Katey Stone Edit
Mon, Mar 13, 2023 4:24PM • 25:46
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
team, coach, players, kids, play, puck, locker room, decisions, athletes, ice, harvard, game, conversations, understand, people, college, important, wondering, katie, successful
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Katey Stone
Paul Barnett 00:00
Katie stone Hello, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Katey Stone 00:05
Thanks for having me, Paul. It's certainly a pleasure.
Paul Barnett 00:08
The pleasure is all ours. Katie, could I start by just asking you where you are in the world and what you've been up to so far today.
Katey Stone 00:16
So I'm in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in my office at Harvard, and getting ready for another game tonight against Boston College. And in a little while here, we've got the kids coming in for pregame skate and in a team meal with a little pre Scout video, and then a little bit of time in the afternoon to do some administrative stuff. And then the puck drops at 6pm. Here, Eastern Standard Time. Well,
Paul Barnett 00:38
we've got you on game day. So I'm very much looking forward to this interview, because I'm sure a tinge of that will come through in your answers. Katie, could I start by just asking you, you've been to the World Championships, you've been to the Olympics, you've spent some time with some great ice hockey coaches across North America. And I'm wondering from this experience, seeing these men and women up close, and wondering what you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart. I think a
Katey Stone 01:07
few things, great coaches listen to their players in a measured way, it doesn't necessarily mean that everything their their players say they're going to do or try to adjust to but I do think over a period of time that you are with your athletes, do you begin to have greater trust in them, they build more stock in your program, and hearing what they have to say, can be critical to the success of any team. And you know, the other part of it too, I think is being authentic, and having your team's see your authenticity. And to me, the best coaches are the ones that are the most convicted about what they're trying to do. We're in a world where things are changing, and everybody wants to do the new shiny thing. But I also think that being clear on what's important, where you're going, why you're going there, and what's in it for everybody is really important. It is[SB1]
Paul Barnett 02:02
fiercely competitive, says Regan Carey, the general manager of Team USA. And I imagine that this competitiveness must have come from growing up with three siblings who I understand have all gone on to careers in athletics, and a father who was also a coach. But I wanted to ask Katie does this competitiveness ever get in the way of your coaching,
Katey Stone 02:23
I mean, I'm sure that there have been a handful of times in my coaching career where I've probably gotten a little too fired up about a few things. But I think it's great. I mean, again, once you're with me, I was very competitive. I'm a very competitive person, whether we're playing cards, we're playing hockey, I'm playing golf, I want to be the best I can be at it. And I want to if I'm playing in a team environment, or a part, you know, tennis, for instance, I want to do everything I can to be the best for my teammates. And so that's who I've been since I was a kid. That's how I grew up. I grew up always trying to do my best and work my hardest. And if I did that, then I was probably going to be pretty successful. And so that's the kind of foundation that shaped me. And but there are sure there are times when it just you feel that there are in justices potentially on the ice or in different situations where you might get a little bit more fired up. But for the most part, I think I've I'm pretty measured. And but I will always fight for for a one of my athletes or one of our teams, regardless of the situation if I think that there's some sort of injustice and that's generally when things get under my skin. But I'm not, I'm not the kind of coach that gets after officials, I think that there are times to highlight if they're in the wrong or in the wrong position. But at the end of the day, they're trying to do their best to they're not trying to tip the scale in one way or another. So it's a very hard job, I have a lot of respect for that. And so I think it's important for our team to, to understand that things are gonna happen, and you're not gonna be able to make some changes to decisions that are made you just got to work through
Paul Barnett 04:02
it. I've heard you describe your coaching style is focusing on perfecting a few things, versus trying to do a lot of things average. So I was just generally curious, what are you trying to perfect right now?
Katey Stone 04:15
Well, I think, you know, and that's the thing and talking about that sort of the new shiny things every once in a while we get caught up in trying to do some different things and and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't and so much of what we do is personnel based you can't do X powerplay if you don't have the players to do x power play and so we certainly we want to be a great for checking team we want to be a great passing team and we want to play really good defense and so those are the things that we focus on. And again you know,
it's it's interesting with with young players and young athletes, they want to just do skill work skill work, shoot puck shoot pucks all the time, but it's all that the other elements the the fundamentals to me that are critical the skating The passing the ability to play really good defense when you don't have the puck. So focusing on those things, we harp on that all the time. And again, sort of keep talking to our teams about when we have the puck, that's when you're creative. This takes hold, and you're off to the races, when we don't have the puck, we have to get back to making sure that we're relying on our systems defensively.[SB2]
Paul Barnett 05:23
And is there anything away from the ice that you're trying to perfect right now?
Katey Stone 05:28
Well, I think you know, when you have a young team, as we do right now, kind of continuing to instill in them how hard they must work to be successful at this level. And you know, if you're doing well, you've got all these really good kids. And they're skilled. And they're, they're excited, and they played a lot of hockey. But they haven't necessarily always played a lot of discipline, hockey, and then they get here. And if we're not disciplined, and we're not trying to pay attention to little things, then things can get away from you pretty quickly. And I think that the biggest thing for our kids right now is to understand how much they have to put into this how hard they have to play in order to get the results that they want
Paul Barnett 06:09
it you took over way back in the 9495 season back in the 90s. In for the next three seasons, the team was below 500. I'm not sure if you suffered any self doubt back then I'm not sure whether that's you know, a part of your makeup. But if you did experience any self doubt back then what did you learn from handling it?
Katey Stone 06:30
I didn't really because there were some big games that were won. During that time, like a Beanpot championship and some other we were sort of the giant slayers in certain cases, you know, you're always young dog is a heck of a lot easier to be the underdog sometimes than it is to be on top. And so my mentality was was always building we're building.
And you know, these things go in cycles. And recruiting goes in cycles. And success often goes in cycles. And so I just continue to try to I mean, I'm a fixer and putting a puzzle together is basically what this is about putting a lineup together, putting a team together. That's what that's the fun part of this in 30 years when it's definitely going to be a challenge. But I've always sort of looked at that and presented to our our teams like this is we're building here, you're part of something big. And sometimes you're at the ground level, sometimes you're right before the penthouse, and that's what keeps me going. And because otherwise, if you if you get discouraged, this isn't the business for you to be in. Because there are gonna be a lot of ups and downs, no matter what, no matter whether you have a great season or an average season. So it's always just been a building mentality for me.[SB3]
Paul Barnett 07:41
Well, that building worked well, because in 9899, you won the championship. And I'm wondering, when you were building when you were putting the foundation's together, were there any big decisions that you made back then that ultimately drove that result?
Katey Stone 07:55
Yes, I put the best players together. And I didn't, I don't think I did it initially. And they all didn't like each other necessarily. And they all didn't have mutual respect for each other at the time, because they're really different players, and different people with different egos. And it was a bit of a challenge at times, it eventually clicked where they understood that the production of their line, the success of their line was not just driven by one person, and they parked their differences and just got out there and played the best the three of them could play. And they were one of the most prolific lines in college hockey history. And so that that along with all of our other good players playing their roles, was significant to the success of that team.
Paul Barnett 08:41
It sounds like it might have been a lot easier said than done. Yeah,
Katey Stone 08:45
I think so. I mean, we'd never beaten the University of New Hampshire, my alma mater, which is a just a storied hockey program. We did not beat them until that year, and we beat them four times in and one in our conference championship in overtime. And then in the national championship in overtime. So that year, we had so many firsts. It was super exciting. Everyone on that team remember the day that we lost in November. And that was the only time we lost in. So it was a magical year. It was a crazy, exciting year. But it wasn't without its challenges. I mean, we had a lot of kids in our program, some kids didn't get to play much. That's always difficult to continue to keep them you know very much immersed in our program and feeling valued and successful. So every year doesn't matter what the record looks like. There's always a million stories behind it.
Paul Barnett 09:36
But now with over 500 wins. As a coach, you've seen so much success up close, but I am wondering what team dynamics cannot be solved by winning
Katey Stone 09:46
selfishness, self focus, meanness,
I think that no matter what we try to do, if you don't have strong character, and I mean, the positive, strong character in your life locker room, and enough of it spread around so that if there's ever any negative noise, it can be tampered down immediately. No matter what you do no harm, no matter how talented you are, it's going to eat you alive. And, you know, we live in a day and age where it's all about me, me, me, me, me. And I think our our situation here at Harvard is a transformative experience. It's not just transactional, it's not just let's sign somebody up in for a scholarship, or they're going to do this, and we're gonna get this out of them. There's way more to this. It's about getting these kids to realize that they're capable of so much more than they think, and setting them up for success for the rest of their lives. It's really a 45 year experience and decision that they're making to come on board with us than it is a four year let's play in a big rank. And let's play in front of a million fans. And I think that those things are important too, for sure. But it's more about being a high character person. And if somebody comes in and they don't necessarily have all the ingredients of that right off the bat, that's what we're trying to teach that team is the most important thing that the biggest priority for us bigger than winning.[SB4]
Paul Barnett 11:16
Okay, if you spot selfishness, how do you deal with it?
Katey Stone 11:20
I bring him in.
I was certainly I think two things have to happen, not just I think successful programs have strong coaching leadership, but they also have strong leadership among their players. And some years you have great captains. And some years, you have kids that don't want to have those tough, courageous conversations. And so when you do have that strong leadership, it makes all these things much easier, because they're, they're in the trenches, they're in the locker room. They're, they're helpful conduits in getting some of these things squashed sooner rather than later. But I mean, I have no issue, having conversations with kids about sort of changing their perspective and what that would look like, if that happened to be, you know, that type of behavior might be put onto them versus them putting onto someone else. [SB5]
And, you know, I think we also, this won't be a surprise, but we also live in a day and age where parents are so immersed and invested in their, their kids athletic careers that they they don't understand how to step back. And somebody told me once about an I don't know who said it, but you can only be one of four things, you can be a player, you can be a coach, you can be a ref, or you can be a fan fan slash parent. And when you try to do both, it usually doesn't work out so well. And so we try to kind of control the noise that happens outside of our team in our locker room, because it generally is not helpful. But it's often where the stems, you know that selfishness and Venus comes from
Paul Barnett 12:53
one of your athletes, Jen bottle, had this great quote about you, Katie, she says, Coach has this amazing ability to motivate you. She has great systems and all, but it's this combination of demanding and understanding that makes us such a great coach. And it was the back half of that quote that really caught my caught my eye. So I wanted to ask you as balancing demanding and understanding always been something you were good at? Or was it something you had to learn and develop? No,
Katey Stone 13:21
I think if I'm it's nice to hear Jen say that. I'm good at that, because I appreciate that very much. But I think it comes from my experiences as a player and my experiences as a college student and a college athlete. And it wasn't perfect for me. I didn't go in and play immediately, all the time. And all the big situations I had played in when I was in high school, I thought I was going to walk into college and it was going to just happen just like some of my players do now. And boy did I learned quickly that that wasn't the case, because I'm sitting there. Couple minutes left in the game or down a goal. Were up a goal, big situation. Something that I always was in always wanted to be in. And I'm sitting on the bench. And I had to figure that out. Then my dad tried to warn me, he tried to warn me that I wasn't in the shape that I needed to be or I wasn't as focused and that I needed to be. And I was like, let me figure this out. Well, I figured it out pretty quickly. And I have that experience to draw on as I do try to balance being a college kid, having fun in college, making good decisions making not so good decisions. I'm a big believer and good kids make bad decisions sometimes and you just have to figure that out. And just to have that empathy is really important. And I think that's the reason why I try to be patient and have more more of more tolerance for some of that stuff. Because I certainly know playing hockey is hard period. It's tough. It's it's a great game. It's a hard game to play and to do it at the level our kids are trying to do it at amid an incredible academic experience. college experience. I mean, it's a tough It's a triple threat. But it's also it's incredible when it works, but it's really, really hard. And so certainly, they understand that, that I've been there. And I think that's part of the reason why I don't go off, like, run off get like on a temper tantrum about something because it happens, these things happen[SB6]
Paul Barnett 15:18
to you say, I love it when the light goes on. And they realize they can do so much more. In fact, you alluded to this earlier in the interview. But I'd like to ask you, what top tips do you have on helping people? I mean, some of the people you're dealing with are already high achievers. I mean, they're at Harvard. So how do you help them lift their self awareness and realize that they're actually capable of more than they think?
Katey Stone 15:39
I just challenged them all the time. I'm very clear. And all the people that have worked in my program, I'll never ask anyone to do something I don't think they're capable of never. And we don't talk about points. We don't talk about who score points and how many points you have. And those I have no, that stuff takes care of itself. So it's just I don't know, I just challenge him. And I've been I and I do it in a really respectful way. I mean, I don't swear, I don't curse. I don't think that's how you motivate young people. It certainly wasn't how I was motivated and would not have been if that type of behavior had been put on me. But you can get after kids and say, Come on. I've seen you play better. And, and they know what I mean, I did it right after practice. Yesterday, we had a tough weekend. And I, you know, had little mini conversations with coincidences that I've seen you play better, I know, you can do it. And they know it, that and that these kids are about excellence, which is awesome. And sometimes it's debilitating to for them because they don't want to fail. And so I've seen kids teeter on Well, if I don't try, maybe I don't fail. And to me, as long as you don't quit at what you're doing, you don't fail. And if you're trying your hardest, you don't fail, no matter what the end result is. And so continuing to talk to those the kids about saying, Look, you can do this, you're you, you've got way more in you than you think. And is it easy? No, it's not easy. But at the end of the day, it's going to be incredibly satisfying. So that's kind of where I go with it[SB7] .
Paul Barnett 17:11
Where did that definition of trying versus failing come from?
Katey Stone 17:16
I've been so fortunate to coach so many different athletes at different levels, and even the international level, kids just not wanting to take a risk because they wanted to stay in their comfortable box. I mean, I think you have to get on, you know, uncomfortable being uncomfortable, excuse me, and, and some kids just want to stay right here. But at some point, staying right there in that little comfortable space is not going to be good enough for them to either make a team at a higher level, or be really significant at that level.
Paul Barnett 17:47
How do you one of the things that your players do on the ice is they show appreciation physically, for the person helps them make the play that leads to the score when I'm wondering what other roles gratitude plays in your program.
Katey Stone 18:00
If I can tell you a quick little story, so I don't make a lot of things up. I am a student of the game. I love to watch other people's practices. I love to read different things about different coaches, and Dean Smith, who you may be familiar with the longtime UNC basketball coach, incredibly successful. He said, I mean, in his book, I forget the name of it, but basically, their players, whoever got the basket turned around, and I'm sure they still do this turn around and pointed at the people that pass them the ball. Because at the end of the day, it's about the playmaker. And because you can't, you know, you're not even if it's the goaltender who rips up a puck all the way up the ice. And then somebody taps sit in you turn point in a show appreciation for that play. And we're and I think in our culture, we're so focused on who turns the light on who scores the goal, all that celebration right there. But our kids from the day they get here, they understand that we are going to appreciate the play. And that shows great value. And that shows. To me, it's just another, our team culture that we continuously try to work on. And gratitude is really important to me. I think sometimes we forget that we're in an incredible place. And we have this great opportunity and gift and it goes quickly. And so showing appreciation and gratitude for your teammates, and the opportunity to play at such an incredible university and represents such an incredible university or your national team. I mean, all those things there. They only happen for a select few. And so I think if we're grateful, we're probably going to be a better teammate. We're going to have a better team.
Paul Barnett 19:45
Do you catch the national team to a world championship win and an Olympic silver medal? But when you're working with these representative teams, how do you manage that tension that comes from people being more concerned about making the team versus making the team at all,
Katey Stone 20:00
it happens at every level, we just had this conversation in a locker room in Minnesota this past weekend, where it's so on the national team to start, I think it's so hard to make a national team. And it's so hard to make an Olympic team. I mean, typically, it's 22 players every four years, maybe not even that many, because so many of the we have Olympians. So it's such a small percentage. So the just getting there and making a team, right, there is a massive accomplishment. But then, as a coach, you have to make sure that you have not, they're not going to just settle in contentment. After that, they make that team, they're actually going to make your team better. And so that's a huge part of the process of the selection process. And, and, you know, giving kids a lot of opportunity in different situations, so that you can see that they won't become complacent, they won't just be satisfied with making that team. They're there because they want that team to win. And they're desperate to win.
And, you know, my philosophy has always been that every success story started with a kid who hated to lose. And if they don't hate to lose, then you've got a problem. Everybody's got to be pulling in same direction. And, and it's the same thing here at the college level, it's not enough just to get into Harvard and complain our program, and just wear a jersey, you need to have quality time in that jersey. That's the goal, not to just have playing time, but to have quality playing time, and to do whatever is needed to help your team be successful. [SB8] At speaking
Paul Barnett 21:33
about selections, you were an All American lacrosse player at college. But unfortunately, you didn't make the national team. And I'm wondering now that experience has shaped the way that you announce selection decisions,
Katey Stone 21:46
depending on the organization that you're working for. Everyone has different views on how those things should happen, right? Put up a list, have a conversation, do it in front of a team, or do it in front of the entire group. And it's I'm not saying any of them is wrong, I think you just have to figure out what's right for you. And I've been on the other end of hearing those hard decisions. And they're very disappointing. And, you know, I think for me, what, what I wanted was I wanted to know why. And everyone wants to know why. And so when I was coaching the national team and the Olympic team, after every single camp, I had conversations with players, whether they were going to be coming back for the next event, what they needed to do to be invited back to the next event, or that they they were not going to be there anymore. And as hard as those conversations probably were, I would imagine that they respected that time. And that information. And so the more transparent we can be, and the more direct we can be with our feedback, then it may still sting and sting for some time. But at some point, they're going to understand why. And be able to absorb that a little bit better and move past it. So I just it's also I just think it's it's a huge, you know, it's doing those things with proper communication and respect is really important.[SB9]
Paul Barnett 23:07
That he just one final question, if I couldn't, earlier in the interview, you said, coming to Harvard, playing in your team is a 45 year decision. And so I'm wondering, with that context, I imagine you actually say that to the players from time to time, how does that impact you when you think about the legacy that you would like to leave as a coach?
Katey Stone 23:28
Well, to me the reason I do this, and I never thought I would be a college hockey coach, I thought I might be a college lacrosse coach. And when I took this job, and I had an you know, I loved my coach. And in college, he was one of the best, I had a great relationship with him. But I didn't have a great relationship with a lot of my teammates, because it was a very self focused team at the time. And so it wasn't always fun to go to the rink, and to play hard. And to be successful. We had an really successful team, but they were so self focused. And so I made a commitment to myself when I was fortunate to get this job in 1994 that no matter what our players, we're going to love coming down to the rink. And we're going to have a fantastic team culture. And that has been the one thing that I probably worked the hardest at, and because that's something you have to work on every day. And it's not easy. It's getting harder and harder, quite frankly, when we talked about sort of the soap self focus SNESs and, and pressure outside of our locker room. If you can do that. You've got something going and that's like having another player on the ice. If you've got a great team dynamic and I know and our kids know when they go out and they listen to their pals at home or they played somewhere else. They know it's not the same as it is for us. And I'm the most proud of that because I think you know, we're trying to do a lot of things for our for our athletes. We're teaching life lessons on ice and that's what hopefully that pays dividends for the next 45 years, but in our kids go out and do whatever they want, after college and to me, I'm just as proud of that as I am anything else[SB10] .
And I think it's, you know, we're doing our part to challenge them to keep creating resilience and confidence and, and, but at the end of the day, they come back in droves for alumni events because they just love the environment. And to me, that's what I'm most proud of.
Paul Barnett 25:27
I think life lessons on ice is a pretty good place for us to finish. So, Katie stone, thank you so much for your time today, especially as you've got the game tonight. So all the best for this evening's contest. I hope it goes well and I look forward to seeing the progress of the team through the season.
Katey Stone 25:43
Great. Thank you very much, Paul.