Gareth Baber Edit
Sun, 12/19 12:40AM • 39:31
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, rugby, fiji, players, sports, people, hong kong, moving, relationship, ultimately, individual, terms, game, challenge, play, personality, biggest, team, support, environment
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Gareth Baber
Paul Barnett 00:00
Gareth baby. Good evening, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Gareth Baber 00:04
Thank you very much nice to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:06
It's nice for you to carve out a little bit of time on a Sunday night to chat with us. Maybe I'll start with something simple. Where are you in the world today? And what do you been up to?
Gareth Baber 00:14
I'm in Cardiff, I came up to Cardiff from London to Cardiff is where the family home is. We had a game now coaching in Edinburgh, when we had a game against Saracens in London yesterday, and I jumped out, hopped on the train this morning, to get back and pretty much do a lot of family stuff. And as I get back, we're sort of putting up Christmas trees. And I think it's my turn to make some mulled wine. So yes, sort of nice to be home, we spent a lot of time on the road and traveling away from family. And it's quite nice to be back and do some of those those things that family should do sort of coming in towards Christmas.
Paul Barnett 00:44
But we're going to talk about the places you've traveled to this Hong Kong and this Fiji, and of course now, now you're back. But perhaps let's start at the start, as they always say. And I'd like to actually begin by just asking you about some of the great coaches that you've had firsthand experience with this, Ellen Solomon's, Alex Evans and Diane. And I guess I wanted to ask from this perspective, what is it you think that the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Gareth Baber 01:10
I think I think one of the biggest things and I know that gets talked a lot about in terms of coaching is a vision of what you want it to be whatever that may be, if you're within the business or organization sort of aligning it to what that vision of the business might be, and, and how you want to bring the rugby to life. And you know, all three of those coaches had different to me had different sort of concepts of that. But were very driven getting there and understanding, there was a journey to go on. And to get to where they needed to they had to put some things in place[PB1] . And I think that certainly probably Alec Evans is one that sticks out in my probably because of a period in my life, which I needed somebody to drive me and push me I was so 1920, or as a youngster playing at Cardiff, Alec was there I had a number of senior players ahead of me. And he took a real interest, not just in me personally and my game, but more around my academia where I was sort of traveling in my life. And that connection meant a lot to me at the time, and certainly provided a good grounding for helping me to move on as an individual, but certainly as a rugby player as well. And I think that all those coaches, all three of those coaches had a very clear view of what they wanted to get to and develop them themselves, but also in the game that you're playing. And I think certainly for Alex and for Alan was sort of connection, relationship connection, which then enabled you as an individual to progress and be more self aware, aware of what you had in terms of strengths and weaknesses and really guiding you to that point where you're realizing potential. And I thoroughly enjoyed working under certainly two of them in terms of being a player and then die young latterly, as a coach die was very clear on how he wanted to play the game, what he expected out of the staff and the playing staff particularly and great work ethic with him lead very much in terms of what he devoted to the program. And I think that that sort of stands out as well as you've got to have a work ethic and all of that, as a coach, as a good coach as a great coach to be ahead of everything. Obviously, I'm strategically thinking about what's coming next. So we're in amongst those three, there was different, as I said, concepts from a vision to relationship builders to a work ethic. And then ultimately, as well, a good strategic view of of how that all fits together. And you can move a group of people to a point where they can achieve what is part of that journey[PB2] . Gareth, you
Paul Barnett 03:35
mentioned academia in their in your answer. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, actually, because he studied at Swansea University and Oxford, knowing what you know, now, having traveled the world coaching and about access to some of these wonderful coaches, what do you wish they had have taught you at university that they didn't?
Gareth Baber 03:52
Well, I ended up studying, not anything that was relevant to being a rugby player, or rugby coach, I didn't have a sports science background, I actually studied economics and economic history. And I ended up studying I did a master's degree in transport as well, which I was destined to sort of move into. I think, in both cases within sport were within academia as well. I think that I wish that somebody had given me more of a strategic teachings around how to, as I said, those great coaches have been able to fit the pieces together. And an understanding which to me, it really comes with maturity of personality, a self awareness around what you do provide those programs and those environments you go into. And obviously, the academic side of what I did is very factually based it's very much around creating arguments and being able to have debates around certain topics. But I've found certainly sort of since I left university, I'd still use a lot of the methodology that I use then in in writing reports or building understanding of the solution finding if you like, but I think that within University, I wasn't possibly mature enough in terms of my personality to really understand how to piece that together with the relationships as needed to be built, certainly in a sporting environment and a team sporting environment, that's hugely important to the ways you'd be, it'd be an individual sports person or coaching an individual. And, you know, those are the sort of skills that you learn as you mature, you get more self aware, your personality gets to a point where you are more comfortable to put yourself out there. And I suppose none of that is really relevant to studying at university apart from the university experience, which was very much around having relationships with people, learning new ways of creating influence with others, as you mature, but at the same time, ensuring that you're getting the side of the academia done. And the socialization aspect of university was hugely important to me and continue to be to probably why stayed in it for six years. But at the same time, I was playing rugby. And I think that those that environment particularly moved me on as an individual to the point where I do very much a people person, I like being around people, I like what I can achieve with others. And that's probably one of my drivers is that not just myself, but you know, what can I bring out of others bit? I kids, certainly when it comes to rugby, sporting environments, having that strategic view, that perspective, and a third or fourth person perspective, to be able to see how you fit all that together. And then as I say, probably, I wasn't mature enough at the time I was at university, but I think that's something that I leaned heavily on now.
Paul Barnett 06:50
It was coach Lee Jones, who spoke to you about becoming a coach towards the end of your professional career. When you now look out across the players that you're leading, what traits do you look for in someone who you think could make a successful head coach,
Gareth Baber 07:02
I think you alluded to it earlier is that selflessness, I mean, think that you rapport building, if you're going to get the best out of people, in my opinion, then rapport building, relationship building, being able to create influence with individuals and groups of individuals into a team aspect, the teaming part of it. I think that those are skills that aren't quickly acquired, and socialization aspect of it, when you're involved in rugby circles, or you've had the background I have probably in my university life, I look for people who display and tend to display that in their attitudes, their behaviors, don't always pick it up. But you can certainly see it in players. And sometimes that comes with the selflessness on a rugby field that you can see people lead by deed, and that's particularly powerful, but also in that social aspect of being in a team of putting other people first. But equally, having that self leadership of being mature enough to understand what you need to do to put yourself in a position to be aware of how you can fulfill your potential and sticking to that no showing integrity in in that every day is difficult. [PB3] I
t's tough, being a professional sports person, you don't get days to pluck off, you've probably here every day is a windy day, every day is a chance to develop yourself and continue to develop yourself. And I'm a big believer that individuals who are chasing a better version of themselves are normally the ones that end up getting to a position of fulfilling potential, and then the leadership positions because ultimately, for me, they're the ones that are chasing a personality change and not satisfied with staying and remaining, they're looking for the next movement of themselves. And the rugby or the sporting environment gives them an opportunity to do that. And those people that are chasing that tend to go through a journey of self discovery and a generation of awareness, in conjunction with maturity of personality to a point that they're very comfortable in their own skin. And they recognize what a team would need in certain different contexts. And quite often, that's putting people first [PB4] and the people that I tend to gravitate to when it comes to making decisions about leadership or can see that they would be coaches in the future. People who tend to have others or other players, members of staffs needs at hand first before there's although they're looking after that part of what they need to deliver behind all that as well. And I still see that as a very strong trait in ensuring that you become a good coach.
Paul Barnett 09:49
Gareth, you have talked to me in other interviews about being a student of coaching, and the fact that you took some learning when you were in Hong Kong from the legendary Australian swim coach Bill Swinton, and I'd like to just talk about that Hong Kong experience for a little bit if I could, and was there any particular lessons that you picked up while you were there that you took him to the role in Fiji?
Gareth Baber 10:08
I think one of the biggest lessons for me, I talked about Bill Sweetman. But there were other coaches, we were housed as a sevens program. But the Hong Kong Sports Institute, which is a government funded Institute, sporting Institute, and effectively all sports, you have to win points if you'd like to get into the sport since you once you're in there, then you're provided with resources and facilities to be able to make the leap forward again to the Olympics, or Olympic qualification, that's effectively what the Rugby Sevens programme was doing in Hong Kong. And that gave me the opportunity to have conversations with and be influenced and carry influence with other coaches from other sports. And I think that that was probably one of the biggest learnings that I took out of Hong Kong was gleaning as much as I could off of them, getting them to challenge me with conversations around coaching generally, and I believe probably over the last seven years, I've moved on from being solely a rugby coach to now thinking of myself a little bit more about a culture of people. Now, I've toyed a little bit with the idea of outside of sports coaching about coaching people in maybe not a life coach, but people who are driven to get things in their lives and, and to want to map that out and understand the process you go through. [PB5] Speaking to other coaches, you can pick up the huge amount of knowledge around how you can piece all that together again, and I think that was one of the big learnings I took from Hong Kong was being having an opportunity to have conversations around the notion of coaching and what that meant, not just in my individual, but my team sport that I'm involved in, but across other sports such as athletics, or swimming, such as karate, even sneaker coaches in Hong Kong, but also then I access mental skills coaches as well. And the question of coaching, what is it you do it for? What is your purpose in being a coach, and I certainly move that on again, when I went into Fiji, knowing what the landscape was in Fiji, the expectation around what this team had to go and do. But what I also want to do is challenge myself in my journey, which was to keep developing myself as a coach, and I still do it now. And anything that I could grab hold of to ensure that I keep keep moving. And I probably didn't have as great avenue to having those conversations in Fiji that I had in Hong Kong. But certainly, as a movement, I suppose in my coaching philosophy and my coaching skills. The Hong Kong was particularly powerful for me, not just from a rugby perspective, but certainly, I'd say being open, opening my mind to what other sports have shown to be the avenues for their planning and their mechanisms for producing international athletes, and utilizing some of that in my own coaching. But ultimately, as well, as I sort of alluded to there is testing yourself, and expanding my view of what coaching is, for me, not solely a means to an end with an athlete, but as part of the journey for that athlete or player that you're tasked with coaching, but also ensuring that I keep that going for myself as well, that that is a huge part of the journey is the link in that makes in your own learning.
Paul Barnett 13:36
So you take this learning, you take this Hong Kong experience and you get the job in Fiji. Initially you struggled all the team wasn't going so well. And it wasn't till that victory in the Hong Kong sevens that things seem to really click for you in the team. I imagine you may have experienced some self doubt and maybe not. But what I wanted to ask you was when it comes to dealing with self doubt, with your athletes, is there any particular approach you found to be more useful than others?
Gareth Baber 14:02
Well, I suppose any coach by any coach would be lying if they said there was no self doubt, there was certainly self doubt. But I was also quite objective about it, I felt the pressure and you do understand, certainly from a Fijian perspective, where it's the national sport and which so intrinsically linked with a sense of national pride and national identity in relation to what Fiji can do. As a small nation state in an international competition to be able to compete at the level that they do, I was fully aware of what that looked like when I was in Fiji and certainly circumstances as they were after an Olympics and the changeover player transition period.
The first year was difficult, but I was also objective about that. And I think that one of the biggest things that we probably take from that in terms of the self doubt is again, coming back to probably that I talked about earlier which was perspective, the maturity of personality, the understanding of you Your journey and where you might be in that and what you're developing and learning not solely fixated and obsessed with every single kick and pass and drop of a ball, that you're able to create some perspective and objectivity around that and be able to then relate that to the players with a consistency. So developing a safe and well delivered feedback system, which is based around the objective of whatever you might be in that time was hugely important and a big learning process. Because around you, there's hysteria and you're ultimately paid to be user term authentic. And that was challenged, certainly your authenticity, to not suddenly become something else, I didn't want to think of myself doing something else, I felt the pressure. But that's not about me, then projecting that back onto the players, that's about my processes to understand how I run my brain, to ensure that I give consistency in a coaching environment, so that those relationships that you are fostered and developing, give an opportunity to go through periods, which are not as successful as others and that you, as a coach have seen in that relationship to be consistent. And ultimately, I found, probably, from my own experiences with those coaches that I gravitated to. Because of that, I found that that's quite a successful way of bringing players on and through tough periods. And you do play different roles in different contexts, as the leader of that from when a mentor to a motivator to a teacher to her to a psychologist, and in all that you're sort of seeing what each individual needs, but ultimately remaining consistent yourself with your delivery, your personality, your characteristics, because ultimately, you've got to give that relationship, which is to me the bit that gets that player to the point where he is able to become self aware and produce his potential, then there is a test and the challenge of you and your characters, as a leader.[PB6]
And I like to think I've got better at it. And I do believe that I am certainly more comfortable in my skin now as a coach than I was, say 12 years ago when I sort of first kicked this off. And it's a very different space you find yourself in than when you were a player, I like to think as a player that I was humble, I was competitive, I was driven. I did enjoy being in a team when the camaraderie and the relationships you had, but I probably was not aware just how much my life would go in the direction of taking that on, again, tenfold to the point where you're now understanding how you run relationships, but particularly how you run the relationship in your own head, and how that affects others and how you can stay consistent with it. Give that view for those players and athletes of what that looks like.
Paul Barnett 18:01
So you got through this tough period. With that, using some of the examples in that great answer you just gave. And then the team garden is great ran five, back to back tournament victories in the HSBC world circuit more than any other coach or team in history. And what I'd like to ask you is from this experience, what have you learned about focusing teams, and getting them prepared and moving forward without a sense of entitlement or complacency?
Gareth Baber 18:27
Well, that was one of our biggest challenges, not so much a sense of entitlements in Fiji because there's a sincere lack of a sense of entitlement, they come from very humble backgrounds. And even the players that come into the international squad sort of with me, very much come out of the village, they don't have a model of what professional sport looks like, apart from conversations with guys who have gone on and done that. So this is the first real environment they come into where they have sort of the behaviors and standards around being a professional player. After that first year in trying to get some degree of consistency around performance.
I have a mental skills coach, and I've worked with the mental skills coach actually in Australian and works for a company there. And the challenge was consistency, we sort of worked out that we had talent. But again, going back to the personalities of the individuals that we were working with, there was different varying levels of, if you like, of where that personality sat, and their ability to mature and take on the information. And most of all, create focus in the ability to perform. And that's not you have to win the gold medal every time you play, but how can you have a consistency in performance? How'd you get that into an individual and then collectively move that on? So we did certainly in that first year we introduced a lot of mental skills, and those were generated around focus attention and one of the biggest things that we did We delivered it through me, I had a relationship was talked about with the players already. And I done it in how I always thought I would want to be coached in an environment where I wanted to give them some empowerment. But there was accountability that came with that empowerment, and build relationships with them. But equally, I wanted to take them on a journey towards what I knew they were capable of in terms of delivering above and beyond their potential of what they recognize as their potential. And a lot of that was down to do with mental and focus your skills, and a consistency of a program around them, which delivered daily habits and standards around being a professional player. And that was probably the three things that was well aided by the coaches around me and my manager, and staff around us. And we all knew what that looked like. And it was keeping players to task, keeping them consistent with their training, taking them through the processes of what that professional player would do, to regularly be able to deliver the quality of skill they could, but at the same time ensuring that you kept a massive flavor of what it was to be Phrygian. [PB7]
And particularly in the way that they played the game as well. And that was obviously a challenge and not swamping them with too much cramming their heads with too much new knowledge. But staging that over a period of time, putting that together around the standards and behaviors of what the working day would look like or working week would look like. And then building into their training, methods of challenging them with mental skill exercises, and then having purpose in the training. So they were very clear on where all fitted in to being the players they were being asked to be. And I think that still right up until through the Olympics, we were still doing those exercises, we were still doing focus exercises from breathing exercises that enabled them to get into a space, which was relaxed yet was focused, providing them a visualization techniques, linking things in team meetings or in the environment to their purpose around what they do in relation to motivation and who they represent. And you're hitting them consistently in a measured manner through weeks, months, years, to get yourself to a point where my challenge was to win a gold medal. And, you know, ultimately, that was what that sort of second year showed us was that we could perform at that level consistently. However, we didn't win the series that year, and we didn't win the series, because on the times we didn't win the tournament, we dropped off the other way. So there was still this yo yoing in terms of performance. And that was still to me going through some of those processes, which sort of came together in the third year if you like, which was around when we did five again. And then we won the World Series that year. And I look back now I didn't know it then but you'd like to think that that was sort of seeing some of the process come to fruition.
Paul Barnett 23:08
So Fiji is now one two Olympic gold medals in the history, both in rugby sevens. So I imagine the media scrutiny must be so intense. In fact, you alluded to it before. How did you help the team prepare, and tune this noise out or deal with it in a way that wasn't unproductive?
Gareth Baber 23:26
Yeah, in Fiji, I mean, probably a little bit like Australian cricket, New Zealand 15th rugby, English shocker, it is on front and back pages of newspapers every day, the players are quite used to understanding what that looks like. However, as I said earlier, a lot of these players aren't guys that have come from programs playing Super Rugby, or international rugby elsewhere, they have come out the villages. And there was a huge amount of responsibility on us as a coaching staff to make sure that this didn't swamp them and overall them.
But I think that one of the biggest ways that we normalize the process, if you like is we discussed it, we discussed it with the players quite regularly. I called them attention robbers, the players were quite aware of what they were and we would if we were going to Hong Kong, for example. And we would know that there'll be the razzmatazz around a Hong Kong tournament and there will be lots of people and lots of alcohol around and the things that can just distract you, if you go into other parts of the world is gonna be big Fijian communities, which is fantastic to have. But again, that can lead you away in terms of focus from what you're getting. So I was always conscious and you learn with experience as well as you travel the world with Fijians that there's going to be greater attention on them, but ultimately bring them back all the time to the purpose and the intention of what what you're there to do. And one of those intention purposes is to have fun as well. And I don't want to forget that because I had a huge amount of fun with these crazy Fijians that they do. They love around the world. They love everybody. They Meet, and they just enjoy being around each other the whole time. And they're so bonded in terms of their relationships. But that was a challenge, a challenge that we looked after as a staff, a challenge that we looked after as a group of players in normalizing the process of understanding what the distractions would be and how we manage them. And I think that we did navigate our way through it, I wouldn't say it was perfect. But again, that's what the challenges are of being professional sports coaches and players is to ensure that you do keep ahead of this and when you do fall foul of it that you use it to learn from and move yourself on, and ultimately not repeat errors like that in the future. And I like to think the players learned a huge amount from that. [PB8]
And I'm glad to see now some of them moving on in other areas back in the 50s, rugby for Fiji and drooler, and international rugby, and that then fills you with pride as a coach that you've put them in that or you've helped put them in that position.
Paul Barnett 25:57
Garrett, speaking of getting ahead and staying ahead, I have this great quote from you. And you say, it's always been a bit of a fear of mine not being in front of the curve. You've got to do everything you can to be there. And so I wanted to ask you, how is this drive to innovate, visible in your coaching,
Gareth Baber 26:12
I think probably not to get too heavy about what we do on the field. But I think probably one of the biggest innovations is been relationship building. I know that might sound quite base for what we do. But in the innovation for me is probably been in my coaching has been the the mental skills side of it. And I know that people in sport get scared away by that sometimes you've suddenly turned into this person who thinks he's an amateur psychologist and can suddenly reinvent things for people or give them the silver bullet for success. I don't believe in that tool. What I do understand now is I like going through process with people. I like building relationships I like to be puts into challenging positions with them. And I'm a lot more confident now about. And I like to probably give over that sense of confidence that when stuff is tough, that that's where we're supposed to be. And I think that challenging players, challenging staff who you're leading to think differently, not necessarily to create for the sake of creating, but challenging them to think differently about themselves and about the process they're involved in, and what motivates them and what moves them closer towards their success is what I'd say is probably more evident in my coaching than anything else. [PB9] There's great rugby coaches out there. This is my method. I don't know whether it fits for everybody. But I certainly believe coaching is about that process of getting to know somebody getting to understand what is their motivation? What are their strengths and weaknesses, how they perceive themselves, what is their mindset to the process that they're involved in, then guiding them and helping them and ultimately moving them into a space of almost of self actualization where just dawns on them that they're that good. And they can do it in the most bizarre circumstances, which, in many respects, as we got towards the Olympics, it was a strange existence. We were all living, and never more strange than finding yourself in quarantine time after time and isolation and coming out and fitting your training together and keeping focus and moving a group together in a foreign country, many of which are never been to the country and then going to a tournament where there was no crowds, and you're in the village for five days maximum two days before and just right, this is what you're going to deliver. And that's the bit that I think that in terms of the innovation bit. I know it's probably not what people think of in terms of innovation, but certainly I do believe in that being probably the most innovative part of my coaching now is being comfortable with that and creating an environment around individuals to take confidence from that and go on the journey with me.
Paul Barnett 29:03
It's a great answer. Thank you for sharing and Garrett, if it's not too personal, I'd like to ask you about your father because I've heard you talk about him and say how much he influenced your philosophy as a leader. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Gareth Baber 29:15
Yeah, he was an economics Lecturer in Cardiff University of bright man had studied at London School of Economics and was very much behind everything I did as a rugby player. And was a people person, very gregarious love pub life in Wales, as I do as well. But I also just love being with people and was very much driven and loved sports, and particularly loved team sports. And when I was about 10, he contracted or he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and went into a wheelchair pretty rapidly after about two years. And I was probably at that point in my life where my brother and sister were older. They were doing their last years of high school and going on to university and I effectively became a little bit of a carer for my dad and my mom was working as well but through school I was caring for him. And one of the things that I saw in him was this desire to make good. He sort of good if people were driven people wanted to get on how much he would support them, even though he was battling himself with his own affliction. And he was dean of students at Cardiff University for a number of years. And he took massive pride in seeing individual's Release Potential and go on that journey. And I viewed it, I didn't quite understand it, where it fitted at that time. And sometimes I joked with him about what it was, but particularly obviously, he saw that in me as well.
And he, he didn't drive me, he certainly supported me. And he moved things for me to keep moving forward. But I'd been is a kid I was, I was lucky, I was a good sports, when I was in a good environment, loves soccer, rugby, cricket, any sport I'd play. And I was a third child. And it was all about me. And the all about me bit was I had to be the winner and everything I did. And my father recognized that I was a leader via that, I think he also recognized that potentially at some stage, my personality would mature, it would become less about me. And it would potentially coincide with understanding where he was coming from him and what he wanted others to be. And I think that certainly my experiences with my father for certainly through that sort of age of 1011, through to about 18, my awareness around my support for him, and my giving over him mature and my personality at that stage that I started to care about what others wanted. And it wasn't just about this third child syndrome that needed to be heard and seen in everything he did, and be front and center. I didn't really need to be that anymore. But I didn't need to be part of the process of being around others, and me being successful with others. And certainly, he provided that I can't leave my mother out this, my mother doesn't like rugby. She's only ever watched me twice, but between the two of them as well, their relationship, the strength that they had, as a parent that in getting the three children to what they wanted to do with their lives, even though dad was struggling in a wheelchair and times are hard for my mum, because she was working full time and the likes. But as I say they were both of them and their Christian background as well was always about others and about making sure that others benefited from the experiences that we shared and basically say probably as a father now a model my fatherly role, certainly along what I saw him do. And certainly how I tend to build relationships with the players and staff that I now work with or have worked with[PB10]
Paul Barnett 32:47
Gareth is this theme of calculated risk that seems to run through your career from walking away from a career in transportation is he said to play professional rugby, transitioning into coaching, moving to Hong Kong, then Fiji, now coaching in Scotland, I'm wondering, what do you tell others now, when it comes to taking the road less traveled?
Gareth Baber 33:08
Well, it's not for everybody. That's for certain. And, and I know that it does become a little bit about your attitude to risk. I've been blessed. My wife and I have been very blessed in being afforded the opportunities that we've had. And a lot of them have come from, I think for the pair of us from being in strong families where we were supported. And when we took risks as young people, they were supported by our families. As I said, I have my dad who supported me massively. I'm a mum. And we always knew that if something didn't happen the way we wanted it to there were people there to support us. And that's a very privileged position that I found myself in and my wife and I have always found ourselves in to make those, however seldom have I actually had to go back and ask somebody to support us at that. But I know mentally to have that support in the background has always been almost inherent in the way that we go about things as a family that we don't stress too much about if it does go wrong. We do believe that if it goes wrong, it doesn't work out what will go back and we'll start again and I don't see things as terminal. I don't see things as even going to Fiji. At the time that we did. If it didn't go well in the first six months or a year and I was sacked, then so be it. That's the nature and life of being a rugby coach. And I don't know much else if I'm honest. I was a rugby player for two years cycles for your contracts. You're always playing for your next gig. And soon as a coach, you can be on a shorter timeframe than that. So I think we've just come to sort of live with that. And that sort of lends itself then to taking slightly bigger risks in what you do. We've never thought we've put ourselves or our family in harm's harm's way.
But what I would say is that the opportunities that have opened up for us, because we've been willing to put ourselves out there. And that element of risk, self risk, I think is a huge driver in creating focus. It's the challenge behind the challenge, if you like around, you know how you have to continually make yourself better. And if I was willing to settle, if we were willing to settle as a family, then there's no way that I've got anywhere near coaching, you know, one of the great Sam's teams in the world to an Olympic gold, and that's with us forever that is and the experience that we had and how that's, I've probably talked about it enough this evening, but how that's moved me on and moved us on. And I now look for the next challenge. And I look for the self risk that is in it and we don't tend to shirk from it.[PB11]
I'm, I'm very blessed to have my wife Danielle supporting me in coming back from Fiji, striking up relationship with coaches in Edinburgh, my family are in Cardiff, and then we're on to the next thing. And as if we don't miss a beat. And because we know that we've got a strength of relationship, and we've got to have knowledge of how we're going to go about this. And ultimately, she takes massive pride in what I'm able to achieve and what the teams that I'm involved in are able to achieve. So in some regards, the logistics of what we do is tougher than the concept of risk, because ultimately, it becomes very factual, logistical, if it doesn't work out, so there becomes a lot of expectation and pressure on me to deliver.
Paul Barnett 36:36
Well, I'm conscious 20 minute delivery, we started this interview talking about mulled wine, and I'm conscious that it's Sunday. So I've might just ask one last question, if I could, Gareth. And I'd like to frame it with another quote from you if I could, and you say, since then I have toured the world with rugby, and being Fijian is as close to being Welsh, as I have seen anywhere. It's the closeness of faith, family, community, and the game and the rituals that surrounded all. So I wanted to just finish by asking you based on this, what is it the legacy that you would like to leave as a coach,
Gareth Baber 37:10
I think the legacy I'd like to leave as a coach is probably rugby is a very diverse sport. It's a sport about all shapes and all sizes, I came into the game, loving, I played soccer, love soccer, I wanted to be a soccer player wasn't good enough, I was going to go and play for Liverpool but never happened. But rugby provided me a greater avenue for having relationships, the camaraderie that surround it again, I know that some of the rituals around rugby can get frowned upon. And there is a limit, obviously, and I understand that, but there is something in there, the socialization, the inculturation, that happens in a rugby environment, which I struggled to see in other parts of life. And it's been so rewarding for me as a person. And it's been successful as well. You know, I didn't play for Wales 15 That was my dream as well. But I had a huge journey in terms of being a player, which is now pushed on to being a coach. And I think that I've got closer to the values of rugby of what I came in the values are of be about respect, fairness, of play, about camaraderie about a game for all shapes and all sizes, about the diversity within the game. And in this highly charged, professional sporting world that we live in, there are still some real beautiful moments that you get in the game of rugby, between cultures, from different nations, between players from different nations on the field, see in the respect that is still shown in the game, and I would like my legacy to be coaching that coaching to that whenever I can, with always the eye and the intention of winning everything you do, but never losing sight of what the game is and the legacy of me and what people who've been with me will go yes, that was as good as it got in terms of being in the rugby model. And close to what we all came in the game playing. Yet we always always had the intention of winning everything we did[PB12] . I
Paul Barnett 39:14
think the concept of intention is a wonderful way to finish. Thank you so much for your time today. Gareth. I know it's a Sunday night and there is stuff going on in the kitchen that you need to go and get out of there. So thank you very much and have a great Christmas.
Gareth Baber 39:29
Thank you very much MCU as well.