Jan Stirling - Ep 014

Fri, 10/16 11:16AM • 42:26

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coach, athletes, people, head coach, team, jan, jen, paul, legacy, journey, lightning, leadership, adelaide, deliver, stay, understand, environment, game, opals, influential

SPEAKERS

Jan Stirling, Paul Barnett, Transition, WV Raman, Intro, Jim Woolfrey

Intro 00:01

Welcome to the great coach's podcast. To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard after this is a chance. You can understand the dressing, you can work towards a common goal. We are all on the same team. Now you do it to the issue of focus on the fundamentals. We've gone over time and time again. It's got to be better. We've known great moments are born.

Paul Barnett 00:32

Great opportunity. My name is Paul Barnett, and you are listening to the great coaches Podcast, where we interview great sporting coaches to try and find ideas to help all of us lead our teams better. Our great coach on this show is former Australian basketball player and coach Jan Sterling. Jan played 163 games in the Australian National League between 1982 and 1991. She started her coaching career in 1993 in the Australian National League, guiding her team, the Adelaide lightning to 12 straight finals appearances and five consecutive Grand Final appearances resulting in four championships. In 2001, she became head coach of the Australian women's team, the first time a former player and a woman had ever taken charge. Jan had immediate success, winning a bronze medal at the 2002 World Championships, the silver medal at the 2004 Olympics in Athens, and then gold at the 2006 World Championships in Brazil. She has also held high performance coaching roles with the South Australian men's cricket team and the Port Adelaide power Australian rules football team. Jan is a passionate and energetic leader, the type of person who looks you directly in the eye as she speaks to you. This was a masterclass in coaching. And the highlights for me were her view on great coaches as being people who are good at the holistic development of their athletes and staff. Her resilience within a team can be built by finding ways for your athletes to sacrifice be a resource for their teammates, and experience a level of competitiveness. That means they are challenged for their place in the team. How training and learning has to be fun if you expect your athletes to keep coming back with a sense of passion, and the importance of gratitude expressed through handwritten notes from athletes and staff back to the people who have helped them on their journey as they head towards a championship game or significant event. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

Transition 02:35

The great coaches podcast.

Paul Barnett 02:38

Jane Sterling. Good afternoon, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.

Jan Stirling 02:42

Thank you very much.

Paul Barnett 02:44

Jan Ive been, looking forward to this conversation for weeks. And we've been we've been trying really hard to find a date and because you're so busy, could you tell us where you are in the world and what you've been up to today?

Jan Stirling 02:56

Okay, well, I'm General Manager of high performance with basketball Australia, currently in my Adelaide office. Although I do normally spend a lot of time in Canada we have a center of excellence, set of experiences where we have a full residential program for our emerging boom disciples. So young people aged anywhere between 15 and 19. And then in 2017, the NBA decided to set up what they call the global Academy. So the most elite Academy again for young men, although they are starting to advance and women so I spend my time between Adelaide and Canberra. And obviously, the challenge right now as with most Olympic and Paralympic sports is trying to manage how we extend a program for another 12 months keep athletes engaged for another 12 months to actually attend an Olympic Games in 2021.

Paul Barnett 03:50

Jan, you're one of those coaches who has had exposure to multiple sports. And so in this interview, I'm really looking forward to talking to you about your work in Australian football and other things as well. But I'd like to just step back if I couldn't ask you about the great coaches that you've had exposure to firsthand. There's Tara vanderveer. There's and Donovan. There's Ken Hinkley. There's David Parkin and of course, Ric Charlesworth, we were just talking about, yeah, what do you think the great coaches do differently?

Jan Stirling 04:21

Yeah, that's an interesting one that comes up. I think number one, I certainly believe they know how to surround themselves with very good people. And I think in all those people you've mentioned, what they you know, not only good human beings, but they also they won't stand for any fools either. So and of course, one you mentioned david Parker, who's been a wonderful mentor of mine for God, some 30 years I think. He always said to me, Jan, just make sure you've got people alongside of you that actually better than you in some areas where you work. So and I've always felt that True. So I think number one is being able to recognize where they were our own weaknesses are as a head coach, because you can't be everything you just can't. And so being able to recognize your gifts and being smart enough to bring in people that are going to excel in those areas where you're not as strong, so that the collective is stronger than anyone thought. And I think that's probably one of the best things that most of these coaches are probably, you know, pretty good at. And the other thing I'll say to 9%, no matter who which coaches are taught to, you don't find too many, what you call great coaches, I don't know whether, you know, I mean, those others you mentioned, a great coaches may have just coached and done okay with it, because I've had good people, but you have to be authentic with your care for the people, not only just your athletes, but also for your staff. And also understand that the athlete and a staff member have an extended family units, who share the journey. And having an appreciation of that, I think it's really, really important because then you're able to manage the what ifs that happens, read any athletes off injuries, or, you know, family hiccups, or the relationship sucks, or whatever. So you really need to have that authentic care. And be aware that an athlete comes to you that they have an extended family unit, that will play a major role. They will have significant people in their lives that you need to know who they are not necessarily intimately or anything like that, but just know who they're going to turn to in their time of crisis. And I think most great coaches are pretty good at grasping the holistic development of athletes and their staff.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 06:49

Jen, you talk about, you know, holistic development and care. And I've seen you're very generous with your time and mentoring other coaches, and I've seen some, some great footage where you say, you know, it's about developing the attributes that young people need for a very full and balanced life. And that leads me to this question of, so what is the role of the coach in a in an elite level basketball team?

Jan Stirling 07:14

Yeah, well, I can also share with you how that all came about. I was very much a rookie coach in the WTO. So the first female appointed to the WTO, from the Adelaide lining, I was asked to talk at a sports festival in LA, the person prior to me was, you know, our most elite, cycling coach, Charlie walk, who at that point in time, virtually had a gold medal factory. That's what he delivered cyclists to gold medal factory. Here is up before me to 2000 odd coaches at this mention how I need to know what the what they're doing every minute, pretty much every day I need to know. etc. And, and I'm sitting there thinking, Oh, my God, we are poles apart. Because, you know, they have to do this training I had, it was so regimented. So I got that. In my rookie, why'd you say no one could dispute Mr. Wolf and his gold medal factory, but I come from a team sport. And actually, I want all my players to have a really balanced lifestyle. I want them to have fun I want them to have[PB2] . I finished my speech. I almost ran out of this place. And I heard this voice behind me and it was David Parkin that I didn't know at the time is just a game game and I'm running through. I turned around it was Mr. Park and oh, my God, and I went back to him and put my hand out fabless, Mr. Parker and his words to me, he said, Jane, you are on the right path. And that's where our kind of like the mentoring relationship between David and I and a friendship group from that day on. So I think with this, Mr. Parker. No one could dispute what Charlie Walsh does with that individual cyclists that has you know, had between you know, point five of a second is a difference between gold and nothing. You know, in team sport, it's it's uniquely different. So, yes, I understand then understanding of holistic development. I've heard from a very early phase and what the role of the coach my main statement of cabinet from the time you have the privilege to coach someone, while a female athlete to the time they leave your program, your role is to make them more resilient for life. And if they have God given potential to be the best they can be in their chosen field of endeavor being sport, right? But at the end of the day, if you're going to have them commit time and effort and you know, accountability and discipline to your area, Did my company more reserved for life and put out good human beings?[PB3] Pretty simple, real?

Paul Barnett 10:07

Pretty simple. But

10:08

basketball? Well,

Jan Stirling 10:12

how did she get to?

Paul Barnett 10:14

I don't know, either, Paul, Jen, the reason I put these podcasts together was for exactly the answer that you just gave. There's something about coaches being selfless, and having a high degree of stoicism, that I think is missing a little bit in the world these days. and developing resilience for life is at the core of having a happy life. So I think it's a great answer. But I have a follow up question. And if this is the goal, and you want to create these holistic athletes that are resilient for life, and of course, some of the rare talent will move on and represent their country and perhaps go further, what are the values or the behaviors that are central to your coaching philosophy to help achieve that?

Jan Stirling 10:56

When I say we're more resilient for life, yes, you and you want them to learn how to, you want them to learn how to be winners and what they need, you want to learn that you have to make sacrifice. You also want them to learn that they have to actually be a competent sometimes and a resource to their own peer teammates, and even someone who may be challenging for their own position in the chain[PB4] . But certainly the values and it's, it's funny, you can write the word, a whole range of values up on the wall, as you're doing, you know, the number of seminars or painting or motivational workshops and or, you know, team building workshops. And I remember going to the parent IE JJ and we want to be accountable, okay? You want to be where, you know, we want to want to have and then you feel that revenue, so well, actually boys, so trust or art. So the strip, I'll use an example of the strength and conditioning coach, to hook up with the family is going to be an hour late into the gym, but the boys are going to get started talking about trust. So if you go in the gym, and you don't you don't think anyone else is watching? What will I see? I'm watching, I'm watching about what will I see you guys do? You haven't got Yes, and see coach there, you've got to get your own programs, you've got to get organized. Well, I see you guys taking control of that situation and delivering on what you meant to deliver, or you slacking off and have a bit of a chat here and etc. So when you talk to me about the very word of being trust, being accountable, having trust, it's about being trustworthy, to do what you're meant to do, when you're not being watched. So there's, you know, those core values, but the biggest one, I think you see, you can't go past passion, or you just can't go past, as anyone who's successful you talk to any successful person in general wants to say, they're really passionate about what they do. And so that's a big one for me, what you don't want as an athlete who is told, well, you're, you know, you're simple to you need to be a basketball player, but they have no passion or desire to be that. So they certainly need to be passionate about what they do. And the big and another one for me is to actually have not just an accountability to yourself, but a desire to add value. And be prepared to try to make the place that you've been in a little bit better than when you found it.[PB5] So we took the word legacies used frivolously at times, Paul, but every athlete that comes to be a boomer or an opal, their legacy should be Have you made that environment a little bit better than when you found it? Or have you helped someone else adjust to that environment a little bit easier than when you struggled with it. The Legacy pieces important and what does it look like? And how can you contribute to making the environment better for the next generation coming through? I think the really important things rather than just the, oh, I'll take what I can out of this, and then just move on having a sense of what legacy pieces and how you can contribute to making the environment better than when you found it to be fairly important to me.[PB6]

Paul Barnett 14:09

Can you talk about I'm going to come back to legacy later in the interview. If I can, I'd like to just save it for the end. Because I'd like to take you on a bit of a journey. You talked about Adelaide lightning, and how you were this young coach. Yeah. And you know, you talked about your time as a rookie coach there. But what I found interesting when I was reading about your time in Adelaide was five consecutive Grand Finals for wings. And I was interested to know how did you keep that team moving forward, motivated, growing, succeeding, without a sense of entitlement without becoming complacent?

Jan Stirling 14:49

Yeah. The first thing is is that the way the lightning was formed is important to this because it can establish the front work I was able to put in prior to the Adelaide lightning becoming a team in the Women's National Basketball League. The way that Women's National Basketball League started was just some club teams from South Australia. And some club teams from Melbourne decided, why don't we cross the border a few times a year play each other, rather than just play domestically. That's how the WTO started. So up until the point of the Adelaide light and going into the league, there were three or four teams in the W envio, North Adelaide rockets no longer and Western light beer kits. So work it out three teams, 10 athletes, and each team 30 athletes, the cost of the league tried to go to a more professional level, the cost for those teams to be engaging the fool who was prohibitive. And also our teams have dropped off in terms of if you like, you know, not necessarily winning the league. And the thing was that they won the league in 19. So we had to reduce three. So you imagine you've had 30 athletes that are playing in the dome and beyond, all in South Australia. And suddenly, it's now one team, you know, I had 30 athletes contact me as a head coach down, I should be starting five in that one team, because I've played 37 minutes a game with you know, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, we made the playoffs exclusively. So I had to call at reduce from 30, down to say 10.

Jan Stirling 16:30

So the first thing I said, so we had this thing about, you know, first thing is if you want to come and play for the lightning, the number one criteria, you must want to be have the passion and desire to be the best you can be or you want to be the best. And there was no no, the best person, you can be fast, and we train hard enough, etc. But you're the good. But if you want you have to want to be the best person you can be. Then the next one was for me, I needed to establish a unique environment. How do you do that? Well, strength and conditioning became a regular feature of the program, making sure that we could do camp, all those sorts of things. So you have to make it a unique environment, which we did were able to do that wasn't about me, it was about accessing. We worked with footballers, over time, we worked with the star division, the police force, and I had all these things going on to make that environment unique. So the athletes within that environment. One thing that was acquired, they had to appreciate the opportunities they were given.[PB7] And so in China, kind of like you had the best people that want to be really good people great ticket box you're in, he will obviously want to work out your ticket box, you mean people that will challenge themselves to do things that you're asked to do previously, such as you know, guys, I need you in the stadium, I need you at the stadium at 5:45am for six o'clock start, so the kids would have to go to work, we can fish now that never been done before. So over that timeframe for we had some I was just blessed to have some wonderful human beings to coach seriously. The sorts of people that we attracted to the line, you weren't people that wanted to better themselves knew they were will care for knew that they are going to be challenged. And after, you know, not necessarily the monetary wise, but in terms of caring for them[PB8] . And and each year, you know, you challenge yourself to mix up the program. And I remember the wonderful writers form, you know, four time Olympian and we happen to be doing a guest speaking gig together. She didn't know I was in the room. I didn't know she was on. She was interviewed by Peter Walsh. And he asked her the question since 10 years in the lightning distance. And he said, you know, Jen's really hard coaches. And she says, especially with the kids, he said, Oh, how can you remind me of trophies in a row replayed in farms? We never missed the finals in 12 years. And right, the greatest compliment you have as a coach is when she says she says you know, trainings are just always interesting. We will there will always vary and we never ever got bored with jam. So, as you say, what's the stimulus you use? You got to change it up. As a coach, you've got to learn and grow. You've got to speak to other coaches. How can you make this environment if they're going to give you we play 22 games in the National League season. I remember doing the stats once we will try and 340 times for 22 games 314 times working out on the number of days sometimes it's twice and often cost I demanded a lot from these young women. But they all came back. There was a lot of fun, a lot of learning and yeah, they deserved. They deserve to be stimulated. And that's another role of the coach to make sure you stimulate your athletes.[PB9]

Paul Barnett 19:56

Well, this experience sets you on the way to take over The Australian team, which you did in 2001. And then you go on this amazing run of success that culminates with the gold medal at the 2006 World Championships. And I, it's a similar question to the Adelaide question, actually. But what were some of the things you did first, when you took over the opals?

Jan Stirling 20:18

Well, I've been an assistant with Tom for a while anyway, so and then. And look, to be honest, when the applications came out, I initially had no intention to apply. And then a few of my and take a step back with the lightning, I used to also write to government for funding. So I got all the government funding or he sponsors really different things, responses that they wouldn't do. Like we would send them a personal card at the end of the season signed by all the players to thank them, which often those companies will put in their boardroom. You know, chairman's, and so I'm going to send them a letter I said, well, in warmer spots, I expect a letter from the chairman, but a card signed by the team that's a bit different anyway, so we did all that. But going back to the, to the opals, you know, I had to, I've been with them for a while. And when I the first campaign we had, which was in my after the 2000 Olympics. And so if you looked at the Oakland team that played in Sydney, 2000, you know, wonderful result silver medal tonight, and next year, there was only one of those items that was present in the East Asian Cup in May the next year, because all the others had gone to Europe, or across to America, because they had been on hold for 12 months in Australia, not earning their larger wages from the European state. Because Tomas if you stay if you want to be picked in the city, 2018 stay home. So they all forgone obviously, they're larger salaries. And of course, when I came in, I knew I just said, Well, they've got to go, they got to go make the money, they've had a year speed, like anyone saying, you're not going to have any money for you to stay here. What are you going to do the next year, you're going to go. So for me, I had to certainly change things up and get their students there. And I was a very different coach to Tom mask, that was another one. But they all love trauma, or most of them did, some of them didn't. So for me, it was about I guess, just letting them know that the standards of the opals and trying to sustain success was going to be very, very hard to achieve. It's one thing to sort of get into the top three in the world, it's another thing to stay there.[PB10] And then I was just very fortunate that at every major, we call it a benchmark event. But in every major event that the opals played in, during my time as a head coach, we got on the podium, we didn't miss a podium once. So the challenge for the group was to say, look, is Sydney or about? Or can we sustain success by continuing the journey together, and then bringing in some new blood, and everyone just bought into it, which was really, you know, fortunate for me. But it was a different landscape. Because we did ride lightning, if I one of my nicknames on radio in Ed live used to be metal Hitler. Believe it or not, I get introduced. We've got metal people on the line, James Sterling saints, because I always had when I say it was hard, but the girls and put up with my hands sometimes because of the fact they knew I cared, you know, some of them, I had to feed them because they never have money and all those sorts of things. The overalls, all that was different ballgame. I've actually came in and had this all star team who knew more than me. So my delivery style, Paul had to change. I had to and you know, coaches evolve. So I couldn't be as direct because, wow, you know, I'd have no other objects and I knew the healer you think you are, you know. So it was very challenging to actually, one accept that I had to alter my delivery style at times it not to appease them, but to get the best out of them.[PB11] You know, and that's the other thing is that it's one thing, if I had a disabled I got, I'm the head coach, you're gonna fight the opens, you just do it my way. That was never gonna work. So I had to kind of like get that balance of letting them know, I care as much for them. I understood that they had to go over to Europe and earn their money. I understood that I had to stay in contact with them. You know, when they come back? Well, you know, why am I starting five and all that sort of stuff. So you just got to manage the expectations of athletes that come in from an environment where they're the actual absolute star in their professional league team, that they've come into the halls. And they're not necessarily that absolute star. They're a very integral and important contributor to the openness but not necessarily the orientation. Stop. and managing those expectations was something I had to learn pretty damn quickly.[PB12]

Paul Barnett 25:07

Well, these days, hello, not these days here with basketball Australia, but you've also worked with the Port Adelaide AFL club on their player leadership program. And I'd be really interested to know, what are the key components of an elite player leadership program?

Jan Stirling 25:22

Yeah, and that's interesting, because at the time, I've been invited to the podcast, because mark williams knew me. And in fact, he wanted me to go about a year earlier, but it was leading into Beijing and just couldn't give them the time that they needed. And that had several leadership models, as I filled out, so just get another consultant in to take the boys through a leadership program, etc. And so I come on board and you know, you had at that stage you had david Rhoden and he had the corns brothers, Chad and Kane and, and guys who have been in the system for a decade or two, then I said, Well, Mark, they're not going to I don't want to sit through some sort of leadership workshop with Jan's doing. So again, adjusting to the environment. I went to that group of guys just took him for a coffee and said, Guys, I'm gonna work with the other group, you know, the ones that have had this maybe been in the club two to three years, I can work with them and, and and have a look at how they want to develop this solid value system. What do they want to be known for? You know, the legacy piece? How do they want? You know, how do they want to contribute to the port power? For you guys? Can I tap into you? All of you fine, gentlemen, as my knowledge for guys. So I made this knowledge brigade with the power where if I say to you are look, you know, Jacob over there, he struggled a bit, can you put your arm around him and help him out with something you don't mean? So I had this kind of like knowledge Brigade, that I just drew upon a time because I had leading teams, I had corporate leadership models, I had all this stuff. But the last thing they need to do is maybe stand up in front of them and tell them about leadership. I mean, seriously. So very quickly learn that. There's no one leadership model that fits all, at the end of the day, Paul, I still think it's about the values and the behaviors that you instill. And how are you gonna be your true leadership comes through when there is chaos around you, and you're still able to deliver to the best of your ability. In other words, you can still stay focused on the task and deliver to the best of your ability, when there is absolute chaos around you.[PB13] Now that chaos could be in a footy club, that could be you know, as happen at the pair, the CEO hates the head coach and whatever, that's chaos that the boys cannot control. You know, if a coach gets sacked, you can control that board make decisions, for reasons we may not know, how can you stay on task and stay focused, and do your job and focused on what you need to do, and still be true to yourself and still true to the client, or you can still deliver on your values and behaviors in the best possible way, while you're in this quadrant of chaos. And that's when I think good leaders stand hold true, is they can still function appropriately. Lead, and more importantly, be influential leaders. Everyone can lead but can you influence others? We can also be sure you're really I'm sure you're an influential leader. By the way, Paul, I'm sure you'll have more you run. But can you influence people to actually then thrive and deliver on the values and behaviors that your environment post? Highly? Can you influence people to embrace that and then deliver and then influence the next group of people? So in our more into influential leadership, rather than just saying who your best leaders, the best leaders, the ones who can influence our debate,

Paul Barnett 29:08

Jen, might be an impossible question. But can you teach influential leadership? Is it possible? And what would be in the syllabus?

Jan Stirling 29:16

Our leaders born or our leaders? I think I think it's a bit of a combination. Paul, I think you can I think it can be part of it is inner for sure. But I think you can teach it whether the person is recipient is like me, you know, had I not made changes? [PB14] You know, I went to my first World Cup with the locals. The Australian sport because we've had a hiatus of players for submission semi Jan, you need to stay top five for your funding. No pressure. You need to stay top five. We got on the podium, didn't we? Paul? We did we just we got we got that bronze medal. And so I'm thinking so plan aggramar get back from overseas. Jen need to come remediation, immediate action. What are you talking about? We Just want to go on to middle, we only had to come top five, well, pretty good. I said no, you need to come to mediation with, you know, a 20 year old in the team is not happy. Okay? So I cannot divulge any names or any more I, you know, I went to this mediation. So there I am the doors in the 47 year old coaching, and ongoing remediation is trailed. There's not any of that, sadly. But here's the thing, Paul. And that was my first gig with the overage. I'm on the wrong side of the white lines to really make a difference in the game. Understand that? I'm not in the field applied on a coach, I'm on the sidelines, there's only so much I can do. The players on the court are the most important people, clearly, they make a difference. I don't, I can guide and so for me, I just sort of said, okay, but issues concerns, I'm here to listen to them. And in terms of that, and we're going to talk about being influential. So you're influencing me to I'm here to listen, but what you don't realize today, don't you ever, right? So here's your chance, give it all to me now. And I'm sure we can work through this. And we can both come out of this better, which is you know, all that happened in the less of the stuff that so in terms of the influential path, that particular young athlete now is a mature age athlete has gone on to be quite an influential leader in her own life very much. So at that time, a superstar who really was talking on behalf of a, you know, a 30 year old and attainment, I knew all the reasons why. But that young woman is now quite influential later. Back then she wasn't influential, she was a superstar, wasn't happy, blah, blah, blah, pretty much mainly about self knowledge. 10 years experience, nurturing development, growth, input by a lot of people is now an influential leader. So it can be taught, it's whether that person wants to flick the switch, and understand that they can be better at what they do[PB15] . You know, you and I are sitting here we're breathing air, we're still alive. I don't know about you, but I'm on I'm still on my learning continuing life. The Learning continuum of life, for me, is each and every day, can you do something better today than we did yesterday? Can you help someone a little bit better today than you did yesterday? Can you influence someone today that needs some influencing for the for their own benefit. So it's an everyday thing for me,[PB16]

Paul Barnett 32:43

I've got this great quote from you actually, it says, as a coach and not a finished product, there is still plenty to learn, cheer and do. And I'm just wondering, you know, we've had locked down we've had this period of reflection, and I'm wondering if there was anything interesting that you learned or discovered during the last six months.

Jan Stirling 33:09

I suppose. For me, I've been very fortunate that having been adopted at birth by two parents are clearly wanted both my sister and I. So both my sister and I were adopted. And having come from, you know, humble beginnings. And in fact, we lived in low socioeconomic, we used to ride our bikes and pick up the famous Bruce McAvennie and go to high school together quite often pick each other up and ride through five prime minister High School. And so I suppose what I've learned started from an early Foundation, and that was, you know, my father's eulogy, when I dad always said to us, he said, Jen, don't be too quick to criticize or be critical of others. Because unless you walk in their shoes, you don't know why they do what they do. So I think for me, my learning in life is and quite often, when things when you've been a head coach for when things don't go your way, you can get pretty damn aggressive about, they didn't do this for me because it made me this or you know that the board needs to give me more latitude, whatever it is, can be really, really harshly critical. But end of the day, you have to take a step back. And just understand that sometimes, decisions are made by others who may impact on you. But you can't criticize it if you don't have the information. And so, what I've learned is that share information so people can make an empowered decision and don't get critical. If you haven't given them the information they need to make that decision. Then don't don't remember that they made that call. And as I mentioned earlier, off air with you was affected. In general coaches in Australia are very collaborative and care And sharing of their wisdom and knowledge. And we all learn different things along the journey. But for me, sharing information, and even with your athletes or your staff, giving them the full picture, so that they can make an informed decision is probably one of my most biggest learnings. give people the information they need to make an informed decision. And then that way you can come in be critical. And understand too, that it might not always be the answer that you want. Sometimes,[PB17]

Paul Barnett 35:35

no, it definitely can. And I'm conscious that I've only got a short period of time left, because you've been very generous with your time today. And I want to circle back to where we started, which was, he talked about legacy. And I would like to ask you, as you sit back and reflect on this, this long and illustrious career that he's still going, but what is the legacy you think you've left behind so far?

Jan Stirling 36:03

I can come up with a very politically correct answer. So you have to ask others.

Paul Barnett 36:09

No, thank you

Jan Stirling 36:10

look for this question comes up from time to time. Hopefully, you've influenced others too. And I think I have in many ways, and I'll use an example of what my legacy has been in one way when we I got to coach my first Olympic team. And before we went to Athens, 2004, given my Adelaide lightning journey is the reason why I was a head coach, the success of the lightning clearly played carrying weight in me being appointed the head coach of the groups. I remember writing, I remember the number 78 handwritten cards, and I write a legacy card, by the way, all right, you know, a lot a lot. And it was to the faces of the parents of every athlete, it was to the partner of every athlete, and then it was to arrange of our corporate sponsors, we then go to essence, then have the group together, like Trish found and Christy Hara wonderful, gracious, we had some fencing, Sandy bomdila was in that team, you know, had some fantastic athletes. And I just challenged them. And I said, Hey, you know, now that we're all here together, have any of you given thought to actually, when you get home, wanting a car to someone who actually will be home watching you with great interest that might have impacted on you really early in the study or journeys might have been you? And straightaway, the girl said, Oh, he went on to 10 coach was really fantastic. Do you know that every one of them did that? And fast track it now to now. And I know for a fact that there's some of those athletes that I've engaged with over time that say RJ one of the best things, you know, I do I actually send that email, of course, but I actually write to people now and thank them. And I, you know, when I get to something, or when I want my MVP, I wrote back to them and said, thanks for sharing, you know. And so, I'd like to think my legacy is that I've helped people embrace a little bit more of thanking and being having gratitude for the journey that you've had an understanding that even if someone's only had you for one season, that when you're an open, and you're getting that little render it may they own you, like but let them know, they mattered to you. And that they contributed to your journey because they kept your interest or, you know, you're ready to quit, and they talk about whatever it is. And it could be your grandma around it could be struggle system, but just make sure that let them know that you appreciate and you're grateful for how they've impacted on your journey. At some stage, there might have been a time when you didn't make the team but then you made the next one or whatever. And I know for a fact that some of those fantastic young women that I've been privileged to coach, a lot of them do that now. So that will be that's the only legacy or no, it's pretty much the only one on our planet anymore. That's it.[PB18] I like it when that happens. And you nice to have an athlete now JK news play for the opensim get to a benchmark event. She's been Oh, she's got four wonderful daughters over in America. She's live every Christmas, I get the card and the updated photos of her daughters. I get the email that says Jane, I know I send you this every Christmas but you impacted so much on my wife. You know, so you know, and there she is sending to me something that reflects gratitude. So that's a week. That's a win for j Can you because she's a fantastic human being and as you know, so doors will learn that from it. So yeah, so that's probably not much gratitude, having gratitude

Paul Barnett 40:00

For an amazing way to finish this interview, Jen, I can't thank you enough for your time. It's a I feel so energized after chatting with you and I can't wait to share this.

Jan Stirling 40:12

So hard to get hold off.

Paul Barnett 40:15

No problem. Thank you so much Jared. I appreciate it is

Transition 40:20

the great coach's podcast.

Jim Woolfrey 40:24

Hi, it's Jim, you've been listening to our discussion with the razor sharp Jen Sterling, the general manager of high performance with basketball Australia, I was completely captivated by Jen's powerful story about gratitude, and her no nonsense approach in working through player coach mediation, and how both of these examples delivered connections that still live long after the coach player relationship has ended. Jan's passion for building influential leaders and her perspective of true leadership being one's ability to consistently deliver your best when surrounded by chaos, and lessons that will stay with me in my own leadership development journey. Paul said, Well, this was a true master class. Coming up next on the great coaches podcast, we speak with former Indian international cricketer and the current coach of the Indian women's cricket team, WV Rahman.

WV Raman 41:16

So my son has been that I always tell the captain that until the 4k asked by the game, I'll be sort of more active, I will be saying a lot of things to the massive required, but from the time that we got to get into a game, which is 48 hours before the start of the game is all yours. You're the you're the person who's handling the prayers. You're the person who will be saying what needs to be said, a soul, your ship and you're the captain and the team from then on in 48 hours leading up to the game is going to be handed over to you and I will be staying in the backdrop just before we go.

Jim Woolfrey 42:01

coaches are not usually the type of people who seek the spotlight. And so if you can put us in contact with a great coach that you know, has unique story to share. We would love to hear from you. You could contact us using the details in the show notes.