Ep49_ValorieKondosField_Edit1

Tue, 5/11 8:42AM • 51:09

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coach, life, student athletes, athletes, winning, ted talk, people, gratitude, live, wooden, relationship, thought, athletics, success, figure, listening, talk, gymnastics, ucla, question

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Valorie Kondos Field

Paul Barnett 00:00

valorie kondos field. Good afternoon, or rather good evening for me, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.

Valorie Kondos Field 00:06

Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is so exciting.

Paul Barnett 00:10

Well notice, you might be excited. But Jim and I are very excited to talk to you about all things gymnastics in your amazing career at UCLA. But before we get into any of that, can I ask you a really tough question to begin? Where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far? Today?

Valorie Kondos Field 00:27

It's so funny. You asked me that. I grew up in California. And I just retired. And my husband said, okay, pick a place because we're moving out of California. And so we recently moved to Northwest Arkansas. Well, I'm like, just people in the United States. We don't have a lot of geography down in our heads. But people on the coasts, we don't know anything about Middle America, or where all the states line up. I shouldn't say we, I don't. And so I was telling everybody, I'm moving to the Midwest. And finally, my husband says, actually, you're moving to the south. It's like, Oh, okay. I said, Well, at least at least I'll have a coast and he's like, it's not on the coast. It's on ocean. I'm like, Okay, I have no idea where I'm living. So you asked me, where am i right now? I can answer this. I am in Fayetteville, Arkansas, it is in the south in the middle of the United States.

Paul Barnett 01:21

Hillary, that is the best answer we've ever had to that question. Thank you very much for that. Valerie, I'm very excited to talk to you because you've had this amazing journey as a coach, and we're gonna get into your TED Talk later on, which has been hugely successful all around the world, and actually how we came to meet you, but maybe I could just start by going through some of the names of the great coaches that you've had firsthand experience with. I can see there's Jim Stevenson, Jerry Tomlinson Sue inquest, of course. And, and, of course, the legendary john wooden. So I wanted to start by asking you, what is it you think these great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?

Valorie Kondos Field 02:03

Okay, another great question, Paul, because I'm actually teaching a graduate course at UCLA in transformative coaching and leadership. And every week, for 10 weeks, we're studying a different successful coach. So we study Coach Wooden yesterday, Phil Jackson, next week, bobby knight Pat summit, Su Enquist, whom you mentioned and the things that set the coaches apart. I, as you mentioned, I was very, very fortunate to have a close relationship, actually mentorship with the great john wooden. And let me start with the commonalities that I've noticed. commonalities are a passion for continuing for growth mindset, all of the coaches that we've studied them in the class that I'm teaching, all of the coaches who I had the great fortune of being mentored by, they all had a growth mindset. They all we're readers, not just have athletics books, or leadership books, but all types of books, they all have are meticulous with understanding what a healthy culture and foundation looks like under their leadership. They have pure clear understanding of what the non negotiables are within their programme. And it's not, I found that it's not the why that is different. They all coach for the same reason, but it's how they get there that is different. So bobby knight, who yelled and screamed and swore, and he's famous for throwing the chair across the basketball court was almost as successful as john wooden, but their personalities and how they went about doing it or night and day. So personally, I gravitated toward people who enjoyed learning from all aspects of life and brought that into their coaching philosophy.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 04:07

Before we get into your coaching philosophy, I'd like to ask if there was someone who ignited an interest in coaching in you because you were going down a different path in life. You were a ballet dancer. He retired at the ripe old age of 22.

04:25

Right?

Paul Barnett 04:26

I, all of a sudden, you're this UCLA coach.

Valorie Kondos Field 04:30

I[PB2] never thought to coach I never aspired to be a coach. I wanted to be a journalist. As you mentioned, I was a ballet dancer and I was I got brought to UCLA to be their dance coach and choreographer when I was 22 years old. And I quit dancing and got my degree in history and was going to be a journalist. And I was called into the athletic director's office after I graduated and she said, we're going to make a change with the head coaching position and we would like for you to be the Head Coach. I thought I laughed out loud immediately. She said I was catatonic for about a full minute. Then I laughed out loud and reminded her I don't know the first thing about gymnastics. I've never had a gymnastics lesson. I've never done a cartwheel. And it's UCLA. It's one of the most prominent programmes in the country, let alone the world. What do I know. And she literally looked at me and said, I've observed how you've worked with the athletes because I was the assistant coach. And basically, I was a dance coach, choreographer, she said, I like how you are firm, but compassionate with them. And I have full faith that you will figure the rest out. And so at that point, I was I was 29, I had not met Coach Wooden, I had not studied Coach Wooden. And yet, looking back on my career, and the things that really helped me figure it out how to be a good leader, was my work ethic. I love to work hard. I love figuring things out. And enthusiasm. I absolutely believe in infusing joy into everything you do. And joy is not happy, haha, Joy is like getting the dirt hard work, feel great about yourself, leave it all in the gym that day, or be able to go home at night, just emotionally physically mentally spent. That is joy. And when I looked at those two things, and then later on, Paul, when I did study, Coach Wooden, and I did study his pyramid of success, enthusiasm, and industriousness are the cornerstones of his pyramid, hard work, and attitude. And that's what I had been bringing all along. That's how I started to figure out how to coach.

Paul Barnett 06:57

Well, it's great that the Athletics Director saw that in you. But success didn't come overnight. Because in 91, you become actually the head coach you promoted. Right? But it takes a while for success to come. Because it's not till 1997 that the team wins the first NCAA championship, but then goes on to win in 2000 2001 2003 2004 2010 2018. There's a long run of success. But I'd like to go back to those first six years when you're a head coach. And I'd like to ask you, there was no championship then. But you must have been learning and gaining energy from the experience enough so that it fueled your later results.

Valorie Kondos Field 07:40

Yes, I was gaining a lot of experience, honestly of what not to do. I really, I wish I could go back to my first few years of being the head coach and coach those athletes again. Because I was just learning and flying by the seat of my pants to figure all this out. And they they were like the guinea pigs, they bore the brunt of it. They were super talented because we were UCLA and we could recruit. But I didn't have a really strong, I didn't have a foundation at all. I mean, I grew up in the world of dance. I didn't know what a healthy athletic culture should look like. So my early years as a head coach, I did the only thing that I thought was prudent to do and I studied, literally mimicked other head coaches. And so take yourself back to the 80s where the majority of really successful coaches were dictatorial, tough minded, tough talking my way of the highway broom, bullish one step down from being a military training. And I figured, well, in my mind, that's what a coach was. And so I mimicked all i postured, honestly, as a head coach, because I didn't know what else to do. And it was about three years into my head coaching, miserable career that the team asked me for a team meeting. And I got very excited because I love team meetings. And for two solid hours, they gave me examples of how my, especially my sarcasm, and my my snarky wit, wasn't funny. I thought it was funny. They didn't think it was funny. In fact, they said it was hurtful and demeaning. And I was just gutted. Because my intention in life has never been to hurt another human being. And so in that instance, I knew I had a crossroads and I could continue to mimic and and coach how I had I'm the leader, you don't like it, go find another team to be on. Or I could change and I chose to change but I didn't really know how I was going to change and, or what I should change to and this is the beautiful part of story. I was thinking about resigning, and going and doing something that I knew that I would be successful at. And honestly, I remember thinking somebody else should have this job that actually knows what they're doing with athletics. And I was walking through the student store and I happened upon exactly that book, Coach Wooden's book on leadership, and it magically opened up to his definition of success. And I read successes, peace of mind, which is a direct result knowing you have done your best. And I thought this was absurd, because in athletics, success is winning. coaches are hired to win. We're not hired to be mentors, teach life lessons, be their best friends, we're here to win. So I thought that coach Wooden's definition was kind of like a nice little hover card. And there must be more to his definition. later on. I kept thumbing through the chapter. No, that was as complicated as it gets. Success is peace of mind. And knowing that you have done your best, I must have read that thing over and over and over 2030 times, thankfully, because the word view, you got bigger and bolder and brighter, every time I read it, success is peace of mind and knowing you have done your best, I had been trying to be other people, I had been trying to mimic other head coaches. And in that instance, I just recognise that whenever you try to be somebody else, you will always fall short of being great. Because you will never be as good at them being them as they are at being them. And the worst thing that happens is it prevents you from becoming a first rate view[PB3] . So all of you that are listening to this out there that scroll social media constantly and compare yourself to these beautiful lives. Supposedly everybody has has Stop it. Stop comparing yourself to them. Hey, that's a fallacy without their and B, you will never be as good as Kim Kardashian isn't being Kim Kardashian is that she is. So the world doesn't need another Kim Kardashian, the world needs you to be as uniquely brilliant as you can be[PB4] . So I went back to my office, I didn't resign. I thought about what I brought to the table, a lot of what I learned growing up in the world of ballet and translated to artistic gymnastics, so I knew that there was a part of it that I could actually coach. And then the biggest part of what I took time to figure out was my why. Thank you, Simon Sinek for asking us all to figure out our why. But I didn't know Simon said back then. But I remember thinking, why is sport important in life? And why would I think that I could actually be a coach that it was like so clear to me. Because I did not grow up in this world of winning. I didn't grow up with bragging rights, you know, on stage by Haha, we beat you doesn't have that the theatre. So I didn't have that DNA in me. Although I'm very competitive. I think most humans are. But I didn't have this win at all cost mentality. So why were we gonna do athletics if obviously, athletics is a masterclass in teaching really, really,

13:33

really

Valorie Kondos Field 13:33

tough life lessons that one does not learn in the classroom. Okay, major aha moment, my job, my why I am going to come in every day, and figure out how to fortify these young women that are under my care into becoming champions in life that are go out in the world and make the world a better place. I am going to develop champions in life through sport. And as I said, because we were at UCLA, and I couldn't recruit talent. I knew that if I fortify these young, amazing humans into literally the superheroes through the sport of gymnastics, I knew that mentality and that competitiveness, and that champion mentality would translate to the competition floor. And it did. And that's when we started quote, unquote, winning.[PB5]

Paul Barnett 14:26

I love this idea of not all winning, being success. It's the foundation of your of your TED Talk has been watched over 3 million times. And we will put the link to it in the show notes so that more people can experience it. And I can see clearly now how the genesis of that Ted Talk links to that moment when you discovered john wooden man his definition of success, but I'd like to ask you a slightly different question because he's all winning success question mark. And then when you give the speech you pause and I am Imagine there's a lot of people that jump in and say, Well, yes. All winning is success. I wanted to ask you how you respond to those people that insist that all winning is success.

Valorie Kondos Field 15:15

That's the part of what I've learned, and what I feel that my coaches and teachers parents need to continue to have a growth mindset and continue to learn. We cannot ignore the statistics, we cannot ignore the research that has been done, that has shown us that our youth is suffering from depression, anxiety, stress, on levels that we've never seen before, our suicide rates amongst our youth have skyrocketed. And so when you think about why, it's because of the pressure that we put on them, it's not their fault. It's the pressure that we put on them. It's the pressure that parents put on them[PB6] . I there's a section in my TED Talk where I talk about so funny, Paul, there's a part of my TED Talk where I say, my parents asked yourself, what are you more interested in helping your child develop into a champion, or winning? Because if you're only focused on winning, then it's really about you and your ego, and your bragging rights? And so my TED talk, I say, I mean, you'll know very quickly if, if you were interested in winning, or developing champion by the questions you ask in the car ride home, because the research has also proven that kids decide to quit their sport, most of the time on the car ride home, because they're in this sequestered little box with their parents that they can't get away from the bombardment questions. Are you asking your child did you win? How many points did you score? Did you get an A? Or are you asking questions about the experience? What did you learn today? How did you help a teammate out today? Did you figure out how to have fun at that thing that you really don't like to do, which you shouldn't assume that conditioning for athletes, because you figure out how to have fun doing that. And at the end of my TED talk, I had a woman come up to me, she was adorable. And she was Asian. She said, okay, Miss Val, as you can tell, I am a typical Tiger Mom, what they say is a tiger mom. So when you were asking me do I ask my child, if you've got an A or how many points? I was shaking my head? Yes, it's so proud of myself until you gave me the alternative. But I realised, oh, I'm focusing on the wrong thing. I was so impressed with her humility and vulnerability and her sense of humour and being able to laugh at herself to say, I really learned something today. Thank you. So yes, it is we need it. We all need to give ourselves a timeout. And think about what does success really look like? Because winning is really fun and athletics. That's what you strive to do. That's what you got to figure out how to do that better how to win, because that's the fun part. And that's the challenge. But it's how you go about winning. That's the important part.[PB7]

Paul Barnett 18:16

I'd like to ask you a little bit about that. How actually, because I've got this amazing quote from you, Valerie, and I'd like to read it to you actually, before I keep the question. And it says, in a sport as subjective as gymnastics, it's important to have an honest internal voice that knows when you've done your best, even if your score says you didn't win. And conversely, knowing when you can push harder, even if you score says you are the champion. And that inner voice is known as integrity. It's vital in living life to its fullest, and enjoying the journey in every aspect of life, or just loved it. And I wanted to ask you a very open ended question around how do you help athletes find a more honest internal voice

Valorie Kondos Field 19:03

by providing a safe space for open dialogue and conversation, for explaining to them that when they come in to school, their glass is already filled with their trust, like, you don't have to earn my trust. As a freshman, you've already got it, because I recruited you. Within that understanding, you're gonna screw up and I'm going to screw up. But the important part is for us to be able to have the safe space to realise that to be able to sincerely apologise and to figure out how to move forward because I found it especially important working with gymnasts, because our sport is based on perfection. And perfection doesn't exist. And so when you talk about the concept of grace and being able to get Have someone else grace in that safe space to be able to screw up, but not destroy the relationship, you need to start by giving yourself grace. And by being able to model what that looks like, to your student athletes, and I feel like that's one of the biggest mistakes that especially young leaders make. And I certainly did this when I took over as the head coach is they think that they are supposed to have all the answers and know everything. And that's when your ego takes over. And that's when you get in trouble. Versus I now believe that the strongest leaders, most impactful leaders are those who model behaviour that they are hoping to instil in the student athletes who may lead. And that modelling of behaviour includes the most important parts of showing your vulnerable side, your humble side, your empathetic side. And the biggest part of a safe space that I found to create with our athletes was when they started talking, to literally shut up and listen. And that's a skill that we all need to continue to work on to develop. Because most of the time when someone else is talking, we're trying to figure out what our next statement is going to be. And we're not listening. And this is really cool. When you spell out the word listen. And you rearrange the letters, misspell silent. neck. Cool. So I know it's really cool. So in order,[PB8]

Paul Barnett 21:48

don't want to say anything now. You're talking about being solid. So same thing. Sorry, Valerie.

Valorie Kondos Field 21:54

No, no, it's great. No, it is because I saw I saw her I saw. I was like I love it when speaking engagements. And I've got hundreds of people out guys, I get this and they go, Ah, like there's this big, collective gasp. But I love it because you truly are not listening unless you practice silencing your mind. That is, I believe one of the greatest gifts that we can give someone and especially our youth or children, you don't have to agree with what they're telling you. Just let them talk without you butting in and without that me butting in without me correcting them. Or without me saying no, you're seeing this the wrong way. Just give someone the gift of listening. [PB9] I think I didn't even answer your question because I just went off on this tangent. I'm sorry.

Paul Barnett 22:51

Hillary, it was a great answer. Please don't apologise. It was wonderful. I think the whole idea of listen and silent being joined through an anagram is fantastic. So thank you for that. I want to talk about gifts though. That was the last thing you mentioned. Because I saw an interview with you on Good Morning America was one of your athletes. Katelyn Ohashi, I hope I'm pronouncing her name correctly. And what was really interesting was that she credited you with helping her find joy in the sport again. So you'd given this gift. she'd lost it. And you'd given it back to her. The routine that led to you being featured on Good Morning America, I looked at it, hundreds of millions of times it's been viewed was a very big number. When did you learn about the power of joy as a coach?

Valorie Kondos Field 23:43

Gosh, I believe I learned about the power of joy. bringing it into my coaching. When I started realising it was important to to develop relationships with my athletes is when the joy started being infused. And I'm not saying relationship as we're best friends as we go out to lunch and shopping. That's for their friends to do. I'm talking about the relationship of I know them more than just as an athlete.[PB10] Because I've taken the time and I'll use Katelyn Ohashi as an example, I have taken the time to get to know them, their interests, what their family life is like, what was it like before they came to UCLA? What hardships did they grow, go through and sharing some of mine as well. And the way I did that was I made an intentional decision to only talk about gymnastics in the gym. So if we were in my office, and I was asking them an open ended question, How you doing today 99.9% of the time the student athlete would respond about how she did in the gym. And I would say if you want to talk about gymnastics, that's fine. I'll talk about it. That's not what I asked you, but I asked you about you. How are you as a human and you The more of those relationships developed in that sense, the more trust between the athlete and me there was. So when there was friction, when there was a disagreement, we, there was still this foundation of a relationship and trust, which is the biggest part of relationship. And that's when I was able to help the athlete infuse joy into the process of learning. [PB11] And I remember Caitlin saying to me, I don't like gymnastics anymore. I just hate gymnastics. And I said, Well, you don't have to love gymnastics. But do you love being with your teammates? Yep. That you love working out? Yeah. Do you love that challenge? Yeah, okay, great. That's all gymnastics is. And she was bringing her previous history of gymnastics to what she was doing now in college. And I said, Kate, just come in the gym, and we're gonna make it great, you're going to have fun, you're going to be training with your teammates, I'm going to give you a challenge every day, because she's got this competitive heart. And it's gonna be really fun. And guess what you get your workout in, because you'd be working out anyway. So this will be fun. And that's when the joy started in folding into our training into the assignments that we would give the student athletes every day, we would, because gymnastics is not head to head competition. But all athletes have a competitive heart. So we would do something really competitive with them every single day, even if it was silly, like, how many full turns Can you make on balance being without wobbling? It didn't matter what it was. They just want to compete. And I'm going to switch a little bit here and I'm going to name drop in a really big way, Paul, I had a wonderful one on one conversation for about an hour with Kobe Bryant. And the majority of the talk Actually, he started by saying he he said Miss Belle, I don't know whether to thank you or to be mad at you because my daughters have Caitlin Ohashi is flirty, like automatic replay in our house. And he says we literally watched it probably 1000 times. And that switched to us discussing how important it is to infuse joy in the process of learning. And Coby I mean, we were just so on the same track. But understanding that joy is not being happy. Joy is something internal that comes from you doing your absolute best at something. And he said to me, says you miss Val, joy for me was getting up every morning at 430. And putting in two extra workouts before the team ever showed up. Because I got so filled up with joy and pride, that it really didn't even matter if we lost a game or next game, that nobody can take that away from you. And he says that's my pride in a job well done, is what filled me with joy that I was able to bring to everything I did in life.[PB12]

Paul Barnett 28:14

There's this wonderful, recurring theme in your life, which is around gratitude. It comes also through in the positivity that you bring to this conversation to the meteor interviews I see with you, but also your writing and the way you talk about life. Even in this discussion, we haven't touched on your battle with cancer. But I know that you reframed it to be I've got cancer while he's Me too, hey, I get to go to chemotherapy and beat this thing, which I thought was was wonderful. But also you talked earlier about the intervention your athletes had when they gave you feedback. But again, you reframed it, and you were grateful for it. And so there's this real theme and everything I've read on resilience, gratitude is at the centre of developing more resilient people. But what I wanted to ask you was probably just something as simple as what advice do you have for others on embracing the power of gratitude and bringing it into their own leadership style?

Valorie Kondos Field 29:13

Well, thankfully, we have the research that shows us how the brain reacts to when we intentionally think thoughts of gratitude, and the brain creates dopamine and it makes us feel like we are happy. And as you mentioned, Paul, when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I was told, if I chose to get chemotherapy for a year, they knew it would work in that. Second, I switched my thoughts from I don't have to get chemotherapy, I don't have to get chemotherapy, I get to get chemotherapy, because I actually live in a time that has the chemo and that's where as you referenced I called it I was so excited to get chemotherapy. I called to go to my chemo spa because a spa someplace you got to get better every doctor I've had, has said, we really wish we could quantify the power of gratitude in the mind. Because I sailed through chemo, I sailed through four surgeries. There. Obviously, there were times where I didn't feel great. But I never lost the gratitude for the fact that I get to have this poison shot through my veins, that's going to give me more days. This is so cool, because I want more days to live and switching then that one word have to get to has changed every moment of my life. Since then, especially this last year, I didn't have to be quarantined. I told myself constantly, I get to be quarantined, because I actually couldn't afford to own a home. And I don't have to get a vaccine shot I get to because I live in a country that has an opportunity to get in the vaccine. And when you really live in consistent gratitude, you then shed all of the emotions, the emotions that weigh you down, and weigh your relationships down. There's no space for them in your brain. When you're living in gratitude, there's no space to hold a grudge against someone, there's no space to hold it anger, which does none of us any good. When you're living in gratitude, your brain cannot think of two opposing thoughts at the exact same time. You can ping pong, from gratitude to pity party gratitude, pity party, but you can't do it same time. So choose one. And that's the one thing that I wanted. My my student athletes to get in the time that they were with me is they only learned one thing is to understand that life is about choice. The choices that we make dictate the life we live. And every single choice that I make starts with my thoughts. And unless you have a mental disability, you are able to control and choose your thoughts. Your thoughts will then produce emotions, your emotions will produce actions, every single action is going to have numerous repercussions. That's going to determine the type of life you live. And the reason why I felt this was so important for my student athletes to grasp is because as soon as you take control of your mind, and therefore your actions, you can no longer live as a victim in life. So when life hands you stuff that's really hard adversity, you don't go into pity party mode, you take a deep breath, and you go, Okay, I got this, what's gonna be my best next step. And then you live your life that way. And I find that it's just a far more enriched way to live, then fueling the negative.[PB13]

Paul Barnett 33:00

These are hard worn wisdoms, because I understand growing up, there wasn't necessarily this positivity, always around you was something that you had to develop and build within yourself. And it's had a ripple effect as you've gone on and had a wonderful, long career as a coach, as he says, You've recently retired from but there has been some controversies along the way. I don't particularly want to go over them. I think there's been enough that you've said about them and others. But I would like to talk about a quote I saw from you in mid 2020, in relation to some of those controversies. And you said, and I'm going to read this quote, again, because I think it's a Ripper. He said, I wish all of my athletes could have been led by the coach, I was the last 10 years of my career. And I wanted to talk to you about the choice you made to continue putting yourself out there as a coach, after you'd had this realisation, knowing that you were in perfect in a sport that prizes perfection, you kept going. And I wanted to know what is this taught you about persevering and evolving? Even though you knew there was mistakes behind you?

Valorie Kondos Field 34:06

Well, sadly, we live in a time where pasche kancil culture, right? I mean, people are dragging up things that you have said or done 2030 years ago. And what I want to say to all of those people are can we examine your life as well, if we're going to be examining all these other people are examining me we examine yours, because if you've not, if you're like as wonderful you are, as we're right now 30 years ago, wow. Good for you. I have enjoyed. As I said, the important part of being a coach is modelling the behaviour of how you want the people under you to receive or to act, and I have enjoyed being able to put myself out there and say, Oh my gosh, I did this wrong. I did that wrong, even even things like weighing our athletes, putting them on a scale once A week, oh my gosh, I would never in a million years do that now. That's what we thought we were supposed to be doing. And so I feel like not only do I wish the student athletes had me when the last 10 years of my career, I wish I could go back to the person that I am right now, since I've retired, since I started teaching this class, studying all these other coaches, since I've done continued to do work on myself, this since I've retired, I've had to go back and start all over again. But that's not what life is. And so, as one of my, my Greek predecessors said, Socrates said, The unexamined life is not worth living. So I think that my whole life I have not had a problem self examining, I don't get down on myself, I don't beat myself up when I realised I've done something really crappy. I'm with my student athletes I've had I have no issue apologising. In fact, I think it's a strength, I've always looked forward to the conversations where I can look them in the eye, and say, I sincerely apologise for how what I did, or what I said, made you feel that was never my intention to hurt you, and you have my sincere apology. And I think a big part of them is then talking through it with them and saying, Do you accept my apology? And what they say yes, then I go, okay. Then, as far as I'm concerned, I'm never bringing this up again, like, we do not need to go over why? Whatever you did, that got me so upset to tell you what I said, I will, we don't ever need to revisit that again. Because I accept your apology to so how cool is that? Let's move forward. And I think that's a big, big part of what we're missing right now. And I really do hope that especially the celebrities are speaking out. Against cancelled culture, I feel like I really wish that people will stop and think about, think before they put something out there on social media. Because there's not a human being that's walking on the face of the earth is perfect. And I don't want to start having to pretend like I was or that I am.[PB14]

37:27

I never will be.

Valorie Kondos Field 37:29

I can say that. This is like taking your question to a little bit different entity. I've never had children. But my friends who have multiple children, they're always exasperated by that one child, that seems to be the quote unquote, black sheep or something like that. And they say we parented them all the same. Why? Well, it's because we're all wired differently. And I think that that is, the hardest part of being a coach is you've got student athletes that are coming to you, especially in college, they're 18 years old, they've already lived 18 years and have all this history that they bring to the table, including all of the triggers, that you as a coach don't know about. And that's the really tricky part of being a coach is being able to figure out what the foundation of this team culture is going to look like. And then how you're going to hold the student athletes accountable, that they're off, veer away from the team roles in the team Handbook, without being demeaning, without making it personal. That's the key in holding people accountable, is making sure that you're not crossing the line to making it personal. So you have some that you feel is not working to their best ability or comes in and doesn't, doesn't do a setup to her like she's lazy. You never say you are lazy, because that makes it personal. But you do need to help hold her accountable, and say, Hey, I'm just observing what you're doing to me. It doesn't seem like you're giving the appropriate effort to get better. And then as I said, Shut up and listen, see what she answers there? She said, Yes, I am. Go, okay, I'm just letting you know what it looks like. [PB15] But going back to what I was talking about, it's just so interesting, looking back on my career, and the classes that have come in. And like 2001, I kicked one of our best competitors off the team, gentlemen. And she came back later and said that I saved her life, because I kicked her off the team. But I kicked another person on the team. And she has claimed that I've ruined her life, but they were coached the exact same way. So in my reflection upon this, I get back to what I said initially, Paul had I taken the time to develop a relationship with that person who's blamed me for their life, I think we would have had a different result. And that's one thing that I would have done differently is made it important to develop a small relationship with each student athlete get to know them as much as I can in the time that I have to get to know them as human beings[JW16] . And what athletes need to understand is the athletes that I have that I had a really great relationship with. That doesn't mean we didn't argue it doesn't mean that they didn't like me at times. Caitlin Ohashi, and I argued a lot. But they're the ones that sought me out for that relationship. They're the ones that kept stopping by my office. They're the ones that said, Hey, myself, we go to coffee. It's not like I picked and choose. I don't think coaches pick and choose favourites. I think that's a total fallacy. Because coaches are hired to win. They don't like I don't care. If somebody was not my favourite person, they're gonna go compete. They're gonna help us win. But I have had a lot of student athletes say to me after they graduated, I wish I would have had a relationship with you. Like, say Katelyn Ohashi did. And I that just dagger to my heart, because that reminds me, you know what, I should have done something more, to have a relationship with them. And I know coaches, I know that you're listening and saying we don't have enough time for that. I get it. However, what I have learned is when I took some of that time, like if you look at coach, you mentioned sewist. Earlier, sewak was one of the greatest softball coaches in the world. She talks about time as currency. And when I look at my career, what I took some of my currency, my precious currency, those precious minutes, that the gymnast could be doing extra conditioning or extra routines. When I took some of that currency, to be able to get to know her as a human being her family, her interests, her hobbies, what she doesn't like about me, where she thinks I'm going wrong, when I would take that time with that currency. As you will know, the compound effect was far greater than had I use that currency just to have them do an extra conditioning set. [PB17] I had a student athlete talked say to me one time she's a freshman. She says to me, right in the middle of balancing workout, she goes, Okay, I just have to tell you, you're really chap in my ass. I didn't know what that meant. And I thought it was like a compliment, because that was like chapstick. But like chapstick mixture clear those feel better. So I was champion for ass. I didn't get it. I looked at her team a her team. It goes now misspell that is not a compliment. It's like,

42:56

Oh, okay. So

Valorie Kondos Field 42:59

I asked the girl who said that. I said, Hey, could you stop by my office this afternoon. So we could talk about what this looks like what this means we chapping your ass. And she did. And it started off a pretty contentious conversation. But thankfully, I listened. And thankfully, I said to her, my intention is not to chop your ass, I promise. And if you think that you're gonna do better with less coaching from me. Alright, let's try that. I gotcha. I'm hearing you. No problem. Let's hopefully see how that goes.

Paul Barnett 43:32

We've never met until this interview. And I'm a little hesitant to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I think I need to give you permission to be imperfect, because that's life that's coaching. And it's the I'm gonna steal a line from my dad, if he was here, right now. He'd say, Well, he's still here. With me right now. It's a you know, it's the impurities in water that give it flavour. So this imperfection, I think, is a strength. And I think, as many athletes might have said, someone says You ruined their life. I don't know the story behind it. I don't know, the context for that comment. I'm not going to wash over it. But I will say, from afar, this whole idea of embrace what is not perfect, and carrying on regardless, that's a pretty strong message. And that's a message you pushed out over three moving times on a TED talk. And I'm sitting here in Prague in the Czech Republic and my daughters have watched it and they'll pass it on from there too. So I just wanted to learn that idea that imperfections, okay. Oh, I think it's worth I wanted to put it out there.

Valorie Kondos Field 44:41

I really do feel it is like you said it's part of our strength to be able to be vulnerable, like so I talked to you about this course that I'm teaching, transformative coaching leadership. The book that we're studying along with every coach every week is Rene Browns book dear To lead, and she talks about the power of vulnerability and vulnerability being the first step to courage. And I just, I embrace so much. My, I don't believe in the word failure. But for right now can't think of a better word, but my failures in life because it's only through the really tough times that we learn. And you can choose to grow, you don't learn a darn thing, when life is going well, you really don't. But there are years that coaching that we just sail through and won the national championship. I remember telling myself, okay, really appreciate this time, because this is a life, we have never been promised that life would be easy.[PB18] And this concept of perfection, also stems from the fact that I have a very strong faith. And so I would never, ever expect myself to be on the level of God, ever. And I am so thankful that I am forgiven for all the crappy stuff that I do every day. Some of it, I don't even know I'm doing that, that God forgives me gives me that grace, therefore, I'm gonna give it to myself. And I'm gonna give it to other people as well. When I live, the relationships that I have, that are really close, they're the ones that we've gone through adversity with, they're the ones that we've had those hard conversations with, those relationships are so much stronger than people who might have just had a fluff relationship with and never gotten into the weeds. So this, the concept of allowing yourself to be imperfect, I feel as a coach is one of your greatest strengths. Because as soon as you make a mistake, and huddle your team up, and own up to it, and sincerely apologise, and then discuss how we're going to move forward. I can guarantee you, your credibility with your athletes just soared through the roof.[PB19]

Paul Barnett 47:14

Valerie, one last question, if I could, I think we're close to the answer already. But I'm going to ask it anyway. You've written a great book, short down way to dance. You've talked about imperfection. We've also talked about john wooden and how his quote really became the cornerstone of your coaching approach. In the future, someone stumbles along your book puts that together with your TED talk, and your fabulous record that you've left behind. How do you hope they summarise that as the legacy that you've left as a coach?

Valorie Kondos Field 47:50

Oh, wow, I've never been asked that question. Well, first of all, my book is a really easy read. And it's basically tells how our dancer choreographer myself became one of the winningest coaches in the world of athletics. And what I would hope that people would glean from my experience, my book is that life is really fun. Life is a big, grand adventure. And when you look at life as an adventure, you realise that there are gonna be boulders thrown in your way constantly. And the fun part about life is to figure out how to get around, over or through those boulders, the left hands you and that is how I literally just crafted or as I say, choreographed My life was one choice at a time and try to figure it out. And that combined with as you keep mentioning, my TED Talk, the question that we all need to ask ourselves is, is all winning success. And when you look at when someone like life comes to an end, nobody's looking at how many championship rings they have. They're looking at the legacy that they left, when we talk about Coach Wooden. Yeah, it's really fun. He won 10 championships in 12 years. But that's not why people are in such awe and respect. In revere, john wooden, it's because of the philosophies and what he built with his pyramid of success. It's about all of the other discussions that he's having his main books. And Paul, you said earlier, it took me seven years to win our first championship, guess what it took Coach Wooden 15 and in today's culture, where we're winning, I mean, literally, you're, you get two to three years to prove yourselves as a coach, if not your part like we wouldn't ever have Coach Wooden today, if it took him 15 years to win a championship. So I would help it from my legacy. I hope my legacy is don't ever put yourself in a box. Don't I'm not gonna say think outside the box because there should not be a box. I don't believe in labels, because I think that that stifles us from our growth and whatever life presents you look at as a gift, and then figure out how to be grateful for this challenge. And then how to, to, to move past the challenge or accept the challenge. And I promise you, if you look at life, that way, you're gonna have a really fun life.[PB20]

Paul Barnett 50:36

Gratitude, perseverance, challenge and fun. That's a pretty good legacy. So, Valerie, thank you so much for the time you've spent with us today. It's been a really touching conversation. I've enjoyed it immensely, and I look forward to sharing it with a much broader audience.

Valorie Kondos Field 50:54

Thank you so much, Paul. Thank you, all of you who are listening. Let's all choose Pinky swear promise that we're going to go out into the world and make it a better a better world. One data time,

51:04

Pinky promise.