Nancy Lieberman

Sat, Feb 11, 2023 6:58PM • 1:01:17

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, coach, nancy, old dominion, day, nba, players, nancy lieberman, life, knew, called, wnba, world, kids, job, basketball, athletes, court, friends, pat riley

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Nancy Lieberman

Paul Barnett 00:00

Good morning, Nancy Lieberman, and welcome to the Greg coach's podcast.

Nancy Lieberman 00:44

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Paul Barnett 00:46

I'm very excited to talk a little bit of basketball with you today. And of course, go through your long and storied career, which goes all the way from Brooklyn, through to your present boss, which is of course, Ice Cube, ~~but I'm sure we'll get to that as we go along. I've got a bit of~~

Nancy Lieberman 01:05

it's, it's pretty unbelievable when you get to this point in your career, and you've gone to the WNBA and the NBA and Olympics and all this other stuff. And the cool part is yes, as he was my boss, my friend, and one of the coolest cats I've ever been around in my life, very kind, very humble. He's amazing, better than advertised.

Paul Barnett 01:29

Well, let's start with something really simple. Nancy, can you tell us where you are in the world and what you've been up to so far today?

Nancy Lieberman 01:36

Well, I'm in Dallas, Texas. I am in my home at the moment, I should say Plano, Texas. So every morning I get up and the first two hours of every day are for me whether it's meditation, reading some, you know spiritual Bible verses when I wake up. It's a great day. And I always look forward to seeing who and what I can inspire. I send out on Twitter and Instagram. My thought of the day my message of the day, I go to work out we have a facility in Prosper Texas, about 15 minutes from where I live. So I go in there like today I did some rehab. I had my knee replaced a couple years ago. I go in there, rehab, it could be cupping, it could be dry needling, it could be stem, it could whatever Kisa or Britt decide I need to do. And I go into the gym with all the football players, Dallas Cowboys and professional football players. I work out I lift and do my cardio. Then my son TJ and I have a Basketball Academy. We are in a sister suite with you know, APEC. So we have our Basketball Academy, this beautiful indoor court, where athletes train, you know, pros, a kid's college. And you know, I just mess around and shoot he was in there. He's getting ready to go to Europe. So I was in there today just messing around shooting and left. And this is my only day off because I do the TV for Oklahoma. So we had the game last night we we've won four in a row. And the youngest team in the NBA is turning heads.

Paul Barnett 03:30

Man, see, I can't believe you get all of that done. Today before we even chatting. I know it's early earlier. So thank you so much for carving out a little bit of your busy schedule for us. Nancy, I want to name drop a few of the people that you've worked with, you've had firsthand experiences some great coaches and I know that you talk to and know so many others, but the names that popped out to me were Pat Summitt, Pat Riley and Rick Carlisle and this has many, many others. But I wanted to ask you, Nancy, from this experience, up close, what do you think the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?

Nancy Lieberman 04:12

So great question, Paul. The greatest coaches and I've played for some of the best as you said, Hall of Famers is communication. It's how they treat you. It's not just obviously their tremendous X's and O's. But if you can't communicate and connect, you're coaching human beings, you're not coaching robots. And if you know if you think you can just say do this, do that, do this, do that, because I'm really good at what I do. You're not going to get the desired results that you would hope for. I think it's important to be kind I think it's important. I'm going to tell you I've been on all sides of this. You know, I've been a player you know a great portion of my life. I've been a coach you know for three Over the years, I've been a commentator. And the one thing I have with athletes, whether it's football, baseball, basketball, you know hockey, soccer doesn't matter is Be kind to people be firm but be fair. [PB1]

And everybody has their style Pat was kind of an in your face. I got that. I got the steely blue eyes a few times, like right here. But I knew she was trying to make me better even though you know, sometimes she she actually made me feel uncomfortable a lot. Same thing with Marian Stanley, my college coach, we won back to back national championships. She pushed me she pushed her team. And that's why, you know, we set the bar for women's collegiate basketball. You know, back in the 80s. Pat Riley was Pat Riley us tough. You know, when I played for Pat with the Lakers in 81, those legendary three hour practices were real, they weren't made up or a myth. And but you know, he had a plan, and he had a process and he was trying to get you to understand, you know, what he was looking to do. And, you know, like I said, I You said it, I played for the best of the best. And I've learned from them. When I got into the coaching profession. The first people I call was Tara VanDerveer was Pat Summitt was you know, Pat Riley, you know, Rick Carlisle, Bobby Knight, anybody who could help me and I can glean, you know, some knowledge. I even hired Billy Moore, the Hall of Fame coach, who's at UCLA won the championship back in 1978. And she was the coach of the Olympic women's team in 1976. When we won the silver, on the first time, women's basketball was ever an Olympic sport. I called Billy and I asked Billy, would you please come to Detroit? This is 1998. Explain to me why we go from this drill into this drill to this drill to this drill. I've been through it. But I never really understood why we go to whatever progression and put it in layman's term. And so people have been very kind to me. And you know, now, you try to do the same thing and look at code Popovich and the tree he has in the NBA, because he was such an incredible mentor to people. And he just, you know, he was hard on you, he throw you in the deep end a few times. You Bob, you think you're drowning? You go down for a second time. And then he was the guy jumping into save. You know, but sometimes we learn with tough love in it. Anything that we do, even as a mom, I have compassion for my players. We're not perfect. But you know, we, like I said, we we can lead with loving kindness and let these extraordinary athletes know that we care about them, not just for their immense talent.

Paul Barnett 08:14

Nancy, it's an amazing transition. It's an amazing apprenticeship. But let's go back to that transition in 98. When you went into coaching with the WNBA as Detroit Shock, when you think back on that time now, what do you remember finding most challenging as a new leader?

Nancy Lieberman 08:33

Well, I had just come off the court and I played it 39 years old, the first year of the WNBA for the Phoenix Mercury. To be honest, I really never had thought about coaching. You know, I had been doing TV for a good portion of my life because really, there was there was no WNBA and the women's leagues I played in it happened it folded it happened it folded. I didn't know if I was gonna coach and then Detroit and the Washington mystics came to me and, you know, they, they interviewed me both for their job. And I knew Rick Sund who was the GM of the Detroit Pistons because I knew I'm from Dallas. So I had a comfortability. And I knew that he would help me and mentor me. I think the one thing I realized when I got into Detroit and accepted the job, and there was this huge office and there was like piles and piles and piles of resumes, secretaries of training, physios marketing community relations, coaches, assistant coaches, trainers, my little brain was spinning. It was spinning. I was like, Okay, how are we going to do this? How am I going to get through this because we were expansive. So we didn't have an infrastructure. So you know, I do have to think Tom Wilson and Rick Sund. And, you know, Doug Collins, in so many of the coaches there, you know, for really leaning in and helping me, I'm a highly organized human being almost animal organized to a fault. But, you know, just understanding the the new role that I was in. And then of course, I had to also coach and what, you know, people keep saying, What's your style? How are you going to do things which are defensive, you know, schemes and philosophies, and I kept saying, well, you'll see what because I was waiting to see as well. So, you know, I hired Sonny Allen, Sonny Allen, you know, it was a coaching with the Dallas Mavericks. And I called Sonny up, and he's Old Dominion. So again, we knew each other. And I just missed Sonny, he was he coached Old Dominion in 1975, to division two national championship. Then he went to SMU, I came, you know, and went, you know, to Old Dominion, I just missed him. And then, you know, we kind of converged in Dallas, you know, years later. And I remember him asking me probably 10 years before I coached, he called me he goes, You known as when you get a coaching job. I'd love to coach with you. And I went, I'm gonna coach, why would I coach, I love what I do, I get to do TV. I work with young people, kids, I speak I, you know, I do what I do. And he goes, Okay, well, when you get your job, you know, keep me in mind. And there it was, I called him from the car after I accepted the job. And I said, sunny, I would like to hire you, despite assisting coach with the Detroit Shock. And then, you know, because I didn't have like a lot of coaches. I didn't have that, you know, kind of grouping of coaches. And then, you know, I played for the Dallas diamonds, and Greg Williams is my coach both times. And I call Greg Williams, I say, Greg, do you like to go to the WNBA with me, when you have a problem, like, teach me everything that you know, because I need to know what Sonny knows, I need to know what you know, then I have to formulate my, you know, my own structure with their support. It was beautiful. It was it was amazing. And we go 17 and 13. You know, we had the highest. I think at that time, it might still be this way, the highest winning percentage of any expansion team and you know, all of the the four major sports. We missed the playoffs by on a tiebreaker on the last day of the season. And then our second year, we became the first team in WNBA. History, expansion teams to make the playoffs. So I was learning as I was teaching. I think the what I learned from the past summits in the Pat Riley's in the Marian Stanley's and Dean managers and char Evander veers, and Henry Bibi's.

You know, I learned structure I learned the hard work, you know, keep it simple grind. And that's what we did. So, you know, we have a lot of things we want on tenacity. And the players were receptive to wanting to be better, you know, be better today than you were yesterday. And my job was to give them the why we're doing what we're doing. You know, this is what we're going to do. This is why we're going to do it, these will be the results. So I'm more of a minimalist, in my approach to success.[PB2] [PB3]

Paul Barnett 13:54

I want to explore this idea of structure a little bit with you, Nancy, because I've got this terrific quote from you. I'd like to read the quote before I ask you the question. And you say, it's how you treat people. And I know, there's no column for this in the statute. But if you lead with love and kindness, you continue to pour into people in the moments that are tough, because you have a relationship. The ship doesn't have to go south. It's a great quote that it got me thinking, you know, in this high stakes world of professional basketball, where you have built your life, I imagine that this philosophy is not so common. So I wanted to ask you, where did it come from, and how did you develop it?

Nancy Lieberman 14:39

Well, again, I think a lot of what you formulate in your life comes from experiences that you've had, and I had some really great coaches, like I said, who were tough on me, but you know, I think everybody who really knows me and knows my career, and that's been plentiful knows my relationship with Mohammed Ali and Ali used to tell me when I was, you know, 1920 21 years old. You know, he used to say the greatest religion of all is loving kindness. You can get people to do things if you show them love and respect. And we've had like long conversations. Like I asked him one time. I think it was Howard being the photographer, his friend who took all those, like, hundreds of 1000s of pictures of all leads. And he goes, Nancy, we're in New York, and Ollie just did an appearance. And we're in a limo. And we're driving. I don't know if he I might be fudging on the street, but we might be going down Broadway. And we then get like going through Harlem. He says and you know, like in Rocky, there's the the garbage can that has a fire and people are just warming their hands up, you know, you know the underserved community or homeless community. And he says to the limo driver, stop the limo. And the guy goes, sir, we are in the worst part of Harlem. He goes, Yeah, please stop the car, in Ollie gets out. And he goes over to the trash can that it has fire in it to warm these guys up. Because you're freezing. He stood out there for 2530 minutes just chopping it up and showing love, kindness respect to strangers. Nobody pays attention to in part of Mohammed secret sauce, in my opinion. I you know, I have 40 some odd years in with him is the fact that he just made people feel special. You know, they call him the people's champ when they stripped him of, you know, his his title, his championship title. And he's the people's champ, not because of what he did in the ring. It's the people's champ because of what he did outside the ring. And you know, he was tough as nails. But man, he just let people know that he cared. And he backed it up with actions, not words. [PB4] [PB5]

I mean, we're in life. There's so many people who it's so much noise It drives me crazy. Let me tell you, our grandma Ali, never you know, I mean, Ali was all Li You know, his phraseology is rapping was legendary. But he he backed it up with flat out action, airy moments, like getting out of a limo in the dead of cold in New York City in Harlem, just to spend some time with strangers. This is not there's people all over the world that have their Muhammad Ali stories, the one story where Ali saw them in an airport, or Ali saw them on the street and what he did for them. I know I'm that person.

You know, as I was giving a speech to accompany yesterday, Fiserv, you know, the Pfizer forum. And, you know, I was talking to the and we're talking about leadership, and you know, people throw the word leadership around all the time. You know, what a leader what a leader? Well, you know, what a leader is a leader is an influencer, a leader, you actually, you have to give me a reason for wanting to follow you, a leader leaves, if you don't have anybody following you, you're actually not a leader. And just because you make more money than other people, or your title says, you're more important than somebody else, doesn't mean you're a leader. And you have to show that you have to be consistently consistent in what you do. And that's, that was the common denominator with me, with Kobe Bryant, with somebody like Warren Buffett, you know, like some of the most iconic people in the world, you know, have intentional greatness. [PB6] [PB7]

And I'm unwrapped by octagon. And somebody had octagon said, this to me might be the nicest compliment I got. They say it might have been like, eight, nine years ago. I'm 64 years old. And they said they were in a marketing meeting. And somebody said, How is it so I might have been 58 or whatever. Check was it Nancy is an athlete from the 80s name. How many athletes in the 80s are still relevant in 2023 Georgia Barkley naman for me helped me. And they were saying that in And it's like, I thought I had it all in the 80s. I thought I had it all in the 90s I, if so many amazing things have happened to me in my life when I was like this little poor Jewish kid growing up in New York with no food, no father, no heat, no electricity. You know, I was angry. I was tired of feeling less. I was tired of people telling me how stupid and dumb and I'd never make anything of myself and see why are you in the street with black kids? What's wrong with you, Ms. Lieberman? Well, she might need to go see a psychologist. I was getting in fistfights all the time, because I felt so bad. And, you know, I didn't I didn't know if I was gonna kill you. When I didn't know if I was gonna kill me. You know, in the 70s. I was just angry of my circumstance. And here you and I are Paul in 2023. You know, and you you get me polished up as a as a, you know, a Hall of Fame athlete, as a mom, as a coach or commentator in everything. You know, God doesn't make mistakes. I mean, I know that I am the right person at the right time for this assignment, and I'm supposed to change people's lives. I wanted to change people's lives in Sacramento, whether it was DeMarcus whether it was Seth Curry, whether it was Rondo Belinelli Omri Casspi. I really feel like when I was 19, and I sat in the plaza, December of 779. With Ollie when I, the first time I met him, and he was I was, couldn't breathe. I was with Muhammad Ali, and he was nice. He had made you special. And I'm like, you know, God to, you know, everybody. That is a magazine. And yeah, at that point, Paul, he knew I cannot let this girl go my wing on her because I cannot let her out without me. And all these years, he would always said to me, God made you special. You're going to shake up the world. You're an influencer, people are going to follow you people are going to, you know, they're going to listen to you. It's 2023. You know, I just came back, you know, getting the the Martin Luther King, you know, Civil Rights Award, and the NBA and the Grizzlies Monday. Are you kidding me? This is not like, let me tell you how great I am. This is me looking at you going. It was amazing. The gratitude that I have the humility that I have for where I have landed in this world, we're just kind of everybody's just kind of walking through this life. Right. So what are we doing while we're here? Only give us your we takers.

Paul Barnett 22:56

I want to ask you about the work you're doing with your foundation. But I want to I want to just pause for a minute because when I was learning about you, Nancy, one of the amazing things about your story is as you just alluded to, then you span you span America, you span the different groups and societies, the black kids you're playing basketball with in Harlem, the world famous athletes who are coaching now in the big three, your boss's Ice Cube, you know, Muhammad Ali, you were a Jewish kid growing up, you are this representation of America. And I imagine, as you sit there now, this age of 64, this must give you so much great insight into the, into the forces that bind us, but also separate us in society.

Nancy Lieberman 23:46

You know, it's a great, it's a great question and statement, but honestly, I don't wake up thinking and it's Lehman. Clearly I know who I am. When I walk outside of my door, I cannot have road rage. So there's I'd like to, you know, I have to be cognizant of my surroundings. But at the end of the day, my smile, makes you smile. You and I've never met, it shows warmth. It shows caring. It's a community. You know, it's a communication to a stranger. I shake hands. I sign autographs. I love kids. I love being where I am. I really do. Because I mean, at the at the core of who I am, I wake up stupid, like, funny, stupid. My son says I'm not funny. I think I'm hysterical. I know I'm mildly sarcastic. Okay, so here's my minimalist. You know, I used humor. I use a little sarcasm. I'm from New York. It's my birthright. But there's a lot of truth in what I do and what I say and my I want to make other people feel great. I want to show them what the next level is for them. My, you know, am I, you know, lift when you rise, if you go up, take somebody with you. The African American community is very, very important to me. Because why? Because when I was going through all that stuff in my child that I was champion by the black community, I was protected at Rucker Park, I could walk into the park right now in the middle of the night, and I'll be protected. I love my friends there, and I love my family there. And my son, you know, he is the same way. And I'm so proud of TJ, because his friends are all diverse, they don't look like us. There's and we treat everybody, you know, with respect. And we want to and you know, after going through that museum, and seeing the atrocities, it broke my heart. Um, it actually made me angry that people would treat you know, my brothers and my sisters that way, with, you know, hitting them with the water hoses hitting them, you know, sending Dong, although all the African American community wants, all they want is respect, opportunity, diversity, a seat at the table. I mean, they couldn't even go into a restaurant and sit at the table where somebody says you can't sit here, when I saw the signs that said colored bathroom, you know, white bathroom only. So you got to be kidding me. The buses that were were torched? You know, by the KPA K, I have to tell you, I was almost embarrassed as a white person on that tour. It hit me just as the effect. When I went to Israel, and went through the Holocaust Museum, you know, I really believe that the the African American community and the Jewish community should be in lockstep, because those are the two of the greatest atrocities in our lifetime. And slavery started so much earlier. What the black community went through is unfathomable. And, you know, it's important for us to work hard and to have understanding and not just go by, you know, it happened.

So what are we all doing here? Right? We're coaching, we're doing things better. We're elevating people. There's nothing wrong with equality. I want equality. I'm a minority as woman. You know, why is your title nine? There's Title Nine, because it wasn't equality for women, educational opportunities, we just had the 50 year anniversary of Title Nine. And all of this filters into sports. So I mean, I could be on this podcast right now. I'll draw you a play. I'll draw you last second and the game sideline out of bounds full. I'll draw you any play you want. Because I'm a demon for drawing this step up. I love it. But to get human beings to run your stuff, you have to have empathy. [PB8] [PB9]

You have to have understanding. And I want to know Cuttino Mobley. He's one of the finest people I've ever been around. She's a great dad, two miles and Sam. He comes home he cooks for them. She's, you know, he he's just, you know, he could have been a movie star with his looks and how he dresses his fashion. She's a great player was then is now captain of my team, Corey McGinty? You know, Birdman. Quinton Richardson, one of the great professionals, I've had the pleasure of coaching. It's just unbelievable. The people who keep coming into my life and pouring into me, it's 360s not just me into them. I get better being around a Seth Curry or staff. Or you know, Kevin Love or, you know, che, or Lou Dora. I just I fan girls still about some of the people that I mean, because it makes me happy to be around them. 90 Yes.

Paul Barnett 29:39

Can I ask you about two other people you've met that leap? And I think there's me that you may have known a couple more but you know, at least two ex presidents. And I've heard you talk about your meeting with President Obama and how we encourage you to contribute continue to try and make They're not so normal. And African American in the White House of female coaching men how he wanted you to make that normal. But the more I read about you in preparing for today, and the more footage I looked at, the more times I listened to you speak, I'm not sure if, if that is your mission. And so I wanted to ask you, how would you would describe the mission that you're on what gets you out of bed every day and what pushes you forward

Nancy Lieberman 30:27

to be better, to be, you know, to be better at who I am. And to enjoy life. I mean, if you don't enjoy life, people wake up miserable. I have been in sports as a non professional since I was eight. Football was my first sport, then baseball was my best sport. And then I landed on basketball, because that eventually ended up taking you know, took me to the Olympics in high school. And so that was my fast track, you know, really to get out of the hood and to to change my lifestyle direction. And I needed to get out of New York and I needed to get out of Far Rockaway I needed to be around other places. And then, you know, I again, this might sound however it sounds but you know, I'm in October Old Dominion unveiled that statue of myself in front of the practice, right by the arena practice facility. And I was standing there and Jay Harris was you know emceeing my my brother. I love him for ESPN. He's the best. And I'm looking out there. I'm thinking, there's my coach, Mary and Stanley. There's my friend Wendy, Larry, the coach, one of the greatest women's coaches, certainly in Old Dominion history, her and Wendy. I had people Harry and Pamela's on who I lived in their house, when I was 18 years old, Harry became like a dad to me. So they knew me when I was the runt of the litter. They saw they saw me in you know, the, my 30s and 40s. Then I had my teammates there. Then I had friends who I grew up with in Far Rockaway where we were just playing street ball, softball, although, you know, running bases, all those things that we do for activity. And then the Old Dominion women's basketball teams, they're today's team. It didn't have to be there. But they were. And it was just it was just this like pendulum of people on both sides. And we were all commiserating because you don't get a statue because a you, you get a statue because of everybody else. Right?

A champion is, is the one who lifts everybody else on their shoulders. It's not the opposite. I'm nothing without my teammates. I'm nothing without players. Players decide probability and outcome. You know, I don't shoot. Like, you know, I'm not winning games in the Big Three contino contino hit the game winning baskets a couple of years ago when we won the championship, not me. But my job is to celebrate people not tolerate people. And I think so many people are too busy nitpicking at people. Who cares? I mean, you know, we're all you know, we're all flawed. But what can we do to empower people? And that's what I try to do when I get out of bed every day. It starts in my house, it starts with my son. It starts you know, it's start out with my dogs. I love on my dogs. I don't kick my dogs. They're hungry. I don't go sorry. Wait, no, I go feed my dogs. And, you know, a lot of my days is built on on humor. You know, I mean, we all have tough days. I mean, I just lost my mom. And, you know, the end of May. That's where I left the NBA. You know, because I had to make a life choice. And it was just me and Becky. And I thought, man, there's a lot of responsibility here for her and for me, but at the end of the day, right, we say it's his faith. It's family. Its job. That man when you get to the NBA, that's pretty big stuff for chick. And I went to velocidade. And I said, I have to be with my mom. Not knowing if I would ever get a job again. I don't know. And, you know, here I am. You know, I got covered by cube, picked up the phone and said, Hey, I heard about your mom. I hope she's okay. You sure would love for you to be you know, I as a head coach in the big three, you know, the phraseology, we would love for you to be the first female head coach at a men's professional basketball league. And I remember him also saying to me, and you can tell your agent, you'll be the highest paid coach you'll make with Dr. Jay makes Michael Cooper, George Gervin, Rick, my horn, Rick Berry, you know, Gary Payton, you'll make what they make was like, okay. It's pretty cool, right? When you have somebody like that, that you're working for? I don't know if I'll get another chance in the NBA. I hope so. You know, I mean, people are, we're all in our own world. So you know, their NBA coaches, they don't know why I left. I'm sure. They don't know if I got fired. They don't know if I quit because I couldn't take it. No. And I didn't get fired. And I'm very thankful to Vlad ad bots and pacia Strauch event for their kindness and support, and Dave Jaeger, for understanding I needed to be with my mom. So who knows what will happen?

Paul Barnett 36:15

Who knows? Nancy, I'd want to ask you, though, you you've alluded to something before, when you were talking, you allude to it in your TED talk as well. And you spoke a little bit about it earlier. And you said I didn't know if I was going to be alive or not. It was a bit of a small comment that I wanted to ask you about mind monsters I think you call them and what you've learned about managing them yourself, but also helping all these young people that you've been leading that you've been coaching. Deal with their own mind monsters.

Nancy Lieberman 36:54

I believe that and I know this Yeah, I don't believe I know, this is a fact I have friends who it's it's like this, I can pass the ball. You can get stolen, coaching get mad at me, they can take me out of the game, somebody can come in, somebody can play better than me, I might never get to play, I might get traded, I might get cut. In my mind. That's mine monsters. I do not think like that. Maybe I think a lot like a guy. I let a lot a lot of stuff roll off my back. And I don't have like 5000s You know, thoughts. I know. You know, like, I used to tell some of my players by the time you're sitting there thinking about what to do the plays not there any longer. And you know, you got it, you got to don't play the play, play the game, you got to feel the game, you got to see the game, you've got to react to the game. And you the same thing in life. And so that's why I believe it's so important to have good self esteem and, you know, accountability. To understand you have to be strong. And it all goes back to one thing. You have to love yourself. [PB10] [PB11]

And that is what I didn't do. When I was younger. I didn't love myself because I was broken. And I was hiding behind as a young person, Nancy Lieberman, the basketball player who everybody applauded and patted me on the back and told me how great I was. But, you know, in the dark, it was dark. I didn't know if I was like I said, going to kill you. I didn't know if I was gonna kill me. I was so unhappy. I couldn't see a path to happiness. Because of my circumstances. And I didn't have the people around me think about it. You're a kid from the 60s and 70s You know, I'm a tomboy on this. I'm that I got so tired of the Nancy camp moments. It's you can't do that. Nancy, you'll never make that, Nancy, that's not going to happen for you. And see, that doesn't happen for little girls. You know, and I think one of the greatest things that ever happened to me was my relationship, you know, with God. I mean, my family's Jewish. I'll always be Jewish, but I do. I do believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I do. I mean, I'm pretty set in my backcourt I've got Jesus and Moses. So they're not being traded anytime soon. I'm gonna build around them. But that is what gives me my peace. And, you know, then the ALI factor where Ali knew this. And, you know, the greatest love of all I decided long ago never to walk in anyone shadow. If I fail if I succeed, at least I'll live as I believe no matter what they take from me. It and take away my dignity. Because the greatest love of all is inside of me. He knew that I did not love me. How can you love somebody else if you do not love you? That was the secret to my, you know, ever evolution. He taught me to love me. And that's what I try to do with people. You know, I try to get people to love themselves and to respect themselves and to take care of themselves. I'm a mom, my job is to take care of my son, and it was to take care of my husband and take care of people around me. That's what I do on the regular. I have learned to take care of me too. It's not selfish. It's it's preservation. And so when I'm around, you know, around my Sayers, I'm always inquisitive. I ask questions. I'm not a hotline, one 800 Call Nancy. I'm not a hotline. But I'm aware enough to look at a player in practice. You know, I can remember seeing Ben Macklemore. Such a tremendous player, beautiful smile. There were days he was in, practice stretching, and he looked like he was so sad. I want to sit down on the floor next to him and go, Ben, you have the most beautiful smile. Is there something wrong? Do you want to talk? If you do, I'm here. Anytime, Londo. Tell me about peer love to know more about your kiddos DeMarcus. Tell me about your Grandma, tell me about Mom. How easy is that? I mean, how easy is that? You know, to be able, you know, to just help somebody and see if they're okay. And check on them. And just help them, you know, get through whatever, you know, that moment is that they're dealing with right now. That's how I coach. That's how I manage. That's how I work. That's how I parent. And I will say it again, I am so far from perfect. But when I'm having a really crappy day, I think I tried to do something for somebody else. So it takes the emphasis off of me. Where I'm like, God just helped me here. I'm really struggling today. And, you know, I just put myself out there. I don't worry about oh my gosh, you know, somebody's gonna think I'm not super human. This is how I live my life.

Paul Barnett 42:49

Nancy, I read your book from 2010. You preparing to today, the books called playbook for success. And what caught my eye was actually I lived in the Czech Republic for eight years. And on the inner flap of the book, there is a quote from the amazing Martina Navratilova, of course, one of the most famous checks in modern times. And her quote was this caught my eye it says Nancy's combination of acute street smarts, phenomenal athletic ability, and straight up business acumen makes for a great how to guide for all business women. Now I you talked about earlier, the fact that you've been speaking to buyers, so I know that you also overlap the corporate world. And I know you're also very passionate about equality in all its different shapes and sizes. But when you do speak to women today about progressing in the corporate world, what are the top piece of pieces of advice you give them?

Nancy Lieberman 43:48

Well, it's, you know, we're certainly growing. We're growing in corporate America, we have more female CEOs and we've ever had, or in history. Men want to learn, you know, I don't think they sit there and go, No, you know what, I'm not going to work for you. It's a new day and age, and it's collaborative. And I tell women that first and foremost, be prepared, be ready for your moment. We talked about Communication 360 Communication, people in the workplace want to be heard. And, you know, even even at home with my son. I can't get well, TJ this is what you have to do before you tell me what you think. Because if somebody feels that their voice is important, they're going to come to work the next day, because they're going to think they can be an influence and help to the company. Just because you know you're the leader, doesn't mean you can't take in as I'm saying information. So, you know, those are the things that I talked to them about. You have to be prepared for your moment. You can't be Free to respect everybody fair, nobody, you know, I wouldn't be in, I certainly would learn a little bit of sports, because, you know, I'm on quite a few boards, and a lot of them the boards, you know, or have men. And before we get things going, you know, you could be talking about, you know, the Australian Open and you know, Nidalee losing or getting hurt, or, you know, you talk about the New York Yankees, this or that. And now, again, you're kind of cutting through the clutter, and you're finding allies, so important have allies in, you know, that those friendships, you don't have to be like, you know, besties with everybody, but, I mean, don't you want to? Don't you want to work with people you actually like, as opposed to people you don't like? You know, it makes coming to work so much easier. While we're grinding. And while we're trying to be great while we're trying to, you know, you know, bring our stock up, or we're trying to, you know, make inroads in an industry or, you know, grow women in technology we're in in 2013. Today, it's grown 27% Women in Technology. That was an area right.

Girls don't like math and science. Who started that rumor. I don't know who started that rumor. When I was a kid. What do we like knitting? I mean, we were being you know, pigeon holed. Back when I was in ps1, oh, four. I never thought about it. But I'd like to go back and find out that person who told me girl something like math and science? Or do you like math, I do like science. And, you know, so those are the things we have to continue in the leadership capacities to be CEOs. And you have to know, you also have to be able to not micromanage everything, give people a chance to do their thing. And if they don't do it, and it's not productive, you know, I mean, I looked at the sports pages today, and I saw that NFL coaches being let go. Offensive coordinators, offensive coordinators, apparently somebody didn't think they did their job. It's gonna happen.[PB12]

Paul Barnett 47:18

Nancy, you've talked about gratitude. And I know that one of the things that you're very passionate about is the Nancy Lieberman foundation that has a mentor program called each one teach one. I'd really love to know a little bit more about it, and maybe even a story that illustrates the change you're hoping to make in the world.

Nancy Lieberman 47:37

Well, next Lehman Charities is a children's charity. And you know, in 1974, I was 15 years old, and I made a USA tryout. When I came home, I was so excited. And I said, Mama mind, I can leave this. I just made this USA tryout at Queens College. And I'm going to Albuquerque, New Mexico for the next stage of the tryouts. And she goes Nancy, like how you are? I can't even put food on the table. How am I going to fly you to Albuquerque, New Mexico. So Barbara saccharides my high school assistant principal took a can of corn. She opened it she cleaned it took the label off and then she put an envelope. And on it she hand wrote we're endeavoring to raise $300 to send Nancy Lieberman to the USA tryouts. That was it. taped it on this Can I actually have the Canva array of 74. This can win door to door all of the Far Rockaway. And people put change five ones 10s I don't even know who they put money in there. Strangers changed my life. And I go to Albuquerque, make that trial, get put in the big camp with all the all Americans, the admires the Pat summits, UC Harris's Hall of Famers. And I look back, you know, once I turned professional, I thought there's a lot of nancies out there that don't have the wherewithal. So the Nissim charities like our pillars. We do dream courts. And dream court. It was my it was my dream to be on a court because that court saved me. And once I was in the court, I felt empowered and strong and protected, and free, and I could breathe. And everybody on that court, it was a communal court. It was black, white, young, old girl, boy, you know, a Latino, Asian didn't matter. It was a safe haven. So I said, Let's build these dream courts. So we started building these Supreme Courts. As of today, we have 117 dream ports open over 5.1 million kids a year on these courts, and they become pop up classrooms. Because you know, Nancy, the best 2.3 student at Old Dominion, I'm sure in history. I didn't want to raise my hand, because I didn't want to be wrong, because if I was wrong, people might laugh at me that I get into another fistfight. I just could not do that anymore. So when I was on a court, I felt free. I could try things I could ask questions. I never worried about being right or wrong. So I realized everybody learns differently. Then we have STEM. We have a financial literacy, we have kids in cops programs, we have a civic engagement, and we have career readiness. And we have these you know, curriculums that we give to the Boys and Girls Clubs, to the park and rec to the girls and wherever we give these dream courts and we give them we just finished doing it in 20. In 2022, we did three Dream Course for Vanessa Bryant we did the Kobe Gigi court in Anaheim where their love story started across some Disney then we did to in Lower Merion PA, we're Kobe grew up actually went to his childhood house. I mean, it's tragic, but at least their legacy when kids come on these courts, we've we've done courts for ice cube and Billy Crystal and you don't have to be a celebrity to have a court, we'll put these anywhere in communities that need it. We've sent 90 high school seniors to college, and we just don't like pay the bursaries office. We we communicate with the kids, they have to give us you know, four hours each semester they shadow first responders, we can help them with, with resumes, with internships with paid jobs, when they come out, we bring them back to dream ball the next. You know, a couple years later, they get to speak to the next graduating class of kids who get scholarships. You know, we've pivoted a little bit and now kids are going to HBCUs we have a racial and social justice lecture series where we go to four HBCU colleges and we go to four HBCU high schools and we we talk it out. And the kids remember that 360 communication, we can't be on the stage is going this is how it is No, tell us talk to us. What's on your mind. So we you know, it's been so amazing, you know, education, health, mental health. You know, social, racial justice, multicultural, you know, programming. I'm telling you all these things, you know, we raise millions and millions of don't, you know, we've donated over $20 million since 1980. That wasn't my game plan. It also many of these things have organically happened. And I'm so proud. It's sometimes I scratch my head. I'm like, This is crazy.

Paul Barnett 53:36

90, a lot like to finish with one last question if I could. Now you say that your legacy is what you do for other people. And in the distant, distant future, long into the future, by the sounds of it. When you do finish coaching. If we go back and we ask these people, what do you do for them? What do you hope they say?

Nancy Lieberman 54:01

I hope people say that I was fair but firm. And I made them better. And it was a lot of humor, truth and some sarcasm. But you know, I just hope I've affected people's lives in a in a positive way. And they knew that I cared.[PB13]

Paul Barnett 54:23

I think positive energy in affecting people's lives in a positive way and showing them you care is it's a great way to finish. Nancy. It's been a thrill for me spending an hour with you today. It's a great little jolt of energy before I begin my weekend here in Australia, and I want to thank you so much for your time. My pleasure.

Nancy Lieberman 54:43

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. I know

Paul Barnett 54:47

by Nancy, you're great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a lovely lovely day sees me. Thank you. Take care, Nancy. Bye bye.