Liam Sheedy edit
Thu, Jan 11, 2024 1:33PM • 52:15
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
work, ireland, players, years, people, team, coach, felt, manage, monster, win, culture, talk, chance, good, game, lads, played, important, dressing room
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, liam sheedy
Paul Barnett 00:00
Liam Sheedy Good evening, and welcome after all these years of chasing you to the great coaches podcast. I've
liam sheedy 00:08
elated to be on pile. Yeah, it's a privilege to be on here, Randy. Yeah, as you said, it's probably long overdue at this stage to be fair to Yeah.
Paul Barnett 00:15
Well, Billy Walsh was the person who I got your name from. And I interviewed Billy almost two years ago. So it's great to finally have you here, Liam. But let's start with something simple. Where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far today?
liam sheedy 00:29
Well, I'm here in Tipperary, I have an office here at home. I currently work with Teneo. But we're actually starting our own business, Blue Lake High Performance partners, some with two of my colleagues from Teneo, Jen Mitchell, and Eugene, Oregon. So we're starting a new business in January had a wonderful two years, which, obviously, we've set up to now, performance and consulting. Really enjoyed my time there. And there's an opportunity, you know, for us to try and create our own identity, we have a location here in the southwest. And yeah, we're excited about what the future holds. Very thankful to be on our team there. We have a great relationship with them. We continue to be close and work as associates when that when the time was right for both of us. But yeah, it's an exciting career journey. And as I said, I'm very lucky I live here in Portugal. It's where my heart is where I've always been living here. And it's a special village that we have here in Portugal. And certainly I'm looking at, you know, my office in can lose about 20 minutes away. So it's only over the road. And I have my own office here in the house as well. Yeah. So lots going on and developed Christmas, Lee,
Paul Barnett 01:27
and you've had firsthand experience with some great coaches. There's people like Amon O'Shea, Billy Walsh from boxing and of course, Michael Ryan. So just to begin, could I ask you, what is it you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
liam sheedy 01:44
Yeah, great question, Paul, I guess I was lucky between my involvement with with Tipperary and all of the teams that I've been involved with, throughout my term tip, and also getting a chance to sit on the High Performance board. For sport Ireland, that was a big opportunity for me to get to see other sports and see other coaches and action. So as you said, to get to rub shoulders with the likes of Mr. Shea and Billy watch, and others, this is certainly something that I feel very privileged to have been a part of. And yeah, to me, I think, you know, ultimately, they really focus on the person more so than the player, I think that's one of their biggest strengths. And they're able to get inside and really understand, you know, as I said, if you only get to know the player, when you're when you've got him in your environment, you're probably only talking about 10 to 15 hours a week, whereas those could be a lot going on in 268 a week for people, especially people that are high performance athletes and understanding what makes them tick, and really getting inside them and getting inside their heads and getting underneath their skin. And you know, as I suppose to think about the coach of theirs, they're able to, even in their language and how they speak to players and how they invest in players. And they, you know, they have a big focus on one to one. And, you know, I mean, if I was to observe the relationship today, and I'll share worktop with Larry Corbett's, in my time when I was manager, and I've watched the relationship that he built up over over three stents that he built up a Chairman's Carolyn, I was able to manage that, like him. And was he was a genius, and I think the likes of him and and Billy, I think they're, they're really strong students of the game.
So they're all the time looking to know where is the game going next? And how can they be there before anybody else sort of, like create creativity and innovation, I think is a big part of how they operate and how they, how they structure themselves, they're always looking to see where they can find that extra edge or that extra extra distance, but and there is a requirement from the players to buy in and to go with them. And that's an important part of it. Like it, you know, I always say coaching, it's a two way thing. [PB1]
You know, I often see some of the greatest athletes out there, and they talk about being coachable. And that's a really important part of this, you've got to, you've got to sort of, you know, throw your full self into it, and you know, it that might cause you to be vulnerable at times, but that's okay. And as I said, you know, when I see some of the outcomes that have been generated, but there's not really outcome focused pilots very much around, what's the process? And we are, how do we get to the help, they have a very strong way as a player in terms of trying to get up those steps, but certainly, to how in the process is a big part of what the coaches do. And again, Amon would be you know, Amon was the genius, he was the magic and I suppose daytime in the background, it probably suited we were, we often talk to ourselves about being two sides of the same coin. So you know, and I didn't become an actor and say, Okay, well, you know, I love the magic. But equally, you know, you got to put the overalls on, and you got to work really, really hard. So you know, that that importance of what you're doing when you don't have the board was a big part of my philosophy and my my coaching, I suppose, model. As I said, it worked really, really well. But just to see what their creators with with their athletes and our players over over many years, and their consistency of performance, you know, must be very pleasing for them. It certainly was incredible for me to observe and to see those relationships building over time, where literally Claire's would go anywhere do anything for the coach.
Paul Barnett 04:54
Well, let's go back to your playing days you finished in 99 had a long career as a player out. And you transitioned into coaching very quickly, it was 2001. And you were the intermediate manager initially, but then in that first year, you win the monster championship and in the second year, you lose the all Ireland final, but you to go away, which is, of course, nothing to be too, too upset about given how strong that team was during that period. But Liam, at what point during your playing career, did you know that you wanted to transition into coaching?
liam sheedy 05:27
Yeah, well, you know, it's funny, I guess, when you're in a small Parish, and and we have a small community of about 800 people here. So as soon as you started to come of age are saying, Okay, what other job can you do on the job, and obviously, because I had got, I mean, I got great exposure in my playing days, to some wonderful managers and some wonderful coaches. And also, I would say, the environment that I was in here in Portugal very much molded me into the person I was, I had some like my three older brothers, Jimmy, unfortunately was no longer waiters and John and Mike they were they were all a bit older than me. So they had a big influence on me because when I was young, I was going watching them play dad died very young. So you know, really hurting was was a life a way of life and our house. Or motor always said, if there was if you were if you had work to do or via that chain to go to you had to go training because you get more out of the sport and how he horror he was. But you know, people like John Madden, Michael Madden, he is so now they run the gym and leadership program here. True to Gary Claire's Association, Jim had a massive impact on my career, he probably brought me up through the ranks and invested heavily in me. And there's no doubt about it that played that paid having had some dividends. And I will also say that, you know, my mother, and Jim and all of those people that I was rubbing off here in the parish, they all had the power, the power of giving and giving was a big part of their life, giving of their time giving off their energy giving out their expertise, you know, on giving you a dressing down if you needed to dress them down. I mean, they didn't shy back from it, it was it was very open, it was very honest. But it was very impactful.
So I always felt that people had given a huge amount to me as a player when I was playing. And I always said that if I got the opportunity to give something back, that's something that would certainly entice me, as I said, My mother always told me that, you know, a day is not a perfect day unless you can give to somebody that might be never able to repay it. So gifting is a big part of it. And, you know, to get a chance to work with with declarants in your own club, as I said, like what are your managing your rates here in your own village or whether you're managing tip, it's a privilege and you're gonna have either a positive or negative impact on everybody that comes into your environment and my goal all the time. While it doesn't always work out my goal, my outset, at the outset all the time is how can I make this pair better? How can I create an environment where this player gets to flourish?[PB2] [PB3]
So I love that I was doing some coaching with divisional teams when I was still with him. And we had we had success there were almost two championships and then quite quickly after retiring I managed Ballena which is the club just in the road for me we won the league title in 2000 in in intermediate so that was my first step into the arena and all of a sudden that it happened quite quickly and I moved on as I said I got I got promoted into the to the temporary job or the intermediates and as you know we got we had the monster success and we came up short they are the final after replay gets really good Galway team. But you know, as you said unfortunately, in sports, there's going to be a lot of lows and it's about your ability I think to deal with those. But I was probably catapulted quite quickly then into the into the senior setup. I was interviewed for the senior job in 2002. Obviously, Nicky had had finished up and Michael Doyle ended up getting the getting the job and I was asked to go in as a selector and they asked me to know what I would I do the selector on the senior team and manage the under 21 team and like I was already I was working in Bank of Ireland at a very very busy job was only after starting in the bank in 2002 after 10 years and Procter and Gamble so I said no I definitely won't be able to do to two but I was I was I was anxious to do the senior job and played a role even though I had worked with some of those players as as a player myself but I I felt I would be able to carry enough weight in the dressing room and I knew what it was about. And I felt it was I was really good. Looking back and might have been a bit soon free polo but I got a chance we went in last League Final to a an absolutely cracker of League final in 2000 and treat Kilkenny and in we were beaten in Monster and we ended up getting back into the Ireland semi final through the back door with a wonderful win against Galway open Galway by a pint and we found ourselves back into London semi final and with 50 minutes gone, we will one pint up against that against golf are against Kilkenny and we ended up getting a bad beating so they gotta go. It probably went in it looked like it was going to net about three times and eventually went into four time and I think that was a really killer blow to the group and we faded and they beat us comprehensively.
And, you know, amazingly I found myself tossed and out of a job. We were surplus to requirements and we relieved your duties in the winter of 2003 with a very tough time because we only had the one year at But as I said, you know, sometimes the focus on the setback would be focused on the bounce back. And it probably was one of the biggest learnings they always had in life is that, you know, when motivator, obviously, listen, you got to dust yourself down and you got to go again. And probably that was the moment where I really had to dig deep into my resilience and into my reserve and say, Okay, what do you want the future hold? Is that it now? Or is there or is there a comeback in you? And thankfully, as I said, we did manage to come back and the rest of the shares history,[PB4] [PB5]
Paul Barnett 10:25
you did come back, because in 2005, you come back to tip, the mighty team coach more successful those. There's that oil all Ireland when your second year now? My stats are right, it's tips first since 1996. So that must have felt like a pretty good achievement, given the roller coaster you'd been on.
liam sheedy 10:47
Yeah, it was a really good achievement. And again, you know, it was quite surprising, actually, in early 2005, Bonnie Shannon, who was selector on the minor team, when I was minor in 1987, which I believe he had been propelled into the he was the chairman of the county board. And he popped into Bank of Ireland and Nina and he said, Leaney said, the intermediate job is going again, he said, Would you consider going back in because obviously I left into each job step up to the, to the senior. And I talked about and I went back and said, I don't only listen, I said, I've done that. I said, you know, I've been there already. I but I said I'll tell you what I said if the main role was available, I'd certainly be up for having a coat off. And I said, I think I could do something with somebody younger talent coming through, because it was still very tapped into the development squads within the county. So fairness, Donnie, he took a chance on me and He gave me the job. I put a great team around me a good group of lads. And we thought we had a real chance in the first year. But we probably were overcooked, there's an awful lot going on under age I really got an understanding of of Lord and managing lords. Amazingly, we were knocked out in the monster semi final in 2005. And we want the alert in 2006. And I don't less training sessions in 2006 than it did in the in the in the build up to the monster semi final. So these guys when you were a minor at that stage, you were playing on your top senior team, your school's teams, you had an awful lot going on. So we really started to understand what the Lord was trying to relay Well, we lost a great car team, the monster final. And as I said, thankfully, there was a backdoor already for the backdoor here not the backdoor. And just to explain to your listeners, that's where you get a second chance or if you lose your provincial final, you still get a chance to go back into the Ireland series and we had a wonderful win against Kilkenny, India will be carried on in the quarterfinals will be Kilkenny in the American semifinals the first time in Turkey years to be taken yet mind whatever. So that was a big, big moment for us. And obviously we joke heading chasing this foreigner on in dealer final for mono medals and we managed to turn them over under a young Podrick Mara went out and played fullback and I had moved Brendan Meyer, who turned out to be one of the stalwarts back in cornerback and microcarrier was in the other corner and they just we hold up brainstorm we had really good display of holding on that day. And we were we were well a better team and I suppose from that really gave her the team that created the platform for for the for the senior teams that have been met up in Tipperary over the last 15 years. They've been really the you know, some of the best players we've ever produced come through that minority of 2006. And yeah, I was I was just looking and I guess, you know, when you went on vinyl, I learned this it was played before the senior game. So there's 80,000 people there, there's a there's a big deal, it's gonna probably get me a shop window as well for for myself and what I'm what I could become. And as I said, thankfully, it provided me an opportunity to get it to get into you again for the for the senior job. And it came up in 2008.
Paul Barnett 13:41
Just before we get to that senior role in 2008, people listening might not know that in Ireland in the GAA, it's an amateur so you don't get paid. So a lot of coaches and players still work. And of course, you've had some pretty senior positions. In fact, I was reading an article, after a speech you'd given about your leadership style as a coach and in business being very much the same, as you say, and here's the quote, it's about lighting a fire inside people and inspiring a team based culture. You also talked about the fact that you're a Procter and Gamble, another great blue chip company, but but Liam, what have you figured out over the the arc of your career? What have you figured out about the components of a team based culture that are so important?
liam sheedy 14:29
Yeah, well, I think back to the first part of your question around lighting the fire inside people, you know, I think that's important. You know, if you're consistently lighting the fire underneath them, they get very sick here reasonably quickly. So you got to see what makes them tick. And I put a huge amount of emphasis on the one to one engagement. You know, the insights that I get from one to ones with my players for myself, my management team sit across, we've all I always find like in leadership, you ask great questions, you get great answers, and I will put a lot of time and not energy into what's the right question. And I suppose I'm very clear in terms of what the outcome I'm looking for. I want to play a walking out the door 2025 minutes later and once in leadership and management teams still believe in me, I have charity know exactly where I stand. And what's where I stand, where it's in terms of my physical preparation, in terms of my work ethic in terms of my mental preparation, and in terms of my overall skill level, so that they're clear that they have a plan to go after and what they're going to focus on individually. And it just gives I love that one to one interaction. As I said, it's something I use, it's one of the most powerful tools, I think it's, it's asking great questions really being prepared for your one to one, because if you like to fire inside everyone, and everybody's bringing their best to the training pitch, oh, my god, like environment that creates lock, you know, to me, culture is everything, you know, and oh, no, there's all the arguments about culture eats strategy for breakfast. But to me, like, if you don't have the culture, right, you have no chance of getting to be in a peak performance team. And you simply won't be able to sustain it on a consistent level. You might get peaks and troughs, but it only gets to be really that high performance team and and have it sustainable over time. I think you absolutely have to go after culture. [PB6] [PB7]
And culture, as I said, you know, probably even more important nowadays. I mean, you know, it nearly formed itself over time in 2008. When I went back in I suppose, like, when the lads walked into the dressing room, at that stage, you know, this, I had all our jerseys hanging up their names around the back of it, their socks, were there, their tugs, were there. So it was like, I'm one of the lads who just like walking into Real Madrid. And I said, yeah, no, that's exactly what I want you to be thinking because I want you to look in this environment in like, with what's what's it obviously, or how could I be anything other than in high performance mode, the minute I set foot in the dressing room, I will always be in there. As I said, we tend to have seven, I would be in the direction, I would have six. So there was no chance of someone walking in the door with a 20 past seven, because standards is a big part of your culture. And it's up to me as a leader to set the bar and raise the bar and standards.
But again, in 2018, when I went back in, then, you know, I can still remember that morning in the dressing room, I said, we're going to build a culture, this is our spiritual home here in simple stadium. We're going to build a culture, but I said it's going to be built from the bottom up. So I broke them into two groups, I had all their flip chart paper, and they all came back. But I said if you were to look at the values that's going to define the culture of this group, what are they? So they came up with 15, and totally went from trust to sensible enjoyment to work less standards to, you know, how we communicate and the positivity within the group. So we had all of that mapped out. And, and again, they said, Well, we're going to break into groups, and they took each word. So they said, What does actually break down the word Trust? And what does it mean for this group. So we left we had a lovely documents that had key 15 values in the front, and the breakdown of each of those words in pages two, three, and four, that would just give it to each of them an asset and decided or a gear back. So that was the culture we created for 2019. And there's no question about it. They live that culture poor. And as a result, they got to some extremely high levels of performance. [PB8]
And you know, in the championship that is in Monster, you've got to play four games in quick succession or six weeks, then you've got to get ready for Monster final. And then you're NTDLL in series. So out of the eight games, we won seven, we had one day where it didn't go so well. But I have no doubt having that culture and that bed. And foundation solid, really allows you because one of the lads, I can still remember him in the corner said, lads, when you're in this temporary dressing room, you wear this jersey 24/7. So make sure no matter where you are your jerseys on each other. So there's a level of, of, you know, respect that you've always got to bring out there in society, because you're representing the brand everywhere you go, not just on a Tuesday and Friday night when you come in here training.
So I think having that culture and being able to build it from the bottom up and lead it from the top down, where everybody feels accountable to it, it just creates for a wonderful environment. I'm I'm really, really big on environment. I think if you create the environment, the right environment, and you create conditions to allow people flourish, they will flourish. And if they flourish to get the best out of themselves. And certainly it's much easier for me as a manager to live with it with an outcome that isn't the welcome I wanted. If I know that well is I've done everything I wanted to do. I've created a culture we created right environment, for one reason or another. It didn't it didn't happen for us on the day. But as I said, There's been loads of examples where that setback actually has led us to go and do some wonderful things sharply down the road, but it has to be all built on. On a team based culture Together Everyone Achieves more, is something I use a lot because, you know, there's things that I have done in life with people that I could only dream of, I'd never be able to do them on my own. So I really value the input and insights of bringing everybody on board getting people connected to a common goal and just committing to going there and doing all the checks.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 19:45
Talked about expectations a lot in that answer. Lehman back in oh seven there's something that you said that caught my attention. So seven minutes just set the scene oh seven turns around your unexpectedly appointed head coach of the senior team for The 2008 season, it's a great year, you win the National League and the monster championship, beating cork along the way for the first time since 1923. So it's great to great result. But you lose in the semi final of the all Ireland. And after the match, he said, There was a lot of hurt in our dressing room this time last year 17. August was anything but a nice day and it heard is, had heard a lot of us. And what fascinated with me was you had all this success, it would have been very easy for you to say, Oh, well, two out of three is not bad. We missed the third one. But but that's not what you said. You actually said there's a lot of hurt it almost. It's like you're almost saying almost wasn't good enough on this instance. And I imagine that was a very deliberate move on your part. And I'm wondering what advice you have for others on holding the line around those expectations when maybe they've just fallen short. And the temptation is to say, Well, we tried our best, we'll get them next time.
liam sheedy 20:59
Yeah, I think, you know, it was a real soccer blow for us. On the day, as you said August 17. You know, the first few days and we we all know this, the one that sits right at the front of your head is where it doesn't go so well enforced gesture to waiver program programmed. But for me, I mean, it really was, like we felt with every with every box ticked. You know, we hadn't lost the game all year, we played the monster League, we won that competition, we played the nationally we won a competition and we won monster, we went unbeaten in Monster, we beaten card for the first time in 83 years. So we had, we'd achieved a lot, but I suppose the goal for the group and the ambition we'd set out was that we wanted to get into the, into the final. And that was the goal we had set out now obviously Washford ended up being suddenly been soundly beaten by Kenny in in the final bite by a very, very large score. But I must say after the game, you know, the build up like it's really difficult as a player or as a coach or somebody that's involved in it. Where the build up for the island final at that time was three weeks. And it's all going on around you and you're there and your head is spinning saying what went wrong. So I actually left the all Ireland tickets course. I went to the Windsor county board I said you know what I said these lads have given me everything they've done. They've done the don't they won the last league they won the monster championship. You know, I think could we get them away in December? Can we take them away for a few days summer?
So we went we went to lanzar island we got it we got away as a group as well at the end of that year. But between then and the break up, we got we we sat down and we and we talked about I said okay, sort of physically we felt with all the boxes ticked. skillfully, we were in unbelievable shape him and had an absolutely homerun metal holding. But you know, so I said I have to try and understand what went wrong. So I met some of the players and they completed one of the ones where you know, thinking about like, we hadn't won in ballparks since 2002. And decisional. Here, we were back in ballpark. And mainly that core pack blocker came to the fore even though we'd all worked on so I said okay, so from the shoulders up, we were having doubts. Yes, definitely. Because we went back into that stadium. So I said, Okay, well. And that's when obviously I said okay, we've got to look at maybe bringing somebody into our setup, that can give us a little bit more when it comes to the mindset side of things. I didn't want to psychologist, there was no router heads, I'd certainly wanted somebody that would tap into the importance of being being free and at one with yourself and not carrying any baggage into a stadium like that in Croke Park ever again. So I had a cup of tea, which were carried encouraged. Caroline was the performance coach with Tyrone footballers who are who are wandering all around. And she was so I asked her to do some one to ones with some of my players. And I asked her to do a one to one with Him. And so I said based on the feedback that they gave me, I didn't make mind up as to whether we might consider having having somebody have a new have a new involved. So she did on ones, they went really well. And we brought in Caroline because I felt there was a gap in my setup, where I wasn't covering off enough from the shoulders up. And now we had somebody in the group who would have the one to ones with the player that was simply focusing on the player. Sometimes when you're the head coach in a in an organization like that the last person they'll tell is you because you pick the team and you get to decide who starts and it doesn't stop. So it was a it was an important and obviously then you know we did I have a great I have a grace I suppose side of me that says when we do have a setback, how can I use that setback to fuel future performances, and there's no doubt about it. [PB10]
The loss in 20 in 2008 was a huge driver to our performance yards and we find that 2009 You know, we got we got away and we went to camp. We had spoken openly about how we felt that day we'd spoken openly about you know we had one that was challenging me against those nine so we did back to back and we went away to Wales for a day, and we sat in a meeting room and said, Okay, what what is the 90%? We want to bank from the monster championship and where are we going to find the next 10%. And as I said, we had an exceptional performance once we settled in Croke Park, and I suppose then, pro power came from actually, we transformed core power from being somewhere where you had a fear of going into get to where there's actually nowhere else we wanted to be. And we always seen that as being our Coliseum and get like, you know, in hoarding terms, it doesn't get any better than walking out into crawl Park in full stadium 80,000 people in order to find, and we were lucky that we had a setup that fully embraced that, as a playing group, as a management group as a backroom team, and we loved driving in that person ready to stand, we'd have our song lined up that we played on in under the standard, we'd get out and hop out of the Boston and take off. And as I said, you know, even though we lost the alarm in 2009, you know, we were up and down later on in the game, and we left everything out during that pitch. So we felt we really performed a high level, but unfortunately, just came up short. But I have no doubt the heart of 2009 or 2008, played a big part in the performance of 2009. And we knew coming out at stadium that day that we were we were getting tossed, you know, we weren't taking on that Kenny had no done foreign row. Everybody was saying, Look, you know, the quest, the only question is who's going to? Who are they going to beat in the final next year. But we knew leaving that day that we got so close that if we could get ourselves back in there again, we'd have a really good chance. And
Paul Barnett 26:30
you did in 2010, you went one better, and you want it. But I don't want to ask you about that. What I want to ask you about is the criticism because you got a lot of criticism during that period. And I'm, I'm, of course, something happens next, which we'll talk about in a minute. But what how did you deal with that criticism? What did you learn through that process that has stayed with you as you've gone on?
liam sheedy 27:01
Yeah, look, I suppose you know, there's everybody has a point of view porn. And you know, I think you got to understand and accept that everybody has a point of view. And I never really, you know, I'd never really be concerned around around criticism, you know, some people who should know better might have their point of view. And some people who don't know any better will always have a point of view. But if you let that be your, if that's going to dictate your program, or dictate your mindset, or impact on you in any way, when you're given up energy, I mean, I felt within my setup, there was a huge amount that I had full control over. And I had no real control over what the external voice was saying. But we managed to block out tonight's as a circle. And actually, we probably use that as fuel. So, you know, my dressing room wall would be fairly painted with some of the some of the commentary that would have been written about us. And the last thing I'd say before we go on the page. Okay, guys, now's the time is what's on that wall? Right? Are we right? Unless I'm fairly certain that we are right, and we're going to show today where we're right. So let's go out there and do what we're able to do. So I was all the time craving for one percenters that could give us a little bit of an edge. And I felt that the external voice was was outside was of a very negative tone. But when we brought it in, we turned it into a positive because we were of the view that they don't know us, they don't know what this group is capable of. [PB11]
But we do. And now every time we go on that page, we get a chance and look, you know, you would have to say that like, poor performance in Cork in May, wasn't good enough. You know, we were beaten, we were soundly beaten by 10 points. And thankfully, at that time, the structure of the championship meant we had five weeks to get to recover. I can still remember horse and jockey on the Tuesday night where I went in for the debrief meeting, and we sat down. And I know coming out there, with the honesty that we got from the room, that standard slipped, we taken away off the ball, there were probably a group who had got so close to last year, previous year, they wanted to land above and crawl Park and take on Kenny again in Ireland final, but it doesn't work like that. You got to take it harder by order. So we probably got a bit of a bit ahead of ourselves. Because we had played a challenge match against Dublin, three weeks previous and we oh my god, we were unbelievable. So that was a real sobering moment. 315 14 pints down in Donna Park, we've caught beaters, as I said reasonably, but I can remember, I think I can still remember going into my dressing room after the match. And everybody's down. Everybody's looking and I said there's I said in order to approximately in 90 days time somebody is going to be walking up the steps in the hog and stand picking up that title. I said that's going to be us. But then telling you here now I said we are going to win. So I I'm a big believer in planning for every eventuality and I do my homework prior to going down and I'd said if it wasn't workout, I had enough data from the Alliance semifinal 2009 to performance in the in the 2009 final our performance drove the monster championship in a way I knew what the group was capable of and I knew that we just needed to get back there and as I said that focused as we we did our jockey we had to debrief standards had dropped there was it was raw it was open it was there was loads of vulnerability, but we walked out that doors and okay now this is it so we're nothing else matters is always going to get in the way of was bringing up promises to the patient slowly but surely began momentum with a fantastic win against Galway by one pint in DLR quarterfinal. When we look at it very two points down in time just open, we recovered and want to buy a pint, then when Madonna we beat Watford into into semi final again, instead of that wonderful, wonderful game to take on the way to take any horrible horrible for the five in a row. So yeah, that was that was a special there was
Paul Barnett 30:47
a special day deed. And it was also the last day for a while because you stepped back after that. And 2011 to 2018 you juggle corporate life and family life, you do some coaching at junior level as well and some provincial stuff, but it must have been a difficult period. And I know that you've your family are a little bit older now. But at the time, it would have been a bit it would have been a hard balance. And I'm I'm wondering what advice you'd give to others now other leaders when it comes to trying to find this type of balance?
liam sheedy 31:16
Yeah, well, you know, I think, like I suppose I had given three years, it's a big commitment. And I was working in Monster in 2008 2009. But I was promoted to the head of sales capability in May 2010, which meant I was now based in Dublin. So that meant that you know, there were there were long days it was coming down, you know, you come down the road from Dublin, you get down to tourists, I'd have to leave Dublin for to get down for half, six, I finished training and I'd be back into care probably leave tourists about 11 11:11pm Back in Dublin for about one one torti into bed and the clocks off at 630. And you're open it could be 530 validate the Belfast following morning. So even when we were in Carrollton house Sunday, on the Friday, I had to do a sales capability launch in Belfast that morning. So I Shut Up the road ahead of the half day and was back down when the lads were just finishing their breakfast. So there was a bit of juggling going on. But I think energy is energy is one of them. I always talk about energy being my currency, I have a lot of energy. I am a big believer in 168 or a week. So like time isn't really a constraint, you know, forget five or six hours and pillar there's loads for me. But again, I place a big emphasis on my energy now why Sure. And equally so when I when I when I go into toilets on a Tuesday night at half 6am for training, I'd be skipping in I'd be wasting I'd be singing the tune and in order okay here is no we better we better be ready. There's no pain showing up half have connected here. And also I you know something I do. And obviously you know we run a lot of research programs here in my in my day job. But I talk a lot about the importance of making two or three hours a week for yourself. So you'll find me and Nina they're in the gym, I went to do a gym and swim, I'll do a hit session you're at home at the office and have it done in 3540 minutes, I'll go for a walk with the girls when we walk around town and talk about life and talk about everything and have a bit of a laugh and crack. So I know that the importance of that if I don't see what to perform, I ain't going to be able to perform. So energy is my currency I place big value on on making sure I care about those two to three hours myself. But you know, I love what I do. So like the reason that I always have the view that Tipperary never felt like a chore to me, Paul working in Procter and Gamble and Bank of Ireland or Teneo. Because I love what I do, and I'm doing what I love. And I think you can get yourself to a place where you're loving what you do, and you're doing what you love, doesn't really feel like a job. It just feels like something that you're you just you just have one wish, and you just go with it and you love it. And I love nothing better. That could often have been tough days and in the bank, where you might be stuck in talks or leaves or things, there was a problem somewhere. But you know, between the drive from Cork up to Taurus, I catch that and fired on my head and said that that can come into the store with me and I was I was good to be able to departmentalized things. So I parked out there now there's no point in being inside and addressing the materials. And then we go in, and you never come out the toilet and about farm because when you see lads going in and the level, like, again, for your listeners, like these are guys that are amateurs, they all have day jobs or have a day job, you know, we're just doing it really for the love of the jersey, the love of the county the love of the game. It's a fabulous game. And as I say that I was I was privileged to get the chance to manage the intermediates to minors and get to sensor to seniors.
And as I said to put up but I think juggling it is much easier if you're if you're really working hard on how you how you show up and the energy levels that you bring. You give time to it and you don't take it for granted. And then you love what you do. Because I think if you have all those attributes, it now becomes less about the job or the chore and more about the enjoyment and the fun and enjoyment and fun is a big thing. It's very hard to laugh and be in bed for over the same time. It's impossible, right? So Amen. Big big. I'm a big believer that you know you got to do, you got to go through life with a smile on your face and love it and enjoy every minute of it. And that's how I approach it. And as I said, you know, sometimes people look back on that journey from 2008 to 2010. And it's a wonderful journey, but it's not, it's not about the destination, or the day you get to the top, it's actually the journey, like the camps that we went on. Like, we used to spend five days in Spain in our own in our own area where we were like, as if we were Real Madrid, you know, that was the setup, the structure, we train in the morning, which do a gym session, the afternoon, we have another pitch pitch session, and I knew we'd have team meetings. But we got to spend days together, which was just, you felt like you were in a high performance environment. And we loved every minute of it. So you know, the times and Karen house where you go preparing for big games, to training sessions, where it's lashing rain, and you're under bags, and it's but there's just no going back from it. All those things are great memories to have. And you know, even that, you know, every November now the team of 20. So that group from 2008 to 2010. Once a year, in November we meet because the culture we created memories that will last a lifetime and to get a chance to play if you're was a golf and meet up and talk about the the old times and the fun that we had the journey that we had there really special. And as I said, that's that just was the part of the culture that we created at the time. Because I think the biggest thing about culture is if you get it, right, you're talking about your time spent there, because you'll have wonderful memories that you can look back on. And thankfully, we get a chance to acknowledge that every November. Well,
Paul Barnett 36:32
we come back, it's not over. Because you you come back to coach in 2019. And it all happens again, there's another all Ireland victory. It's his second as the coach. But what was different this time? Liam?
liam sheedy 36:45
Yeah, well, you know, I, I had, I had eight or nine years experience of leading teams, I had been appointed to the head of sales and revenue and Bank of Ireland when we were losing a million today, including Saturdays and Sundays. So that would certainly test your your leadership style, you know, we had a big body of work to turn that around. Obviously, then I had, I had since then, in 2016, I made the move back down to my own region here in Munster. So I became the provincial director of the month region. So that had a remit of, you know, to 72 branches across the Bank of Ireland network in Munster, there was a business banking team, and it was about 700 people. So that was a, that was a great opportunity to work with people, I had to completely transform how we how we operated, you know, really went after the culture within the back. So a lot of what I was doing was very complimentary.
I will say to people, Paul, I don't have I don't have a different set of tools for working in the corporate world or working in sport mode, I have to use the same tools because to me, everything I've done in life is our own people. And how do we get people to really be the best version of themselves and take, and that if they're not being the best version themselves, that you're least you do everything possible to try and turn them around. Because I don't think there's any better trade in life as a leader than getting somebody who maybe is operating either three or four, and catching them turning them hitting the light switch on and getting them up to a seven or an ace where they're not performing. Because the motor always said to me, Liam Sheedy said, there's nobody going into rock that would go double going in purpose, to do to do a bad job. And that's something that always stuck with me, our job as leaders is to try and light that fire inside them and connect them to some bigger purpose as to why they might do it a little bit differently, so that they're adding value, because we'd all like to make a difference in life. And my purpose in life is to make a difference with people. So that's the big thing for me. [PB12]
So I felt I was much better equipped to handle challenges around people and the environment. Now, I was also you know, there's no criticism like I was, I won't say bulletproof but I was very, very strong in my own beliefs. I didn't feel I had anything it proves, even though I felt I had a lot more to accomplish if you get me, I said to proving had been done in my previous tent. A lot of people that are passionate about it about the game, come back and ask me to say look at lean, you know, would you give it a go? The guy Michael, who I would want the alert in 16 I asked him for his advice. And he said leave me said you know, and this was a big moment for me so lean go back in there he says, there's another one enemy says and you will get you bring it you bring it home. So it was a big moment was myself and Mike were very close friends and have been for a number of years we played together, he was a selector with me and he had done to manage to to an island. So getting that level of backing was important. And then some of the players that I had since 2006, you know, they came on the phone and they said Come on, you know, and I felt I owed him something, Paul because they had been with me you know, probably 14 years previously we started the journeys and they were only kids and here they were they said they wanted to try and grab another another one before before you know as they will get not in their in their careers. So when I wake up, went to America and listen you know I'm very lucky for marriage and Ashley married my wife and Ashley and Gemma to two girls like I think they were definitely had brighter smiles on their face when they said it was going back because you know, Sunday with matches a family there for us. And you know, the waiting about you know, no matter what you lose when you when you know your family will never judge you or you will always get that warm embrace after the game. So I say look, your boards will give it a go. But it's great to get the one race then like if you take the all Ireland semi final in 2019 when we came back from the dead, to win it and the other and finally to be able to go over and catch the girls and lift them over the fence and just give them a warm hug after the game. Is there special moments in you know, again, it's back. It's back to memories. But, you know, I felt I could make a difference. I felt I had something to offer. And obviously I managed to persuade him and O'Shea to come back on board. So I set an had Dara and Tommy. The two wonderful coaches. Dara Dara was on my panel in 2010. Tommy was captain in 1999. On Kelly came in and done some work with us. Darren Leeson was doing some goalkeeping coach later on the year. So I got a really good team of people around around the great backroom team. And yeah, we as I said, you know, a lot of people felt it was a risk, I didn't feel I don't approve, I was just going back in and I felt I could offer something. So I said, if you're gonna offer something, well, then why wouldn't you
Paul Barnett 41:09
leave, volunteering, and participating in the community? So it's a big theme in your life? It's an ongoing theme in your life. But could you share a story of how someone else has helped you particularly in a leadership role when things have been difficult?
liam sheedy 41:27
Yeah, look, look, I know, I, I probably always have a close circle of, of people that I would know would have my back and would always be in my corner, irrespective of the outcome. And I think being able to have that sounding board, I think is very, very important. So if you take like, you know, Declan Coyle would have helped me, you know, what, if he again, he's somebody that, you know, he wrote a book, wonderful book called Green platform, he is, he's got massive life experiences. Declan is somebody that I would have confided in, in my early days as manager. Originally, when I got the job, I went to speak to Jack O'Connor, he was managing to carry footballers. And he had $1. And, and I went and met him. And I asked him for 15 minutes in Caribbean, which is four hours away, and I managed to get three hours out of him. So he gave me a great stat in terms of what I wanted to go after I felt coming out of carry that data and I got something that could get me up and running. But one of the people that was that he was using was getting hired. So I there actually was a person that was a friend of mine, but was also a friend addict. And so we connected and that's what he'd been very good to me. And you know, the thing about acne is, you could bring him on the way out the toilets. And I could be driving hold on for two minutes. And we'd have talked through it. And it allowed us to get to a to a great outcome. So likewise, I suppose to people that have really had an impact first time around like Caroline on the mindset side, because being able to talk to somebody, just want to warn about what's going on, and being able to be open and honest about where you're at, like Carolyn Korede, had a really big impact on me across across the 2009 2010 season. And then last time around. I'm sure when you were talking to Billy Wilder, no doubt you mentioned Gary Keegan. And the impact that Gary Keegan had with Gary was the head of the Institute of Sport and was heading up the high performance unit on the Olympic side. So I got it, I got Gary on board as the performance coach in 2019. We've become close friends since my involvement with sport onboard in 2012. And he came on board and worked with me. And again, Gary has been exceptional for me both as a sounding board on the corporate side, as well as on the personal side as well as on the sporting side.
So, you know, I think everybody needs to have that, that circle where you know, when the going gets tough, or when there's stuff that you need to work through, to be able to have that sounding board or that person of trust in your corner where you can say, Listen, this is the this is the scenario. And being able to use that, that bounce that bounce off them, I think is hugely important. You know, like, the harder you get up in the leadership ladder ball, the more difficult it is to get honest feedback. Because everybody is trying to sugarcoat it for exactly what you need is you needed open and honest and you needed genuine and been able to create an environment where you can you can have the conversation is really important. [PB13]
And likewise, like myself, and even have we soldier together now, like for so many years, we've become very close friends. Again, there's nothing that I couldn't say to him and machine that he wouldn't give me a nugget or a view on.
So I think it's really important, especially in leadership role that you have somebody that you can confide in, go to and be able to bounce things off, because life's not a straight line. leadership's not a straight line, the boss comes off the road, but the better ones and the better leaders, they're able to engage with someone that helps them to get the right frame of mind didn't engage with the overall group. Then they start putting actions in place because you've got to do something different. And then you get back in behind the wheel, get the right people on the bus, get them in the right seats. And after you go on a wonderful journey again, and as I said, that's my experience. You know if To check if Tipperary were flawed and under Stock Exchange here in Ireland, we would have crashed about six times over my over my six years involved because it doesn't go right every day. But I'm a big believer in in the bounce back. I never focus too much on the setback, when we lost the monster find a couldn't really sleep I was laying awake, we could have been by 12 points per Limerick. I'm on my notes on my phone, and I probably had a half page of Tim gopher but we've gone a little different following morning, we went to the gym in Nina and half the team were there and we dealt to tortoise. And this was before one o'clock on the night after losing the monster final. So we quickly moved into the Ireland series and that bounced back because to me, it's 10% of the problem and 90% on the solution, I get very solutions focused. And I'm a big believer that if everybody if we have a group of 5050, white paper, if everybody is doing treating better after monster as we head into our current series, now all of a sudden we're doing 150 270 things better, get ready for download. And seriously, that's a big part of my of my understanding. And all the time trying to find the positive that lets the people and the team know that I still believe and we can go on and we can finish this journey off. Because all the ultimate price here is the alerting championship. That's that's the ultimate price. That's what people remember. That's what people talk about. And as I said, We want you to get back into that arena. And when you do, it's just it's just an exceptional place. But, you know, leaders need to understand that the journey is never a straight line. And you will hit you will hit roadblocks and it's been able to engage and connect with people that will give you open honest and genuine feedback, I think is hugely, hugely important.
Paul Barnett 46:37
When maybe just one last question to finish, I think I know how you're going to answer it. But I'll ask the question anyway. What's the legacy you hope you've left behind you, the players and the staff and the administrators that have been involved in the teams that you've led?
liam sheedy 46:56
Again, like, to me, like legacy is big for me. You know, and, you know, we talk you hear a lot about teams. And you talk about leaving the jersey in a better place. And I absolutely get that. I you know, that's an important part. But I think, you know, legacy for me is is leaving the people that are in in the setup in a better place. I don't just want to make better players I want to make the better people, I can still vividly see the tree and my players sitting in the Late Late Show, which is the chat show after we won the all Ireland and I just looked at the way they carried themselves throughout an interview. And I said they haven't just become better players. They've also become better people to any to any sport, the way they carry themselves. The humility often we put a big focus on on the 160 year old person I certainly do. You know, I mean, it doesn't go right all the time. Does people fall off the wagon? Of course does. Is there one? Or is there a few things where I said, God I've had that, again, I do differently? Absolutely, there is.
But I think the legacy is really positively impacting people where you've given them an opportunity to really flourish, they clearly have a skill. And it's my job to try and make sure that we expose as much of that skill. And we polish that diamond that they have when it comes to performance as much as we can. And I give everything to that. I love that whether it's in work scenarios in corporate world, or whether it's in in the sporting world, but the lazy for me is is leaving people in a better place than when I first met them. And as I said, sometimes you do things for people after pitch that are even more impactful. And is way more impactful than even winning all Ireland's and that's an important part for me too. But the legacy is the people. [PB14]
And again, you know, someone said to me, like you know, it means a lot over here and Ireland to win another championship and to get to do it twice with two different teams is is just unimaginable when I started off coaching the divisional teams and coach and Ballard and doing a bit with Tip intermediates did I ever think I'd go on to to Germany, I know that I know. It was a path I always wanted to travel, but I couldn't have envisaged the journey that I will go on. But looking back in it, I really committed to it. I had areas and gaps that I needed to go after and I went after the if you said to me, it could take take it all back. And if you were to win the battle, or win to earn it's a win win RM tip I will win when I run with a tip or two airlines all day long. It just is such a sense of pride. Pride is much bigger than money. And it's something that I was so privileged to be surrounded by great players, great people around me. I always say if you surround yourself with great people, great things will happen. And the administrators were always very, very helpful in terms of the vision that I was creating for the team. They were happy to buy into that vision as well. And as I said, thankfully we went on until one of the journeys is regrets course there is there's some days where I thought we were across the line and we didn't get across the line. But you know what? That's all power to like most teams if they didn't have time, they're lucky. If you have a 50% win rate, you're lucky so you know you're well you need to go into this with your eyes wide open for the legacy of knowing that you've positively impact people in the journey to the stage where they're doing well, on the pitch. And off the pitch is something that I'm very proud of. And that's why, as I said, my passion in life right now is to, is to make a difference and to really look to work with people to help them to play, and live to their potential, whether that be in business or sport. And that's what I connect to. That's what I love doing. And I must say, you know, I was very lucky, as you rightly pointed out, I was probably toward chase to get that job in Tipperary in the winter of 2007. And to have gotten it and to have gone on the journey I've gone by source or source or delighted to have it's privileged to manage people to work with people, but especially to manage players who are playing at the top of their level for the county that we come from. There's there was parish involvement with my own club era. And again, you know, bringing that cop back into your own village into your own community going off to the Hall of Fame and seeing all the kids getting their pictures taken with it, like when their life changing moments. And that's, and that's the legacy, I think, because those kids now have a vision to say, God, if I want to apply myself up here in this sort of field, could I become one of those players and leave somebody involved again, in the club this year in the intercounty setup, so it's great for the communities as well and and it's nice to be able to, to bring something back into the village because this villager portrait has given me everything it's given me and it's molded me into the, into the person I am today. And it's a great village. You know, the people in here are just exceptional. And yeah, it's it's, it's, it's been wonderful, wonderful. And only 54 years, so who knows what the future might have all
Paul Barnett 51:32
those live? Who knows? It's been great chatting with you. Thank you for making the time. I am not getting too too annoyed when I pestered you for all those years but I'm glad we got time to connect. It's been a great interview and I wish you all the best for the setting up of Blue Lake High Performance.
liam sheedy 51:51
Thanks for believing. Hi, we're talking to you all the best