John Deeble Edit

Sun, 9/12 9:09AM • 33:54

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coaching, players, baseball, people, australian, job, day, kids, talk, game, team, play, years, data, professional baseball, marlins, tony harris, learned, olympics, balls

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Jon Deeble

Paul Barnett 00:00

There you go. You're comfortable. john paul. Good. Great. It's great to chat to you. Where in the world are you today?

Jon Deeble 00:05

Now I'm back on the Gold Coast. I'm back home. So we have a shutdown. So I'm not really worried. Well, I am working, but I'm not working. So I'm not traveling. But I've got all my house set up with satellites. So I've got games in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China. So I've been watching Korean High School games today in the Dodgers play. So I had free television going today.

Paul Barnett 00:25

That sounds like it'd be worth selling tickets to come and sit in here and watch a bit of sport with Yeah,

Jon Deeble 00:30

yeah, it's, it's good. I'm usually on the road, 200 days a year. So this is, this has been all new. And I just realized how much I needed a break, because I've been going pretty much 27 years on the road. And when I get home coaching in Australia, and I've actually enjoyed the break,

Paul Barnett 00:45

Well, I'm glad you brought up coaching, because the name of our podcast is, of course, the great coaches. And when I was researching great Australian coaches, your name just kept coming up time and time again. So we're honored. We're honored to get the chance to be today. And I actually wanted to start if I could read your parents, because I understand your dad represented Australia. But your mother represented Australia at netball, softball and baseball. Is that correct? That's right. I'm assuming you were born with a meat in your hand.

Jon Deeble 01:15

Yeah, that is correct. My dad played for Australia, my mother who just passed away two weeks ago, actually. sorry to hear that. So that's fine. She played sport in Western Australia. So she grew up playing three sports for Australia. And my father was a very good cricketer as well as baseball. But yeah, so we didn't really have much choice for more kids. And then my brother and myself and my sister played netball. So my mother before she died, my daughter's actually at the Australian Institute of Sport. She's on the Australian under 16. And under 18 Australian teams, my mother keeps reminding her that she got my daughter got a talent from her grandmother. So she always reminds her of that.

Paul Barnett 01:52

What coaching lessons Do you reckon you took forward from your parents into your own time as a coach,

Jon Deeble 01:58

I think probably the biggest one, they never interfere. Even though my father, I don't think there was a day he ever tried to coach me. And I tried to instill that in my case, I just keep telling my kids get better. You don't get picked on teams, and they had them. And there's been instances where they haven't been picked on teams. And I tell them all get better. Because when you're in this business, you hear a lot of excuses from parents or parents telling you how good their kids are. And I just never recall the day when my father gave me any advice. But there was never any excuses either just get better.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 02:26

You've been a coach if my research is correct for four World Series baseball winning teams. And you've either been a cultural scout with American professional team since 94. So I guess if you add all that experience in plus your parents, what do you think great coaches do differently?

Jon Deeble 02:42

Look, I think communication is the key Look, I was lucky it's really hard to do these days. But I was coaching in Australia after a Playing career and, and john balls who was with the Florida Marlins, our team was affiliated with the Florida Marlins and he came over and offered me a job and actually turned me down the first year. He came back the second year and offered me a job to work as a coach for the Florida Marlins. And that's how it all started. And I was scouting and I was coaching and it was interesting with them too. It was an Australian kid back in the early 90s going to teach Americans how to play baseball and but he was fantastic. He was a great mentor. He was a great leader, Rob leader. He was another guy Dave Dombroski. All these these guys with the Marlins are such a great organization. And basically I threw the balls out and said is the program and go and implement it. But I think the biggest thing that I've learned in that area is communication with players be honest, I still got players on from Australia that don't talk to me that I've had to get rid of but I can always look at myself in my heart and say you I did what was in the best interests of the organization. And I told you the truth. And that's something I always tried to do was be honest, as much as it hurt. A lot of people don't want to hear it but I think it's the best way [PB2] and buddy I've been lucky I get a World Series ring with the Marlins. When the Marlins was purchased the owner of the Marlins Mr. Henry bought the Boston Red Sox he took me and two other guys over with him. That was the start of and Theo Epstein become our general manager Craig Shipley is another Australian got on board. And it was the start of a new era. It was developing a scouting and playing machine. And we won four World Series in 30 odd years and they won. They actually beat us two years ago. So now that I'm over with the Dodgers book, it's been a good ride. It's I'm out of Australian baseball now. Yeah, so

Paul Barnett 04:20

I'm still doing my work with the Dodgers. But it's been a good ride for sure. It sounds like honesty plays a big part in your coaching philosophy.

Jon Deeble 04:28

Yeah. And keep I always say the other thing is, let's get the fundamentals right. I often talk to coaches when I was with the national team, the junior coaches, they'd have 27 different plays. I keep saying guys why? Let's do three really good. And let's you know, in professional baseball, that's what happens to I'm a big believer, if you've got the basic fundamentals down when things aren't going well. You're not going to fall very far. Because you've got the basics. And I say that a lot and I now with our Australian team, the timer there we really worked hard on pitching and defense, because we knew if we were perfect And didn't make a mistake in 27 outs, we were going to have a chance to win. And, and again, we will competing against teams that a lot higher quality than we were. And our philosophy was pitching and defense. And hopefully we could get a timely win games. But I think that held us in good stead we want a silver medal. In 1999, we won that Intercontinental Cup, I was the bench coach in my guns, the coach. And we took that team, we finished 15, two World Championships two, which was a great effort for a team that wasn't highly ranked. Actually,[PB3]

Paul Barnett 05:30

I'd like to talk about the Olympics, if I could, but not actually the silver medal. I'm really interested, you talked about how the results in the performance in 2000, where you didn't go so well, by your own expectations. Were really the catalyst for 2004 and the silver performance. Could you talk a little bit about what happened in 2000? To give you that energy towards 2004? Yeah,

Jon Deeble 05:53

look, what happened was I was put into the job, I think in the January, Mike Young was the coach and I look, I don't really know what happened to this day. But he ended up not being the coach and they threw me into that position. And look, if I look back now, I wasn't ready to do that. If I was honest, then it was overwhelming having it in your own country, the Olympics and the expectation. But yeah, I don't think I was really I didn't handle the plays that well. There are a lot of players that have played in the major leagues and at high levels. And but I think without the mistakes of 2000, we wouldn't have had the success 2004 we had a lot of players that stood up but Phil jauncey Sports site, we designed that over four years under his leadership and it was about perfect execution of the big thing that I work on and it's all through Phil Johnson. He is his perfect execution. The scores are relevant, the pitcher has to make quality pitches down in the zone the hitter has to take a quality swing, the infielders get behind every ball make a perfect throw to that first base, the outfielders get behind every ball, make all the catches the physiotherapist, he needed to stay up all night to get the players on the field, my assistant coaches had to perform at the highest level. So it wasn't ever about winning. It was about execution. So everyone had to execute their craft[PB4] . And that was something in coaching and professionally in the states is a lot different than coaching at the Olympics because you got 162 games in America, and it's about development and getting kids to the big leagues. But the Olympics, you got 10 days to strap it on and we're a million to one. And we beat Japan two times in three days, we beat dice game matters, ARCA who are end up signing for $103 million. Yeah, it was surreal. But the credit goes to the players, Phil jauncey, our coaching staff, everyone worked together. And again, everyone executed. And it was just little things like I remember David Nielsen saying one day it's really hot. Here in in Athens. Let's make sure everyone's got a bottle of water and a bottle of Gatorade on the bus. Okay, let's put that in play and, and it was about everybody having their say to and again, always a steering the ship. I've never been up there to say, Well, I was the reason that one it's about steering the ship and everybody doing their job. And that's basically what happened.

Paul Barnett 07:58

You say that you were just steering the ship. But I've seen footage of you on the sideline, and you're very calm. You seem to give very simple messages. I don't see you're seeing and raving. Is that something that you work at on game day?

Jon Deeble 08:13

Well, I just think it's part of baseball, that there's no point you know, ranting and raving. I think coaching changed a lot in the last 10 years. They all AFL footy thing it, I don't think it works anymore. Because I think our kids are different, plays a different these days. And I don't think that you can get in there. But we also knew that with our program, we also knew everybody and this was through Phil Johnson, we had player profiles and everybody so we knew everybody's player profile. And the guys that you can yell at the guys you can't the guys if they need a foot up the bum that you could get that from that was all profiling. And that what we do we know what makes people tick because of the profiling that we had. And you got to be cool. I think if the players see that you're not cool. It's very hard for them to stay cool. [PB5] Oh, I'm a big believer into that if you've done something higher than what you can and I'll give an example. I remember hopping off the bus in Athens and I remember David Nielson hopping off the bus and and also Graham Lloyd Phil Stockman, Chris Hawkes spring these guys all had played in the big leagues. And at the Olympics that were coming down a little. And before we had those guys, we always had to go out and play in a way higher level than what we were capable of doing. And I was back in 2004 and things like that and coaching in the minor leagues. I think it helps you prepare for Olympic Games even though it's just a such a different atmosphere. It's intense. And I was a wreck after the Sydney games again, because we didn't do well and, and I take responsibility for that. But again, I don't think we went silver medal without those failures,

Paul Barnett 09:46

insanity. I feel jauncey and learnings and history have been something that you've been taking lessons from history and building forward is it's been a big part of your success with the Aussie team. If you were talking to a coach that wanted to improve calm within their team, what are the first things you'd advise them to do?

Jon Deeble 10:04

When I went down to Melbourne to coach the Melbourne aces? I think they had a toxic culture. And it was just getting people in a room together and getting people to talk and getting them to understand each other. I'm a big believer in also that you've never walked a mile in people's shoes. I remember back when I was in the minor leagues, eight kids from the Dominican Republic, they'd never had toilet paper, never had electricity, never been to school. And I always used to say to our coaches, then they'd be yelling at their kids, what are yelling for how they're supposed to learn if they've never been to school, and I think players understanding where other players come from[PB6] . I have one kid and you may even know in petrick Pass Hetrick pass one for Super Bowl rings for the New England Patriots. I had Patric pass as a baseball player with the Florida Marlins, Patrick pass was bought up by a white family. And his mother and father were both passed away and people thought he was grumpy and but they never really probably wasn't their job, but really got down to understand why he may have been like that. He was a great key. And he was a great baseball player, he would have played in the big leagues in baseball, but ended up going fully into the NFL. But understanding players and what they've been through where they come from. I remember in our apartments years ago with the Marlins and things have changed in baseball now because you've got to get finished high school to get off the island now in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela and you have to learn English. But back when I was managing over there, I remember taking a vacuum cleaner into these kids to tell them to clean their room up in Spanish, I was counting San Ramon, well, let's go let's clean this room up. And I'm not thinking I handed them the vacuum cleaner. And I handed it to them. And they just looked at me then I pulled the cord out at the end of it. And then I realized these kids don't even know what a vacuum cleaners, they've never had electricity. So it's really funny that getting back to your point, it's to understand each other to form culture. And I think that getting everyone to like one another is a key and, and getting rid of getting rid of bad people in your organization. I think that's a key.[PB7] Also,

Paul Barnett 11:59

I wanted to talk to you about negative peer pressure within the group, could you talk about your experience with handling it, and maybe top tips that you've got for other coaches that are experiencing it?

Jon Deeble 12:09

Well, I just don't think you can be successful. If you've got a toxic clubhouse or toxic, it's really hard. A lot of times they are the best players. And I think in 2004, we had a great group of guys, I think we had a bit of a toxic thing going on in Sydney. But again, that's my responsibility. You know, I didn't realize all that at that time. That and or how to handle sitting people down and talking, you know, when these toxic people when you sit them down and talk to them. And that's one thing I do a lot, I have a lot of player meetings, you know, we were just talking the other over the melburnians or to my coaches you I think I probably would have 5061 on one meetings with with different places over different things and guys that weren't doing what they needed to be doing and getting that personal relationship and getting them to talk. [PB8] Phil Jones, he taught me a lot about that sort of stuff. And he has a great book out called managing yourself, accountability back on the athlete or the employee or the fantastic book. And it's called managing yourself and others Yeah, and it's about having players and having employees be responsible for their own actions. I learned a lot from him. And you know, we talk often about life and about athletes and all that sort of stuff. He was involved with the Brisbane Broncos, the Australian cricket team, he was involved with Wayne Bennett, Lee Matthews, he was involved in a lot of those guys. So he was a great help to me in my coaching career. And I learned a lot from him in regards to, to all that sort of stuff. And, and the other thing he taught me too, was having players because there's certain players that you need to have them think that it was their idea. That was one big thing that we learned to do over the years. And it took a long time because I didn't understand it. I'm not that smart. But he was able to walk me through and a lot of players, they're all there's players that don't play. But when they think it's their idea, they will go out and they'll own it. And that's one thing we did a really good job at over the years, both in the states and with our national team.

Paul Barnett 14:02

It sounds like the role of the head coach and a baseball team is psychologist father figure team coordinator. How would you describe your role as a coach in baseball when you're the hedge?

Jon Deeble 14:13

I think you're right babysitter trying to get in their head, the thing that you're trying to do every day is to get them to perform at their best. I think if you lose the club as you need to get your players onside. They know that if I go off, if I start yelling and screaming, well, it's deserved because I don't like to do it. And it's not something that you want to do. But every now and again, you know it's needed. But I've noticed the guys that I've coached over the years when I have gone off that they've sat there in silence, but that's the biggest key I think the communication talking with players and the guys that aren't doing well.[PB9] I had a kid this year. Lovely kid, one of my favorite kids are DJ Burt. I had him last year with the Melbourne aces and this year he just wasn't the same guy pulled him in I go What's wrong with you? Where's that guy that had a smile on his face last year and we always that guy that was a great teammate and, and he was like, Yeah, I get And I'll do a better job from here on in and indeed nice. He just wasn't the same as what he was he but once it was made he was made aware of and he was fantastic. Had a great year. One of the reasons we won this year, but and it's trading, everyone's different. And that's the one thing I think we do wrong in Australia often say this was on the radio the other day, we train holistically, we trained as a group. And I know with the Dodgers in my time with Boston, we train tools, we train individuals, we trade tools and train hurting people's tools. Yeah. So whatever the tools are, we get people to, to work on those not trained as a group. That's one thing I see in this country, everyone goes out and they trained together. But instead of if a guy needs to work on their running tool, they they work on their running tool, or they're throwing to all the hitting tool, and we don't seem to do that individually in this country.[PB10]

Paul Barnett 15:49

Can I ask you a question about it's interesting, that story you were talking about with the player of the ISIS? Hey, you, you read him and approached him? I find that interesting, because baseball is a game of technology, and data, everything is measured from a very young age. Could you tell us about a time you looked beyond the statistics and use your own judgment as a coach? And what role that plays particularly in your role with Representative teams?

Jon Deeble 16:15

That's a really good question. We have a lot of data on the national team, we have a stack of like other teams do, we could never afford to have advanced scout on the road. I guess we were lucky that fill down myself and Tony Harris had our own data from scouting in our jobs. But I always remember Jim Leyland, the famous baseball coach. He was with the Marlins and I used to ask him questions. And he said, You need to manage from your gut feel from your heart, there is your data. But there's times where you got to manage from your heart, your gut feel. And that was something I always tried to do to you put the the objective and the subjective data together to try and make a decision[PB11] . Yeah, look into the game now. And we started doing I think we were before our time in the baseball, we started putting the shifts on in baseball, which they do now nearly every hitter, we were doing it back in the early 2000s. We didn't know what we were doing. But all we were trying to do was to put the opposition off, because we knew that Cuba were way better than us. And if we moved all our position players over to one side, and you know, wouldn't make them change their swing. We didn't have the data behind to get that to know really what we were doing. But data is so important now. And if you look at professional baseball, data determines whether you're in the lineup, what you've done with that pitcher, data determines a whole lot of stuff in the game, who's in the lineup, what pitchers are going to pitch when they get a pitch. I was just watching yesterday there was or the day before the San Francisco Giants set down one of their best players. Because of data he didn't hit well against that, that pitcher. It's interesting, but it's here to stay. And I've done a lot of work with AFL clubs here and cricket clubs here in Australia, because the data has just become massive. It works this war that they have in baseball works. And we've tried to introduce it over here and AFL and the clubs just don't take to it. But I know it works because I watched it and I was involved with with Boston, not winning a World Series in 86 years and winning four in 13 years and winning five in 15 years. So it does work. And it's really interesting. Now then with the Dodgers, the technology that they have is way beyond anything I've ever seen in my age. I'm starting to learn it all again. And now we've got the rep Soto's and I've learned Rep. Soto and trackman are instruments that talk about vertical and horizontal movements and spin rates and all this sort of stuff and, and exit velocity and all this type of stuff that I've had to learn again, and it's been fascinating. It's been really good. And I've learned I say to people, I think I've learned more in the last three years, and I've learned in 27 years in the game, you got to keep learning and a lot of scouts that are older than me, they don't want to know about this sort of stuff. And I just kept telling them, you're not gonna have a job, you better conform to this and learn it. And that's something that I've spent a lot of time on learning all this data and what it means and how it works. Can I

Paul Barnett 19:00

am? That's a great answer. Thank you. I agree with you data is coming into all parts of life, whether it's selling beer, as I do here in Europe, or whether it's on a baseball field. So I think it's it's part of the new reality. Baseball is a game of symbols, you know, the coaches making symbols from the sideline catches making symbols. The rings are an important part of the game. And recently, we were talking to another guest, and he was talking about the New England Patriots and the signs in their facility say only one thing, just do your job. There's nothing else plastered around the wall. So I wanted to ask you about symbols and words, and whether there are any that you use in your coaching.

Jon Deeble 19:35

Well, again, going back to what we talked about before, it's interesting. You said do your job what that what the house is about executing perfectly. And it's the same thing. It's it's doing your job. So if everyone does their job in their organization, so we always used to say we don't want anyone to play better than what they're capable of. We just don't want them to play less than they're capable of. So if everybody does their job, and everybody executes, we're going to win win. Gonna, physios are going to be grayed out out, team leaders going to be great, their coaching staffs going to be great. So if everybody does their job, see, you want to be able to finish, whether you win, lose or draw, you want to be able to finish and say, Look, we executed, and there's no regrets. And that was a thing we used to use, too. If everyone does their job, there's no regrets. If you don't when it's when people don't do their job was if only, if only, if only. And we always like to change, if only with only if only if we execute perfectly, we will win. [PB12] Again. That's Bill jauncey. And that's what I learned from him. And he was a big part of that success, as I said before, but our symbols are very simple. Just execute and do your job. And it's like, it's the same thing. And I try to keep things simple. There's a lot of things with all this data. Now, I still think you can overcomplicate it. So I love the data. But we have to make sure that we keep it simple. Also,

Paul Barnett 20:54

what about anxiety? I mean, perfection is a goal can put a lot of stress on players. At the same time, they've got all this data coming at them. So how do you help players deal with self doubt? Are there any tips or tools that you use?

Jon Deeble 21:07

You know, you come across it all the time? I think everyone I think we all at some point in our life have self doubt. And I think that separates the good ones from the great ones. And again, the communication for me is what I've always gone back to when I think you have a problem with somebody when you expect more out of them than they expect out of themselves. And that's part of life. And that happens a lot. But to me, I always my default always communication at sit down it's talk and be open and get them to be open to you find a lot about people by sitting down and talking.[PB13] And again, that was one thing I really did a lot when I was coaching at the national level and coaching in the States. And in the States. It's interesting because you get kids from all kinds of backgrounds. You get rich kids, you get poor kids, you get Latin American kids and you get Venezuelan kids, you get European kids, we've had them all I remember one year I coached in the Marlin system. We had 30 man roster. We had 28 Latin American kids. We have one Australian Brett Cronenberg, and we had one African American kid in played centerfield, my hidden coach was Cuban. My pitching coach was Cuban. My trainer was Mexican. So I had to learn Spanish really quick. It's really funny. Now, when you stop using it, you'll forget it. But I actually got pretty good at and I had to because we had to communicate with with the kids. But again, it's sitting down community, but even back in the early Marlin days with a rookie balki that I must have had 1000s of kids in my office, just little things that they'd done wrong. And we have one kid one day I remember john balls got on the phone, we were coming back from West Palm Beach. And he said to me, I can't remember the kid's name. And I wouldn't tell you his name anywhere. But I could never remember his name. When I tell the story. He said when this kid gets back on the bus, he comes straight in my office. And john balls could put the fear of God into anybody, like nobody I've ever come across. I remember going into his office. Well, this kid, he test drove a car from a car yard, he never took it back. He kept it and they come down to the baseball complex to get the car back and balls he was furious. That things like that. The other thing to do and hit to sit those kids down and I bow the kid out of jail at four o'clock in the morning for a guy with a golf club down in in Florida. I could write a book on my life in doing it, that's for sure. But there were a lot of crazy things that went on that again, you'd sit down and talk. That's the key. For me. It sounds like it's not only talking but when you're leading a diverse organization, different ethnicities, older people, younger people, and they don't often speak the same language. It sounds like simplicity is also part of your communication plan,

Paul Barnett 23:37

or style. Yeah, look, I

Jon Deeble 23:38

try to keep it simple. But just thinking back now I think that was a good learning curve for me too. Because it was it was hard to communicate with those kids and you had to communicate with the other coaches you had to communicate with with the people above you coaching in the minor leagues. There was a lot of work that had to be done after hours of how each kid performed. But yeah, look, I try and keep it simple. I talked to john Buchanan a lot. We talk a lot about coaching and I was actually speaking to him yesterday. And he was talking about what Justin Langer does with the with the Australian cricket team. But again, he seems to keep it simple also, and I think you start confusing people, you lose them.

Paul Barnett 24:12

What about when you have a broad staff? Because baseball you have multiple coaches all through the organization? What advice have you got for head coaches that want to keep the message consistent? Well,

Jon Deeble 24:24

I think the one strength and I don't know if I was necessarily a great game coach, but the one thing that we had a fantastic coaching staff my years with Phil Dahl, Tony Harris, we had Greg jokes, who sadly passed away Graham Lloyd Pat Kelly, Damian Shanahan, we had a lot of coaches over the years, but I think the big strength of mine was let them do their job. So we employ them to do a job and when I was managing the national team, it's a massive mistake. I think Justin Langer was talking about it the other day, when he figured out that he couldn't do everything you got to delegate and Tony Harris was a fantastic bench coach for us as good as there is Around he was in charge with the catches signs and working with the catches. We had Pat Kelly or Michael Collins or Andy gray. Their job was to work with the infielders. Greg jobs, was working with the outfielders. Paul Elliott work with the outfielders first base coach Denise job filled out and Graham Lloyd had that had the pitchers. So my job really was to try and work out when to bring Pete run your bullpen and communicate with the players. And, and I think that was one of my strengths, too, is getting the coaches trust in the coaches. And once you trust the coaches, I think that you have a lot more success. I often see people wanting to wanting to go out and do everything themselves. And it's pretty hard to do. Coaching is hard at the top level, and people don't get how hard it is, you know, you get criticized or criticized the what we're coaching her. And it's not easy. And I'm sure people get on social media these days, I can't stand it. And everyone's got something to say, but they don't realize when you're in that hot seat, the game speeds up very quick. And you need good people around you and people that think they don't really crazy[PB14] . How did you deal with criticism, when it started getting personal when it started affecting my family. Towards the end there there was there was a lot of criticism and just unfair lies from certain people in Australian baseball now, the lies and fake Facebook accounts just tearing you apart. And there's people that are involved in teams, professional teams here now. And it was all personal. And it was never anything about coaching, they don't realize that you can make mistakes. This is not an easy job. And if it was an easy job, everyone would be in this position. It's tough. And what people don't realize it speeds up quick. When you start coaching a high level it speeds up and the game goes really quick. And that's what I say people, people will figure that out when, when and if they ever get a chance themselves. And you know, I copped a lot of criticism, probably the last two or three years. But at the end of the day, we want a silver medal, we finished fifth in the world twice with teams that probably shouldn't have been in the top 20. And that's not disrespect to our players, because we had some great players and great people and guys that did the best they possibly could. But the criticism, the social media, I just think, is a disgrace. I don't have social media, I just think those people that get on other people when they're no good themselves, but they're happy to go on and tell lies and make fun of people. And I just think it's wrong, because they've never been out there and coached at that Olympic level. At the Major League Baseball level, it's difficult. It's not easy to do.

Paul Barnett 27:22

Do you give your athletes your players advice about dealing with criticism?

Jon Deeble 27:27

I don't think like in professional baseball, where I was at there wasn't there wasn't the social media, like it is now there wasn't really social media around at that point. But like, I don't think too many of our players badly on the national team. This probably has been somebody again, the people that are writing these things, they got nobody. They've just got no idea. And some people don't like to read it. It is what it is. it's here to stay. But it makes me sick people that have got comments that are unfair. And when they haven't got the whole answer to us criticize the last World Baseball Classic for not pulling out young lockland wells for pulling him out. And again, when he was on a pitch count from the Minnesota Twins. And then two days later, I've got criticized for leaving him in by the same people, unfortunately gave up a home run. But our statistical This is where the statistical data comes in. I got crucified over it. But the statistical data that I was given from Australian baseball people said that the guy who was hitting hits way better against right handers and he does lift and I had a guy in the bullpen who was right handed. And the last pitching through for Australia at the same guy was hitting hitting for a home run. So we stayed with the left hand at young wells, he got hit for a home run. And I took a lot of criticism. But I had a plan. And data told us what we needed to do didn't work. There's an instance here where dad and I had the front Australian baseball and the question was, why did you pull him out? Well, he had a pitch count. Why didn't you pull him out two days later. And that's like, if I had to pull him out, and the next week, I'll get it for home run, it would have been Why didn't yell at me. So you can't read. It drives me crazy. These people on social media, then they come in, like shit, Kenya. And then they come and try and shake your hand and be your friend. And I've just unloaded on a few people that have been like that, like you can have you say, but don't come and try and be my friend after.

Paul Barnett 29:11

That must be heart wrenching a record when you've done your best for your country to have that kind of feedback come back at you. But john, the history book says that you were the pitcher in our first ever Olympic Games win. And you were head coach of that team that won silver and we won't go into the fact that it should have been gold and I want to take you down that path again. I won't I won't do it. But of course, if it was gold, you would be held and talked about in a different regard. But again, I want to talk about transitioning from player to coach and you did it very quickly. And I wonder whether you've got any advice from for other coaches who are in that transition

Jon Deeble 29:48

was probably quickly because I wasn't very good. I got into coaching really quickly because I figured out if I wanted to stay in the game, it wasn't gonna be as a player. But look, I was sort of lucky that john When I was playing in this rain league when he came up and asked me to coach with the Marlins, so that's how it sort of started. I got a phone call in 1996 to go to the Atlanta Olympics. And I went into C balls. You know, I was managing with the Marlins at that point. And he said to me, You either go to the Olympics and lose your job, or you stay here and have a job. And it was an easy decision for me because I was finished in 96. That was right. And it was a surprise phone call, to be honest, Rob Dirksen who unfortunately passed away. But what that was the best decision I ever made in my life, that was in 1996, I reckon was April of 1996. And I'm still involved in professional baseball, you know, 24 years later. And I remember ballsy saying it's the Olympics are your job. So the transition was easy. For me, I think it was really hard. In 2000, I had a lot of a lot of close friends that I had to get rid of off the Australian team, that were my teammates, and my roommates, I had to set some people that were very close friends of mine, didn't talk to me for a long time. And yeah, one of them is around the corner, we're good friends. So look, that he's really tough going from player to manager with guys that you play with is really hard to do. What advice be honest, I would say that the Be honest part of it, because he I heard some people along the way. [PB15] And, and I was talking to one of them just the other day from the 2000 Olympics, Brett suitably. And I said, if we look back, I may not have made the right decision at the end of the day. But I have to make a decision. And what I thought was he was done as a pitcher. And that was tough. We talked about it just the other day, because he lives around the corner. So it's really hard. You know, I look back and back back in those days. It was sort of laid by the front being a leader and just jump on and follow sort of thing. And luckily, we had a group good group of guys. It's interesting, that group, the mobile monarchs of 1992, we're still all catch up on zoom. We've had a 10 year reunion, a 15 year reunion, a 20 year reunion. And we're planning on going went to Vegas for the 20 year reunion. And we're planning on going again next year. And so all the guys from 1990 to a whole lot of them still talk to each other, and we catch up with each other special group.

Paul Barnett 32:14

JOHN, you've been very generous with your time if I could ask you just one last question. And it says, What legacy Do you believe you are leaving, or have left as a coach?

Jon Deeble 32:24

I'm really disappointed with the the Olympic team. I started with the Australian team I never got Thank you. The time you put in. There was never ever thank you. That's one thing. Australian baseball I think is really done a poor job, not just me. But with the whole coaching staff, I think you always want to leave something better than where you found it. And I think we did that we took a team that would 15th in the world to fifth, fifth or sixth in the world. I'm six for the most part. And I think we had some success. But I like towards the end, I was really into developing our kids develop[PB16] , you know, I run the MLB Academy for for 12 years. And that was all about developing kids getting them to the next level getting them into professional baseball or into college. That was a big part[PB17] for me. And that's probably one criticism I have of our Australian league. There's too many imports. We don't have enough Australians playing in our league. And now keep saying that there's not enough players, which is not correct. I just think that what are we doing this for? We should be developing Australian players. And that's the one legacy I think that Aaron Whitefield played in the major leagues just the other day. He says, I spent some offseason with Aaron trying to work on his arm because he hurt his shoulder. And I did a lot of drills with Aaron to try and help him and you know, he wasn't with the Red Sox or he wasn't with the Dodgers. But you know what, he was an Australian kid that, you know, we wanted to help. So let's assemble all the kids. You want to help them and I hope we can get hundreds of kids in the major leagues. That's the legacy. I think if you leave and you want to leave,[PB18]

Paul Barnett 33:45

john table, thank you so much for your time today. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Good on you. Thanks for that. That's great. Cheers, john. Bye. See you Bye