Lin Dunn edit V2
Thu, Mar 21, 2024 4:11PM • 26:10
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coaches, scholarships, college, program, players, learned, mentor, tennis, team, great, women, competitive, hard, sport, recruit, indiana, taught, years, intramurals, volleyball
SPEAKERS
Lin Dunn, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
leaned on. Good morning, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Lin Dunn 00:06
Good morning.
Paul Barnett 00:07
Great to chat. Could you tell us where you are in the world and what you've been up to so far today? Well,
Lin Dunn 00:13
today I am in South Florida. But I will be returning back to Tennessee shortly in the next 24 hours. And then I will head back to Indiana, as we start the second half of the fever season.
Paul Barnett 00:30
Yeah, well, we're going to talk about your latest job. But I would like to start by just talking about a few of the all time great coaches that you've had in firsthand experience with John Wooden, Bobby Knight, D. Smith, and of course, from a different sport, read our back, then they're amazing people. And I know that you've met so many other coaches on your journey, which we're gonna get into, but what do you think the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?
Lin Dunn 01:03
Um, wow, that's a great question. And you just listed some of my heroes when you when you met mentioned that list. I would also add, probably Pat Riley to that list. And I would probably add, he'd be Brian, those two had a huge impact on my career. Well, gosh, don't underestimate Vince Lombardi, you know, and what he did with the Green Bay Packers, all of those coaches, those successful coaches have had an impact on me because I've read their books, you know, read about their life. And so I've taken a piece I think, from every one of them, you know, things that I liked that they said, but they were all relentless, just relentless in their pursuit of excellence. You know, they were never satisfied with mediocre, they were never satisfied with good. It was always about being better and being the best and constantly striving I think for for excellence,
Paul Barnett 02:09
while talking about taking pieces of people, your father was a Marine, and I understand he was also a champion hurdler at Vanderbilt, and it was he who encouraged you really love sport, but how was his influence visible in your approach to leadership today?
Lin Dunn 02:26
Well, Paul, you've been reading my background, haven't you? You've been checking up on me. Exactly right. My father was a Marine. So he instilled in us some of those militaristic characteristics of being demanding attention to detail, persevering, and being highly competitive. I think at an early age, he taught me about being competitive and striving to win. And I think, as I grew older, I had to kind of calm down that striving to win you know, sometimes you get so caught up in it, you're willing to do whatever to win, but then learning how to win, but not at all costs, you know, just get it keep it under control, but he definitely had that impact on me and I think it was because of his marine background and his his athletic background at Vanderbilt.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 03:22
So before we get to learning to put that competitive drive in control, let's go on a bit of a journey because your first job if I've got this right was at Austin Peay. Is that how you pronounce it p
Lin Dunn 03:33
pronounce it just like it sounds. P.
Paul Barnett 03:35
Yeah, Austin Peay, and you're a physical education instructor. But that was over 50 years ago lead, how did that experience propel you forward? How did it shape you?
Lin Dunn 03:48
Well, I was actually 53 years ago, the fall of 1970 when I was hired at Austin Peay, and I was hired as a physical education instructor. I taught the one hour PE course courses, but now remember, this is before title nine. So it was really important to me because I did not get to play in college, I did not get to compete. In college, there were no scholarships, but I wanted to make sure that young women had the opportunities that I didn't have. And so I also coached volleyball, basketball, and tennis in my free time, and I was the cheerleader sponsor. So it was an enormous responsibility. But I was young, I was 21 I was high energy. And so I was able to coach all three of those sports teach all eight different PE classes, and I'm talking about archery, golf, beginning swimming, Scottson tumbling, you name it, I taught it and still coach those choirs and I look coaching those players looking back because they played because they love the game. There were no scholarships. You know, we had no budget we had no transportation, you know, we get the back of my big red car and drive down the road and play The game and get back in the car and drive back. So it was a, it was a tough time. It was a challenging time. But I have real fond memories of those women that played because they love to play.
Paul Barnett 05:10
Well, from there, you head over to Ole Miss is the head volleyball tennis coach.
Lin Dunn 05:16
That was a real treat for me, Paul, because that was the first time I was hired just to coach and didn't have to teach any more classes, even though I enjoyed teaching classes. But now I was really focused on Kochi. And I was able to give some, some partial scholarships, we were given scholarships and volleyball was starting to give scholarships in tennis. And so I was there at a time where we were really building the foundation of their women's programs. And even though I was only there for two years, you know, I think I had an impact in that program.
Paul Barnett 05:51
But there was also some life lessons in that program that helped you experience and I think really shaped you as you went forward. Could you tell us about those? Well,
Lin Dunn 06:01
I think you have to remember now I was working at at Ole Miss in the 70s in the silence, and there were still some areas of concern about how we treated people. I know, for me being in an environment where we were limited with the number of blacks that we could have on our team, we were discouraged from having lesbians on our team. And so it was not a moment that I really embraced. And I think that's one of the reasons why it was best for me to move on after two years, even though I enjoyed volleyball, tennis. And then the second year I coached the basketball team, and was able to compete at the highest level against Delta State who was the three time national champions and coach against one of the greatest coaches in our game, Margaret Wade. But some of the the philosophy at that particular time, I just really didn't feel comfortable. And so I left after two years.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 07:01
And you hit it over to you in at the University of Miami. And of course, there, you became the head basketball coach. But the challenge was different, wasn't it? Because you had to build a program from scratch.
Lin Dunn 07:13
Yeah, I didn't realize I left America, you know, when I when I went to Miami, because everybody spoke Spanish, but me and, you know, this is this was my first real encounter with diversity, you know, with different cultures with different backgrounds with different religions. You know, I grew up little Southern Baptist, you know, I just had never been outside of Tennessee or Mississippi. And so this was a great learning experience for me about the value of diversity about the value of different ideas, different people from different backgrounds, and I was challenged with building building programs down there, I gave some I gave the first school scholarship and women's basketball, I gave scholarships and volleyball. I even coached the softball team, even though we didn't have scholarships, but it was a I was there for nine years. And there were there was a time when they had really, really good, not good, great football, Jimmie Johnson, and how it Schnellenberger and you know, Bernie Cozaar, and many testers, so it's a great time to be at Miami. And I really enjoyed it. And I love building those programs, even though it's very, very difficult. It was and I had very little staff. That's one thing I've learned, you know, how to get by and make the most of what I've got with the least amount of support work. Was
Paul Barnett 08:35
it more than just the money and the resources that made it difficult?
Lin Dunn 08:38
Well, the resources always when you're struggling, you don't have your own facility you have to share the facility with with intramurals. It was just hard, you know, and then you the other teams that you're competing against Florida, Florida State, you know, they've already made substantial commitments, you know, to their women's program. So I was always in that underdog role, you know, saying we had to overachieve and we had to milk, the turnip and get more out of what we had than anybody else. But, you know, I like to challenge I'm always like to challenge back
Paul Barnett 09:15
you've underdogs is a theme that runs through your whole story. I wanted to ask you, what's the secret when it comes to the mindset of getting the right mindset to be a good competitive underdog?
Lin Dunn 09:29
Well, I think I think it comes to motivation. I think when it comes to knowing that you are the underdog and that you're going to be overlooked. You're going to be unappreciated, there's going to be some disrespect. And so you can use that as motivating factors. And so you can always challenge your players you know, you you're going to surprise these people. You're going to you're going to upset them. You know, we're we're the upset See it. And so there were times that I felt like some of those players really, really responded to motivation better than some of the elite athletes, you know. So if you have a sense of entitlement or a sense of complacency that you've already arrived, you're a little bit harder to motivate and then the underdogs. You[PB3]
Paul Barnett 10:22
talk a lot about mentors last night when I researched you. There's a lot of interviews when you talk about the great mentors you've had. There's been a vignette noona Kennett, and Betty Giles, and now you're you get mentioned as a mentor to other people, I wanted to ask you, what's the secret to being a good mentor?
Lin Dunn 10:43
I think a good mentor is someone that can be a truth teller. You know, you need to be careful when you choose a mentor, that all they ever do is crazy. You know, a mentor tells you the good, the bad, and the ugly. A mentor will tell you when you're off track, a mentor will give you an honest opinion. A mentor will say no. And a mentor will challenge you to do better. And so I think it's important that you pick someone that will do that for you, you know, you can have a board of governors, you can have a friendship circle, if you want some, somebody over there, that's just going to praise you all the time. But you definitely people that you can turn to and say, Hey, this is happening. What do I need to do? How do I get back on track? And they'll tell you the truth. It's so it's about truth telling.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 11:38
Talking about getting back on track, you talked earlier about having to learn to keep that competitiveness a little bit under control. Was there a moment or a series of events that sort of led you to understand that?
Lin Dunn 11:50
Oh, you know, Amen. Go back to high school and college, you know, I just couldn't stand to lose, I couldn't stand to lose. You know, in high school, I got to play the old Three On Three ways for two years. So I never got enough competitive drive out of my system. And then I go to college, and there's no teams and so I'm playing in intramurals and I'm competing to kill everybody and when everything when the badminton when the tennis when the volleyball just in again, I think it was instilled in me by my father, you know, when I was, you know, if you're going to play play to win. And but then as I got older, you know, I'm like, okay, just tone it down, calm down. It's okay to be relentless. But just make sure you stay on track, you know that you don't run over people or embarrass people or do anything that that your grandmother wouldn't be happy about.
Paul Barnett 12:46
I love that idea of your grandmother. So we get to 1986 Lynn, and you move over to Purdue. And at your first game. You had 500 in the stands in your last game. If the figures are right, there was 9000 What was some of the first things you did that drove the success of that program?
Lin Dunn 13:06
Well, I think when I left the University of Miami came back to America came back to West Lafayette, Indiana, Purdue University, the big 10 It was a time of change. You know, this was this was the 80s and Title Nine had been passed. And schools are starting to give scholarships and resources for assistant coaches. And so I think the time me going there was perfect with my competitive spirit. My knowledge of the game and
I will say this, one of the things that has helped me is my thirst for knowledge. You know, I'm a, I'm a video a Holic, I love to watch video, I love to read coach books, I love to read coaches. And so I'm constantly learning, I'm always learning, you know, that old saying when you're through learning you're through. And so by the time I got to, to Purdue, I was ready to be involved in creating a championship caliber program, you know, they could sustain long time forever. [PB5] And then I had some good assistant coaches, the Midwest is a perfect place to recruit talent. And that's another the tight knit and all the pieces that you need. We're kind of I'm not sure Purdue knew what they were doing when they hired me because, you know, they just needed a coach. I'm not sure they needed what I had in mind. You know, I had championships in mind. And so we recruited hard. We worked hard. We we modeled our program after the other two teams in the big team that were so successful. I love with Vivian Stringer, in Ohio State with Nancy guard. I will tell my players that's who we want to be. That's how we're going to compete in two years. That's how we're going to compete in three years and that fourth year We're going to beat them both. And so I've sold my staff and my players on that concept. And
Paul Barnett 15:07
of course, he did beat them both. I have this great quote from Julian, you say, balance is the key in everything in your personal life in your professional life, in your three point shooting your drives your post up, we've got to have balance. So lean, how can we bring more balance to our lives? Well,
Lin Dunn 15:26
it's challenging. If you're highly competitive, if you're striving for success 24/7 It's, it's hard, but at the same time, you have to be you know, you have to be cognizant of the concept of less is better, sometimes less is better. Instead of practicing three hours less practice an hour and a half, and maybe we'll get just as much done, you know, instead of spending 10 hours over there at the office, I'm only gonna spend five and now most time with my family, you know, so, so less can be better. And less can also create an opportunity where you're more productive. And so I think that that's real key when it comes to balance. And if I had to do over, I would look back to my early years and coaching and I would have spent more time with my family, I would have spent more time with my mother, I regret that I didn't do more and spend more time with her. But I learned that lesson, you know, now, at this particular time in my eye, I know I can be successful at both a personal life and professional life. But it took time for me to learn that[PB6]
Paul Barnett 16:37
when you give advice to other young coaches, because you're still heavily involved with with many, many coaches. What do you tell them they need to stop doing in order to get that balance? Right? Hmm,
Lin Dunn 16:50
wow, that's a toughy. Paul, what do you need to stop doing? Well, I would it's probably stop being so hard on yourself, you know, so So in other words, be patient, be patient with the journey, be patient with the process, you know, take baby steps, it's almost like a child, you know, you have to crawl, you have to walk and then you have to run. And sometimes you can't skip those steps. And so you have to be patient with your sale, you have to be understanding that there is a journey, and there is a process. And then you have to be relentless. In your your preparation and your knowledge of where you want to go, you have to employ it, I hit the vision, I know where I want to go. And then I know how I'm gonna get there. A lot of people know where they want to go. But they don't have a plan to get there. So you have to have a plan. And then you have to put that plan in action.
Paul Barnett 17:45
Well, the story continues, the plan of action continues to do yet after the fever, and you join the fever as a scout in 2003. But in 2012, of course, you're the head coach and you lead them to the championship. And reading about that time. It seems like all the lessons you've had in your career to that point helped you succeed. But when you transitioned into the pros, what did you find most challenging?
Lin Dunn 18:11
Well, my first transition was the NBA was short lived grassroots teams, two years, I think in spent two years with them. And then I was given the opportunity to start the Seattle storm net expansion team, no team, no players, no, no logo, no nothing. So once again, we're the underdog once again, where they, you know, the one that nobody expects to do anything.
So I'm a builder, once again, I had a chance to build from scratch and see what I could put together over a period of time. I think the biggest thing I learned real quick, is that you're working with adults. The the dynamic between a college coach and their players is like a parent and the child in the probes. It's it's peer to peer, you know, we're on the same page, you know, I have to communicate with them in an entirely different manner than I would with college young. And so I am open to their ideas. I'm open to their suggestions. I'm going to treat them like an adult, I'm going to expect them to act like an adult. And that was an adjustment for me because remember, I've been in college now for 26 years where I was the boss my way or the highway. There was no other highway and there were no other bosses. And so I had to kind of change how I communicated. I had to listen more. I had to be open to what they thought it was an adjustment period for me.[PB7]
Paul Barnett 19:45
You're known for your talent identification and evaluation. It's one of your key strengths. I wanted to ask you, where do people go wrong when it comes to identifying talent?
Lin Dunn 19:57
I think sometimes they're caught up With the athletic ability and skills of an athlete, and in or not, is investigative on the side of the character. One of the things that I learned, I learned this in college recruiting, we would go into the home of a recruit in the recruit would be there, and the parents and the family and I watched closely how that recruit, treated those parents. And if that recruit was rude and disrespectful or treated their parents in any form or fashion that I thought was unacceptable, I knew they wouldn't fit. And so that whole character piece, I think when you look at the great teams that sustained great success, like Tennessee, with Pat Summitt, like Gino and Connecticut, Tara, at Stanford, they bring in highly skilled athletes with strong character skills on and off the court. And so that, that you put that all together, and then they're able to sustain that success year after year,
Paul Barnett 21:09
when you also started coaches, for coaches to help other coaches lead successful programs. Tell us about that.
Lin Dunn 21:16
Well, one of the things that I've always felt strongly about is giving back, you know, so many people gave me opportunity, so many people helped me along the way. And then as I, as I came to the end of my coaching career, I thought, you know, but wouldn't it be great to be able to coach coaches, you know, I've coached players now for, I don't know, 40 years, let's, let's see if there's any interest in coaches being coached. And I was surprised, you know, it the opportunities it the coaches that reached out for short term coaching, or maybe for the whole season, or maybe for more than a year. And so it was it was, I found it very rewarding. That's actually how I ended up coming out of retirement and going back to Kentucky, as an assistant coach, when Matthew Mitchell reached out to me and said he needed help. And I want to say this about Matthew, I have enormous respect for him. Because he was able to say, I need help. And I think it's a strength. That's something that a lot of people think, Well, gosh, if I ask for help, I'm weak. No, no, no. If you ask for help, you're strong. You're smart, you realize that asking for help is a string. And so when Matthew asked for help, I said, Sure, I'll help you. I didn't realize it was gonna be a two year commitment. But it turned out to be a wonderful experience. And I was able to help him get his program back on track and, and then I stepped away again, and back to my consulting. But I've, you know, my consulting is confidential. Matthew knows that I talk about him, I use his him as an example of how help can help someone. But I, you know, 10, or 15 different coaches had an assistant that I've worked with through the years,
Paul Barnett 23:07
you created such a great legacy, a legacy of positive change for women. I think that has really helped those that have followed you. But what do you see as the main challenge needs that needs to be addressed for female leaders today?
Lin Dunn 23:24
I just think we need to keep growing the visibility, women's sports, I asked. I've seen the growth, through the implementation of title and the resources, that commitment. But now we're right on the cusp of becoming a very visible, viable endeavor. And I saw what happened with with the soccer team with the professional soccer team and how much visibility they've gotten. And then I saw this college season. With how much interest there was in the women's college game, not million view the championship game. And so I think in some ways, we've been a secret. These tremendous female athletes have not been able to get their games on TV and consistently like how do I find a game? How do I find a game? So I think we have to be more visible. You know, we have to showcase what we have the tremendous individual players like we've seen in tennis, like we've seen in golf. We need to see them in our team sport, softball, volleyball, basketball, college and pro and so keep pushing for that visibility.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 24:37
One final question, Lynn. You're still coaching is still the GM out there at Indiana. It seems like there's no end in sight for you. But in your quiet moments, when you do reflect what is it that you hope is the legacy you've left with all of these people that you've you've you've coached over the years? Well,
Lin Dunn 24:55
I think that's that's an interesting thought for me. because I've been involved so many times with building a program with building a program or rebuilding a program. So there's no doubt that I am, I am a builder. And I cherish that I liked that I liked that I'm known as someone that can build a program, build it from no success, little success, to great success. And so I'm proud of that. And so at the end of the day, I think my legacy would be wherever she worked, whoever she worked with, they got better. They got better. Whether it was 1% Every day, or 100%, from the beginning to the end, wherever she worked, they got better.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 25:45
If I was to challenge you lean, I'd also say you've paved the way for many other women who have followed
Lin Dunn 25:51
my hope so I really hope so. I'm proud of and to learn.
Paul Barnett 25:55
It's been great chatting to you today and reading about you and getting to know a little bit more of your story. So thank you for your time and I wish you all the best for the second half of the season with Indiana.
Lin Dunn 26:05
Thank you Polish man fun