Kelly Sheffield edit
Wed, Aug 30, 2023 8:00PM • 40:43
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
players, coaches, years, coaching, great, volleyball, work, team, kelly, family, dayton, optimism, program, strength coaches, wanted, care, job, good, moment, trust
SPEAKERS
Kelly Sheffield, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Haley Sheffield. Good morning, my time. Good afternoon, your time and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Kelly Sheffield 00:06
A great morning. It's great to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:09
Well, Kelly, I feel like I'm looking in the mirror, we both have a very similar hairstyle I see. But like you said, you shared shave today, and so great to see you on the other side of the world. And I'm really looking forward to hearing a little bit more about your program and how you've been developing yourself as well as a coach over the years. But could I start at the start, which is the interaction you've had with some great coaches, I can can see that you've had time you spent time with Barry Alvarez, Denise VanderWaal. And of course, Steve chandelle, who I know had a big influence on you or two. And I'm just wondering, Kelly, from this perspective of meeting these people and working up close with them. What do you think the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?
Kelly Sheffield 00:54
Yeah, it's, I'll take a step back here, I've never, I've never played a game in my life. And so when, when I first started, when I was first introduced to the game of volleyball I there was, there was probably nobody that knew less than me. And I'm sure there'll be some fans that would say, that's still the case. But it's so, so much of it has been picking a lot of people's brains. And just a lot of discussion, a lot of watching film, a lot of you know, in the early days, you know, back with you throw a cassette tape into the car and listening to to some different things, maybe on how to you know, how to recruit or something. And I'd read an article or watch a VHS tape of coaching and just calling up those coaches and ask them great questions. And it's a, you know,
I think that the coaches that I that I look up to the ones that I think that are really, really good, not just in volleyball, but across the board, I think that there was a curiosity that, you know, that certainly I have, I've had to have, and I think a willingness from a lot of people to be able to help me along along the way. I think different levels of coaching, you're there. Some hats are very similar that everybody has, and then there's different hats that depending on the level, I think no matter what, you've got to be able to have a vision, I think the coaches that you spoke about, you know, were visionaries and had a vision and an idea of where they're wanting to go, they were great at communicating what their vision was to, to the people around them, whether it's staff or administration or the players, the recruits their families. I think the names that you mentioned, were great teachers, you know, coaching at the end of the day, we're, you know, we're teachers [PB1]
and that I came from the school that I went to in college was is called Ball State University. And that's a, it's a teacher's college. And so the people that were older than me that were there in, in this little town of Muncie, Indiana, people that went to Ball State, most of them were teachers in their careers, their, their, their eight to three jobs i i guess we could say, and so when I first got around the coaches, I saw it through a teaching lens, you know, building progressions, not coaching through your personality, but, you know, actually work on the fundamentals. And I think those names that you mentioned, all all kind of fit into that. I think enthusiasm helps, you know, what we're doing is really, really hard. You're we're asking our players and our staff to do very difficult things put a lot of a lot of work and blood and sweat and, and hours into it. And you know, if you're not doing it with enthusiasm, I'm not leading with enthusiasm, it's hard for people to follow. And then I think you've got to surround yourself with great people, right? I mean, it's a people that people that you want to be around on on a day to day basis. And that's that goes from your staff to the players. And so you know, we spend a ton of time with each other you were on planes and in the gym and on buses and hotels and and the office, and you have to have people around you that you enjoy being with day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year.
Paul Barnett 04:50
Talk to you about the staff choices you've made later on but I want to pick up on this idea of you never played the game in fact, it's quite it comes across in your other in But I wanted to sort of look at it from a different angle. Because I know that you helped out in camps when you're in your early teens, but you really started coaching at 19. And I'm just wondering, given that you didn't have a deep background playing, was there a person or an event that ignited this passion in you to coach
Kelly Sheffield 05:21
I went away my freshman year on college to school, went back home at for a year to go to the local university. And I was a runner in high school came back, and I was coaching our junior high cross country team. And I got to talking with somebody who was coaching, the junior varsity volleyball team that we graduated with. And she asked me, you know, we, I offered my help, I went in there. And immediately, you know, I was an individual sport athletes and, you know, i running is can be lonely, but know that you're on a part of a team, it's still very much an individual sport, the team dynamics, the systems of volleyball, and then people that you could just tell were really, really good. And the teams were really good, that I was watching and observing. There was so much depth to, you know, the team sport dynamic coaching, you know, females as a young guy, and, and, you know, the techniques and, and the systems of play, were, every single corner that I looked around was something that was so foreign and so new, that it just, it was a pursuit of so much, it's a and, and I just, you know, your it was, it was overflowing, you know, of things. And so I just I loved just every time I thought I there was so much more that I'd had no idea than the things that I did no. And that was intoxicating. For me just that learning process.
Paul Barnett 07:16
Well, you go off on this learning journey, and you work your way through various roles, and you end up getting your first head coaching job at the University of opening in 2001. But that year, Kelly, the team ended the season four and 20 wasn't a great season. But by the time we left in 2007, they of course, went through regular seasons, and three day tournament championship. So it was a, it was a really successful period for you. And I'm, I'm keen to understand what were the first things you did, or some of the early things you did that really set the foundation and drove that result?
Kelly Sheffield 07:52
Yeah, heading into that. So I'd spent about seven years coaching. Between ages 13 and 16 year olds, I did about seven years ago, at then, was that assistant coach for for four years at three different universities around some really, really good coaches before, like you said, I got my first head coaching job. Our first match was, was to was in August, and then a couple of weeks later 911 happened and so that kind of throws a wrench into into things as well.
But, you know, the, the program that that that I walked into, I'm not sure it was a job that too many people wanted. It's, it was a, a job that was just making the transition from division two to division one, very little support. We had five and a half scholarships, just about everybody else in our conference had 12 I had no assisting coaches when we started. And so your which is very much similar to what you're doing as a club coach, you're you're doing everything yourself as a club coach, or a high school coach, you're you are, you're teaching and training every single position. You are, you know, you're not, you're inputting balls, you're, you know, fundraising, you're, you know, if you've got to live program, you're probably doing it yourself. I mean, just everything is and that was kind of what year one was at university Albany was, it was it was everything.
And you know, we had to get some some better talent. There was no doubt about that. And, you know, we got in there and we worked hard and, and quite frankly, most of the most of the players decided they wanted no part of that. I think we had 17 players on the roster that first season and we were down to 314 of them quit after the end of the season. None of them left this Pool, they all stayed there, which tells you how important volleyball was to them. They didn't go somewhere else to play. But, but we were able to bring some some, some people in that were kind of saw things the same way that I did, we got a little bit of success, we went from four and 20 to 16 and 15. In year two and, and the administration started supporting us a little bit, which allowed us to get some momentum. And we started getting a few more scholarships. Over time, we were able to add an assistant and then a second assistant, so you're getting more help around, there became a little bit of trust with the strength coaches, so they were eventually able to, to handle that. You know, the athletic department was growing. So, you know, at nights, I was, you know, the study houses were being done in my office, the first couple years that, you know, eventually you started getting some academic people in the athletic department that were able to oversee that. And so that takes a little bit off your plate. But it was it was everything it was, it was everything our first match, home match, we played in front of 13 fans, you know, and, and our last last match there and the NCAA Tournament was in front of 1300 fans. And so it was, you know, trying to get the, the media, the local media to support and just it was it was everything and but it was it was awesome. You know, when you're starting to, you know, people use you started that first year the players knew that there wasn't a lot of respect for that program around the area and within the athletic department. And a few years later, what four years later, they win the the first conference tournament, and they're the first team in the school history to ever go to the NCAA tournament. So they're just so much pride and you're watching the player just walk around in the day that they got their their rings and being able to show that off to the other athletes and the other sports and it changed. You saw the you saw their grades going up, you know, their team GPAs were going up and I think a lot of that was just, you know, the the responsibility that they felt the pride that they felt and the confidence that just kind of came along with it. It was it was a great time there.
Paul Barnett 12:31
And Kelly I read that when you you're at Wisconsin now when you went there you took a lot of the staff from those times with you. Was that an easy decision? Oh
Kelly Sheffield 12:41
yes and no. We saw I was at I was at Dayton. And what am I systems stayed there a Dayton and took over the program. I had another assistant, her first job, what college job was was with me a date and she was fresh out of college and and a bit but it she'd been there with me for four years. Brittany Dell dine and you could just see her growth. During that time that she was turning into it. It was very obvious she was going to be a great coach. She would just you know really young I'd probably 22 or 23 when she first got there a date and maybe even younger nap and then looked around for another assistant and I used my volunteer back at at Dayton Gary whites. You know, we had a we had a hidden gem there. He was our volunteer for two years. But prior to that he was an engineer. Both their first college jobs both were were with me a Dayton. And we bought both of them there. We brought our Director of Operations just Williams with us. And it was one of the things that I think there was a they all share is there was a curiosity. There was a work ethic, none of us had anything better to do early on. I mean, it was it, you know, it's it was our joy or passion was was was working and in trying to be better at this. And so when you're trying to turn programs around, that certainly certainly helps. And I think everybody it's at their heart is servant leaders, you know, it's not about them. And so I think we're going on year 11 And every one of them are still here. And all of them came with me from Dayton. It's we enjoy being around each other. We have a great deal of fun with each other. We are very very curious, very hungry and driven to learn more and and the roles have have changed and expand And where where growth can continue to happen. So it's, it's, it is a huge deal when you've got people that that you care about, and that you're able to grow with them. And, and it certainly makes things way easier on me now than that you have people that just, they know what to do day to day and month to month.
Paul Barnett 15:25
Well, it's, it's been a fantastic run 10 years of sweet sixteenths. And, of course, some championships along the way. But it's interesting, I wanted to ask you what the run you've had at Wisconsin has taught you about getting teams orientated forward, but not moving forward with this sense of entitlement, not expecting it, but having the humility to drive for it every season.
Kelly Sheffield 15:55
Um the teams, the businesses, the programs that I respect the most are the ones that have consistency over time, right? It's a, you know, the, you can name name brands, whether it's athletic teams, or businesses, and the ones that you're going to name are the ones that have been around for a while. And so, I never wanted to be one of those programs.
Probably one of the things that is just, you know, anytime that we you know, you win your first conference championship, and it just, it's immediately, this cannot be the only time that this happens, you know, and it's get we, you know, and it may be that that's, you know, I know a lot of people have that, that trade, I would probably say mine is just, you know, going back to a club coach, and people are paying for, to, to play, and they've got all these coaches in these big clubs. And here's this guy that never played the game, I never wanted the families, I never wanted the players to sit there and say, I got we're paying for this, and this guy has no idea what he's what he's doing. And I never wanted them to feel that way. And so it was just this.
You learn some keep learning, keep learning, and you accomplish something, just keep going, keep going. And you know, I think, you know, when you talk to somebody that is a you know, I would guess this somebody that goes out and climbs mountains, you know, you know, right after they climb a mountain, they're, they're probably sitting there thinking, Alright, well, man, are we going to climb next. I know, we took our team to Europe this a few weeks ago. And for two weeks, we've got our team and we're traveling around Europe playing some teams seeing the sights and things and and we get about halfway in and I'm talking to our tour guide about what we're what we're gonna do four years from now, you know, which is probably part sickness. But, you know, why can't you just enjoy what you're doing right now? What are you got to worry about? Where you going to think of next. But it's a bite, figuring out what what is next in lining yourself up for what is next. I think that prevents you from just being satisfied. It's the, to me the pursuit is the pursuit is where the fun is where the joy is. And let's, let's try to find bigger and gnarlier things to pursue. And you've got to communicate with everybody, you got to communicate with your staff, you got to communicate with your team, what it is that you're trying to accomplish. And that's really, really big. If you're if you're not a great communicator, and you're just assuming that everybody knows what it is that you're trying to do. I think that's where you get issues.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 19:07
Really, I have this interesting quote from one of your, your players Tenyo heart, she says, in Kelly's mind, to be anything but honest, is to not care enough about that person and their approvement. And it just jumped out at me as I was preparing for the interview and it made me wonder, can you ever be too honest.
Kelly Sheffield 19:32
Think before I'm giving advice to to players or other coaches or something, I think the thing that I'm asking them is, what are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to get to? And I think you have to understand what it is that they're wanting. Before you start giving them advice a little bit I think it's and then you have to be honest with them, right if you're trying if a player Trying to be a National Player of the Year and they're not on that path to get there, then you been? Yeah, it's, it's it's all hands on deck, if you will to, to let them know where where they're falling short on that to anything less than that is, says that, that you don't care about them. Right. If I, I want to take a step back,
I think I think players spend too much time wondering what mood is my coaching? And I think a lot of them go to practice almost every day or every meeting, or what did I do wrong? You call a meeting? What did I do wrong? And, and I, I think I think that gets in the way in, in what we're trying to do and the relationships that we're trying to build. So I think I want there to be a consistency with how I approach things on a daily basis, the expectations don't drop the expectations are, are what they are, and we're going to hold you to that. But there needs to be a consistency with how I approach it every meeting every practice. I think trust is critical. You know, trust the players trust that I'm I, I care about them, that I care deeply about them that care about them more as a human than I do as a volleyball player, what they can bring, you know, in the wind columns. And to get that trust, there's gotta be some vulnerability, you're asking your players to be vulnerable, they have to see that we're vulnerable that we're willing to learn. And I think if you're asking if there's going to be trust, there's there's got to be honesty, every step of the way, they can't ever question that you can question that. That what I am saying is for my own good than it is for their own good, they can't question it.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 22:06
Ellie, you say great teams, and great athletes have an optimism about themselves, even when things get really hard. We all love optimism. But I'm wondering how do you avoid this spilling over so that it becomes cheerleading, and you perhaps lose touch with the reality of the team situation?
Kelly Sheffield 22:26
Yeah. I think comes down to belief, you know, but I think, you know, when you're building blocks of it, I do think there was an optimism for for what you're doing. I I know, our first year, when we got here, Wisconsin, some of our players went to a went to a USA tryout and one of our assistants was with them and came back and said, You know, I really liked him. But almost everything out of their mouth is negative, whether it's weather where there's somebody's wearing, whether it's what's going on in the gym, or how their body feels or something that just this continuous loop. And we got back into the practice, Jim, who was spraying and I said, Hey, is that the end of one practice, I said, you know, we'll be back here tomorrow, we've got 22 hours, and I said, gave everybody a rubber band. I had them put it around the wrist. And I said I know this, this is going to be corny. I said I get it, I understand it. Just hang with me. But the next 22 hours, I want you to to try not to say anything negative at all. And if you do, I want there to be a low reminder that you're just snapping the rubber band and begged them to just play this along with me for 22 hours we'll get back in the gym the next day. And I said how to go and I don't know I had a player that said I'm pretty positive person I didn't there was nothing for me. At a couple others said Man, I found myself stabbing myself a lot. couple others. As I said, I didn't know what to say. It was a really, really hit me because I don't want to be that type of person. And I realized I don't know what to talk about somebody else who's telling a story that they were on Twitter, and they said something about the weather and one of their teammates responded back hashtag snap yourself. And so we just talked about, you know, if we're going to go about things we're going to learning and and try to do things where we're passionate about coming to the gym, you know, going into the locker room that we really need to be aware of our communication style with those around us. [PB4]
We got to at least be aware of it and try to have some optimism a couple of weeks later I were in the gym and I noticed a couple couple people so we're on the rubber bands and I brought the team in I said What what are you still wearing? I'm Wow We liked the message that this tells, you know, it's just a reminder. Probably had a half dozen in there and said, while I was still wearing mine until it broke, I was using it too much. So well that's, you know, that's a problem, isn't it? And so we got a more permanent ones, you know, back then, you know, everybody's got them now or something, but back then it was just, there was a Lance Armstrong LIVESTRONG was about the you know, what you'd see. So we had made of that, and it was just kind of a reminder, you know, how we want to kind of go about the season, you know, optimism, I would say it's more belief, it's not cheerleader, sometimes it can be cheerleading, but it's, but it's belief, I want our players to have what we call a bring it mentality, that no matter if, you know, if you're down, if you're down in a match, if, if you've got a tough grade in a class, you know, it's this, your strength coaches asking you to, to do things that you don't think you're capable of doing. Just when your back is against the wall, have this mentality says Bring it, you know, let's, let's go set the world on fire. You know, that's why I remember as a kid, going out to the, to the driveway with with a basketball hoop and just, you know, you're counting down 54321, and then trying to get a shot up. And if you make it then the next one, you're gonna make it more difficult, or you're practicing at the free throw line and said, Hey, there's no time left and you're down by one, you hit one, you tie you hit and you hit two, you win in playing those little games, and just how, how much fun that was. And I think sometimes, when we get older, we, that becomes stress, and, and worry and panic and, and shying away from those moments. And one of the things we try to we're trying to set up with our culture is to lean in in those moments and find the joy in those moments. And yes, I think there's optimism behind it. And I think there's belief. And every once awhile, there may be some cheerleading, but I don't think that's the biggest part of it.
Paul Barnett 27:22
Haley, I've watched some footage of you during the games. And what struck me was your smile. And I know, we've been talking off air and you said that that was the first time you'd heard it. But it was a very, it was the moment people came off the court. So people subbed out, and you seemed to consciously be smiling at them. But at least that's the way it appeared in the footage. And I wanted to ask you is, is that a conscious act? Is it part of your, your routine, when people rotate when they when they're potentially at a low point or a high point when they're coming off? Or going on?
Kelly Sheffield 28:01
I would say it's probably rare that I'm smiling during matches, probably what some other people would probably say, I mean, there's every once awhile there might be that it's I'm sure everyone smile, there's some enthusiasm for what we're doing. And I would say probably every once in awhile, you know, there's probably frustration that probably crosses my face at times spit. I try to be very, very cognizant of what it is that that I am my body language. That's a you know, what message that I'm getting across, I realized that it's our team and our staff, our fans, people in the building, maybe even our opponents, that there was a and I try to be aware of that. There might be some times I'm trying to let some tension out of, you know, especially if a player is trying to do something in a really, really big moment and just misses, just just misses. It was the right thought process. It was what you would want this person to do in this and it just didn't happen. That moment is a really critical moment, especially a young player. You know, I think about us being at a national championship match and yulia Orzel going for a high hand shot just looking for the hands and just missing this just barely missing the hands and just going along and calling a timeout. Well, she was a freshman and you know, she was a freshman from Poland. So she, you know her and I didn't have a long history and here we are playing in front of, you know, 18,000 fans and a really big moment and not only does she miss but I ended up calling a timeout Right after that, and there has to be, you know, I think right there, the the human nature thing for her is this is to just bang her head up against the wall and just be frustrated and, and think that she's at fault. And I shouldn't even try that, and I shouldn't be doing this, I should be doing something safer. You don't want your players in that moment, and that time, and so there, there might be an opportunity right there to try to let just a little bit of attention out of the room. And, and so that might be an opportunity to try to do that to you know, you know, let her know, life is is okay. And let's, let's reorganize and get right back at it. There's lots of different ways that you can go about that.
Paul Barnett 30:53
Haley, I know you have two daughters. And I know that family is important to you. And I, you know, one of the things I've noticed through interviewing coaches is that they can become quite obsessed. And I think it can be an unhealthy level of obsession that can take over. And I wanted to ask, how do you work with this, to make sure that you do maintain a healthy, healthy balance in your life
Kelly Sheffield 31:27
it's probably not balanced, I'm not sure that it's really in a successful coach or, you know, CEO, or whatever probably has, would call balance, the key has got to be healthy, right? It's a you know, it's, if it was just about volleyball, it would be boring. You know, it's got to be more than that, in part that really, we're, we're learning life lessons. Through sport, we're helping people at a really critical time, you know, grow and mature and get on their own and trying to accomplish big gnarly things to together and it's just, there's so many things to learn. It's, you know, conflict management, how to communicate with people that are different from you, and we spend a ton of time and in that space, and, you know, and helping prepare them whether it's a pro career, whether they're gonna go get a job afterwards how to deal with, with setbacks, and frustrations and injuries and deaths in the family and, and, you know, when you're with them for decades down the road, and in some cases, and so it's stay, our families get to be a part of that, if we choose to have them a part of that. And in our family, we don't have our family and volleyball south, right. It's, it's together, our, our team is over at our house quite a bit. Our staff is over in our house quite a bit. Our players might my daughter is get to know the players very well, they you know, they've, they've babysat them, they've been to their little gymnastics things when they were three, they'd go to this one meets when they're 10. You know, it's and they get to see their idols grow. And we get to go back and we talk about the lessons of what we care about being a great teammate, and we get to talk about working hard of not quitting, of responding to when things happen that are that are favorable to you and unfavorable to you. There's just there are so many lessons, that we're able to teach them that I think it's a I think it's a healthy place, that most of the time we're in[PB5]
Paul Barnett 34:04
really I've heard you talk about the fact that early in your coaching career you quote coach through what my goals were, rather than trying to understand what their goals were added you change was there a process you went through what what drove the change in you
Kelly Sheffield 34:23
allege probably maturity certainly. You know, it's a that I would probably say I you know, you're I had a lot of success around me in the sport of volleyball even when I wasn't necessarily part of that success. And so, you know, our teams and not knowing quite how to help our team by knowing how to help a player wanting to compete. And in. So there probably be some times that I was, you know, it was a motion got into it more than probably what it should be, you know, if it's a, you know, go harder, pursue harder, go and get that you know, and so there's probably early on way more times of raising my voice to try to get them to do what I was wanting that I didn't know how to communicate properly. Maybe also a touch of Olds watching some other types of coaches on TV, of how they came across with people that were much older. And thinking maybe that's how I needed to be to be an elite coach, while also knowing deep down that I've got to teach, and that inner conflict and frustration as I was just just trying to learn as fast as I could to be good for my players. And, and so I'd be coaching through a motion a lot, way more than what I should have to give them to, to, hopefully to go where I was wanting them to go and where they're wanting to go. I'm just doing it the the wrong way. Yeah, you know, it's we're, everybody's learning is Is there going. And fortunately, I had a lot of people that were able to help and quite a few people that were able to sit me down at different times and say, A, they cared enough to say, let me let me help you out with this. Because this may not be the path that you're wanting to be on.
Paul Barnett 36:49
This one final question, then Kelly, if I can, and I'll preface it with a with another great quote I have from you, you say? I want to help our players max out their talent, max out their potential. It's really about them? How do we help them get to their dreams, their goals? So I guess the question is in the distant future, how do you hope the people that you have helped describe your legacy?
Kelly Sheffield 37:24
I don't care how they describe my legacy, that I, I care less about that, I would hope that they that they look back, I hope that that's why the plan, that they are having a really good experience, that they know it's really hard. And sometimes we're asking them to do things that that maybe they don't think they're capable doing that. But they're on this path, and they understand the bigger picture, that it's that there's way more good days and bad days, they're enjoying that process. And then I hope when it's down the road that they're looking back and thought I was, I was doing it for the right reasons. You know, along the way, I don't ever want players that feel like they're being manipulated. In the moment. I don't want them to look back at their career and feel like they were a pawn and whatever it is that I was pursuing. And it has to be about what their dreams and their goals now. Certainly we're going to in the recruiting process, let people this is what we're in pursuit of. And that it's a lot it's way more discussed about what is it that we're going to do day to day. And, and they have a saying with this. I mean, they have a say with how we're, what is in our championship manual. And what it is that our standards are going to be that they have a big say into that, that once they once they say here, this is what it is that we're going to try to do. And this is how we're going to go about it and we're all in agreement, then they can't go outside of that. It's just we're just all on this path of being able to do this. And and I think that hope that brings a lot of people together. [PB6]
We talked about trust early on. And hopefully when they look back, they they're still that strong belief that we were doing the right stuff for the right reasons. We cared for each other and there's all a lot of lessons, lessons learned. It's the and we help these young people grow. That's there's a lot of joy in that. There's a lot of We had an alum that came back the other day. And she had been out for a while and brought her family and they're just so much joy and pride for from her what she did and what she, what she went through and sharing that with with her family and her spouse. And you want to see that joy while they're playing. And you certainly want to see that joy from them years later, when they're when they're bringing their people back. Ellie,
Paul Barnett 40:28
thank you so much for your time today. It's been great hearing a little bit more about your story and learning more about what you're doing at Wisconsin, and I wish you all the best for the season. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you, Carol.