The Great Coaches Podcast Episode 022
Wed, 2/10 9:03AM • 41:59
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, players, team, playing, servant leader, people, helped, game, year, camaraderie, win, great, easy, australian, australia, sandy, buy, develop, sports, driven
SPEAKERS
Jim Woolfrey, Paul Barnett, Transition, Sandy Brondello
Paul Barnett 00:01
Welcome to the great coach's podcast.
00:04
To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard after
00:08
this is a chance you can understand the person and you can then
00:14
work towards a common goal. We
00:16
are all on the same team. Now you do it to the best your ability to focus on the fundamentals. We've gone over time and time again,
00:25
has got to be better.
00:26
We've known
00:28
great moments are born and great opportunity.
Jim Woolfrey 00:34
My name is Jim Woolfrey. And you're listening to the great coach's Podcast, where we interview great sporting coaches to try and find ideas to help us all lead our teams better. Our great coach on this episode is Sandy brown dello Sandy is a former professional basketball player, and now a coach in the W MBA in America. Sandy started playing for Australia at the age of 18. She went on to represent the national team at four Olympics and won three medals, one bronze and two silver. She has played basketball for teams in America, Australia, and Germany. In 2003, she began her coaching career as an assistant with the San Antonio silver stars. She became a head coach in the W MBA in 2010. And then, in 2014, won the national title and the coach of the year with the Phoenix Mercury, where she is still coaching. In 2017. Sandy was appointed head coach of the Australian women's national basketball team, the opals. The highlights of this discussion for me were Sandy's observations that great coaches are very consistent in what they do and who they are. And this helps them to know what buttons they can push to get the very best out of their athletes. Coaching today, and the W MBA has changed from where it started 24 years ago, in that the coaches can scout the opposition more and therefore change their game plans accordingly. You'll hear Sandy mentioned being a servant leader, that by putting the needs of her athletes first, she is able to help them develop to perform to the very best of their abilities, and how she gets tremendous satisfaction from coaching people who were able to grow and develop. This was a Down to Earth conversation with a great coach who just loves the challenges of what she does. I hope you enjoy it as much as Paul and I did the great coaches podcast.
Paul Barnett 02:43
Sandy rhondella. Good morning to you, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Sandy Brondello 02:49
Thank you. It's great to be here.
Paul Barnett 02:52
I would like to ask with a really deep meaningful and challenging question if I could, where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far?
Sandy Brondello 03:01
I'm actually back in Phoenix, Arizona, in America. This is where I live when I'm not obviously traveling around and playing in a W NBA season, in a bubble in Florida. So I've been back just under two weeks after you know, once you lose your out, it's kind of a an abrupt ending to the season once you've done that, but yeah, Phoenix is my home and Australia, I get to go back there fairly often because of the Australian team. So I kind of like that.
Paul Barnett 03:28
Well, we are very happy to have a little bit of your time today after having such an intense period in the in the bubble. So I would like to start this interview, actually, by winding the clock back a little bit because you've had a great career. Now, there's still a long way to go. I know. But already you've had exposure to some wonderful coaches, Dan Hughes, Carol Ross, Adrian Hurley to name just a few. So just an easy question to begin with. What do you think the great coaches do differently?
Sandy Brondello 03:58
Ah, that's a you know, that's a really great question. But I would probably say I think they're very consistent in what they do, and and who they are, you kind of know they're not going to change from one day to the next is systems or their personality. I think consistency helps players because you kind of get to know you know, what buttons you can push and what you can't push, basically. But at the same time, I think the great coaches are also adaptable to the players that they have. And that's what makes them special. They're not like this is the only way that we can play. I think that's the, you know, it's coaches, you got to kind of adapt to the different talent levels that you get the changing styles. I mean, that's what's changed over the years how it's played. So adapting to the players. I think that's what makes a great players, great coaches great[PB1]
Paul Barnett 04:43
actually talking about adaptability. You've been in the NBA for 21 of the league's 24 years, which is quite amazing. And I'd like to ask how have you seen coaching evolve over that period?
Sandy Brondello 04:56
Look, I think that it's been great coaches, even when I was you Way back starting, they were all different as you know, it's quite interesting, I think, you know, and that was a great journey for me because, you know, you kind of see, okay, that worked. What was what was so great about that player, that coach and style that I as a someone that obviously went into the coaching profession could take a few things away from it and learn from those certain experiences. But I think the biggest thing are right now the difference coaches back then were great, too. They're great now, but I think it's more, it's more scout driven. I think we scout opponents probably way more than what we do. And we're able to change some of the systems on the fly a little bit like adding plays or being a little bit more creative and how we want to, you know, maybe I'll pick and roll scheming. So that I probably would say that, but I think it doesn't, back then they will experience coaches and hear things experienced coaches, and, you know, maybe probably more coaches now, probably a little bit more relational. But I can't even say that all the time, because I've had so many great coaches that had, you know, they'll relational to that, which made them special, in my opinion, as well.
Paul Barnett 06:04
You're famous for many things, but one of them is your work ethic. I know that you grew up in the top end of Australia on a farm. My wife grew up on a farm too, and she still complains about the chores to this day. But I'm wondering, what elements of your coaching philosophy today? Can you trace back to that experience growing up? In the top end of Australia?
Sandy Brondello 06:27
Yeah, firstly, I mean, I loved being a country girl. And you know, it's I'm still a bit of a country girl at heart, I still speak a lot of slang. I know that much. That so that hasn't lost me. But you saw that you how you how hard your parents worked. I mean, my mom was a stay at home mom, but she still had four kids, you know, taking care of but being a doctor, daughter of a sugarcane farmer. So you see all the hard work that goes in to making sure that you have a great crop. It's terrible when you have to rely on the weather. But you know, I think hard work, obviously, dedication, because you got to be dedicated to your craft to be to get the best crop that you can, you have to have discipline. And, you know, I mean, a lot of great traits that, you know, I get to learn from there. In Well, you know, my brothers used to work on the farm, too, once they left school. So a little bit of teamwork, but our understanding, you know, my dad was the boss, but teamwork to make sure that we could get the best crop we could every single year.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 07:26
It's fascinating talking to you about it. There's such a connection between your early life and the traits that you're known for as a coach. But you've also said that you've had a wonderful career played all over the world. But you've also said you get more satisfaction from coaching, than playing. And I'd like to ask, what is it about coaching that you like so much?
Sandy Brondello 07:46
Yeah, I know, I've said that a few times. It's interesting, I loved playing, don't get me wrong. Now I've been in 17 years playing for the Australia, that was a great highlight. But you you faced a lot of adversity as well during that. But I think that adversity helped me to be who I am now, I was able to play different roles. But you know, I wasn't always the star or the star of a team and the understanding how to play a role and be effective. And because it is a team game. But look, I suppose coaching, you know, obviously now I'm in control of all those players and trying to get the best out of every single play, because they're all important. It's not just starters and bench, I try and make them know that they're all important for the overall success of the team. And I think that gives me satisfaction. And in the wins and losses is more about you know, let's make this a great team environment. Love the challenge, but and then through the losses, obviously, let's learn from them, and to make sure that we can be a better team the next time.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 08:41
You talk a lot actually in interviews, about camaraderie. And one of the reasons you chose I understand you're very good at other sports. But one of the reasons you chose basketball was that sense of camaraderie. And I'm wondering, you know, in sports where the financial rewards can be significant, as can the fine line between performance and poor performance? How can you still build that sense of camaraderie and goodwill, in teams that are so professional at that level?
Sandy Brondello 09:10
Look, I think it's just really the passion. It's the passion that each and every player brings, because it's a team game.[PB4] You always look back. I mean, I always I don't remember schools, some some of my teammates, former teammates like Rachel Smith, and she goes, Oh, we want that by three points. I remember the memories of with the players, you know, what players were there. And, you know, that camaraderie, I mean, that's obviously lifelong. And I enjoyed that process. So I think the most important thing, the camaraderie is like, you know, having that right culture, and that we're there for each other. You said the other queens, I was an Australian champion in long jump at the age of 12. But I was a shy girl growing up on a country farm and, you know, I liked being around my friends that I liked, enjoy the successes with somebody else, not just you know me and And that's, that hasn't changed. Now, I said, it's a team game. And I think I get way more satisfaction when we do it as a team. But the best successes and the most memorable ones is when, you know, obviously, the teammates that I had, and, and now I have, obviously, you know, I'm the leader of the team. So culture is important. And that's from me as a leader all the way down to, you know, obviously, the equipment manager, and, you know, my training staff people are gonna, you know, I think we're enjoying the processes process of playing basketball and winning games. And they're the things that you remember,[PB5]
Paul Barnett 10:34
culture is such a big word. There's values in there, there's behaviors, there's respect, there's all kinds of things. If, if you were to give someone advice, they're moving into a new team, any kind of team, community group, work group, sports group, what would you tell them, they need to do first, to set up and build a winning culture?
Sandy Brondello 10:56
I think the first thing you have to do is build relationships, you know, obviously, in anything, because without that you don't build trust, even like this year, you know, obviously did a lot of zooms and had only five players returning from last year. So you know, my first thing that I did was just build relationships, get to know them on a personal level, kind of where they're coming from how they tick, you know, and I talked about, you know, I like to say it's a family. So I kind of understand that, um, I think I'm very, you know, I'm very honest, but I'm very fair in my leadership, like, I'm my, my job is to get the best out of them, you know, like, be a servant leader. But you know, the biggest thing is, you know, if you get those relationships, it's easier for especially, you know, your culture, your best players have to buy into that. And I think, obviously, if you see, you know, I can be the leader, where it's relational. But you know, obviously, I'm the leader of the pack, but we're all in it together. I think that's, that's where we've had the most success in all the teams I've been on.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 11:54
Well, talking about success, your 2014 team wins the league, you're awarded Coach of the Year. But they're actually also regarded as the greatest team ever to play in the NBA so far. What was special about that team in that culture that made them stand apart?
Sandy Brondello 12:12
I had champion players that were very selfless, Mr. only concerned about winning. And now that's, that doesn't always happen. You know, and that was my first year in Phoenix. Obviously, that was a dream here. But you know, the, the foundation was already in place with the players. And it was just me coming in and putting in a system that I thought would complement the players. But in the end, it was the best players buying in, you know, Diana Taurasi, and Penny Taylor, to one upon our canister Prix, and Brittney Griner were my starting five invest superstars in their own making. But for us to have the most success, they had to buy into doing it together, in they did. And we had five players in double figures. But look, you can't win with just five players. So it's like, you know, the roleplays had to accept their roles on the team, for it to be successful. And, you know, season metal, I'll never forget, I'd like to get back to that it's really hard to, you know, we only we went 29, and only lost five games that whole year, which is really amazing, the league gets stronger and stronger every year. So you tried to, you know, get back to that, you know, we just had really good people, they're all about winning, so it kind of made my job easier. But when the best plays buy in, that was the difference. And when we just took one game at a time approach, and everything, you know, just kind of worked for us and like, yeah, great[PB7] memories,
Paul Barnett 13:36
anything special you did to get them to buy in any moment or event?
Sandy Brondello 13:41
Now look, I think the biggest thing was I was coaching Diana trustee as an assistant coach in a GIMP girl in Russia at the time. So you know, I think obviously, she saw the work that I put into it. And, you know, obviously, the relationships, I had the players and my thought processes and how we should play the game. And I think she really helped me get that job to be quite honest. So she went into bat for me. So I see when a player like that, you know, obviously that's your leader everyone's looking to and she's, she thinks this is the right way. And she's buying in and, you know, that just trickles down to all the other players. And like I said, I think I'm up. I'm a former player. So I'm really big on relationships. And but that was an easy one of the easier years to be quite honest, because I was just very driven and and wanted to win and win together.
Paul Barnett 14:25
You know, you've talked already in this, this discussion about treating players like family, you've mentioned that word and read the importance of relationships. And it's great that there's also this line that coaches have to find, you know, getting to know players intimately enough to be able to push their buttons. But also being able to stand back and make decisions for the team and finding that line is really difficult. And I'm wondering if you've got any advice for other coaches on how to find that light that balance?
Sandy Brondello 14:52
Well, I think it's about the culture that's set. So every year before I started season, I Get the players on and I talk about, okay, what's important for us to be the best team that we can be? And it's driven by the team. It's not, I'm not a dictated coach, I'm not, you know, we're going to do this, this this, because then I wouldn't have buying, it just doesn't work. Now, maybe it works for you many, many years ago, but it just doesn't work now. So it's more like, okay, but what culture do we need? What are the what's important for us to be the best team that we could be? And obviously, you always hear about, you know, there, and this is driven by the players. So I'm taking notes and, okay, you know, I let them all talk and, you know, accountability is always up there. You know, so it's like, okay, you want accountability, so that they want that, that makes my job easier? Look, I'm, like I said, I'm a very positive coach. But then I when I need to get on Am I can because well, this is what we've agreed on. So you know, when it's driven by Team values, I think that makes my job easier. And I'm not someone that rants and raves every single time. But when I do yell, I'll get their attention. You know, because it's like, okay, yeah, okay, I can go to a limit. But when we're not playing the right way, or playing together, or this bad body language or selfishness, I mean, that's what would get me going and enables me because I've already we've, we've set the culture together as a team. So my job is just to go out there and be the leader, you know, I'm the leader of the group. And, you know, I have to make sure I'm keeping it all together. Because if I don't keep it together, you're not going to have as much success as you would like.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 16:36
Are there any other values or behaviors that are non negotiable for you really central to your philosophy as a coach?
Sandy Brondello 16:42
Yeah, look, I disliked selfish place. And look, you know, some of the best players you have to be have a little bit of selfish tendencies, because it does make some great, but I'm talking more about, you know, obviously, making the right decisions out there. We talk about good to great, you know, let's give up a good shot to get a great shot. So that's ballplayer movement. That's teamwork, paint to great making sure we have good versatility and not just shooting outside, we're getting penetration. So and I've been lucky that I want that I've got players that want to win in that that comes down when you're forming a team, we look at that. What kind of player can she come in and play the role that we need her to play?[PB9] So it's us building teams to net doesn't doesn't always work, then that's not to say, I think I can bring one in and say, you know, okay, I think she can buy into the hell we want to play. And sometimes if they don't, at the pro level, well, they're not here next year. You know, that's the thing. But another thing I dislike and, you know, for women, they so hard on themselves, you know, it's so like emotional, like, you know, trying to communicate to them. Sometimes I have to let them work it out themselves. But I don't I dislike bad body language when it affects other people. You know what I mean? And, you know, sometimes they get down on themselves, but they don't realize how it could affect somebody else. So they're things that I try and control, you know, how can you be the best player on this team and, and they're the non negotiables that, you know, obviously, I have to make sure that they're buying into[PB10]
Paul Barnett 18:08
it's funny, you sound like such a balanced coach, like such a calm individual. And yet, when I read interviews, the word intense, well, particularly as a player, you are known for your intensity and the depth of your preparation. And I'm wondering, when you crossed over into coaching did you have to learn to manage that intensity and to step back at times?
Sandy Brondello 18:32
Yeah, that's funny that you think people think I was intense? I was. I was driven. You know, I was driven in terms I wasn't someone that go out there and be trash talk. And not only trash talk when someone would talk back to me, but not even by words. I do it by accident, to be quite honest. Because it would you know, Hey, come on, you know, driven like that I let my out my game do the talking. Because I don't think I'd be a great trash talker. Anyway, I think the intensity people talk about is I love the game. You know, I still love the game. That same passion is burning since the first day that I touched the ball at the age of nine started playing basketball. So I think it's in my preparation, I worked extremely hard. I sacrificed a lot of things to be the best player I could be, you know, missing out on weddings and births and holidays because I needed to train going out. So probably people probably think oh, it's narrow, focused, and maybe sometimes a little too much. And that's what I I can relate back to my players now you have to have a balanced approach. I went too far one way in my younger years like okay, you know, can't do this Can't you know, go out drinking, I got a practice tomorrow. But now it's about balance. I don't need to train every single day because sometimes those days are really going to help me. So I think that I bought the same thing to my coaching be quite honest. I just love what I do. But I do realize I still need balance and I think how I'm being a mother that helps me be more balanced now because you know, times in my kids made don't always think that I'm clicking off[PB11] . Because I'm busy, especially in the bubble recently, it was hard to click off because I was just preparing for the next game non stop. But you know, they kind of come home and, you know, My son will go, Hey, bear like mom, you know, give me an evaluation. And that kind of brings me down. Yeah, it takes my blood pressure down a little bit like Yeah, okay. And I'm, that's something I've learned. Now I've learned from my playing, experience that over to the coaching, I can do on something overnight, in the next day, I have to move on. So that's, that's one of the traits I have, I have to move on. Like, I'm not going to go to practice and be a grumpy old. I can be grumpy. I do that on purpose sometimes, but I'm not going because we played so bad. It's more like Well, what do we need to change? I'm not the coach that comes in and just, you know, unless I have to do it for a reason. I try and move on to the next day. And I think I'm easily evenly balanced like that now and, and I learned that from my playing career,[PB12]
Paul Barnett 21:00
tactician, psychologist, train us motivated Teacher, what part of coaching is it that you enjoy the most?
Sandy Brondello 21:09
I mean, all of it really well, I love like building the relationships. I love the preparation[PB13] . Obviously, putting game plans together the scouting watching our opponent and coming up with the game plan to to help us I like everything you know, kind of at the start of the year developing the playbook and but not being scared to change it if it just doesn't work, think I'm adaptable. And like that, I just love the challenge. And and I love coaching at the highest level, because obviously you're going every single day is a you know, it's hard to win in this league. There'll be NBA and obviously World Championship and Olympics, I just love putting a team together and seeing them come to get together and working on areas that we need to build on. So I love every single process of being a being a coach being a head coach or being a leader. But you know, I like to say I'm a servant leader, you know, my goal is to make sure I'm not a micromanager of my staff I select you know what you need to do or step in where and when it needs to like even my training staff as well too, because we're all specialized in what they do. But I love when it's you know, obviously teamwork, and we all have the same aspirations, and we want to be the best team we can be.[PB14] So it's everyone just, you know, doing their roles to the best of their ability.
And I try and make it a fun environment. And fun doesn't mean it's not hard. But you got to enjoy all the struggles along the way to enjoy the successes on the way. So I think I just loved the whole journey from day one of training camp until the very last day and, and it's always, like I said the last two weeks and just got out of the bubble. But it's kind of know what to do with myself. I've just been busy for so long. I'm lucky that I'm also the Australian opals coach, so I can start planning for that next one. And getting on to that because, you know, just having, you know, I like to have purpose with what I'm doing. And, you know, and areas I know where I can still get better at. So that's what I that's it. It just keeps evolving.
Paul Barnett 23:11
I'd like to ask you about fun. But can I just take one little sidestep? You mentioned servant leadership twice. Was it to the book or the course? Was there something that particularly resonated? I know, there is a famous book, I haven't read it. But is there something that connected with you that when you came across that theory?
Sandy Brondello 23:27
No, not really. I mean, I've spoken to, you know, you see other coaches, when you say, you know, some were dictators, some are, you know, authoritarians, and some were player, coaches, some are certain coaches, just the way that they, they cared about each individual. And that's what I think like I care, we talk about family, I care about each individual that's on the team. And even though they're no longer on the team, they're still a part of my family. Now family means like, you know, that doesn't mean I'm their best friend. But they know that I'm there and I have their back. So many coaches put so much effort into me, which I'm forever grateful for, because it helped me to be the best that I could be. And that's my job. Now, as a coach, I want them to make sure they had that same passion that I have. I mean, and I can't give him that passion, but they have it I want to make sure I'm growing that passion in the right way. Because so many girls now obviously stopped playing sport for some reason. So I want to make sure I'm helping you know, women and girls along this journey that I think when you can see some fun and you can you know, make it some fun and enjoy that the team environment that you have, that's when you can have the most success. And that's what you remember the most when you look back in 20 years or so.[PB15]
Paul Barnett 24:41
But you also you also said there's fun in the struggle and what really connected with me actually just today I was reading an article in the press about not having scores in junior sporting matches and I I don't like that idea. I think there is something in the fact of struggling and moving forward. Can also be fun. And I know that your appearance, how do you feel about building a resilience in, in children, but also building resilience in your athletes?
Sandy Brondello 25:10
I think it's, it's really probably one of the most important things, you know, how, how do you handle adversity? And that's what I tell my kids to, like, they know about my career, but they never got a chance to watch me play or anything. And you know, they're starting sport and you know, basketball and soccer that my daughter, they think everything was easy. You know, you went to four Olympics, and you've done all this. And I'm like, but it was, it wasn't always easy. You know, I said, 1988 Olympics. I was young I going on 1920. I didn't play one minute. So and I said, Do you think that was easy? You know, I said, it wasn't easy, because I was a competitor. But I realize it realized it was a part of my journey. So and that's what I talked about, you know, like selfish, like, you know, understanding your role. Obviously, that wasn't my time. So what did it It wasn't, I look back and it's like, well, what am I going to do? be poor me? Well, if I start being selfish, and all that, being an individual on call, but that's not going to help me to be to play a bigger role moving forward. It's all I did, I worked harder, you know, worked harder, I was the fittest I could possibly be. I was very coachable. So great teammate cheered him on. And my time cam that following year, I was already in the rotation. You know, I'm not talking about my club, Tim talk about the Australian team, the very best So, and then it was a process then I was, you know, 2000 Olympics old starting and then, you know, 2004 was more like, you know, playing big minutes. But I realized that my role was there to mentor the younger players and to help them. So, you know, everyone sees only the good things, but plays even at the top, they go through so much adversity, but I think that was a defining moment. For me that kind of helped to be the person that I am. And that's why it's so important for my teams, I think the most successful teams handle adversity. And if you then really how do you how do you grow as a person and that's right, you know, how, or as a sports person is through the negative experience. Now I try and make sure that and you know, I know you've read a quote, for me, I say, and I stole it's not my quote, it's, you know, that lesson of the experience is always positive, even though at the time it was negative, and it's very painful. But sometimes we have to go through those hard times, to fully appreciate the good times of successful times. [PB16] And that's how I'm driven like Leo losses. I hate losing.
But that's why I told you is like all in, it's not about I know, it's I blame other players, I always blame myself, I'm my harshest critic, there's things I could have done better. I don't point the finger on, what can I do better. So that's why I look at it and like, Okay, I need to be better. And it's, you know, continue, you're not going to win every single game better. There's always lessons to be learned every single game. And that's what I do as I reflect, and then I earn, and I then I move on to the next game. And hopefully I can be better. And that's why when I was applying every single day, I went to work to be the best I could be. I wasn't trying to be, you know, someone else on my team beat them out. It's no different. As a coach, I want to make sure I'm learning from those experiences, and making sure I do a better job next time. [PB17]
There's always going to click over, there's always something to be learned. And that's the joy of this game. I love the competition. I love the challenges. And but they're great learning experiences. And I try and pass it on to my kids, because you know, they just want things to come too easy. You know, you're not going to get satisfaction if things are too easy in life.[PB18]
Paul Barnett 28:34
Although in defense of your children, they are shuffling between Russia, America and Australia pretty regularly. So that must be a good lesson in resilience for them, you know, moving around so often. No, my children at this I don't know
Sandy Brondello 28:51
any different diet. So but you know, yeah, exactly. No kids, you want the best for him, but they have to sometimes go through the negative ones. And your thing is you got to just be there for him and help him along the way. And that's why I say like being a certain coach, you know, you want to help them, you know, they're going through some tough times, how can I help them, sometimes they got to help themselves. But you got to make sure that you're there and providing the support. That's, you know, that's what we do as parents, that's what we have to do as coaches to but you know, sometimes the the great players, they have to want the help to be able to continue to grow.
Paul Barnett 29:22
We interview we were lucky enough to interview Eddie Jones, the coach of the English rugby team. And he had this really interesting insight and he said, Look, we was talking about how he coaches younger, younger athletes, you know, and he said, You don't try to solve the problem for them. You tell them the problem, you tell them you ready to help and you let them sort it out. Whereas the older the older players want want want more guidance and direction. How do you cope with this whole idea of direction versus recommendation in helping your your players overcome their difficulties?
Sandy Brondello 29:58
Look, I think in in us I I think what we do is like, we shine a lot of visual, you know, we try to sometimes it's harder than we want to do more. But if they can see something in any kind of ask, you need to ask players to what do you see? You know, so this is how we're trying to develop their basketball IQ, so to speak, and then understanding what did they see? Because sometimes what they see what you see is two things that are totally different. So it's just aligning. Okay, so what do you see here, and then letting them speak and then giving them direction for what they've said, and maybe they're on the on the nail, and sometimes they're not, but just buy a product, don't be problem based, you have to be solution based? Well, like, this is what you did. So that, you know, this is what you need to do. You know, otherwise, because you don't want to spoon feed everybody, because otherwise, they don't know how to get through challenges, and they're always going to look to someone higher up to Okay, so what do I do? What am I supposed to do? Now it's like, well, you need to work it out, you know, we'll give you the solutions. And then sometimes it's just hard work. Sometimes you need to go through that way. I like to say, you know, life is like we're going into a store, we're going into it, we're in the middle of it, it's gone crazy. But you know, you can come out of it, you know, it's a matter of time. So it's been, that's where you develop the persistent nature, you know, that raise, you have to be, you know, you got the narrow focus, but you have to sometimes let go. And to actually fulfill the potential that each and every one of us has, regardless of what kind of area of expertise that we're in or wanting to get in the challenges is the end the experiences, the you know, the negative ones that we have, it's really what shapes us as, as human beings and puts us in a position. Some of us may be a great leaders, some of us may be not, they'd rather just be just be a part of a team. And that's okay.[PB19]
Paul Barnett 31:53
I'd like to talk about basketball IQ for a minute if I could, because I read the one of the more unusual things you did to develop your handling skills, as well as some goggles on a squash court with one of your coaches at the time. I'm wondering, are there any other unusual methods that you've used to help a player develop the skill that they may have been comparatively weak?
Sandy Brondello 32:14
Ah, look, I suppose. I mean, that was I mean, he was great. What am I his you know, as my mentor, I could say they still my mentor, I never reached out, he gives a you know, a positive word. Sometimes we all need that, you know, I remember going to the AAAS, and I was a shooter, like I, my dad, I had a grass court, you know, my dad made some put some Woods together and made a backboard, and on a water tank, so you know, I could shoot, I just, you know, couldn't dribble, because there's one dribble and or two doubles, you'd lose the ball and the rocks that run the grass, and on the uneven surface, so he came in and said, I want you to be the point guard, and my first thing like, do not do that I'm not a very good dribble, and he just worked with me for three months, you know, and just, you know, this is the Australian men's coach at the time coaching, you know, coaching me individually at the area, so forever. Remember those memories, because, you know, he wanted me to be great, you know, in, in one of the work on those weaknesses that I had, and believed in me, I think that goes a long way. You know, he's him believing in me, really was what kept me going all these years too. And that's that one person. And I think someone like that resonates with the people in our lives that resonate, which kind of put us on that right path that kept us going to fulfill, you know, our dreams and goals. But look, I think, you know, in basketball IQ, I always say, can you teach basketball IQ, your white husband and I He's a professional coach, as well. Also, we have those discussions all the time. So like, can you it's like, yeah, it's such a hard thing. I think he can teach him some things they that you know, have a feel for it or not, but look at things that we do, obviously, when you start, you know, you probably do note the no dribble rule to understand movement, cutting, basing. It's hard, no one likes doing that drill. But it actually helps understand, you know, what's necessary and you know, the the setup moves and cutting, I think that kind of helps. And we talk about Australians are really good at motion principles. And a lot of them I would say, in Americans are not, because they're so big on just running sets, where it's, you know, it's the start of a set and then let them play with the movement and emotion so I think that was it. That's always a handy thing to use as a coach coming in. But you know, the goggles, you know, I, I'd like to think I can help people be become better shooters, my husband kind of, I was a great shooter, but he kind of helped me a lot too. And just the biomechanics, each part of the body, which helps you to be the best shooter that you could be. So not just saying it's not all about just the hands it's about it's that's from the feet, you know, being loosen your hips, where the balls position, the hands positioned. And, you know, the specifics on that, I think, I mean, that's just breaking it down. That's not putting any fancy gadgets in there. Sometimes we may tell them to put a coin, if they're holding the ball too far on the side, they want to flick it, you know, we make them hold a coin here. So you're trying to think of things that can help us to, to improve a bad habit that they have to get back to, you know, correcting certain, certain issues. But I'm sure there's probably other gadgets out there that people have used. But, you know, I think it's all about this repetition. That's what I say to my son too. It's like, hey, if you want to be a great shooter, like don't go, you got to shoot at game speed, and then get shots at you'll get in the game, but keep working on your weaknesses. It's just like me, I could shoot but you know, dribbling, that wasn't one of my, my strengths. I still don't think it was my biggest strength. But I became, you know, okay enough that I can actually be a point guard, but my favorite position was a shooting guard. And, and that's what I said, it's like, you got to keep working on all the fundamentals. That's the most important thing. I think if you got sound fundamentals, you're going to make a really good player. And then it's just hard work and dedication from
Paul Barnett 35:55
San Diego, I'd like to jump across if I could for a minute, you talked a little bit before about being a female coach and getting women involved in sports and keeping them involved. You know, the sad reality is, if you go back to them, just looking at my stats here, Rio Olympics 2016, only 11% of all the accredited coaches or women, that's it doesn't seem right. So I'd like to ask you, it's a very big question. But what could be done to get more women into coaching?
Sandy Brondello 36:21
I mean, that is a great question. I think that's been spoken about more and more today, because 11% is not a lot. But look, I think in the high level, you know, national teams, I always, you know, I think it's great that I get an opportunity as a woman to lead our Australian team. But you know, I'm hoping that I got it because I was the best person for the job, not because of my gender. And I think at those levels, you have to think who he thinks is going to be the best person. But at the same time, I said, I think we've had we have a lot of former players, you know, have so much experience playing many Olympic Games. And, you know, maybe they went and had, you know, children and but now we're getting into to coaching, I think it's important, making sure that our associations are organized. Organizations, organize teams that run the teams are providing opportunities for coaches, to maybe entry level, coaching opportunities where they can continue alone, providing them with more clinics, I think basketball Australia, and Peter Lanigan does a really good job, you know, of getting more women, these opportunities, but then it comes to the you know, each Association making sure that if someone's good enough to do it, that we're providing them with those opportunities.[PB20] You know, I'd like to see more than 11% definitely send
Paul Barnett 37:43
your mic, just I've taken so much of your time, I just like to ask one final question. If I could, I know that you're still early in your coaching career with a long way to go and many, many goals ahead of you. But if I was to ask you to stop and look backwards, from what you've achieved so far, what is it you think the legacy that you've left behind you to now is?
38:04
Yeah,
Sandy Brondello 38:07
hopefully positive? Yeah, no, look, I would think, and I've said it many, many times, it's, I'd like to think they look back and then I, you know, being a servant leader, being someone that, you know, obviously paved the way for others to dare to dream. You know, I'm, I bet, you know, it's a great honor for me and a great privilege to be able to do what I've been able to do, but it doesn't come without the opportunities given from those above me.[PB21] So, you know, my first head assistant coaching job, I just returned 2004, after Athens Olympics, and I knew I wanted to coach at the highest level of W MBA, and, you know, just reached out to Dan Hughes, and we just started talking, he didn't, he knew me as a player, and he enjoyed watching me as a player and coaching against me, didn't know me as a person. And then he gave me that opportunity. So forever grateful for that. It just gave me the tastes of coaching. And it gave me the ability to continue to grow each and each and every year with giving me more responsibilities. And then just taking, you know, obviously, my husband's a coach, and he's kind of helped me along the journey to, but you know, all the people that have helped me, you know, but I like to say in the end, it's like, I had to be who I am with my personality, you know, obviously, hard work and you talk about intense but intense in the right way. Because when I make it a fun, a fun, enjoyable experience. I mean, that's what I talked about culture being so so important for you know, who I am as a leader, because I think once you have the right culture, that successes will come but you continue to learn from the negative experiences as a group and that you know, starts with me as a leader. It's like, okay, you know, what do we want to achieve? You know, we want to win a gold at the at the Olympic Games. Okay, well, that takes a lot of hard work. That's a, you know, it sacrifices, dedication, but the like, in the end, I want to make sure that they think that you know, they think I was a servant leader and I was there to help each and every one of them to be the best that they could be
Paul Barnett 40:03
Sandy rhondella I can't think of a better place to end this discussion with that wonderful thought and paved the way for others to dare to dream. I'd like to thank you for your time today. And I wish you all the best on the road to that gold medal.
40:17
Thank you, Paul. Great to be here.
Transition 40:19
The great coaches podcast.
Paul Barnett 40:23
Hi, everyone, it's Paul here. And you have been listening to our discussion with Sandy Brunello. The key highlights for me were her experience of family life on a farm, and how they shaped her own approach to building sporting teams. The importance of selflessness in athletes and team sports, and the great story she shared from the 1988 Olympics, where she played very little time to illustrate this. And her views on being a servant leader. And why relationships with athletes and people who support the team is important to enable this. I hope you enjoyed it as much as Jim and I did. In our next episode, we will be speaking to Australian rules football league coach Paul Roos, but they don't want to hold each other accountable and have what we call in a business, we'll just have a real conversation with each other. This is what it's expected of you. Well done, you did it really well. But we don't do it like that. Don't do it again. So they're not prepared to have those really honest conversations and hold each other accountable. And that's that concept of good to great, you know, it's easy to be a mediocre team. And just before we go, coaches are not usually the type of people who seek the spotlight. And so if you can put us in contact with a great coach that you know, has unique story to share, then we would love to hear from you. You can contact us using the details in the show notes.
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