Ep54 Alan Smith (interview edit)

Thu, 6/3 8:58AM • 38:49

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

players, coach, people, coaching, mentor, bit, talk, southgate, train, football, wimbledon, gave, kevin keegan, alan, preseason, chartered surveyor, group, o'clock, called, won

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Alan Smith

Paul Barnett 00:00

So Alan Smith Good morning, and welcome to the great coaches podcast. Well in Paul, lovely to be here, we're lovely to have you to talk a little bit of football or as we call it in Australia soccer. But can I start with a really simple question now? And where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far today?

Alan Smith 00:20

Well, I'm based in about 11 miles outside of London. I've done my sort of country walk. And after we finished the day, I'm gonna have a quick train journey out to London. And I'm going to walk along the embankment is about five miles, but boy is a marvelous walk in be stopped in the Tower of London. And I end up about the house of the Parliament cut through to the changing of the guard, which finishes about four o'clock. So that's going to be my day. I'm a massive fallen fan. So I've got to get to a television sometime to watch that Crystal Palace template on Monday. So it's a combination today of sport, fresh air. And, you know, just getting out of, you know, seeing whether we're getting out of this lockdown a little bit.

Paul Barnett 01:11

And it sounds fantastic. So I want to start by saying thanks for giving us a little bit of your time, before you head off on an adventure that I'm very envious of being locked down here in Prague. But, Ellen, I'd like to start if I could, just by talking about some of the great coaches you've had experienced, as I've heard interviews where you've talked about the admiration you've got for Dave Sexton and Dario gradi. But you've also had first hand experience with people like Ellen Mallory Steve Coppell, Martin O'Neill, Kevin Keegan. So just an easy question to begin with. What do you think the great coaches do differently?

Alan Smith 01:47

I think I've got all those people you've named are actually quite big name players. And that doesn't funny in that for make a good coach. I've worked with some so called big names, who still talk about this self. And if you're a coach, you can't really do that. It's about the player and the people you're looking after. And I'd say the majority of those people got that, you know, they understood Steve Coppell and Kevin Keegan, in particular, are good at understanding the changing room, the mood, you can't just go out and turn up on nine o'clock on Monday and say, I'm going to coach ABC, you've got to get the mood of the group. And you've got to realize they're all different individuals[PB1] . So I'd say out of that group, you just mentioned certainly, Keegan, Martin and Neil Steve Coppell I worked with for eight years, they understood that the changing room, and what what was good on a particular day, don't as a coach, have a have a short term and a long term plan, but be prepared to water it. And I think all of those guys could do that they could get in the mind of the player.

Paul Barnett 03:05

So I would like to just pick up on that, actually, because getting into the mind of the player is not an easy thing, particularly when players have got self doubt. Or they're being disruptive. How have you found the best ways of, of actually penetrating that exterior and getting into the mind of an athlete?

Alan Smith 03:25

Well, I think quite often we find in sport, and in life, really, the most talented people actually take a little bit more handling different than if you take it in people like cricket, and you go back to the boat, the mirror, and you go into football with gasco, in an Ian light, who we had at paladium was an incredibly talented player, but he would like a spring. And you had to treat him slightly differently to other people. And I think that's the biggest what's good for one person might not be good for another. Now, I think there's certain principles, you got to keep to pull. timekeeping. I think we've all got to know that, you know, nine o'clock means nine o'clock dress code. Yeah, to a certain extent, I think, you know, if we're representing a company or a business, you know, we want people to be a little bit more uniformed at certain time. But I think we've got to appreciate that when you're dealing with players or individuals, you've got to treat everybody differently, and understand their mindset is different. [PB2] So if I'm talking to my goalkeeper Am I going to be talking to him the same as my center for probably not my goalkeeper, the more steady guy, maybe a little bit more sensitive. So as in my coaching theories, I think I much prefer those one on one one on two sessions, rather than talking at the Rule never talk at the group. I think that's a problem. So my advice or advice would be, try and pull people aside. I've collected balls on timekeeping, and made those collective or sometimes let the players make them. If it's for being late, they do the fines. They know the rules because they made[PB3]

Paul Barnett 05:22

Kevin, you left school without passing any final exams or any qualifications. But you had this deep desire to get into sport. And I'd like to ask Where did that desire come from?

Alan Smith 05:34

I think I wasn't at that time, I'm going to be good at anything else I was brought up in a rough part forum was brought up in a place called North End boat market, and you're actually pretty streetwise to live there. You know, you have to be ahead of the game in a lot of rough parts of it. And my whole life was bought out by the fire at the age of five going to film football club watching it. Every night, I trained in the film Recreation Ground, which was up the road to where I lived, only playing street football. At that time, all I wanted to do was play football, I had no real edge education, and a really good PT master score, who was connected with Wimbledon football club. So my passion was to get into football. And it wasn't till I got into my late 20s that I realized I needed another qualification. And I actually work for a company that was owned by the chairman of Wimbledon Football Club, it's a big furnace. And I call it find it the chances surveyor. And so I've gone from having no education to studying quite a lot, because I've had a car crash, which will totally my fault. And so I but I never wanted anybody to know, I was a chartered surveyor. And if you think about it, Paul, I mean, I played against or I managed against Alex Ferguson on six or seven occasions. And normally, you know, that's as tough as it gets, you know, how does the management cancel out, have jumped in the crowd. But the point I'm gonna make is you can't go into the players at halftime looking to help against Manchester United. And say, guys, I can sort this out. I'm a chartered surveyor, don't worry. I sort of shelved it really, you know, I really did not want to go back to the academic route. And, you know, it got to the stage. When I got to that 55 I decided to come out. I've got right, I'm coming out. I'm a janitor. So I use that every so often. But again, I think when I'm looking after players, I don't want them to be as one dimensional as that I want them to think outside the box and think you're not always going to be a sportsman you're not always going to be a footballer. You know, what else can I do? And you know, some of the people I deal with now, actually, a very good off the field and you know, can have some grown up conversations.[PB4]

Paul Barnett 08:10

Well, your first two coaching positions, were actually with non league teams Wimbledon in Delhi champion. And I read where you were reflecting on his experience and he said, quote, I never thought it would prepare me for managing in the Premier League, but it actually did. What was it about those first experiences that did? at the highest level?

Alan Smith 08:30

I was so lucky. Out of all the famous people I've worked with. My first coaching job was at Wimbledon with a guy called Alan Baxter and Paul he was absolutely brilliant. He was a tough as nails. He used to go absolutely ballistic in the changing room. But he was all Goliath, he had a structure. And what he believed in was fitness water. You know, we used to train ridiculous out. And without him, I really wouldn't have become what I did in the end. I mean, when we went to medium, I lost his car keys once and he absolutely went ballistic. And I denied losing them. I actually had him in my my garden in my house. I lived in a little terrorist house, because he was that frightening. He was an off the field. He was very polite, very articulate, very passion. And when we went to the cup final in 1990 rG assistant management I wrote him a note saying if it wasn't for you, I'd never be here. You were the biggest influence I've had. PS your car keys are in 101 manner way Mitchum if you want to get around that. So again, I just got back from Bali. So that was really good for me that experience I've worked with Dave Bassett, who went on to who was a player but went on to be a coach. And then I went to Bellingham when I was 29 you know what did I know about coaching? I'd Dan all my coaching badges I had to pay for myself, I didn't have anybody subsidizing me, I didn't have a club. But over that four years, I learned how to manage players how to organize coaching sessions. And in my first year, they won the championship. And what I love about it most of all, is that every one of those players, Baldwin, a guy called Rodney Brooks is still alive. We still meet up two or three times a year and have a beer. And we're on WhatsApp groups together. And I'm really proud of the fact that I coached them and managed them. It's a very famous model League club in in London, that, you know, we all meet together, all of us, and we're good friends, money, you know, I gave them a hard time when I was 29, I can remember that. You know, I was like, I don't know, the cross between Brian platformed, Malka, Madison, which is a little bit embarrassing to say. But they, they were really good. And I think that is another thing about coaching. You bond with people, that's what you're there for, as the coach, you're not there to be a dictator, you're not there to be. It's all about you. And so again, I learned through that experience without my humility. And my ego at that time, as you know, maybe it wasn't a lot of my ego was quite big. So I learned again, to temper that as I took the next stage.[PB5]

Paul Barnett 11:31

There's a great theme, Elon that runs through your life, or at least all the research and articles I read about you. And it's your passion for player development. And you know, there's another great quote where I've got from you and you say, I didn't just look for people to be good at football, I wanted decent guys to your goal was that if you didn't make it in football, then go back into science society and do well. But I imagine at the time, that idea was not very common. So how did you develop that philosophy?

Alan Smith 12:01

Well, I think as I always say, as a football manager, you're judged on on one thing, and one thing only do you win? Or do you lose? People just remember managers for winning and losing mentalities about managers and managers, as a coach, you're there for development, the winning, and losing shouldn't be the end all and Beall. [PB6] And when I joined Crystal Palace in 1984, the US system had been scrapped, you know, I'd forget out of that. They had another use system for two years. And I found this whole deflated group of young kids of 16 and 17, not knowing where they were going, not worrying what they were going to do. And I had to lift them in and say, Look, there's, even if we don't succeed as a footballer, we get to be decent human beings. And when I look back, I don't look back too much, or there's too much to enjoy in life, that there is guide on and there's always new challenges with wanting to either mentor other people. But I do think that, you know, the players, then I look back at all the old team photographs, and I can never find a bad, somebody I didn't get on with or that I didn't respect and that true 8485 and then began to imagine 90 of the cap fine on the championship. All of them, if I bumped into them industry have turned out really decent guys. The lovely thing is if you take players at a young age, you can develop them. If you inherit people of 2829, you can still do that. And I didn't manage to do it. But it's much more difficult. So, you know, if you go in as a youth team coach, you have a real big influence on that person's where he's going to go out and you know, I know one or two lads that I've coached now, very good solicitors in the city, a couple of men to accountancy, and they saw the bigger picture. But if you're a coach, as a generalization, you're not very well paid. Wherever you coach, they will do it for the love. Some of the people you've interviewed in the past you, you start off so you've got to really give people a bit more than just saying there's a ball kick it from A to B.[PB7]

Paul Barnett 14:27

in your first year Adela chills. You said a minute ago you win the championship. And then the same thing happens when you're the first year as the head coach of Crystal Palace, lightning strike twice. Was there something similar in both of these instances? Was there a thing you did at the start of the season that drove those results?

Alan Smith 14:46

Well, I think in both teams, although they are totally different. I had good players. That's the key. selection is key when you're choosing people to work in an office in order to work around the place you've got I actually just have somebody that's on the same wavelength as you can buy into your ideas. [PB8] And they're both damaged pallets I had that. I was incredibly strict on preseason. We always had a tough preceded damage, we couldn't afford it. Or we will go to a holiday camp and go to about things for a week and train in place after a week of their, their jobs. And pallets be spent most of our time. I don't want to do a preseason in Portugal. We do what 10 days in an army barracks, which port is a killer. Even for me, it was a killer. And I say that bugle going off at five o'clock in the morning. And we train the Grenadier Guards up, I cater and we did that for a week. And it's a bit like a hot cold shower. We do that for a week. And then we got to Portugal to the Algarve for 10 days. And I always thought that set my pattern for this for the season. Fitness if we had a good preseason, if I go back to when I was the assistant manager, we had one preseason when we went to South Africa, just after apartheid, and our our host with a guy called Johnny Bernie's ex Platt player of pallets, lovely, lovely man, you know, garius and great character, but he loved the bride love going out every night on the beer and having a why. And that is not a good preseason. Trust me if you think it is, but it isn't. And it's very difficult being the first white team to go to South Africa to stop their hospitality. Whereas when I did the Portugal trips, and the army captain was very disciplined, you know, we, we got up at six o'clock in the morning to train we get to rest. And so I think looking back, that was I think preparation is key, you don't just jump into the game. And I really sort of put great emphasis on from the day we were back, it had to be bright. Everybody has to be bright. I had to change the diet, some players because again, I just built up a mirror where you finish training your pie on match. Sunday, I'm trying to educate people, well, let's add pasta, let's add more water. You know, and that was very much against what the English it theory was about as a football. And, you know, if you look at some of the great Manchester United players, you know, they just went out and play they would, you know, Arsenal under George Graham, you know, the players would go out drinking two or three times, but that culture, we had some changes, but it was very difficult.

Paul Barnett 17:46

one of your most famous players is of course, Gareth Southgate. And he writes about his experience with you in his book. And then you prefer he ends that ends, that those couple of pages where he talks about you with the advice to, to find a mentor, a person that can be there for you when you need guidance. And it must be so rewarding and wonderful to have someone of gather stature. Talk about you so, so warmly, and with such fond memories, but I'd like to ask, Who were the mentors that helped you as a coach when you were moving along?

Alan Smith 18:24

Well, I really, if I'm honest, have anybody have any great statute? People were much more ruthless in that that period. It wasn't. People saw that as a weakness. If your advisor said when I was being born as a coach. I want you know, I want a mentor. I think people will thought that was quite strange. You know, we were very much out. We were very much out there. And I realized, you know, girls talks about it in his book, you know, people see as we are now you know, they see you there. They see me they see Jim, they see the self confidence we seem to have, but actually, there's a lot of self doubt in all of us. And I must say I didn't really have anybody that mentored[PB9] . You know, my father was came to games when I was manager at college, and I'd asked dad a few things. Alan Batsford Wimbledon, I wouldn't have asked yourself that when he was two. He was a good coach, and he was a good man. But he's quite austere. So I didn't have that benefit that the only benefit I had was I would go and watch people train, I would go and watch Dave set for money with the manager at Chelsea, and pick up his habits. They had a guy who ran their reserves in called Dario gravity. comes to a lot of young players and I've watched him but I didn't really have a mentor. It was pretty much a doggy dog thing and I'd go on the coaching courses. We go to Lily shore and we go to places like that. And there'd be 500 600 coaches there. And, you know, we bought, I would have been, you know, some from big clubs, you know, from Emirates and to other clubs, it was quite amazing. So I didn't really, I must admit, I didn't have a mentor, I just went and watch people and thought, well, that's good. I'll keep that idea. I'll watch that coaching. But there weren't many that I could really talk to. And I found that coaches at the FAA, were very austere. They didn't really want to help. And it's funny years later, because I became a coach for the FAA. And I looked at one of my coaching groups one day, and all it was clear in the huddle, Mick McCarthy and a couple of other famous people. And I'm now taking this group to pass their coaching qualification. And my coaching qualification Besides, in it was quite slim Bs, and I knew all the rulebook, but the coaching balance Hamlet and Wimbledon that you've alluded to, suddenly, I've got these international players, I'm telling them out of their exams. And I went and got my food bun down, I went down to sit with them. And one of them looked at me said, No, you can't sit here and internationals own. My own garden, I picked up my plate and walked away, I felt very, you know, gardens made quite funny, because three months later, I played against one of the coaches out of managing palace, and we beat them three nil, and I couldn't go out and say, international lonely. So to answer your question, if I didn't have a mentor, that you learned that you went along, and again, that's why I think now, I have certain people that I mentor, that I don't talk about, because I think it's between me and them, and a couple of them you've interviewed in the past, you know that I can see the need for it. But then it was seen as a weakness. It was, Oh, yeah, well, you have to go now somebody and gala fever. Now, you know, if I spoke to him yesterday, but normally I try and keep off of football matters. I think there's enough people saying to gather Southgate and center managers, why didn't you put him right back? Why didn't you put him at leper, they want to actually talk about something else about their presentation, or how they should deal with an off the field situation, which is much more important.

Paul Barnett 22:34

One of the great ideas, Elon that you had, long before it became popular, was the concept of a leadership group, getting the players to take ownership of the rules, which he talked about earlier. And it just made me wonder, what would be your advice to other coaches on the importance or, or the timing of when they should step back? And really let the players take over?

Alan Smith 22:57

Well, I'm a great believer in First of all, not talking at people. I'm a great believer in making people make decisions, making them think for yourself. And that implies to the office environment. I don't think that's any different of saying people want to be included. [PB10] So I've always been a believer in a strong changing room. I learned that I think probably more from Steve Coppell, he would let the players make important decisions. I mean, we went to Liverpool once when the players didn't want to wear our club tracksuits. And he said, Alan, let them wear what they like to let them make the decision to be turned up and filled in all sorts of some added as some humor. But the players saw and made a decision. They didn't like the attraction they had. And we managed to beat Liverpool to one because it bonded the group because they made a decision. They didn't like the tracksuit, they made the decision never prepared to go there in in other, we won the game. And I wasn't overjoyed about it. Because I didn't you know, again, I didn't think gave the right attitude. And also when you've got young players coming up into the team, you don't want them doing. You know, I think you've got to curb that a little bit. But we want we want the game to Wow. And I said to Steve in the tracksuits, the ones we should have worn went missing. And I said to Steve after Well, what we're going to do, but he said, Alan, what were we given to beat Liverpool on Saturday? Would you can 1000 pounds 10,000 pounds? Probably. You said what in that case, let's forget about the tracks if they made the decision. We won the game. Let's live by it. So again, I, you know, I would put as much responsibility onto the player because you want a thinking person. I get a bit frustrated sometimes when I you know, I was quite lucky. I think Papa's in the day. We didn't Have agents. So it much easier for full of relationship with, with players and talk to them. Now, sometimes some agents, they want to take over the player, but I really don't like that I don't. If I talk to you, I want to talk to you, I want to do this, I want to, you know, we're gonna do something on social media, I want to be the one who makes a decision about it. So, you know, I think the good countries are good mentors, whether they need a whole other group of people acting for them, I don't know. But I would say to anybody put the elements on the prior. It's his body, his life, his his career, and discuss it, don't order it, discuss it.[PB11] There's plenty of times in the afternoon to to get to know each other. So that that will be my view. Anyway.

Paul Barnett 25:54

You've talked a couple of times already about the importance of the changing room. And I'd like to ask you, What experience do you have any particular routines or methods that you have on dealing with disruptive players in the changing room,

Alan Smith 26:11

get rid of them. As simple as that. Find out, I only had, in my time, one disruptive player who was an older player in 35, and stuck in his ways. He was still in that era of wanting to go out drinking at lunchtime, and I just had lots of very, very quickly. But I've never had that, you know, as a generalization. But I would say you know, cut it out very, very quickly. If it's there. Most people you can, you can talk around, and if they see your point of view, fine. But if you've got one bad apple, it was spent very, very quick. And that bad apple By the way, somebody might have a different opinion to you or want to go about something differently. It's, and I think, again, if you've got a strong group of people in your office, in your changing, they will change their self[PB12] . I found quite often. When Chris Coleman and Gavin Southgate Richard Shawn, I'm just paying the three plus, if there is a problem in the changing room on something that that had happened on the field, by the time I got into the changing room, and sorted it out, you know, they were brutal. And if somebody's done their job, or they've conceded a free kick, or they've sorted it out. And again, I found that very much, and being a state comprehensive system of pilots, the players were demanding. Again, I'll use the word bear pit, and it plays didn't perform. They knew they didn't know for Steve and I, they knew for myself, they sorted out quickly.

Paul Barnett 28:00

When you went back to full him to start up their academy. And at the time, Kevin Keegan introduced you to the club Chairman by saying you wanted the best now you got the best. That's an amazing endorsement from from one of the greats. Well,

Alan Smith 28:13

that that was, that was Kevin Born in 95. He looked at me and I never heard of you been fired within that, that, you know, you went up to the big office or Howard's sat there. We got about five secretaries. That office was grandioso. So that was his way of testing me but saying you never heard I mean, Kevin just put his arm around me and said, Do you want it in the best? Mr. Chairman, I've got it. Like Kevin was like that, if, if you upsetting won't be Tiger II and incredibly high standards in work, right is unbelievable. You know, you get the five o'clock train down from Newcastle Standard Time, be at the training ground. Very, very passionate. Whether he was always tactically aware, I wouldn't. I wouldn't know. You know, but he believed in passion and enthusiasm. And it was a great you know, for me, it was a lovely move, because I had three, you know, I've been brought up in full on levels of full fat to then go there with Fiat owning carbon key and as manager and re walking, so I played for me and played for England. You know, it was a great experience. And again, I was able to start the academy from laughing. They didn't have an academy key allowed me to go get the training ground paid for about 3 million pounds. And it was probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I had, because there's no pressure on winning games, or just developing young players to wear the full on shirt, which was for me was brilliant. As a kid stood on the terraces.

Paul Barnett 29:53

I've heard you talk about the fact that when you were at Fulham, you gave every new player assignment copy of the team's history. And it made me wonder actually, do you think a sense of history is important for the modern football coach, or even the modern player?

Alan Smith 30:10

Well, personally, I do. You know, but that's a little bit old school, I want the player to understand what he's representing who is representing friends spend a fortune on going to games and I don't think some players not all, just quite understand what it means. [PB13] football fan, you know, leaving matter a normal life I will not say the hemangioma. You know, the disappointment if people don't play and I think a should. So what we did for them was that we have something called follows history goes right back to the great Johnny Haynes and when the plan was being developed, and Kevin would sign each company to the player, he never was battlenet when there's quite a lot in the map, 200 300 and he put Kevin Do your best, etc. Right Wilkinson sign it. And I will give it to the player. And then every so often with a little form, not to embarrass them, but just to ask them. So I for me, love the shirt means everything. And that's not me being sentimental about it. I just think it's too easy for players today, it's been transit, the man that we've fallen, I've got, we've got six players on London, and not 100% that really works for you, I think you need to know the company that you work for who you're mixing with. So for me, it will be key, whether it's key for the players, again, I just make it mandatory that, you know, this is the history of our club.[PB14]

Paul Barnett 31:51

So you left fullan and you went back to Crystal Palace, because you felt there was unfinished business. But you've been quite open talking about the fact that you didn't think it was a good decision. And the chemistry wasn't right at the time. And it made me you know, just listening to you and hearing you and talk about chemistry. I wanted to ask you, what do you think the elements are of, of a good chemistry? And how would you advise someone to build one?

Alan Smith 32:18

Well, I think you've got that it doesn't come overnight. I think with chemistry. It's it's a question of you're mixing together, I believe you don't have to be the best coach in the world. In the world. If you don't get on with the other group. I think it's all understanding one's weaknesses, one strength within the group. I again, I've been very lucky with my coaching staff I've always had. [PB15] And I was very loyal when I was a coach is sort of just getting back to the palace situation. I mean, again, I was advised by Steve Cup was in college and in the wild wouldn't go back if I was you. I think it's a toxic, a toxic situation now. He'd been the manager in preseason, they'd lost all their games. And he said, I just think there's gonna be a clash in exactly right. So there was somebody that I really should have listened to, but use your phrase, I thought I'd left there in unfortunate circumstances when when, before we you know, I got the sack when we finished fall from bottom of the newly formed Premiership. We've been to Cup Semi Finals. And I felt I could pick that up, but when I went through the door, so it just goes to show to me that, you know, you have to build a chemistry, it's not gonna come overnight. It certainly wasn't going to come overnight, I paid but I'd say to, in most clubs, be patient be, you know, don't don't try and rush things. And if you don't think it's right for you don't try and attempt to change it that at that time, that was a toxic cloud is a toxic 10 months. I didn't know I didn't enjoy it. And I'm sure fans didn't enjoy it. And also, you know, I think it left a bit of a scowl on me as well, you know, I you know, I was thinking you know, if I'm gonna become like the people that are running, you know, my belief started to go out the window and then start doing things you don't really believe in that definitely the time to get out, you know, money or no money was quite, he was quite well paid for that period of pallets. You know, as far as job satisfaction, and in being involved, there wasn't but I never needed advice and I certainly look back and sort of regret that.

Paul Barnett 34:48

I have an amazing quote from you that I'd like to finish with if I could, whether you coach cricket, or your coach rugby. The principles are the same. You've got to give More than you take. And when you think about what you've given, how would you describe that in the legacy that you would like to leave?

Alan Smith 35:10

Well, I definitely go back that to be a good coach, you've got to give more than you take. It's 95%, about the player. And it's 5%, about the coach if the player not receptive, or doesn't really want to do it. We talked about gamma Southgate in earlier and about his recent book, but I never really picked out I was probably way behind many other players that we had at the time, we were just, you could see we're naturally talented. And sometimes it's very easy to latch on to the coats and and naturally talented ones and say, I want to be part of me, and I can see this guy's got to be a high flyer, The difficult thing for a coach is to get the ones that are having security, and not quite sure how good they're going to be what they can do. So I think I go back to my college days, I think my legacy there[PB16] . Yeah, we won a championship. But I've got 15 or 16 guys that I'm really close to. If I look at the palace team of 1994, we're always still very close together. And also the state coverage team of 1990. You know, we're a tight group, you see each other is no animosity, they can never say, you you use this vehicle for your own benefit. I didn't. So today, I think that, you know, no, you know, my enthusiasm for cricket. You know, I mentor a few cricket coaches. And I really sort of enjoy talking about that, or dealing with those experience. So I think I've never looked for a legacy. I've loved doing what I'm doing. I still enjoy it. I still want to be involved. But I'm bright enough now loads, know when to stand back when to step in. And don't try and make it your glory pitch. That's what I would say.

Paul Barnett 37:18

I'm going to challenge you a bit on that if I can, Alan, if we got those if I had access to those WhatsApp groups you just talked about? And I put a message out saying, What's the legacy? Everybody thinks Ellen Smith's lead? What do you think the players would say?

Alan Smith 37:36

I like to think they will say he did it for the right reasons. He never took he gave, and he gave me time. And that's the big thing in life that you you can't buy his time, you know, giving of yourself and really getting a pleasure out of that I didn't go into football coaching to to earn a fortune, and I didn't earn a fortune out of it. If I'd have done that, if I wanted that I would have stayed got another career, I would have gone into the the property world probably. But I didn't really want to do that. And I think I'd like to think that the majority of them would say, you know, he gave more than he took. He gave me time. And he and he helped me develop that that's what I would hope they would say anyway.[PB17]

Paul Barnett 38:32

Alan Smith, it's been an absolute pleasure listening to you this morning. Thank you for sharing those wonderful stories with this and a lifetime's worth of advice. I appreciate it no matter no end and wish you a Happy Saturday.

Alan Smith 38:44

Yeah, I'm a thank you Paul. It's been a pleasure and good luck to all of you.