Ep43_TanyaOxtoby_Edit1

Thu, 4/22 8:50AM • 37:03

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

players, coach, tanya, people, important, bit, season, play, helped, thinking, bristol, push, understand, football, club, trust, question, group, point, environment

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Tanya Oxtoby

Paul Barnett 00:00

Tanya ox to be good morning and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.

00:03

Morning. Thanks for having me.

Paul Barnett 00:06

Thanks for joining us, you heavily pregnant, so we're very happy to get some of your time before you're off to the hospital.

Tanya Oxtoby 00:12

Yeah, hopefully nothing happens in the next, you know, 40 minutes or so we'll see what happens.

Paul Barnett 00:17

So a really simple question to kick off. Where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far today?

Tanya Oxtoby 00:22

Yeah, in Bristol, breezy Bristol today, actually, the weather's not great. Yeah, in Bristol in the UK haven't done too much this morning, trying to take it easy, heavily is probably the correct word pregnant. And off to the Conti Cup final tomorrow. So just trying to relax because tomorrow will be quite a sort of big day, I suppose in in the sense that I haven't really been out the house for a couple of weeks. So it'll be interesting to be around people again.

Paul Barnett 00:48

Well, you're the first pregnant coach we have interviewed. So this should be interesting for both. Tanya, you've had, you've had a great career, you're still so young. And we'll get into the the scope of your career as we go along. But you've already had exposure to some pretty good coaches. There's Lee Johnson. And there's Jamie harnois, two of the key ones I could find online through researching it, there's many others. But what is it you think the great coaches do differently?

Tanya Oxtoby 01:15

I[P1] think there's a couple of things. I think, when you think about really good coaches, they they I think personally put people first i think that's that's massive. And when we say that they still have clear boundaries, and they've got a clear vision about what they want for the group. But the individuals within that group, they're able to manage and get the best out of and help them to reach their potential because players are all very individual and very different. And it's really important, I think that you treat them as such, especially in senior football, you just never know what is going on behind the scenes. And the best coaches are able to manage their players, but keep a clear vision about you know, and boundaries within the group and what they're trying to achieve. And I think the second sort of thing is about the level of detail, whether that's in the in the planning, whether that's in the delivery, the level of detail, and the ability to communicate that detail, not only to the players, but to your staff so that your staff can help reinforce those messages.[P2] I think they're probably the two key things that I've noticed in terms of, in particular with Lee Johnson, he his level of detail is just second to none. And anytime he gets asked a question, he's able to answer it, because he's very clear about what it is that he's going after. And that obviously helps the staff and obviously, in terms of players.

Paul Barnett 02:33

Tony, you are a qualified sports psychologist, knowing what you know, now, as the elite coach in the UK? Yeah. What do you wish they would have taught you at university?

Tanya Oxtoby 02:46

I think one of the things that for me, one of the key things that I because I, a lot of sports sites actually asked this question about how can we make things really relevant? How can we make? How can we really get buy in from coaches around what we do? And my answer is always the same, like make it tangible, make it something that is coaches able to understand and something a concept that they can then take into their environment and apply. I think, for me, that's probably the key thing. And I look back now and to be honest, I was no, I'm not the greatest in terms of academia, I'm not, I'm not the most intelligent, but I always just was able to think about how it was relevant to a situation and then try and learn it that way. I'd like to see that a little bit more, I suppose. And it's a, it's a tough balance, because you've, you've got to understand the concepts behind what's going on. So then be able to put it into practice. But I think it's that practice piece that's really important. If I could do my time again, I'd love to, I was really lucky, I was able to do placements while I was at university. And that really helped me. So through the indigenous cadetship programme. And I think without that, that really aided my learning. And without that, I probably wouldn't have been able to really understand the concepts as as well as, as I did. You may not be the most intelligent.

Paul Barnett 04:05

But you're definitely the most tenacious and visionary. And we'll we'll get on a little bit later on to your journey from that small town in Western Australia through to the big league. But I'd like to just take a step back, actually, if we can, because your background, you know, you've worked with at risk youth. You've worked in indigenous communities, you've worked in development, youth squads, all the way as you've been pushing towards this head coach position, and I'd like to ask you, what is it you think is important that younger players develop before they reach that senior team?

Tanya Oxtoby 04:38

I think that's a great question. And I probably there's probably not one, one sort of specific answer. One, one of the components is around accountability, and understanding themselves and how they learn. I think that's really important. I think one a really good example for me is I'm a visual learner. So I like to see things and because I know that about myself, I have staff members, for example, sort of talking to me about what's going on on the pitch, because they see something that I don't. I'm like, don't, don't talk to me, you need to show me get the board out, draw me a picture, whatever it is. And I think for kids that are coming through, sort of, they're coming through an elite level, and they want to be a professional footballer, they want to succeed, they have to understand their own learning style, because that's really, really important. Because then they can communicate that they don't get frustrated, they don't internalise it, they don't think it's about them. It's us, as coaches, we need to understand how we can best reach their potential. And if they can give us a helping hand with that, say, Actually, I don't, I don't understand what you're saying to me. Can you show me or can we? Can you demonstrate? Can you draw it on the board or, or whatever it might be? That's really, really useful[P3] . So there's that element of it. And there's also the accountability. I think that's, that's really important, I think, in general, about performance and about what can I do, I'm in control of my dream, I'm in control of my goals, I'm in control of certain elements, and let go of the stuff that you can't control, but really take accountability for the stuff that you can. And I think as you can sort of come up the ranks and as you get into senior football, that is something that is a coach's dream. And we want that we want players that look at themselves, first, think about what they can change what they could have done better. What they did really well. And where they're looking to add to that, because as coaches, we should be doing the same thing we should be looking, I know, when we don't perform well, or we lose a game. First thing I do is think oh, what did I do wrong there? Did I set us up? Right? Did I did I get the opposition analysis wrong straightaway, you should be looking at yourself first and then start to look outwardly. [P4] So I think for me, they're the two key things because it's so hard to teach as you get older. So as you're coming through that use system, if you can start to practice those things that will hold you in good stead. For Tanya, when you were younger,

Paul Barnett 06:57

being coached by your dad. There in the bath blocks of wha

07:04

Yeah.

Paul Barnett 07:04

They told you, you'd never be good enough to play at the national level. In fact, they said you'd never be anywhere near good enough. Yep, you did play for Australia. Now you're coaching an England youth youth team. And you're coaching over there in England in the in the top league in the Premier League, you must have tremendous self belief to keep going. How do you help others develop that same level of self belief?

Tanya Oxtoby 07:31

I think it's really tough. Because if you if people met me, they'd probably say, she's really confident and she comes across like she really backs herself knows her stuff, and, or whatever it is that people say that I do hear a lot. And actually, I'm the complete opposite of that. I think I'm so I constantly doubt myself, I constantly worry if I'm good enough, I constantly think that I'm here because of luck, things like that. So I think whilst my journey has been amazing, and I'm, I'm so privileged to be where I am. I hope one day I can sort of think the way that you've just spoken there and think Well, actually, that's because of all of the things that I've enjoyed and the lessons I've learned, because at the moment, it's kind of that like Balancing Act of, yeah, I've had to work hard, but some of the maybe I don't deserve it, maybe maybe it is a bit of luck, maybe. So I guess to answer your question, for me, it's about making sure that players and staff that I work with in particular staff, because I think it's really important that they understand that they're there because they're good enough, and that they have a skill set. And that they whilst they're not perfect, and there's areas that they need to develop, just like players do, that they bring something to the table, and it's generally something that I don't have, which is exactly why they're in our staff group, or when you're a player, you've got attributes that are that set you apart, and you need to make those super strength they need you need to make those things your, your go to, and not always focus on the things that you're not great at, there's an element of that 100%, but also focus on the things you're really good at, and really embrace that and make that your go to. [P5] For me, I like to think that my my player management is probably my, my strength and the tactical side of things and the delivery side of things. And that's all the stuff that I'm still working on. And it's a you I don't think you ever fully unless you're I don't know 65 and you've been in the Premier League for 30 years. I'm not sure you just got that I think it's something you can certainly develop and learn. For me my player management is something that I know that I'm good at and I think that probably is from my psychology background. So I back myself in that area. And then the other areas are some of its fake it till you make it like it is that's just the way it is. I think as you get more experienced as you've been through more adversity and you know, I think the last two years has taught me a lot in terms of sort of my my journey. I think that Things will start to come a little bit more naturally, it'll be a little bit more comfortable in my own skin. But at the moment, it's still very much like, pinch myself can't believe I'm here.

Paul Barnett 10:08

While you are there. Actually 2018, your appointed Bristol City head coach. First year, the team earns its most champion points ever and the sixth place. And you also had the lowest player budget in the league. What were the first things you did when you started with that team?

Tanya Oxtoby 10:28

Oh, yeah, see, I look back on that now. And that is a story of the half. First thing I did was try and get players because we had none. We had two players signed on. And we were due to start preseason, sort of, you know, four or five days. So had to push preseason start date back, obviously, because you can't start with two players. That's just ridiculous. So push the start date back. This is quite quite a funny story. But those that know me will know that this sums me right up was due to go on holiday. And thought you know what, I'm still going, I'm gonna go and I can do what I need to from there. So boarding the plane, I'm on the phone to players and trying to sell the dream if you like, and I'm like, I'll call you back in an hour, I'm just about to jump on the plane, you know, things like that. So at that point, I just thought, you've got to embrace it, you've got to roll with it. Don't let it stress you out too much on holiday, sat in the pool, trying to recruit players and bring people in and using all all of your networks and all the people you trust to try and get as much information as you can, and bring a group together that actually are grateful for an opportunity. And that I think is the probably the crux of why we did so well that season was because everybody that was there wanted to be there, it was a fantastic opportunity for them to use team and the club as a stepladder for their own showcase, if you like. But we had a clear vision and a clear drive, which was to survive and stay in the league. And I think getting the staff on board was really important as well, and being really clear about what it was that I was going after. And look, not everybody agrees with with the way that you go about things. But it's about being honest and respectful. And I've got staff that are still there with us now and staff that obviously just went You know, this isn't for me. And that's absolutely fine as well, because we shook hands, and they went off to different roles and things like that. And that's fine. That's football, footballs opinions, so the way that I do things is obviously not going to be perfect for everybody. And then they'll have a different opinion on that. [P6] So so they will probably the first two things, getting the buy in from the players and the buying from the staff and then just having a really clear vision about what what it was that we were going after and how we were going to do that. And again, that comes back to those details. I think previously, Bristol had been quite a free flowing, score loads of goals, can see loads of goals, team and for me, it was around trying to get some confidence with the group and get confidence is really important to get their buy in and keep their buy in. So I think when we came out, and we played our first couple of games, and we were probably a little bit more structured and a little bit more, I don't like the word defensive. But if we were very much compact behind the ball and look to counter, and everybody sort of bought into that. I don't think teams expected it, I think they were a little bit sort of shocked. And that element of surprise gave us the opportunity to pick up points probably where we we really didn't deserve to when you look at the likes of Chelsea and Man City that we drew it on paper and their resources. Yeah, it was it was a real ride. That first season, that's for sure.

Paul Barnett 13:35

visionary is actually a term that comes up a lot when I was researching you. A lot of people use that word to describe your approach and your style. Before I ask you the question, I'd like to read back a quote I found from you, and you say I'm very big on the welfare and management of players, and making sure they're being challenged within a safe work environment, but also pushing them outside of their comfort zone. It's something that's a big part of my philosophy as a coach. And so I wanted to ask you, what are the core components of your coaching philosophy?

Tanya Oxtoby 14:09

Yeah, I think for me, I coach based on my values. It's that simple. I think, like I've said before the tactical awareness and the detail, the technical detail, that all comes. And I think for me, it's got to be about the player first. So So I coach based on my values, because if players buy into what we're trying to do as a group, and I can help them individually, I think that's where I get my most satisfaction watching them develop. But if we've got players that don't buy in and all they trample on those values, that's when I start that's when I lose my rag. So for me, it's really, really important that everything that I do comes back to those core values of trust of honesty. Family is really, really important as well and having that balance and I always say to the to the players at the end of the day, you're a person first. And I'll always respect that. And I'll do everything I can to support that. And like I said previously, you never know what people are going through behind the scenes. But at the same time, I'm going to be honest with you. And there's going to be things that I say that you're not going to like, and but you will respect them. Because at the end of the day, we're all working towards the same thing. So I think the players appreciate that they know where that boundaries[P7] . So if, for example, a player doesn't come in on a particular day, because something's going on at home, or they need to get someone's email or something like that. It's not my job to tell the whole group about that. But if someone's not in and I say are, they're not in, because I've told them, they can have the day off. Generally speaking, they know that there's something that's going on, because they've been in that position before. And I've done the same thing for them. So for me that that consistency, that real clear player first approach is how I go about things. And that then allows you to challenge when you need to challenge which is really important, because we're in a high performing environment, and people are going to do things that are not always not always roses is that people don't always stick to those boundaries, or you'll have players that push those boundaries, but you've got to be able to have the report to be able to challenge those players and, and their actions. [P8] I think Ebony salmon is a great example of that this season. She didn't start games. She's been with me for two years now. She's a great talent, I think when she first came to us wasn't even she came on trial was I wasn't sure if we were going to pick her or not. We took a chance, fair play to her because actually, she could have gone any way she wanted. But she wanted Ws l football. So she she came down on trial and the way that she's gone about things since that point has been up and down. And she's a young player. So she's going to, she's going to have that. But we had words at the start of the season where I said, you know, these are the expectations, and this is what I need from you for you to play. For her that was quite hard to hear, I think because she's very, very talented. And we have a great relationship. So again, it comes back to what I was saying there about making sure that you it's player first. But actually, when push came to shove, and I said, Look, these are the things I need from you. And I'm telling you this because I care about you, because your goals are to play for England, the National, the senior national team, and I wouldn't be doing my job if I just let you cruise. They were tough conversations. But look at her now. she embraced that she could have on one or two ways she embraced that she knew that it was coming from a great place. And it's an absolute credit to her. She's done everything that the club's asked her and she's had her first senior call up. So that's probably a good example, I guess of me thinking about the player first thinking about what it is that we want for her. And obviously for the group, because she's playing well. She's scoring goals, and we've got a chance of staying up. But also coming from a place where it's caring. I think that's really important because I don't think I could have had that conversation with her if I didn't have that rapport.

Paul Barnett 17:56

Tanya youth not only spoken about the importance of words, and actions when it comes to players, but also I've been very interested in your whole view and body language, particularly as it pertains to the head coach on the sidelines. If someone wanted to improve their body language, if there's a coach listening or a leader, what are a couple of tips you would give them to make a better impact with their body language?

Tanya Oxtoby 18:21

Yeah, just be really aware of yourself. I think, you know, the classic one of when a coach is on the sideline, and they're screaming, just relax, calm down and thinking, well, your actions now aren't really sort of demonstrating what it is that you want from your playing group. But just be really be really aware and be really deliberate with what it is that you do. I think one of the things that I learned from myself is that I if someone does trample a little bit on my values, because like I said, I'm a very values lead coach, I can flip very quickly. And I think it's about being aware that that's happening and, and having strategies in place. So for me, if I can feel that a player is pushing my buttons because of that, because they're not kind of the overall vision of what we're trying to do, or there's an there's an issue there. For me, I'll walk away because I know if I stay in that situation, that actually my reaction and the way that my even if I'm saying one thing, my body or my face is saying a completely different thing. And that's not players, and that's silly. They see straight through it[P9] . So I could be saying, No, I'm not bothered. But actually I've got a scowl on my face, and I look I've got steam coming out my ears. And for me, it's about taking myself away from that situation. Going back when I'm clear headed, and I'm really got a really, really clear understanding about what it is that I want to go after. So what I'd say as a really helped me is just be really aware of what it is from your own point of view, that does press your buttons and everything that you do should be sort of thought about and calculated and deliberate. And if you don't feel like you're in control to be able to do that, work out strategies that might be able to buy you some time. To be able to do that, I think that's really important. Another good example is obviously, if we're not performing well, and I know that I know, I'm going to have to go in and raise my voice at halftime, I'll always say to my captain, I'm coming in, and I'm going to go. So you let the girls know, they need to sit down, and they need to listen. And so it's about you know, everything's deliberate. Everything's very purposeful and thought out. And that's really difficult to do in a high performing environment, unless you're very self aware. Because sometimes you get swept up in things and I'm just as bad normally, it's the referees, so I'm not gonna lie, but But yeah, it's self awareness and knowing what works for you, I think and really thinking about your, your words and your actions matching up because players see through when they don't[P10] . My players know when I'm nervous that like, and I don't sit there go, No, No, I'm fine. Because that's a lie. That's a lie. I'm like, yeah, I'm nervous. But fine, we'll be good. Like, we've got this, this, this and this. So it's about normalising when there's a difference between what they see and what you're saying normalising that as well. And not trying to always show the coat over the top, because they're very clever players, they see through things very quickly,

Paul Barnett 21:10

I wanted to ask you a little bit about trust, actually, because in your second season at Bristol, you had a slate of injuries. And in talking about that season, you said I'm not gonna lie, it's been really tough, emotionally draining. I've learned a lot about myself, and who I can trust. And it was the last piece of that sense that really caught my eye. And I was interested not to talk to hear about where you're getting protection, just understand what you learned that year about trust and how it applies to leadership.

Tanya Oxtoby 21:38

I guess the easiest way for me to sort of put that in context is you know, when you win games, and things are great, the group's happy staff are happy, like it's a great place to be, you've got people texting you left, right and centre, everything's fantastic. That all dries up very, very quickly, when you're not winning games, or football, and I think the media pressure because we had such a great season in 2018, the media pressure was on as well. And there was questions being asked, and it's difficult because you've got a cake. There's certain things that you can't say in the media about the context of why you're in that situation and to do with sort of budgets and things like that there was such an influx in the 2019 season, so much investment from a number of clubs, and then we we stayed the same, there are there abouts, and that that was difficult, because we overachieved obviously in 2018. People work this out. And whilst other clubs that were kind of evidence, a great example there, obviously on they were second from bottom in 2018. And then they invested heavily for the next season. So straightaway, they're, they're in a catapulted up, and we're kind of still where we are. So yeah, I guess for me, when I was talking about trust, it's about who's around when it's not great, because people are all your friends when you are doing well. And they all want a piece of that success. And they want to be a part of that. But actually, when things are not going well, and you need some support, and you need people to who understand you and understand that you probably doubt yourself as well, when you need those people around. That's what I meant by trust, because you can open up to them and say, Look, I am struggling here like i, this is what I want to do. But I can't I can't even get anywhere close to that because of these factors. And I can't change some of those factors, because injuries and things like that you can't, you don't have a magic wand, and you're doing the best that you can. And it's really difficult. And yet it's the trust pieces around those that are around when things are not going well. They they love you anyway, they see you for who you are anyway, your strengths and your your areas that you're not great at. And they support you through that. And I think that's really, really important[PB11] . And even this season hasn't the first part of this season. Again, we were hit with loads of injuries and in the same position in terms of our sort of investment and COVID obviously really affected I guess our ability to provide an environment for the players because we're sort of working out of a makeshift area. I know a lot of clubs were doing that, but from our perspective is probably even more so of a struggle. And the one thing that I just kept thinking to myself was keep the group together because it will turn at some point at some point players will come back from injury at some point results will change. And you need everybody together because and we need we need everybody believing that we can get out of this. And I think that's probably one of the most positive things that's come out of obviously max come in now and he's done a fantastic job. And one of the things he keeps saying is the scripts are amazing. I love working with them. They're so positive, they're still so together with what given everything that's gone on and and that for me is when we link that back to what am i As a coach, I think that's probably one of the biggest compliments that he could give is that actually he's got the foundation to come in now and be able to do what he he needs to do to help us survive. And he's one of those people that when things are not going well, he's, he's there. So that's what I mean by trusts, because it's very fickle industry. And you learn quite quickly, who who's on your side, and actually who's just along for the ride, if that kind of makes sense.

Paul Barnett 25:27

It does make sense. And for those listening, Matt has come in because Tanya is on maternity leave. Tanya, I wanted to talk a little bit about performance anxiety, you're such a positive person, you radiate belief and resilience. But we all know that athletes struggle on the big stage on any stage, actually, and I've seen you speak online about performance anxiety, and I just be really interested in hearing your thoughts and advice for the leaders on helping people deal with it.

Tanya Oxtoby 25:56

He again, again, I think for me, I always try and just get the girls to focus on what they're good at. So it's really important that when things aren't going well, you go back to what you know, and what you're comfortable with, because we talk about stepping outside our comfort zone. And that's obviously when we get a little bit anxious, and which is a good thing. But when we step outside, and things aren't going well, it's about sort of dipping a toe back in to where you think, actually, I'm okay with this. So for me, you know, whenever I can see a player is getting quite worked up or they're, you can say that they're just the nerves have got the better of them. And they're actually that tip too far on the curve, where actually it's going to start to affect their performance in a in a negative way. I get them to just come back and just say, remember why you play, you play because you love it, you play because it's the sport that you adore, you play because your parents watch you you play because it puts a smile on your face and you love playing with. try and be as specific as you can, [P12] might be Sophie Bagley loves playing with jazz Matthews, or you know, in our team, or whatever it is. And remember what you're good at, if you get yourself in a muddle, don't try and over complicate things. If we're talking about a centerback, head, the ball clear lines and track your runners, they are three things. So just bring it right back to basics. And, and you can see then once they start to do those those things, maybe two or three times in the first part of the game, then they can start to grow into it. And that just naturally kind of naturally take off, I suppose. But also on the other side of that if for whatever reason, a player has had a stinker, and you know that they're, they're quite down, I think it's really important. That's a really good time to, to get them to go back to their goals. Every player in our groups got an individual development programme. And within that is, their goals and the things that they want to work on. There's three or four things that they want to work on in each area. There's also three or four things that they're very good at. And we just sit there and go through some film with them go through the game, if there's nothing, if they're struggling to pick stuff out, there's always stuff that I can pick out. And that's not a problem or stuff from previous games where they've done those things brilliantly well, and it's about again, normalising the fact that they're not going to be perfect every game. There's nobody out there that plays every week and is a 10 out of 10 you're going to have those blips, you're going to have those times where actually you might just be a six out of 10. And that's okay, because actually, I'd be expecting the person next to you to step up and be playing their 10 out of 10 game for that period of time. So yeah, normalising it getting them to think about what they're really good at, not over complicating things, because as athletes and as coaches we get so in our own head, worry about so many things. Just go back to the basics of why do you play Why do you enjoy it, and do the things that you're good at and the tide has to turn at some point whether that's as a player, you know, individually, whether that says a group, things change, and you just got to be confident in your own ability that you've got there for a reason. And that if you keep doing the right things that things will eventually turn in the right direction.[P13]

Paul Barnett 29:03

Tanya service is such a big part of your life. You've you've worked as I said earlier, you've worked with Indigenous Australians. You've helped others with mental health challenges you're involved with Paralympic sports, but I would be interested to hear a story if you if you would be happy to share when with someone else's helped you as a coach.

Tanya Oxtoby 29:21

There's a I like I'm on a programme at the moment where through the FA and it's to support female players and coaches working within the female game at the elite level. And we have a mentor each as part of that programme and it is one of the best things that I've ever been a part of if I'm really honest, they pair us up. My mentor is not in football, she's been in the army. She's played elite sport for her country and then to Olympic Games. And so she she gets performance sport but she's not from football at all. And she is probably one of the main reasons I guess for me that I got through that first period of the season, because she's the person that you can be vulnerable to she's the person that you can say, I don't know what I'm, I don't know where to go next year. And she's able to bring me back and sort of say, well hang on a second you, you one of the most clearly defined people that I know, this is what you know, we've spoken about previously. Talk to me about why you're thinking that, [P14] obviously, being pregnant is very different and scary, especially in COVID. And given all the changes at the club, and the things that have gone on with the league and things like that, it's been a really tough, I'd say, nine months. And she's been fantastic at supporting me through that. And I think without her, yeah, I don't I genuinely don't know where I would be because everybody needs that ability to be vulnerable. And your family's always going to think you're great, because that's their job. But when you have someone that's been there and done it in, in different industries, and obviously, like I said, she's been in the army, so she's been in a male orientated environment as well and knows the challenges that come with that, and has really helped me to be able to deal with some of those barriers, if you like, because they are there. Everyone will say they're not, but they are. And she's been fantastic. So she's been one of the major influences, even though it's probably not been over a long period of time. She's come in right at the at the peak of when I've needed someone. And yeah, just think she's changed the way I think she's changed the way I believe in myself. And that's very, very difficult to do for someone that's, you know, 38 years of age. So 38 and my family, I've done it 3839 it's all blown into one now. But yeah, she she's been fantastic. And like I said, came in right at the right time. And I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have her along the journey to be honest.

Paul Barnett 31:54

Tanya, if I could take you back to that small town of Wiccan NWA, and introduce you to that 12 year old girl to being coached by her dad? What advice would you give her?

Tanya Oxtoby 32:05

I think two things one would be, don't let anybody tell you can't do anything. That would be the first the first real key point. And the second point would be, you can't please everybody. I think the first part of my coaching journey, I was trying to make everyone happy. I was trying to I don't really know how else to put it. But I think I wanted to be light. I think I wanted the players to like me, I think I wanted, I wanted to make sure they all had smiles on their faces. They were all in a great place. But actually was I doing them an injustice by not being able to challenge them and not being able to really kind of step them outside their comfort zone and things like that. So I think Yeah, don't try and Please, everybody, you want to be respected. You don't want to you don't need to be liked, you need to be respected. [P15] And I think that would be the one thing that I would really hammer home to myself is that there's a real difference between the two. And it's probably been only in the last three, four years that I've really realised there's a difference and gone about things a little bit differently. But yeah, don't listen to people that put you down or that I heard a quote, actually, I heard a really good quote on Thursday, I think it was, I want to say it was from Lisa Fallon, when she said, don't take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from. And I thought that was really powerful. Because it's really important, everybody, everybody out there has an opinion. And you need to find that balance, I suppose of what you listen to and what you don't. Because, again, if I'd listened to some of the stuff that I was told, when I was younger, I probably won't be here. So you got to find that balance.

Paul Barnett 33:44

Tanya, you've been very generous with your time, particularly for someone that could be in hospital in any minute. But I'd like to just finish with one question if I could. And you've said, You can't be what you can't see. And here you are over in the Ws l paving the way for other people to come behind you. Hopefully, other Australians, maybe Indigenous Australians for small communities as well. But in the distant, distant future, 30 years from now, when you are finished, potentially you're coaching your own son at that point of being in Spain

Tanya Oxtoby 34:13

on a beach or something.

Paul Barnett 34:16

What do you think? What do you want your legacy to be?

Tanya Oxtoby 34:19

Oh, that's a great question. I think I always say I want to wherever I go, I just want to leave the environment in a better place and when I found it, so I would just like to, for me, I'd like to just be known as the the person that or the coach that helped helped as many players as I could i think i'm not i hate losing but I'm not about winning trophies. That's and I know that's a really strange You know, when I say that out loud, people look at me really strangely and sort of go What do you mean, you just made a contract up fine, or what do you mean? I don't, you know, but for me, we did it the right way. We played the kids, we gave them loads of minutes, you know, because That's what works for us. That's what the candy cups about. And so the bonus is getting to the Cup final. But actually, that was never the goal. The goal was around, making sure we expose players and give them opportunities for minutes and help their development. And I'd like to think those players will always remember that when I want to be remembered, I want players to think back and of their time that I've coached them, whether that's one year, two years, five years, I think you know what she really, she helped me be a better person. And she helped me be the best version of myself at that particular time. I think for me, that's how I'd like to be remembered, man, anything that comes along in terms of medals or lead positions and things like that, well, that's that's a bonus for me[P16] . And maybe that view might change if, if I move environments or something like that, but at this point, that's, that's definitely the most important thing for me. And again, I think it just comes back to those values that drive me as a coach that actually I'm more about the person and making sure that they, they look back on their time, wherever they were with me and going to know what like she was hard man like she she really pushed me but she cared about me as well. And she did it for a reason. And I think that's probably one of the most memorable things I guess as a coach, because trophies, I think, trophies, that fades a little bit, but the impact of the imprint you have on people, I suppose last a lifetime. So that's what I'd like to be remembered for when I'm sipping mohito on the beach, watching the sunset.

Paul Barnett 36:36

Best version helping people be the best version of themselves. Yeah. It's been a wonderful way to finish. Tanya, thank you so much for your time today. It's been absolutely fun and a privilege chatting with you. Good luck to the team tomorrow. And good luck for you whenever that baby decides to come out.

Tanya Oxtoby 36:55

Yeah, let's hope it's not there. But not both on the same day or that could be a disaster. But I yeah, we'll see what happens but thanks for having me.