Joe Gallagher edit
Mon, Sep 11, 2023 7:00PM • 30:55
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
boxing, fighters, feel, year, coach, people, joe, work, fight, manchester, underdog, grew, parents, days, gallagher, gymnasium, fires, life, drive, children
SPEAKERS
Joe Gallagher, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
galley got good morning, your time and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Joe Gallagher 00:07
Good morning. Thanks for having me on. And thanks for getting out of bed early. I'm usually up this time of day anyway, but yeah, busy day ahead. Well, thanks for having me on.
Paul Barnett 00:16
It's a pleasure. I really looking forward to this boxing or combat coaches in my favorite interview, Joe. So I'm very much looking forward to hearing about everything you've got going on. But could I start by just asking your surname is pretty famous in the Manchester area. Have you ever had no Liam in the gym?
Joe Gallagher 00:37
Haven't had no name Jim. My mom, my parents know their parents. And where I'm here now it's a mile and a half away. No Gallagher was singing there the other night 25,000 in within shore. Park is an area where I grew up in Manchester suburb, and burners and fire from there but no, Gallagher. Yeah, he was there to the night singing with our primal scream. So I didn't I'm not saying I didn't go but all I had to do was stand outside the front door here and a cadet as
Paul Barnett 01:12
well, let's get let's get our this award series stuff there. Now that we've got the the Gallagher name out of the way. Joe, you had first hand experience of two legends. There's Jimmy Egan, of course. And of course, Phil Matt, who I know means a lot to you. And I'm sure we'll talk a lot about in this interview. But I'm also sure that you've seen some other great coaches from the other side of the ring. And I'm just wondering, from this experience, what is it you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Joe Gallagher 01:48
So it's when I look around that when I was growing up, I was a filmmaker. It was a big influence on Jimmy Hagen was, but at the time, and Manuel Stewart was huge at the time in that era with Tommy Hearns. And the amount of fighters that he was bringing out of that crunch gymnasium. Obviously we grew up watching Muhammad Ali.
So then you've seen like Angelo, don de it's what sets them apart. Like say more later on them. Freddie Roach, I just think it's more to do with the work ethic. I think the work ethic, attention to detail, and the belief that they have in themselves in their work, which then carries over to the fighters that they have spooled trust and belief in what they're doing the trust in the process, as they say, it seems to be a key word these days trust the process. And I think that's it and I think it's time and timings a big thing, knowing when to say the right things at the right time. I had a journalist over here, Oliver Holt, who came and did a piece for us for the national newspaper. And he sort of like and Mitch like a horse whisperer. It's, you see things that other people don't see. And it's hard to explain. When you sit down and say you see that? No, no, I don't see it. And you're like, and I think maybe maybe we've all got a bit of the horse whisperer.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 03:13
Well, let's wind back a little bit because your boxing career finished, when you were 16, you had to give it up, you had to take a job. And know that your father was the one that really wanted you to take that job. But how did that experience a sort of letting go something you were so passionate about? Go on to shape, the philosophy you have to coaching today?
Joe Gallagher 03:37
First, first of all, it's like 16, obviously, your parents, your parents, and they're looking out for you and that type of a thing. But what taught me as a coach there, Iran is never right, that 1516 year old off, because the kids at that time at 15 and 16, who are absolutely flying sometime fall off the rails that they get a year or two older to discover alcohol discovered girlfriends and they never really fulfill the potential of the kid that's 15 and 16. That the study had to stay that it stayed dedicated, stayed focused, stayed motivated, came through in the end. And Tom Brady's a great example. I think it was picked 100 for the NFL. And I'm an underdog type of guy. And that's that that was an all my parents at the time saying the right thing. But that sort of like, don't be quick to judge him always give people a chance. And yeah, that that was it. Really. Don't be too quick to write people off.
Paul Barnett 04:43
You say you're an underdog type of guy. You've had great experience along the years of taking some of those underdogs and being successful with them. That what have you learned Joe about the things that underdogs need to do to be successful?
Joe Gallagher 05:00
I think I just read a book recently, when I was on holiday. And I think a word that isn't used much, but it's so sums up boxing, and an underdog is grit. I think grim, I said, as an underdog, you have grit, you're going to get everything thrown at you. And you're going to tell everyone that you, you're not got to do this, you're not got to do that. And you've just got to have grit bite down and just go through. And very much like people say, these days, be the elephant in the jungle. You have your hyenas in your jackals, and the yapping and yapping, but you'd be the elephant that just keep growing, and keep going. And I think grit is paramount. If you don't really have that grit and that tenacity, and desire and drive, then that's it. But I think an underdog has to have that.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 05:53
Grit is actually a big part of your story, because there's this turning point in your career, potentially not your life when you stopped working at the airport. And you made the decision to be a full time trainer. And I'm curious if you can still remember those days, Joe, what do you remember learning most about yourself in that time straight after the decision.
Joe Gallagher 06:18
At the time, it was a very hard decision. I was married, had two young children. I think one was 10. One was four. And I was coaching the daytime I was working night shifts, I was living on three hours sleep. And at the time, I think I had two European Champions Matthew Macklin, John Mora. And people like Steven Smith and snooker either coming onto the domestic scene. And by the weekend, I was just physically emotionally shattered. And I just thought to himself, If I'm doing this on this, like asleep, what could I do, being able to have a good night's sleep and be fully into it. So when I had to make the decision, it was a very hard decision. It was a good job, I had private health pensions. And the other half wasn't very supportive. She called it an expensive hobby. And what I remember the very first few weeks or months after it, after training weeks, and a couple of weeks, sometimes on the Friday or the Saturday, the wife would turn around at the time and say a challenge to during this week. Nothing will training the fight dates in October, and we're in the month of August but and that's and then the next week and how much to do in this month. And it was very hard to have that. And at the time, I just want so you've got to believe in what I'm doing. It will come come true. If I don't do it in five years on, knock it on the head and go back to being a one scene average job, go back to being a nine to five, work weekends, Potter in a garden, shed that type of stuff. But I said at the same time, if you don't let me do it, then I'll never forgive you. Because I've always be thinking what if? What if? What if? And anyway, I made the decision. It was tough. And eventually it cost me marriage. But yeah, it's I think they're the sacrifices that you have to have. I have to believe it. It's it's been like on a high wire and taking that walk across it without having a safety net. I never had the safety net of a job normal. And it was tough. It was so financially. But like it's so I believe in desire. And I was determined to make it work.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 08:37
This whole idea of sacrifices, actually and pursuing personal development. It's a theme in your story. And it's a theme I think with the box, it's that you train as well, you. There's multiple times in articles I've read about you where you say you push people out of their comfort zone to move them forward. I wanted to ask, Joe, when it comes to talking with your own friends and family now about self development. I don't know how old your kids are, but when they talk to you about it, or perhaps they don't. I'm really intrigued to understand how you talk to them about their own self development what you challenge them with.
Joe Gallagher 09:18
It's really hard, because boxing. Although I'm consumed and passionate, I try not bring it into the family environment. Like my kids Curtis and sofa. They'll watch it but they're not really bothered. I want them to live their lives. I mean, I never watched Forsman say anything. And that's it. And really, we don't really discuss much.
But as far as my children, I've always said to them, don't tell anyone, anyone can't do anything. Always believe yourself. Things are hard. It's like when you're first taught how to ride a bike for life. you'd fall off and it wasn't comfortable. You get grazed news But eventually you got it very much like swimming a deep, deep, deep end. And all of a sudden, you tread water for a while. That feels good. That's what life's like at times. And you've just got to, it's tough, and it's tough. But if you just keep going, it'll come through, you'll be able to go on, I can tread water, oh, I don't need stabilizers, no more than feelings is, you've got it like a pilot when he's taken takeoff once his opening, take his foot off there. And I've always been a bit a little bit like that my children in the fact that just you can believe it just looked at me, your dad, I mean, it's just, and they know, the environment that I operate in and the fight is and they're not supposed to win fights and the join the elation that I have on my face when I come home. And yeah, we did it. They feel that and that's helped them in their careers. So that that's certainly there. I try not to do much the same thing. Again, I always try to encourage them to be the best and and also to be who the wants to be. Don't be trying to change somebody for something else, if that's who you are that to find your little tribe. And actually, and that's it.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 11:10
Wow, youth development, giving back to the community. Those are big themes in your life, too, Joe, and I know in 2018, you started the academy in Manchester to help 16 to 19 year olds complete their education. I'm wondering five years on how it's going.
Joe Gallagher 11:28
budgets in your home working? Yeah. Yeah, it's a Java it's, I love it. I love it. We've just had the exact exams come through results. They've all passed the maths and English now. Some will go on to university. Some have gone create a job elsewhere. Some of them are still involved with the boxing. Some have gone on to represent England this past season, some are being called up to GB, some will eventually turn professional. Some will go into sports and science, some will go into the nutrition, some are going to journalism. It's boxing, such a huge umbrella that has lost a little bolts on and for me, at 16, as you said earlier, had to go and get a job ethical and work on the roads and without laying down flags and putting in curbs and hell rain, snow or shine these days there education's to 18 and at 16 they have a choice. Among people who are involved in boxing sport, I'd love to have gone to a college that did boxing and also Maths and English and everything else and sort of set out that academy. The academy is part of a pathway to England boxing. And who is doing very well in the northwest. We're here in Manchester where people coming to train from Liverpool, which is like half an hour, 40 minutes in the morning from Leeds from stoke. So they're coming in on a train, then they get the bus to the center. And they're there from nine o'clock till half, three Monday to Thursday, boxing in the morning education in the afternoon. Last year, they went to Tenerife for a camp the year before that had been at Barcelona. And one of them children very much like myself, I come from a counselor, state rough counselor state one of the biggest in Europe. I never seen much past the ends of the street on the local shopping center. And it's only when I went boxing and we went to hotels, and you've seen chandeliers and posh cutlery. And we are guilty of swiping a few or taking them home from our parents posh salt and salad, pepper salad things. And it's the same for these students that they're seeing another life. And when they went to Barcelona did a tour of the new camp, just to inspire them. And if it just flips the switch on one of them to go, Yeah, this is the type of life I want, then it's a success, you've got to show people that it isn't doom and gloom where you are that there is a life where you can get yourself out of this area and get into things and it's just to motivate and inspire and to give them a belief that they're good, and that the paths pass the education and Maths and English. And I'm very proud of all of them. And then that have gone on to become professional fighters and then that have gone on to do mental health, which was very big now. And it's just fantastic to see them that when they join the call to have no confidence. They're very nervous that they're there a year later, talking on my open days to possible students and parents that I've got to join it and the development in the year to see them grow. It's just there's there's nothing better than that. There's no better feeling. It's fantastic. And I'm very proud of it.
Paul Barnett 14:32
Well, you've actually got politicians coming in now to listen and take note of of what you're doing. And I'm wondering what ideas you have for local community leadership to start helping and reaching more young people get towards their, their full potential.
Joe Gallagher 14:50
I think in the generation that I grew up and there was always a youth club, there was always whether it be a football club, a boxing club A karate club a swimming club. Basketball wasn't the thing when I was growing up, although it is very big here. But there was always some type of club where or a youth club that some child could go to, with the friends and be involved. And big feel part of something. There used to be lots more playing fields, there's football, there's rugby, it was cricket. And it just feel a lot of them fields have been knocked down and property built on him, I feel a lot of them club. youth clubs in the community have gone and disappeared. And a lot of children these days are stuck in the rooms and on gaming machines and losing how to communicate how to socialize. And if I was to be anything, it is like to try and bring back them youth clubs. Try and get them out of the rooms and try and be involved. Try and get them involved in some type of sport in any way. Because when, as adults, we grow up or even as youths and teenagers, and there's severe bouts of depression, everything. What does a doctor always say? Get out, get some fresh air, do some exercise, get some sunlight. And if we can do that at a very early age, and pull back a little bit and get that that's what I agree they see more more participation in the community and laying on more stuff for the youth instead of the dawdling around either Slayer or being no on a computer game in the house till four or five o'clock in the morning talking to people all over the world. And it's it's great technology now. But everything in equal measurement, I suppose. But that's what are they really installed really, to shame really want to talk about it how it was to how it is.
Paul Barnett 16:44
I want to move on if we can from youth to you. And I want to ask you a question. But first, I'd like to play back a really interesting quote I heard from you. And you say it's such a hard sport, not just the training side of it. It's the management side of it. There's ups and downs and fallouts can be very emotional. It drives around the band. You do have your lows. I treat my fighters as though they're my kids. You want the best for them, the best paydays and the best opportunities. It can be exhausting. There's times when I felt like do you know what? After this week? That's it. I'm out. But it's still going strong. You don't see so many signs of slowing down anytime soon. But what I wanted to ask you, Joe is how you've learned to manage the obsession that can come with coaching specially when you have such driven athletes around you.
Joe Gallagher 17:40
Obsession, big word obsession. Yeah, I mean, you said that's it, I'm done. It's, it's like the film, I had one foot out and that love pulling me back in. I don't know really, it's it is an emotional sport. It is. You're a phone call away from having a great day or you're a phone call away from having a bad day. And you can be out for a family meal having a good time the phone call and aspiring partners let you down or a fights fell through. And it just kills the mood and the children the family suffer with it. And then at the same time, you'd have an okay day, you'll get a phone call and you jump around the house like you've won the lottery. And then range of emotions is is very hard to keep doing it. I don't know, I've been involved in boxing since age attempt, and 54 now shot a 44 year relationship with boxing at times has been good to me and at times, it's been very good to me and times has been bad summer. But there's a saying you never bite the hand that feature and I just feel I don't know if there's always things that people say you get something you're good at, and you're trying to make money. I've never been that that I've just found something that I feel I'm good at it and enjoy it. And I love it. And my mom always says, As long as you've got your health, you've got health. And I feel while I'm still healthier to an extent and I can still do stuff and still feel I've got I can contribute. And I can still help people fulfill the dreams because that's what I want. I've got athletes now a new team of fighters that I really feel could do when British titles, European titles challenge for world titles, and adjusting to myself. I've got a goal with this new team. Now we'll see how we go for the next five, six years, and then we'll readdress it, I suppose I'm a huge fan of Alex Ferguson. So the amount of football teams he created at Manchester United. Were the captain evolving all the time. And multiple black folks and this will be the last team now that I'll give it a go for four minutes for six years. And I always say new blood motivates Old Blood and with the The energy and the drive and the desire, the focus, the dedication, and the one, they've got to want it out as bad as me. And if they don't want it as bad as me, then then we can't work together. And these fighters do want it as bad as me and that Youngbloodz motivating mobile and that that's that's that's us that's how it is.[PB5]
Paul Barnett 20:21
Well, you're, you're actually very careful with the people you lead into camp I've read where you make them do a month trial before you even agree to take them on. I'm interested what this I know that you've been doing this for quite a while, but I'm interested what it's taught you about the key things to look for when you're selecting someone to work with.
Joe Gallagher 20:44
Yeah, it's, it's mad when I look back and the people have given trials to win a look at Paul Butler, Natasha Jonas, the like, how on earth would you be giving them a trials? I mean, Paul Butler was a former world champion. When he came to me Natasha was an Olympian. But it doesn't matter. It's I tried to keep everyone treated the same, whether you're a world champion, or whether you're a prospect. And I think that's what's made the stable quite successful.
Over the years, I've never allowed anyone to think they're bigger than the club, as Ferguson would say, No one's bigger than Manchester United. No, one's bigger than Gallagher's gym or champs camp. It's, it's about everyone being treated the same. I feel when I've given the mumps trial, it's about getting to know them. It's getting to know the work ethic, the drive the personality. And like I touched on earlier, the desire and the wants, and the focus, and does it match a level of mine, they get, after a month, an idea of the work ethic and the work program and the training schedule of what I expect from them. And also, how we are gelling. After a month, they might think I'm an asshole. And I'm also gonna think they've got an ego only part ways with no one known anything. Or we go, this can work. And it's just that really, we've got to make sure because ahead of us, we've got to have some hard notes. And I've got your back and you've got mine. Okay, they've nailed are close to maths. Let's go and do this. And it is a siege mentality in the gymnasium.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 22:22
Your mentor, Phil Martin was the person that gave you your first opportunity to become a coach. Today, when you look at these boxes that you you're training and the people around them the support staff in the gym? What are you looking for? What traits are you looking for? When you try to evaluate if someone's going to be a good coach or not?
Joe Gallagher 22:44
To be a good coach. You've got to understand that you've got a copy to be a coach. You've got no life. That's all your life will be as a coach 24/7 365 days of the year. How are you man manager? It's down to you. I think my managing fighters time is very crucial. But when you're committing yourself to a fighter for the next 10 years, that's what you've told me, you've took them on. So you've got to commit yourself to them 10 years. And if you take a number of fires on, then your time space, if you have one fire for 10 years, well, they've got to be in a training camp, and then they've got a few weeks off. So you'll have a few weeks off. But then if you have eight fires or 10 fires or at the moment in the gymnasium, 1415 professional fighters, well, they're fighting all times of the year. So there is no stop. You fight inside and out and you're back in the gym Monday morning with whoever's next. So as a coach, I remember answering a caller when he went into it, I said and it please think long and heard about it says because you're not got a bit he's got a young family, you're not gonna be given much time. It's a very hard job. And you've got to be give it all boxing as a fire as a coach, you can't play it. And as a coach, you take that responsibility on that you're gonna do the best for your fires that you can do. And that's what they're paying you to do. They're not paying you to be cool Mr. Popular in social media, and they're not paying you to be everyone's best friend. They're paying you to win titles. Unlike a football manager, you're based in result business. And that's what it is. And for other people. That's why I try and see it's like oh, this takes a while and then it's Oh, I can't make it today. I've got this or can't make it so I've got that and the fight is at the gym and they're hanging around and you're saying to yourself now them sacrifices that have had to make whether that's children's parents evening school plays funerals, weddings, I've always had to put the fighters first in them situations.
Paul Barnett 24:59
With that contact St. Joe, if I could take you back and introduce you to that live 11 year old who was starting out boxing it. I've got this pronunciation right within sure for him.
25:10
Yeah.
Paul Barnett 25:12
What would you tell him?
Joe Gallagher 25:19
Oh well, what would you tell him? Wow. First of all, I wouldn't tell him anything. Because if I would have done I wouldn't be sat here now. So that's one second that if a was to be pushed was to be you should have told you that you weren't going out working. And you were following your dreams at the time because what to be a lawyer do legal lawyer I my dad said to me, you're not gonna work in a plush lunchbox. That's what he called briefcases or posh lunchbox, you're getting out there and doing some proper work. So there was there's two. And the third emotional bear for wants to say anything was to sometimes just keep your opinions to yourself. Less is more what the trouble of that is. And in that situation, what I'd mean is is a way my heart and honestly, I'm an emotional person. And if I feel something's been wronged, I have to say, I cannot stand by and let a wrong be right. I have to say our is and if it gets me in trouble times, I mean, as in times of falling out with promoters and managers and boxes, where else but I want to go to bed at night, and put my head on the pillow and feel like I did the best that I could do today. I was honest with everyone that I did today. And I couldn't sleep is it I didn't back down or didn't swallow my pride or didn't do something that I really wasn't comfortable. You just got to be true to yourself. And I feel that's what I've been.[PB7]
Paul Barnett 27:09
Yeah, I know. You've got other media commitments today and and fighters to see. But maybe just one last question, if I could. I've read what you talk about the fact that before big fights, you'll go to feel Martin's grave. And you'll ask him to look out over you that that night and just keep an eye on things. For someone to have had that impact on you is I think it's quite profound. To have that impact on anybody is quite profound. But I wanted to spin it around and ask you in the future, what is the legacy that you hope you're going to leave with the people who around you now?
Joe Gallagher 27:50
I don't know. Really? I don't know. I think I'll see. I'll go and see Phil this week obviously got a big fight America arena. But it's funny that because we're just getting murals painted on the building, and a picture of Phil's face is on the shutters that was painted yesterday. And it's on a main road that travels in and out of Manchester and diverted from the question and deflect people saying quite good at deflecting things away from me. But I try and make this my legacy.
My legacy is someone else's conversation. It's not for me to talk about. It's how people judge me, my fires results. And accomplishments are in the record books, what we've done is there in the history books. So that's it really I feel the legacy that that I'm more concerned about is how my children, our family, and how I dealt with them really and how they went on in themselves. How was I was a father and a brother and son most older than than anything but there's a legacy in boxing. If the was in the fight is I've had with me in the same way that I think the fight is a paper most of you say I had the back I was a fight is coach. And I went to battle for them every time but rightly or wrongly but I had the backs and I think that'd be really[PB8]
Paul Barnett 29:30
think if I was to to challenge challenge you a little bit on that. I think the work that you're doing with the Academy will will live on for a very long time as well and will potentially create some great community leaders that can that can carry on the work that I know Phil Martin started back in in Manchester in the 80s.
Joe Gallagher 29:47
Yeah, please got it those and Yeah, take that says one day this will be somebody else's dream.
Paul Barnett 29:57
I think finishing with a tag that lyric is Probably the best way for us to go. So, Joe, it's been ripping to chat with you a little bit this week fight week. I appreciate it. I've loved. I've loved reading about you and getting to know your story and just understanding the difference that you're making in Manchester. So all the best for the week ahead.
Joe Gallagher 30:18
Yeah, no problem chairs, thank you for me on and let me know when it's out. Because I'll have to send the links to all my family in Ireland and all over the place. So my dad's over in Ireland, my sisters, and they're always like, so I always try. I've always tried to make your parents proud of of me, and you just let me know when it's out and I'll send the links across. But thanks for having me on. It's been an honor to have been on this podcast with the stellar people that have been on before me. So it's a real honor. Thank you. Thanks, Joe.