Ep 004 - Rohan Taylor

Wed, 10/21 11:22AM • 45:01

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

athletes, coaches, coaching, people, head coach, leadership, performance, sport, training, bit, rohan, prepared, develop, team, swimming, behaviors, role, purpose, rowan, consistency

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Rohan Taylor, Ric Charlesworth, Transition, Intro, Jim Woolfrey

 

Intro  00:01

Welcome to the great coach's podcast. To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard after this is a chance you can understand the dressing you can work towards a common goal. We are all on the same team now you will focus on the fundamentals. We've gone over time and time again. great moments are born. Great opportunity.

 

Jim Woolfrey  00:36

Hi, my name is Jim Woolfrey. And you're listening to the great coach's podcast where Paul and I interview great sporting coaches to try and find ideas and coaching advice that people can apply to the teams they lead. Our great coach for this episode is Rowan Taylor. Rowan is a high performance swimming coach and the current national head coach of the Australian swimming team, the dolphins. With over 27 years experience. Rowan has influenced many great swimming talents over his time as coaching director at the number one swimming club, the head coach for swimming for Victoria and Tasmania, along with a long 10 years a national swim coach with the Australian team. Besides the openness in Rowan's answers, I found the way he explains his coaching philosophy of collaboration, commitment, communication and consistency. very insightful, and how this serves as a compass pointing his plan for Tokyo 2021. I appreciate it the way he described how he reset the culture of the number one swimming squad, with a simple act of expecting the whole squad to wear a piece of the team kit at every training session. This serve to not only create a presence on the pool deck, but more importantly act as a simple symbol to deeply reinforce to those individuals that they are part of something far greater than just themselves. And lastly, just how reflective he becomes when we discuss the mentoring of other coaches, and how he deals with managing moments of self doubt, and how He replaces that with a purpose. That also includes being just a little kinder to the critic inside your head. I really enjoyed my time with him. I hope you do too. The great coaches podcast. Roland Taylor, welcome to the podcast. We're thrilled to have you on the show. Let's kick things off with Where are you? And what have you been up to today?

 

Rohan Taylor  02:30

Well, thanks, Jim, for having me. I'm in Melbourne, at the moment in stage four lockdown, which has been an interesting experience. So my days pretty conservative. I've spent a lot of my time on on zoom meetings like this with different parts of our organization, just our normal catch ups on a Monday and been out for a walk. And yeah, pretty much that's probably it. In a nutshell. That's that's been my day.

 

Jim Woolfrey  02:58

Sounds like a great way to spend a day and I'm really grateful that you found the time to chat with me today. Rowan, you're a Melbourne born boy. But I can hit the trailing edge of an accent Where is that from?

 

Rohan Taylor  03:11

Well, I grew up in will mainly spend most of my time in California. spend a little bit of time in New Jersey from around the ages of nine to 12 and then ended up in California through to finishing till uni. And then at 25 I came back to Australia but I picked the accent up in in the states and yeah, doesn't go away. I've been back in Australia for 20 What am I now 26 years 20 Sep 2027 years, basically. But

 

Jim Woolfrey  03:41

well, I'm Germany based. And I think I have little to no chance before I pick up the local accent and I'm still terribly embarrassing myself learning the local language.

 

Rohan Taylor  03:53

Yeah, well, they say an accent up before the age of 12. Whatever accent you picked up is usually the one that stays with you.

 

Jim Woolfrey  04:00

It's been a few months now since the announcement of your appointment as the head coach of the dolphins. A big congratulations on that. The pre covid plan was to transition the head coach responsibilities of the dolphins using the Tokyo Olympics. With that delayed now to 2021. How has the transition been going?

 

Rohan Taylor  04:21

Well, thanks for your Congrats. Yeah, look, it's it's it's really it's a challenging process to go through because really only there's so many, I guess, kind of unknown at the moment in relation to operationally what we're doing right now. So the Olympics sits where it sits next year and we're comfortable where it is and the dates are set and our trials are set. So from that perspective, it's business as usual there. We work back to now it's about the athletes and the coaches getting access to training venues. Then, you know, most of them are in the pool training, which is great, but competitions aren't in place. So we're trying to work work around ensuring we've got competition, exposure for their preparation, which is really critically important. So they're real time sensitive at the moment, I think we need to have competitions in place towards the end of the year, and definitely through the beginning of the year, which will help our athletes and coaches just prepare properly. So to answer the question, I think it's just kind of, you know, we need to navigate a little bit more on it. That's why we meet regularly on a daily basis. And what are we doing now what's happening? So, as far as the Olympic campaign part of it goes, that's in place, that will definitely be affected by how the Olympics are going to look. So you know, we have a number of different scenarios that we're preparing ourselves for, but a lot of it's just around, do we stage in Australia flying to Tokyo, compete fly out? Or do we have to go to Tokyo, Japan beforehand, and those things will be determined by the IOC. And we've still got a bit of time before we find that out, but we will be prepared for whatever happens.

 

Jim Woolfrey  06:01

And what about your transition? rolling? How's that going?

 

Rohan Taylor  06:04

Yeah, well, I'm still transitioning, I'm moving up to Queensland next week of this the end of this week, I've got to do 14 days in quarantine, and then I'll be on the Gold Coast. And I'll catch up with with our exiting head coach, and we'll spend a few weeks together and then the transition for me, I have a lot more knock on wood freedom to move around and visit programs and kind of do what, what what the role traditionally holds for me, which is connecting with our people right now is virtual. So the transition for me, while I'm waiting to do that, on that I'm still taking care of the Victorian landscape, which is my primary role has been for the last few years. And with what's happening in Victoria, it's quite, you know, chaotic, in a sense, and it was not chaotic in an operational sense. Probably just people aren't allowed to do things. So I'm working with swimming Victoria and just helping them getting connected with the coaches. So I'm kind of in two minds at the moment. So yeah, I think from next week onwards, I'll be a little bit more in that other space.

 

Jim Woolfrey  07:06

You mentioned reworking training scenarios and the time sensitivities that you're now facing, with athletes working on their conditioning, using various lead up events to hit their peak at an Olympics. What has the Australian swim team's coaching staff had to do to refocus the squad now to 2021?

 

Rohan Taylor  07:25

You Yeah, I think it came, it comes in stages in like, I think the first thing we dealt with was, was not training, and what do we do so embracing a different form of training and, you know, isolation and, and that that actually was a great opportunity to kind of just refresh, I think the athletes took a really good in the coaches took a really good opportunity just to step back, particularly when we knew the Olympics are on. Now we've transitioned back into training with purpose, I think, because the Olympics are so far away, he really is now down to putting some kind of events competitions in front of the athletes and coaches to give them some purpose to just keep momentum up. So what we're finding right now is the opportunity for us is how can we create competition when not everyone can travel so we're looking at the virtual space, you know, like you compete at your pool or compete in my pool, and we'll compare it little things like that. So that's what the challenges and opportunities for the coaching staff sitting in front of us is creating some meaningful competition to build them towards our trials. And the Olympics next year.

 

Jim Woolfrey  08:32

You mentioned that you're still deeply involved in your current role with Victoria and Tasmania squad. You've also been a large part of the coaching leadership group in the Australia team for some time. And you played a key leadership role with the nano wanting swimming club. Looking back to where your coaching started, was there a person or event that set you on your coaching journey?

 

Rohan Taylor  08:54

Oh, geez. In leadership, it would probably be Bill sweetnam back in the early days when I came to Australia, so there's two pieces to it like as as far as my coaching and being a technical like in that X's and O's coaching space and having it as a career It was probably David sailor who gave me my first job in the states which was kind of like a casual coaching role and that got me to fall in love with the the environment that was coaching, you know, like, being on the pool deck and helping people you know, go go for their goals and facilitating an environment for them. That was one piece. But when I came to Australia, I got involved through having some some athletes in my program that gives you access to talent camps and these things. And Bill, Sweden's very big in, in, giving me leadership opportunities, encouraging me challenging me. And then of course, once I've got a little bit of an idea that I did want to I want to deleted helped me within my club programs, you know, leading up to walking and other programs. As far as leadership within the sport, I think, you know, I would I'm one of those people, like, if you're going to have a, you're gonna have an opinion or you're gonna, you know, you want things to improve you get involved, right. So you just get involved. And I think that I was always prepared to, to be involved in through that I kind of ended up in different opportunities committees and different things with leadership that helped, you know, influence and be accountable as well, I think it's most important to be accountable. So, you know, I didn't I didn't really, necessarily aspire for the head coaching position. I definitely wasn't, I definitely thought if the opportunity presented itself, and I felt I was prepared. I think that that would be great. And I think I did prepare myself for leadership all the time. So I was definitely challenged to do that. And whatever, whatever capacity that came in, so with whether it be leading a high performance program, and not avoiding leading a state, you know, or lead taking a team bill gave me opportunities to lead teams away, I did work up towards Wanda Don Talbert, where I would be the head coach, and we got to do tours, it was part of our development as coaches. So for me, I, you know, always enjoyed that. That's why I guess I've always been in that space.

 

Jim Woolfrey  11:22

Over that time, what was the best piece of coaching advice that you've received?

 

Rohan Taylor  11:29

from a technical point of view or leadership, I guess,

 

Jim Woolfrey  11:32

I guess a bit of both. So let's let's start with technical and then let's look at the leadership side.

 

Rohan Taylor  11:37

Well, from probably the technical piece would be from from the late Gennady Turetsky who just passed away the other day, thinking of him and his family, he, he took me away on a European tour manasu Tour, which we do every year, we were doing quite a lot of it where don't tell it got me to travel with him, because he was catching Alexander pop off at the time and Michael clemen, and said, Gennady would be really good to kind of share his knowledge with me. And I think at the time, I was really trying to find a philosophy around what's my coaching purpose, or when I work with an athlete, what am I trying to achieve, and really, what he gave me is the advice around to look at the athlete as an individual, to look at their strengths. And we basically, you try to develop a program that's going to enhance their strengths and work on their weaknesses, but enhancing their strengths was really important. And not, not every athlete was the same. So what it made me do is look at my program from a more dynamic point of view that if I had 10 athletes in the pool, I have to be having 10, roughly 10 programs operating within one, which is which is a very big challenge[PB1] . But at the same time, it's where you get things more right than wrong. So rather than having 10 athletes in a pool in and giving them all one program and hoping it works for them all, it's digging down and saying well, you know, do you need to do a little bit more dryland training because that's an area where you need to, you know, you know, get better at but at the same time, you're strong in your kick so we got to make feed your kid you know, little things like that he got me to look at it from a very, from that perspective. And talk to me about coaching clemmy and coaching Alex and empowering the athletes. So he was he was very influential. But what he did do is reinforce a lot of what I was hearing, I just was in a very isolated opportunity with him where it really hit home. So he had a he had a big shift in that space. So for me that was was good. I think I'm recently probably Lee Nugent. You know, Jocko in the head coach, you all probably in leadership have mentored me to be to look at mentoring coaches, as in very similar as I do with my athletes are lining those things up. So being a mentor is not about telling you what I used to do and how good it was. It's me understanding who you are, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are as a coach, and working to try to provide you with resources and support to enhance what you do. So for that, I have to build really strong relationships around the coaches, as I did with the athletes, that level down, trust will come so those two things line up for me. strong relationships, individuality, trust, and I think you can do a good job with people then[PB2] .

 

Jim Woolfrey  14:29

You've touched on a lot there. And And specifically, you've mentioned, probably some of swimming's most iconic coaches. What do you think the great coaches do differently?

 

Rohan Taylor  14:41

I think they're great coaches. They build the relationships around the mutual partnership, but they also maintain that leadership within that relationship. And I think for me, the ability to see To pull people up and to hold them accountable at the right time, and the great ones do that very consistently. [PB3] And they're afforded that from their athlete. So they're they're afforded that moment where they go, Wait a second, I'm going to challenge you right now. Because I think the modern Coach, what we're seeing now is, you know, old school coaches, just giving everyone a clip, and off we go. Those coaches that we're talking about would, would be more targeted in that in that space back in the day. And now I see that as a real important piece. So I think that's the same. One thing is when you're leading any, any group of people, whether it be athletes or staff, you need to be able to hold people accountable. But to get to that point where you're able to do that, you need to be authentic, you need to have the trust of these people the relationship. And also, you know, you don't just pull that card out every time you feel like you're not happy, you have to be pretty, pretty switched on emotionally intelligent[PB4] . So yeah.

 

Jim Woolfrey  16:05

So just developing that theme a little further, how would you describe what the role of a coach is.

 

Rohan Taylor  16:13

So there's two, so in my capacity Now, as a head coach, it's to basically create an environment where my coaches, and athletes on the team can come together and really operate in their own way within that, so we provide that framework and support around them, and facilitate that. So I have to know what their needs are, I have to understand that I have to be able to bring in expertise, bring in the resources and support it. And let really just ensure that environment, and standards are high, and that everybody within that stays at the high standard. So their behaviors, really, because you're bringing together really 10 different coaches putting eight to 10 different coaches that are all leaders on their own right, you're bringing athletes to 4030, say 3040 athletes together who are competitors, before they get selected on the team, and now their teammates, as well as competitors. And you need to bring them together need them to influence each other in a real positive way without getting in each other's way. So but they're all individuals, this is the key[PB5] . So they need their individual preparations, because that's what's got them there. So for me to impart any sort of, you know, strength around them that says you need to do this, this is what I need to do is say, what do you need, we're going to provide it for you. But understand, there are certain requirements in this, you know, it's really about values and behaviors. And, you know, when you get the mix, right, it's a great environment when you get the mix wrong. But that's what you that's the risk of bringing, you know, people from outside groups into a group and form forming that team for five weeks, Jim, that's the key. Now, as a year round coach, as a high performance coach, a lot of that exists, but then I'm responsible for driving the individual preparation. So my philosophy was bringing the right people create the right environment and ensure that the standards were high if you walked into not a walking if you ever walk in another watering pool now this is something that I brought in while I was there, but I really right revved right ramped it up was that if you're not wearing another one in capital, or geared, you're not you know, trying as simple as that. I want you representing the club. So if you walk in now, the coaching staff, everybody, it's real presence. And that's natural. Now that's not even there's nobody's like there's it doesn't need to be said. So to me, it's about creating, what does that represent a represents a unity represents a hot, you know, so your behaviors representative of the other person where the nano cap, you know, just and so, and that wasn't hard to put in place, young people want to be part of something greater than themselves as teams and within swimming is difficult. So for me as a coach, in an individual coach, you know, the X's and O's of it is is really, you know, secondary to the environment which attracts, develops them holistically and retains them. If I can do that, then and I've high standards of who they are character, the X's and O's take care of themselves, right? They're going to be willing participants on a daily basis to want to succeed for themselves. All I got to do is facilitate that.[PB6] 

 

Jim Woolfrey  19:31

I've read recently that you describe your coaching philosophy as collaboration, commitment, communication, consistency, what are the behaviors and values central to this?

 

Rohan Taylor  19:45

Well, well, collaboration is the relationship building the you know, so I'd see three stages of coaching. So obviously, I'm gonna have performance paid piece. So you with athletes at that level, it's a true collaboration. So it's true. A relationship is trust, and its individuality. So the behaviors around that is that I treat you, I coach the person in front of me. So the behavior for me is I'm not telling you to do something that someone else needs to do you know that that's approved that through planning and preparation, when you're young developing athlete save 16 to 18 year old, I call that that's what are called negotiated collaboration, right? It's that I'm going to give you three choices of a meal, chicken, Fischer, or, Nate, right, you have three, and you're going to pick one, so you get to pick it, but I'm giving you a limited choice, because I'm educating you on how to start taking responsibility. But at the same time, you still need guidance[PB7] . And then obviously, young Junior athletes, you know, you're you're educating them and developing them, so you're guiding them a lot more, but where I sit, so that's what collaboration looks like. But as I talk to coaches say you got to develop collaboration, you got to bring them through communication? Well, again, it's it's a respectful connection with, with the athletes, what does it look like, you know, it's, it's respect, it's good morning, how you going? How's your day or, you know, good luck and have a good day at school, it's acknowledging each other. It's, it's informing the athletes about what's required, you know, no, no guesswork, right. no guesswork about that, like, you know, you know, what's required. And if we have a problem, we can work it out and sit down, or we can, you know, we can we can we can negotiate that. Sorry, the consistency, there was one before that would have commitment, commitment. Sorry, that, well, that is basically, leads starts with me, but that's the standard I set. And so to make commitments to all those things, right. So, commitment to communicating commitment to, to, to working on what's needed the commitment, you know, we can easily say, commitment to being there on time, and, you know, and, and being prepared and all those things. But I think, for me, it's, um, you know, Bill used to say to me that you have to be more committed than your athlete. So, I always kind of drove myself to that standard, you know, I think it's it that that what that looked like, to me, as a young coach was, was basically, you know, just always being on pullback, and you know, like, basically committing my whole life to the sport, I think now, it's about committing to the relationship with the park with the athlete in what their goal and what their desires are[PB8] , and showing them but but not having to be, you know, the work life balance comes into it. So that that's the key and consistency, I'd say the most important thing for me that consistency. And what that looks like is, is that you know, what you know me in, you know what you're going to get with me, and I'm not going to be up and down with myself. And the way we interact in a way where you're just not sure what's happening. We're chopping change things, to coaches, constantly changing things without, without letting the athletes know what the purpose behind it is. I think with consistencies, just by being being that authentic person, you know, what to look for the athletes is the consistency of their efforts, you know, so they got to see me as a consistent person, like, they're not coming on the pool deck on I was in a good mood today or is in a bad mood, what's going to happen, they come on, and whether I'm in a good or bad mood, they're going to, they're going to get a pretty consistent type of behavior from him. That's been a long journey to get there. And of those things that I, you know, those those things I mentioned there. They're where I'm at today, and they're what I look back on and say, these are the things that gave me I feel were were representative in my environment, when I succeed, when I have success, and not not scoreboard success. That's maybe part of it. But you know, in the eight years, I was at not a wedding. I didn't I had athletes stay in the program, probably beyond their performance years, because I just really enjoy being part of the team at athletes that were there that maybe didn't blossom until later, but they stayed with it. And so everybody, you know, seems to be happy with more than just the performance side. And I look back and say well, what was what was going on and what were the things and that's probably where I come up with the those four four key points.

 

Jim Woolfrey  24:33

Thank you for sharing those Rowan each of them very powerful in their own right. I'd like to drill into the point you made about as a coach being aware of where an athlete is along their own journey and the success that you have had here as well. You are known for coaching and guiding brushstrokes Lisa Jones who over her career one seven world titles and nine Olympic medals out as a coach beyond the title I'm on a stopwatch to see such potential.

 

Rohan Taylor  25:03

What's[PB9]  an interesting one because our sport is driven by scoreboard, performances and recognition. So it's very easy to get caught up in, in this top in the watch, as you said. And I think, I think our, I wrestle with that with coaches a lot, because I feel like they look past that when the athlete does perform well, what is happening within the athletes world and how you're how you're interacting, a lot of it's connected to how they feel about themselves, and how they're, how they're how they're the interest outside, if we start focusing more on performance, they become more focused on performance becomes a little bit too narrow. So for me, it's about, again, getting back to, you know, you're interested in the individual in who they are and what they're about where they're going in the before they're talented, they're not, you're not putting talent into them, my job is to is to make them enjoy, come into training and work hard. And the performances will take care of themselves, but sometimes that you have to make concessions at times where they're just not prepared to go to the wall, because something's gone on their life, that that is affecting him. And so you have to kind of balance like the push for talent, like the push for performance to say, I'm gonna have to take a little time with this person, because I know they're talented. And if I can get them on the blocks, when they're happy, they're usually going to swim well. And so that's, that's the, that's, that's the challenge. And so if when you see a talented athlete, like I said, all of a sudden, people like me, now come along, and, and say, Oh, hey, I see you got a swimmer, you just want to metal look like, I want to invite you to this camp, and I want to buy in the coach gets all of a sudden gets recognition, the athlete gets recognition. So again, you're feeding that performance piece. But what we need to do, and what we're trying to do here is I just take it off another subject per se, but what we're really looking to do is develop the coaching skills to understand that you got to develop the person parallel with the performer. Because if you do that, you're gonna have that talent with you a lot longer, and that talents gonna stay in a sport a lot longer.

 

Jim Woolfrey  27:15

Rohan, could you elaborate a little on the development theme and the importance of how mental development is evolving the role of a coach in swimming?

 

Rohan Taylor  27:26

Well, it's, it's very important, I think, one for your own self, as far as your own ability to, to stay, I guess, what I call a learner, what I call a growth mindset. You know, we've all heard this, that's really critically important. So you know, you need to be open to to improving, improving on what you were probably good at instinctively. And we talked about reflection and reflection, you know, wisdom comes from reflection. And, you know, coaches have to be willing to reflect not for the purpose of looking for what didn't go well, but also looking for what did go well, and then work moving that forward. [PB10] So then if I'm going to translate translate to development of an athlete's skill set, which is what you want to do, I've got to have a pretty good understanding of that. And then I've got to either, we'll put it this way, if I feel the athlete needs somebody on an expert level a bit beyond me, I've still got to be a part of that partnership. I think what coaches have made missed and I'm generalizing here, by the way, but the mistake that you can make sometimes is you just hand them over to somebody and say, develop their mental skills, and set you know, and you don't get involved yourself. I'm a big believer, you need to be involved yourself. So if you're, if you're a performance psychologist working with my athletes, I want you working with me as well. Because I may be contributing to inhibiting that athlete, or I may, if I know certain things that I can help, you know, within the environment to enhance it[PB11] . You know, the biggest thing we talked about is the practical exposure to pressure. So, you know, no one can replicate an Olympic final. That pressure you can't replicate that, how do you prepare people for to stay focused in the moment in that environment where you got to replicate these situations in training? Less, I'm aware of that. So you know, if you're got an athlete, like, you know, Lisa is a good example. I'll give you an example. Lisa, when she comes to start training with me, really didn't like competing on West, she felt really good and not a lot. And by the way, 99.9% of athletes are like that. So not unique. But what I felt was is that we needed to put her into more competitive racing situations, regardless whether it's you and get her to just execute, execute, execute. So we went to Europe, and spent time racing Europe, and it was just getting her conditioned to being able to just be more automatic. And that's something that I've done with a lot of my athletes. But in this particular case, I think it really came to fruition in Beijing for her, I think she was able to just be in the moment and execute. And that was a plan. That was an absolute plan. It was orchestrated between myself and her and the performance, it was a hope. So like, there's a whole bunch of us that were said, What is the best way forward? So I think as a coach, you need to have that skill set for yourself. recognize it, bring in and be part of the process.

 

Jim Woolfrey  30:29

Yeah, the connectivity between coaches and athletes must be so important and critical in that situation. I'm really interested, if you have any other routines or particular ways that you have found more helpful and more effective at giving athletes feedback.

 

Rohan Taylor  30:49

Well, I'm developing upon reflection, I'd say, I know at work probably the best. I think that the combination of asking questions was really important, instead of just giving direction, I think, you know, so what did you What did you think about that? How did you feel about that swim? You know what, because what I thought, let's get some feedback. What do you think you did really well? What are the areas of improvement, and then go Okay, and then let the athlete asked me for what I thought.[PB12]  Usually what I do, depending on the individual, some individuals you just left alone, you say you they needed, they needed, they need time to go cool off. So that was kind of what I where I got to, I felt that was the best. The other one that I thought was really interesting. And I talked to the coaches, I'm more aware of it now. And I wish I'd done more of it back when I was coaching, and that is, is debriefing the great swims as much as I do. Bruce, the poor swims, right? So the ones that went well, there was a there's a lot of like, high five, good job Off you go instead of sitting down and having actually the routine, the same routine. So you go through the same process. And recently I was I was out, met with a sailing, a young guy who's the Olympic sailing team chatting with him about his routine and preparation and everything and, you know, trying to learn a little bit more about other sports and fascinating that, firstly, you know, these guys, their conditions are different every time. So they're they they can't prepare for something that they they are constantly reacting to circumstances. So their whole, their whole rice is quite incredible. So their training is quite rigorous to go a lot of core instability work that they do in that, but the one thing that really struck me was their debriefing process, they do it, they do not leave the competition. So it might be a day after they race, but they don't leave the the actual location until they've done a full debrief. They do it there, regardless of the outcome. And they do the process debrief with everybody who's involved in them. So when they get home, they're done. We tend to at times, debrief A few days after a competition when we're back home, or at least that's what I did. And that means the athletes hanging on to things, so we're not helping the process[PB13] . So there's a little bit of routine I would have, would have liked to have been a bit better at and bit more, like put a bit more time into it. So yeah, that's probably right now where I'm at, I think what I can do with my coaches is to be a little bit more get get them to see a little bit more of how important it is for that routine to be in place.

 

Jim Woolfrey  33:37

You do have multiple coaches supporting you and the squad. What are your recommendations to head coaches who are looking at managing that consistency across such a diverse and a widespread coaching group?

 

Rohan Taylor  33:53

Well, it's very important that one they understand what their role their role clarity is very important, their role clarity. So with myself working for Jocko over the last couple campaigns, and you know, he got he and I work really a lot on the role clarity, so my responsibilities on team with with other coaches and that was very, very important. It took took a while but we work together. What that taught me was and what I look back and saw is that for me is in a leadership position, one role clarity to empowerment to ensure that that the coach is able to do what what you what you're expecting them to do what's agreed upon. For for a head coach, I think, you know, leadership to me is about you creating a clear vision. And you're you're empowering those to deliver that clear vision for you. So they have to understand it, then they've got to be allowed to do it. And for me, it's about you know, what do they need me what some coaches like me to check up on them and be a little bit more engaged. Some. Just leave them alone. They're off in the go and you can observe them from afar. There's different personalities Like athletes different, some athletes like to be, you know, they want you to give them feedback or they want to ask for feedback regularly. Others just, you know, you just check in with them[PB14] . So I think it's a it's an individual thing that's goes back to what I was saying about mentoring.

 

Jim Woolfrey  35:16

You talked to the earlier about the attitudinal changes you made at another wedding, bringing the squad together with a simple routine. The Australian swimming team hasn't been immune on this topic in the past, either. But what is your advice to coaches in influencing disruptive peer pressure that can arise within a team?

 

Rohan Taylor  35:39

Well, we've got a great leadership group, that that exists with the team and we talk to them a lot about awareness and things that might be you know, bubbling up, if there are in relation to that, that peer pressure, I think, you know, it's calling it out, when you see it, if we do see it, I think, you know, the coaches have a responsibility of their own athletes that they're, you know, we lean on them a little bit, we have really hadn't had much of an issue at all. And I think it's because we've got really, you know, like my athletes from, say, none who would go on to the national team, we're coming from an environment that really didn't tolerate. Again, I never, you know, so anything, but if I did, if I were to in the early days, you just pull them up, call them out? And, and look, it's like anything. If an athlete sees somebody getting called out for a behavior, most most of them will go well, I don't really want to get it to be put in that position. So that takes care of it. I think that's kind of what we what we'd like to do and and and how you call them out sometimes isn't, isn't necessarily giving them a spray or anything, you know, I mean, it's it's the individuals is pulling aside, say, Are you aware of this? Do you? Are you aware of what it does, or it is somebody you need, say, hey, that's enough, like a, like, come on, tolerate that[PB15] . So I think we've got enough leadership within the group, but definitely in the athletes, so they're very good athlete group, who won't tolerate that either. So it was a good community there.

 

Jim Woolfrey  37:08

Rohan, it happens to us all at some point in our careers, whether you're a elite athlete, a high performance coach, or even a business professional, but I'm really interested to hear your top tips in dealing with self doubt.

 

Rohan Taylor  37:27

Oh, well, self doubt is, I think, an ever existing thing that we we as human beings have, particularly when you're venturing into areas where you're accountable, or you're, you know, whether you be accountable for leadership accountable for your performance, or whatever. Um, for me, I think I look, I look at the end user reflection, pacing, and I look back and say, you know, to give myself confidence, what, um, what's my track record in this space? So getting getting an awareness of that, but also, when I am have been successful, or I have been able to achieve? What were the what were the circumstances, what were the key pieces that were existing to ensure that I have those with me now. And so I don't try to do too much beyond what I'm capable of. So I kind of limit my expectations. But I have a purpose. So replace it with a purpose. And that purpose is to deliver on whatever I've committed myself to, and, and I guess the self, the critic inside our head, you know, I try to be a little bit kinder to myself, when, when that critic wants to, wants to tell me, I could have done a little bit better. I accept it and say, Yeah, okay, fair enough, but move on. So reflect, look at my trip, past track record, and and understand what was in place. And how that really helped me.[PB16] 

 

Jim Woolfrey  38:51

Yeah, look, I couldn't agree more. I think we could all be a little kinder on ourselves sometimes with criticisms, but I'm really interested if you have any other particular resources that you have found helpful as a coach.

 

Rohan Taylor  39:03

For me, the resources I find helpful in my sphere of influence, the people I surround myself with, as a as a, what I would say is the people I go to, to tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear. So they're the people that I know I can call in, and they'll give me feedback that is helpful to they understand what I'm trying to achieve. So that's probably my most important resource[PB17] . And beyond that, I think, you know, looking at other what other industries sports industries do, like I'm very fascinated and one of the reasons why when you reached out to me I'm like, yeah, look, I think this is great want to explore beyond sport, because I do feel there's some some synergies across, you know, if I'm going to be managing a group of people in a corporate environment, I'd want to probably follow the same process I do. Now. I got to get them on everybody on board and got to lead and you know that and act as a community. So I'm very, very And so for me looking into those spaces I, you know, whether it's reading, watching YouTube doing a one on a study tour with a group of other coaches last year to the US and went to different industries and sports, and art, and we went there with a purpose that was to look at how other sports and other industries created high performance environments to enhance either a product or an athlete. So that was really that key purpose. And we went to Google, Google X went to halos neuroscience. So these are the bit of the industry went to insert delay, went to some bat, you know, basketball teams and football teams and UFC and went dismissive in a sport. But we did get a little bit of industry in there. That was interesting. It was fascinating. But those things really those are resources to me, because a lot of times I just reiterate what I what I feel is right.

 

Jim Woolfrey  40:56

Rohan, this is my last question today on your appointment as head coach of the dolphins. It was Liezel actually that commented with Rohan. I don't know how he does it, but he just knows the right buttons to push for every person. He is really knowledgeable. He's really personable. He loves the athletes. He knows what makes a great athlete and he thinks outside of the box. What legacy Do you believe you're leaving as a coach?

 

Rohan Taylor  41:24

Well, that was pretty, pretty nice statement there. I'd like to think that that I do I look for I'm prepared to look look for whatever kind of Avenue it is to ensure that the athlete has the best opportunity to perform at their best when it counts. And I think my role as a coach in the my legacy is that, that that that I have, I've looked at those and I've really exhausted it as best as possible. And not just stayed in one line that you do consider other avenues that might help you in other sports, other sporting people [PB18] we used to do cross training with the with AFL club, and preseason. I used to bring in a brought in a synchro coach to do synchro training with my group and the first eight weeks of season for scowling and you know, she was a Russian Australian coach rush but from Russia and she's lovely, but she was also just no funny business. And I always felt like bringing other people in who can enhance what I'm doing. So yeah, like I feel like I'm innovative, innovative, and but I think innovation not just for the sake of innovation, I never lose the core value of what is this athlete trying to achieve? Right. So I don't dictate what the athlete is trying to achieve. I just try to surround them with with ways of enhancing so they get to where they need to be.

 

Jim Woolfrey  42:51

Rohan it has been such a privilege and a pleasure speaking with you today. The dolphins are in great hands. And I wish you and the squad every success. Thank you so much for your time.

 

Rohan Taylor  43:04

Thanks, Jim. I appreciate it. Really, really pleasure talking.

 

Transition  43:08

The great coach's podcast.

 

Paul Barnett  43:12

Hi, everyone. It's Paul here. And you have been listening to our discussion with Roland Taylor, the coach of the Australian swimming team, also known as the dolphins. The parts of the discussion that resonated most with me were the idea of coaches needing to be more committed to their athlete, the consistency in behavior and mood of the coach being an important element of driving athlete performance. debriefing the great swims as much as you do the poor swims. And replacing expectations with your purpose when your internal critic is causing you to self doubt. In our next episode, we will be speaking to Ric Charlesworth, the legendary coach of the Australian men's and women's hockey teams here is a sneak peek.

 

Ric Charlesworth  43:57

And leadership is is in my opinion only about two things it's about real definition about where you want to go. Knowing where the end point is where you're heading. And then it's about being able to persuade people and take them with you. And you do that in all sorts of ways you do that buddy example You said you do that by your rhetoric. You do that by the science and and tactics and and by gathering evidence and a whole range of ways to to convince people that this is the way we ought to go. But at the same time you do that in a sporting context. You also have to look at the athletes or in your team or the people in your team and you have to make the most of them you have to discover a way which utilizes their skills and abilities

 

Paul Barnett  44:41

just before we leave. If you know a great coach who has a unique story to share, then we would love to hear from you. Please contact us using the details in the show notes.


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