The Great Coaches Podcast Episode 019
Wed, 2/10 9:02AM • 50:00
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, golf, golfer, hit, shot, steve, pga tour, fairway, kj, play, practice, ball, sport, swing, caddies, yips, technique, players, confidence, won
SPEAKERS
Jim Woolfrey, Paul Barnett, Intro, Steve Bann
Paul Barnett 00:01
Welcome to the great coach's podcast.
00:05
To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard after this is a chance you can understand the person and you can then work towards a common goal. We
Intro 00:16
are all on the same team. Now you do it to the best your ability to focus on the fundamentals. We've gone over time and time again, has got to be better.
00:26
We've no
Intro 00:28
great moments are born and great
Jim Woolfrey 00:32
opportunity. My name is Jim Woolfrey. And you are listening to the great coach's podcast where we interview great sporting coaches to try and find ideas to help us all lead our teams better. Our great coach on this episode is one of the world's most successful golf coaches Steven ban. Steve became a professional golfer in 1979 and played on the Australian PGA Tour until 1996. His coaching career started in 1990 when he was appointed the founding head coach of the Victorian Institute of Sport, Steve has coached over 40 majors, including 19 us masters and six presidents cups. along the journey. Steve has coached Stuart Appleby, Kj joy, Robert Allenby, Cameron Percy, Nick Flanagan, he young Park, Jennifer Johnson, and Danny Lee, just to name a few. Steve has also written for golf instructional books, the most popular simply golf back to basics, which has sold more than 300,000 copies worldwide. The highlights of this discussion for me were how Steve describes that negative confidence works 100% of the time, but positive confidence works 50 to 70% of the time, and Steve gives great examples of how you can improve both forms through training. He also shares a great story of Kj Choi winning the 2010 Players Championship in a playoff to illustrate this, tapping into the aha moments in practice by focusing on trying to do something rather than not to do something. And how there are about 6500 skills that every golfer can learn. preparing them for these variances means that the coach is often in the words of Steve, a glorified racecar mechanic. We hope you enjoy this as much as Paul and I did the great coaches podcast.
Paul Barnett 02:28
Steve Ben. Hello, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Steve Bann 02:33
Hello, Paul. Thanks.
Paul Barnett 02:34
How are you today? and probably a better question Where in the world are you? And what do you been up to?
Steve Bann 02:39
I'm at New Haven in Singapore. And in Victoria. It's three o'clock in the afternoon. And we're in about well, we're in regional Victoria. So we're not in this sphere, a lot of them but they are just basically down here on property playing with the chickens and misshapen a veggie garden waiting for golf to start up again.
Paul Barnett 03:01
Well, we're glad to have a bit of time to talk to you about golf. Because when I was preparing for this episode, and I mentioned to some friends that we were speaking to a golf coach, they all gave me a list of questions to ask. So hopefully we can get through all of them in this, this shorter we got together. Steve, I'd like to start though by winding the clock back if I could, because you became a professional golfer in 81. Now flash forward to 2020. You've coached in over 14 majors, including 19 us masters and six presidents cups. So I'd like to start by saying from this perspective, what is it you think that the great coaches do differently?
Steve Bann 03:38
Well, I think the great coaches, if I can put myself in that category, and thank you for mentioning great coaches. But look what you do, to have a long relationship with any with any client, any player and to be continually working with at the major tools, you've got to be more than just a Swing Coach. So the great golf coaches, the great coaches of any sport, have the ability to identify what their athlete needs right at that time. So they can play at their play at their best. So when you're coaching in a major course you're not working on the golf swing you most times you're working on shots and strategy and the other skills so they can play the best that best that week.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 04:22
Which brings me to my next question, actually. What is the role of a golfing coach for today's professional golfer?
Steve Bann 04:31
Well, I think it's changed. changed a lot. You know, I was I was working in the US, I guess nearly nearly 30 years. last 25 years, pretty much full time over there working on the PGA Tour. But back then basically I had a coach and some players had a trainer and some would go and see a sports psychologist every now and then. So the golf coach back then had to be everything had to be holistic. You had to be the mental coach. Sometimes the physical coach Sometimes the strategy coach the technique out these days, the specialist coaches, this padding coaches, this short game coaches, the strategy coaches, there's mental skills coaches, there's that there's nutritionists to it, because it's such a big money sport now. And it's the team that's in the background. Now is is is quite large that travels with the sub travel with a lot of these top players. Now, not all of them have that many support staff beside the role of the coach, the head coach is to coordinate all of that, so the player can just go out and play.[PB2] And I think that's probably changed a lot in the last 2530 years.
Paul Barnett 05:41
So then how would you describe your coaching style and philosophy,
Steve Bann 05:46
philosophy, I would pride myself on saying that I'm holistic, being that golf is made up of technical, physical, mental, tactical, and life skills, outside of all that, so there's the big, there's the big five and, and I've never tried to lock myself into being a method coach, where this is the method that I coach, and everyone has to fit in, and swing it the same way. So I'm always trying to identify with the players I've worked with over the years, what areas of their game that they can create a point of difference or separation from the rest of the field. Otherwise, you're just playing like everyone else. And hoping to have a good week, every now.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 06:31
Actually, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about this, I think you call it the improvement cycle model where you say, you know, a golfer has technical, physical, tactical and mental game must be constantly in focus. And I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about the improvement cycle model. And I think probably how you've applied it to some of your, your famous athletes
Steve Bann 06:54
will have that the the improvement cycle first starts with an assessment. And there's a self assessment. And there's an external assessment, and let's say it's technique, because that's quite often the easiest thing to, to assess. So the idea is that you make an assessment of an area of your technique that needs improving, and then you put a goal in place of of improving it, and then a strategy with skills to improve it over a set period of time. Now, typically, there might be every three weeks or every four weeks, if it's every three weeks. In theory, you could do seven, eight improvement cycles a year. So you go and do your drills over those three weeks, you come back, reassess, and it starts again. So that's seven, eight times three gives you a week off for Christmas, by the way, so it's just constant, never ending, never ending improvement.[PB4] But sometimes you might run an improvement cycle for for two or three months, it depends on whether it's a short term or long term thing. So the same could apply for physical, something physical, something mental, something tactical, and something technical. But technical can also go into skills. So there's a lot of skills in the game from 11, sharp categories, and nine different shapes with all of those categories, not counting winded lies. So there's about six and a half 1000 skills that every golfer can learn. And that's a bit like a bit like music. When you finish one face. You go back to this now, to start another one, it's it's endless, really, you don't need to have all of those skills or anywhere close to that many to be able to play World Class golf. So it's not that intimidating. But the idea is we're always trying to find something that's going to give you the edge so you can play with a little bit more, a little bit more confidence. So the improvement cycle, as the word cycle suggests is it's make an assessment, set a goal, put a strategy in place to achieve that in a timeline, and then just keep going round and round. It's basic, that's the basis of goal setting.[PB5] Six and a half
Paul Barnett 08:55
1000 shots I hadn't I had no idea. I'm a very poor amateur golf the plays a couple of times a year. But if you're watching a professional, are you able to highlight or find the one or two or three or four shots within that six and a half 1000 that need improvement? Or does that take analysis and time and no statistical evaluation?
Steve Bann 09:19
Well, you're very, very rarely will it show up in technique because it's the technology for you know, using, you know, launch monitors now like track man flightscope body track, we can measure pressure, pressure mapping, swing catalyst through the through the feet and high speed video. I mean, we have got 240 frames a second now on my iPhone. Were back when I started at the Institute of Sport back in 1991. I think we had about 120 frames a second on the system called Vikon system which is about $100,000. So now we've got you know, the ability to use it. video on a phone and then send it overseas for somebody to look at it and you know, within within a minute, so the technologies change, but very rarely will it will have anything to do well, it will have to watch to learn the technique of that skill. So here are the 6006 and a half 1000 skill sets. So there's 11 shot categories. So there's driver, fairway middles, long short irons, chipping pitching, bunkers, long, mid and short putts. So there's the 11 categories. And each of those categories, there's nine different trajectories except for the balls on the ground. So it's uphill, downhill, right to left, left to right in the four points in in between or low, medium high, draw or fade and strike, this is all in perfect weather on a flat line, then you've got eight lies, which is uphill, downhill, right to left and the and the four points in between, and then you've got eight wins, so so it's sort of 11 times nine times eight times eight. And then we haven't even got into rough humidity altitudes. So the job of the golf coach is always trying to find out, okay, we were playing in Denver this week at 7000 feet, the balls gonna fly about 20%. Further, we need to make some calculations. Now we're going to be able to play the sound. So it's a lot of fun. I'm a glorified race,
Paul Barnett 11:22
race car mechanic. Sounds more like a science than a sport to be. To be perfectly frank, I found this quote from you. And now I can see actually, with that context, why this quote came up when I was researching, it says, negative confidence works 100% of the time, but positive confidence works 50 to 70% of the time. So Steve, I was wondering if you could share a story of how your coaching has helped you improve the confidence of a play and therefore lead to better results.
Steve Bann 11:53
Look, I think, if we really want to summarize mental skills, the one mental skill we're all looking for, is confidence is that belief that I can hit this shot, right now what I need to, I need to hit this shot, and I believe I can hit this shot. And we've all experienced that at different levels at different times, even if it's only every now and then, you know, during the round of golf.[PB6] So the idea is that we pick the skills that each golfer needs to play. Well, now, those six and a half 1000 don't need anywhere near that many. But everyone needs to have a stock shot off the tee, they need to have a good short guy, which covers all the shots that they're going to get within inside, you know, say 80 to 100 yards. And, you know, their approach shots and they've got to have a wind shot and the holdup shot but you don't need the six and a half 1000. So what we're trying to do is put together a practice program with a package of all the shots that they're likely to encounter at the series of tournaments coming up. And then within that practice program, build confidence, then when they find out that they can actually play a shot, you are building a form of confidence in the fact that you know, you can play. So this is where I might say something like well negative Congress works 100% at all. So you might have been working on a five iron sights shot from 180 yards. And you just can't get you can't get the fight shot. So you get to the tournament, and the pin stacked on the right, you're 190 yards out and the caddie says well I think we didn't need to say to five iron in here. Your brain knows because you've been practicing that shot that you count it so you get up and try and hit it anyway with a thought in the back of your mind that you know you can hit it and that negative confidence will work 100% of time you will hit a terrible shot. Because if you picture hitting a terrible shot, your film shooting is a terrible shot you set up anticipating get a terrible shot and you succeeded. Beautiful works every time.[PB7] So you know the unfairness of not the unfairness but the beauty of golf is that if you have been practicing that fine line fade from 100 190 yards and you're succeeding well in practice and then you get up you recall that practice success you've got the cat equals the 180 faded in there so that that tree faded in there you get over it see it feel it and put the swing on it just like you want to put on and only about 50% 70% of the time will have actually come off because gasa our guy but then the thing is that that that you can you can build on that because that you know that you technically didn't do anything wrong. I made the swing or saw the swing or felt the swing I made a good swing at it and the shop just income off. So then you know that's that's gone. But if you're standing up there thinking you got a stuff up you will succeed 100% of the time.
Paul Barnett 14:57
Steve is there a an example of a story You could share where you've helped the athlete, the golfer lift their confidence and it's just led to a special moment a result that was perhaps not expected.
Steve Bann 15:11
I would say look there's there's lots of them that I'm thrilled to have been a part of. And the caveat there is I never squandered any of those shots so I can't say too much too much credit credit for it. But Kj Choi was known for his fade and that was his snapshot was his was he's trying to end his nemesis at the planet championship the seven eight pole at sawgrass which was never sister for a lot of for a lot of people and we've been working for a few months building up so being able to hit a draw in left to right wind when he needed to we could hit it in practice but we were testing it and really raising the sort of the pressure level and the number of repetitions that he had to succeed so we're building his confidence so he could recall that practice success and hit him in a tournament Well, the Players Championship back in 2010 kj is coming down the stretch and it's pretty much toe to toe with David Toms and David Toms had a one shot lead playing the 15th hole and it was a backlift pin and Kj had about a five already and the wind was out of the left now that in the past was a shot that he would lose off you know, sort of right inside of the green most times possibly Mr. Green have to chip up and save his car. Or Kj is hit this beautiful draw that's held up against the wind and seeded into about 10 feet. Tom's has hit the green he's made Takei Jays missed the putt. But the next hole I go down 16 Dave Tom hits it in the water with a one shot lead makes a bogey so now they're tied. The seven eight fold a penis on the right hand side front right which is always is on Sunday and the wind is into out of the left. Now that is a shot where Kj normally would just start will lift and a best hitter to about 40 foot left of the pin and have to make a big tube out over the rise down to the hole because if he starts anything just lifted the pin into we hit the fire it's it's it's in the water Kj gets up and hits a nine iron that he started at the pain of the ball starts to turn away from the pain of the wind holds it up, it drops down about 15 feet just over the over the over the water 15 feet makes the parts of dirty takes one shortly. Tom's bird is the ident kj ventually winds in a play of back on the civil end. So what actually happened at the start of that week was we actually practiced every day for over on the left hand side of the range from about 150 yards, sorry, the right hand side of the range into a left to right wing with a nine iron and to just practice drawer after drawer after drawer hitting into that left to right, we're in for that one shot. When he had the chance to hit it, he actually drew on the confidence of the running, you know 15 got up and hit it on 17 and you know went on became the first Korean or first Asian to win the prize championship. So it was a pretty special moment when you saw when you understood the background of how he had the confidence to actually hit that shot. Under all that pressure, one of the scariest holes in golf.
Paul Barnett 18:27
Great story. Thanks for sharing it, Steve. But could I circle back actually and just talk about the role of the caddy? So it sounds like the caddy maybe steps occasionally into coaching territory? Or is there a real Is there a defined line between will what they will and will not say?
Steve Bann 18:43
All depends on the relationship with the client and they and they carry out some candies, Carol, I mean, they're the copilot. And they you know, they do everything but tight and tight the controls. Others are basically just carrying the bag came out and shut up, I think see the outside but the and there's another saying in golf, there's a question. And there's a statement. And this is the relationship between a player with a caddy. When the player asks the question, what shot Do you think I should hit here? Then he expects that caddy to have all the information to give him a definite answer of this is the shot that you need to play here. Now the good caddies will know all of their stats and all the percentages of all the shots that they succeed in under pressure and he's not going to pull out a shot but he knows that his players a good chance he's not going to not going to pull off so and then there's the question and then there's the statement. And this is where sometimes caddies cross the line with pliers says, I like five line drawing here and the caddy goes normal, not the five or draw. So then he ends up crossing the line even if the caddy is right and he falls The player away, talks him into another shop. He's undermined the relationship to the future and that players own self confidence because he'd made a call and the caddies gone I don't think you can just, you know, and that's, that's probably getting close to the exit door for your job with that play.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 20:18
Steve, can I talk about the yips? When I told some friends we were I was going to interview a golf coach. And I said what questions should I ask all of them? All of them want to know and want to talk about the yips. Now, I should give some context because I and I hope I get this story right but you unfortunately I guess or fortunately depending on which way you look at it have first hand experience with the IPS and there was the the 1988 Australian masters where you slip from first to seventh and the final three halls. These days, I imagine professional golfers amateur golfers all people want to talk to you about it. And I'm wondering how do you help golfers do deal with the yips particularly you know when they're in a pressure situation like that.
Steve Bann 21:05
Let me firstly sort of define the difference between the the yips is half you have probably multiple setbacks like I had at the Australian masters you know, I had a two shot lead with three hours play. I wasn't supposed to when I was a club pro at the time, there was six of the 10 Top 10 players in the world Normand Felder Langer and his me as a club Pro with a two shot labor three hours to play. Now, right up until that point on the day was 900 for the day, and all I was thinking about was hitting a close and making paths. And then I stood up in the 16th hole. And I remember my mindset changed that the out of bounds fence was on the right hand side of hunting down on the 16th hole back in ADA, and that was and then the left hand side was density train that that's where all the crowd, the crowd couldn't go up the right hand side. So there was I did my apprenticeship but having doubts. So there was a lot of huntingdale members, there was the club pro box hills, there was a lot of Box Hill members say I live in Melbourne. So there was a lot of my family members there. I was a member of river style. So there's a lot of river style members there. So I got halfway through the downswing. And I remember thinking this is important to five, the second By the way, the tail on the downswing takes a remember thinking, don't hit it out of bounds. So it's the first time that I don't hit it out of bounds. And then there's this involuntary mode right here, it's taken over, I've hit the snap, whoa. Now the reason I mentioned all those people there was I was hoping that it was going to at least hit one of them. But it didn't miss the whole lot of all those people who want to play and ended up on Clive law took a took a double bogey. And then, you know, did something silly on the neck, stole a ram or power pack, and tried to make and ended up feeling it too far past and missed the world coming back, which wasn't, wasn't as bad. And then the last one, but the mindset changed. I remember clearly, for the first time I thought I can win this, and I tried not to do something. And that was, you know, no research, how to perform under pressure. You know, up until that point, but then that was sort of the start of my question. You know, if I'm going to be a full time golf coach, which that event pretty much delegated me that. From there, I became the main state coach, and that went on to become the Institute of Sport coach, when they introduced golf into into Victoria. Had I actually won that tournament, I would have got some stats IV CS, in order to go on back playing full time, I would have missed those two opportunities. So I still to this day, call it a fortuitous Chuck. But that was more of a choke than the ifs now that your question was the IPS. Now, the IPS is very much an involuntary reflex. The neuro neurology neurologists tell us it's it's a thing called neuro shutdown, which is basically when your brain is anticipating something so traumatic, is about to happen, it actually shuts down and it's like shuts down and puts you into like sleep mode. And then there's this sudden start as you come back out of it, which can be a twitch or great players hit the ball off the ground from three feet away. Because it's such a, it's not something that you can you can control. So the hips and a choker. If you keep on choking, you'll eventually end up with the hips, but the two very different things. How do you overcome it? Well, you identify any part of the technique that can be improved. And then you develop a practice routine where you test that and then slowly and consistently build confidence over time. And then you've got to have the discipline to choose recalling that practice success and have the willpower to get through that in a competition and then when you do your brain goes home. I can do this and then you, then you're off and running again.[PB9] Answer. So hopefully, hopefully it makes better sense for some of you some of your questions,
Paul Barnett 25:10
people asking the question, I'm sure my dad and my brother will be taking notes and replaying that section. But what I am is not,
Steve Bann 25:16
there's no quicker, there's not there's no quick fix pill, it's there for a reason, because of a technical flaw. Or because of a, you know, you get in your own way mentally. So you've got to find a way to train yourself to get the right mindset and improve the technique. So you can actually get that shot.
Paul Barnett 25:37
I think it's also great illustration of mindset, how you saw that sliding doors moment, taking you in a different direction with your life that I guess in some ways leads us to this conversation today. I'd like to talk a little bit about self doubt, because just getting building on that idea of boundaries, and you talking about that story in the fairway. And you've said that the biggest problem or limitation with golfers is boundaries. It's never the target. And I'm wondering, how do you help golfers deal with self doubt and intimidation because I imagine it, it must creep in quite regularly. so much time on the golf course walking, thinking getting sort of trapped in your own head.
Steve Bann 26:16
It look, it all comes down to your preparation again, but the biggest intimidation in golf is the boundary. Here's the problem. If you look at most practice fairways, and this is one of the things that I did find even my own practice, we get comfortable with the shop that we like hitting. And we're just swinging away on this wide open practice fairway with a stack of balls there. And if we don't like the shot, we just pull another one over. And here's another one, and we get into this beautiful groove. And we think I've got it, you know, I'm just flashing shot after shot after shot. And then suddenly in between there and the first tee which might be less than 100 meters away, and is in most cases, you wander over there. And you look down the first fairway and your brain goes, What the heck is that. And now there's trees, bunkers out of bounds, fences, rough water hazard, the next group standing around watching you, and all of a sudden, you've got all of these boundaries and restrictions as to what's on the outside the middle of the fairway was no threat at all, until you actually put a put a boundary there. And I've always used the plank of wood, you know, this might be a one foot wide plank of wood, five meters long, put it on the ground, you say walk up and down, that plank of wood never walks up and down the plank of wood, no problem at all, you lift it up a meter off the ground. Now walk up and down the plank, you're a little bit more careful. Now you lift the two meters off the ground. And eventually you can see where I'm going. So now when you're 10 meters off the ground, and now on all fours crawling across the plank of wood. It's still the same plank of wood, but it's what's on the outside and the consequence, which is what's the intimidation, it's not the actual fucking walk up and down this all day long. So how do you fix it? Well, you set up boundaries in your practice. And then you practice three in a row skills. And it's as simple as that. And you get that we use the 10% rule. So if it's a 200 yard shot, you put a 20 yard boundary out there, because that actually matches about PGA Tour average, from all the different distances, they're averaging about 10% from the king, or 10% from the fairway, so, so 20 made of bamboo. Now you've got three in a row through this. So the first one's easy. The second one's easy, easier, not as easy. And then the third one, now you feel exactly like you feel out on the golf course. Because if you don't get that third one through, then you've got to start again. And you just keep doing that three in a row until eventually you can stand up, they caught that third shot through there. Then when you take that under beta wolf to the first tee, you look up and look down the theory and you get this is just like a three in a row, I'm going to do it again. That's all there is to it. It's as simple as that. If you if you simulate what you're going to feel in practice, you've got a much better chance of recalling their practice success and executing it on the golf course. Steve, you
Paul Barnett 29:08
have really interesting views on using positive emotional anchoring. Could you tell us about this concept, and how you work with golfers to apply it.
Steve Bann 29:20
One of the things that I learned, you know, years, years ago, and I didn't know this when I was when I was still playing but there are a big fan of all a lot of these mental coaches, performance coaches, but I love a lot of Tony Robbins stuff and Stuart Appleby early in his career did a Tony Robbins course. And we as we as he was going through that we're talking about a lot of the things in their course and one of the things that Tony Robbins talked about was everything that stays in your long term memory is because there's an emotional shift attached to it. So we remember things like birthday parties first kiss first At school, falling off your bike getting in a fight at school, nobody remembers what you did the day before the day after. And so sometimes it's a positive thing, sometimes it's a negative thing, that everything that gets anchored in your memories, because there's an emotional shift. What we tend to do when we practice is with let's say, we're hitting 10 balls, so you hit nine balls, just the way you want to hit them, and there's no emotional shift, and then you hit a bad shot, even in practice, and then you get angry, you get frustrated, you get disappointed. So the only time there was an emotional shift, even though you just hit nine out of 10 shots, well, the only time there was an emotional shift was when you hit the bad shot. And if this continues on this, this approach to your practice, and eventually, the only thing that you're storing in your long term memory is the is the fires, and they become easier to recall, because you've actually anchored them with an emotional shift. There's no way you can be a robot and have no emotion. So what you got to do is be more balanced with your approach, everyone's going to get angry, everyone's going to get frustrated, everyone's going to get disappointed. But when you hit a good shot, get excited, get pumped up, get happy. And then that way, because you're hitting more good shots than bad shots is if you balance out the emotional shift attached to the to so much more fun way of playing golf, then what sticks in your long term memory is the successes. And they even though the other ones are still there, they'll pop up, you'll have the ability of pushing them to the background, because you'll be able to recall more success because you've chosen to have a good positive mental attitude towards when you succeed, rather than Oh, well, I meant to hit it well, because I'm a golfer. And that's what we've always tried to do. So when I see a player getting angry and frustrated, I don't tell him to calm down and, and not get angry and frustrated. I tell him to get more excited about the good shots, until eventually you get more of those than the bad shots. And then what happens is they tend to get less angry and frustrated with the bad shots because they know because they believe that you know, I've now got myself back on the right, right mental approach. I'm going to hit more shots and bad shots. And that's that's the that's the way golf is played.[PB10] I mean, if you're a seven out of 10 golfer, on average, you're the best in the world. So nobody's getting everyone, right.
Paul Barnett 32:28
So Steve, I wanted to talk actually, you mentioned Stuart Appleby there, and you have a long relationship with him as a coach, and I'm wondering if you could just talk about your most successful moment with him in that player coach relationship.
Steve Bann 32:43
I first worked with Stuart when it came down to it, he was a part of the junior state squad 17, nearly 18 years 18 years of age. And you can always tell it was something special about Stewart he was very, very determined, very hard work, we'd only been playing golf for a couple of years, a bit like Greg Norman didn't start golf till he was 15 or 16 kj joy, again, didn't start till he was 16. So this, this idea that you've got to start at three to become a world class golf was just, it's just not true. But Stuart was good at all sport. One of the things that I noticed about Stuart was if I gave him a challenge to do, he'd always do more. And it was never not doing that. He'd always do more. And he was also fiercely determined and competitive. So it wasn't about winning or costs. But if he if he didn't win or perform the way he wanted to, he just go and get by himself and work and work and work until we've worked it out. And then come back and have another crack at it. So never shied away from from anything. So you start to identify, identify that sort of, you know, very early on, but look, we do a lot of goal setting with the state squad and then with the with the Institute of Sport. And one of Stewart's goals was he wanted his first PGA to win by the age of 25. Which is great. Well, first, you've got to get a PGA Tour card, you know. So you know, it was a fair way to feel it down the track. But it but his whole goal was about I'm going to go and play on the on the PGA Tour. He turned pro had some good success early on the second tour here in Australia. And then he headed off to Canada to try and play over there. And a few weeks later, he's back. And he came out of the house and said what are you doing? What are you doing back? You're gonna go canneries, it's useless. It sort of looked at that. There's very limited opportunity playing on that Canadian tour to get only a strain on the US tool. So I'm just wasting my time over there. So I said All right, we're going to have to go up to Queensland and play the troppo tool like we all did back in the old days. In any seminar, I'm going straight to the States. I'm going to go on, I'm going to get my go to school over there, which you could in that day, go through all that those go through all the stages. So I'm going to get my get my card and we'll get there that way. So, so which he did, you know, went through played up in Queensland when after the US goodies card for the second tool, gone on that in those days. It was only top five got the PGA Tour card. Stewart won his first event on the second tour, which was called the Nike tour back then became the Korn ferry tour now but history one is free first event in Mexico in a seven hole playoff against the Mexican guy he was lucky to get out of Mexico alive. Anyway, he won two times that year on the second tour, and he was age 23. This stage, finished top five got his card on the on the main tool, played all year on the main tool didn't quite make the top 25 finished about 128 had to go back to tools school, went back to school Cody's card. Then, Honda that year, which was about his fourth event or fifth event of the year. He won, he won his first event at age 25 on the on the PGA Tour first and nine wins and 11 or 12 seconds and a $30 million career was a pretty handy, pretty handy career. So
Paul Barnett 36:31
when you say what's your biggest success being a part of that process from 18 to 25, a young man who was determined he was going to get on the PGA Tour and went on the PGA Tour by 25. And he must have been very satisfying actually to see one of your charges. move on and actually give you some edification that the techniques that you were teaching back then and the VIPs were working. So congratulations. And look once again, I didn't get a shot. Sometimes that's the best coaches. They just don't have any experience in the sport at the elite level, but they're able to tap into to the the energy and the education around the sport
Steve Bann 37:09
was Yeah, that was that was pretty special when you work with a player. And that was my first real PGA Tour winners. I mean, I've given lessons to a baker Finch and Wayne Grady and players like that over the years, we've won on the on the PGA Tour, but this was actually somebody I've coached for six or seven years at that stage. You know, Edison had his first week. So it was great.
Paul Barnett 37:35
Steve, you've written multiple books about golf. And I've also heard that you said, You've said that there's more books written on golf, and both technique than any other sport every other sport combined. And I tried to ratify that on Amazon, but it was too hard because they don't give you numbers. So I'll just take your word for it. But I wanted to.
Steve Bann 37:56
I heard that. Nobody, nobody come up with any evidence that it's not true. And it makes sense. I've only got a look at my library down there. But yeah, right. Throughout history, there's been many, many books written on on golf, because that's the nature of the game. Everyone does the answers got to be in this book. But we're not part of the problem. I mean, there's everyone's got multiple golf books and magazines and DVDs. And no, we're not right for a lot of the problems. Sadly, inflammation. It's a bit like going to Dr. Google, there's a lot of self diagnosis goes on out there. And then the old saying paralysis by analysis is too much information out there for a lot of people's own good.
Paul Barnett 38:40
Is that the problem? Because you've said that, you know, there's all this information out there actually in golf is just on improving. So I'm wondering, are they hopeless or golf is just hopeless optimists, or is it simply not possible to improve beyond a certain point given your, you know, your dynamics?
Steve Bann 38:56
Everyone can be a lot better I few years ago, I gave her a client, a friend of mine, longtime friend of mine now he'd never had a lesson of me played golf for 30 years and never played off a handicap of better than 19. And we'll walk out a golf tournament together. And Andy was talking about how frustrating was that he's had hundreds of lessons and I turned to him. I said, You've nevertheless not me. He said you wouldn't want to get paid unless he said you are the Yoli coach good fighters. They said you would want to get realist and they said I'd be your worst nightmare. Anyway, I said, I want you to come in, have a series of lessons off me you've never played off better than 19 in in 30 years. He said no. And I said I wanted to have a series of series of lessons. I said, I'll give you a full money back guarantee if I can get your hair to get them. Well, he came along and we committed to having a series of lessons I think was over about 12 weeks. We're gonna have one lesson a week over 12 weeks and I mapped out improvement cycle. And for training factors in the confidence cycle, the stuff that I've been doing to apprise Institute of Sport, I said this all applies to you is that I haven't got time to do all of that. I said no, and how it's, it's, it's, it's at your level. So we, we have the improvement cycle model we have elite a great big right C grade and novice say you identify where you are a more novice, a C grade A B grader, I go in all of those categories. And when we're just going to keep going through these little improvement cycles in all the key areas of your game, and see how we go. So cut a long story short, about four months after we started his shot 77 off the stick in the first round of the club championship. And his handicap came down to 11. It's possible for everybody, but it needs somebody a bit like a personal trainer, because it's so easy to get sidetracked and go into what we call the reactive cycle in golf. And the reactive cycle is spending all day trying not to make the last mistake you made. You know, try not to swing too quick, try not to get off the backfoot try not to come over the top of it. Try not to hit it fat. So your brain doesn't hear anything other than the message. You know, it's like don't think of the color red, or color you're thinking of all red, you know? Yeah, so don't, don't hit it. Fat is the only message you give us in there. So getting people in that mode have always tried to do something in the improvement cycle, it is possible. And look, I've done it with a with a career tragic golfer who probably had more golf books than me, he stuck to the plan. And he still to this day, even though he's getting into a few years old in their place, you know, in between a handicap of about 12 and 15. So comfortably. So that's after 30 years of many lessons and buying every new set of clubs that came out and every driver, part of that he never got any better than nighttime. Everyone can get back.
Paul Barnett 41:59
Steve, what do you enjoy most about being a coach,
Steve Bann 42:02
just that what I just explained. It's just, it's three how to identify. Here's another story which I you know, I'd love to go back and play again, like everybody goes, you know, if only I knew back then what I know now but but there's only three ways a golf swing changes, there's only ever three things running in the background in their nervous system that cause changes in the golf swing. So my job is to identify those things. And when I do identify it, it's sort of like an aha moment. That's what it is. And then when you tap into that, you start to see the swing, change and contact the ball flight or the or whatever start to engage, the student just lights up because it's just, I've never hit a shot that solder. I've never compressed the ball like that, I'll never hit that, that draw shot. But so here are the three ways the swing changes, which goes back to all of those books. The three ways that a concept, as far as a reaction or reflex, or a physiological change concept is inflammation. So there's books, DVDs, golf lessons, self analysis, so there's no shortage of information out there. But the two biggest reason that golf swing changes is as a reaction to something, or as a physiological change, which you could say is a reaction to something. But normally, if it's a reaction to a ball flight, so the slicer slices the ball into the right trace. These days, there's no shortage of information. So you say to the slicer, what are you supposed to do? Well, I suppose to get to the top, I'm supposed to shift left, drop the club down, swing from the inside path, and release the club. So they can tell you all the things they're supposed to do. Okay, hit a shot for me. So they get up, spin off the back foot, leave the face opened carpet into the right trees. So would you do that for now, I can't stop doing this. I know what I'm supposed to do. But I can't stop doing it. Because the reaction is much stronger. And you're reacting to the ball flight, the fear of hitting up to the right is what causes the action that makes it go to the go to the right to beautiful thing, which is what I've got a job. So the only way you can fix a reaction. And this is what I was lucky enough to tap into a long time ago now is you can't fix a reaction. With concept. You can understand the reaction with concept, but you can't fix it. All you can do is change the ball flight that caused that reaction. So if somebody's slicing it to the right, teach them how to hook the hell out of it. Just get up and teach them out of Oakdale out of it. Just go and then hit enough of those hooks where they can then balance the whole thing out. So rather than trying not to do something they're trying to do some. I'm now not trying not to slice and they're trying to hook the ball. And then you teach them the technique of how to hook the ball and they're broke. switches in doing mode rather than trying not to do mode, and I get up and start getting some books. Now the fun thing for me is that they come back and go, you know, there's just as many trees on the left side of the fairway as the right, I never knew that. But at least I can hit a rock shot now. Anyway, the third wave changes as a physiological change in that age, injury, fatigue, diet, other activities. And once again, if your swing has changed because of a physiological change, you can't fix it with concept. You can't fix it with the reaction, you have to you know, get back stiff, because it's the start of spring and you're pulling weeds out in the garden. And because of that, you're lifting up and topping the ball. You can try like crazy not to lift up and drop the ball, the fixes, go and get a message. If I take a nurofen, you've got the physiological changes, what's caused the swing to change to fix the physiological change?
Paul Barnett 45:56
Steve, you've got such energy for coaching in You are so articulate, and insightful. I guess I didn't realize there was such a psychological element to playing golf. But I'd like to sort of last one, I'll ask one last question, if I could. And it's this, it's what is the legacy you think you've lived so far? As a coach, I know that you are still going and you're not finished yet. But you've had a great journey to this point. And you've influenced many, many, many golfers along the way and how would you describe the legacy that that is behind you so far?
Steve Bann 46:27
I'm very proud of the fact that I was one of the founding was the founding head coach of the Institute of Sport, one of the founding coaches that realized there was much more to golf coaching than just fixing golf swings, and giving a golf lesson. So I kind of paved the way, you know, with a group of people that I've worked with for many years for Korea, golf coaches in Australia, in these people now, that's their full time job[PB11] . But back when I first started doing it, most of the time you got a golf lesson, there was very few full time, full time golf coaches. So from that point of view, I, you know, I'd like to be remembered, remembered as one of the founders, creating a career opportunity for, for full time, full time golf coaches. But as far as, you know, changing the game, you know, this game around for a long time, I think I've helped a lot of players to get to where they want to go. I'd like to be remembered, I guess, for being, you know, genuine, empathetic person who really[PB12] , really cares about the student, or the person that worked with being the best that they can possibly be. And, and I think that is why I can say, I've had such long relationships, you know, over 30 years with Stuart Appleby, and Kj, you know, to go to Ukraine for 10 years, most of them get sacked. You know, six months is a long time to work with, with a Korean player that all the players have work with, and all the people that I know, right, throughout the career, I can, you know, pretty comfortably sit in the room with all of them and know that, you know, I gave my best shot when I was when I was helping them with the golf game.
Paul Barnett 48:11
Steve Bannon, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a wonderful discussion, and I can't wait to share it with my father and my brother.
48:19
Paul, enjoy talking to thanks for the great coaches podcast.
Paul Barnett 48:25
Hi, everyone. It's Paul here. And you have been listening to our discussion with Steve Ben. The key highlights for me were his thoughts on positive emotional anchoring, and how focusing on it will allow you to improve your game, the relationship between the golfer and the caddy and the boundaries that need to be respected in order for this relationship to work well. And the differences between the yips which he describes as an involuntary reflex and choking and the practical advice he gives on handling both. I hope you enjoyed it as much as Gemini did. In our next episode, we will be speaking to the inspirational Penny cooler read
49:02
someone and everyone's always going to tell you that you can't do something or you're too short, you're too slow. You're not fast enough,
49:11
you know,
49:11
you don't have the right body type, etc, etc. And for me during that time, all I could think about was stuff you like how do you know what I can't do? You have no idea what I'm capable of. And when everyone sort of said to me, You know, I don't understand why you want to play 41 because I bloody love it too, because I'm pretty good at it. Three, it's because you said that I can't. And just before we go,
Paul Barnett 49:38
coaches are not usually the type of people who seek the spotlight. And so if you can put us in contact with a great coach that you know has a unique story to share, then we would love to hear from you. You can contact us using the details in the show notes.