John Buchanan Edit
Mon, 7/26 10:27PM • 40:28
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, people, game, team, players, coaching, cricket, vision, playing, successful, win, sport, queensland, australian cricket team, challenging, point, terms, important, person, albatross
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, John Buchanan
Paul Barnett 00:00
JOHN Buchanan, welcome to the podcast.
John Buchanan 00:02
Thanks for a lovely to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:04
JOHN, I just start off with a really easy question. Where are you today? And what have you been up to?
John Buchanan 00:08
Well, as you can see from the background, I'm in South Africa of rewound the clock and sitting in Johannesburg Stadium, having just won the 2003 World Cup. Always good memories. But at the moment now, Sydney and Brisbane weather's beautiful. As I say, in Brisbane, Queensland, yeah, clearly one day even better the next job over time here.
Paul Barnett 00:27
Looking forward to talking to you about that famous match later on. I'd like to ask with a bit more of a broad question if I could, because john, you're an academic, you've been a professor you've taught, you're also a very accomplished sports person in your own right. And you've coached against and with many successful coaches all around the world. So what is it you think that great coaches do differently?
John Buchanan 00:48
I think what you just mentioned, is a pretty essential part to my coaching background. And that is, it's not from strong lying background, it's not a person who played so much cricket that they weren't international plier long standing with the grade record, mine was a very mediocre, and very small time in first class cricket. But it probably enabled me then to do a heck of a lot of other things in my life before coaching or professional coaching really entered into what my career would be. And so I think that's one part that I think, really, really good coaches bring to an environment. And that is that they bring a whole set of different experiences to a sporting brand, because I think, again, a lot of sports people can really get just caught up in in psychobabble of their sport in a dressing room of their sport in the people that know their sport and want to talk about this sport. And that's obviously where they feel comfortable. But I know that your experiences really the I think one of the key roles again of the road coaches is to try to take, take people beyond the horizons, take them out of their comfort zones. And that can be certainly out of their comfort zones in applying sense so that you can extend their skill base and you can consistently challenged them to be better at what you do. And I think it's your responsibility as a coach is to fit them out for hopefully life beyond sport. Because again, one of the key realities of our sport, certainly for athletes, is that there is no degree is going to finish. It's absolutely not a particularly an elite level. And so in, in one respect as a young of becoming an elite sports athlete, and maybe representing their country, they're always in transition. Because dream that career path can finish tomorrow for a range of reasons. It always seems to me so important that a head coach needs to ensure that while players need to deal with and need to be very clear on how they deliver performance in what they're doing right now. They also need to understand that there's a broader world out there of which they're very much a part of in which they could be thrust into other Angeles, but it was for somebody else or through injury or other circumstances. And they need to have some sort of preparation for that. [PB1] So I think certainly from my point of view, good coaching, was was always about the person then from the person that it came to what they currently do very well. And that was playing cricket and so how to help them in both arenas, but obviously challenging extensively in the arena that they're most familiar with, which is playing the game of cricket.
Paul Barnett 03:33
JOHN, I'd like to wind the clock back a bit if I could, because what's fascinating about your record as a coach is that there's been three occasions where you've led teams that have broken long standing records. So all the way back with Oldham in 79. They won the league and cup double for the first time in 40 years, then Queensland won the Sheffield shield and your coaching after 69 years of drawing in 95. And a pen again in 2001. He very famously coached the Australian cricket team where they broke consecutive Test match victory record. Is there any red thread apart from yourself that sets these teams?
John Buchanan 04:08
I don't know that there's only one magic bullet that sets him apart. But I think again, my particular role in those victories results, whatever my bank was, again, always to try to challenge the status quo. If I went to the point where I first started professional coaching, not necessary professional plan, but professional coaching which was for Queensland in 9495. I mean, it made me work out how I coached and I had to understand my philosophy to coaching I need to understand what my cornerstones were I need to understand the values, my principles, but I also needed to understand how I put those into place. And that was a reflection definitely upon my growing up and all my experiences going out through coaches, teachers, teams, university life and in my own experiences Professional cricketer of which England was a part of that, various teams are part of that. And then beyond that, what I had learned academically, being a father, parents to peers to watching other people do what they do both good and bad. So the ultimate experience, I think, was an early forerunner of me as a coach, I was obviously there as a professional player. And of course, the professional is the person who has to win games for the club. And while you'd like to think that you're a good professional, and you're winning at the club, there was no way that one individual could really do that by themselves. So there had to be a way to ensure that the rest of the crew were either in unison or in sync or supporting, or is it you have to do a call, I had two seasons, the first season was one of exploration, I think, from my point of view, just as a player in learning new skills and learning new environments, and playing in different arenas and playing a bit of mechanic cricket as well. So there was a exploration. But in doing that, it taught me a lot about the club and a lot about the way that they operated, and both good and bad. And so when I went back for that second year, which was the other one that kept that will enable me then to bring that to the fore in the dressing rooms. And then Initially, I think a professional again, as I say, is a hired hand, and you come in and you win games, and hopefully putting on reasonable performances, it helps you to win enough games so that they can win business over way. But again, it was my view, while I certainly wanted to perform well and do as much as I could for the team, that first year gave me a good insight. And it gave me a very good relationship with the captain and the senior players and some of the younger players in the club. So by the time we came in second year, then I had a much stronger voice in terms of how we should be going about what we're going about when we're playing well how to reward and highlight and support. And when we were to speak out and pinpoint some of the things that should be happening and how we go about doing it from then on. So I guess that then passes that said, all the other background flowed into what I presented to Queensland cricket, when I interviewed for the role for that coaching position with Christ. And so it gave me a really good insight to me as a coach, and some of my reference points are always about vision, it's always about wanting to be ahead of the game, it's always trying to change the game, it's always about how do I create competitive advantage for us as a as a group, before we get on the field, also, about as I said before the person, not just the cricketer, it's about in a sense of never being satisfied. So no matter what we're doing, there's always room for improvement, whether it's a technical skills, your physical, mental, your tactical skills, or added to determine your leadership skills. So there's so much that can be done. And it was also again, tried to drive a notion of results. important results are important in business, life in politics, no matter where you go, certainly in sport, because a very international sport and leagues was very cutthroat business these days. And we often say no matter what the sport is that if the team's not winning a finger is pointed at the head coach, and that person is replaced very quickly. And it seems to be a Board's decision that that's the magic bullet for Biden, Excel wins. So for me just never being terrified, always trying to make sure that there's room for improvement, creating environments and so before that are really challenging and stimulating, and take people outside of their comfort zone so that they, in a sense, sending them out to be a better player into the future, as well as obviously trying to deal with today. So all those things were wrapped up into, I guess, philosophy and an approach. [PB2] And that's what I presented quite successful in getting a job from Jeff Thompson at that time. And we were lucky enough to win that Sheffield shield first year, which was incredible. And then it's been four years with resin. So five years in total, I had an unsuccessful season with Middlesex, but that taught me a heck of a lot about coaching and people and culture and so on. And so all those experiences the same sort of were folded into me as a coach took on the Australian cricket team. So you're always learning and so at that point, I was ready to become the center national coach and was given that opportunity. So again, in a sense, the thread was still really trying to understand the players individually and collectively how they operated, trying to understand the culture that was operating at the time trying to get close to the captain. So there was a real bond and a real relationship with him trying to ensure that we did have things that other people didn't have, whether that be training regimes, whether that be computer analysis, whether it be data, interpretation of that, whether it be uniforms that we will. So looking at all the little pieces that contribute to culture, but a team culture that's based on leadership, and it's based on performance[PB3] . So I suppose long answer to a short question. But there's some other piece I think, would find their way threading through any team that successful and potentially any team that's successful over a long period of time. Because I think there's a difference between high performance and high performing high performing is generally, again, you might have a good match to use Boyd and season but it's very hard to replicate very difficult to get back to where you were the previous season was for many high performance means you don't necessarily win everything, but you're challenging that first or second spot on the final spots every year. Not easy to do, obviously, but I think a real measure of a strong team a strong outfit, a team that is, in a sense, pretty well aligned with how they go about being successful.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 11:06
JOHN, when I was preparing for today, I watched a video where you talked about your application for that Queensland crouching roll, and the panel interviewing you asked how you would win the Sheffield shield, something they hadn't done to that point. But you replied by saying it wasn't about winning the Sheffield shield it was about dominating domestic cricket for the next 10 years, which I thought was a wonderful answer and talks a lot to the way that you approach setting a vision. So I'd like to ask you about your experience in setting vision for teams and what advice you would have to other coaches who are going through that same process of setting a vision.
John Buchanan 11:41
I'm not sure whether everybody, and every really good coach does do that. And that's no disrespect to anybody else. And it's not saying I'm Nick. But for me, it's always been a, I guess a bit of a feel in the field is based on I guess information and data. So if we went to that Queensland example, not that I was, I was closely fine acquainted with him, although I had been catching up cricket for two or three years prior to me taking on the role. So I'd coached union mile club university career club in Brisbane. And we had a number of players that were in the Queensland side at that time, so I suppose and a couple of whom had recently sort of Dawn from the question team, so I suppose there was always some conversations and some insights from them about what the quinzaine team was like, how they were being coached, what they were doing in training, so that information was probably the same with the Australian team because, again, quieter we had the inhalers and McDermott's water was coming back for his first final year or two more, but you know, Stuart, Lord, and tomorrow playing in the one day camp, so they would bring back some thoughts and insights, I suppose. And I guess, with that sort of information, I certainly believed in the Australian team that are only scratching at the surface, you know, they're they had some wonderful results in terms of pliers and great support from federal organization, premier Australia, yet, they seem to lose games, and they shouldn't lose games, or they lose deals that they shouldn't lose. That seems strange to me, and Queensland, and guess those that inside, but I also was able to reflect, as I said before, was 16 years ago, but on my experiences with Queensland and trying to win in Sheffield, so, so out of that, I guess the pieces kind of float around in your mind. And from there it is about dreaming. I think certainly in business, certainly in life, certainly in sport, I don't think there's sufficient time allowed for dreaming just what could be what's possible, not be constrained about impossibilities and all the reasons why not but don't be constrained, just the free in dream about what can be. And obviously, that's what JFK was doing back in another mid 60s, putting a man on the moon. And there's a wonderful sort of YouTube on that. And it just seemed to me that that that is so important to what a coach can do because with that vision, it means that then everything that you do, irrespective of results, is hopefully taken a step in that direction. And if you don't dream in your dark vision, then I think one you're limiting your current capabilities or capacities, but you're certainly putting a limit on how you're going to deal with the future. How are you going to stay in front of the game? How are you going to potentially win games, win tournaments where events win over a long period of time? What are the type of people that you need to help you chase down that dream? What are the proper support systems that you need to support those people has afford itself to be better at what you do? I think all leaders are visionaries, but I don't think that's necessarily good, bad, indifferent, wrong or wrong. But I go back to what I was saying before parents culture, that quinzaine team, what I had to do was work out my philosophy, and part of my philosophy is always about creating a vision. I knew that's what I did with people, teams business, writing, and that was a central part Cornerstone to my coaching philosophy. So that's what I would bring always to teams that I coach, and that certainly what I still do with my corporate businesses, and not that I necessarily can drain for a company, but I tried to get in understand the power of, of dreamy vision and allow them to try to do it themselves. And it's not easy, because I think we do tend to operate in in mindsets and constraints that directors in a certain sort of way. And a lot of times when people put their vision statements together, or whatever they want to call it like a call of mission or like going get caught up in the semantics, but it's almost something that can just be cut and paste and put into another organization just as easily. It always seems to me that the vision has got to have the capacity to differing gi view from the marketplace. Because in the end, if you're not differentiated, if you're not different than you'll do the same as everybody else does. And how is that going to gain you some competitive advantage, or how's it going to place you in a position to gain competitive advantage over a long period of time? So it does seem to me that I think I mentioned it before, sitting underneath vision, I suppose is this notion of always trying to change the guy that accept the status quo, which is never satisfied up, look at just ways of being different inside the rules and regulations that others do operate inside any environment, any industry, there are those rules and regulations. So but inside that, why do I need to apply or what is that I need to play the game the same way as everybody else. There are different ways of doing it. We need to explore and experiment and find those and then try to apply those and execute those in go.[PB5]
Paul Barnett 17:13
I'd like to talk to you about innovation in a minute, actually, because your record in that area is quite long. But I'd like to just follow up on something you talked about with dreaming and setting a vision because many teams these days create trademarks for themselves words that summarize their aspiration. Now, when you moved on into the Australian cricket team, you develop very quickly the idea of being principles. Can you tell us how you did this and how it was taken on or embraced by the team
John Buchanan 17:42
crave. Australia basically had a vision about making cricket Australia's favorite summer sport, which is natural vision for an organization and certainly aspirational for what they wanted to do as an organizing body. But I just didn't feel that type of vision was exciting enough, challenging enough, aspirational enough for a team that goes on a career field late and goes on a career field. So for whatever reason are conjured up, and I owe the bar laborers. And so first meeting with the team in Brisbane prior to the first test, match, and have in 99. I talked to them about a range of things. And really, I didn't know too many of them that well obviously i'd coached against state cricket. But at that point in time, there was only one quiz and member who was the booing in that game. And he's I was Scott Mueller. There was no other Queenslanders in the side. So I really felt that I needed to make a strong statement strong impact. And certainly always, for me, the starting point is about where is it that we're going to go where we want to be as a group. And so that's kind of the vision stuff. So So I said, we're going to go on this journey to Everest together and of course, the concepts, certain symbols in terms of being at the top of the world and not too many people can get there and requires teamwork, hard work, risk planning, etc, all those sorts of headaches. And that's why Stephen Warren, I think we're always on the same path because his mantra was around, take the road less traveled, and he was certainly personal Cricket History. So with that, I said, Well, if we go on his journey, and who knows how long that will be, but by the time that we finished playing as a group, we should have done something special in the game. And that kind of links back to this notion of changing the guy and doing things differently everybody else so we should have done something special. When the game that we would be given a label not warehouse but by other people who look at the game and much the same as the Invincibles. Not that we were going to be the new Invincibles, but the Invincibles were given a label because I achieved something very special in cricket in 1948 and as an Australian cricketer and So, therefore, the concept of Everest and the concept Invincibles for me, became quite interlinked. And so as a very visible beginning today, certainly on the dressing room was in terms of some of the messages that were was posting out there there was the concept of Everest and what that meant some of the things that we talked about in the team meeting and the idea of the Invincibles, and then we had one of the Invincibles, Bill Brown will come and present the two debutantes, they baggy green caps. And that was Scott Miller I mentioned and it was Adam Gilchrist the other one mine is Australia, that particular guy. And right through that series, we took it upon ourselves to ensure that there wasn't invincible at the games or as many events as they could get to the game. And if there was some other presentation has to be made. It was going to be made by the Invincibles[PB6] . And so he was a obviously a successful series for us. We won all the Test matches and against Pakistan and India. And we won the one day series, I think we lost just the one guy like anything, anything you anything that you try anything different, there's always going to be resistance because it is new, and it is change. Everybody likes certainty, and you like to do the things that other people is comfortable doing. And so one of the ways to overcome that as quickly as you can is obviously to get success. And we were successful. And so that really I think began to submit at least this notion of chasing Everest, albeit it will be defined in different ways at different times. But as a group we were on about change. And again, we're on about doing something different. And we're going to create a
Paul Barnett 21:42
piece of history, john, you have a reputation as being an innovator and you've talked about it in our discussion he you are not afraid to break with tradition. You've used statistics heavily in your coaching, you introduced coding when in the use of video, Pilates, and then more prosaic things like not using a nightwatchman. But what stops more coaches these days from being innovative.
John Buchanan 22:05
The most difficult thing I see from at least a league catching these days is that there seems to be far less patience, tolerance, understanding of the coaching process around teams, and those who reside, our field as administrators are board members, and probably answering to the shareholders or stakeholders, which have fans and so on. And investors and sponsors are very, very focused on getting results. And if results are not coming, as we said before, one of the easiest targets to change is to move on the couch. So I think while coaches might talk long term, their actions are all short term. And so innovative practice is less likely to occur in such an environment, in my view. So if coaches are given the reins to develop a team over a period of time, then I think you'll see more innovative practice, you'll see more innovative methods, you'll see more innovative thinking and more innovative behaviors and actions on field. But while the coach feels so insecure that their next game could be their last game, then you're always generally stick with what you know, potentially what worked and roll that out again[PB7] , I guess, again, I was lucky in a sense that my previous five years with quite a creative demonstrated that we could not only be innovative and experiment, but at the same time, be reasonably successful. And stand with that Australian team, same thing that were successful early. So that probably really gave me a bit more license and maybe if we had not been successful at the outset, and again, I faced the same thing I mentioned before Middlesex, and I went over there in 1998 I was brought in there by the board on the basis of what you did done in Queensland we would like you to do here in Middlesex because again, I've been very successful club but had like black success over the last 15 years or so and wanted to rectify that and wanted to make some changes and hopefully get some better results by the end of the season. And so at the same stage my getting had been the captain and almost long time patriarch of the of the club and stepped down and he had given the role to mark Ramprakash a young, very talented player who has come up through the ranks was playing for England gave him the captaincy. And then the other senior players Angus Fraser and Phil Tufnell. The three lads were actually in England were in the West Indies by varying and when I went over there for preseason, and again, it was a similar approach culture game was really important to me. And the signs that didn't speak to me being a team culture were things that I was really keen to target right from the get go. So for instance, they had Roman numeral twos on a hat and on the blazers if you hadn't been a cat player, and that was to signal that you weren't a cat player, you were second class by, you know, you're playing first class, you you weren't guard in the same light as the other other players. And obviously, they got other benefits as well, the cap players in terms of salary in terms of cars in terms of accommodation. So a preseason, we were changing a number of things to ensure that when everybody walked on the field, everybody was in a sense, an equal all the different roles, obviously, different skill sets. But that was right in the face of how Mark Ramprakash wanted to run the site. And his main object was to be personally successful. So he could fulfill a his ambitions of playing well for England over a long period of time. So in the end, that brought us into into conflict, tensions were easily seen and easily thought through in the dressing room. And subsequently, the team started playing very important. In the end, when I founded the board and was asked about what the future might be, was basically the take my Ramprakash and whether he wants to run this auto wire that I believe will be the way that I think it'd be more successful over a longer period of time, or bet that he may not be successful and season. So they often forget, obviously, that the former taking mark. And so that was me gone from that role. But again, I think they were taking the short term view, they wanted a quick fix, and I was unable to produce it for them. And so one of the best ways, therefore to at least that is all the tensions in the dressing rooms to get rid of if one of us was able this choice.
Paul Barnett 26:50
JOHN, you've had some outspoken players in your teams in the past, I'm not sure whether they were disruptive because I wasn't in the jacking room. But I'm interested, what are your top tips on dealing with negative peer pressure within the team?
John Buchanan 27:03
Yes, I think no matter what way you lead, or what you do, there's always going to be some really strong supporters and there's going to be some strong negative vibes. [PB8] So what you want to do, and in the main is a big group in the middle who can sweat all the work and cut to the chase, you know, we can talk about warning here, because shine was an incredible influence in the dressing room. So when I arrived into that Australian mix, there was probably four or five pliers who were fixed during that side at that time, the rest were coming into the side or coming in and out of the softened tenants demolition selves. So your fixed members were the two worboys there was Warner mograph. And probably slider would have been you know, the person that they were kind of fixed is in the saw the rest were kind of learning or trying to find a way that they could remain the sort of the likes of Langer, Haim Ponting and I mentioned go Chris was just making is to go LSP, Li Mark lane all as sort of named, or worse, around the periphery in and out, you know, they hadn't established themselves. So therefore, that's why shine was an exceptionally strong influence in the dressing room. And as a coach and as a leader. That's why it's so important to understand what your philosophy guides and principles are, because you're going to be challenged on those all the time, absolutely challenge us all the time. And the bigger the challenge, either by way of numbers of people who are challenging, or by the profile of the person who might be challenging, it becomes so important that you live by them, and you deliver them. So you coach with integrity, this is who I am, this is what I do. I deliver that all the time. And so that means it's going to take you into conflict with some people or groups of people or situations at different times, it's not going to make you are therefore popular all the time. But what it does do is it lets everybody know who you are what you stand for. And so therefore, that means every buyer, whether they like you or they don't like you know who you are, you're not turning up on different days as a different person altogether. Because coaching, just parroting or leading businesses is about relationships and relationships is based on on trust. And if an individual cannot trust their leader, their coach with a parent, then very, very difficult to establish a relationship. Now again, whether the person likes you or not, it just means that relationship is either a little bit stronger, a little bit weaker, but there's still a relationship there. But if the individual cannot trust you, then there's no way that they're going to actually develop any sort of long lasting relationship with you[PB9] . And so for Shane, it was at least reasonably easy in that first nine months or so because we're winning games. He was able to Do what he does best. And that was really good cricket. And again, he continued to do that right through his career. But it didn't really bring us into huge coffee. I must tell you a very quick story. There were, I guess it was a bit of a sense from his point of view that this bog is a bit of another. We were playing first test matching modern Aiden in New Zealand and heard about albatross rookery that was supposedly 25 minutes down the road. And as I said, I mean, for me, it was always about trying to take people at their comfort zones and outside of the dressing from outside and they create a battle. So I said, well, we're going to go down, have a look at this rookery because it's one of the few places in the world that we can actually access on the mainland this particular birds have been incredible wingspan and something that we possibly begin to experience again. So off we go and as a very as a novice catch in the sense and notice that he used to drive your own buses so instead of two vans, so I drove one but as always catch one and grow the other. So there was my number one mistake. So off we go. Number 10 mistake was that he lived away so I was behind him. So after 20 minutes, and we're on one of these little windy roads is killing us towards us rockery we single line, you can't pass, he stops the vehicle I sell behind him. And as I'm walking out to find out what's going on so many things are going through him ideas and instruct him to take the vehicle for because this is really important stuff. This is developing you as a person, all the people in your class, need to touch and feel and see here this albatross because it's an experience, it's a lot of experience. Do I just sort of listen to what he has to say? And then we'll get what I need to do I tell you I get to the window, he winds up to him. So I'm not going any further than I was going. He said, Look, we got a test match in a couple of days time has it albatross Can you help me play better cricket against New Zealand? So I said I need to go back and I need to get a massage and get myself ready. So better prepared to play. So rather than thinking, Okay, this is not the time to go into the whole person, Tiger, your comfort zone stuff, I'll remember that I sort of said Rob, those who need to go back and wind into this and work on sales to prepare for the test match. Jumping more, especially on the back end, I'll take the rest of your robbery. When I'm standing in front of an audience always inside. I drove off by myself to go to the rockery. But of course, there were a few tigers and arrows in the stables and people on the south probably had a bit. Anyway, we finally get down to the rockery. And there's a song again, it's closed, it's close because we got there at 530 in the thing, the robbery closed at five o'clock, right? I couldn't get out of tag heck and just birds on a rock Heck, and then have a guy that can still be getting into washing, but they did. So again trying to resurrect the situation or look up in the sky. And so these birds flying around, I tell the other guys every day. These birds are absolutely incredible that their wingspan is such that must be miles in the air. Now we can still see them pretty easily. Of course I get a dealer from one of my visor boys. It was on the tour. He said I'd catch the seagulls. There's a bunch of seagulls floating around out there. And I've tried to try to convince everybody that albatross. So as Tom went along, we then went to you today. And this is you mentioned that 16 Test matches that we run around. We're playing a seven eight Test match in Kolkata in India. And there was a famous partnership of Black Swan driver that in the end, took the game away from us, we had the capacity to drop but because we're kind of playing your strengths and your weaknesses, we played a certain way and they want to 16 games. So that seemed to be still how we should continue on. But we ran into this incredible partnership and put us in a situation where we had to try and save again, which we haven't done for 16 games beforehand, so didn't have to do it last again. But through that experience or through that particular game and wanted going into that series really ended up really unprepared because he had a finger operation or john or brash toes overweight, and just sighed and stressed all the time. And we obviously the series, it was in one hole and we still had an opportunity to win the series that again, hadn't been one for some 30 odd years prior to that. And so warning, Justin wasn't responding to any of the physio, any other trainers in terms of trying to work on having himself as freely as he could at that stage. And obviously that worry was was as a result of him still not looking after himself after his operation. So I spoke to the chairman selectors and home spoke as anymore and said, I've got a press conference coming up. And I think maybe there's an opportunity here to say something that might trigger a notion that he is just not looking out for himself that he wants to continue to apply for thrive, irrespective this guy is gonna have to look after himself. But anyway, so press conference. There's an asset something on the wire, and somebody else has one day and I say, Oh, he probably could be looking at himself as a veteran. Next morning, now it comes in the papers. kosis wants fat. So at that point, why he didn't talk to me for the next couple of days and run through the test match. But what he did, again, just continue to emphasize his passion for playing cricket and his passion for I created for Australia. He gave everything he possibly could. But on the field and off the field, he was just amazing in the dressing room, everybody that spoke highly of the person in terms of him being a competitor, trying to bring his technical skills together, also his mental skills to the game plus the rest of his teammates. So that probably strike that was definitely his training point of air relations. But what happened over time was that we began to develop a really strong unit of pliers that were they all the time, so that I mentioned before the Haydn's and the liners and the point of the mountains, the lemons and eventually an Andrew assignments, there was a cottage, etc. and Gil crews are so strong in and so what happened in terms of the management of warm or any of the players that that might have given times choose either to be critical of a coach or critical of something as a team, or not even probably critical, just be doing something that was not in the best interests of himself and all the time, then the group began to manage everybody. And that became really important to, I think, the success of the team because it really was around peer management. So while some things would come to the couch, or some things would go a manager or some things by guide or chairman of selectors, in the end, a really mature and strong union is one where he doesn't necessarily always require the foreign leader, Captain as well to be the person who has to intervene in the behavior of an individual, there are other people in there, they can see that, and there's something about it. And so it speaks very much to two things. One is cliche about the standards we walk past or the standards you accept. And that's so true. And that links to everybody's a leader, and something I really believe, while the leaders have got to walk the walk and talk the talk and lead by example, etc, leadership is in everybody. Therefore, if there is something not right, then it is everybody's responsibility to do something about that. And the more people that are doing it, the more mature and the more powerful that unit becomes, as a group that can produce success produce high performance[PB10] . And so that, to me is as an example. I mean, one example, as I said, there are other people at different times have stepped outside boundaries, and so on. But in the mind, we're all back in by peer management of very strong people in the song.
Paul Barnett 38:02
JOHN, just one last question, if I could, you've been very generous with your time. But I'd like to ask a question around legacy. And what is it the legacy that you really want to leave as a coach
John Buchanan 38:12
for the legacy is, firstly, around the individual. So I always want to do almost what we were just talking about always wanted players to be their own best coach. So in other words, my philosophy was to make a main software data. And to do that, that means players need to be very good at making good decisions, when they're required this both on and off the field. And so part of that is understanding when you're at your best, then what did I do to enable myself to perform like that. And if I can understand that, then I've got every chance of at least trying to replicate it might not be able to, but at least you're giving yourself a chance to do that. So that's the individual from a leaders perspective, I think it was always very much you use the word legacy, but it's always very much about if I wasn't here, tomorrow, what are people gonna say about me? What is it that I did that made an impact in the group and hopefully that has a positive impact. And then of course, from the team's perspective, it is all about you can be so much better than what you are. [PB11] You're always chasing that next Everest, you're always as Wayne Gretzky was often quite a newcomer, everybody can use quotes in all different words, but you inject the value, as you said, ice hockey, pretty important sort of guy, but we're studying in Canada 1986 to 88 in Edmonton, where the Oilers were the top of the game and Wayne Gretzky. 99 was obviously one of the key players in that period of time for them, he would always or he was at least quoted saying I never schedule where the puck is I skate to where it will be. And to me that sums up again, this notion of team or individual leaders, while I need to deal with what's here. Now, but I understand where I'm going. And that's how I position myself. And I think that's important for the teams and leaders to at least under have a good picture of good hold on that and drive that within their teams, businesses, organizations.
Paul Barnett 40:15
JOHN Buchanan, thank you very much for your time today. It's been wonderful to chat with you. And it's been very inspiring and I thank you for being so candid and sharing those stories with us. Thank you.