Ep 011 - Tracey Menzies Stegbauer
Fri, 10/16 9:59AM • 41:40
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, athletes, tracy, swimmers, important, question, people, worked, kids, feedback, swimming, life, hear, turned, moments, deck, speak, thought, australia, pool
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Transition, Intro, Tracey Menzies, Jim Woolfrey, Chris O'Brien
Intro 00:01
Welcome to the great coach's podcast. To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard after this is a chance. You can understand the dressing, you can work towards a common goal. We are all on the same team. Now you focus on the fundamentals. We've gone over time and time again. Defense has got to be better. We've known great moments are born and great opportunity.
Jim Woolfrey 00:34
My name is Jim Woolfrey. And you're listening to the great coach's Podcast, where we interview great sporting coaches to try and find ideas to help us all lead our teams better. A great coach on this episode is Tracy Menzies steak Bauer. Tracy is an award high performance swimming coach. for 10 years she worked at the Australian Institute of Sport and with swimming Australia, coaching at both World Championship and Olympic events for 15 years. Tracy coached at the renounced Sutherland Leisure Centre in Sydney beside Doug frost, taking over as head coach in her final five years. She has coached countless household names and internationally recognized swimmers such as Craig Stevens, Kai Hurst, Simon Kelly, and Kirsten Thompson. Tracy is best known as friend and former coach of five time Olympic champion, Ian Thorpe, coaching him in his run to the Athens Olympics, which saw him become the only person in Olympic history to medal in the 100 200 and 400 combination. Today, Tracy walks the pullback coaching the next generation of Australian swimmers at Radley Parkinson in Queensland, Australia. Tracy is a Down to Earth open and honest coach and mentor. She puts so much of herself into an athlete's development making a connection that she describes as being part of her coaching family, and one that lasts long after her role of a coach is over. What stood out for me is her description that as a coach, her role is to find the right key to open the door of an athlete's unique abilities, her level of care and empathy so that her athletes know no matter what happens, she is always there for them. And of course, those special moments coaching Ian Thorpe leading up to the events of Athens in 2004. Tracy speaks intensely about being grateful for the gifts given to her and a life. We were grateful for the time she gave and the impact she made on us. We hope you enjoy our discussion with the wonderful Tracy Minzy Stig Bauer, the great coaches podcast. Tracy Menzies steg Bella, welcome to the podcast. And thank you for making time to speak to us today.
Tracey Menzies 02:47
Well, thank you very much for having me. I feel very privileged to be asked. So thank you.
Jim Woolfrey 02:53
Tracy, let me start by asking you a couple of quite easy questions. Where are you in the world? And what have you been up to today?
Tracey Menzies 03:00
Okay, I am currently in Australia, Brisbane, Australia. What have I been up to today, I coached this morning, came home, I took the kids to school, come home, it's groceries, cook dinner, have a clean house went back, pick the kids up to dogs for a walk. And I'm now talking to you.
Jim Woolfrey 03:21
I want to start a chat by asking you about a comment you made on a podcast that I listened to recently in preparation for today. And it's about career advice. And you shared some advice that came from your parents. And I hope I'm quoting this right. Yeah. Your parents said, You can't just step into a role. You need to prove yourself. How has that advice influenced you as a coach?
Tracey Menzies 03:45
Um, I think I was very fortunate. I've had two parents that are extremely supportive, but also very hard working people. And yeah, I always bought I thought my sister and myself with the understanding of you have to make your own path in this world. And, yeah, no matter what cards you dealt with, make the most of the cards you dealt with. And yeah, I think I've had many moments in my life where things haven't sort of gone to crush heart. And you've just got to make sure that you turn things into the way you want it to be. I think that's the most important thing. So yeah, I've been I've been lucky. I've had hard parents but good parents.
Jim Woolfrey 04:29
Yeah. Tracy, we've spoken to many great coaches who have been school teachers, you yourself, were an art and phys ed teacher, and you started coaching, learn to swim programs. You've even said that grassroots coaching is really exciting. What I'm really interested in is what did you bring from your teaching background and those early coaching days into elite coaching?
Tracey Menzies 04:55
Um, well, I think the understanding of the person or the athlete i think is Really important. And I've been very fortunate that when I was teaching, I had some excellent teachers. And I think, in many ways, they formed me as a coach more than some of my coaching peers. It's been the teaching mentors that actually helped me. One lady in particular, one of my head teachers, she took me into a classroom. And that's what she turned around. And she said to me, Tracy, there's gonna be moments where you just kind of want to walk out of the classroom. And she said, like a lions den, if you let them sci fi, they'll walk all over you. And it was always something that really stuck with me in the thing to about sometimes being quiet is actually more powerful than being loud. I thought, that was always something that I took into my coaching as well. But it's, you don't have to be loud to be heard. And I've sort of coached in that capacity as well that you just go about your job quietly. And if you do that, your results will speak for themselves.[PB1]
Jim Woolfrey 06:00
I heard one of your male swimmers actually make a comment to say that when Doug Frost was absent for some training, and you took over the pool deck, that the swimmers thought it would be a little bit of an easy session. And the comment was made that that Tracy switched into teacher mode, and it was one of the hardest sessions that they ever, ever experienced. So I think you undercook what you were bringing from your teaching background into elite coaching slightly?
Tracey Menzies 06:31
Yeah, I think it's to achieve values. And I think that was something that, um, yeah, the behavior, what part is the behavior except and I've always been that I've always walked that walk that I'm not frightened to call people out if they're behaving poorly, or not doing something right. And assigning return, you got to allow kids to, and I know I get criticized for but you've got our kids to fall, that's a process of learning and put it in a way that you enable them to know how to develop from that, I think is really important. So that's one thing in teaching, we always do, you, you're setting an environment that's safe for learning. And part of that is you've got to file sometimes to know how to move forward[PB2] .
Jim Woolfrey 07:19
One other talk a little bit about that a little later. But I want to just come back to again, this journey you've had as a as a coach and those influences that you've had in your life as a coach, you yourself, were quite a talented swimmer. And you moved into coaching during your university years as set as you're doing your, your teaching degree. You also worked along on the pool deck alongside the great Doug frost. In your role at the IRS, you also worked alongside many outstanding coaches in their fields. What is it for you that great coaches do differently?
Tracey Menzies 07:53
I think the best coaches are the coaches that one understand themselves, but also had that connection with the athlete. Um, there's a lot of things to that standing on projects that I've seen that I look and go, I will take some of those things on or all, like I've been in environments where I've had to, and some coaches have told me, I've had to change my style of coaching. And in some ways you do try and do that. But then you never coaching to your true capacity. And I think that's something that as a teacher when I had teachers under me, and now as a head coach, and when I have been a head coach coaches under myself, I've always tried to make sure that they have their own style. And I think that's really important that you've got to be authentic to yourself, and authentic to your own coaching style. And I think that's, that's the beauty of coaching that when you bring your own authenticity, you find the real gems and you have those real connections with athletes, I think it's that authenticity, I would say would be the true quality of the great coaches. And I know that they know their stuff. I think that's really important to know your product[PB3] . Know what year coaching and good teachers know how to teach. So, yeah.
Jim Woolfrey 09:19
It's a great quality. I want to also just dive a little bit into what you're best known as, as a coach, you guided a school Australian swimming legend in thought, two Olympic success, none more famous than the events of Athens in 2004. But you have also coached so many household names in Australian swimming, and it's a long list. Craig Stevens Kai Hurst Simon Kelly Bronte Barrett Ellis Mills J. Nielsen, I'm reading the list because you're known for in thought that you've got such a long list of quality swimmers that you have influenced. My question actually is as a coach How do you look beyond the time on a stopwatch to see so much potential?
Tracey Menzies 10:07
Well, I think that's the thing that I, that's the thing I love is when you look across the pool, whether it's a public swimmer or whether it's our real talent is actually saying how people swim and travel in the water. That's my thing, and how can I help them like the other even the other day, I had a public swimmer in the pool. And it's been bugging me watching them for the last couple of weeks. And I just said, Look, do you mind if I actually give you a piece of advice? And they will? I can't know. Anyway, I helped them with their cake. And they turned around, they said to me, oh, that was so much easier. So I think it's that thirst for helping, I think I had to, but I am. Yeah, that one coach actually said to me one day, or you're only to coach middle distance. And I thought, No, I coach, a coach coaches, whatever stands in front of them, whether it's a sprinter or an open water, and I think that's something I can hold my head really hard. I'm one of the only coaches in Australia that has done that from 100 meters right through to 10. k, I've put a swim on Olympic team. So and, and it does, it brings its challenges as well. So it's my may develop myself and my coaching skills to be able to do that. And I like the challenge. So that's something that I really thrive on team as a coach,
Jim Woolfrey 11:32
the connections you make with swimmers is obvious. And that example of your your local influence to that local swimmer is a great one. swimmers respond really, really strongly to your sense of loyalty, which today is sadly foreign to many young people. My question, though, is, how do you describe your coaching style and philosophy to make those strong connections?
Tracey Menzies 12:00
Well, first, for some kids, it can be instant. But others it takes a while otherwise, I sort of explained it to one of my athletes the other day, as a door, I said, we have the key to the door. Some athletes may only have one door, some athletes may have multiple doors. And as a coach, you've got to find the right key that opens the right doors for them to be able to develop and to be able to pursue the best abilities. And as a coach, I think that's the thing that you've got to be able to read the person and get that trust, I think is really important. And that's something that as my parents, that was something that I always had an environment where I would had trust around me, I I was comfortable. To today, I think that was the thing that we if we wanted to do something, we were given every opportunity to pursue that and do it to the best of our ability. So I think that's something that I've taken through into my coaching and give kids the ability that you see something in when people like there's many coach or teacher that'll see not something in a kid, it's always to look within and see something can try and bring that out and not give up on them. I think that's a really important thing that there's too many people in today's world that will give up on people that if they're not going to get something out of it, I'll just give up where I think we need to be in, especially through this covid period, we've got to be there for one another, we've got to bring the best out of one another and be there to care i think that's a quality that a lot of us have lost.
Jim Woolfrey 13:53
And what for you are the non negotiables when you coach
Tracey Menzies 13:57
honesty, I think that's the most important thing good or bad. self esteem is injured or something's not right. Just tell me I don't sugarcoat and I think that's a really important thing. Yeah, honesty and trust. Trust is a big one for me. They've got to have, like I even said to one of my athletes the other day, I said you don't trust me. And he said, Yeah, I do. I said, Now you dine. I said, if you trust me, I said, you won't question I said you'll just do and he goes, I'm not question I said, you might not be physically questioning but I said your body language is telling me that you're questioning. And he was like, Oh, they came in that afternoon. He turned around, he goes, I just want to know, why am I doing this? And then when I explained and he's like, Okay, I've got it. I said, Well ask if you don't understand, ask. That's all I need you to do. But don't not ask because I said that's as bad as just going through and just going through the motions. So I think It's really important that kids know why[PB4]
Jim Woolfrey 15:03
your closeness with your your athletes is something you're known for. And if I can dive a little bit into your friendship and closeness within thought, it drew a lot of attention when you became his coach and questions were asked if you could get the best out of him. History has shown that not only you kept in on track, both emotionally and physically, but you also also successfully silenced your harshest critics. And there were a lot of them. My question is, what advice do you have for coaches who are trying to find that balance between being too close to their athletes and being the coach?
Tracey Menzies 15:43
Well, I think first and foremost is understanding what your role is, and when and where. So when we're on the deck, like I was definitely coach, but I had that level of care and empathy as well. I think that was really important that athletes need to know that you're there no matter what good or bad that you're there for them. And I think that was something that I've always tried to have with my athletes. [PB5] I am as an athlete, I went through a pretty traumatic time at the end of my career. And I think that was the thing that I really searched for was that I just needed to have somebody there that was in my corner. So I think that's something and as far as I'm silencing you, critics, I think that was, I think that was a hard thing to I think he protected me and tried to protect me and guard me in many ways, cuz we did cop a lot of criticism that we, it wasn't going to be a winning formula wasn't going to be right. And I think it was hard to because I was, I was the first female on the pool deck in an Australian team since 1972. It was, it was foreign, I was the assistant coach. So there were many different things and different hoops that we had to try and jump through to try and cement that success. And then even when he did, it was then by some was still seen as it was sheer luck. It was it was a fluke that had happened. So I sort of carried that around as baggage for quite a long time. And I was lucky, I was very privileged that I had a and and I never really took on my coaching achievements with him in many ways, if that makes sense that I looked and when I just I should I should be very grateful I, I did achieve success, but anybody could have done. And not until you really unpack what he was actually going through at that point in time that you're looking go. Well, we actually as a team did a really good job together, both him and I and I think that's something to always look at it as a team, not as just one. It's always a partnership. So I think that's something that's really important, too, when you have good athletes that it's it's a partnership.
Jim Woolfrey 18:16
You mentioned there the managing the trauma in your life, if it's if it's not too personal. Tracy, could you describe how it shaped you as a coach? Well,
Tracey Menzies 18:30
it's definitely shaped a lot of things in my life. Okay, there's a there's a lot of things that Yeah, I, I went through in the back end of that period of time, um, you know, like to be told from one doctor that I might never have children. And that was pretty dope as a 19 year old to be told that I may never have kids, because of the damage I've done to my body was, I was pretty traumatic. So yes, when I did actually have two children, and they were my pride and joy. And that's something that in my coaching, I've always made sure my kids come first. And any athlete I've coached has known that there's my own family, and then there's my coaching family[PB6] . So yeah, that's been really important. But I've definitely made sure that athletes can communicate with me, no matter what's going on in their life. I think that's been a really important thing that you're there and pressure. What a lot of people see is pressure. It rides in many different ways. And I think that's something that I've been able to navigate like when you said how do you see somebody with talent? Like I can look at somebody and guy right, you're carrying pressure and know the right questions, how to ask it, how to unpack it, and get sometimes you can take the backpack off before they write something. Time's it takes a little bit longer. But yeah, I think that's probably one of my skills. [PB7] And I'm really, really, I'm quite good. I don't know how to explain how you do it. But I can just look and go, yep, that kids got this, this and this. And then you go right, we've got to do this to get them over the line.
Jim Woolfrey 20:19
I was actually going to ask you about how you teach that belief, because you once commented that coaching in was such a big learning curve for you, and that he saw something in you that you didn't actually see yourself. I was actually going to ask you a question about how you managed self doubt at that time. But I went on to read further in that article, and you said, coaching in was a huge gift. I now bring that belief with me when I'm coaching others, and I teach people to believe in themselves. Trust, it's a wonderful quality to have. And I'm really interested to hear you describe how you teach people this.
Tracey Menzies 20:54
I think all of us, in every one of us, there's gifts, and I think half the time, we're so in tune to looking to what everything like social media, how we were saying about phones, that the world looks so perfect through so many different lenses in so many different eyes, that we seem to forget to be able to look in the mirror and go, what is it that I truly bring to, to the pool deck or to my family or to my friends every day, and I think we were so hard on ourselves that we we forget to actually stop and really shouldn't be grateful, like take the gratification of what we have actually achieved. So like my own kids, I'm always like, make sure you say thankful, be grateful for the teachers that you have in your life, be grateful for the people you have. And I think teaching that sense of gratification takes you a long way that you take the time to stop and look and go I'm in this place because of the people around me that it's not on just t because and I think it's really important to have many different things in your life, that it's not just that you're an athlete, you have many other different facets in your life as well[PB8] . And I think that's really important to keep balance. But I'm in teaching when a man asked me to take him on. Yeah, I really had a lot of reservation about it. It was I was the assistant coach, I had fi How is going to be perceived in the coaching world. But an insane Oh my god, Coach Simon and Kirsten Thompson. Like, I had some really good age group kids too. And I'd had some great success back then. So, but it was definitely a fear, like almost an imposter syndrome that it was. Yeah, I don't know whether I'm ready to be on this deck. But going to World Championships 2003. I remember. Because I was always probably a lot karma and in like national meats. Were at the International meet 2003 and I remember the first morning we're on the pool deck and and come up to me and goes, you're right. It's morning message. He goes, you like a spinning topping as he sure is. I said what happens if this doesn't work goes well, it's a little bit too like to think that now isn't it? And I said, Oh, and it was good. Because he actually got in the pool. And I saw that young, fun. He and I looked at one line. He wasn't in the light and I'm like cool, breezy warming up and he was moving across the pool deck. And I said can you stop it? It goes, it's nice to see you laugh. He goes, You tell me the sign. He said you need to. He goes, we've got this or okay. So I think out of that I soon realize you're still gonna have fun no matter where and what it is, is still got to be fun. And I had one athlete I remember a major me. I said to him, close your eyes. I said take yourself back to the very first time around the pool day. And he said what I said Close your eyes. Take yourself back to the very first time school swimming carnival. First time you won the gold medal and you had a massive smile. I said right. Focus that tonight when you get on the block. Because I said that young boy is still in there and swim awesome. And it was sometimes I think it's just channeling that inner person and it's and we I often have to do it too. I'll sometimes do the same thing again in the bathroom, wash my face get myself ready. So yeah, but it's just finding that inner strength but I've got good people around me so I'm lucky.
Jim Woolfrey 24:44
It's it's really interesting to hear you speak about those big moments with your swimmers and you always seem to be giving them them the practical advice that really important time so it's really, really cool to hear some practical advice coming across from MTU. And a really critical moment in In his career, I may be looking at some of these these moments with different eyes. But you all seem very calm, though to me. And it's interesting to hear you describe some of that nervousness and that anxiety. I mean, my question is for you, though, are there any other routines or systems that you have used to maintain some calmness? Either with yourself or with your swimmers? During these big moments? Do you do it mainly through humor? Are there other systems and routines you use?
Tracey Menzies 25:28
No, like when I was at Sutherland, I was really lucky, I had a really great yoga coach with us not brebner. It's so funny. It's, you appreciate the people you have in your programs. But it's not to sort of look back and go, Well, like I had a great team. Like I had Graham Hill, I had kaymak. First, like all these people that worked with me, Andrew Hunter, like, we had this great little bubble of people at that point in time. When I look back, I think I realized how lucky I was with the people I had at that point that we all worked in harmony, and worked. That the success of the athlete that it wasn't about us getting the shirts on our back, it wasn't that it was about how do we bring out the best in these athletes. And they were definitely a team that tried to support myself as well. So it was keeping myself calm, making sure that my vision was the vision and how we went about that like come our member, our boxing coach, Liz, he. He turned around, he said to me, was it Alright, if I get some of the older guys to come in and pad for your song One of the mornings? And I said, Well, yeah, that's fine. Little did I know, he was actually bringing some of these older guys in as mentors, the younger guys, so they'd sit down, have a coffee with them afterwards. And, and it was things like that, that I sought a look and go I was very fortunate. I had great people around like Mark used to say to me, you need to make sure you take time for yourself today, you need to relax. You need to make sure you're working on some relaxation. So I was very lucky. I had great people and those skills that I learned then the skills that I've taken through now into my coaching now. But yeah, like being a busy mom and things like that. Sometimes you put yourself last and that's something that through COVID I've had to learn that. Okay, Tracy's got to be priority number one again. Yeah.
Jim Woolfrey 27:37
It may seem like an obvious question for a swimming coach. But when is it important for coaches to step back?
Tracey Menzies 27:46
Let's say I'm, I'm a big believer that competition, dynamic tight. Like our job is on the pool deck coaching times, like training times. And like, I'll preach that to my athletes now. And I think the thing too, like I put some exam times, but I haven't always been on their teams with them. So I think that's been a big learning curve for a lot of my athletes that I've always said, when you go off the shore, you're there to do a job, whether I'm there or whether I'm not there, you know what you've got to do. And I've made resilient athletes, I think that's the most important thing that and, and to with the parents, so I've had some athletes that the parents have been very nervous, like, will they be able to do it? Are they going to be alright that it's coaching them as well as coaching the kids, I think it's really important to know their role know their place. Like I even know myself, sometimes you get in the car and you're like, No, no, no, no. Stop. Stop talking. Stop talking. Just Yeah, and I think that's really important. Listen, I think that's a skill too, that I think we've lost. It's a dying art that we hear, but we don't actually listen. So listen to the words that they're saying. And generally when you listen and deeply Listen, you hear the things they'll ask for advice, if they want you to come down to the marshalling room, or can you walk me to the marshalling room? Yes. Are you all right? Are you nervous? On the word map, okay, then you talk it through, but if it's got this, great, you've got this. So I think it's really important that you just listen to my most of them[PB9] . So
Jim Woolfrey 29:31
we we've spoken to a few coaches that have talked about that re centering and bringing themselves down into the Blue Zone away from the red zone and it sounds like you self regulate you moving in and out of similar types of zone naturally. But I want to also talk to you a little bit about the belief systems that some of these elite Elite swimmers that have had that you've worked with. You talked about Ian saying to you that you No, we've got this and you build resilient swimmers. You know that self belief was actually one of in thought superpowers. You also commented that some athletes really need to work at this, you know, what advice do you have for coaches who are looking to draw these qualities out in their athletes?
Tracey Menzies 30:19
I think the thing is, we sort of, we try to over coach sometimes I think those qualities are in kids when they're young, like you'll say, the kids that the really good little Rice's and we take it, we take things away from that, that we look and go all all. Like, if it's a soccer match that the kid that's the one that's the loud one on the field, that there are blonde leader, like skill start to show and will naturally take the forefront in the true true athletes. And it's just developing nice things. I think that's the part and under developing something. So looking and going, Well, actually, they're overclocking nice, well, like I remember, a couple of my athletes weren't good at something. So I introduced things and I knew they were going to fail, but that it was okay, now you've actually got to learn to work hard for something. So because she's, there's a lot of athletes and a lot of kids that things come really easy to them, and they've never had a hardship. So then when a hardship does come, they don't know how to handle it. So if it's a disappointment, let me sing an Olympic team. And they've never had a hardship, it's going to hit hard. So it's putting things in place that you look and go, right? If this happens, what things are we putting in place to prepare this. So it's sort of not a crystal ball, but sort of looking and going running home, if this is going to happen? What we do stand I do dry swim, sometimes I might call and get out swings that I might write up on the session, okay, if you within this percent of time, that's it for the session they like aren't really. So then you say the kids that really lift and then there's others that go, Oh, I can't do that can't do that. They're the ones that you know, okay, on race day, you've actually got to help them because I haven't got the skills.[PB10]
Jim Woolfrey 32:18
It sounds like your ability to connect with your swimmers with giving them you know, really productive and pragmatic feedback. Have you got any advice for coaches that are looking to, you know, adopt those sorts of styles and mechanisms of providing player feedback or swimmer feedback or athlete feedback?
Tracey Menzies 32:39
Um, I think the first thing for themselves, they say, say the qualities in themselves to be prepared to hear the things from your athletes, I think as coaches, sometimes we're not prepared to hear that. And like, I'll ask, often, was that a good set tonight? Did you like this? or How is your warm up? How or are saying was that? Oh, were you all right? How was that race plan? I think ask the questions, too, because you need feedback as much as they need feedback that it's, we don't have all the answers. Yes, we're a coach, but we don't have all the answers. And to create that partnership, you've got to show a little bit of vulnerability as well. And I think that's a really important thing, too, that we are human. And if you stuffer, it made it work. I've I had an athlete that I changed the gym program, and that I said, I will hold myself accountable. I stuffed it up, we shouldn't have done what we did. And that cost you that position. And yet I have to live with that. I know I stuffed that up and and that's the thing that I think owning it, not handing it off that it was like No, that was their doing that was their performance. It's a partnership. So if they haven't done something, it's what happened. I done to facilitate that as well.
Jim Woolfrey 34:09
You spoken a lot today about mechanism systems that you've used and resources you've used to that you found helpful as a coach now introducing yoga, bringing the boxing element in, but you also touched a little bit there on the resource. Have you been able to get feedback on yourself? How have you found these types of resources and maybe some other resources helpful as a coach?
Tracey Menzies 34:35
Well, I think I live in an environment where I have honesty quite often and my family and Yeah, I am. That's just how I've been brought up that it's, it's okay, it's not the let's just paint everything perfect. That's not how the world is so and if something happens, you turn it around. So I think I've I like feedback too. But I like I like it in a way that is honest. And it's authentic, not just the sake of others give your feedback for the sake of giving feedback. It's not it's got to be actually genuine. It's got to be authentic. It's our car remember, wanna fight will show costs and warm them up. And I didn't think they'd make the final they made the final and they're actually middle chance. I get over spoke really badly. And I cut out the rice I swam really well and got to have the rice and I just said to me twice, can I give you a little bit of feedback messages? Certainly. Please don't talk so much in warm up again. I've really actually it made me even more nervous. I said, Okay, Point taken done. I said, let's write that in the diary. So yeah, I'm and I like I like to reflect to like, I'll write in my diaries to like, Yes, good session today or not good session. Note to self don't do this, or, yeah, I'll even sometimes journalists, or I'll have that conversation driving home from training to myself. So yeah, I like to. I definitely like to be reflective. I think that's a really important thing. But giving myself time to do that, I think
Jim Woolfrey 36:30
is important. I think it's a really important lesson for everybody that feedback can come from some of the most unlikely sources and places and times.
Tracey Menzies 36:41
Yeah, yeah. Like, even during COVID the kids went to take the dog for a walk. And I went out the front guy, nice lady stopped. And she goes, excuse me, uh, you their mother? And I often Oh, my goodness, like, what have we done? And she turned around, she said, Oh, can I just say she said, your kids say, Good morning, or good afternoon to me every day when they walk past? And I said, Oh, thank you. I said, that means a lot to me as a parent. And yeah, I thought like the little things like that, I think were forgotten in the world just to compliment one another. And it means a lot like that means actually doing a good job. So yeah, so I think like, feedback doesn't have to just being coaching can be in all aspects of the world.
Jim Woolfrey 37:28
No, I think we can all welcome additional feedback into our lives more regularly. Tracy, this is my last question for you. today. You are one of Australia's most decorated swimming coaches, your swimmers talk so fondly of their time with you as a coach and earlier you mentioned and Kirsten Thompson, she actually once said that I feel that without Tracy's input, I may still have been an age group swimmer and may never have made an Olympic team. She was one of the members of the relay team at one of the Olympic Games and had success at various others big swimming moments. For you, though, Tracy, what legacy Do you believe you are leaving as a coach?
Tracey Menzies 38:11
say things like that actually really touched me when I that you've had an impact, I think. I think that's the most important thing. Like I'm kind of like Chloe Esposito. She's modern pentathlon. So she came in and did some swimming with us. And I had to help her with her turn. So dad said, can you help with her turns? If she's just had a baby. And I think it's those moments too, that you still have a connection in their life. I think that's a really important part that you're looking go. You say them through the ups and downs, but most importantly, that is still part of their life. And I think that's that's the gold medal for me is that I can still have any one of my sisters that could pick the phone up and go, how are you doing? And I still want to have a connection with you in their life. I think that's that's the moment that I want in my life that I know that I've made them the best athlete I could, but also a really good human thing, too. So that's my legacy. [PB11] I think.
Jim Woolfrey 39:23
What a wonderful way to end this today. The ability to educate, mentor, and coach and do all of that without fuss or fanfare is a very, very special quality. We all need more people like Tracy Menzies in our lives. Thank you so much for your time today.
Tracey Menzies 39:41
Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. So thank you.
Transition 39:46
The great coaches podcast.
Paul Barnett 39:50
Hi, everyone, it's Paul here. You've been listening to our discussion with Tracy Minzy, Stig Bauer, the Australian swimming coach most known for coaching five time Olympian. champion aim thought the key highlights for me were her thoughts on being honest when your coaching mistakes impact the athletes performance, being able to spot when athletes are carrying excess pressure, and how Ian Thorpe helped her deal with self doubt. I hope you enjoyed it as much as Jim and I did. In our next episode, we will be speaking to Chris O'Brien, the lead performance consultant at the Australian Institute of Sport, and Australia's most successful rowing coach, here is a sneak peek.
Chris O'Brien 40:34
My own personal opinion is that connection with athletes, the athletes who win Olympic gold medals, good athletes, the athletes who come second, third, fourth, and fifth are also really good athletes. So it's a difference as to why some women some don't win. And it's a four I think for good coaches to get the most out of the athletes that they have. And and I think we can all identify amazing athletes who have not been successful in achieving, say, an Olympic gold medal and a variety of reasons as to why but the great coaches I think are really those who that I look at those who really managed to harness a human spirit, that human endeavor and to truly understand the people that they're working with.
Paul Barnett 41:20
And just before we leave, if you know a great coach who has a unique story to share, then we would love to hear from you. Please contact us using the details in the show notes.