you took him up to being ranked fourth in the world. But again, I want to hold that back a little bit. Because I do want to paint a little bit of the backstory and in reading about your story, and learning a little bit about you growing up in New Zealand, I can say that your father was very influential on your own love of cricket. And I think your development as a cricketer as well. He was good cricketer himself. And I wanted to ask, if you evaluate your own coaching style and philosophy today, what elements of your father Michael, do you see reflected in the way you go about the craft of coaching?
Mark Coles 06:34
Oh, well, he, yeah, he was very determined. He was a determined man, he still is he's, he always wanted to win. And that probably isn't a good trait to have. I think that's one of the traits that I don't like, everybody wants to win. But there's a process that you have to go through to win games or cricket, or any sport, that's probably not a trait that I have. But just as determination and as passion for cricket, that strong through for me, and has has just relentless way of wanting to be better every day and train. And those are the things that he sort of gave me as an up and coming cricketer, but also to carry on. In the coaching area, there's no excuse that there's only one way you're going to get better. And that's hard work. You have a look at all the great sports men across the planet and every sport. Two words, they work hard. And they probably work harder than the average athlete. And that's just the way that it is whether it's Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, or Tiger Woods, or Steve Smith, they all work hard[PB3] . And
Paul Barnett 07:39
he said something interesting in Mark, he said wanting to be better, your father always wanted to be better. And I want to talk now about this journey to Pakistan, you lying on the couch, you seal and you come up with an idea to go and coach Pakistan, but in the job initially paid nothing. But you did. It wanted to be better as a human being you were at a level where your confidence was low. And you've talked about the challenges personal and mental health challenges you were having at the time. And it must have taken pretty deep self awareness to know that you needed something so drastic to move your life forward.
Mark Coles 08:15
Well, I think this is probably a really important story for all coaches out there, because I think all coaches suffer from those desperate and sometimes difficult times as a coach. It's very lonely as a coach. And I certainly have been through my fair share of personal battles. And I guess that's where I got to on the couch where I was in a position where I could either go one way, which wasn't a great path, or try and do something that was completely outrageous, and scary, but quite possibly, and I didn't know at the time, and I sat on the couch and a cold winter's night in July in New Zealand, whether it was going to be productive or lead me down a path of destruction. So it was amble and I ended up thankfully, it's been the best thing that I've ever done.
Paul Barnett 09:05
Tell us a little bit about that gamble. If you could take it from the journey from that couch on deceit 54. f to landing in Pakistan.
Mark Coles 09:16
Yeah, look at is a seed, you know, there was some real battles that I was going on internally in my own life. But I knew I needed to do something. And I got hold of Mickey Arthur, who I knew from Western Australia, and I said, Look, I've just seen these girls play. They're not very good. But I said, I reckon I could turn things around. So do you want to if you can, and they're interested. The short story is they were and a man sort of rang and I thought he was just having me on it was someone one of my mates having me on and it ended up being this guy from Pakistan. And before I knew it, I was my wife. Michelle was talking to the lady at the Emirates counter and because I couldn't, because I was so nervous. I got given a ticket. I was sitting there on my way to Dubai, and then landed in Dubai. And before I knew it, I had 12 hours there and then blow me down. I was on a plane full of Pakistanis hitting the law and landed there at 230 in the morning. Hate was just unbearable. And a man yelled out to me remember this is to call us, Mr. polis. And I thought, I looked around me and I thought, I don't think there's too many Mr. coses, which I think he's trying to say, in this plane. So I'll take a gamble again, because this is the only one I've got leave. Because if this guy doesn't come through, I'm not sure where I'm going on what I'm doing. But I know that I'm in Lahore, and I said, put up my hand. And he calls he said, Yes, calls, Mr. calls, Mr. calls, come, come come. And then I was surrounded by police and police, and then frogmarched out of Lahore airport into a white Toyota high a van, with police behind us and cars and police in front with sirens going motoring through the towns of Lahore at 230 in the morning, and I kinda thought then that I might be quite important. However, it dawned on me when I was in my beads still at 330 in the morning, wide awake, that went on to say, all those police around me, and then the 10 foot high fences that are now in this compound, I think that means that I might be a target here. So things got a bit scary. And then when waking up in the morning, and seeing the two snipers on each side of the building, made me think, yeah, this is quite high powered. And then of course, the journey began. Everywhere I went, I had an armed guard. And then the most brilliant journey of dealing with these young girls and, and understanding the lives that they lead and their families that they come from status.
Paul Barnett 11:52
It's an amazing story we'll be putting a link to, to the article that goes in depth about what happened in the show notes. I'm sure everyone's reading about it as much as Jim and I did. But it's also a great story of redemption, like your own personal redemption, your improvement in your health and your outlook on life. And I think ultimately, which we'll get to later on, I guess your improvement as a father and a husband. But initially, there's a little bit of cricket to talk about, because women's cricket, and I found this fascinating to understand was only introduced into Pakistan in 1998. Until then, you know, women and girls have not been allowed to play in open fields because of the country's conservative Muslim values. So you, you're going on this journey. But you've been watching this team who, who I imagine must be some of the most resilient people you've ever met, because they would have had to have fought so hard to get onto that field. So what did you learn about resilience watching those players develop?
Mark Coles 12:49
A, there's just some amazing stories there. And I don't think people really understand what these young ladies had to go through to get on the field as you quite rightly so. I mean, for instance, brothers and fathers, beating them because they were going to cricket, and not badminton, and all these things. And so that just teaches you so much about coaching, winning doesn't matter. Winning getting them on the field is winning for them. But because they were abused in the media, it's a waste of money, women's cricket, they should be in the kitchen. And they had to put up with all of this, and then not being paid for six months, because the PCB at a particular time that the administration thought that it was a really good idea that I pay them for three months building up the world, because that will make them hungry to perform at the World Cup. And then when they didn't perform in the World Cup, surprisingly enough, they didn't pay them because they performed so badly. So when I came in these girls hadn't been paid for six months. And it wasn't until I listened to a few conversations and understood. So resilience. That, for me is resilience in itself. [PB4] And the same girl that got beaten up by the mother and father because she was going to credit had to drink water from behind the building because she couldn't be seen with the boys got typhoid three times. But not only that, she had to cut all her hair off, because they were beating her up on the bass. So being a coach of this cricket team became not so much the technical side of it, which obviously I was responsible for giving them information and ideas. But it also made you understand a whole lot of things about life, that life over on the Sunshine Coast. It's pretty easy. I mean, first world issues. Goodness me I have to get in a car and drive up the road five K's to coach this girl traveled two and a half hours to and that's just one story. So I think it just taught me so much about people and the pride and the passion that they had to try and play for the country to make the effect. Emily's proud of them, and to feel that they were contributing to the next generation of young ladies that probably feel that at the moment or at any time, they can't play sport, so they became ambassadors. And we talked a lot about just leaving the jersey in a better place. So when when someone comes in, and you're an ambassador of, of young ladies in Pakistan, it's a long winded answer.
Paul Barnett 15:24
It's not alone. It's not a long winded answer at all. It's tremendous. And I wonder, has it changed the way you it's gonna sound terribly paternalistic, but has it changed the way you've fathered your own children? When it comes to teaching them resilience because of this experience you've had?
Mark Coles 15:42
Yes. And what and it's changed me as a CEO is the thing that little things get you down. But when you think about, you go back and you try and think about all these things that these girls go through. It doesn't seem as bad. Nothing's that bad that you have to go through that. And making it another little story is making cricket balls because they the PCB made them pay for their own cricket balls. At one stage. This is the previous administration, it was a personal expense. So these girls said No, well, I can't afford that, because we're not getting paid. So they get supermarket shopping bags together, and then put it over a hot frying pan to crystallize it. So that plastic crystallizes. And then that was the cricket ball in the chop down trees, and put in the stamps. This is a national cricket player. But this is what she had to do to try and get better. So I always teach now the girls, always just try and be your best. But always think of the positive things. Just believe in your own ability. And nothing's too difficult. There's no way that you can't do anything. Because these girls can do it. And you can do it. We don't need to make our own cricket balls over here. We're very lucky. But they always found a way these girls always found a way. Okay, you have to pay for their own cricket ball, right? What do I have to do, I have to try and think of a way of getting a cricket ball. So they came up with that. And she was a national plan. It's
Paul Barnett 17:07
unbelievable. You talking of national players, if we can, I'll move on, actually, because we could have a whole episode on resilience. But there's, there's more to your story than there's more to your story that I want to get to because you talked about sannomiya in the opening. And she found this great quote, actually, when she was reflecting on you and your style, she said, Mark brought neutrality to the team, because he had no bias towards any player. That was very refreshing. He was quite sensitive, and very respectful of our culture, which made the girls very open to what he was bringing. And this theme of sort of sensitivity runs through a little bit of your story actually, in other elements of your your your coaching journey. I wanted to ask how important is this sensitivity? And maybe you could even define it? How important is it to you and your coaching style?
Mark Coles 17:57
Look, I think there's different teams have different sensitivity. I mean, I've over here now I'm dealing with some young men who have their own issues. So I think over here, it's a little bit more you have to be understanding of young men and what they're doing and where they're at. And over there, I think it was, I was very aware of the religion and how megapath religion pay plays in their lives. And that Allah is the most important person in their life, even more so than sometimes their own families. And I needed to understand that prayers and prayer time was very important to them. So I went in there and said, the most important thing that you need to do is make sure that you're praying five times a day, I do not want cricket, to be the biggest thing in your lives, the biggest thing in your life is your family and your religion. Okay, it's third, and sometimes even fourth, and fifth and sixth. But we need to make sure that you're keeping up with your prayers that you're not missing out on them. That family's really important. And if you have an issue, you can feel safe to come and say, Look, Mark, I'm not going to be at practice today. Because mums not well, or whatever it is. Now I needed to build that trust up, just having the name coach doesn't give you an automatic right to be a leader, you've got to earn that respect[PB5] . So in terms of me, I understood that understanding their religion was really important. And that built up that respect, I guess, and the fact too, that I went in to fight for them. So I went to the PCP and I said, they're no longer gonna pay for that out. You can't wait, I can't get this team better. If you keep making them pay for cricket balls. I can't get this team better if you're not going to pay for them. So that gave me a little bit of some water in the basket, so to speak, because they thought hey, here's a man that's going to go into fight for us. And once the top man knew that they weren't getting paid, he made sure that they did get paid, so to speak to him. So I guess that gave me that real, not power, but again Maybe I'll use the word respect again, it gave me some trust that they started to trust me that, yes, religions important use our family is important. And yes, you do fight for us. And so we're building that trust with you. And it was very difficult being a Western man and in the Muslim world.
Paul Barnett 20:18
Maybe in some ways, though, it's like Santa Maria said, in this quote, you brought neutrality to the team. Maybe that was exactly what they needed.
Mark Coles 20:28
I think at the time it was because I think, again, they suffer for and a lot of coaches out there, as I understand that, these kurachi, and there's little girls, and there was a real, it's sort of like Queensland and New South Wales, in the State of Origin, or all the All Blacks in Australia, or England and Scotland, there was that real battle zone between these two cities, I didn't have that if you were from karate, that's great. didn't bother me. And if you were from Lahore, that didn't bother me that I just wanted to get some girls together, that would really want to play for Pakistan and be the best that they could be. And we always talked about being 1% better every day, if we could just be 1% better every diet practice, being together as a group for thing 1620, we're 20% better as a team. And they related to that I can be 1% there. And in the end, they said, Matt, I'm not going to be 1% better, I'm going to be 5% today, and I said that's fantastic. Because together we'll be 30% better. And so that was a big thing for me. [PB6] And I also encouraged them to come to practice, and be proud to make mistakes. So we had this, this real pack that we wanted to practice sadly. And so we do different things just to just to give reverse sweeps ago and and heading over the top and cricket teams for those people that don't know, you know, it's buying different shots and bowling slower balls, which they started to get used to. But they were happy to make mistakes, because then they'd say, Hey, I made a mistake. But at least I did it. And so we just tried to be positive because of what was going on outside of cricket with a lot of them. A lot of the stuff going on outside of cricket was really hard. So cricket should be a place that you come and enjoy and have fun whilst learning a little bit, hopefully from this old bloke from New Zealand.
Paul Barnett 22:26
So 2016 at the World Cup, they don't win a game. You You roll up with this new energy, this new focus wanting to turn your life around and there's and then things start to improve. And you were the coach when they beat New Zealand for the first time. Now, there was quite an unusual preparation for this New Zealand match. And I and it's quite technical. And I think there's a lot of coaches out there that would be really interested in the technical aspects of what you did that day to prepare the team because we all know, beating New Zealand in any sport is a very difficult thing to do. They don't they never lie down as a nation and they're very proud sporting nation. Some would say one of the proudest on Earth. But could you share with us this very technical and sophisticated approach you're used to preparation that day?
Mark Coles 23:15
I think I know which one you're talking about? Well, look, wait, wait, we didn't close in the first ODI. And I could feel that that was nine in a row the girls had lost and now because they've lost every game in the world. And we were so close to beating them and it was a funny feeling to me. I thought I feel like a traitor here. I'm getting these fools to try and beat New Zealand and really adopted this team but singing the national anthem was real pull me push me type situation. And then we got beaten the second one pretty badly. Divine, Sophie Devine and Susie Bates were a great player will play as tore us apart. As I was sitting in a hotel room. And I thought, right, we were playing the next day we've been to this restaurant previously, I thought dammit, you know, drinking wasn't my thing. I knew that I had to stay away from that. But my second love was ice cream. And I thought, you know what, I feel like an ice cream. And so I caught a team meeting. And I think the girls thought Oh, do I said I was quite firm in the messages. He brought 715 in the foyer. We're all meeting all staff, all plants. And I made it pretty clear. But I've already done a deal with the guy down at the restaurant. So they all meet down there and they're all very cautious and where are we going and what are we doing? I said follow me so we follow up with me and through and and it was a five minute walk and they're all following me. And I felt like Farmer Brown because all the little sheep I should have been. There was like all these little sheep were following. And all these people were watching and the 121 people behind this white flag and flew by going through the supermarket we finally in there and I see right line up if you want chocolate ice cream, strawberry ice cream, vanilla, not too many takers in the vanilla queue. Quite a few in the strawberry and then a lot and the chocolate 16 in the chocolate. Yeah. So I seem to the garden run off. And they looked at me like, Oh, well, this isn't even happened to us before. And a couple of the girls, senior girls came up with some upset. I was one of them. She said, What are you doing? And I said, Well, I was feeling really bad about the last today. And I thought, well, in two days time in New Zealand, and I enjoy ice cream. And I noticed that you enjoyed ice cream as well, just quietly, but I thought, well, what better way to try and motivate ourselves if we could all have an ice cream? Once he said to me, he said, you know, Mac, you're quite salty. Let's see if I need just like we all had ice cream. And then they said, are we meeting? And I said, No. And they said, Well, what what should we do now? And I said, Well, here's a more. last count, I saw they were about 200 shops. I said, girls, I know. Ladies pretty well, across the board, they enjoy shopping, my suggestion, go for your life. I'm going back to the hotel and getting some sleep. So two days later, we come up against New Zealand and the rest is history. I did it again when we were down one nil against the West Indies. But then some of the girls that were in Dubai will have suddenly caught on. You're taking us for ice cream? I said, Yes, you're right. I am. And strangely enough, we ended up winning that series as well. So people have called me the ice cream coach, but I'm not really sure as a reflection of my ability. Or perhaps it is.
Paul Barnett 26:35
He talked earlier actually about fun, and how important it was for the team in Pakistan. And it seems to be really central to your coaching values, I guess, what are the values are really central to who you are as a coach.
Mark Coles 26:49
I think respect for the game, and particularly cricket, it's such a long history of the game, for those that are from different parts of the world, you know, crickets a gentleman's game that was first played in England. And so there's a lot of history to the game and respect for the game and and respect for each other. And the opposition as well. I mean, everybody wants to win. But I think there's that fine line where winning becomes just an obsession, and just having that respect. And I think that goes for all sports, you need to respect the past and the future. [PB7] We talked a lot about that. But we also talked a lot about how we wanted to be seen as Pakistani representing Pakistan. And we wanted to be seen as great ambassadors for the game. And for young ladies back in Pakistan. So if they did hear about a win that we might have, whether New Zealand or the West Indies, or whoever that they were proud that women's team is doing us proud on the world stage. So we talked about being proud and having that belief as well. So I hear a lot of things. But I just think that there are three major things. There's respect his honesty, and I think there's pride that you play for as well. But respect covers off a lot of things. And then I don't think you really need too many more things. I see a lot of teams have a lot of things and put a lot of things on walls. And I sometimes think that's a little bit of noise. For me, I just think you need to keep it really simple. I don't think you need to complicate it with too many words. Just pretty easy and go out and, and we talked a lot about one thing that we did talk about was enjoyment, win or lose, we're gonna have fun together, and we're gonna laugh at each other. Because Because in cricket because it's so long 50 overs, 300 balls, someone's gonna do something strange or funny or turn over or, or whatever. And we say what doesn't matter? It's not embarrassing. It's gonna happen to somebody else. So we talk a lot about having fun too, and enjoying each other's company.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 28:47
Mark reading and learning about you. It's been fantastic. You also, you're so refreshingly open, you know, you talk about being insecure, particularly when you were growing up and heavily doubting yourself when you were younger. And you talk about your battles with alcohol to sort of cope with these feelings and the self esteem. But given your own life experience, how do you help other athletes deal with self doubts and insecurities? Because I imagine you've got some good experience in that area as well?
Mark Coles 29:15
Yeah, I do. And you know, we're on coaching at the moment, there's a couple of young guys that are battling some demons as well. And I guess it's about being vulnerable. And I think that's really important as a coach to be vulnerable. And when I took over this role that I'm currently in at the moment, you know, I sort of reflected on my story a little bit and where I come from, and believe me, it's never easy talking about it, because it's still pretty raw. And I find it quite hard sometimes. But I think if you can be vulnerable as a coach, it allows your players to go, okay, there's a human side to this man. And I think it allows them to feel that they can come and approach you and say, Hey, you know what, I've had a terrible day at work today. And would you mind if I just do my thing? And then head off, or my sister's not going so well at the moment because she's having some issues with some drugs or whatever it might be and things like that. And that's okay, too. I understand that. And I guess it just being vulnerable, makes you open to, dare I say, it's like wearing the Emperor's clothes, almost, you've almost stripped yourself here. But it allows people to know that you're human, because I think a lot of the time people look at coaches and go or be there. What would he think if I said that, and I and at the moment with the group that I've got, I always say, you know what, it's okay to come and say something, it's better to say something and get it out. And understand that it stays in these four walls than keep it inside, you just get to the stage where I got to in my life, which was no good, doesn't do anyone any good.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 30:50
You've spoken about the fact that being a great player gives you insight into the struggles of being a professional athlete. But there are other areas that are important off the field, which means a great players might not automatically make great coaches. So with that thought in mind, I wanted to ask you, if you would have put together a coaching syllabus for retiring players who wanted to coach, what would be the title of some of the chapters you'd have in that, in that syllabus.
Mark Coles 31:15
Start from the beginning. And I see a lot of coaches and a lot of great players going straight into the top teams. And I kind of think as a coach, you need to understand and under 15 boys team or an under 17, and under 19, and the club team, and then work your way through. And look, that's no disrespect to any cricketers that have gone or any sports people that have gone from being a player to a coach. But there are some out there quite a few. And in actual fact, that have really struggled from being a great player to being a coach. Because when you're a great player, you get managed, you've got a manager, you've got someone to say the right, or you need to be on the bus at 830. This is what's going to happen today. This is what's going to happen tomorrow. And this is what we're going to do. But you've got your teammates as well that you can go off and and either celebrate or commiserate with when you're a coach, you've got to separate yourself out from that. And I think it's really important to understand that being a coach is a really lonely, lonely position. And we talked about the ice cream story. But you're in a hotel room a lot of the time by yourself trying to think about what went wrong? Why did we lose this game, who's coming up next, I've got to try and make the plans and be really prepared. And I think that it's really important that you understand to do that right throughout the coaching levels. I believe it's a good thing to do an apprenticeship so to speak. [PB10] And I know that doesn't happen all the time. And look, there are some great players that have been great coaches, but a lot of them when you look back Wayne Bennett, not a great player of rugby league, Steve Hansen, the all black coach was never an all black. And a lot of these others too, that have been great players and great coaches. But I always just think that you needed a European chip, but that's just me, I do mine. So I think everybody else should do the same. Life's not fear.
Paul Barnett 33:11
Any other chapters you might have in
Mark Coles 33:12
there. Understand your pliers, which I hear a lot of coaches and look, I have no doubt that they do but really have a deep understanding of where they're coming from, and what they're really needing. I always think about three questions I say to some of the players that I'm dealing with it man, give me three things that's going to make you a better player, or a better person, tell me three things that are going to help you be a better player or a better person. And most of the time, at least one of them if not to it's not about cricket, or it might not be about football or rugby, or hockey or whatever it is. It'll be about something outside of life. And that being starts to make the connection between the coach and the athlete really important.
Paul Barnett 33:56
So Mark, you finished in Pakistan, two years, traveling back and forth, separated from your family. He said, enough was enough. And he came home. And your wife said to you read this quote to you because it's a Ripper. Market always battled with his own confidence. Now he's much more aware of what he's capable of. Because he's learned how to believe in himself. He lives in the moment. And he's a better father too. So if you could go back in give your nine year old self knowing what you know, now some advice. What do you think it would be?
Mark Coles 34:29
There is no such word as failure, no such word. And every day, if you can be 1% better, then you're going to be a better human being and you're going to be better at your sport or whatever your lovers and I just think that that's probably a really important message. I never wish that you could go back but I've got an 11 year old young lady now and a 17 year old daughter as well and I look at them and I they're starting to get into some sport and sometimes you hear them say I Can I just say, No, there's no such thing as Can you take away the T shirts can, you just got to be the best that you can be, and try and be 1% better every day. And I think, you know, if you're trying to be well, and everybody knows why people will say 1% better, I can be 5% better, you know what, great, I only asked for 1%. Most people can do 1%. And I just think that that's such a great message to give to the kids and adults and teens and everything[PB11] . And as I said before, if you can get a group of 15, or 16, or how many of you are in your squad, and say, You know what, today, we're all gonna try and be 1% better, you 16% better if you've got 16 members in your team, you're going to be a pretty good team. So the great
Paul Barnett 35:45
thing about this idea of 1% better this idea of marginal gains, which I've actually heard other coaches talk about not a lot, but others is that yours was tested. And it worked. Because when you left, that team had climbed up to be ranked fourth in the world. And reflecting on it, you said I've enjoyed the journey a lot. We have a great group of young ladies, we're starting to create a legacy for other young females in Pakistan, which is just a phenomenal, phenomenal idea. So in closing, I wanted to ask you, what is it the legacy that you want to leave as a coach?
Mark Coles 36:20
Oh, wow, I I think if people that I've coached or anything, I think if they just say it made me laugh, and I learned something. And I enjoyed the game of in my in my sport cricket, then that's okay by me. Here, some of our guys say, Come on, boys. Let's be 1% better today for cozy. And that. That kind of makes me feel pretty cool because at least the message is getting across and albeit they might be a bit tongue in cheek but I guess if someone says in my eulogy at the at the end of it always be 1% better, then I guess you're making a little bit of a difference in life, in a sport or outside of the sporting field.[PB12]
Paul Barnett 37:06
Mark calls. It's been fantastic interviewing you today. I've loved reading about your story. It's so refreshing. It's so selfless and it just shows such great resilience. I want to thank you for spending a little bit of time with us sharing that story.
Mark Coles 37:20
Oh, Paul, thank you so much for having me. And as I said, you know earlier on off before we started this interview, I often go along to Lula beach and I'm listening to all these fantastic coaches that you've got on I'm very humbled to be even invited, you know, onto the show. You're doing a fantastic job. I love all the coaches and so much little stuff from the coaches that thank you for having me. You're doing a fantastic job.
Paul Barnett 37:44
Thanks Mark. And as I look out the window, frog I'll be thinking of you on that beach
37:51
brilliant