Gail Goestenkors edit
Sat, May 18, 2024 9:05AM • 37:33
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, players, play, mistakes, learned, game, feel, journal, court, wanted, basketball, team, question, empower, talk, years, helped, scouting report, good, mission statement
SPEAKERS
Gail Goestenkors, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:04
Good morning, Gail Gustin cause and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Gail Goestenkors 00:10
Good morning. I'm so happy to be on the air with you. Ah,
Paul Barnett 00:14
thank you for joining us. I have to ask that could could we begin by you just telling us where are you in? And what have you been up to so far today?
Gail Goestenkors 00:24
Well, I am actually in the great state of Michigan, in the United States, that's where my family is from. And after traveling really around the world, and certainly around the United States for most of my career, I decided to come back closer to home to be closer to my family and my parents. And I consult and I'm consulting for the University of Kentucky. And so I can consult from anywhere so it's just been a joy to be closer to my family and still be able to, to help others on their journey.
Paul Barnett 00:58
Well, I know exactly how that feels, girl after coming on to be closer to my family. So well done on that decision. I think your family are probably very happy as well. But Gail, can I start by just names checking some of the great coaches you've had experience with in preparing for today? I can see the Marcia rail, Linden, Van Chancellor, and Donovan. So pretty good group of coaches to have had experience with but having watched these people up close, what is it you think the Great Ones do differently that sets them apart?
Gail Goestenkors 01:33
Well, I think what I really learned is that there are so many different ways to be successful. You know, they don't all do the same thing. Marsha real she was my my college coach. And she she said we're just going to run and play. I mean, we really didn't have set plays, we were just pressing 94 feet, the entire game. That was just the way that that was her personality type. And then Lin done excellent with X's and O's. In her goal. We were going to out execute everybody. I mean, she wanted to control and she was just a mastermind with the game of basketball van Chancellor, he was a let it play kind of guy. So working with him in the Olympics and the World Championships. He just played in practice. I mean, we didn't run a lot of drills, we played cutthroat, we played there was three on three all out no out of bounds play. He wanted always to just bring out their competitive juices, because he had the best players in the world. So and then and Donovan was a little bit of all of it is she she of all of them had played at the very highest level. You know, she had been an Olympian where the others weren't. So I feel like she was a little bit more of a player's coach. She wanted to know, how did they feel? What did they think she wanted them in on the process. So I was so fortunate to learn different styles of play different ways of motivating from each of these coaches and all of them in their own right. were successful at the highest levels.
Paul Barnett 03:14
Not only have you worked with some great coaches, but you've coached against a couple of other goodbyes too. I can see that you've coached against Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt. All of these experiences Gail, but all of it together, what have you learned about creating team identity?
Gail Goestenkors 03:31
Yeah, I think that you have to be who you are. And I think when I think of all those coaches and specifically when I think of Pat and Gino, their players play to the identity of their head coaches, you know, Pat's teams were always going to be they were going to come at you. They were going to be so physical. They were going to usually lead the nation in rebounding. You know, she was just such a strong willed tough individual. Geno's teams were almost always going to try to out execute you their offensive schemes, their offensive system, his attention to detail, second to none. So they were different. But their teams, you can see their teams, their personality come out through their team.
So I guess the biggest thing that I've learned through all this was and I learned that when I first became a head, you have to coach to your identity to your personality. When I had worked for Lynn for six years at Purdue, and then I finally got my first head coaching job at Duke University. I tried to be Linden. You know, she was she was my greatest mentor. And so I was trying to be her for maybe my first two years before I realized, I can't do this. It's not working. She has a distinct style of play. She had a distinct personality, and I didn't have that person. ality. And so I had to learn to become comfortable in my own skin, and figure out what is going to work best for me. Because then when you get into your comfort zone, you're much better coach, you're more authentic. And the players respond to that.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 05:16
You've had some great mentors when you talked about Linda on there, and I've heard you talk about her and other interviews, as well. And I know that you now are quite an active mentor for other young coaches who think a gale are the key ingredients of a good mentor mentee relationship.
Gail Goestenkors 05:34
Yeah, I love mentoring young coaches. Now that's, that's what what I love to do. So I've done this for the last several years. And I specifically love working with coaches where it's their first time in that head coaching seat, because they're going through so many things, and I made so many mistakes along the way. So anytime I can keep them from making some of those mistakes, I feel good. And I think some of the most important things that we've tried to focus on number one is going to be trust. Because you've got to trust one another, you got to trust that the mentor has your best interest at heart, that they're going to have your back and be by your side and that they're going to tell you hard truths. So I think that's the biggest thing has been number one, we have to establish our trust. And then number two is the communication. Because not only do I have to tell them the truth, but they have to be able to hear the truth. And sometimes what you have to hear isn't something you necessarily want to hear. But it's something that if if you know somebody's got your best interest, it's like your best friend telling you something, nobody else will tell you, or your brother, your sister, whatever it is telling them. And in a way, that's the other thing. It's communicating in a way that they can hear what you're trying to say, you know, so it's always important how you get that message across. And sometimes, especially when we're working with some new clients, it takes some time to establish you have to establish that trust. And then for me, I always have to try to find my way, how can this person best receive the information that I need to tell them there's a time there's a place, we have to find that that sacred space where they can hear what they need to hear to be the best coach they can possibly be?[PB2]
Paul Barnett 07:29
Have you had some experiences along the way that have not been good and have helped maybe alter or sharpen your work as a mentor?
Gail Goestenkors 07:42
Many, many overall, my years, yes, I've made. I'm sure I've done some great things I know I have. But I've also I mean, any coach, if they're willing to really look themselves in the mirror is going to know they've made tons of mistakes, lots of mistakes. So I think it's been very helpful with some of the people that I worked with that I tell them, here's, here's what I did wrong. So you may, you might want to try something a little bit different, or I constantly bring up things that were mistakes that I made. And fortunately for me, the time that I was making them, those mistakes, everything wasn't always out on social media yet. So I made the mistakes in the privacy of my own gym. Most times, not always, but most times. So it was just my players and I my staff, as opposed to you know, things weren't on national TV as often as they are now. And everybody can have a cell phone in their hand and posting it. So my goal is to help them not make the same mistakes that I made.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 08:46
Well to that, to that end, go you say this is a quote, develop a mission statement, who you are and what you stand for. And then always go back to that mission statement, because sometimes we get lost along the way. And I was wondering, Gail, if you could tell us about your mission statement when you were a coach or perhaps even one that you helped another coach develop?
Gail Goestenkors 09:09
Yeah, I think and one thing I will say is my mission statement through the years grew and changed, you know, as I as I grew and change. So I think you need to reevaluate to your Is this still what, what I believe is this at the core of, of what my heart speaks to? And so, constantly reevaluating your mission statement and what you stand for. And I'm just going to read you this was the last mission statement. I had to look it up. Because it's been a while, what my last mission statement was it was cultivating environments of sustained excellence on the court, room and community and empowering women to become independent, confident and successful leaders. So that was that was my last mission statement. And as you can see, it had nothing to do with wins or losses. I always felt like if you developed the whole person and you cared about and they knew you cared about the whole person, the wins and losses would take care of themselves.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 10:18
Was there a moment or event that triggered the first mission statement that you wrote for yourself?
Gail Goestenkors 10:27
Yes, as a matter of fact, it was. Because Lynch, I never knew that Lynne had Michigan State that she did, I still don't know if she did or didn't. But it was my first year at Duke. So I went to Duke, like I said, for six years with Lynn, and we had won the big 10 Championship, and we were continually in the NCAA Tournament. Well, when I went to Duke, we were picked to finish last in our conference. And we did finish last in our conference. And I'll never forget being halfway through the season, the conference season, the ACC, and we had lost every single game, and badly not even close. And I remember coming back on the bus and saying to my assistant, like where is the Patsy in the league, where's the team that we know we can be? We need that team, you know, we gotta get a win, we need that team. And my assistant said, we are that team. We are the team that everybody knows that can be there is nobody else, it's us. And so it was like, I'd never, I'd never been on a losing team before. So I didn't know how to deal with that. I'd never experienced that. So I went to the back of the bus. And I just talked to my team. And I said, y'all, we had to forget about the scoreboard, it had become so important to me, I said, we've got to just forget about the scoreboard, I said, if you play harder and smarter than your opponent, then I'm not going to we're not going to be we're going to be winners in my book. So I'm taking the scoreboard, the pressure of the scoreboard off of you, let's just focus on two things we can control and only to play harder and play smarter. And so that was my first real is short and sweet. But it was my first really mission state, we will play harder, and we will play smarter. And then I went back and told my staff and we will recruit more talented buyers. So that we could use but but those were always the building blocks. And I told my team and from then on that was always the those were the building blocks of who we would become just with those two things. Well,
Paul Barnett 12:28
you were appointed as a head coach at the age of 29, which is very, very young, especially in American sense. But when you got to Duke, there was a coach, a couple of couple of courts over coach Cade, perhaps one of the best there has ever been. But at least that's the way other people talk about him. And I'm just wondering, did he help you or influence your approach in any way, especially given your age?
Gail Goestenkors 12:57
Most definitely. And I would say, I think I got the job first of all, because I'll never forget Tom butters. He was the athletic director who hired me, he said, Well, I I couldn't pronounce Coach K's last name. And I certainly can't pronounce your last name. So it must be a good sign. So I think I got the job just because I had a name that he could not pronounce. But Mike and I Mike, we had to share one core. So we didn't have now everybody's got practice courts and all this. We had Cameron Indoor Stadium, which was a mighty fine court to share, but one court for us, men's basketball and volleyball, we all three shared the same core. So I would say first and foremost, again, it goes back communication was essential. Because he liked to have two practices a day and we had to get in and you know, you're working with schedules class schedules.
So I learned the art of communication really from Mike because I think he's one of the greatest communicators of all time. The other thing I learned from him is he has tremendous vision you like before his first day of practice even starts, he's seeing the outcome. He sees big picture. And not only does he see the big picture, but the way he articulates his vision to others, whether it's his team or community, it doesn't matter. The way he articulates his vision is magical. It's it's just so impressive. And because of that, I also think he's one of the greatest motivators of time, because he can get you he would, he'd speak to my recruits sometimes, you know, I'd ask him if he'd just say a few words to my recruits and they, they'd want to come play for him. Because he was so articulate it expressing his love for the university and for basketball and he'd just makes you feel like you're the most special person in the world while he's talking to you. So I learned a great deal from him about being very present. And with the person that you're speaking with, and also the ability to paint a picture for people, so that they can not just see your picture, but feel it[PB5]
How coaching the womens team at Dukegave her access to Coach K, who taught her about the importance of Vision and being present for someone so that they feel like the most important person in the room.
Paul Barnett 15:22
off. Terrific. I met him Gao many, many years ago, I met him in China. I didn't know who he was, I was standing at the back of the room, I just got chatting to him. And I know exactly what you meant he was chatting to me as if I was, you know, the most important person in the room, and yet, I didn't know who he was. Now you do now I do. Yeah, I wanted to ask you in basketball, the coach is actively involved. They're almost like the sixth player in their ability to call plays, and it just involve themselves in the game. Of course, they're quite close to the players. But I wanted to ask you what you've learned about balancing this involvement with the need to sort of step back and empower people that are on the court and also empower the staff that are sitting beside you.
Gail Goestenkors 16:11
Yeah, I think, again, the way I started, I was, I was a control freak. And that happens sometimes when people go from being longtime assistants to head coaches. You're used to the head coach telling you to do things, and then you try to figure everything out. Well, when you become a head coach, when you're in that CEO chair, you have to learn to delegate, because you don't have enough time to do it all. So I would say, one, I started off wanting to control everything. Every call every play of scouting reports, I was helping doing scouting reports, because I just wanted to have my hand and everything. And then slowly but surely, I learned that I need to empower other people. I needed to empower my players. I needed to empower my staff. And and my goal became I want my staff to be really well prepared. [PB6]
Because Lynden prepared me really well. She put me in charge of everything during some point in time at Purdue University, so I needed to start doing that with my staff as well. So I let go of the reins a little bit empowered, my staff, empowered my players in some of the ways I empowered my players, I started asking them questions. What do you think about this play? What do you think would work for us? How do you feel in these situations, I would put them in charge. Sometimes of drills, I'd say, especially to my seniors or leaders that I was trying to develop, I'd say okay, you're in charge of this drill, go ahead and teach it to the underclassmen, I'd have them teach the drills, I'd have them sometimes we'd work on out of bounds plays. If I saw a new out of bounds play. I'd like Hey, y'all, let's let's see if we think this will work. So I wasn't telling them it would work. I'd say what do you guys think, let's see. And then I'd let them name the out of balance play, so that they felt some ownership to what was going on. So I would say early, I tried to control everything.
And then as I grew as a coach, I understood, people played better and they played harder and they worked harder for you when they felt so invested in the program, and that they had a say in what was going on. So I also one thing that I think was very beneficial. All my players loved is I had the players do scouting reports, with with a coach. So every single game that we played, a player would do the personnel of our opponent. So they knew you know, the players would stand up in front of the team and they would help give the scouting report and what it did a it helped them learn the game better. Because we were watching film of an opponent we weren't normally it's human nature when you watch film of yourself, you're watching yourself. But when you watch a team and you're not on the court, you now you can start to see plays and you can start to see tendencies. So it helped our players become better understand the game of basketball better it put them in leadership situations, but it also made them so invested if they said somebody was a three point shooter. And during the game with somebody that player got a three point shot off our players who are now coaching each other or saying I told you she was a three point shooter, you so it helped them really, I think, understand the game and become very vested in what was happening during the game. And it also gave the one on one time that we needed between players and coaches while they were working on their scouting report together. So for a variety of reasons it really helped empower the players.[PB7]
Paul Barnett 19:58
dial another one of your sayings was to Look is cheap action speak. But sometimes as a leader, our actions fall short of what we aspire to. And I'm wondering, is there an example you can share with us when this might have happened to you and how you dealt with it?
Gail Goestenkors 20:13
Oh, gosh, it happened to me so many times.
I fell short on many occasions. But I will say, I always was, as soon as I realized the error of my ways, I would turn around and apologize in front of the team, because I wanted to model the behavior that I wanted them to have as well. So I will say, I was always very quick to turn right back around and say, you know, I messed up here, you know, it might be I know, there's times when I've yelled at a player, and it wasn't called for, you know, I shouldn't have done that I was it, it was the heat of the moment. But there's no excuse I made a mistake. Or if I would, let's say jump to a conclusion. I thought somebody was out drinking last night when you know, the night before a game or something, and they shouldn't have been. But instead of getting all the facts, I jumped to a conclusion that they had done something wrong. So I know that had happened in the past, where I just made an assumption that was incorrect instead of getting all the facts first. So the greatest gift I can see, because we're all going to make mistakes. And that's the way you, you know, you handle it, you handle it the way you want your players to handle it. And that's to just ask for forgiveness, admit you made a mistake. And let's move on.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 21:36
I have another good quote from you, girl, you say, if you ask good questions, if you keep your mouth shut, you'll find out a great deal about what's in someone's heart, mind and soul. There's a lot in that, quote, there's listening, there's asking good questions. And then there's actually going beyond just what's in someone's consciousness, but going much deeper. But the question I wanted to ask was probably the simplest one, which is, what tips do you have on just formulating those questions?
Gail Goestenkors 22:12
Yeah, I think I was a psychology minor. So that's my, my mind is always trying to go a little bit deeper, and develop, really develop those relationships and find out I don't think you can properly motivate someone if you don't know what's in their heart. Because everybody's motivated differently. Everybody has gone through different life experiences. So I think the most important thing is trying to figure out how can I touch this person's heart? How can I get them to open up to me? And that, again, all comes from trust? So how can I get them to press me? So a lot of times, I'll take them, let's get, let's just go shoot around, let me just rebound for you. Because their comfort zone is basketball players, their comfort zone is the gym. And so that is that was always my sanctuary. And it is for many players. So let's just go into your sanctuary, which is the gym, and you just let me just throw the ball and you just shoot. And then we just start talking about, you know, how was your day to day? And then you get you know, it's peeled, like peeling away that onion, you know, layer by layer, how was your day? You know, how are your folks doing? What do you what are you even thinking about? What are your fears? What are your hopes? What are your dreams? You know, and sooner or later, you can't, you can plan out the first couple of questions to get to, but then the conversation usually takes on a life of its own, and most times it goes somewhere I wouldn't even anticipate. But it's always those were always probably my favorite times were my one on one conversations with my players, finding out who they were, and what made them tick and become the person they are and what were their hopes and dreams and how can I help them get there?[PB9]
Paul Barnett 23:59
You also had an interesting ritual you used with journals and first year players, could you tell us about that?
Gail Goestenkors 24:07
Yeah, the journals. And actually I had all of my players you use the journals, but I gave every freshman a journal when they came to school. And I would have various questions in the journal for them. So the very first question was always was more of a statement. It was I am dot dot dot. And then they had to fill out what how they saw that it helped me learn a lot about them just with that one question. I am that that Who do they think they are right now? Do they think they're just a basketball player? Do they think they're a spirit, you know, incarnate in this world? Do they think they're just a daughter or a son or black or white? Like how do they describe themselves? So that was always the very first question. And then the next page would be different questions like, What is my greatest fear? On the court? What is my greatest fear off the court? What is my ambition? Where do I see myself in five years? In 10 years? What is the one thing I want to work on? To be a better person? What is the one thing I want to work on to better on the court? So I took things on the court, which was easier for them. But I was also interspersing things off of the court that were more emotional for them. If there's one thing I could change about myself physically, what would it be? So all of these things, and then as sophomores, juniors and seniors, sometimes I'd ask them the same question again, to see if it had changed. The i am.dot.by, the time they were seniors usually did change. So and then by the time it was in, they kept these journals all year long. And periodically throughout the season, I just asked a different question. And they'd have to write it down. And then when they were seniors, when they graduated, then I gave the journal back to them, and it was full. So I figured 10 or 20 years from now they're gonna look back and really be able to see introspectively what they went through during their college experience.[PB10]
Paul Barnett 26:19
So those journals, they would fill them in gal, and then they would share the story with you one on one all that hands you the journal, how would it work?
Gail Goestenkors 26:28
Yeah, they, they give me back the journal, and then we'd have a bit of a one on one meeting at it, because I wanted to read what they wrote first, and then we'd sit down. And then I could say, tell me, tell me about this. Tell me more about this. Why do you feel this way? So it's just another way to have those one on one kind of deep conversations, to find out what's at their core? And then I'd give them back when I had another question for him. But I kept them kept them safe. So that nobody else because it was an I didn't want other people to see their personal thoughts if they didn't want to share. No,
Paul Barnett 27:03
it's a it's a very intimate ritual. And I'm sure, I'm sure you would have been covered. I mean, they, you know, 18, you're moving at a home, sometimes for the first time. I imagine what they were sharing with you was quite a, it was quite intimate was quite deep. It's a great way to go. Yeah, it's a great, great way of building, building a connection with someone. But I'd like to talk about you if we could for a minute. Because I've got a quote here. And it comes from your time in Texas. You say I expect greatness from us. Nobody can put more pressure on me than I put on my self. It's, and I know that time in your career was was a difficult period. But what I wanted to explore was this holiday of putting pressure on yourself, and what you've learned about handling this pressure as your career has matured.
Gail Goestenkors 27:52
Yeah, I think if there's one thing I could take away, it was the pressure that I constantly put on myself to be successful. And I always felt like I was letting my team down. If we didn't win, I just, I just felt that pressure. And now I see more that that's very egotistical. You know, you think you don't think it is but really, when you think you have that much control, that's ego. So but for the longest time, if we lost, especially at the end of the year, in the NCAA tournament at a Final Four, I would feel like somebody had died, you know, like it was just, and I always felt like it was my fault. And so that that's a hard way to live. So when when I was at Texas, and people were worried about the media wants you to be more successful and go to Final Four, I'm like, I'm not worried about because I know I already do that to myself. And that's just it is a hard, very hard way to live. So it was interesting. I think when I I got I know, I got better as I grew older and more mature. But I also know, when I stopped when I left Texas and stopped, retired from basketball for a while. And I was working for ESPN. I was an analyst for ESPN for four years. I call maybe 30 games a year. So I was at 60 practices. They gave me the practice to come to your prep work and talk to the coaches. So I was about maybe 60 practices a year seeing all of these different coaches dealing with stress. And it was I just wanted to tell them, right, this is not life or death. Because they would be some of them would be so stressed out and they'd be screaming at their players and angry and I was like, Oh my gosh, I just I could feel it. And I was I just felt bad for them and bad for some of the time I wasted probably being exactly the same way. Where I wasn't enjoying myself, I was just putting that much pressure on myself to win not realizing that it is just at the end of the day, it's a game. And there are kids that are playing the game and they're doing their very best even when you don't think they are they are.
Paul Barnett 30:16
When it came to debriefing again, I've heard it, some people call it dumping the game, you know, processing it and moving on so that you can get focused and not let it linger during the week. Did you have any routines that you found worked better than others?
Gail Goestenkors 30:35
Yes, I always watched the game before I went to bed. So when the game was over, whether we were on a bus, a plane, or it was a home game, I had, I could not sleep if I did not watch the game. So immediately, as soon as I could, I was going to watch the game over. And what I found was, the game was never as bad as I thought it was. And it was never as good as I thought it was. So if I thought we played a great game, life is good. When I watched it, it would always temper me, it would balance me into understanding Well, now we made mistakes here, here, here's where we can improve. And vice versa, when I think we're just awful I go, You know what, we actually did some really good things here, we need to build on those things. The other thing I did, so I always broke the tape down. I just I needed to do that for myself to be able to sleep. And then the next morning I had somebody would put it together for me all the clips that I wanted. And I always put it into two categories. So the team always knew we were gonna watch tape the next day of the game. And the tapes were placed for improvement. I always started with that place for improvement, and then place of excellence. So I always made sure they were balanced. Even if the game wasn't balanced. Even if I had to search high and low for the goods, I was always going to have a balance of place for improvement and plays of excellence. And we were going to walk onto that court with the place of excellence always was the last thing they saw because I wanted them going into back into the gym feeling okay, here's what we're going to work on. And here's what we did really well. I wanted them to feel good going back onto that court.[PB11]
Paul Barnett 32:18
could imagine. Imagine you could do go in 2006, you were given the honor of being named the USA Basketball Coach of the Year. Now. I know this might sound like a strange question. But I was wondering, was that was that award easy to accept?
Gail Goestenkors 32:38
No, no individual awards have ever been easy to accept. For me, I just, it's a team sport. That's why I got into basketball. I ran track as well in college, I was pretty good at it. But I did not like the fact that you could win and your team could lose. It just didn't feel right to me. So basketball has always been the team aspect of basketball has always been what I love most about it. So whenever there's an individual award, it just goes against everything I feel and believe. So yeah, it was it was very uncomfortable. For me. I'm also by nature, an introvert. So stuff that pushes me out in front of people is not, it's not the most comfortable for me.
Paul Barnett 33:26
We'll pick up on this introvert thing if I can, because when when you left Texas, you talked about needing to re Energize. Now when you talk to other leaders today about managing their energy, what kind of things do you tell them?
Gail Goestenkors 33:41
Number one is balance. I think you can get so consumed with what you're doing with a sport with especially now with recruiting and you've got to go out and raise money now for the Nio. I mean, but you have got to take time to nourish your soul. And so I didn't do that I was so all consumed with the game of basketball with my team with recruiting. I also was you know, there was a period in there I think of eight years where we went to four Final Fours, but all those eight years in the summer I was recruiting but I was also working USA Basketball. So I didn't take I don't know that I took a day off for maybe eight years just it just didn't happen. So I'm very protective, I guess almost to the coaches that I work with with having them one juror I have them journal, but I also have them always plan ahead. When are you taking these days off because if you don't put it in your calendar at the beginning of the year, you know it during the summer. If you don't put it in your calendar, it's not going to happen. Because there's always going to be a recruit or a player or a tape you got to watch there's always going to be something there And that's going to keep you from really taking care of yourself. And even like last year with a coach I'm working with right now at Kentucky. I asked her because she was getting, I said, What do you do to fill fill yourself up to fill your cup? And she said, Well, I'd love to work out. And I said, we had talked about journaling. Are you journal? Like? She said, No. I said, Well, have you been working out? No, I haven't had time. I said, Alright, let's get your calendar out and put your workout first thing in the morning, or whenever you want to do it, but first thing in the morning was good for. And then right behind it after you shower. Let's write in your journal. So just trying to get her because it can be so all consuming and then you get burned out.[PB12]
Paul Barnett 35:49
Now if I could take you back now and introduce you to that, to that Junior, who was coaching the seventh grade girls at St. Stephen's, what would you say to?
Gail Goestenkors 36:01
I'd say it's gonna be a roller coaster and enjoy the ride. There Thompson downs, no matter what, there's gonna be ups and downs. So just put your hands up sometimes and enjoy the ride.
Paul Barnett 36:18
Well, from enjoying the ride, I would like to finish with just one final question. I know that you're, well, you haven't actually come out and said your head coaching days are over. But you seem to have moved on and moved into another stage of career, your career where you're helping other leaders. But now that you're in this stage, and you've got some time to reflect, go, what is it? You hope is the legacy that you've left behind you as a leader?
Gail Goestenkors 36:44
I would say that I care deeply about my players and really, my staff, everybody that I've worked with that they know that I've cared deeply about them, and that I've helped them grow physically as a basketball player, but more importantly, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, just that I lead with love and with integrity.[PB13]
Paul Barnett 37:15
And love and integrity are a pretty good place for us to finish. So, Gallagher, stinkers, thank you so much for your time today. I've loved researching and learning a little bit about you and hearing your story. So thank you very much.
Gail Goestenkors 37:27
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.