Ep46_JennyBoucek_Edit1

Wed, 5/5 8:10AM • 45:15

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coach, people, leaders, life, head coach, nba, players, athletes, challenged, thought, ecosystem, game, generation, negativity, started, sport, team, learned, years, understand

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Jenny Boucek

Paul Barnett 00:00

So Jenny busick Good afternoon, or sorry, it's good morning where you are. And welcome to the great coaches podcast.

Jenny Boucek 00:07

It's a pleasure to be here. I mean, just based on the questions that you said, I'm encouraged and challenged by this conversation, I think that we have coming up.

Paul Barnett 00:16

Well, now you've set me up like that I better do my best to deliver on those questions. But we're really happy to talk to you, Jim. And I love talking a little bit of basketball. And we also like talking about Iceland, which we will hopefully get into this discussion as well. But Jenny, something really simple and easy to get going with, Could you just tell us where you are in the world and what you've been up to so far today.

Jenny Boucek 00:38

So I'm assistant coach right now with the Dallas Mavericks, my journey has taken me all over literally the world, through this great game of basketball, it definitely is an adventure has been an adventure always is an adventure. It's not the profession you want to be in if you're if you need stability, or predictability, or a lot of continuity in your life. But it's worked for me and it's been a great, great pleasure and blessing. But we are now my daughter and I in the great state of Texas, in Dallas with the Mavericks sounds fantastic. And from what I hear the weather is quite good there at the minute.

01:11

Jenny Boucek 01:13

one of the best things in these tough times where there's a lot of challenges, to be in a place where you can be outside is such a blessing. Because you you just it's not safe to be inside with with people. But when you have especially when you have a kid, be able to be outside and go on nature walks and learn and explore and, and just have that quality time connecting with the outdoors is a blessing in disguise for sure.

Paul Barnett 01:38

Genuine I was preparing for today, I started looking through a long list of coaches that you've had firsthand experience with Rick Carlisle, Dave yoga, Brian agler, McMillan, and Donovan and even john wooden. I guess my first question is, what do you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart from everybody else?

Jenny Boucek 02:01

Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the things about all the great leaders that I've been around is that they have a great sense of of self, you can lead a lot of different ways with a lot of different personalities. I've seen a lot of different leadership styles be successful. But you have to be true, first and foremost to who you are, and not try to be anybody else. And I think that's a tricky thing, especially for young leaders, because you've been influenced probably by a very good leader. And it's a tendency to just want to be like them, but it may not be who you are and, and actually Mike D'Antoni shared something with me. And when I was getting ready to go into my first head coaching job, and I was young, I was 3031 years old at that time, I was gonna be the youngest head coach and professional sports in the United States. He was coaching the great Phoenix Suns team with Steve Nash, and they were on a great run there, and happened to connect with him through some interesting circumstances. That's another story. But he really took me under his wing. And he said some things to me and a part of some things to me, especially in regards to leadership that stuck out, he was a player's coach. And he was known for that. And his style was very different, especially at that time to most NBA coaches. He said this to me, you have to know who you are. I'm a player's coach. I'm a relational coach. And but when you are different to the norm, you have less margin for error, but it's still critical that you are true to who you are. And so it made me think really going into that first head coaching job for the first time like really, really think like, okay, who am I? What is my leadership style up to this point as a player as an assistant coach? And how can I commit to being intentional and staying true to that through thick and thin just hearing from him how critical that was in that consistency of self awareness. So that will be a big one. For me another one. Another one that's not as talked about, is in terms of attributes of the greatest leaders that I've ever been around. I think it's really under talked about, but it's, it might be at the top of my list. Underneath that self awareness piece is empathy, and understanding the importance and the power of empathy, and the need for it as a leader. And so seeing the great leaders that I've been around, be great listeners, be great studies of their, the people in their circle of influence, and try to do everything they can and having the emotional IQ and the ability to put themselves in people's shoes, especially in different situations, really sets them apart as a leader.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 04:39

And you had a distinguished career at the University of Virginia for regular season championships, three NCAA Elite Eight appearances. And in 1997, you graduate with a double major in sports medicine and sports management. But knowing what you know now, what do you wish they had taught you back then at uni? Diversity,

Jenny Boucek 05:01

you know, I have to say, I was prepared, I went to great high school had a great coach. In high school, if I told you stories about my high school coach, you wouldn't even believe it. But other than my parents, he probably shaped me more than anybody in my whole life. And then went on to University of Virginia was surrounded again, by just unbelievable people, that helped me find who I was, and encouraged that both my high school coaches and who I was around in college, for example, the major that I ended up having, as you shared, I created that major, but they allowed that just through conversations with the leaders, the deans, you know, and, and just telling them my interest in and some of my thoughts and they said, Well, why don't you put together a proposal and create your own major, and then we'll, you can propose it to all the different parts of the university that will be involved all the leaders, if you can sell it to them, then we'll create a major for you, and tailor make it for you. And so I had to put together this well thought out proposal of my major and what I thought the curriculum should be and how it should look and why and, and then I had to go to the Dean of the educational school, the business school, the arts and science school, and I had to sell this, they all went into, they all thought it was great. And they formed this major for me that not only was it just tailor made for me and my interest in my curiosities, but it was a five year deal. So I was only playing four years of basketball. But it because it was a five year deal, they gave me a fifth year scholarship, paid for that. And that fifth year included six mini internships, which was part of the proposal because in my observation, I'm looking around and I'm seeing like, you know, all these other college students, they're spending their entire college time, well, part of the time party, but the rest of the time thinking about what they're going to do after they're putting all of their attention into what they're going to do when they graduate. They have jobs, they're doing internships, they're doing interviews, they're doing all this stuff. And when you're a college athlete, you have no time for any of that you're in survival mode, you might even be in a major, some some student athletes, that is just so that you can get the grades to stay eligible, it's not even something you're interested in. And so we're so in the present and in survival mode as a collegiate athlete, that all of that huge percentage of athletes that don't go on to play professionally, end up at the end of college with a degree, but no idea what they're good at, apart from sport, and what they're interested in. And research is very clear that the best way to figure it out is to try things. And you're not going to like a lot of it, but you won't know until you just try and kind of date around. And we don't get an opportunity to do that. So to have a fifth year where I had six mini internships to try things was invaluable for me when I ended up getting to the point in my life where I was making that transition.

Paul Barnett 08:02

Kenny, your father is a doctor, your mother was a psychologist and your maternal grandfather founded the Department of Psychiatry, I believe at Tulane University. So when staff and players describe you as being intuitive, I imagine that's a skill that you picked up around the dinner table. But what tips Have you got about getting closer and learning and building intimate relationships with players in this digitally distracted world we find ourselves in at the minute?

Jenny Boucek 08:32

It's a great question because it is getting more and more challenging because of this generation. This generation is hard. And that's not their fault. And again, that starts with empathy. Okay, this generation can be frustrating for older generations and leaders, because they're different. And there's a lot of big changes in this generation spikes and declines. That's a typical in generational transitions. The first step I think is for us as leaders learning about this generation learning about what's different about them why they are the way that they are, the more understanding we have, the more we can connect and meet them where they are. And you can't really influence somebody until you meet them where they are, and then lead them from that point, you can't just get frustrated that they're not where you want them to be. You got to figure out where they are, why they are there, connect with them at that point, and then build up some equity to influence. You have to build equity with this generation. This generation is not trusting this generation is lacking in some of the emotional IQ relationship, skill departments. And again, it's not their fault. And so we've got to put in some time in those areas before we even have really a starting point. In terms of leading them. The confidence is low in this generation. Again, not there. fault. So their ability to handle truth and feedback, which is what Coach good coaching is, there has to be some built up trust first before they can, they can handle that. And the old saying that athletes, students, they don't care what you know, until they know that you care, I think that's more important than ever.[PB2] And so understanding this generation, putting in the time building relationship, building trust, helping them learn about themselves, and some of the things that about that about their generation in the way that they've been brought up, that the more they understand about themselves, the more you can deal with it head on. I think all those things are important. When you're leading, especially this generation.

Paul Barnett 10:43

Kenny, you've said, when people choose to follow you, it's because you represent who they want to be like. So what are the values and behaviors that people who follow you see,

Jenny Boucek 10:56

I don't remember saying why. But I do think there, especially this generation, you know, when the W MBA and the MBA, you're dealing with many women that are about as street smart as you get, and they're going to see through you, they're going to see who you really are. If you are a leader that has ulterior motives, that has selfish ambition motivating you, they smell it out, especially over time. So I think the goal for me has always been to stay true to who I believe that I am, and want to be and never let this business which this is tough, and my surroundings change me or harden me, because then I feel like I would lose my influence. Because I do believe my influence comes from being somebody that since day one, when I got into coaching got into this for no other reason. But to help these athletes become the best that they can be.[PB3] I was blessed, even two weeks ago to have a player on our team who's bounced around a lot. He's older, he's a vet, made a lot of money. He's experienced failures, he's experienced success. He's been cut, he's been traded, he's been through a lot in his life, very streetwise. And he said, just in passing under his breath, like, No, I'm, I'm listening to what you're saying, coach, because I know that you have no motive other than to help me. And he said, much more in passing than that. But that bless me, because I'm like, Okay, I'm still here in this place, and they know it. And so being authentic, not being about your goals, like so many coaches, especially on this level, they get hung up and climbing the ladder, how things are reflecting on them, their job security. And anytime we I think as a leader, as a coach start becoming about us, we start living in fear of what people think reflection, job security, now it becomes about us, we lose our influence. And I believe our most powerful influence is to care about these men or women and keep their well being first.[PB4]

Paul Barnett 13:11

I was reading recently. This is a quote that I can attribute correctly to you, you said that you were more attracted to being part of a team's ecosystem than to any other role or title within it. And I was really intrigued by the word ecosystem to describe the dynamic within a team. And so I wanted to ask you, what are the most critical components from your perspective, in creating a really powerful and dynamic ecosystem?

Jenny Boucek 13:40

First is understanding that it is an ecosystem that is fragile. When you learn about any ecosystem, you understand how one thing affects the other. And it's continual. And so it's got to constantly be managed, and monitored, because something even like that might appear in isolation to be a good thing. How is that affecting everything else, because it might be an isolation, a good thing, but to the whole, not. And so having an understanding of that having a finger on the pulse of that monitoring that, I think is something that's critical,[PB5] it's something that that I'm continually talking to like coach Carlyle about just trying to have like, a different perspective to be able to step back at times, and see this and then give him some feedback on the ecosystem and maybe things that he can do to keep it where we want it to be. And my experience with championship cultures, is this is finding that quote, unquote, magic ecosystem. And then once you've experienced that, you know what you're looking for, you know, what it feels like? And it starts with the people that you have in your ecosystem. You add or you take away one ingredient to the ecosystem, I think we can sometimes under estimate how much that can affect things. And then it's also like these are human beings. So what's going on in their lives individually, so you can bring back the exact same group next year that had that magic ecosystem, the exact same people. And based on their mentalities and what's happened in the time that you between now when you've seen him what's going on outside of the game, the ecosystem can change. So it's, it's a constant shepherding of these men and women's hearts and having relationships with them, and having a staff that has relationships with them, so that you can Shepherd, what's going on. And if somebody starts to go astray, you can bring them back into the group, because you understand the importance of that one affects all it is my favorite thing about sport, but it is probably the most challenging thing about managing a team is because it's these are people.[PB6] So it's constant change to your ecosystem and a constant trying to bring it back to where you think is the optimal operating point.

Paul Barnett 15:58

Jenny, I have this summary of your philosophy, which was characterized by a quote again, from you, where you said better me for a better way. And I thought it was fantastic. It's such a great way of building on that idea. There's no I in team Well, actually, there is because if you're better, we'll be better as a group. And it really resonated with me, and I'm wondering if you could tell us where this philosophy came from?

Jenny Boucek 16:23

Well, you know, I do a lot of speaking to companies. Over the years, I've done a lot. And I really enjoy that. They oftentimes what we want to hear how we can, how they can apply like sport principles, team principles, leadership principles to what they're doing. And I was going to speak to a company in Seattle years ago. And they had a motto that was something about that, like, it was something about like, No, no, me only we or something like that in, in thinking about their model. That's where it kind of like, came to me like, no, it's, the better you are, the better we are as long as your pursuit of me is for the weak[PB7] . And so my whole talk was about I can't remember my exact talk. But it was just about how it's not mutually exclusive. Like, we all should be striving to be the best version of ourself. But you know, that the greatest of the greats understand that everything that we've been given, is to give away for the greater good. And that's where the beauty of life really comes[PB8] . I think you see athletes mature in that way. You see, like, the great Michael Jordan, for example, we just watched that documentary that just come out and early in his career was all about becoming the best him and the elite of the elite like the best of the best. They're solely motivated by becoming the best version of themselves. You see, they already are the best in the world. And they're still hungry. Why? Because it's not about being better than anybody else. It's about being the best version of themselves. And there's a strength and a freedom that comes in that motivation[PB9] . And oftentimes, we get too hung up in comparing this than the other, and we lose our inner brahmana. And the greatest of the greats do that but the the even betters or the best version of themselves, when Michael Jordan transition from he already was gifted in this, this innate desire and motivation to be the best version of himself and not care how it compared to anybody else. And the hunger that came along with that. But when that shifted to a more noble realm, not just being the best version of himself, but like, how could he use that to offer that to his team, and now become, that better me make for a better week. And that tapped into his leadership, and really sacrificing in some ways, some of his me, but I would argue made him a better me for the week, that's when he experienced the beauty of team and being part of something greater than himself. And that's where his legacy ultimately lie.

Paul Barnett 19:01

You know, this whole idea of sacrifice and being a head coach is, is so intertwined. But I guess there's times where you get challenged. I mean, you were an assistant with the mystics, then you go to the Miami soul. And eventually you get to this storm, the Seattle storm, and you become part of that team that wins the championship in 2004. You then go to the monarchs, and you get fired. You get let go. And I imagine when that happens, it must make you doubt yourself, if only for a moment. And I'm wondering if there's anything that you've learned about dealing with self confidence and, and building belief. When when a major setback like that happens in your career.

Jenny Boucek 19:44

It absolutely shakes you. I think if you're human, it's caused me over the years, like just, you can't be a good head coach. If you don't have kind of a screw loose, you're not wired a little bit differently. And you're not one of those people. That's kind of like wired for risk and challenge and understanding that that's ultimately what brings out the best version of you. And you're motivated by that. So it starts with, I think, how do we define success, and having a clear creed, an inner creative? What is my definition of success? My belief is if your definition of success is are things that are out of your control, such as your title, money, you make what people think about you, you're not going to, you're not going to leave much of a legacy, you're going to live a very emotionally unstable life, your confidence is going to waver class only, and your mental health is going to suffer and ultimately your your performance and you reaching a very high level that sustainable is going to be suspect, my definition of success, and I've learned this from being around some of the greatest of the greats and studying them is, again, what I said earlier, to become the best version of myself and understand my gifts, talents, passions, ability, experiences, pain struggles, it is all for the purpose of giving back, making this world a better place, serving others through what comes not just to me, but will go through me. And so if that's the case, nobody can take that from me, I don't need a title, I don't need a job, I don't need a paycheck. I don't need anybody's approval, because I'm focused on that[PB10] . So I didn't strive to be a head coach. In the NBA, they came to me and I felt like it was an assignment that I was supposed to accept. But my motivation never changed in terms of what I was doing in my why and my purpose to that I just had a different role in that. And so I tried to figure out okay, with this role, what's my responsibility? Well, it changes a little bit, to now having more of an intention and leading in the culture that you you create, you don't have as much influence creating a culture when your assistant coach you're supporting, you're supporting a head coach and doing that. And now it's like, Okay, what culture do I believe in? And what are the systems that I feel like fit? And they're gonna filter through that, to strengthen that? And then ultimately, how am I trying to influence people? What am I trying to teach them through sport, because I think you could teach every life lesson through sport and help them reach their ultimate potential, not just as an athlete, but as a human being. That's what this is all about[PB11] . Sports should be growing us so that by the time we live sport, we're more prepared for marriage, Parenthood, whatever profession we decide to go, and friendships like we should be, I think if sports are being used, right, we should be more prepared than anybody for anything, because of all the things that we go through. But so yes, while it does shake you to get let go to get fired to be talked about to be criticized. I think it gives you a quicker resilience, when you can look in the mirror and say the things that I care about the things that I was in control of. I did those well. I don't care what anybody else thinks about it. I can look in the mirror and say those things I did well. And so then you wait for where you're led next.

Paul Barnett 23:27

So many things that run through your career story is perseverance and work ethic. But there's also risk, which he talked about as well then, I mean, you turn away from medicine to go and try out in the W MBA, you get accepted. You're about to pack up and leave and they go you back and you get accepted. You go to Iceland to play basketball, you start a family as a single parent, you switch from the W NBA, to the NBA, it's been anything but a linear path in your life and in your career. When other people come to you for advice about risk, what do you tell them?

Jenny Boucek 24:06

I don't think it's a risk to to follow your own heart. I believe that there. I think goals only set you up for frustration and disappointment. But if you can, again, we go back to this self awareness. If you can find your inner place where that voice leads you. You can't go wrong. If you follow the peace. If you follow the passion. If you follow the purpose, then I think there what might appear to be risk is actually the least risky life you can live because you're following the things that nobody can take from you. So there's a strength, there's a resilience, there's, there's an energy, and nobody else is in control of that. I don't want to give any human being control of my soul. And so the only way you can do do that is by living your life for the internal internal rewards, the internal convictions, the internal principles, the internal purpose and passions and things that are just I think I believe we're born with in seed form. And if you live your life in such a way and you're around certain people, those seeds get watered, and now take on a life of itself and you and so that way overpowers any like risks or fears. I think the positive things in life when watered always overpower the negative light always overpowers darkness, darkness doesn't even exist. Without light, darkness is just the absence of light.[PB12] So when we start finding those real substantial things in our life that have that, that level of power than the other things, they don't even really exist.

Paul Barnett 25:50

Can you I wish the people I wish this was a television interview, because anyone could see how energized you are just talking about this idea of positivity being watered. But it's not always the case, right? It's often in the in the dressing room, there is negativity. And there can be a peer pressure that can be detrimental to the good of the ecosystem that you're creating. And I wanted to ask if you have any top tips, specific methods routines, on when it comes to dealing with that negative peer pressure that can take hold within a team?

Jenny Boucek 26:24

No, it's tough. I remember being a rookie in the NBA. And this was the inaugural season of the league and, and no one really knew what we were doing, to be honest with you. And so there was a lot of room for complaining and criticism and negativity. And there's just a lot of funky dynamics that first year. I mean, I can go on and on about it. I remember like because I'd never really experienced that level of negativity, not in the locker room, playing the game that we love. And it was like a kick in the stomach. Like it was just like, disheartening. I just was blown away, because here we are, for the first time ever in the United States getting paid to play basketball. And I was the head it like so thankful and just like couldn't believe it. I was just elated. But then the negativity all around constantly was just draining. And I was young. Most of these ladies were 10 years older than me. And I didn't feel like I had much of a voice. And that was when I decided I started to think about maybe I want to be a coach in the WPA. Because I wanted to have a platform for change. I knew this was no good. This was no good. This was not going to be good for anybody, this was not going to be fun for anybody. Ultimately, this league would even survive like this. And so that I would say pain struggle turned into a passion. And I learned later in life that the word passion, the etymology of that word, comes from the word pain. It's patchy and Latin, passion, the root of it is Patsy and Latin, which means to suffer, or to endure. And I learned a lot about that. So when we go through very painful things in life, instead of feeling sorry for ourselves or getting broken by that and perseverating on that, we can find a way to heal ourselves, overcoming ourselves, oftentimes, that experience is going to lead us to future purpose, because we will now have compassion, which is shared pain, we will have passionate about helping others either not go through what we went through or if they are going through it. Now we can be there to assist them.[PB13] That experience in the locker room of negativity, influence some of the ways that I lead and lead and coach to this day. I don't want my athletes to feel what I felt. So now that I'm in a position of leadership, if I start to hear that negativity, what you always do within a season, I'm passionate about pulling that young man or that young lady aside, and trying to reroute their thinking into a more noble, positive place for their good, and for the good of the team. Because I don't want them to experience what I experienced it. It's easy to complain. But it's like if you throw up or you pass gas, it might feel good to you in the moment. But it's terrible for everybody around you. You know, and then ultimately, that's going to come back around to you. So that team culture and that the championship culture that I'm so passionate about a lot of that comes from not just experienced the good but the experiencing the contrary, and now not wanting other people to have to feel that.[PB14]

Paul Barnett 29:43

It's a great, great analogy. Great, very, very strong. Thank you for sharing that journey. You were with the Sacramento Kings under Diogo. And he said that you can be contrary And by that, I mean she will challenge you. She's not in the group. Thank you. Because groupthink is death, this really connected with me. Because I love it when someone has the courage and the energy to be contrary, whether it's in the boardroom, whether it's in, at a party, wherever it is, it takes courage. How have you found the best ways of getting that message across without it seeming aggressive? Or contrary or negative?

Jenny Boucek 30:27

I don't know if I do that. Great all the time, to be honest with you. But I think the starting point in terms of having the confidence to do that, I mean, I never thought about that until coach agar had said that, but I know 100% 100%, that my motives are pure, and it's to help. I think the reason why some people don't speak up, or they they get into this group think, and and I have great empathy for this is they're afraid, what people will think if it's different, they're afraid of how that's gonna affect their job status. I don't believe that's true. But I think that is the belief system in a lot of people, is they have to please the people around them. And the way to please people around them is to agree. That's the safest choice. It feels the safest. It's the path of least resistance. And you see it a lot. And you see a lot in these great. I'm in the NBA now. So these great men with great ideas, great thoughts, great experiences, great basketball minds. But they're caught up as a coach in, in fear of failure in in fear of what people think and people pleasing. And it's sad to me, honestly, because there's no freedom in that. But I get it. It's a competitive situation. And it's really easy to to get into that fear mindset, just like an athlete can. I think the freedom that I walk in, comes from being in the head coach shoes, to knowing what I wanted as a head coach, I didn't want Yes, people around me that didn't help me as a coach make decisions. So when I asked a question, or offered a topic to the group, I really appreciated people who challenged my thinking and through different ideas and thoughts out there. And even if I thought it was crazy, it still made me think, in a healthy way and help me make better decisions as a leader[PB15] . And so I really appreciated that. First, I worked for Ron Ross been down with the Miami Heat. For four years, he really encouraged this. Also, he had he would throw out an idea or a question, and me and the other system coach, we had to have an answer. And we had to say why. And I was very young. It's basically my first coaching job. And these are 30 year NBA vet some working for and with. So I it challenged me to have to think through like I had to walk, which place should we put in? I don't care? I don't know. No, I have to have an answer. And I have to tell why. But it made me a better system and prepare me for being a head coach. So I just I learned young to just fostering that environment is, is the way that we all grow. But it comes back down to like, I know, my motive is to help this head coach. So if he asked me a question, I'm gonna say what I think will be helpful, you could take it or leave it, I'm not going to take it personal. But my goal is to help you. So here's what I've seen, here's what I think. Take it or leave it. It's not to please you. It's not to try to move up the ladder, it's not to step over this guy next to me. It's to help[PB16]

Paul Barnett 33:34

to take that philosophy though into, into your work into your job into your life. And to have such a deep empathy and compassion and these things you've talked about. It must be so draining, how do you sustain yourself as a leader, given the emotional toll that must take

Jenny Boucek 33:54

it's something I've had to mature in my first head coaching job, I was like really caring, everything for everybody. And from like a logistical standpoint where it made it difficult. If you think about it, as a head coach, I don't know a lot of jobs like this, but every game, every minute of every game, you're pretty much disappointing, like seven or eight players. There's only five on the floor. So though, let's say you have a 1212 woman roster, there's seven players that are kind of upset in any given minutes of a game. There's X number of players, maybe, you know, four out of 12 that don't even get in the game. And I remember like really having to grow in because after every game, I literally would feel terrible for how that made certain players feel. Whether it be their playing time or not playing at all. I felt what they would create Probably be feeling Anyway, it was just too much. And so while I do think empathy is a great strength of leaders, there, there are certain things that you, you have to really learn and remain remind yourself of the decisions that you make, that are ultimately what you believe are best for the group. While they may hurt individuals, they're always right. And you can still you have to find a way of still letting them know you understand how they're feeling, but you don't carry it. There's an acknowledgment at the appropriate time, appropriate timing, but you're not carrying it, like feeling bad about it.[PB17] So that's one example,

Paul Barnett 35:42

actually found a great quote from your father, who said that Jenny's motivated by what she feels is good for the people she works with day to day. I wondered if you could share a story of where this deep motivation has made a difference with the team in the way that they've performed on the scoreboard or maybe just performed and bonded more to form a better ecosystem?

Jenny Boucek 36:10

service specific motivation again, what did my dad say? Your dad

Paul Barnett 36:13

said, and I'll give you the he said she's all about innovation in what she does not just for the sake of innovation, it's usually motivated by what she feels is good for the people. She works with day to day. And I was just wondering, what if there's an example that pops into your mind where you've taken that approach, and the team has developed and evolved and gone forward?

Jenny Boucek 36:36

Well, this is what I talk about the dinner table. This is this is this is my family. So my family, as you mentioned, a long line of doctors and researchers on both sides. My mom's side and my dad's side, it's actually how my parents met was my dad was taking medical classes at Tulane from my mom's father. But they weren't just doctors. the mindset of my family on both sides is to look at status quo and say, Is this right? Yes, this is the way things have been done. Maybe done for a long time, or maybe all of all time? Is this right? Is this best. And it's not in a rebellious way. It's just the way they're wired. And it's what's been passed down amongst generations. My grandfather, you mentioned, that found it, he founded the neurology department in the psychiatry department both Well, he started both of them. And at that time, those two departments were very separate everywhere else in the world. And and he took a way a more holistic approach to say, you can't separate these two things. These two things are one insane ones, the hardware ones, the software were holistic being Now let's look at the mind soul connection, which now there's a million books in Barnes noble, or wherever about this connection. But he started he started that he was the very first very first to say, and theorize when people are jumping off of the top of a building, whatever they're doing. It's not just because of the way they were raised up to that point. They were like, something happened in their childhood. And he said, No, I think there's a chemical thing going on in some of these cases that's causing some of these behaviors that we're seeing. And so he theorized that there was a chemical issue in the brain. Now we medicate everything. He was the first to say, there's something more going on, and we're going to look into that. But the number of first with him was unbelievable. My uncle on my dad's side was the involved in taking the first part out of a bad wound and putting it in a child, and then figuring out eventually how to do a child a child heart transplant. He's passed now from pancreatic cancer, God rest his soul. But he was a doctor that he would show up at work. He was a genius. Like pioneer and all this stuff, he would show up at work at 10am. And he said, if people thought it was crazy, like is he lazy is this he that doctors are supposed to be in at 6am they always been in at 6am. doctors don't sleep, and and he's why I'm gonna work better if I sleep. So I mean, yeah, if it's emergency situation he's in. But otherwise, like, I'm gonna be here after I get some rest. And it was very controversial. I'm just giving you some examples. But like, he didn't see that he didn't see the point. It wasn't it wasn't best in his eyes. And so he didn't care what anybody thought he lost some jobs over. So I could go on and on and on examples in my family of just because something's been done one way doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or the right way. And we need to continually be looking at all areas of life and challenge that. So when I got into coaching, more in a head coaching role, there were a lot of things that had built up over the years and I'm thinking why don't we do that? And is that best? Is that right? stupid things like from a logistical standpoint why Do we do shoot arounds on game days and I know the coaches out there know what that is. So on game day, you come in 910 o'clock 11 o'clock in the morning, on a game day, and you go through your preparation, shoot a little bit, go back home rest. The players are always brain dead, don't want to be there don't listen, you know, you get them out of bed, maybe they had a short night you've traveled what you change time zones. I always felt like it's a waste of time. So I finally looked into it. Why? Why do we start doing shooter rounds in the NBA? Well is because Wilt Chamberlain was staying out all night, romanticizing all the women and they implemented the shoot around so that he had to get up in the morning and maybe keep them from staying out as late all night. Okay, so they won championships, and then everybody confident. So now we're doing shoot arounds. When you look at it from exercise, physiology, mental health, like all these things, it makes absolutely no sense from a scientific standpoint. But we've just always done it. So I sold our ownership on the fact that this doesn't make sense, looked into a lot of sleep science relative to athletes. And we stopped doing morning shoot arounds. And Subaru will tell you to this day, it added five years to her career, we would come in a little early before the game, they've had rest, they own the day, some of them would come in and shoot, they could do whatever they want during the day. Some of them did come in and shoot some of them got treatment, some of them got workouts and whatever they but they own the day, did whatever they needed to do. And then we came in and did our prep right before the game when they were really locked in and wanting to know how to beat the team. But they were way more well rested. And we always peak late in the season for that reason. It also helped a lot on the stress load of a team and taking some of the stress load off of them. Because you learned I learned how mentally stressful it was to get up in the morning on a game day when you're fatigued[PB18] . So anyways, that's one example. But we did a lot of things like that in Seattle when I was a head coach there and it was fun. I think you've talked to the players. Like if you talk to sue bird, she would tell you a lot of the things that we did really helped from a performance standpoint.

Paul Barnett 42:11

It's a fantastic answer. And it's a great, it's great to hear you talking about your family's legacy. Because the last question I'd like to ask you about his legacy. And in the distant distant future, when you do finish up as a coach, I know it's a long way to come. Or perhaps later on when your daughter Riley asks, you know, Mom, what legacy? Did you leave as a coach? How do you think you'll answer?

Jenny Boucek 42:37

I don't know that I'll answer that. That's not something for me to say. I want her to learn that from from other people. And I want her to learn. Hopefully, she already is Lord willing, from how I live my life. You know, I just believe talk is so cheap. The true leaders, if we're talking about leadership, you teach what you know, and they get a certain percentage of it. But you impart who you are good or bad. When you're in a position of influence, when you're a parent, when you're a teacher, when you're a coach, when you're a boss, when you're we all have people in our circle of influence, good or bad, who you are will be important. And so me hopefully being the best version of myself on a day to day basis, there will be an impartation into her. That will be my greatest legacy.[PB19] You know, and so who I am every day, what she sees and experiences every day is the greatest legacy I can leave. And then if she meets some people along the way, I remember meeting people that knew my grandfather knew my mom knew my dad, hearing from them having a parent come to me, a mother, a father and say, Are you Bob booth? Sex daughter? Yeah. Tears. Your dad's, my baby was dying. She was two years old. She was not going to live another year. And your dad saved her life. And she's alive to this day. This is a picture of her just tears her tears. Not only that, I mean, I want to thank you because he must not have been home as much as you would have liked. Because he was always there for us. And we want to thank you. This makes me for your sacrifice.

Paul Barnett 44:30

Jenny, thank you so much for that answer. It's, it's, it's actually quite amazing. It's been it's been a wonderful interview. I you're making such a difference to the players and the people in your life right now. But also, I think it's safe to me, for me to say there's a lot of young women and women all around the world who are watching what you're doing, the path that you are blazing, and it's changing what they think is possible. And so, I'd like to thank you very much for your time today and giving us insight into the amazing, incredible career journey you've had so far. Thank you very much.

Jenny Boucek 45:11

Thanks for having me guys. And thanks for all that you're doing.