Ep39_LisaFallon_Edit1
Wed, 3/24 4:08PM • 39:00
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, people, players, learn, environment, opportunity, different environments, licence, experience, question, starting, working, pressure, teams, bit, applying, lisa, football, career, game
SPEAKERS
Lisa Fallon, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Lisa Fallon Good afternoon, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast. How are you? I'm going well, it's the end of the day. It's snowing here. But it is quite lovely outside. Where are you in the world? And what have you been doing today?
I'm in Dublin. And we we've had a little bit of snow the last couple of days. But today is a little bit milder. So it's a bit wet out, but it's bright at the moment. So we'll take that.
Well, thank you for carving a little bit of your time out of your schedule to talk to us because of course, you've been in the news the last couple of days, because you've got a new job at Galway FC. So I want to start by saying congratulations for landing that role.
Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.
Before we get into go away, and all things in the season ahead. I wouldn't mind starting actually wanting the clock back. Because although you've had a short career as a head coach, you've actually had a long apprenticeship and you've had exposure to some wonderful people I was in researching for today I saw Michael and Neil Of course, there's john Cofield, who you're working with again now there's Jim Gavin. And of course you had time with with Mr. Hayes to Chelsea. What is it you think these great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Lisa Fallon 01:07
I think one of the most striking things is how they deal with people. I think when you are a head coach or a manager, I think it's really important how how you deal with people and how you interact with people, because you're consistently trying to get the best out of people. So you have to create an environment where everybody can excel and can feel secure, and have that opportunity to feel vulnerable in order to stretch without being overexposed. [PB1] And so for me, one of the biggest things is that work ethic, attention to detail, consistency, but also how you deal with with your people, I think, is one of the most important things that I've encountered. Because I suppose from my own perspective, in my own career development, it's been how those coaches have impacted on my journey that's really made the impact so much. It's it's like, how much of an impact or somebody have on you? And what kind of an impact Do they have on you? And what are your learnings? And how does that develop you and it's like, I wouldn't be where I am today, without the impact of and the development and the the energy of the of the all the people that I've had that opportunity to work with over the years. And that's why I understand as a coach, the impact that they all had on my life and my career path. And they've already changed it because I would have gone in a in a direction that I believed was probably the only way I could work in professional football. But through the opportunities that they gave me and how they developed me and the challenges that they set for me, they've changed my career path. And now I'm actually now I'm in the space where I am doing exactly what I wanted to do when I was a kid, even though I didn't think that would be possible. And that is completely down to the impact that those coaches had on my career development. And I think as a coach, you can never underestimate the impact that you can have on a person's life, when they're with you. And obviously on when they move on to different environments, that what are the learnings that they take into that environment.[PB2] And I think as a coach, you should never underestimate that.
It's great that you talk about the impact that these people have had on you. But of course, you did go out there and impress them with your very good question asking and analysis of the game, which I'm going to ask you about a little later on, if I could, because I'd really like to start by picking up on that theme of career development, which you talked about a minute ago. And in I've read that you're very focused on learning and developing yourself. And you've I've actually read that you've said your objective each day, is to make sure you've gone to bed at night, knowing that you've learned something. And I wanted to ask if you could share just one thing that you've learned in the last week.
Yeah, I do. I have certainly got that approach to learning. I think every person that you meet is an opportunity to learn from and every environment that you're in. And I think the day I think I know everything is today I need to step away. Because what I've learned is that every environment that I've been in, I've learned and even I remember it's funny I remember when I did my DEA licence, my UEFA B licence. And I came away from that thinking it was I found it's such an extraordinary learning experience that I came away from that goal. Oh my god, like what else is there to possibly know about football and about tactics and about how to press and cover and all that and I was so encapsulated by the learning that I have been exposed to and the new knowledge and It just gave me a much deeper insight into the game. And at that point, I remember thinking, what else could there possibly be. And there was probably a little bit about me as well as a young naive coach that I was thinking, Jesus, I know it all or not that I know it all. But I know a series about that. But it's only through when you go through that, and then you take your year and then you you're applying those principles and those concepts that what you learn in the coursework is very textbook, it's these are the principles, these are the theories. But in practice, you might have this great session set out and then you're going to play out from the back and it's going to be fabulous, and then your physio tells you 20 minutes before the session, sorry, the centre backs not going to be in today, he's out and your girl. Okay, so what you have to learn then is to adapt. That's the learning that for me is the real learning when you're interacting with people. And when you're coaching people who have different learning styles. And when you're, it's all that piece about how do you convert the theory into practice, and every day, it's going to be different, because every time you put on a session, depending on who's in the session, and the mood and the where you are in the season, that session is going to look different, and it looks different in in different environments with different players. [PB3] So then it was during the course of finishing the BM applying the theory is such that I learned, gosh, there's a whole lot more to this. And then you go and do your Ray. And like that's just another whole universe of opportunity and to learn. And then I also found that you're learning all the theory and the stuff that you're doing on the pitch and in the classroom and in the group discussions. But actually, in the evening, with all the people that you're on the course with and the diversity across the experiences, that that was another whole opportunity. It was a pit of knowledge and experience that you would never get access to in in other streams of life. So I just found that if you were open, there was opportunities to listen and learn from so many different people in so many different ways. And, and I always just felt that I felt, you know that by listening to people and learn from their experiences that there's no no one has all the answers. It's never like that. So it's how much can you learn? And how much knowledge can you have so that when you have to make decisions, particularly under pressure, can you have a good knowledge base there to draw on so that you try to make the decisions that you make good as good as possible? [PB4] that's probably how I became that way. Although I'm probably a person who's always curious. And it just by my nature, I like to just explore things and look at things through different lenses. And like you can become ingrained in looking something in a certain way for over a long period of time. And can you take a step back and come at it from a different angle and see it in a different way? And that in itself can be quite enlightening, too. So yeah, like it's just about being open, I think and having that desire to get better all the time. Because the one thing about elite sport is that you know that everything you did last year is irrelevant for next year. Because in high performance sport, the times never get slower, through new records are always faster, quicker. It's always about improvements, and I just feel as a coach, that's something I have to commit to doing as well.[PB5]
Paul Barnett 08:35
Can I ask you that a little bit about decision making under pressure and learning and development. And I'd like to frame it actually, in your experience first time around as a head coach, because you you famously started at lakelands in 2013. And then after that you go to cork, and you work your way up from opposition scouting, head of football analysis, ultimately to firsthand coach, which is pretty impressive career journey in itself. But what I'd like to ask you is in your first five years, with the team at cork, what did you learn about yourself as a leader that you're applying today?
Lisa Fallon 09:11
I learned what I didn't know. Because I think it's a little bit like the UEFA B licence scenario that you don't know what you don't know, until you know what you didn't know. And it's, it's it's kind of that chicken and an egg scenario that when I got into that environment, I knew I knew enough to be good at analysis. But I didn't have the experience to coach players at that level. So I needed to get the experience. And I needed to learn and I needed to become good at it. So I suppose I always had that respect for the environment that I was in and where I was in relation to my own personal experience. And because you think about a player to say a former player has a great career. They play in lots of different leagues and competitions, maybe European competitions, maybe international level. And they are putting all that stuff into their experience treasure chest as they go. And then when they become a coach or a manager, they have all of that experience to draw on as a female, because there just weren't those types of opportunities as a player, I didn't have that experience. So I had to get it, I had to earn it, I had to earn my stripes. So by being an analyst, an opposition analyst, I was getting to watch games I was getting to look at them. tactically, technically, I was looking at players within the systems, I was in environments. So I was watching how the information was being applied, how it was transferring to the pitch, what were the problems, what worked. And then as my repertoire grew, you're starting to do that stuff yourself, you're coaching the players, one to one, you're doing a bit on the pitch as well, you're presented in the team meetings, and all of a sudden, you're now starting to glean all that experience and bring it yourself. So when I was with Cork City, we were challenging for the league eventually went on. And one is we were also in the Europa League. So I was getting to travel to watch opposition teams, analyse them, and then come up with strategies as to how we could notify them or expose them. So then you're starting to move into a different sphere, and over time and years. And also in tandem with that, then I had, I was working with the the Northern Ireland senior men's team, and get an experience in that environment as well. So it was that consistent exposure to those environments, and then the gradual building of my experience that it allowed me and facilitated me to make the transition from being an analyst into being a coach, because then I had been in all those environments, I had all those experiences, I was in the dressing rooms and and I also learned about the game. So so for me that journey, I couldn't take any shortcuts, I fell in tandem with that, then I was coaching men's teams in non league in Ireland, in addition to the analysis role. So I was was during the day, that was my day job at nighttime, I was coaching men's teams, who would have been at x League of Ireland standard. So they players that were probably playing professionally in Ireland and when they retire, or when if they take go different routes in their career, that they take on a different job, and then they decide they can only play part time, then there were the teams, I was coaching. And for me that experience getting that groundwork done in tandem with the other experience was allowing me to start applying the knowledge from the I suppose the higher levels to my coaching out still a reasonably good level. And that was how then I gradually started working on that. And then then I went into the GAA, which was Gaelic football. So that was really good, because it allowed me to look at a different type of work in a different high performing environment and see things potentially through a different lens. So to challenge the nuances that might be specific to soccer, or is there a different way of applying principles or do in another sport you they do things in a different way? And it just gave me like I said, another opportunity to examine what I thought and to examine what I thought I knew. And if I knew it, could I change it? Or well, could it be better? Could it be enhanced? Were there different ways of doing things? So I just found that that like, those are different environments were always kind of they just made you see things through a slightly different lens. And I enjoyed that to challenge my own thoughts as well to try and see how how solid they were. And it also helped me to nail down my own philosophies. And because you're testing them in different environments, so you have the concept that you kind of glean from being on your courses and being exposed to new theories and new levels of the game. How do I apply those? What happened? What do I do when they go wrong? What bits definitely work, and I'm gonna keep those How can I modify those and make them better? And that's constantly kind of been my my mantra through all the different layers of my career development is how can I consistently bring all of it and change it and challenge it and and try to improve it.
Paul Barnett 14:43
Some great experiences there. Jim Gavin and the Dublin team that famously won all those premierships. It's just fantastic. But what I'd like to ask you about actually you just touched on it is your philosophy. And I've got this great quote, and I'd like to read it to you if I can, when you're describing your coaching philosophy Use a quote, to facilitate my players to reach their own potential through Guided Discovery, promoting gain intelligence, and to get my players to play with their brains, as well as their feet. And I thought that was such a nice way of encapsulating what you're all about as a coach, I'd like to ask you, was there an experience or a moment or a series of events that helped you shed shape this philosophy?
Lisa Fallon 15:24
Yeah, I think, I think there's been loads, I think working, as I said, being exposed in different environments, not just necessarily, through my football career, and maybe through other roles that I had either in tandem with football roles, or prior to my coaching, being able to go full time and coaching. I've worked in different environments where they were really empowering, where people could make decisions, and be trusted, and be accountable. And I've been in environments where it was very prescriptive, and it was very set. And that was not really any room for creativity. And I personally found that being in an environment where you could be creative, where you could apply things suited me better. So what I learned about that was, is that it My style is a more creative and decision making as opposed to prescriptive. And prescriptive leadership works really well in certain environments, and it's needed in certain environments. And sometimes you have to apply that in your own environment. But, but certainly from from my natural style, what it did was it taught me to understand that when players are on the pitch, it's their decisions, they have to be able to make the decisions, so I can't make the decisions for them, nor should i. So my philosophy is that to try and create environments where they make the decisions for themselves and believe in the decisions, and then if the decision isn't the right one, can they learn from that, that the next time they have to make a decision, that it's a better decision. [PB6] And that for me is kind of in line with my philosophy, because I think it resonates with a lot of how I've developed as a coach, it's a genuine replication of my own learning, style, and, and kind of the, where I felt that that type of coaching enhanced my development, that's what I feel is comes most naturally to me.
Paul Barnett 17:22
So you have this philosophy that you've developed now and your careers building, and you're gaining experience, and you've worked towards your a licence and, and this experience leads you to Chelsea, in 2019, you're the game and tactical strategy coach. And then that team, of course, goes on to win the 2020 women's Super League Championship and the Continental League Cup, two cups in a year. At one stage, you're the only Republic of Ireland born head coach working in the top two divisions of either men or women's football, which I find quite in England, which I find quite astounding. But how did you just getting back to this idea of leadership? How did you have to evolve as a leader when you're over in Chelsea, and it's a bigger environment with more media and more scrutiny?
Lisa Fallon 18:06
Well, I think like I had done my pro licence prior to going so I finished my pro licence I think in 2018. And literally, three weeks later, I started then on the league managers associations Diploma in football management, so I probably would normally have had a bit longer between them, but it just turned out to be that way. So again, for me, I suppose the biggest learning I had was I had to learn about myself, I had to learn about my values. And so I had to learn about my strengths and my weaknesses and have an understand myself first, and how do I make the personal improvements before I can tackle other things and and bring that into the coaching mix, [PB7] but like, I think in that vironment, you're working with people who are exceptional at what they do, more people, so many, many more people in terms of the backroom staff and incredible facilities resources. So it was just a different, it was a different type of environment. Whereas i'd often come from the other environments that work in before were a bit smaller. So you were a little bit more empowered to multitask as as sort of stuff because there was different whereas in that role, it was much more specialist and because there were so many people so again, it was really interesting. And what you have to do then is your it's bigger teams, not just the players but also staff that you're working with. So yeah, there was it was a great learning environment and, and obviously then you're working under a different head coach who has different philosophies and and different ideas. And again, that's brilliant because that challenges you again, it challenges you to think what you think you know, or what you how do you change it because you're you're again working with someone who sees things in a slightly different way, which is great, because that's where you, you start to see everything from, it's a bit more 360 in terms of an experience or in a way of looking at things. So, yeah, I listened, it was a brilliant environment. And also in that environment, I was working with female players, which was the first time for me and over a decade to be working with female players. So again, the nuances between working with female players and male players, the difference in terms of the physical development, the physical demands, there's so many different nuances. And again, there were things there that had developed in the women's game that I hadn't considered because I never had to because I was working with men. So again, massive learning curve, and again, it changes the lens through which you see things again, which is always really powerful.
Paul Barnett 20:48
I think. You mentioned values, then, Lisa, what are your core values? As a coach?
Lisa Fallon 20:54
I think it's really just to be myself, and to be to be positive. And to be honest, because I think it's a tough, it's a difficult industry. And I think it's really important to understand who for me to understand who I am, what my own strengths and weaknesses are? And how do I compensate for those and push my strengths and stuff? Yeah, I think it's really my leadership style is to be authentic, like just to be who I am. And to trust in the experiences that I have, and to have confidence in the things that I've learned and my ability to apply all those learnings and all those experiences. And to help, like I said, to help the people that I'm working with, be that staff or people in the back room in the club or, and the players, how do I help to help them to realise their potential and push them to be as good as they can be? Because really, as a coach, you're a facilitator, you're trying to facilitate them to push on.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 22:00
So you don't, I'm going to ask this next question. And I'm, I'm not sure what the answer I'll get, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. Because you strike me as someone who's very confident, keeps placing themselves in new environments where they they will there will be challenged technically. And through their soft skills were as well their leadership skills. So I'm not sure whether you have a voice that is an inner critic. But if if you do, what advice would you have for others on managing that voice? Which can often stop you from performing at your best?
Lisa Fallon 22:34
It definitely does. And I'm my own biggest critic, I always tried to drive myself, where can I improve? I always try to reflect what went well, what didn't go, Well, what can I improve? Because for every failing or every mistake, you make there the opportunities for growth, if you look at yourself, and just be a you know, go Oh, sure. Like that was ground. That was great. That was really good. And if you turn a blind eye to the things that were quite right, or the things that you could have done better, or the the knowledge gaps, what happens there? Do I need to know something else? Why didn't that work? Okay, who would know that? Who could I ask to find out another way and stuff like that? So I always challenge when I self reflect, I always try to challenge my performance. And listen, you don't get everything, right. And if you do, well, then you've struggled because you're the you're the coach, then that has the magic formula that wins every game, and no one has done that before. So it's it's always high performance really is about achieving higher and improving and pursuit of excellence. So what excellence looks like in 2021, or 2015 looks different. In 2020 to 2023, it's always going to look different, it's it's never really going to be the same. And if it looks the same, then you're not then for me, I'm not progressing. So in terms of my inner critic, I, I am self critical. I do that. And I but I'm also I always try to put context on critiquing. So I always try to qualified so that I don't overthink, I used to overthink a lot. And that can inhibit because then you start to think of the what ifs What if you stop being in the present, which is where you need to be you start thinking about things that may or may not happen, and you're like, it takes your focus away from where you need to be.[PB9] So what I always think about is, when I self reflect what went well, what didn't go, Well, where's the opportunity to grow? Where's the opportunity to improve, identify US market qualifiers and put context on it? Could I have known? Could I have done better? Did I have the knowledge to make a better decision? And if you did, well, then you you mark it as a mistake and you take that opportunity To the next time in your training session, you won't do that, because you should have known it was this way or whatever, then the validity of it. So when I say context about the criticism, like instead of, because I used to be very self critical in terms of, I would look at all the stuff I got wrong instead of what I got, right? And that can be human nature, too. So, how do you achieve the balance? What was good? Where are my opportunities for growth? And then, can you control it? So, could I control the x happened in the session that the wind was blowing gales and the footballs kept rolling, so we couldn't practice? Whatever it was the free kicks? Can you control that? No, you can't. So forgive yourself that your Listen, pocket move on. I can't control that. But if it's something in a session, or dealing with a player or something or you go, I probably could have got that a bit better. I could have probably could have done something a bit more there or kind of control that can I improve that the next time? Yes, I can. Well, then there's the opportunity for growth. I can't do anything about the wind. Because if the wind is like that again, tomorrow, chances are I'm not going to be able to stop that either. So I always feel it's just about trying to put context on things and allowing myself to make mistakes. Because I think that they're part of it. We all make mistakes. And we all get things wrong from time to time. But like I said, that's part of the journey. You hear all the time about players to say, Yes, I've scored that many. But these are the amount I didn't. And I hate using the word failing, because it's not a failure. It's just part of the journey. But for all the things that don't go right there the things that make that bring you to the point of getting it right. So you might have, you might try something five or six times and apply different solutions. But if you keep applying different solutions and trying to find the right answer, you will get there eventually, as long as you don't give up. And that that for me is why it's important that if you don't get it right the first time you go, perfect. That's been a brilliant learning opportunity. Now, what can I take from that experience for the next time that I go in?
Paul Barnett 27:22
Fantastic answer. Lisa, thank you very much. I'm glad I asked that. That question. I want to ask about your interaction with leaders because your your route into coaching is quite different. It's through the quality of your questions when you were a sports reporter. I understand that. It was Michael Neal, I think called john Caulfield, or one of them where they you asked a question, and they came to see you after the the interview and said, Oh, could you just explain a little bit more? The context for your question. And of course, the same thing happened with Jim Gavin, I'd like to ask you what this has taught you about the need to be prepared and organised when it comes to engaging with leaders.
Lisa Fallon 28:04
I think being prepared is basic, it's a basic requirement of if you're going to go into a situation, the very, very least you can do is be prepared for it. I think that's I don't think there's anything exceptional about that. I think that's just standard, you wouldn't go into an exam without having studied for it. So I think if you're going to go into a situation that you should at least have your homework done, and have your research done. I think for me questions are opportunities to learn or are an opportunity for an opportunity. So if you ask a question, the answer can be yes. And it can be no, but generally, it's a 5050. So you can say, Oh, god, no, I'm not going to ask that. Because they probably know. But there's a chance it'll be a yes. And you're not going to know to ask and if it's a no. Then again, it comes back to that right. What could I do next time to get turned that into a? Yes. Did I do enough? Did I have enough preparation done? Was I ready? And I think that's a but the other thing is to qualify the question, I would always think I would always question the question before I ask it like so. Like, is the question fair? Is the question valid? So I always just try to question the question, is it coming from a good place? Am I does it come from knowledge? Or am I guessing or speculating or whatever? So that was always the thing that I learned was that by asking a question, you'll get an answer. If you don't ask the question, you will never know the answer. An opportunity missed even if it's not the answer you wanted. That in itself can be an opportunity for growth.
Paul Barnett 29:50
I was preparing today when I came across the story of how you got into coaching through your question asking I was nervous about the quality of my questions today. So I look for Do feedback later on on how I've gone. Lisa, can I can I talk about pressure for a minute because you've been involved with teams that Northern Ireland team, which got to the last 16 of the euros. You've also worked in teams that have been in the battle for relegation, and others like the Dublin GAA that have one league and cup doubles. And same with same with Chelsea. But what I wanted to zero in on was, what have you learned through this process in handling pressure?
Lisa Fallon 30:29
A lot? A lot, an awful lot. And I think there's probably still room for growth. Yeah, no, I think pressure is probably what makes you thrive. And that's probably where you find out the most about yourself is when you're under pressure. When you're in your comfort zone, you're never stretched. So the chances of you making mistakes, or the chances of you getting things wrong when you're in your comfort zone and when you're in flow, or less. So I think for me, if you want to grow, you've got to put yourself under pressure, you've got to be in those pressurised situations, because that's where you test what you know, that's where is what I know enough is what I know, good enough? Do I need to learn more in those pressurised situations? What do you learn from them? So again, I think there's good pressure and there's bad pressure, I think you have to manage both, I think a certain amount of pressure is always important. [PB10] Like I said, that's where you test yourself in extreme pressure, which sometimes comes as part of the role as well, then you probably learn a lot about your group. And that's, and really, when you're in extreme pressure, that's where you really revert to the fundamentals of what you know. And that's, that's when your experience matters is when you're under extreme pressure. And that's why I think the longevity of the learning, that's when that stuff stands to you. Because that's when in professional sport, people's jobs can be on the line careers. It's their big moments, their career, potentially career defining moments. And that's what I've learned from being in those situations is that's when you call on your experience and the experience of the group. And that's when you know where you are. That is when you know where you are.
Paul Barnett 32:21
So I attended a webinar recently where you were one of the guest presenters. And I was fascinated to hear your views on taking penalty kicks. Could you explain that all for the audience and also how you've applied the learning to the teams that you've coached?
Lisa Fallon 32:38
Yeah, I think really, that was specific to the group we were in because we had had a number of penalties and we just, we didn't convert them. They weren't wide and hit cross bars and stuff. So I felt there was an opportunity for us to improve a margin there by by just practising the men but through practice, we change mindsets. And then through mindset change, we increased confidence. And then when it came to pressurise situation, which ultimately it ended up being the penalty shootout for Cork City in the 2017 FA Cup Final for the first doble in the club's history, it came down to a penalty shootout. And so we felt I suppose, collectively that the work we had done for the previous 18 months, helped on that occasion, because the players were confident going down to take the penalties.[PB11] So whether it did make a difference or not, we'll never know because you never do know you can never say that for certain was was what made the difference, because there's so many different elements that have to come together to create a complete performance. But really, it was from missing them. And people not really wanting to take them to changing the mindset to when we got to penalty shootout, people were going, I'm taking one, this is what I'm doing. And I feel confident about it. That was the shift that we as a result of the coaching, then it was down to the players to go down and literally executed under the pressure. Because they were the ones under the pressure then not us as coaches. They were the ones so they went and executed and in fairness to the five of them, they scored out five, goalkeeper saved one. And the rest is history as they say
Paul Barnett 34:22
the rest is history. I want to ask you, though about mindsets, because they're notoriously hard to change. So what tips Have you got on changing mindset
Lisa Fallon 34:33
can only change your mindset if you're open to changing your mindset? If you've a fixed mindset, it's very difficult to change that. So it really has to start with the person they have to be open to changing or open to seeing a different way. So really, I think mindsets are a key component because sometimes you need to have moments where you can you can be both you you have to be open To change, if it's positive change, not change for changes sake. But there are also times where you have to be a fixed mindset and go, No, this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing this[PB12] . So you have to know when to help, which because you do need both. And you need to have that capacity to flip between one and the other. Because to be consistent, if you keep changing all the time, then you have no consistency. So you do need to have a bit of both. For growth, you need to be open. And then to kind of stay in the zone and practices and learn it and stick with those and get the stuff right and get the stuff wrong. I think you have to be in a slightly fixed mindset, I've got to stay with this now till I get this right or to work it out. And then you can open the mindset for different things. So you need both. And I think it's just about having that capacity to to know when is the right time to use? Which one?
Paul Barnett 35:58
Please, sir, if I could wind the clock back, which is not possible. And if I could take you back and introduce you to that 14 year old girl who was starting out as a coach all those years ago, what would you say to her now,
Lisa Fallon 36:12
I would tell her not to fear things not to fear failure, because it holds you back to embrace it as an opportunity for growth. Now, I just think that's probably the biggest one, I think fear can slow you down, or it can inhibit people to an extent where they never go for what they really want to go after it. So I think you have to. And the other thing would be, I suppose, like, just always make sure you've got really good people around you. Because if you have that safety net of a good group around you and a good support structure, then it enables you to go for things. Because you have them, you have that as your fallback, you have that as your safety net, and surround yourself with really good people, people who tell you you can not people who tell you you can't, to try not to let to respect fear and to respect the different levels and the environments that you're in. But not to fear, progress, and to put yourself out of your comfort zone. So that you can grow.[PB13]
Paul Barnett 37:14
Lisa, I'd like to finish with one last question. And I'd like to frame it with another few quotes if I could, because I think it's a pretty special one. And you say I want my kids to have a world where it doesn't matter whether you're a female or a male, you can get to where you want to be by working hard and being passionately true to yourself. And this prompts me to ask, what's the legacy you want to leave as a coach in the distance distant future when you eventually retire?
Lisa Fallon 37:45
Just that I got to be the best that I could be. Regardless, that's that's all it's just my biggest ambition really is for my kids to grow up in a world where there is equal opportunity and that you're not denied opportunity, just because of who you are, or because you don't fish the norm. And I think because if we live in a world like that, we're probably denying yourself a treasure chest of potential.[PB14] And really what I hope is that, for me, it's not about being the first or anything like that. It's not about that at all. But for every instance where I have been the first I really think I want to make sure that I'm not the last and that's probably the biggest piece.
Paul Barnett 38:41
I think a treasure chest of potential is a wonderful way to enter this interview. Thank you so much, Lisa, I know you're starting a new role and everyone is competing for your time but I so appreciate your time today and I'm looking forward to sharing your story with a with a broader audience.
38:57
Okay, thank you.