Nell Fortner edit
Tue, Jul 02, 2024 6:15AM • 35:36
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, coaching, team, playing, talk, players, day, auburn, olympic team, paul, basketball, win, knew, question, sports, kids, happy, job, people, competitive
SPEAKERS
Nell Fortner, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Nell Fortner, Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Nell Fortner 00:06
Thank you, Paul. I'm happy to be here now
Paul Barnett 00:10
something really easy to get us going. Can you tell us where you are in the world and what you've been up to so far today? Yeah,
Nell Fortner 00:16
absolutely. I live in Atlanta, Georgia, and I am the head women's basketball coach at Georgia Tech, which is in the ACC conference here the Atlantic Coast Conference, and I'm going into my fifth season here at Georgia Tech. Now, I've coached for a long, long time, but right here, I'm heading into my fifth season. Here
Paul Barnett 00:40
we're going to get in to the long arc of your career, and it goes well. It comes to Sydney at one point, which we'll talk about as well. But Nell, could I start by name dropping. There's a few great coaches I found that you've had connection with while I was researching preparing today, Jodie Conrad, Gary Blair, Lynn Dunn, and, of course, Leon barmore, yeah, and there's we were talking about Pat Summitt, and I'm sure there's many, many others, but I wanted to ask Nell, you've seen some great ones up close. What do you think the Great Ones do differently that separates them from the rest?
Nell Fortner 01:16
Yeah, that's a great question, because every one of them are different in certain ways, but then yet, they're all the same in one way, and that is, they're highly competitive. They want to win. They're not doing this just to, you know, just for the fun of it. Although it is fun, I think that every one of them would say they you know, they have fun and enjoy it, but they're highly competitive. They're very detail oriented. They want things when they know what they want to see on the court. They're demanding in that regard, and hold kids accountable. So I think that those are things that can bring you success, even if you don't have the highest talented kids, but being consistent in those behaviors, I think they all have in common.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 02:09
Now, can I pick up on competitiveness for a minute? Because I and I asked this question. The context is, I'm a father of of two daughters. When the young women that you coach come to Georgia Tech. Do you have to spend time normalizing competition, or do people come jam packed, ready to compete?
Nell Fortner 02:30
Well, kids are different. You know, they all, they're they are all a bit different, and they bring a little bit of different spice to the team, some you have to push a little harder, or some you have to or some you wish they were a little bit more competitive. They might just enjoy being, you know, playing hard or whatever. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty of having to win a game, sometimes you have to really help them understand what that looks like and feels like, and how the consistent work every day has to happen in order to get the win. I'm a very competitive person, and sometimes I can, I might get it out of whack a little bit as far as how I try to get my point across, but at the end of the day, you want to win. This is what we do. We compete. You want to win everything you do. So sometimes it takes a little more time to get a team really dialed into, hey, this is really important so and holding them accountable to everything, everything that needs to be done to win.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 03:39
Now you grew up in Mississippi, and then your family moved to Texas. Now I know that this was a big turning point in your life. Could you tell us how it influenced you?
Nell Fortner 03:49
Yeah, it really was. Because Paul, you know, I'm on the older side. I'm not the you know, I'm a little bit older. So when I was coming up and growing up in Mississippi, we didn't have team sports in school. So I was playing basketball in my driveway. I was playing tennis. I was a competitive swimmer, but those were things that you did in the summertime at a club, at a you know, it wasn't a competitive there wasn't, you weren't in school playing these sports if you were a girl. Now, boys had everything but and then in 1972 Title Nine came into effect in the USA, which made it mandatory for public schools to have sports for girls. Well, in Mississippi, it took them a while to enact that, but when I was in the 10th grade, we moved to Texas, and they had already enacted it in all their high schools. Well, I was in heaven, because now I'm playing volleyball, basketball, swimming, golf, tennis, track and field. I'm doing it all because I I was a pretty good athlete, and I love doing everything. So it changed my life in regard. Large to now I'm a team sport athlete. I'm being coached by powerful women. I was fortunate to have two strong women coaches in high school, and they taught me. They just they helped nurture me into the athlete that I could be. And then I received a scholarship to go play at the University of Texas, and that that was huge. I mean, they were just starting to do that. So to be able to go play volleyball and basketball on a scholarship for Jody Conrad. I mean, are you kidding me? I mean, it's like the steps were just all falling into place after, you know, we moved to Texas, so extremely fortunate for that move, and we'll be forever grateful for it.
Paul Barnett 05:47
So you went from this great experience as a player now and then you take up coaching, and there was 10 years as an assistant coach at college level before you got the job at Purdue, yeah. What do you remember surprising you most when you first became a head coach?
Nell Fortner 06:08
You know, I think the amount of real, really, I loved it from day from day one. I loved being a head coach, because I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back for a minute, because before I got that head job at Purdue, I was fortunate enough to work with Tara VanDerveer, who was the 96 Olympic coach. I was one of her assistant coaches that trained that team for a full year. We just went, we traveled the world, training that team to get ready for the 96 Olympics. You talk about a phenomenal experience that was, that was like, that was my entry into USA basketball. You know, that was, and I had never even been out of the country. Hey, we're flying off to Lithuania and going to Italy and going to Poland and, you know, Czech Republic. And I never even been in a car longer than six hours, you know. And to work with Tara, who I did not know. She hired me because foo talking to coaching peers, they said, hey, you need to check out now. I think she'd be good for you. And it was great. I had a great time, but it also gave me the confidence that I knew I could be a head coach. It I knew that I could be an Olympic coach, if that's what was going to happen for me, that that year gave me a tremendous amount of confidence. So when I went to Purdue, I was ready. I mean, I was I was more than ready. And so and loved my experience at Purdue, it lasted for a year, and we won. We won big there, but then USA Basketball came back and said, Hey, you want to be the Olympic coach, like, what? So, yeah, it was. It was kind of a whirlwind, but it was, it was an awesome whirlwind.
Paul Barnett 08:01
So that whirlwind takes you to Sydney, and as I said to you, up there, I was in the audience that day, my wife and I went to everything that was on during those Olympics, and I watched your team play, and there was a young Dawn Staley in that team, and I remember a lady called Katie Smith, and of course, that team won the gold medal, yeah. And it wasn't even a close game, but what I want to ask you was, when you were coaching team USA, it was your dream. You always said it it was your dream to coach that team, and you reached that dream at such a young age, and I'm wondering what happened afterwards. How did you realign and create a new dream to propel you forward?
Nell Fortner 08:42
Yeah, that's a that's a really good question, because, you know, when you're that young, you really there's still so much that you need to learn. You know there's you still have a lot of coaching growth to do. You still have a lot of of just experiences that you need to experience to become a seasoned coach. So I had the experience with the Olympic team, and it was phenomenal. And I was so fortunate to have it, but I that was where I cut my teeth. I mean, let's face it, I mean, but cut my teeth with a bunch of players who were highly motivated to win everything they did, whether it was basketball or, you know, chilly wings, they were really competitive card players, you know, I mean, there it was. Everything was a competition, and it was every day. So I cut my teeth on that, and it was a really cool thing to do with a with a bunch of players that weren't that much younger than me, but it was we. The one goal was we were all highly competitive, and we all wanted that gold medal, and there was, you know, nothing that was going to stop us. The tough thing Paul was that the pressure that I felt for the. It for being the head coach, because the Olympics were in Sydney, they were the second best team in the world. We're going to go play on their home court to win a gold medal. That was a lot of pressure for me, but I had a very experienced group of players who wanted nothing more than to continue winning gold medals. So they were willing to do sacrifice playing time. So, you know, whatever the sacrifice was, they wanted that gold medal. So I learned really, really early in my career, when you can really show the goal, when the goal becomes the thing. Focusing a team becomes much easier. So that is a challenge for me now as a head coach, is the goal important to everyone, from top to bottom, so you can everybody's putting their best foot forward every day.[PB3] That's a real challenge for coaches today, for sure. I know it's kind of all over the place with that answer, but it was Yeah, so that, anyway, winning the gold medal phenomenal on Australia's home court. Double it by 100,000
Paul Barnett 11:17
I can understand that. Nell and you've got you talked about the competitive nature of some of the great coaches earlier on. And I think that this example of focusing a competitive group with a gold medal is is probably would have been something that would have been quite fascinating to see unfold. But I'm just, I'd like to ask the question again, if I could, because I am curious. You were what you said. I think you were 40 years old in 2000 it's very young to achieve your dream job.
Nell Fortner 11:47
Yeah, I'm
Paul Barnett 11:48
wondering what you did afterwards, yeah, sort of realign yourself and establish new goals and a new pathway for yourself.
Nell Fortner 11:56
Yeah, I, you know, before we went to Australia, I had been because I knew once the Olympic job was over, I was going to have to get a job. And so the Indiana Fever were a new expansion team in the WNBA. I had coached at Purdue, which was an hour up the road from Indianapolis, and so they hired me to be their coach. And so I had that job waiting for me when the Olympics were over, and that was a lot of security for me, and I thought that that was the perfect time to go coach the pros, because I was just been coaching pros for three years on this Olympic team. But you know, Paul, it wasn't for me coaching the Olympic team with with highly competitive athletes that were very laser focused on what we were doing was different than coaching the pros who were not as laser focused, and we're not as you know, I that was not as enjoyable for me, and I don't think it was the Best job for for me and what I brought to the table as a coach, I understand the game. I can coach the game. I know it on both ends of the floor, but I think one of my strengths that was really carried over for the Olympic team was I'm personable, I have energy, I'm enthusiastic. I'm going to make you feel good about yourself. I'm going to coach you, but I'm going to, I'm going to, I want to build you up. I want you to be highly confident. And the pros aren't always like that. They don't really want that relationship with a coach. They Don't Want You really knowing their business. And so after three years at Indiana, it wasn't for me, and I had to now I'm having to readjust. Now I'm having to go, Okay, let me get back to my comfort zone, and that's college, because you're you can really make a difference in a kid's life in college, not just as a player, but as a person. So readjusting for me came after I tried the pros coaching, the Indiana Fever, and felt so much more comfortable when I got back into the coach, into the college world at Auburn, which is in Auburn, Alabama. And then I felt like I was back at home. You know, in my profession,
Paul Barnett 14:24
can I pick up on this idea of positivity? You talk about it a lot in your interviews. You describe yourself as an encourager, yeah. And I wanted to sort of look at it from another angle, if I could now, and I wanted to ask you what you've learned about being perhaps too positive and perhaps not becoming, becoming a cheerleader and perhaps not challenging people enough.
Nell Fortner 14:48
Yeah, it's, um, you know, I have had to sit with that at times and make sure I wasn't it's too much, because that can be looked at as soft. Oh, she's soft. She's. And get on them enough or whatever. But I know, I don't think it's ever been a problem for me, but I do have to, at times, reel that, that real, reel that back in and get a little tougher, a little more. And it might be even when I say tougher, it could be more of just making sure you're consistent with holding kids accountable, making sure you're consistent with getting the things done that have to be done at the level they have to be done at. So at times, I do have to check myself, you know, and make sure that I'm because it's not, it's not fair to the kid if I'm not holding them accountable and making them do things at the level they're supposed to, it's not good for them. So, but I think I've I understand that it hasn't been something that's been a problem. I've just had to recognize it and just kind of check myself and get back to where I needed to[PB4]
Paul Barnett 16:00
go, No, there'll be a lot of people listening who are in the same place. I mean, whether it's, you know, times are tough, we've just got out of the pandemic, and there's this, there's this quandary, you know, do you push and challenge people, or do you sort of create more of a softer environment for them? So I think it's a very, very very topical question for all of us. You said that you check yourself any is there any routines you use, any small things or processes you go through to do that? No,
Nell Fortner 16:31
you know, not really. I can answer that pretty quickly, no, but there is self, self talk, you know, like whether it's when I'm planning practice or whether I'm watching film, and I know I'm going to have to sit down and watch that film with the team, and how am I going to say this? How do I want to present this and get this message across? Because it's it's so important. You know, one of the things that I've learned is whatever you say first, like, if I'm going to sit down and watch film with a kid or with a team, whatever I present first is the thing that's going to stick the longest. If you have a 45 minute film session, the thing you're going to cover at the end, they're not going to remember the things you recover at you cover at the beginning, they tend to remember sticks longer. And so I learned that when it comes to when I need to send a message, whether it's the intensity we have to pick up, whether it's really making sure that I'm holding a kid accountable to something, I mean, you have to, that's the hardest thing, Paul, is the account of beholding kids accountable, because it's tiring. It's, you know, it's like, over and over every day you're saying the same thing, but you have to do it one day, it's going to stick. [PB5]
So I think that's, I don't know, I hope I've answered the question. I probably went around the wheelhouse on that one, but I really I have to self talk myself to make sure I'm saying the right things at the right time, the right way. And that might sound like a lot, but kids today are different. They ingest information different. They're they hear you different because primarily they get so much of their information on their phone and on Twitter and Instagram and Tiktok, and so when they're listening to you and trying to make that eye contact with you and ingest it, you have to make sure they hear it, you know, and and you hold them accountable to your expectation of what you've just told them you're expecting.
Paul Barnett 18:45
Now I've got this interesting quote from you. I'd like to read it before I ask the question. You say my coaching philosophy is bring your best attitude and your work ethic every day you have control over both of those things. The first part of this sentence I wanted to ask you about, and it's this attitudes area, yeah, when people's attitude isn't what you or the team expect. In fact, you talked a little bit about that when comparing College and the pros, when that, when that attitude's Not there, what advice do you have for other leaders on working with people to alter it? I'm
Nell Fortner 19:20
going to be really honest with you, that's a hard one when you get, when you get a kid that has, and I'm just going to say, a bad attitude, one that is defensive, one that is jealous, one that is maybe has maybe a little bully in it, if somebody's better than them so they want to bully them. It is bad. It is disruptive. It's very disruptive. And it's it's very hard to change a kid that has an attitude that is like that. You can talk to him about it. You can point things out about it. You can hold them accountable to. Certain things you want them to do on the floor in a certain way, it's very hard to change a kid's attitude. And a bad attitude can really damage and ruin a team. You know, it's like that old adage, one bad apple, you know, spoils a whole bunch. And it's, it's very true, and it's happened to me in my career, and it's a really uncomfortable, and not fun thing to deal with, but you have to deal with it and and however you got to figure it out. They either have to go, or they've got to change, or you have to try to manage it. And it's extremely hard to manage, because they are going to affect other other players on your team. So that's, that's a tough one, Paul, that is, but I've gotten to the point where I'll try to manage it, and when it doesn't work, they got to go, I'm not going to sacrifice my team for that. And that's, that's a tough one. It's really hard. So you, you try not to make the mistake of getting people on your team like that, you know, but sometimes you get fooled, and they get there, and then you have to deal with it.
Paul Barnett 21:11
So now Indiana to Auburn, and when you stopped at Auburn, when you stopped coaching, you said you were tired and you needed a break, so you took up a role as an analyst with ESPN, and I know you got to watch hundreds and hundreds of games which have gone on to help you in your return to coaching. But what I wanted to ask you was based on your experience through that orb and change, what do you do differently now to ensure that you maintain and renew your energy?
Nell Fortner 21:40
You know it ever since I I've always wanted to coach because of the kids, the players, uh, from day one, from when I was an athlete, and the coaches that were coaching me, I was like, I want to be like them. I want to be like Jody. I want to be like, you know, my coaches who coach me. I loved it. I just, I love the whole atmosphere. I loved everything about I love being a player. I loved watching my coaches coach, learning from them. And then when I got to coach, I was like, This is phenomenal. The energy about it, everything about competition, the practice. I loved everything about it, so I don't have to do anything. Paul, I wake up in the morning and I love what I do. I'm just, I'm happy to I'm still coaching, and I feel so fortunate, you know? I mean, I have a bunch of great kids. I love my staff. They're phenomenal. So it's just a fun atmosphere to be in, and it's been the way I've just grown up my whole life, sports has been incredibly important. It brings me joy, and I just want, now, you know, as a coach, I just want to bring joy to other kids and help them be great. I want them all to be great and accomplish every all their dreams. It makes that makes me happy. Well,[PB6]
Paul Barnett 22:58
can I ask you about that? Then I mean you, you consistently describe yourself as a people person. You clearly love your job. I can see in the background so many trophies and old basketballs and obviously souvenirs from your many travels. But as you've gone on and you've matured and you've got better as a coach and and more experienced as a leader, what have you learned about that space between you and the people you lead.
Nell Fortner 23:30
Well, I just know this fall, I'm going to be me every day. I'm gonna I'm gonna be me, and however I can help someone, I'm gonna try to do that by just being me. We can choose to be happy, we can choose to be sad, we can choose to be mad. We can choose a good attitude, a bad attitude. We can choose to be helpful, encouraging, or we can be a not a very nice person. I've, I've just been fortunate that I've always wanted to be happy, and I wanted to for people to do well, and I want to help them do that, so that there is this the space between me and anybody else I'm I'm going to cover there is no space, because if you're in my space, I'm gonna, you're gonna feel it. You're gonna, you're gonna feel it. If you're in my space, you're gonna feel me there and and that's the only way I know how to do it. So you know, I'm gonna get up in the morning for 6am practice, and I'm gonna walk in that gym, just like I do every day, I'm going to have that energy, because they're going to be one, you know, they're going to be tired and whatever, but nope, boom, let's go. And so that's, that's the only way I know how to do it. There's tons of better coaches than me. There's X's and O's and all the there's tons of better. Coaches than me, but I don't know if there's a better coach than me when it comes to energy and giving and do it. You know, it just is what it is. You bring what you've got, and I think I bring that pretty good,[PB7]
Paul Barnett 25:16
definitely. You definitely do now I'm feeling it today on this interview. Can I take it now to march 2021, I think you know what I'm going to ask you about, and it's the photo of the weights room at the NCAA tournament. Viral. I remember seeing this in my feed, actually. So we're two years on. Well, actually, firstly, if you could tell us about that photo. But then the question is, we're two years on now, and are we seeing the change that you expect when it comes to women's sports being considered a forethought, not an afterthought?
Nell Fortner 25:53
Yeah, you know, nothing changes fast when it comes to trying to get equality. You know, you fight the good fight to try to get equality. It was the lack of equality between the men's NCAA Tournament and the women's NCAA Tournament was just boy laid out bare during 2021 but it had been that way from day one, we no one knew it to the extent when it came to the NCAA tournament, until covid bared its soul. We, because it had to. We were all, you know, all in one place. And it was shocking, really, to the level of, I don't know when I of inequality when it came to those two tournaments. So when Sedona prince, the player from Oregon, took the picture of the weight room and was really just kind of joking about it, like, look, this is what we've got, and the guys that sent us their picture of their weight room, and it just blew up. I don't think anybody knew that that was going to to hit like it hit. You know, nobody knew that that was even happening. And we never would have known, had it not been from covid. Think about that. We would have never known that the guys got all this stuff in their tournament. We got this we would have never known that. So now, did it just change instantly? No, we still have a long way to go when it comes to equality between men and women's athletics. Period, we're still battling for equality at the collegiate level, and I'm sure we'll continue to battle it for years, and you know, years and years more. Things aren't always can. Things can't always be equal, but they can be fair. And I think that is what we battle for on a daily basis. Is we at least wanted to be fair? We don't, you know, we might not have the budgets that the men have, or because, on the whole, men's football brings in a lot of money. Men's Basketball has the potential to bring in a lot of money at the collegiate level. Women's Basketball just isn't there yet. Maybe UConn does maybe stand for, not Stanford, I don't know, Oregon or you know a school that might draw Iowa now with Caitlin Clark, LSU. Now that you know they might, they're bringing in more money, but you at least want to be treated fairly and and have the gym space, have the travel opportunities, have the hotel and we do? Is it everything the men have no? Is it the same budget? No, but it at least has given us a platform to continue to build on, to make sure that we are rising to continuing to rise to make it equal. But we're not there yet. We're not
Paul Barnett 29:09
Nelly. If I could take you back and introduce you to that young girl who wanted to be a vet, knowing what you know now, what would you say to her,
Nell Fortner 29:22
um, I think the most important thing we can give our young people, or to that young person I was, is that we believe in them. Go and do what you want to do. What makes you happy, what is your passion? And being a vet was my passion for a long time, until I moved to Texas and was put into a situation where I could play those team sports and to be around strong women coaching me all of a sudden, being a vet. No, I'm just going to have a bunch of dogs and cats, but I'm going to be a coach. I. Yeah, I'm not going to be a vet because it was no longer my passion, because I didn't have team sports. When I wanted to be a vet, I didn't have that other opportunity, but when I got that other opportunity, that was it. I knew that's exactly what I wanted to be. So I would just make sure, for any young person, that you follow your passion. You go, Do what makes you happy, and parents will go, Oh, we're not going to make enough money. You're going to make plenty of money if you're doing exactly what you want to do. If you're happy doing it and it drives you every day and you wake up excited about it, you're going to be fulfilled. So that would be my my advice to to that young person that I was[PB8]
Paul Barnett 30:46
now, you played the guitar and the piano. I know music's an important part of your life. Is there a piece of music that tells us a little bit more about who you are away from the court,
Nell Fortner 30:57
um, I don't think there's a certain piece of music. I like all genres of music, and I enjoy playing music on my guitar and piano. I play by ear, so I don't read music, so I write my own music, so I don't perform for anybody. It's just
Paul Barnett 31:19
like, there, no, that was my next question.
Nell Fortner 31:21
Yeah, I'm not going to get up and go get my guitar, no, um, but it's a form of therapy for me, because I like being able to hear, I can hear things in my head, and to be able to put it to music is so exciting. It's so much fun. Um, so, I mean, really, if, if I hadn't gotten into sports, honestly, Paul, I'd be a rock and roll star. That's what I would have done. I would have gone and I would have gone that rat. I would have been an entertainer. I think
Paul Barnett 31:51
one of your early mentors was Karen Chisholm, and I know that these days you're a mentor as well. I'm wondering what you've learned about a good mentor, mentee relationship. Yeah,
Nell Fortner 32:02
Karen. Karen was a great mentor for me. She she was the ideal coach for me because she is also one that has the energy and the passion and the love for what she does and just was a phenomenal teacher. She taught me the sport of volleyball. I didn't know anything about volleyball when I started playing it. She taught me, and I picked it up really fast, and she was, she was a great encourager, but she was tough. And that's where, that's when I fell in love with coaching, because she was fun, she had the energy, she was fun, but she was tough. Like, I couldn't get away with anything, you know, like she was tough and and we were successful. And so that was my first look inside into a strong, encouraging, fun, strong woman. And I was like, man, and then when I met Jody, and then when I'm like, Okay, this is exactly what I want to do. And it I knew that there was no doubt in my mind, yeah,
Paul Barnett 33:08
it's getting late there Nell, so perhaps just one final question, if I could. And when you were asked about the legacy you want to leave as a coach, he said, You want to be a difference maker in this profession on a really high level and in a really positive way. So to finish with, I'd like you, I'd like to ask you if you could tell us a little bit more about how you hope the difference is described by the people that you've led.
Nell Fortner 33:35
Like, I'll give you an example. Like the there's a player in the WNBA. Her name is Deanna Bonner. She plays for the Connecticut son. Now she's had a long career. I recruited her to Auburn, coached her at Auburn, six, four, as skinny as my finger. Just nobody thought she would be as successful as she's been, because she's durable, she's she works hard, she's competitive and and just had a great career at Auburn, and is still in the WNBA is still just playing so well. She's had twins. She still looks great. I mean, it's just like she's just so strong. But whenever I see her, or whenever I talk to her, and she tells me things about what I did for her, or how I helped her through this, or how I it. That's it. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, she and there's many more like her. When you get players come who come back, or they hit you with a text, or they call you or whatever, or and say thank you for this, or helping me through that, or making me stronger in this area, that's that's what it's at the end of the day. That's what it's all about. I mean, because now you've helped someone go on and be great themselves. And it doesn't matter to me if they're a housewife. If a doctor working at at a store, I don't care if they're happy and and they're living a good life, then that makes me happy. That's what I mean by a high level. It's that's what I mean.[PB9]
Paul Barnett 35:13
I think happiness and living it at a high level is a pretty good place to finish. So Nell, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate you staying up for this interview. I know that the season's about to get underway, and I wish you all the best for the year ahead.
Nell Fortner 35:30
Thank you very much, Paul. I enjoyed it. You have a great rest of your day. You.