Gareth Taylor edit
Thu, Jul 13, 2023 10:18AM • 35:33
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
players, coach, people, feel, team, work, high level, real, day, club, gareth, game, fortunate, win, play, bit, self belief, professional footballer, underdog, career
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Gareth Taylor
Paul Barnett 00:00
Gareth Taylor. Hello. Good evening, my time. Good morning, your time and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Gareth Taylor 00:07
Thank you, Paul. Great to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:09
Thanks for making the time. I know you're you're back at work. It's not not not much of a summer holiday for you football coaches. So I do appreciate you carving out a little bit of time for me.
Gareth Taylor 00:20
No problem at all.
Paul Barnett 00:21
Gareth, could I start by just name checking a couple of great coaches that you've worked with, there's Nick Cushing. And of course, there's the guy that works. Just one pitch over from you as we were talking about this Pep Guardiola but you've also coached against Mr. Hayes. So you've seen some pretty good coaches up close? And I'm just wondering, from this experience, what do you think it is that separates the great coaches? What is it they do differently?
Gareth Taylor 00:52
think when you think of those three people you've just mentioned, especially, I would probably look towards more of the conditions. So I think, you know, Nick is someone I worked really close with, he used to line managing, he was in the academy as a coach, and younger than me slightly, so I kind of took him under my wing a little bit, because part of my brief as under 16, coach was also to manage your line manager, or the coaches from six things down to 12. And that youth development phase, spent a lot of time with Nick. And eventually, when he got the opportunity to become head coach of the women's, I mean, you have to remember now that the women's set up was a real kind of base level. And he spoke to me about doing it. I said, Your profile is gonna go up incredibly, you know, highly straightaway, because I can only see it growing and growing, which is has been the case. And yeah, I think you know, going back to the conditions, part of it would be I'm a, I'm a big person on bigger picture, kind of vision, I think if you can trust in the people that you're working with that this is the right coach, the conditions around them are great, you have the right plan, then you need a bit of time. And I'm sure I'm sure putting most coaches in high profile jobs will tell you that you don't get that these days. But I think when you look at all of those guys, you know, Emma especially been there for 10 years at Chelsea had real good success. Nick did six years, obviously in the women's game with city had really good success. And the same for same for Pep. Having not won a trophy in his first season, perhaps gone on to do incredible things in the English game and not just won trophies, but completely changed the game in terms of how US potential not so high in stature coaches really view the game and how we we want to do things ourselves, you know. So I think there's real factors around why why these people you see glimpses, sometimes you'll see a glimpse of a coach, but not for long enough that they don't probably get that time that they probably deserve. So I think it's, you know, those guys have obviously had to gain a lot of trust from their owners getting a lot of trust from their superiors. In that regardless of results. We're moving in the right direction here.
How the Great coaches are able to win trust from the players, oweners and staff.
Paul Barnett 03:16
Eric, you played to you're in your late 30s, you've now had 15 years of the Citi Group. But I'm wondering, was there a person or event that sort of ignited this passion in you to coach to sort of lead people?
Gareth Taylor 03:31
Well, I think when you're when you're a player, former player has been in the game for a long time. And, you know, once I got to the other side of 30, I mean, I was fortunate enough to nerdy go to 40 cars 38, when I was still playing, play a coach at Wrexham, under Dean Saunders. And that's where I really got the bug. And he was great and given me the opportunity not just to be a player, but also to take the reserves that second team. And I was literally able to stand up in front of my my teammates, and give them instruction, try to get them on board. You know, be harsh on them at times where I felt we needed to be better. And it was priceless. That that kind of experience was priceless for me at a relatively young age. Because no one can prepare you for that. And what you tried to use as well as high levels of empathy, rather than going after players. I think it was guys this and I've been now setting it I'm still I'm still there in certain respects, although my playing days are pretty much behind me. [PB1]
How his early experiences as a coach taught him about the importance of empathy.
So I think there's so many people, so many coaches, good and bad, that have really made an impression on me. And I think when you come to the end of your playing career, you know, you get different brackets of sports people who either have made so much money that they have you can go play golf every day, which will be nice and then there's others that have kind of made a decent amount of money where they are able to probably take Couple of years after the game and then start to come back into it. And then there was people like myself who did okay at the game, but also just needed that space. And then one that space in my life where I didn't have anything to get out of bed for every morning. I think that's really important for me. And I suppose coaching was the nearest fix, I could get to be in a football, completely different kinds of feelings and responsibilities. And I was really fortunate that I came straight out a plane literally one week and into coaching the next, I was really fortunate in that space, because I think it's really tough for elite sports people to come out of one thing and retire and have serving a purpose to get out of bed in the morning. I think that's really important.
Paul Barnett 05:48
I'm intrigued to hear a little bit more about the joining process at Citi Group, it is Manchester City, it's one of the world's great sporting organizations, I've visited there myself, and I've experienced it firsthand. And when you joined, and when other new people join other rituals or processes that that happened to welcome people into the group. Well, I think when I
Gareth Taylor 06:12
first came back to The Club, as a coach, in 2011, it was a different place, it wasn't the fantastic facility that you see, now we we came out of a place that lane, which is right next to main road, our old football stadium in the stadium that I played, and when I played for city, and, you know, that was a great environment to come into, you know, it was nowhere near that machine that it is now it was a lot smaller environment. You know, there were probably, if you were fortunate, there were probably coaches who were crossing over two or three age groups, whereas now every age group has a head coach and assistant coach. So you can just imagine how big and and the support that's there now for for the players. And staff is in a different world. But that environment I went into was fantastic. You know, because you had real majority of the of that period where x players X players at various ages who were fantastic to have discussion with fantastic to go out and watch and observe and and see how they coached in the training session and what their brief was and what they were looking for. Before the training session post training recession did it go the right way they wanted it to so that was priceless, really been involved in that environment at the time. And then obviously, I was involved in the move across to CFA, where again, it was still, you know, the facilities there are fantastic for players for, for staff. And again, just seeing how the club has grown in purchasing clubs all around the world. And seeing people's journeys, really, you know, players who've moved to various clubs within the group and also stuff moves to various clubs within the group.
Paul Barnett 07:53
That seems to be a deep level of loyalty, actually, in in the club, which I think is unusual in professional sports, and actually potentially with any kind of professional organization. Is that, is that a fair comment? Yeah, I would
Gareth Taylor 08:09
say so. I mean, they really do know, like how to look after people. I mean, not just someone like myself, who was a former player at the club. So you know, you always have a strong affiliation. But I played for a number of clubs. And I feel very fortunate to have been able to spend 15 years of my life at this club, and to see the club now and the way that operates and the way that it not just wants to move forward and be the very best, which is doing really well at the moment. But it also has a nod to the past. And I think they really look after former players they really look after former employees, I think, you know, just to give you an idea when when we went to the Champions League recently in Istanbul, it was, it was incredible the amount of staff and planes that were provided for staff to be there and have that moment, which you can imagine, you know, flying to Turkey into Istanbul, trying to create all of the hotels, the actual operation. I'm planning to do that, for all of the support staff was incredible. I've never seen anything like it and actually was really proud when I turned up at the airport that morning, before we departed and I was like, Wow, this club is incredible in working in this way. They really are generous when
How Manchester City as a club is able to find the right balance between honmouring the past and looking forward to define a new future.
Paul Barnett 09:29
you were appointed into your role as head coach of the women's team. You said, The ingredients for success, a belief, hard work, and a strong team ethic. I want to come back to belief. But I'd like to start strong team ethic and I'd like to ask you what in your mind through your approach to coaching what are the building blocks of a strong team ethic?
Gareth Taylor 09:56
Well, I think it's Trust. Trust isn't had one, you know, and you're working within a team where, particularly in the women's game, what I've noticed apart from our first season, which was the probably just, we're right in lockdown where it felt that was the only proper preseason I've had in three seasons, the rest of the rest of the time has been players coming back off the back of euros or Olympics World Cups, which we're coming into now. So your time is really, really tight in preparation. And, you know, the importance of trying to get your recruitment, right, so that you're relatively working with the same group of players is something that's been a challenge for us as well. So I would certainly say that the building blocks are high levels of trust in what you do, [PB2]
How the building blocks of a strong team ethic start with Trust.
I think, you know, respect is huge humility, we receive, we really at the club, one of the biggest things that I would like to leave would be our identity. And the way that we do things, and the way that we play, I think, is what people talk about quite a lot. When you when you look at City and regardless of the team that you're discussing, whether it'll be an academy team, whether it be the men's first team, whether it be the women's will be our identity in a way that we play, and you know, it, it needs a high level of risk, a high level of like real technical excellence, tactical understanding, you know, all the physical attributes that go with it. And I would also say the, the mentality side is huge as well, because you know, you're not always going to get it right. And what are you going to be like, on a bad day? What are you going to be like, when things don't go well for you. And, you know, we'll probably touch on it a little bit more further down the conversation around winning and losing, I call it winning and learning.
I think it's really important that the trust part, and getting players to buy into what you're trying to do, is the biggest challenge for a coach, it really is. And I think I've not always got that, right, if I'm honest, I think particularly when I think about when I first started as a coach, I was very much probably a version of those coaches that high that I had, where it was very much arm's length, you couldn't really, you know, very rare that a coach or a manager of the team would ask you about anything personal about yourself, as a family, you know, how were the kids out of the babies, you know, that type of stuff, it was very, very rare, it was always kind of like this respect of head coach or manager and player, and it was very much keeping them at arm's length, make sure that you don't overstep the mark, you don't overstep the mark, and they know who's boss. Whereas I think it's a different world these days, I think it really is in terms of getting to know people, trust in people. Making them feel that they've got your back, I think is a massive one. And so my, my initial probably type of coaching from when I first started and first probably took that on the 16 roll with the young players as well, don't forget, these are really young players, impressionable players, who are looking up to you to be the key holder, I think I've really changed in that respect of getting to know people a lot more, trying to find out what makes them tick. I mean, we have so much resource there to be able to dip into that, and I think is one of the biggest things that you can use. Because we're here to help. Ultimately, that's what we're here to do. We're like teachers, and we're here to help. And we're here to get the very best out of players. And that's not the easiest thing to do. You know, you never know what's going on behind the scenes. And our job at times, respectfully, is to try and find out that to get a bit of a better understanding. So allow us to move forward and see the very best from the player.[PB3]
Getting people to buy in to what you are doing is the biggest challenge as a coach.
Paul Barnett 13:42
How do you find that line? How do you set it? You have to do it respectfully? How do you know when you're not doing it respectfully? How do you calibrate to ensure you're engaging in a way that's I guess authentic? And he's going to make an impact? Well, I think, I think
Gareth Taylor 14:01
that's due to the to the interaction you have with a player. I think all players and all people are different, you know, I think it's probably some of coach's failings and certainly mine would have been that you tend to almost like bracket players you put them into like a pool. Well, these are these probably learned in this way these probably learn in that way. These are whatever you know, label you wanted to put on him. And listen, don't get me wrong. There are some real crossovers with people and with with certainly professional footballers, where you see real trends highlighted in their personality, but you just really have to understand that everyone is is different. One thing I will say is and where that crossover really seems to align is they all need to know at times what you think of them and they want to hear good stuff, you know, and I think go Back to that autocratic, probably type of head coach or manager that I had when I was a player, it's very difficult to be like that these days, and I don't think it really gets anything other than maybe short term spikes,
I think, you know, in the long run what you want to try and do it as empower a player and, and then to be safe in the knowledge that they can be their very best version of themselves. And I think that's what we try to read the club. And we were really clear on how we want to play and how we want to do things in possession out of possession. But there's a real freedom within the structure, there is a structure, there's no doubt about that, you know, because we, we feel that the identity and the way we want to do things is really important, and really important for us to also win. It's not just to play beautiful football, that doesn't produce winning results. But there's a real freedom within the structure of, for players to be the very best for themselves. And I always feel the more that you can empower players, which is really, really difficult to do. But the more you can empower the players. That's when the magic happens.[PB4]
How he is truing to empower his players so that they are able to become the very best version of themselves.
Paul Barnett 16:08
Earlier, you used the term high level risk. And it's an interesting one. So why what's the connection between a high level risk taking in a strong team work ethic, strong team ethic, rather,
Gareth Taylor 16:22
high level risk probably lends itself more to the way we play. So for instance, you know, we were very clear with the players on how we played from from the back to the front, certainly in possession, I think I would say also high level risk comes down to the way we we act when we don't have the ball as well, because we really want to press from the front. And sometimes you can get picked off. So it is a risk within that that all of a sudden, now you've got the opposition team coming out your goal. But going back to the imposition stuff, which is which is where you do really see a clear identity. And the way that we play is if we're trying to find this better player, because methodology is really high in in numerical supremacy. So creating overloads, how do we create overloads. And we have specialists in the team who are able to be opponents in one v1, we need that. And there's no doubt that that's really important within the game. But the numerical supremacy is very hard to defend against for the opposition. So it's how do we find the spare player. Sometimes when the opposition really show an animation of player for player, then straight away the goalkeeper is the spare player? How do we commit or provoke the opposition now to jump onto the goalkeeper. So that now the person that they've jumped from is the spare player. And this is high, you know this is high level risk. It really demands that you are technically astute your tactical understanding is really there, because we've identified who the spare player is. And then how you find them is how you find them. All we tried to do is give you the options on the training pitch, you might find them this way, or this way, by using a player that's already marked and under pressure. So then it becomes down to the small detail of the past. And all of these things are really important. So when we talk about risk, these are the things we talk about, which happens more on pitch, and we train it and we review it. And we see things that we've done really well see see things that we've done, could potentially do better. But certainly, the players having a real high level of understanding of what we're trying to achieve, I think is the key.
The importance of risk taking in the curtltre he is is tryng to create and how he goes about empowering people to do this.
Paul Barnett 18:38
Could I talk to you now about one of the other three elements you discussed when you're appointed, and that's self belief. And I'm keen to sort of talk about you had a long history as a professional transitioned into coaching very quickly. So you've seen both sides of the pitch. You've seen it from from the box and on the pitch and I'm just intrigued. Gareth, what have you learnt about working with an athlete's self belief, now that you've spent 15 years in management?
Gareth Taylor 19:10
Again, I feel really fortunate that I'm living in this period as a coach, where we're really interested in how we give self belief to our athletes. And you know, that was something that when we look back to the past, or certainly when I look back to my playing career, I feel that I showed at times, that even when I was in a place where you know, things weren't going well, I wasn't scoring goals, I wasn't performing well, that I had real strong levels of results to fight back. You know, sometimes I would probably go so low that you never thought I was coming back. But I always showed real good resilience and character to fight back. So I knew that was within me. But I also feel and I think most people do this when they look back on their careers. There is sometimes a little bit of regret over, not backing myself a little bit more, not using the small resource that was available, I think, you know, certainly by talking about your fears, is is huge to be able to do that just to basically offload and get a different aspect from someone else who's away from it. Because I think then you actually realize, there's not too much to be concerned about, you know, we play the game, because we love the game, I always wanted to be a professional footballer, because I had a ball in my hand from the minute I could walk. And, you know, my heroes were, were on the world stage. And I never thought I would make it as a professional footballer. But when I got there, I felt that I could have got more out of myself. And now we've certainly since I've transitioned over and a lot of that was probably down to the mentality side. Because I think that the talent was there, I think I could have squeezed more out of what I did. And it wasn't a case of not working hard, I think it was more a case of believing in myself a little bit more. Now I've transitioned over into a coach and get into more of a middle aged place, I've kind of looked at it and thought, Well, I'm not going to do that now as a coach. And that's not to say, I'm going to stand up and preach to everyone that I'm there. I'm not, I'm a very humble person. But deep down is a real steely resolve with myself that I'm not going to doubt myself. Like I maybe did at times when I was a player. And it's normal to do that. I'm not saying that, that never comes into my psyche at all, I think it's it's just how you deal with it, how you draw perspective, how you actually start to pick out the positives that you can see in yourself, rather than always looking at the negative. [PB5]
How he learnt to find the positives in himself rather than the negatives, and how this has become a key tool he now uses to help build self belief in others.
And I think we've, we always do that with players, or even people, because I use the term players a lot. But at the end of the day, these these guys are people, we're dealing with staff from, you know, an fine number of staff every single day, dealing with a high number of players, people every single day. And most of the time, they want to know what they're doing well, not what they're not doing. Well, you know, we're very good. As entirety of doing that, especially in this era that we live in, I would hate to have played as a player with all of his social media that goes on now. Because it's it's just too easy to get lost in that. So I think he's taken a step back. And certainly, as a coach, actually making sure that my people know that, firstly, they're very good at what they do. And they might not always show that all of the time, but it's there. And it's just telling them perspective a bit more to say, right? You can do this, I know you can. You've done it before. And this is where we see you at your best. So I think that's really key. And it's been a big learning for myself. [PB6]
And people say to me, Oh, you'd be a bit, you'd been a bit tough on yourself. Because you know, you had a good career. I said, Yeah, I had a good career. But you know, there were times where the doubt came in. And I could have definitely use some techniques that have helped me a little bit more within that. What I tend to do now is just to make sure that when I'm whenever I'm having those moments, and make sure I've got the right people around me, and not people who are just going to tell me what I want to hear. But people who are there and are supporting and certainly aware of the situation. And you know, when you do that, it's great. It's such a such a good feeling. When you come out of it the other side, we actually go well come on, this isn't the worst situation in the world. And that happens with the results based business that we live in, you know, you can't get too carried away with winning, and you certainly can't get too carried away when you lose, you know, a real opportunity to learn when you lose. And that's hard to do every single occasion. But the more you can do it, I think it's it's a great place to be in and listening to a lot of the guys that I've heard speak on here. And you know, I read a lot of self help books is, you know, the winning or the losing is not the be all and end all. It's about how you do things. And that's how you want to be remembered is like, Well, this guy really helped me. And, you know, I love the football that we play, those types of things, I think are way more important than trophies. I was fortunate enough to win trophies in each of my first two seasons. And all that does really, as I always say is quell the noise. But really what you want to do is, is really have an effect on a person and when you hear a player that makes it onto the top level stage, and Namejet you so to speak, because there's so many people that make an impression on that person with all of the staff and resource that that is there in the game. That's a magical feeling when you hear that and that's what makes it all worthwhile. [PB7] Bit of a long winded
Paul Barnett 24:50
No, it's a fantastic answer. I normally finished these interviews with asking you about legacy but I think you've just answered it then but I'm not going to let you off the hook. We are going to come back to it later on. I Gareth, it's fascinating listening to you. There's there's empathy, there's trust, there's humility, respect. I'm wondering if it's not if it's, if it's even possible, how do you pull these strands together to define the philosophy that that shapes your leadership style.
Gareth Taylor 25:20
I think I was fortunate that when I came to the club, or certainly moved into this role, I should say that out of the academy into the women's game was that there was some key people with some real good building blocks around me to allow us to really gauge whether we were moving forward or not, or I should say, probably gauging whether we were successful or not. So you know, there's different types of models that you can use in the modern game. And I suppose for someone who's come from a plain background, where there was very little video evidence, you know, it's going back to the old JVC tapes, there, you know, the data and everything else now, which is in the game is amazing. And I think what that does is it allows you to, to see where you're strong, and perhaps see where you maybe need to improve. So you know, whether that's what it takes to win model, which I think is, you know, something that I probably would have turned my nose up at 10 years ago. Whereas it's something that we use now, which is really helpful, I think it allows us to see what we've done really well to see where we potentially need to improve. And again, not very much processed, driven, I think, when you are any type of sportsman, I tend to speak to a lot of X players or exports, people who are very obsessive in the way they are around the house. I mean, I think what football is done for me is created almost like this OCD, you know, a very kind of set within my day and what it looks like, you know, whether that's exercise, whether that is, you know, planning the training sessions, you know, we really do plan there and review in the way we work. And I think what that does is it really, if you were just planning all of the time, if you were just doing I think it's a problem,
I think the review processes, amazing, certainly is, you know, where we've been successful, and again, and sometimes the problem when you are successful in the game, certainly within a result, you can paper over the cracks. And you have to be really careful with that. The learning or the losing, as some people might call it is, is something that's never nice, never nice. But I think what it does allow you to do in those moments is you really break down the parts of the game where this is probably where we weren't successful. And this is probably where we lost the game. And I think that plan do review process is amazing for us. And we have a high, high level of data that's fed back to us during the week, we very much use the MDT process and multidisciplinary team process where we share a lot. So the communication levels that are place are really really good. I think, you know, most organizations will say that the first thing that probably is a complaint is communication. I'm not saying that ours is the best, but it's really high up there. I'd like to share what I'm thinking, I like to share information. There's some information that you can't share. But I think what we do with that MDT processes, it just really allows us to see what we've done well, we get a lot of data that comes back from the game. [PB8]
And what we do is we've really set ourselves high challenges, because we know how hard it is to win this league 22 games in a season 12 teams, my first season, we only lost one game to Chelsea, and we lost the lead by two points. So you know, it just goes to show that the margins are so tight. And I think what those systems allow us to do is to really see where we are. And sometimes it makes you feel at times as well, when you don't feel you're in a good moment, you actually look at the data. And it suggests that you know what, apart from these two areas, we're doing really well. And that's also really good reference to us for the players as well to be able to show them without overloading them too much with data to show them and say guys, listen, we're close here are really close. And we can improve in these areas. Sometimes, when you're on the gerbil wheel as I call it, you really don't get a chance to review. And that can be quite dangerous. You really need time or two you need to be able to create create time in such a busy calendar to be able to block out a time to go right okay, this training session we did today. Let's have a look at it on on the video again. Are we happy with it? And we might be happy with it. But where could it be better? To the players were the players challenge were the players really pushed to a physical level that we needed them to hit on that particular day. I think that review process is so so important and the more people you can engage within that. I think that scrape
The importance of their review process, which they complete using a multi disciplinary team, in order to drive improved performance on the pitch.
Paul Barnett 30:01
yours. Could I ask you about obsession because one of the things I've noticed through these interviews is if I compare if I compare the the coaches I've spoken to with my life in the corporate world, one of the things that differentiates the two leadership approaches, I think his obsession, and I say this with all respect, but I think there's this higher level of obsession with Sporting coaches, and I think it doesn't necessarily exist to the same level in the corporate world. And I think this obsession can potentially be quite debilitating, if it's left unchecked. How do you go about dealing with it? How do you manage that?
Gareth Taylor 30:44
I think it's the hardest thing probably to manage. And you're right. You know, you hear coaches talking about how obsessed they are. You're hearing that, you know, most football coaches, probably every 32 minutes, I think, a survey show that they're thinking about something to do with their role, or football. And I looked at that and thought, well, I'll be happy with 32 minutes, I think mine is less, I am obsessed with the game, I really am. And when I say obsessed with the game, I'll probably change that and say, I'm obsessed with helping, I think I've probably come to a stage in my life where, you know, I feel that I understand what my purpose is on the on this planet. And that's to help people. And that can come in various forms. You know, there's no point, I'm trying to help the players. But I'm not trying to help the staff that we work with. You need to be able to try and help anyone you come across. And it's certainly the people that you see that really engage, that show that same passion that you have, I think that is that's where the magic happens. [PB9]
How he defines his purpose on this planet as helping people; and how understanding this has helped him focus his energies and life.
I feel like I'm helping but also going back to my playing career, I think as provent also OCD and a lot of things because it was just repetition. It was such repetition. It was about respect, it was about discipline. I mean, certainly going back to my YTS days, or apprenticeship days, whatever you want to call it is completely different. Now for the young players, you know, they don't have to do any jobs. They don't have to do any kind of chores. They're treated like royalty, almost not sure that that's the right thing, because that education I had from 16 to 18 was incredible, about discipline, respect, hard work. And it was a repetitive nature of throughout my career training, sleeping, recovering, meeting, just went in a cycle like that. And again, that probably goes back to that point I made around purpose.
Paul Barnett 32:40
What I find fascinating about your career, Gareth, is you played for many teams, a lot of them were small teams, some of them were big teams. I mean, you finished at Wrexham, which of course been in the news lately because of their great, great success. But you're now at this this powerhouse of a club. But what have you learned about the things that underdogs need to do to succeed? Because the great thing about soccer, as we call it, this part of the world, of course, is that tournaments mean that small teams can suddenly find themselves getting to the final or the pointy end of large competitions. So I'm really interested in in your views on underdogs and what they need to do to be successful.
Gareth Taylor 33:23
I think the importance of the underdog probably arises more in cup competitions in one off games, I think that's where you really see, you know, two teams that come together, one team is heavily backed as the favorite one is the clear underdog in the league format is probably a little bit less on lesser, lesser level, many of the games that we go into never win. And that brings, that brings different pressures. But I equally like that as much as also being the underdog. You know, being an underdog is, is a relaxing place to be and I think that's why it happens. You see these results, where, you know, a team that shouldn't probably nowhere near beat the opposition and will probably lose nine times out of 10, if they were to play would just somehow managed to go out and put on a performance whilst also expecting that the opposition team that is the one that's expected to win that's just dropping the levels. And that comes probably a little bit from complacency or fear. As playing with fear is never a place you want to be in. And that's again something that we try to allow our players to go out onto the pitch with there's no fear, you know, there's no blame here. I take all of the hit our take all of the pressure off you. I'm asking you to play in a certain way. This is what I require from you and some days we're going to do it well other names and there's no finger pointing at all.[PB10]
And how underdogs are able to outperform more fancied opponents by playing without fear.
Paul Barnett 34:55
Gareth it's been fantastic to talk to you tonight. No Fear, belief risk taking empathy. I feel like I feel like we're just scratching the surface but I have thoroughly enjoyed listening to you and learning about you for tonight's interview and I wish you all the best for the season ahead. And I've got my fingers crossed that your your players that you've got over here in Australia for the World Cup do really well. But then Australia when
Gareth Taylor 35:24
I think we have a chance. I'm not just saying that to make you feel better.
Paul Barnett 35:28
Thanks, Gareth. I appreciate your time tonight.