James Wade Edit
Sun, 1/2 6:10AM • 27:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, people, winning, players, game, team, sacrifice, playing, james, understand, important, detail, push, big, motivate, friendships, france, dan hughes, leader, talk
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, James Wade
Paul Barnett 00:00
James White. Good evening, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
James Wade 00:04
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm flattered to be here. And I'm excited to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:09
We're very excited to talk a little bit of basketball with you too. But something really simple to get is going, where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far? Today,
James Wade 00:18
I'm south of a little town called Montpellier, France, right in the south. So, in my little village, eating my biscuits and sipping my tea, so a lot of sun right now. And I'm just soaking it up.
Paul Barnett 00:28
It sounds ideally, we're going to talk all things Europe, we're also going to talk about your experience in America as well. So I'm really looking forward to this chat tonight. James, can I just start though, by name tech checking two really big coaches that have formed? I think they've had a large influence on your career. And I think they've probably influenced you as a leader as well. And I'm talking about Dan Hughes, and Shaw rave. And I'd like to ask you, from your experience with them. And I'm sure there's been other great coaches as well. But in particular, those two, what is it you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
James Wade 01:03
I think the the great coaches, they understand people, they understand people, and they are aware of their surroundings, and they know how to get the best out of people, and they know what to give. And so I've picked that those things up from, from the both of them, they're always aware of, of their surroundings, of the people around them, and they're conscious of other people's feelings. And I just think that's very important when it comes to coaches and leadership. [PB1] And there they are two of the best and, and so me, I've always just tried to be a sponge. And that's tough when you coach against them. You admire him so much, but you want to beat them. But you don't want to be so overly gullible that you just in awe of them. So I try to pick a lot from them and take a lot from them and just apply it to who I am as a person. So is this been helpful, it's been really helpful.
Paul Barnett 01:56
So not only exposure to great coaches, but you're American, you've also coached in Russia, you've also coached in America, you live in France, you've played in Spain, the Czech Republic, Belgium, and France. So you've got quite a broad experience when it comes to exposure to great leaders. But what I'd like to ask you, as is this, what does this global experience taught you about human motivation,
James Wade 02:21
it's opened my mind to a lot of things.
When it comes to motivation, you figure out once you get into another country, that is not always one way to do things. It's not always one way to motivate people, and you meet different types of people from different walks of life, different cultures, different backgrounds, and you have to be open minded to each individual person to different cultures, and it will only help your growth as a human being and only help your growth as a as a leader. [PB2]
It's kind of added fuel to my motivation. You go to these places, and you're like, Okay, I can go you sign these contracts, and you get money, but the money goes away, money's here to spend, you save some or whatever, but you take away memories, and those are those you take away memories and friendships. And those are very, very important. But one thing I've tried to like as much as possible, I've, I love studying languages. So that's the one thing I try to take away to kind of help my experience kind of grow into keep those friendships everlasting. So that's, that's what I take away from it. And that's, that's been a motivating part for me, not only do I take the culture away, but I try to take the language away as well.
Paul Barnett 03:35
He's the one or perhaps to memories or friendships from that journey that really influenced your approach to coaching.
James Wade 03:44
When I met my wife, that's the everlasting friendship. She was playing on the highest level here in Europe, she was playing with the national team, she was playing on what Dan was the number one euro league team, and belongs here in France. Now, right now, they don't they don't exist anymore. But they won two Europa League titles while she was there, the three years that she was there, they lost in the final suit. So they were finalists, all three years, and they lost one and they want to, I got a chance to see how their coach prepared them for four games and how ready they were. And they didn't always have the best talent, but they were always the most prepared. And I just thought it was so impressive the way they just came out to play every every game. And so I will see their practices and stuff like that sometimes. But I thought every detail matter when I was playing the coaches that I played for, it was hard with the language barrier and all that. So you had to be really locked in and really focused on the details. And so I guess a lot of it comes from watching the best team at your play and watching the players come together because they had star players and also struggling with the language earlier and that motivated me to want to speak the language. But also I had to be really focused and locked in because of the language barrier on trying to get things right and so Those are two things. I'm a detail oriented coach. And I'm big on getting having my teams prepare. So I guess those two things kind of motivated me a lot. And those are some things that are everlasting thoughts in my mind when it comes to me coaching and my coaching style
Paul Barnett 05:17
chimes in one seven month period, across 2017 and 2018, you are an assistant coach for teams that won three championships in the USA, Russia, then you carry this energy into your first season as head coach with the Chicago Sky team going into the playoffs, unfortunately, then I progress. But you were also named the 2019 WNBA, coach of the year. But it's not until 2021. Everything comes together and you win that championship. So what I wanted to ask you was what did you learn about yourself as a leader in the years leading up to that first championship?
James Wade 05:52
We talked about details, I think,
I guess the thing that I learned about myself was, I had to put myself in a situation where I didn't settle. Sometimes you get into a situation and you don't want to fight every little fight every little detail. He's like, okay, that's not important. That's not important. But you have to identify the things that are important to winning for you, and the things that you've learned that are important to winning for you. And you have to stick to it. No matter how long it takes, you have to stick to it can't have any shortcuts. And it's so easier said than done. Because sometimes you feel like you're regressing and you're going backwards, but you're not, you're just building a pathway to winning. And sometimes it takes longer than other times, [PB3]
I learned that you had to fight for every detail. And you had to be able to communicate why those things are important, what they're going to mean at the end, because it's not important for everybody. But for your brand of basketball, you don't want to have any regrets when it comes down to it. And so that's what I tried to install and instill in the players. And in everything around me. It's a long process, but it's worth it.
Paul Barnett 07:04
When you took over the sky. I had this quote from you. And I was quite intrigued by it. He said, If I can get the team going and playing to their strengths, I think it will be good. It ends up being good because you win the championship. But the question I wanted to ask you was what do you think stops teams and individuals from playing to their strengths?
James Wade 07:23
When teams and players individual players, players have individual interests that come before team interests. And I think when coaches or organizations, they get comfortable or they don't pay attention to they're not mindful of those details that they need to do to win and or just to instill discipline in their team. And they let one little thing pass and then it's another thing and it's another thing and then it can go it can backfire. A lot of things can contribute to not being successful, just like a lot of things can contribute to being successful. But the details and the work ethic are what go in everything and having a team that's ready to sacrifice for winning, because winning doesn't come without sacrifice. And it's it's an important detail that you have to abide by.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 08:09
I mean, you mentioned sacrifice. In all the interviews I've read with you and all the other podcasts I've listened to, you talk about it a lot. It's it's actually, it sounds like it's something that's very, very important to you, can you tell us where it comes from, and why it's so important to you.
James Wade 08:25
It comes from life, it comes with being a family, it comes with working with people,
you're going to always have to sacrifice something, and then order to win in life in order to win and, and, and family in order to win and games, you that's just the biggest part of it. And to understand that it's not about you. That's the first sacrifice, it's always about us, because the easiest thing to do is to say, I want this or I want to be this or this is what will make me happy. But what's gonna make us happy. And the end of it when you play a game. Winning is what trumps all, especially when it comes to happiness. So I've seen winning cure a lot of things, I know that sacrifice is the main ingredient in it. And that's always been a part of everything I do. [PB5]
Sometimes I don't want to get up at seven o'clock in the morning. But when my son's up and he needs me, then I have to sacrifice and do it. Same thing. Washing the dishes. I don't want to wash the dishes tonight. But my wife's been working all day. So I have to sacrifice and do it. I know that may sound like a little small detail or something that's very minute. But that can go a long way. When you sacrificing you show that willingness and it makes everybody happy. It's gonna make me happy to see that they're happy. And the same thing goes with a team. We have players that can maybe average 25 points a game, but it's probably not good for the team. If they do that because they won't help us win. Sometimes we're going to need it. But sometimes we're just going to need to share the ball a lot more than we normally do when it's just a part of winning, winning organization and sacrifice. It's tough when you see losing organizations because you see that they lack a little bit of that sometimes
Paul Barnett 10:00
I've read where you talk about understanding the way you react on the court influences the team. And learning to deal with that is something that comes with leadership. What would be your top advice James to other leaders on improving the way they react because it's really difficult to do
James Wade 10:17
self accountability. Easiest thing for a coach to do is after a game is to go look at the stat sheet or look at video and say, hey, look, we didn't do this, write this, write this, write this, write this write, the first thing I do after a game, whether we win or lose, it's okay, what could I have done better, I look at myself first and foremost. And in the mirror, when we go back to the locker room, before I go talk to the coaches, I say, Okay, I didn't do this, I was bad at this tonight, I can do this better. And then I approached the team say, hey, look, as a group, we can do this better, whether it be our energy, or whether it be attention to detail and in schemes or whatever it may be, whether it be us playing together, I'll hold them to that. But I also hold myself accountable in front of them as well. Because I make a lot of mistakes. I think we get this false sense of the coaches always right all the time. And if you're not always right, I mean, you're not a good coach, and I'm self aware of who I am. I'm self aware of my shortcomings. And I don't mind talking about them. Because I know that an ever evolving person and so I'm trying to get it right. [PB6] But at the end of the day, I know what I want. And and I know what we have to do to win. But sometimes I fall short of that. And I have to self reflect and say, Okay, how can I get the best out of myself, so I can get the best out of them? And I think that's just a big part of it.
Paul Barnett 11:33
Where did you pick that up? James? Um,
James Wade 11:35
I don't know, I don't know, this is probably a part of this is more upbringing, I would say my mother was very self reflective, and she would get mad at us for not living up to a standard. But when she's wrong, she she would say, hey, look, I'm sorry, I could've did this better. She always held herself to a high, she put a lot of pressure on us growing up. But she always held herself to a standard where she tried to set an example for us. And she would admit, where she fell short tried to protect us in that way. And so I do the same, you can crucify me and I'll be okay.
You know, I know I make mistakes. But it's just me understanding that everyone is human, that everybody has insecurities. Everyone is not one single person that doesn't, you can go from the most powerful person in the world, to the most innocent person in the world. We all have securities. And so when I talk to you, and I talk to players and people and, and just whoever, I can tap into that, because I understand you because I have some too, and I can admit them. [PB7]
So I guess that's where it comes from, I guess I've heard
Paul Barnett 12:38
you say the best leaders are the ones that lead from the back, because they can make sure that no one's falling behind.
James Wade 12:44
Yeah, I think it's important, you have different types of leadership where you can just pull people and say, I'm going to carry it on my shoulders. And sometimes they're brash, and they're not as humble as that's okay. Everybody has a different style. And they say, Hey, if you just fall behind, it's on you. And they put pressure on you to want to keep up with them. And I understand that, understand, that's not my demeanor, not my style, I know how to pull, I'm basically a pusher and I just want to make sure everybody is included. Now I've made many of mistakes like that, and where you try to make sure everybody's there and some people are just not ready to be pushed. And you ended up stalling the group because you're trying to make sure everybody's on the same track. And so sometimes you just have to put that person aside and keep pushing everybody else. So that's, I guess I'm learning that as well. I guess I'm learning that as well. But I always try to push, I never try to put myself above anyone, you know, I'm the coach, I just want everybody to feel included, and everyone to know how much they mean to what we're trying to do, and everyone to get the proper credit that they deserve. [PB8]
I think at the end of the day, when it's all said and done. Everything that I've tried to have be involved in will speak for herself. My wife was the same way when she was a player and I follow her lead. She never was a high maintenance or she was always on winning teams. But she she was never the one that was the most celebrated. But we knew her importance. And I liked the way she carried herself. And I feel like I want to carry myself the same way.
Paul Barnett 14:15
Fantastic. And so I'm just listening to you on thinking about the challenge that many people have at the minute which is we're in the middle of this pandemic and people are strapped behind screens, they can't interact with people in in the way they would normally and manifest itself when you're managing alerting people is not pushing too hard because you don't want to put extra pressure on people. Did you find that you were adjusting the way you had to push during the last couple of seasons when I imagine you haven't had the the amount of time you needed with the team.
James Wade 14:45
I learned a lot from 2020 during the pandemic you underestimate so we have 2019 to successful season. Basically from our standpoint of organization where one shot away from going to the semi finals. We will Pick 10th, we ended up finishing fifth and we had some all star players. And so it was a great season. The next year the pandemic hits, and you underestimate mentally, how much it weighs on people, they're isolated away from their families, they all this stuff is going on. And so the mistake I made in 2020, is I approached it like it was 2019. So I pushed them same way, I pushed them the same way. But you have to be mindful, we're in this bubble, every we're seeing the same people every day, for months, every day, you don't get an off day from seeing these people because you're not staying in the house. And so that's tough, it wears on you and everybody that you love outside of your teammates, you have to talk to on the phone, on FaceTime, or this, they just warn us. And so some days, we just didn't have it mentally. And so I'm focused on winning, winning, winning, we have injuries, I'm still pushing them the same way. i Hey, we have to push through it, we're talking about winning and, and we didn't take many breaks as we should have. And I think it was tough on the players. Because you get to a point where where you lose the game, and you feel like you're just not doing like it was. So it was like you win a game, it's the top of the world, you lose the game. And it's, it's just the end of the world and you don't have any outlet. If you lose, like you can't go out to eat with your family, you can't go out, you can't escape it. And I tried to approach it differently, even though we were out of the bubble this year.
But you still want to put that you want to apply the right amount of pressure, but it's delicate. So it's like, okay, when and where and how and how much. So this is the constant battle that you're fighting as a coach because you care about the players and you care about their well being. But you also know that they have to be pushed to a certain point to be their better selves. So you're actually trying to balance that all season to go along with the tactical stuff. And picking roles games or getting the player to post up more or shoot more threes, when they're open all this stuff or just work on their jump shots. And, and so all you're dealing with all this stuff. And so that's where we had to get better as a staff. That's why I had to get better as a coach is, where's their limits mentally, physically, you know where it is, but where's their limits mentally? And how do I motivate them to be on the same page, even when it's not their day, and now was the tough part. [PB9]
But we did our best. And that's what we met a lot about as a coaching staff is, okay, how do we get them Now sometimes we did certain things and we about faced and say, Hey, that didn't work and having a and you know, having the wherewithal to say, Okay, this is not working. I know, this is what normally I would do in certain situations. And this is my identity. But for the sake of the team, I have to change this, like this is not working, work with the last year's team or work with the team the two years before, not with this one. And so you have to be humble enough to say, I'm wrong about this, guys. I'm wrong. We wasted two weeks doing this. But we didn't really waste time, we learned that this wasn't for us. So now when it comes up again, we know that we don't have to go this route. Okay. And so I've always tried to be good about adapting and adjusting. And if you go down the street, and you see that's not the way to turn around, make a U turn and you find the right way. James, I'm
Paul Barnett 18:16
curious about your values like reading online, I can find material on your preferred game plan. It says playing fast moving the ball playing inside out and not even playing inside out means but what I wanted to ask you was, I'm more interested in the values that you bring to your coaching approach. I hear you talk about humility and sacrifice. But are there any other big rocks, these big values that travel with you, no matter where you go in the world
James Wade 18:41
communication, we talked about accountability, but communication is key. And being able to when you have communication and accountability, being able to tell the players exactly what you feel. I think that's that's the main thing, them understanding and telling them about the sacrifice and why I've been big on why telling them why. And so my values are, understand each player's a human, I don't just look at them as a player, I try to make sure that I understand them and that I know them and I want them to know me. And to understand that I appreciate everything they're doing for our organization, and they're doing for their teammates. And I always try to make light of that. And always try to keep them involved by letting them know that they're appreciated. So I guess that's a big value of mine is just letting the players know that they're appreciated as well.[PB10]
Paul Barnett 19:33
I have another terrific quote from you, James, if I can play it before I ask the question to an interesting one. You say I've always had to prove my intelligence always. So how do you do that? You do that through hard work and they say okay, he's a hard worker, but the hard work gets your intelligence in the room. So once you work hard, people start to listen to you. Now I wanted to ask you can working harder be coached or is it something you have to be born with?
James Wade 19:57
It can be coached, but you have to have some have it in you, maybe you need a coach to bring it out of you. But and there's some players that don't know how to. But the players that have spent enormous an enormous amount of time not working hard, maybe won't get there. I think it's something that you have in you that you're, I don't know if you're born with it, but it comes out at a certain point early in life. And it's just, it's just a part of it has a lot to do with passion. Yeah, it has a lot to do with passion. So if you if you have a passion for it, you'll work for it. Because that passion fuels everything.
Paul Barnett 20:31
It was Dan Hughes, who believed in you, when he was the first person who told you that you're going to be a great coach, I think that was the word to use. In the future, when you start spotting assistant coaches who you think you're going to be great coaches, what would be the top things you'll be looking for in those individuals, I
James Wade 20:47
think the main thing will be the work ethic, you find a coach, that's gonna be too good for things he's probably not, or she's probably not going to be, they are probably not going to be the right person, you want to coach to put their hands in the fire and not look up, because they're trying to make sure everybody's watching because the person that's making sure that everybody's watching probably has a limit, because as soon as you notice them, they'll stop working at the same pace.
So you want to a coach that's going to just put their head down and continue working to have the reward be one thing is for people to get better, and for people to get better around them, and not to really get accolades not. And I appreciate coaches like that, and we've had some, so I'm just going to push them, I'm going to push them and put as much pressure on them to be the best coach they can be. And I really appreciate the coaching staff that we have. You know, we had some coaches that did some amazing things in this playoffs and the way that they taught our players. And so I was excited and just excited to keep on going forward with him. And I want to start a coaching tree, as well. So it's probably the biggest thing for me, it's my motivating factor with our first team is always the coaching staff. That's my first team. Because those are my teammates, I want to see them succeed. So when I start a coaching tree and start to make a coach's be as happy as a kid, I think
Paul Barnett 22:11
you're on your way already, James, I've written down the word authenticity here three times, it just seems to be so important to you and your philosophy in life.
James Wade 22:21
I appreciate it. Appreciate. I guess that's a good word.
Paul Barnett 22:25
Let me ask you about your 27 first cousins, because that's the number that I've read that you've talked about. And you said you were all very competitive. And in fact, it was these competitions where you develop your desire to prove people wrong. So if I can take you back, right and introduce you to that 12 year old, who was playing ball with these cousins, and I understand a lot of them were bigger than you
James Wade 22:46
tougher than you are very much, man very much.
Paul Barnett 22:49
Would you say that 12 year old now,
James Wade 22:51
you are not alone. You are not alone. You can be special, and I'll be the one that believe in you. But you aren't alone. So just understand that. [PB11] So everything you're feeling is justified.
Paul Barnett 23:04
You were feeling alone. Yeah, I mean, even we 27 first cousins, not alone
James Wade 23:10
in like, I have people around me, but just alone. And I thought I was more than what I was giving credit to me. And so you feel alone, because you're you're fighting that stigma in the little one or you're fighting that stigma of of not being a specialist, you think you are always humbled, but I always thought that I thought I was special. I just always thought I was special. It was like convincing. So it made me angry that nobody thought I was special. But me. So I was a little mad one because I knew it. And I used to get picked on from my cousins and they love me. But they use they made it hard for me. I felt like I was special and for my aunts and everybody and just like, Look, man, I'm telling ya, I'm going to be something, but nobody believe me. So you got the
Paul Barnett 23:59
ring to prove it now. James, maybe one last question, because it's getting a bit late. And you probably need to top up your tea and get a few more biscuits. It's another crow. And it's actually quite a special quote, I'd like to read it to actually before I ask the question, you say, and this is a quote you gave after you won the championship, you said it's not just for my son. It's for every young black kid that comes up behind me that you prejudge because they had their pants down or their head on backwards. But you never judge a book by its cover. I'm not perfect by no means. But I'm always trying to do the right thing. And it's got nothing to do with my color. It's a powerful quote. And I just wanted to finish by asking you and I know you're only early in your career and you've got this big tree interview legacy that you want to leave as a coach. You see
James Wade 24:47
all these iconic coaches and I don't think a lot of my recognize that look like me or recognize we have this reputation of being you know, very, I guess Emotional and strong. But the intelligence is not something that when you think of these genius coaches, it's not a lot of them that you talk about that look like me. I've prided myself on knowing the game, and memorizing the game and studying languages and kind of stepping out the box from what people that look like me step out of. And so I want to be an example, for the black kid that feels different for the minority kid that feels different than Yeah, wasn't a high level athlete that converted just an intelligent guy that knows the game. And that can think the game a little bit faster than the normal person. I want that reputation and I want to be great. And I think I can be and I'm just saying that humbly, but I just always felt that I had the potential to be and I want other kids that look like me to have a role model to look for and to I tried to make the right move. So I can be a consistent role model just straightforward. And that's, you know, it's it means a lot[PB12] .
It means a lot to have someone means a lot to have someone mean Popovich and Dan Hughes and all these people and they're great. They're great people, but I can't emulate being Popovich. I can't because I'm just nothing like and I don't have the same experiences as he does. People aren't going to see me as that. So I have to create my own lane where is somebody who can identify with pop fish but they can identify with me and say okay, I have a lane and you can say the same thing when it comes to a Shaquille O'Neal and Steph Curry a lot of people don't identify with Shaq that see Steph Curry and that can identify with him and I want to be that avenue for coaches that that come upon me that just to be a model of doesn't have to be ex athlete can be great dad and in a good coach and can be seen as someone highly intellectual, highly intelligent. And so that's that's what I want to be
Paul Barnett 27:00
great dad, great coach, international language.
James Wade 27:03
I don't know how great coach is a great dad but a good coach. I want to be your coach.
Paul Barnett 27:11
Stepping out of the box humility. I think that's a terrific way in. James, thank you so much for your time tonight. I've thoroughly enjoyed it's been a great hour.
James Wade 27:20
Thank you. I appreciate it, Paul. Always good man. I'm flattered.