Mike Thibault edit
Thu, Aug 24, 2023 6:01AM • 42:50
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
players, coach, learned, team, year, game, day, wnba, won, great, play, organizations, basketball, big, nba, women, mike, bit, omaha, job
SPEAKERS
Mike Thibault, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:04
Well good afternoon Mike Tebow and for rather good morning, your time and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Mike Thibault 00:11
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Paul Barnett 00:13
Mike, very excited to talk to you about all things basketball today. I can see you've got the USA shirt on and you're about to head off to camp. So appreciate. Appreciate your time, you know, giving us a little bit of your time before you head off.
Mike Thibault 00:27
24 hours I'll be on that flight. So
Paul Barnett 00:30
well, can I ask that with something really simple then to get his going? Where are you today in the world? What have you been up to so far? And where's that flight headed to?
Mike Thibault 00:40
I am in Washington DC, where I live year round now. I'm actually in Virginia across the river from Washington DC. We're a couple weeks removed from a unsatisfied unsatisfying finish to our season because there's only going to be one satisfied team at the end we lost in the playoffs to Seattle. They were better than us. When it counted. We had our chance in game one, and didn't get it done. So now I am preparing for USA Basketball starts training camp tomorrow night in Las Vegas for the World Cup in Australia. So that place near and dear to you. So we're headed to Sydney in about a week. But we will be in Las Vegas training this next week. I've got to take a little delay for a day. In the training at the end of the week. The Hall of Fame ceremony is next weekend and one of my former players Lindsay Whalen is being inducted and one of my former assistant coaches Marianne Stanley's been inducted as a coach and a former player. So it's a very busy and exciting basketball week. I'm glad I have USA Basketball this week to kind of get over the end of our season. But a lot to look forward to the next
Paul Barnett 02:00
month. Well, if it is in the weather in Australia will be fantastic and the crowds. And they should be pretty vocal cheering for the home team.
Mike Thibault 02:07
I would think so. And now they got the big return of Lauren Jackson coming back to their team. So a lot of people excited in Australia about what their team is going to look like.
Paul Barnett 02:18
So Mike, maybe I could start actually, I know you're heading off to the Hall of Fame. But when I was learning about you the list of coaches that you have had first hand experience to is quite extensive. I can see and Donovan poor Westhead, George Karl, of course, John Wooden, and I'm sure there's many, many others. And I'd like to maybe just start by asking you, from your long and storied career up close with these great coaches. What is it you think that they do differently that sets them apart?
Mike Thibault 02:51
Um, I don't it differently is, is a tough word. Because there's so many great coaches.
They all have a little bit different styles. But I think the first thing that always jumps out to me and it's what I tell young coaches too, is that you have to be yourself. And I think that all of these coaches, sometimes through trial and error, trying to figure out things is they have to identify their own personality that they are true to, before you can be consistent with your players. And I think that's, you know, there's principles that each coach has and they're all a little bit different. But, you know, give me a different example. You know, Paul Westhead was a person who fully believed in transition, fastbreak basketball, and he hung his hat on it, and, you know, he knew there were there would be criticism at times of, you know, how we played or you should do this, you should do that he knew what he was comfortable with and how he wanted to teach. And so he stuck to his principles. And so he, you know, he could change up, you know, with maybe a little bit different personnel. And, you know, tinkered with it as he went along in his career, but that's who he was John Wooden, was a kind of back to basics fundamentals coach, and he believed in certain things. And so he developed his UCLA high post offense, and he based most of what he did around that, and he had principles and his players had to, you know, work fundamentally every day in the basics of that offense in order to be consistent, but I think they all had an authenticity about them, that they just when they got up in the morning, they were going to be the same person that did were the day before as far as showing a consistent face to their players. You know, a lot of very different personalities, you know, some more lighthearted, some more serious, but they got comfortable in their own skin.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 04:57
Like I've got this great quote from you. I'd like to Ready to actually before I ask the question, and you say, I go back to where I first started coaching, I was coaching high school sophomores, we won a championship. But I was just as happy for those players, as I was for our mistakes players, because players on any team go through the same kind of ups and downs in a season. And I think as a coach, you're a teacher, you're a father, you're whatever. And it was the last part of that quote, that really caught my eye. And I wanted to ask you in the context of where you are today, with the mistakes, what is the role of a coach?
Mike Thibault 05:36
I don't think it's changed. I think that, you know, times have changed, social media has changed things, players change, but you're a teacher first, or a mentor. And, you know, I think the really good coaches and this goes back to your first question, too, is that the games are all great, the fans see the games.
But the joy of coaching comes in the day to day grind of teaching and watching a player develop a new skill or improve something that they've had, or you see that kind of light bulb go on where they've grasped a concept that's been, you know, hard to get. And I think, you know, just like a teacher in a classroom, or a music instructor, or, you know, a mentor in any other field, you want to see that light go on for somebody or make the leap. And I think that that is where the true joy of coaching comes from, you know, the winds are nice, and they are the final exam a lot of times, but it's in the, it's in the work that goes into, you know, the average person isn't going to see that musician who plays the piano, sit in front of that piano for you know, six hours at a time and go over and over the same scales, that same basketball player who's shooting 100 Free throws at a time and, you know, 103 point shots and 100 layups in a day just to improve their skill. And so when you see breakthroughs for players or guests see them getting better over a period of time, I think that's a part of it. And then the other part of the coaching, and everybody, it's, it's a cliche about talking about the journey, you know, to enjoy the journey, as much as the result. But I think that's so true. [PB2] [PB3]
A good team is like a family. And you have to have this camaraderie, and you have to have this, we're in this together feeling that also people don't see as a general rule, you know, they see the hugging on a court, you know, when a big play happens, you know, the high fives or whatever it is, but it's the day to day grind of getting through things. And, you know, the journey you take, whether it's in the airport together, or go into practice on the bus or those kinds of things. That's all part of that experience, too. And, you know, you're you're the the bandleader when you're going through that. And, and, you know, I said this to a team. Gosh, when I was in Connecticut, and probably I said this probably 17 or 18 years ago, and one of my players asked in front of the team, you know, like, when you look back on all this someday, you know, what will be important to you? And I said, I hope that someday the experience you have, when you're older, and you got kids or whatever, you're sitting on your back porch one day, and you say, you know, I remember that experience, and it gives me a warm feeling. And I can look back and say, it was a great thing. [PB4] [PB5]
So about five years ago, I got a phone call from a former player who played in Connecticut. And she said to me, Coach, I'm sitting on my back porch right now. And I'm having that moment you talked about, and she said, I just was remembering all the fun that group add, as we were going through that season, she said, I thought I didn't need to call and tell you that. And that really made my day, week, month, whatever you want to call it at that time, because you know, then you know that maybe you're making a difference beyond just the X's and O's of the game.
Paul Barnett 09:14
Well, I know that one of your team rules is to try and have something to laugh at every day. And you're quite overt about it. But But why was there something was there an event that sort of taught you about the joy of laughter within a team.
Mike Thibault 09:29
It was more observing other players, teams, coaches who I thought looked miserable and it wasn't just they look miserable that day, but as a general rule, that they were losing the reason that they picked up a basketball in the first place. You know, this is a kids game that you know, most people who play it, you know, at our level, picked it up on the playground or in a gym or in the dry when they were young, and it was the joy of the repetition of bouncing the ball and shooting it and hanging out with your teammates, or playing pickup on a Saturday morning or doing all those things, and so the joy has to be there for just the game itself, it can't just be because you get paid to do it. And part of that joy is enjoying what you're doing every day. And, you know, you have to have serious seriousness as to be good, but you also have to have a time in place for, you know, making fun of yourselves, you make mistakes, you know, some of them or they're just plenty, you know, plays that happen or things that go on. And so I don't, I don't do it the same now. But I've had teams where I thought they were overly serious. And I literally used to have different players, I told him, You got to come with a joke to start practice tomorrow. Or I've had practical jokers on my team that we're good at defusing tense moments at the right time, or players and coaches, you need to be able to poke fun, be, you know, be the Poke, you know, I just think that's part of it. He was on an even keel. And, and it keeps things real every day. I mean, you know, we're not, you know, inventing the wheel or curing cancer, we're playing basketball.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 11:21
Like, in 1989, you become the head coach and GM of the Omaha races. Now, I imagined at the time, this jewel leadership role must have led to a lot of learning through as you've pointed out earlier, earlier on trial and error. But how did that that first experience back with with Omaha? How did that change your approach to leadership?
Mike Thibault 11:44
Um, I'll back up one step from that. I actually spent one year in Calgary shortly right before that, in a league called the world Basketball League was for six, four and under players and I hadn't do the same thing there. So that gave me a year of preparation for Omaha.
But what what Omaha did for me, you know, I was there eight years. And I actually ended up becoming president of the team at one point. And so I was in charge of business. And I learned a whole bunch of things, I learned a lot more patience. I learned time management. And you know, I had young kids at the time. And probably that was one of our more difficult times as a family because I couldn't turn it off as a general rule, because you'd come home, and there would be calls from the business side, or what do you think about this marketing promotion. And then you're, you know, when the CBA At those times, which is, you know, for fans that don't know, it's, it's the G league now, and you had players going up and down to the NBA, and you were looking at roster, every week, you're adding or subtracting a player. And so I learned a to roll with the punches, you couldn't learn you can't control everything, as much as you'd like to thank you can I learned to manage my time, because I had to, my family still needed me. My wife was terrific about, you know, dealing with some things that, you know, normally both parents would deal with at the same time. And we kind of figured out as we did that, how we're going to make this work long term. And then I also use that time there as kind of an experimental lab for how you run a team, how you coach, I got a chance during that time there, you weren't in front of, you know, 10,000 people every night, you were playing in front of three or 4000. And you'd have players coming and going. And so I learned how to be flexible. I learned that I could experiment. And I wasn't going to get critiqued every day by 15 Media people. We had our one beat writer that followed us and you know, a couple local TV stations, but I could try to figure out who I was as a coach. [PB7]
And then the GM part of it, I could learn more about how you put a team together, how pieces fit, you're not doing fantasy sports, you know, where you're just going on stats, you got to have chemistry, you got to make players, you know, fit the puzzle with each other. And so I learned a lot about team dynamics, and how you, you know, even though you may have a more talented player, they don't fit that group. And so, you know, when the CVA and the G league did, they did a lot of trades, and there's a lot of movements. I had a lot of time there were you know, because guys got called up to the NBA the day before. I had seven players of practice I learned I learned a lot of three on three and four and four drills to sustain sustain it. And I also learned that you know, for for good and bad I mean, I only have one assistant coach and a trainer. It's not like the staffs we have nowadays. So I was doing a lot of the jobs that an assistant coach would do, as well as be the head coach. But I also appreciated that even more, because when I had a chance to have a bigger staff, I knew how to, you know, sort out roles to take pressure off not only me, but off of each other and share the work a little bit. So there was it was a daily
Paul Barnett 15:24
So there's Omaha. And then there's a few other organizations you've been involved with, I might just read off the list here. LA Lakers, Chicago Bulls, Atlanta Hawks, New York, Knicks, Seattle SuperSonics, the Milwaukee Bucks the Connecticut sun. I mean, Mike, it's such an impressive list of organizations that you've seen up close. And so when you when you sit back, and you think about these wonderful organizations, these world famous organizations, you've you've, you've been lucky enough to work with, what have you identified as the the building blocks of high performing organizations?
Mike Thibault 16:03
I think I've kind of alluded it to it before, but it's an organizational thing as much as it is a coach to, I think that you have to know who you are. Kind of what you stand for, for day to day principles. You know, of that group. It's funny, I am a, I'm a coach that gets roped into rebuilds or reconstructs of organizations. And so I walked into a Lakers organization as a scout first, and then an assistant coach who had a good identity about winning. But they hadn't gotten over the hump. I mean, we had Kareem, we had norm Nixon and others. But until we got Magic Johnson, that we couldn't reach the ultimate goal of winning championships.
And so the first lesson is, as a coach, don't think it's about you. You have to have great players to win. And one or two might not be enough. You have to have great players, and they have to fit together. And they have to be willing to share the spotlight and share the look load. And the accolades and everything else that go with it. And magic was a facilitator for everybody in that regard. He could make Kareem feel happy about playing each day. And so you need, you need great players. And they also have to be the hardest workers. So that's one of the things about an organization is that it's not about the coach, it's not about the GM. It's not about the owner of the team. It's about, you know, it's a player's lead. You need good coaches, you need all those people to fit. But it has to be everybody and understanding what it takes to win at the highest level. [PB8] [PB9]
And so the Lakers figured that out. When I went from there to the bulls, I went to basically a tee, an organization that was just trying to turn it around and figure it out. They had been bad for a couple of years. And yet they had a good coach and Jerry Sloan, who just they didn't have enough good players. So Jerry Sloan got fired. And Paul West had got the job. And I went with him. And my job was to come in. And one of the reasons the job intrigued me was, it was a chance to make a name for a team. And for myself as a young coach and talent evaluator, I came in as a coach and director of player personnel was to build this thing, you know, from what had not been very good. And so, you know, I looked at some of our Laker principles, but the first obvious thing to me is, Jerry Sloan might it might have been the coach of the year, and only 130 out of 80 games, because he didn't have talent. And so the very simple thing is you need talent. And so part of my job was to go about reconstructing that. So, you know, learning from organizations is there are ways to spend money there philosophies, but if you don't have great players, it doesn't matter. You could have the greatest coach in the world, Jerry Sloan won Coach of the Year, a lot more times when he coached in Utah, but he had Karl Malone and John Stockton. And he'll be the first to tell you that, you know, great players. And so we had to rebuild. I only spent a short amount of time with Atlanta and New York more on the player develop, you know, player personnel scouting side of it. But those were organizations that weren't very good at the time they were trying to find an identity. And I wasn't there long enough to be a part of anything one way or the other, but I got a chance to observe, you know what it takes to try to go get new tires. talent. And so when I went to Milwaukee, we were in that same mode. To some degree that we were in Chicago, when I went, we had a little more talent. They just hadn't learned how to win together. And George was really good at identifying, you know, how to use individual players, to the best of the group. And so, you know, he, he designed what he did to fit the players of players too. And so, you know, when I went back to coaching my own teams and Promatic in Washington, they were reclamation and Connecticut's more talent. And I took those when I came Washington, not not anywhere near that talent, but they hadn't learned how to win. So you had to install those basic principles of how you work together. Let's make use of the best players. Let's go get another player that facilitates Connecticut's a great example, that they had talent, but they had been mediocre. Well, then we add Lindsay Whalen to the mix. A young point guard, much like magic in the sense of, you know, makes everybody happy makes their jobs easier on the court, all of a sudden things change. You need that dynamic person to make it go. And you know, that's that's a really long winded answer. But it's it's a very consistent, simple thing, yet great players who like each other, who love being on the court, and make the pieces fit together.
Paul Barnett 21:29
Like your wife, Nancy says that, quote, you have a lot of empathy, pretend to be stoic and composed. And it made me wonder if there was a list, if I was to ask you to list out the most important attributes for a leader in the WNBA. Based on your experience, what would be the top of that list.
Mike Thibault 21:49
And it wouldn't even it wouldn't even just be the WNBA I think it's consistent the WNBA I coach it no differently than I would in the NBA, or college or high school or anything else.
I think the first thing is to be honest with yourself, and be honest with your players. Don't be afraid to tell the truth. You know, sometimes you have to, you know, sugarcoat it a little bit, or your approach and how you say it. But players instinctively know if you're trying to con them. And I think that you need to be honest with them honest with their skills and what you expect from them. I think you have to be honest with yourself about the level of play that you have how good your players are, you need to do constant self evaluation of your own personal things of your staff, and your organization in general, you just can't assume things are going on. Going the same. Without reevaluating. I like bringing in people from the outside to you know, who are basketball people who watch my team and will tell me the truth, you know, you guys stink at this, or you're good at this or, you know, I think that's part of it. [PB10]
I think the other part of it is you need to be consistent, you ask your players to be consistent in your behavior, or how they act with each other or how they act emotionally on the court. You have to be able to do that as a coach yourself. You know, in and I'm, I'm emotional at times, I think, you know, my wife was being kind because I think I, I have a lot of passion, I have to learn how to rein it in sometimes. But you're but your players also need to see that part of you too. I think that the stoic part comes in not overreacting to some things. But I think there's times you need to light a fire on the people and make them understand that this particular thing as a coach matters to you, and it's important, and that they need to see the same importance. And so I think, you know, you have to balance it. The other part of that is, you know, you only have so many opportunities or times in a year where you know, you can kind of use that chip that you know that you get somebody riled up and you get them going am i You can't do that every day or it loses its it loses its impact probably on anything. I think you have to you know, pick and choose your spots for you know, the firearm up speech or you know, whatever it is that gets everybody going. I'm not a big believer in these rah rah pregame pep talks. Usually they happen 30 minutes before the game and I found most most players have forgotten than 10 minutes after you gave it. So, you know, I think that that your preparation for games in the work you've done. I don't think you can have a team that doesn't have a motion but I think you also don't have to have a team that can play commonly when it's most needed.[PB11]
And so, you know, you have to, I think, as a coach, one of the things I've learned, you have to pick your spots. And, you know, tell the truth, be consistent. pick your spots, and know what they know what you're doing, you're not going to be able to fake people. You know, you do your homework, I think our players know even from my staff, that my staff has put the time in watching film and studying that, you know, if a coach on my staff talks to a player about something, the player goes, Okay, they've done their homework. I think that's important.[PB12]
Paul Barnett 25:39
What can I talk about spots, preparation and lighting a fire, actually, because in 2019, your team wins the WNBA championship. But the road to that victory started much earlier. In fact, I understand it was the pain of missing out in 2018, and sit in Seattle to Seattle, that drove that team. I'd really like to know my, what did you learn about motivation? through that period? I think
Mike Thibault 26:11
almost every player that makes it to this level is, for the most part highly driven, they're obviously talented, or they don't get to this level. They've been competitive to get to this level. But there sometimes is this understanding that needs to come of how hard it is, you know, there's that saying that, you know, if it was easy, everybody would do it. It's the true thing, when you think you've played really hard and you think you've worked on things. And you come up short and say, you know, should have could have what I could have could have been a little bit better at this. I could have done that. And actually, in 2017, we lost in the semi finals to Minnesota who won a championship. And then we got swept by Seattle, as you said, and our players knew there were a couple of parts of that number one. You know, we didn't have home court advantage. And that would have been nice. In both of those years. And so the difference in home court advantage, sometimes over the course of the season is one or two games. And did you let something slip away that you could have halfway through your season, and at the end of the year you regret it? I think the other part is you need something. When you go through the offseason, our offseason is really long. We're not playing this ad game NBA schedule, you know, we're playing 36 games or 34 games back then. And so, you know, in that long offseason, when you're thinking about, you know, the should have could have what is are you going to be able to push yourself through to do the little extra to become a little better, or you're going to go from being a 79%, free throw shooter to an 84%, free throw shooter? And what does that look like? Am I gonna be able to finish around the basket a little bit more with my offhand, when the game is on the line, I'm getting jumped, but you know, jostled and bumped and everything else in traffic? Am I going to be able to finish that play?
And so our whole thing was, you know, can you be just a couple of possessions better again, because if you can, each person is collectively that adds up quickly. And so our motivation was that each person is going to be a little bit better, you don't have to, you're probably not going to be 20% better or 15% better as a player, maybe if you're young, but can you get one skill better? Can you be a little bit better at this. And if you all commit to that, then we'll be better. And we did that we were better. It's ironic that, you know, I mentioned free throw CD, and I wasn't thinking about it specifically when I first set it to you. But, you know, we set an all time professional basketball, record, male, female, NBA, whatever, that year, as a free throw shooting team, we shot 87% from the line. And it won some of those games at the end of games during the season that we did not win the year before. And they prided themselves on that. And they you know, competed with each other with those kinds of things. And so I think that had a lot to do with, you know, the daily grind that I'm going to be a little bit better, and it paid off.[PB13]
Paul Barnett 29:32
Mike, there's this theme that runs through your career. When you embrace change, that in service of your own personal development, you move, but then you stay put for multiple years and you evolve and you you take in learning and you seem to roll it forward into your next role. And I'm wondering what advice you would now have for younger coaches when it comes to their own personal development?
Mike Thibault 29:56
I have some I've thought about that a lot. I think the first thing is You can't spend your life as a coach always looking for your next job. You know that one thing that's a little better. I see it a lot in young assistant coaches in college, you know, they're out recruiting, they're doing this, you know, trying to get ahead, but they're always networking. They're always, you know, networking is nice, but they're always trying to think you know, where my next job is, that can be in the back of your mind. But that can't be your priority, your priority should be, how do I get better at my current job? How do I help this group? Better? How do I make me better? As a coach? Do I need to study more? Do I need to look at new ideas? Am I going to be open to new ideas? What are what can I learn from this coach on this other team that I'm scouting? You know that, you know, we're getting ready to play them? And what can I learn from them. And so my biggest thing is don't be in a rush. [PB14]
And I got caught. That was the biggest dilemma for me about leaving LA to go to Chicago, I had to make sure I was doing it for the right reasons. And because I could have stayed in LA, for a long time, probably would have kept winning. But I had advice on how I was going to learn a little bit more. And kind of prove myself in a bad situation where were, you know, I learned from it, and maybe people would pay attention. But that's the one time I think, probably, I left thinking about my next job. And I didn't make a mistake. But it it kind of reminded me, I gotta know why I'm doing this. I think, you know, we live in a society to now where it's instant gratification. You know, we get judged. I mean, you see, you know, the WNBA was, I've been in the WNBA now, 20 years, and for about 15 or 16 years, every single offseason I was asked is the WNBA NBA going to survive? And you know, are you going to be out of business? And it was one of those things that my answer was? Well, people ask the NBA that every year that they went through, and all the franchise changes. And, you know, a lot of people nowadays don't remember the Fort Wayne Pistons that are now the Detroit Pistons, or the buffalo Braves to become the LA Clippers that became our the San Diego clippers that became the LA Clippers. So and So if everybody had judged the NBA on its first 15 or 10 years, they would have been out of business. And yet, it's the same thing individually about coaching, you know, you, you're gonna make some mistakes, you're gonna move around a little bit, but don't be in a hurry to just judge what you're doing by the first result. You know, do you have patience to to last a while coming here to DC. You know, I took a job that the previous two years they were six and 28, and five and 29. And, you know, the first year we made a big jump, we won, we won 17 games, and everybody goes, it's fixed, it's good. I knew darn well, we probably spoiled people because we have won more games. And we really were as good as we played harder than the previous group did. We played with more enthusiasm. But we weren't all that much more talented. And until we became more talented till we fix some other things. You know, it wasn't going to pay off. And it didn't pay off until we added a couple great players back to my very first statement about great players, you need to have great players will get in Elena della Don, and Christie Talavera in an offseason, that changes from being good to great.
And so, you know, I'm telling young coaches, it's not going to happen all at once. Patience, you know, is a virtue that everybody's preached for their whole lives. But it's true. If you don't have the patience to see something through, then you're always going to be unhappy. I know coaches that there were always looking for the next thing. And I never saw them as contented or happy people that couldn't live in that moment of enjoying what they were doing right then. And so that's my biggest advice for young coaches. And then the ladder. The other part of is be a sponge, be curious, be inquisitive, ask questions, watch other people. Be observant, learn new ways to do things. I, you know, I'm about to be 72 years old. And I can tell you, I probably learned five or six new things in the last month that I would do a little bit differently or want to change this drill or do some, if you aren't willing to do that and you're set in your ways. You're not going to get better.[PB15]
Paul Barnett 34:41
Mike, I understand it was your daughter who first said to you that we meet we need more focus on women's basketball. games come a long way. So you just sit down but I guess if it's going to continue to grow. What would you point out as the main priorities for the coming decade?
Mike Thibault 34:59
Oh, Um, some are individual skill things, some are big picture, I think that on the individual side, players continuing to do what we seem to be doing right now we're bigger, faster, stronger, as athletes in the women's game right now, you know, the average post player when I came in the league, probably what 6364 We have all these 6667 players now who are athletic, can handle the ball, you know, you have more versatility. You have you know, Elena della donna, Breanna, Stewart and Asia, Wilson, Jonquil, Jones, all these players who are 6665, who can shoot the three, they can post up, they can do all these things. Lauren Jackson in Australia was one of the first of that group, I thought, I think she helped change the game. But you got to keep evolving as a player, you can't let coaches when you're young put you in a box. And just because you're big, say Well, you're a back to the basket post player, I think you know, you you need young players to develop as athletes, as well as basketball players, you know, jumping, and sprinting and running and landing and all those things are going to be important to injury prevention to body development. I think that's part of it. I think the next part of it is a players need to be students of the game and watch more of their own peers of the NBA, international play, and, you know, continue to learn new ways to get better, both as teams and coaches and players. And then the last part is a more global thing for the general public. We have a much more aligned acceptance of women's sports now than we did, but it's still not there. We're seeing TV, programming, take on more and spend more and pay more for the rights to women's sports, that's going to be the difference. You know, everybody says why can't we pay our players more? Well, we're not gonna be able to pay him more until TV pays us more. And I think that that's the next big horizon that you know, has to be hurdled. As far as the game, we need more parents, to encourage their kids, whether they're boys or girls to watch and appreciate women's sports, not just basketball, but women's sports in general, I think we're seeing more that we're seeing more dads, coaching their daughters. And, you know, it used to be, you know, the the old image of a father wanting to have a son and coach their son, you got a lot of dads now are just as happy to coach their daughters and see their progress. And that's been a big change.
But I find one other thing that's interesting out there. If women want to have more rights for women, athletes, and more appreciation for women's sports, women need to take up the mantle as much as anybody. It's interesting in the United States right now 50% of the NFL football, watching population is women. Can you imagine that would be what that would do for the WNBA that we need moms and dads to take their kids to events, to not want free tickets to pay for the you know, to go to a game because, you know, I think there's been this image out there that, you know, I'm willing to pay big dollars to go to an NBA game or an NFL game. But we trivialize the women's game if we're not willing to do the same thing. And that has stuck out to me on the business side and more than anything else. You know, if you're willing to spend, you know, $14 or $15 to go to a movie, why are you looking for a ticket half that price to go to a pro women's basketball game or a college women's basketball game? You know, you have to give it the same credence that you would something else, you cannot devalue the product. And I think that's, you know, another step that we need to take. And I have those discussions with our fans when we do business, a basketball thing, you know, fans are wanting, you know, free this and free that. But you want our players to get paid more? Well, you can't have it both ways. There is a cost to doing business. And so, you know, I think that that's a reality that needs to be addressed if we want women's professional sports to succeed because if it does succeed, and it's on TV, and it will trickle down to every level of women's sports. And I just feel that that's, you know, somewhere we need to go with it.
Paul Barnett 39:59
Mike, you've been I'm so generous with your time today, I know you're racing to catch a plane. So I've got one final question. And I'd like to start it with a quote, actually, because you say, you prefer the individual success of a player than the coaching thing, in quote, and I guess in the distant future, if you ever retire, would you like your legacy for these individuals to be?
Mike Thibault 40:25
Yeah, and I think that that quote is I liked the individual and the team as opposed to the, the legacy of your coach. I would like kind of back to what I said early on, for players to look back and say, This coach had my best interests at heart, I learned how to be a better basketball player, but I also learned how to be a better adult human being. You know, as I go through this, I want players to think beyond themselves and want an appreciation for what they've done. And so, you know, I'm not the most religious person, but I'm a big believer that you treat others, you know, the golden rule of treat others, like you would want to be treated. And I want players to come away from an experience of being coached by me that I've lived up to that, that I want them to know that I had their best interests at heart, and that I cared, and that I'm going to enjoy talking to them and observing them five or 10 years after they're done playing, see what kind of parent they are, what kind of, you know, wife or husband, they are, you know, I get, I get a lot of enjoyment out of, you know, seeing former players and how they're succeeding or what they're doing. But I want them to walk away from being coached by me or by my staff, saying that was a great experience. That's that's what I would like, the wins and losses come because of that. You know, and, and you're not going to always have the best. There's only one happy team at the end of every year in the league, the one that wins a championship and not everybody's going to win it. But I do want them to say this was worthwhile.[PB16]
Paul Barnett 42:26
Mike, I think enjoyment treating others like you want it to be treated and worthwhile is a pretty good place to finish. So thank you so much for your time today. All the best in Australia. I hope that you come second. I really do.
Mike Thibault 42:41
I might not ever be coaching again if we come in second.
Paul Barnett 42:44
And I'll be watching on from afar but I really appreciate your time today, Mike