Ep37_AnthonyMcGrath_Edit1
Fri, 3/19 12:44PM • 42:08
Grab is underlined
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
players, coach, people, decision, batsman, play, captain, team, darren, cricket, cricket club, yorkshire, essex, coaching, real, talk, important, thought, game, dressing room
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Anthony McGrath
Paul Barnett 00:00
So good morning, Anthony McGraw and welcome to the Great coach's podcast. I'm Paul, how are you? I'm going okay. It's a cold and snowy morning here in Prague. Where in the world are you? And what have you been up to today
Anthony McGrath 00:12
is cold and snowing here, too. I'm in Leeds at the moment. We're still on lockdown over here. So we've not started trending back down in Essex. I've been at home with a family very early this morning with a young woman out to the supermarket and other chores are being given. So I've been quite busy Actually, this morning. And our guests can't see you. But you are in a buttoned down well on shirt great attire for going to the grocery store. Yeah, not I wouldn't say I end, but this is probably the smartest I've been for a while, for obvious reasons with COVID and locked down. But yeah, this morning. wasn't much clean. I'm not gonna lie. So my grabbed his shirt out of the and added to the supermarket. So yeah, well, we thought it was for us. So we appreciate that for the interview is of course, of course.
Paul Barnett 01:01
Anthony, I'm looking forward to talking a bit of cricket with you, because you've had some great experiences as a player and a coach. But it's the coaching side, we'd like to drill into a little bit today. And I think I'd like to start by just talking to you a little bit about some of the great coaches you've worked with. So, of course, there's Jason Gillespie, the Australian Duncan Fletcher at a great international career. And now, the New England coach, Chris silverwood. So just an easy question to get going. What do you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Anthony McGrath 01:32
I mean, you mentioned Jason, and Chris, who I've worked with quite a lot, Duncan, I played under England, but it was only a shorter period. The other one I put into that is when clarcor Australian came over and cut Josh, he was with us for a couple of years. I think that probably synergy with all of them is the calmness within the group, very consistent that we didn't really know too much whether they were happier, with a result or performance, or we'd lost. And I think the simplicity of the message, it didn't really over talk, we kept it very, very simple, kind of left you wanting more as a player and a coach listening to them. And I think all of them had that. Just a real simplicity to it. Sometimes you can get coaches come in and try and be the smartest guy in the room and speak for hours and say I've done this, I've done that. And ultimately, that doesn't last for long. So I think that the great coaches are that the real inspirations I've seen and played under, I've had them traits,[PB1]
Paul Barnett 02:34
calmness, is that something that you're noted for now?
Anthony McGrath 02:39
I think so. I mean, I've always been a fairly laid back personality. But my experience as a player when kind of leader captain, our coaches, you know, everyone wants to be calm and cool and collected. But when things are not going well, that's kind of when you see kind of someone goes back to default, either when you're winning, and you go really high or low. So I think I've kind of had that all the way through. But it's something I was very aware of transitioning into a player and a coach is to try and become whatever's happening, whether it comes the right word, but level headed in every situation. Winning and losing happens a lot on different days. And I don't think you get can get too carried away. There's a lot of permutations where you win and lose. But I think if you are consistent as a personality, I think the guys the players can see that. And they know that they're not if you're praising someone when they've got 105. And then you bring it in and when they've not done well. Again, that doesn't go down too well. So I think that levelness players seem to respond better to that, in my opinion.
Paul Barnett 03:49
So let's talk about your transitioning because you retire in 2012. And you move straight into coaching with your ci, and four years later, four short years later, you're appointed as the head coach in Essex. But was there a personal event during your playing career that really inspired you to want to be a coach?
Anthony McGrath 04:09
Yeah, a couple. I mean, my first role as a coach was a mentor enrolled when I first left as I wasn't actually on the staff at Yorkshire, I was coming in sporadically, but really that to chat with the players, whether they were out of the team injured, any kind of problems. So that's when it first kind of put me is there is more to this than the technical side of things. But I think my inspiration in terms of culture is really about two people wearing Clark who I mentioned at the beginning, who'd came from, I think, Western Australia and took over at Yorkshire and he was completely different to what I'd ever seen as a coach at Yorkshire. It's very, very traditional turn up in blazer, clean shaven, very technically driven. When was completely different. He just didn't treat everyone the same. Very individualised, you know, he had a good manner about him. And that was the first time I thought God, there is a different way here to do things. It's the first time I'd seen it. And that that might sound strange to a lot of people. But for a lot of our players that were alien, they really got to know the players, he, he went out of his way, when he wasn't technically working to support players go and see him at the homes, that kind of thing. So that was always stuck in my mind. And the second one was Darren lumen, who, as a player for yaksha was sensational, someone I'm close to, and he always had a guess, as well as being a fantastic player, but someone who's laid back from enjoyed himself, not your stereotypical coach. And when he went into coaching and was successful, pretty much straight away. Again, I thought, jeez, that's the stories I'd heard. There was one story about fidelma Edwards, who was coming to play for him in the IPL and Daraa met him off the plane. And I think he said very simply fidelia I want you to have fun and I want you to bowl as fast as possible. And two very simple instructions, apparently Fidel massive smile on his first, you know, went out and and was was superb. And it Look, it's a it's a nice little story. But that is something that again, stuck with me something so simple, Darren tapped into his personality knew what it was like, didn't want to be too technical. And again, that just stuck with me as you can influence your own personality onto the coach. And there's not just one way to do it. Because when I was growing up, it was more technical, getting the nets, get your top arm up, get your fingers in, and that was coaching. Whereas those two examples of guys probably showed me there was another way to do things.
Paul Barnett 06:44
So at Essex, you work your way up from this sporadic mentoring the players and you move up to being in charge of the batsman. And that was the team went up to the First Division. Yeah. And the next year, they promptly win the championship, the first in 25 years. So I wanted to just take a step back, actually, though, and so when it comes to coaching batsmen, we all know the technical elements of this skill, because we watch it on the TV, and we hear that the pundits explaining it, but what are the key elements of the mental side of betting that you worked on, when you were coaching those batsman?
Anthony McGrath 07:20
I think this self awareness and decision making is big in a batsman wanting to we always talk about making good decisions, and it's the same as a batsman and as a team. You want a player to be self aware, each player is so different. An individualised method, I think, is key. I mean, people talk about Yes, mental toughness and robustness and concentration. I think if someone's self aware, and they're really analysing the decisions, or making the best decisions based on their game plan, I think they've got a real good chance and I think tapping into how a player learns, is he gonna pick up technical work? Or will it just make him clunky? The imagery stuff, so really getting to know that player yet you do a little bit of work before you go down there, or I did before xx, you know, you get to know as much as you can. A little bit of analysis and stat stuff help you. But I think until you start working with that player, everyone's just so different. But I think if you're self aware and curious, you can then start getting plugged in a path. [PB2] I would say a coach who wants the players to make their own decisions. I don't want to be a coach who's saying look, this is my experience you should do it this way or you should do it like Alistair cook, I should do it like Joe root, whoever it may be. Yes, you can pick up points from different players but a player has to play his own path because when the real pressure comes on the cruncher moments, the player will then reboot back to himself rather than think this is what the coach told me. So I think if he's real crystal clear of his method and his plan is my chance to sort of see so just working you know, kind of being really crystal clear on on the player's own individualised method.
Paul Barnett 09:08
Anthony's there one player in particular, that you can see your work on helping them build their self awareness and decision making help them take the next step.
Anthony McGrath 09:19
Yeah, I think there's examples within the team I think, players when I was playing, I think I started making a diary probably halfway through my career. And it was amazing how many negative thoughts I add as a as a batsman until I started writing things down and thinking Jeez, this is this is terrible. I'm just thinking, subconsciously, so many negative things. So there's a couple of play that Essex that we introduced that kind of thing too. And again, that's really helped them develop that decision making the self awareness how I feel in certain situations. So something like a self taught diary can help but a self awareness might be In a someone taking up too much time in a net, when their teammates are wanting to come in are, how their body languages around the group, just be more self aware as the person it's not just as a cricket area.[PB3] So this, there's quite a lot of examples. I mean, as a baton unit we're probably older than the polling unit. You know, we've we've got a few young batters but we've people like Alistair Cooke around tend to scatter a tom Wesley have played a lot of time. So when you're working with them, guys that they're almost topping up things rather than going through the journey from the beginning.
Paul Barnett 10:33
I think the idea of a self talk diary is applicable to just about anybody. Yeah. Are you still using it now? As a coach? Yes,
Anthony McGrath 10:42
yeah. I mean, it was a guy, Kevin Sharpe, who was a batting coach at yaksha, who really introduced me to it. And I've still got every day out from when I started doing that back in, I think 2001 to present day and I still do it now as a coach. And just looking back through them. Over the years, I shared a couple of them with the players ethics. And I think the more honest and open you can be when you're writing stuff down this stuff in there you think, oh, God did I actually think that that's terrible, but that I think you're just a human being you have these thoughts, you have self doubt you have times when you're down. But it's okay to do that. And I think the more you do it, your language change, your positivity change. And you know, what you think, in your own head is a real bad, I'm really worried about first in walk our unit, so I'm worried about isn't too bad. When you actually discuss it with someone get it off, you get it off your chest and get it in the open. And I guess that's like life discussing anything. But it has really helped me as a player. And now as a coach, because I get you get so many things wrong. Even now, when we're not coaching you. You're speaking to players over zoom and phone and you come off the chat or the video and you're thinking did Did I get that right? I've got my message across. So yeah, you're constantly thinking about every day in your conversations about how you come across the people are are the language you use the word you use. So writing that down and just reflecting me personally, it really helps.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 12:30
Anthony, you've been consistent in all the articles already in preparation for today, you're talking about the importance of relationships as a coach, and you just gave some great examples then of reflecting on the relationship and wanting to invest in it to improve it. And when I hear the players talk about the relationship they have with you they use words like bold philosophy, and honest it came up more than once. So I wanted to ask you, what are the experiences? And you maybe you've already touched on it a little bit with with some of the coaches you've met. But where did this focus on boldness and honesty come from? Is it as simple as just saying Wayne Clark? Or was there other experiences that made you think that's what a modern coach has to do in cricket today?
Anthony McGrath 13:06
Yeah, well, I mean, Kevin sharp was probably in terms of a bat in influence. Someone who really broke them Wilds down if you like he, he was actually working at Bradford Leeds University when I was playing at Yorkshire and we had a chance meeting, I was struggling in terms of my baton. And we went, I went down to see him at the University. He played for Yorkshire for 1520 years. And I decided I really needed to change things up, technically, and, and mentally. And I think we must have spent hours discussing really just how I felt before I even hit a ball with him, from self doubt to everything about myself as a person and the play. And that's when I used to come away from them sessions. almost been in a counselling session. Now that came to us, I felt real mousepad I just I was looking forward to playing again. I always keep going back to that as as a as a real you know, lightning bolt moment for me and and that's why I think relationships are so important. If I had just gone down to the university and hit ball straight away. I don't think about the impact, but just to offload to share, come away thinking someone cared actually about the questions that are asking and the expression on his face how we texted me afterwards saying that's just the investment he was putting in and he wasn't getting paid. By the way. This was just stuck with me in amazement actually, and I'm from there. I probably had the best years of my career I went on to play for England and Captain Yorkshire and, and be a lot more consistent and and that was a real moment. And I think doing that now coaching as a baton coach as a mentor as a head coach. I just think it's so important. And you don't always get it right. And you get on better with with other people and players. And that's just life. But I think if you have a real investment in them, and you want them to do well and show them that you want them to do well and care, I think that goes a long way.
Paul Barnett 15:16
I'd like to talk to you about Captain see in a minute, actually. But I wanted to stick with this whole idea of being bald for a minute, because I think, well, I don't think it comes from your decisions in getting the right players into the team. And then building this culture of togetherness tonight, the word togetherness comes up a lot in articles that that referenced the success that you've enjoyed it, Essex. So when it comes to building the right team, and making those tough decisions on who goes in and who doesn't. What are you looking for in the players?
Anthony McGrath 15:46
you obviously want in skill. character, for me is a big one. And characters a big word that can mean a lot of things. But I think when you're recruiting character is absolutely key. So as a, as a County Cricket coach, you only get one overseas, and there's not a huge transfer system in cricket. There's more moving between counties nowadays in the world, but there's still not a lot. So go into a club and bringing someone in is a huge financial decision. So you've got to get it right. And I think, you know, the character bringing into the group is huge. So I think PSA doll is one example it was my first signing, we wanted a bolo, we looked at what we were kind of missing. And now I know people who'd coached in people who played with him, and all the time kept coming up champion block not, we all know about his cricket, we can see that with our eyes, champion block, be great in the dressing room, it gets fully involved, you'll help the young bowlers grip person, etc, etc. So when then kind of characteristics keep coming up there, that makes your decision. That's fairly obvious. But I think the more good people you can get within your club within your system, then you've got a real good chance. Because good people normally embrace what's going on around them, they bring people together. And it's not just about the coach or coaches, it's about the player is the environment, you want the right players, you want, you know your senior guys to set a great example. And we were looking at we do have a lot of good senior guys. So anyone we bring in we we absolutely try and find out as much about the person rather than the player. And that is a huge deceit a huge thing in in recruiting. And then within our own squad, our academy our pathways. [PB5] Yes, you're mad, you're looking at the skill and the technical side and how good they're going to be. But we try and get the pathway guys, the academy guys into the pro squad training 12th man around the group just to see how they see how they interact, see how they get on with other people. Because the sooner you see that, yes, cricket is a it's a team sport. But it's an individualised spot as well. You're out there on your own on occasions. But they have to fit into the team ethos, the team emphasis. So the more you can see the younger players interact, that gives you a good idea of the character.
Paul Barnett 18:18
Actually, you mentioned the dressing room there. And in cricket, the dressing room environment is often referenced time and time again as being important. And I think that's because given the length of the game and the amount of time you're actually spent sitting around and talking and just interacting with players. So when it comes to disruption or disruptive influences in the dressing room, have you found any techniques that are better than others at managing, you know, when when conflict arises?
Anthony McGrath 18:48
reasoning, there's always conflict is happening all the time. You know, you mentioned them in in an English summer, we'll play a Friday, again, a training day travel play again. So the guys are in each other's pocket championship, their last six, six and a half hours, then you travel you eat together, you're in a hotel. So it is like a family and sometimes a dysfunctional family. You've got to get on. And of course, we don't always get on all the time, and that's fine. So there is going to be disruptions. And there's going to be players who, from time to time, test the cartridge patients, the players, patients and so on. So I think reasoning rarely. That's how I try and deal with it. If someone's been disruptive it might be first I'll get one of the players to have a word and then just get the guy in and say look what is going on. Let's chat through it. Is there anything else going on? players are human beings. I think sometimes we look at that spot and other spots I do growing up that players and superheroes they're not they're just human beings that have problems like all of us. And I think the more you address the problems, the better player, you're going to have. So sometimes someone not doing well on the cricket pitch, I'd say more often than not, is more to do with what's going on in the personal life, their natural technique. So just try and find out what's going on. And sometimes the guys don't want to tell you. But I think the more you try and reason and then play out the scenario, look, your behaviour is impacting the group. Obviously, if it goes too far, then we're going to have to do something more about it. But what can we do is, is there anything we don't know? And just really try and reason as much as you can. And sometimes it takes a long time, I'd rather you know, not Mac maybe decisions on we don't have fines, I don't like fines. I don't like finding people I don't like lateness and things like that can happen, you can be involved in a crash, and so on. So I would rather give people four or 5678 chances are really word and some people think that's wrong. Some people think that soft. But there does come a stage where there's a cut off. And, you know, as happened to Essex, where I'm sorry, but we've we've tried this over a year, two years, and it just, it's just not working for us. So you're gonna have to go. So I realise there is a cut off at some point. But more often than not, I think you've got to give it time to try and start out and understand the real reasons behind the problem.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 21:23
So in 2019, Anthony, you it's seven years, since he started working sporadically your share, but you take over his head coach at Essex, in in that first year, you do something that's never been done before the team when the 2020 the blast, and they also when the county championship. Now that was that year, there were some really big decisions around selection that you had to made not there was a quote that I really liked. And I'd like to read it to if I could. And you said once we got that settled, we got a little bit of confidence, you could see that we turned from a team that didn't look like we knew what we were doing to a team that were pretty strong. And so I'd like to ask you, what did that experience teach you about risk taking in innovation, to trust you got failing to trust the evidence you made that decision with?
Anthony McGrath 22:09
I think that year, we were going really well in the championship. But as you mentioned to 20, we started terribly, we're basically out of the competition and then put an amazing run together. I think, even from the beginning that the big decision was around Robbie Pereira, who was our best to 20 batsman, the stats, the analysis we've done, really pointed towards him. But in in the middle order Five, six, because he's our best boundary here. Eric could hit boundaries from the beginning, real good finisher. And he played over 300 games, he did seen every eventuality but we had him at the top of the order because he was our best player he wanted to bat they wanted to get the big runs, and a few other issues around selection. And I think at the start of the competition, I was clear we should do this and and a couple of coaches were but we we didn't because for the other reasons I said we thought certain players would, might be better in the the other positions. But looking back, again, the decision you're talking about we've done the we've done the homework, we've done the stats with we've looked at we've discussed it, and it was really about being brave and implementing it. The real reason we didn't do it is because we knew it was probably going to cause disruptions within the team. And we thought, do we really want that? You know, do we want it to unravel our season, but when we'd lost five or six games on the draw, he almost forced your hand because well, we're losing anyway, we need to make the decision. And it didn't go down well to start with. And that's not just gravity, but within the team. But once I think we explained the decision, once we we did win a couple of games, and we the guys could see it working. There was a change and there was a shift. And there were other players that were left out. But ultimately when you go in and I guess win and win the competition, it's justified. But even if we hadn't now looking back, they were still the right decision. Because you know, we've gone through that process. But I guess your your original question was, again, you make the decision earlier, as simple as that. You learn from that you've done your homework and things and and be brave and make the decision. Ultimately, you're the head coach and it results reflect on on yourself. So yeah, make the decision earlier is the answer.
Paul Barnett 24:37
Well, it paid off, didn't it? And I think it cemented this idea of making bold decisions for the benefit of the team. So congratulations on that. It's It was a very public decision, but it ended also in a very a one of a kind success. And then I've got another quote here, which I find really interesting. In this interview you've already talked about the importance of caring for players. But you've also talked about making bold decisions for the benefit of the team. And you saying this quote, and I'll just, I'll just read it to you again, you say, if the players understand that you care about them, and you have that empathy, they will try and do their best. Now in a Cricket Club, and this people listening, but probably don't realise, but in a Cricket Club, you can have 5060 players, I imagine. So if you're caring about every one of those players, you must end up with some kind of empathy fatigue. I wanted to ask you, how do you find the line between being too empathetic, but also being objective? As he just showed, in that last answer, you gave a get?
Anthony McGrath 25:40
Well, I think the the empathy side and Karen, I just see that as part of the drug job, I don't really feel any fatigue in terms of that way. I think explaining to the players right from the outset that we are a professional team, we're here to win. So we can only pick 11, we've got a pro squad of 21, we've got an academy of 10 1112. And everyone's gonna play the part. So and in any particular season, there's only oz in this dressing room that can affect the results affect what people write about as affect what people think about us. And you're the guys in the summer going to play all the time, some are not, we will pick the team based on winning that game, whether that's on farm on stats on how we feel on a gut feeling. So guys, you're going to be disappointed. But we are genuinely trying to do this for the for the best of the team. And then speaking to guys individually, you know, I think guys out of the team need probably a bit more than guys who were in the team and doing well. And I think just trying to be as honest, honest as possible, if a guy isn't coming up to expectations in training are how he's conducted himself. There's nothing wrong in telling him that that's one of the reasons why could be affecting selection or how he's playing in the second team reserves. And just trying to give them a, an inclination, how you're feeling. And sometimes you get it wrong. And I think, the empathy side, sometimes he's telling the player Look, I, I honestly think I should have picked you that game. I got that wrong. I'm sorry. But this is why I made the decision. And I think if the players see a genuine with that, and not just saying it for the sake of it, and that takes time you build them relationships, and you build them trust[PB7] . And I think, look, this spending time with the guys off the field socially, there's nothing wrong with that. I think some coaches can have a problem with the line of friends, and you're there to work. So I think I don't see it that way. Other people, if I enjoy spending time with them, that's fine. And whether they're in their team or out of their team. And I think that just just boils down to trust, but that there is a line in the sand. Of course, you've got to make decisions and tough decisions. But I'm pretty comfortable most of the time that I get to the decision the right way. And if I can explain that to the player, and they ultimately don't accept that, that that's not my problem. But most of the time, I think they do.
Paul Barnett 28:10
So you Captain Yorkshire twice, as you said earlier, and the role of the captain in cricket is really quite important because during play, they're the ones that are making decisions. In fact, the second time you were captain, you stood down because you felt that the decision making was so great on the field, it was affecting your own form. When people ask you now, what advice you have on choosing a captain, what do you tell them?
Anthony McGrath 28:36
I think timing in a person's career is key. I think that you rightly said the captain is huge in cricket the amount of time on the field, but off the field as well because it certainly assets a captain as a as a say in selection. So again, that they're giving messages to the players about why they're not in and why the why they are in and so on. So ultimately the captain that needs to still perform whether a batter or a bowler so that their main job is to perform, of course, but are they at a stage in their career where mentally they can deal with the rigours of the captain what we've just been talking about and still perform. So I think that's how we look to select captains. I mean, we've been very lucky at Essex with Ryan tenders. garter has been outstanding stepped down, Simon Harmer and Tom Wesley have all kept their farm and led from the front that way, but all very good people and I think at a stage of their career, where one they want to be a captain and two there. They want to share that kind of leadership. So I think that's that's really important where a player is that there's guys who want to capture new open to come up and said, I'd like to have a girl but you've got to make that call. Are they at the right stage? guys who are going for international recognition, for instance, might not be the right time for him. So I think Again, knowing the player, the timing and the career, and how they're going to be a good fit within the dressing room,
Paul Barnett 30:06
you strike me as the type of person that's very open to feedback. When you go and speak to your mentors, what are the kinds of things you're, you're asking them about?
Anthony McGrath 30:16
I think their experience, obviously, how they've dealt with this certain things, I think, I always like to delegate as well. Because I don't know all the answers. So I constantly ring people up around decisions, and just to get their take on it. So I think I'm always kind of reflecting that way. I think just reliving the decisions and how they've gone about it, but I think player feedback is is important. And I say that laughing because when I was a player, and a coach asked for feedback, he sometimes backfired. So, you know, just give me some honest feedback and why I don't like you as a coach, I wasn't expecting that. So you've got to be careful of when to ask for the player feedback. But I honestly do think it's important if it's done the right way. Because if you think you're going to be the cleverest in the room and get every decision, right, and, you know, you know, everything going on, you're wrongly mistaken.[PB8] So, some players, I've give me some interesting feedback on occasions, which, which is good, you've got to take that because you can't constantly give him players feedback. But I think from people like Darren loom, and Jason Gillespie, who I speak to now and again, are loads of different people, I'll just run through the decision trailer, and how I've got there, and ask for their input and how they've come up with similar things. That's kind of the reflection side.
Paul Barnett 31:43
It's interesting, and I don't know whether there's any connection, but there's, there's three Australians you've mentioned multiple times during this interview, Jason Gillespie, Darren Lehman and Wayne Clark. Do you think there's something cultural in the way those coaches approach cricket with their background? that have made them more effective in perhaps environments that you just described? where it was a little bit more stoic? rupees less verbal?
Anthony McGrath 32:11
Yeah, I guess, sir. I mean, in the period around the 90s, where Australia was so dominant, every overseas player seemed to come over was from Australia. And most of the guys who came across were aggressive, confident, you know, vocal verbal, and all three of them. Yeah, I mean, probably more Darren, compared to Jason and when but what I liked about the Australian psyche was just we're gonna have a crack, we don't have to get too complicated. We're going to be better than the new guys don't worry about this or that or this. You know, just watch the ball hit the ball. Very simple stuff, which that's just how these guys were, they believe the belief they had in in the cells and the team and their own system. That look at a lot of the English stuff and laugh I remember Darren Lehman turning up for his first game. And at that time, we couldn't wear jeans. We couldn't wear earrings. The jewellery sorry, our earrings. You couldn't we have to be clean shaven. Yeah, to wear a collared shirt, Darren turned up in ripped jeans and Nike earring, a girl a beard with a McDonald's. And our coach nearly fell off his chair. And inwardly I'm like, this is great, because we're not allowed to do that. And it's like, I'm here to play cricket match. I'm not here to dress, I'll do this. And, and it was like, wow, this is unbelievable. Now, that might sound strange to a lot of people. But that was, that was just Darren saying, Look. And then he left him out of the first game. Forgot he was 12. Man, does it sit tight, it's not played. And it's not done in that and he's not used to English conditions. He was running the drinks on the next map to play smash 250. And you know, the rest is history. But it was just completely like an alien London for me, just how we went about stuff. So that was the mentality or whatever you want to say that every time they were in our Jason and Darren came over? Yes, there were all kinds of different but they all had that. Be bold, be brave, go and get it Don't think about what might or might not happen, just go and be positive and, and that was great. And that was a that was an influence. So again, that really resonated with me and stuck with me and that's why reverting them back to coaches. I always interested out of the tech in that play in philosophy into their coaching, particularly Darren and Jason. But, yeah, the stereotypical English to the Australian at that time of my experience was completely different.
Paul Barnett 34:50
So I wanted to ask you about producing homegrown talent because you talk about it a lot, and it's very important for you and you advocate for it very strongly. Can you tell us why this is so important to you?
Anthony McGrath 35:03
I think you get a loyalty from from the local players. I think the Cricket Club ethics is banging this city centre in the town. So local community I think you get a consistency you get you know boys and girls can see a pathway into professional club. I think building a team spirit in a culture is easier if you have the guys coming through from a young age. And I think locally then people get behind it you know families are invested. Cricket clubs are invested schools are invested. And I think players more often than not don't want to leave you know the want to be part of it. We've seen it just yesterday downloads from Essex mechanised England Derby Chingford is Cricket Club was interviewed in school, his father, the local, everyone in the area is that's Essex Cricket Club. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with coming from Lancashire or Yorkshire or, or Australia. But if the car people come from Essex, there's a real identity there, and a togetherness. And I think that's how you build the environment and culture and our young players coming through, can see that and I got live evidence of that, you know, guys from the academy are now we're in St. Jude's, I used to watch Sam cook, or Alistair cook, come through, and I've got a picture at home, giving them a trophy, and so on and so on. And they're dying to be part of it. And I think it's so important. And you talk about team spirits and cultures, if, again, in my opinion, you're from that area, you grew up with people, you're watching them, you clear with them at your local Cricket Club, you want to be part of it, and you can see a fun game and I live in. So I think we've gotten out 16 out of 21 pros have come through the Essex area, which is a huge feather in the cap not not for what Yes, I'm very proud of that. But the work that goes in, in the pathways, the Academy, the mums and dads, you know, that come down and watch the first day, it is great. It is really like a family. A family Club, which in this day and age is tough with all, you know, with everything going on. And of course that we we want overseas players I mentioned the saddle and we've had Neil Wagner and Muhammad Amir, it's great to get that mix. But I think if the car come from the local area, it makes it so special. And that might sound a little bit cringy to people who are a little bit, you know, lipstick or whatever. But I for me, it's really important. And I think me, you can't fake a a team spirit or an environment it has to be moulded together. And I think that goes along with the local place to build in that.
Paul Barnett 37:54
You also care by loyalty. And it sounds like you're manufacturing that loyalty at the grassroots so that it grows into the team to very powerful thing. Anthony, if I could just finish with one question. And you're still so young as a coach. So I'm sort of hesitating to ask it. But I will anyway, many, many years ahead of you as a coach, and when you're only you're only eight years in already some great success. But what do you think the legacy is you've left so far?
Anthony McGrath 38:23
I don't know, to be honest, I think legacy to me, it's probably 2030 years, or something like that. I don't think I've left a legacy at the moment. I really don't I just feel just a part of it. I mean, it's sometimes I get a little bit embarrassed. But there's so many other parts to making this successful. We've got a lot of other coaches who don't get mentioned, a lot of people behind the scenes, the Cricut guys who make make all this happen, I spot psychologists and so on. So I just feel as though I'm part of that. I don't feel I'm particularly the one leaving the legacy. I might feel different in in many years, maybe. But at the moment, I just, as you mentioned, I feel very young as a coach. I don't feel as though I've absolutely crapped out on a couple of trophies and everything. So still very much developing and learning. But in terms of a legacy, no, I don't think I could answer that at the moment. I just feel like a big part of the club I'm in at the moment.
Paul Barnett 39:24
Can I challenge you?
39:25
Yeah, sure.
Paul Barnett 39:27
I think there's something in there around openness. It comes through a lot in your answers, and also the way the players talk. I mean, whether you said something very powerful early on, about admitting failures to players. That's, I think that's very common. And I think that linked with your ability to confront issues head on in the right manner, fuels this sort of bold approach that the team displaying so for what it's worth, outsider looking in, I think there's something there. and openness and how it transfers into a boldness in the way the team carry themselves and perform. But on whether I'm totally off track. That's what comes through.
Anthony McGrath 40:10
No, thank you. I mean, it's, yeah, I do find it tough to, I guess to chat about myself, sometimes in that way about what you're doing or what you're leaving, I guess I look upon it a bit differently. Like we were all in this together, and we're all part of it sort of thing. So that's, yeah, probably where the answer comes from. Maybe that makes any sense? No, it does.
Paul Barnett 40:35
But as you said earlier on, the coach sets the tone. And you talked about some of those early experiences you had with people that were very technical and very traditional. And I think finding the right way to do change in an environment like cricket, which is so hundreds of years old, and is governed by rules, both written and unwritten. And then the unwritten rule, try explaining the unwritten rules to someone who doesn't understand the sport, it's a little difficult, as we had john price, actually the USA coach, and she was talking about explaining sportsmanship to people that are trying to just reinterpret the rules. And I think it's difficult, but I think there's something there around redefining the way people approach training, participation in the club and performance on the field. But I could be wrong.
Anthony McGrath 41:20
No, no, I mean, traditions are there and cricket in particular, such a notational spot, as you said, in the rules, and yeah, as you said, try explaining to the people who've never seen cricket and and then there's so many questions, that goes on and on and on. But yeah, look, I mean, I think the great thing about sport or life in general, people see it differently. There's no right or wrong way to go about it. I think you've just got to be true in what you do believe in what you do. Yes, be flexible, but try and do it kinda your work.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 41:54
Anthony McGraw, thank you so much for your time today. It's been great chatting with you in the middle of a Prague winter. It's great to talk a little bit about the summer sport.
Anthony McGrath 42:06
Thanks, Paul.