Noeline Taurua edit
Thu, Aug 10, 2023 6:25PM • 38:07
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, important, suppose, talk, athletes, working, learned, players, new zealand, individuals, team, netball, moving, sports, staff, positive, drive, club, leaders, contribute
SPEAKERS
Noeline Taura, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Knowing toto Good morning, my time and good evening, your time, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Noeline Taura 00:07
Yeah, thank you for having me, Paul. I know it seems a long time since you first connected with me on linkerd. And I'm not a maestro on that sort of website. So really good to be here. And I'm really good. I'm really happy to speak to you.
Paul Barnett 00:22
Nolan. I want to start by just name checking a couple of Well, very good coaches, if not great that you've had the pleasure of working with this, Ruth Aiken, Yvonne willory. And, of course, the Gordon teachings, and I'm sure, given the elite nature of New Zealand sport you've met and many others along the way, as well. But I guess from this perspective, I'd like to start by asking you, what do you think the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?
Noeline Taura 00:48
Yeah, I think that's, that's always an interesting question. And I feel that there's not a one size fits all, that's probably something that I've learned along the way that, you know, I've grown up in, like the old school, you know, but authoritative, authoritarian sort of approach pretty much. Don't say nothing, and do everything that I say and have, I mean, that's probably maybe my generation as well with my parents in society, and to be honest, what's expected. And so as it's gone along, have understood or be more aware that individuals have their own way and their own swagger or what they believe in.
And I've come to realize that there's no good or Bad's, there's no positive, but I think at the end, it's how you can mobilize people. Irrelevant have it being performance or being sport, in any industry that you're working with, and being able to create an environment that's positive that people belong, that they want to come back, and they grow and develop. And I think also that they know that they can contribute to moving forward. So I think all those coaches that I've shared my knowledge with or pinched, some stuff from them, I've been able to fill my own back pocket with some of those positives, but also linked it into my own flavor as to how I work with people. And I think that's been probably the common theme as the, the coaches or the leaders is that you know, you know, what they do well, and, you know, areas that they are not strongmen, but also they're so passionate and their own values and how they're gonna work with people. And I think that's apparent with all the with all the coaches or leaders that I work with. [PB1] [PB2]
No lien was
Paul Barnett 02:54
there a person or event in your past that triggered in you this desire to, to coach
Noeline Taura 03:04
now, I fell on coaching. And I was and the first couple of years, I was still coming out of playing. So you know, we talk a lot about transitioning from an athlete, a senior athlete to what's gonna happen next in your life. So I fell upon it through Ruth Aiken, at the time, who was with magic, which was a club that I was with, but also she got appointed the New Zealand coach for the Silver Ferns. So if I'm going to be honest, wasn't a career option that I was. Yeah, I fell upon coaching. And I still find it difficult today.
Paul Barnett 03:47
So nylon, talking about the Waikato Bay of Plenty magic, you, you said that you took them over and you had? Well, you had a little bit of success because you had the 2005 2006 and 2012 championship. Fact, they played in 11 consecutive Bible series, and I wanted to final series. And I wanted to ask you what this teach you about the core elements needed to sustain high performance over a longer period of time?
Noeline Taura 04:17
That's a really good question.
Because perspective, being really clear about what your strategic, what I always think is your strategic drivers. You know, you can work but I think sustainable performance or successes really important not only to your longevity as a coach, but also ensuring that the club and the team moves forward and you're always in contention for premiership or, you know, wills or whatever it may be. So I think from a coach's perspective, having clear strategic drivers is really important. More an overview of or a vision of what you're wanting in your team and your club, and how you're going to contribute to that. For example, I suppose I'm really keen on on people. That's a massive driver for me. Yes, we are athletes, or we are support staff, but we are people first, I think around human capability and potential was really exciting. Sometimes I feel and I've done it and myself, you know, I've put lids on people, but haven't probably had a skill set to motivate or influence or drive what could be possible. And I think there's so many examples of sports or teams that have risen from the ashes. And that's because you've, you've got people amongst a club, or a team that are driven to succeed or perform and work together. So people is really important. [PB3] [PB4]
And I think also, when you are working with people, you're working relationships, you're working communication, and you're working integration. So over in New Zealand, or here, you know, we only have so much resources. So it's how we can work the different groups together. appeasing, I suppose that we are meeting KPIs or each group is ticking off the boxes. But how I see it as having that a holistic approach, that you're everyone's moving forward to 60s, whatever that may be, I think it's really important performance, which is what we're in how you keep ahead of the opposition. So to some degree, innovation, and research is really important, tracking, or reviewing what you've done, and how you can make that better out on court and the training field, what that means in regards to data and stats. And for us as well. [PB5]
Another key component is systems, you know, succession planning, you know, our window, where as an athlete or as a coach or manager, or support services is only a small window. So how you ensure that you have that succession planning, coming through without skipping a beat, how you provide, what I call experiences, to the levels underneath, and how you ensure that they grow. [PB6]
So I think those are the three things that really stand out for me. And I think overall vision I've always loved it I've never been able to get to is how you annihilate and dominate. You know, it's a vision that I pursued, and it goes up and down depending on who you have in your roster, or who you have that supporting you. But it's something that I, I always aspire as how we can be better than the opposition. And not only that, but doing it in a way that aspires others. And groundbreaking is, is also something that comes into my thinking. So I think when you wrap that up and put it into a nice little we parcel that links into our success of success. And then the building blocks that works underneath in regards to the operational stuff to keep on to keep focused and to keep on target.
Paul Barnett 08:47
It sounds a little bit more than a we pass or but I want to pick up on something you said then around the holistic approach because I've got this great quote from one of your players Jeeva mentor, and she says about you, she's a person who cares a lot for her players. So it's a holistic approach. And just the way she makes you feel comfortable, but supportive. Now after reading this, I wondered, Is there a danger in making people feel so comfortable? That they don't stretch themselves?
Noeline Taura 09:18
Yeah, look, that's an I agree with their actual question because it's a fine line. And it's never one. It's, it's not even on the spectrum depending on the context of the situation on the individual and also the environment or the outcome. So if I give you an example, which has got nothing to do with sports, but while it has, you know, my young daughter at the time was 11. And she played netball and she was when she was in a tournament and this tournament was the five day jabi and I asked her on day three and look this this has kids you know So it's not as if your objective was that they were winning the wheel games or anything like that. But it gave me an insight actually to my role as a coach and understanding that these different levels. So out of the discussion that I had with her on day three, I actually asked to, have you been on court? And she said, No, I haven't been on court. So I said, Well, what are you doing? And she said, I sit the I sit on the side, you know, rah, rah, rah. After day four, she came home, and she was a bit disappointed, but also, she had said that she's never playing netball again. And I say to her, Okay, where are you on? Where are you in the standings? something out of 56 teams, right? That was something like 50th. In this competition. So what what there was two things that came out of this for me, I'm I understand and being a mother, as well, I understand that I have a role to care for the people who are in the teams, whether as players or staff, that's, that's what I believe in. And I would never let my kid walk across the road and know that they're going to get run over, I would make sure that they go on the pedestrian crossing, they look at the lights. And then if even if they did walk across the road, I will probably tell them off. But you know, in a way that what is that learning, or what's the lessons that's come out of it, and how the next time that you're not going to walk across the road when these cars. So it's sort of similar to how I, I suppose I approach the way when I'm dealing with people is that we all don't, we're all not one way, we all learn different, we all have different values. And we all have something to contribute. Sometimes it's about how you work with those people, or the lessons that need to happen at that moment of time, depending what your outcome is, but also the end war humans, so we make mistakes, but we also want to know that we're in a, in an environment that's going to look after you, but you also know what's next, and what you need to know to learn to be better. And I in my way, and probably through my experience as a player, that's what I would expect as as, as as a player or as an athlete. So it's a tough environment, you know, like selections is tough. You can't tell somebody, this is not what you do. Or you can't do this without giving them the direction or the plan as to how they can be better. And, and I that's how I that's how I think it is I don't feel it's wrapping them up in cotton wool, or anything like that, because they will be found out on court, and that is ruthless. And if I if our athletes or our staff are found out in an external situation, that means I haven't done my job. So I think there's a lot of you're looking at different people, their learning styles, and how you can maximize their potential, but also that they know that they're learning something out of it, and they've got to be better. And it's probably my philosophy.
Paul Barnett 13:28
No lien in that example. Did you extend the desire to teach to the coach of your daughter's team? Did you go and speak to them?
Noeline Taura 13:39
Oh, my gosh, I look, I've got four daughters. And none of them don't want me anywhere near and it will court because they know that I actually say do I'm gonna come down. I'm gonna come down, don't let her talk. I'll come and talk. And I won't put it in a nasty way. I won't do that. Because I know once again, how tough it is to coach and also with children. I understand that. So I'm now allowed to go to the outskirts of my young daughter, the youngest to be at the gates, but I'm not allowed inside that. Courts. She doesn't want me there. So that's some of the things that I have to respect. But I am MP to get in there sometimes.
Paul Barnett 14:27
So no lien, you take the brave step and you move over to Australia. And you lead the Sunshine Coast lightning, and in 2017 and 2018 lightning hits and you win the Suncorp super netball league. And I'm really curious this, this was a big change for you. And I'm wondering what some of the things you did first were when you got to that new team that drove this result.
Noeline Taura 14:51
Yeah, it was it was probably a good opportunity for me to coach out other athletes outside New Zealand. So athletes that we had, were I, in my mind were world class. So it was a good way to test myself test my routines and my own philosophies and game style as well. The very first thing, which I was actually adamant about was that, for the first two weeks, I sit back, I'm really clear about what's what's happened in New Zealand and some respects, when coaches go from your own country and you go into another country, it's very easy to take your ways, your style, but not recognizing what is already there, and the people that you work with. So as I mentioned before, people is really important factor to how I coach. So for that to happen, I had a setback, and find out how the people worked without me influencing my own ways of a New Zealand way into Australian or at that time, and to a South African, or, you know, we were a League of Nations. So I wanted to see how it how the chemistry worked naturally, who the leaders were, without manipulating, I suppose the environment. So for the first two weeks, I sat back, especially once we went to training, in took lead from it that time, our system coach, which was Kylie, who also put up there, he coaches role with lightning after I left, it was a good opportunity for me to see how Kylie worked as well. And then, from a team perspective, I got a feel as to where the gaps were, and then probably how I thought I could establish, I suppose my own style, my own coaching approach. And work fast within the players I have. I don't know if this is, if you understand it, but I always go back to you know, like, if you had somebody else coming into your house, and they don't You don't know them, they don't know you. And next minute that random person starts telling you what to do. You know, like when you get your backup to, it's like not your house. So you need to respect that. And three, are you working with the people and respecting what's already established. So that was my mentality. And then after that really was working, or establishing our values. So our values was not only from a team perspective, but also a club. And that forms the culture of the team. And what I always what I always say, the foundation piece that you hang your head on. So it draws the common ground, I suppose. And we all connect to that. [PB7] So those were the probably the two first priority areas that I had in my head, and then you start to work the next stages after then,
Paul Barnett 18:18
what were the values that you helped establish it, that the sunshine lightning?
Noeline Taura 18:23
Yeah, once again, people say that a wonder why people point a difference in passion, what ended up to be our values, and our day was, or actually two days was with club and also all the staff of the club, but also the players. It was a memorable time above and beyond together, we strike, also linked into our lightning, motto and was our mantra, and really pleased that those values are still there today and still hold strong to not only the team, but also recruitment of staff and provides once again, the backbone to lightning. So I think it was a great process that we went through. But also as I say that it's still strong today, six years after
Paul Barnett 19:21
Nolan with so many players and staff in a team. How are you able to keep track of who needs what
Noeline Taura 19:33
lat pull sometimes I don't even know my kids names. I can't remember the United's i i suppose the first thing around the staff is is respecting the excu expertise and the knowledge. I think that's really important. I think second thing is making sure that we're all clear what The campaign planners or the strategic direction, and having those discussions as to how everybody feeds into it, and being clear on what our roles and responsibilities are. So that's what the team individuals and also the staff. So once that piece is done, then pretty much it's just keeping that on track, but also working in the environment that we can be flexible. And that we do review. We feel like we review all the time. And out of the reviews that were what occurred, call it looking for those incremental improvements. So I think once again, it's it's that piece. But also the other piece of the contrast to that is, once again, you're working with people, and the social element of of the staff or the players, either myself, and having those touch points or those, those times that you can celebrate together. And that's really important or reminisce, and you hear that human element to the hardness of high performance. And I think once again, when you think of holistic core spiritual, the balance, getting that balance, as getting it right, adds to the flavor, I think of people wanting to come back
Paul Barnett 21:27
Norlin your father is, is also a leader in the community. When you sit down to talk to him about leadership, where do you differ?
Noeline Taura 21:39
Well, my father has got very strong, tribal, what do you call it? status or obligation obligations or responsibilities or thoughts around certain things. Where we differ I feel is sometimes he doesn't listen. I can say that, you know, like, they're very, very strong, very old school, very clear. But that's also because I've lived through experiences that have hurt and challenged them, and, and have been made to change something that's ingrained in them. And I suppose once again, the angst that goes around that. So I have empathy. And I understand to one degree but not fully. So I have to be quite empathetic around that. Because to some degree, I only have a perception, but not a living memory or experience of it. But I also feel around that is that other people can help. And you may not know the full answer. But if you give the opportunity for others, to be able to contribute and drive certain places or certain pieces, that together you can, you can move it faster. And to gather, everybody contributing will want to be a part of it, instead of being isolated from the end. That's probably something that I've that we differ in, but I cannot, to some degree, probably have the same passion and drive that he has had over many years, many, many years, to be so staunch and tough on his values and what that means. Sometimes, I mean, I've only been like 30 to 40 years and Ebola and I'm tired. You know, and and sometimes I question myself as to Can I keep going and have I got anything else? And what's my drive? Where's I can never question him on that. Because he will die or die to that. And I love that commitment. So their passion and their commitment. It's something that I will never that I haven't been able to emulate to the degree that he has.
Paul Barnett 24:11
But it's interesting that you say you're starting to question your own drive, because your ability to motivate or build belief in others is something you players talk about because I've got another quote here from Katrina RA and she says, she makes you believe you're the best player in the world and your position. And this This was after you famously beat Australia and the World Cup. But I wanted to ask you darling, what have you learned about the need to help people, some of some of whom are already elite performers the best in their world? What have you learned about helping them build self belief?
Noeline Taura 24:48
I think that's the most exciting thing when you look at human potential and maximizing that and I'm only thinking about myself as as you know, in I mean, our sports site Boy, our site goes on about it all the time, when we're writing people, he goes, there's never an eight, nine and 10, because you're never can be that, you know, and, and how much more lid that we have to explore and extend our skill sets, or our personality or our character. And I'm talking about myself, but isn't that a beautiful path to pursue? I suppose, you know, and what that means to the individual, but also our responsibility, especially a national honors is, is how we uphold and drive the next level or the standards so that that level underneath have something to aspire to.
So I feel that that whole might be a philosophy, philosophical way of thinking. But I feel where we were under, under what do you call it, not under utilized, but our capacity is so small, within a short timeframe, and to get ourselves to the to be able to tell it, as well as what I say and, and, and the beauty around that to be driven in that way. I think when you're worth that philosophy, and that motivation, it ends up coming from within, and the individuals willingness to enter into that space. And I suppose that's probably the environments that we I'd like to create, or that we're working in, that at the end, you know, whether you win or lose, and obviously, on the sports field, were measured by your win or loss. But it doesn't mean that that year will stink or that we weren't successful. So you always want somebody to come out with something, whatever it is. So that drives it drives us moving forward, I think as as a human race, in society and our role, and our as our role as athletes, but also in the national program.
Paul Barnett 27:11
nataline one of the many team building exercises that you've done with your players was to introduce them to a monk who talked about spiritual guidance. But even in this interview today, you've talked a lot about the spiritual side of coaching and human endeavor. But you also talk a lot about building this with your athletes, this emotional strength, this ability to keep going. And if someone was listening, and they wanted to help their own team, build this inner resolve, what are some of the top tips you'd give them?
Noeline Taura 27:44
Yeah, that's really, it's, it's really interesting, it's, it's actually quite a hard thing to talk about. Because it's so contrasting at times. I always think that the human element is really important. Understanding from age to stage. I mean, if you're looking at a spectrum from developing to national, to international to world class, and there's a lot of other stages in between there. But then, in those stages, you've got agent stage, you know, you've got a lot of different stages within the phases itself. So understanding that actually, once again, working with people, I reconnect really important, you know, just because you're a high performance athlete or world class athlete doesn't mean that there's other stuff that you want, you can't learn to be better to that they're so in a halo or cotton wool, that there's nothing happening in their personal life, that won't impact on them as an athlete. And also those stages, that stages of learning is really important that you educate so that they understand and you and that you know that people are on a different spectrum. I think that's really important. I think providing direction, clear what I think is clear strategy and direction so people know where they fit, but also where they're going to. [PB8]
And also knowing that if there's going to be speed bumps, you know, everybody's life has got the ups and downs. But, but you're going to be cared for, but you're should be clear on where you're going to and how you're going there. I sort of feel that those are probably the clear things. But I also understand that there's a lot in there to unpick, and I think that's the beauty of life if I'm going to be honest and the beauty of getting the final product when it is successful, not necessarily got the result on the scoreboard. But the success around the pathways it got new to that place. And I think that's the most beautiful thing around coaching.[PB9] [PB10]
Paul Barnett 30:09
The nipple New Zealand CEO, Jenny Wiley called you the best netball coach in the world. Now, you've also got five children and three grandkids. I know, you're all I know that you're very close to them, because you talk about them all the time. Now, we've never met before today. But it seems to me that you've been able to build a successful life life on and off the court. And I'm really curious knowing what advice would you give to other leaders on finding a bit of balance in their life.
Noeline Taura 30:41
Two things that come across, actually, and one is because my husband, he keeps saying to me, You're so lucky to have me. And as you mentioned, I've got five children, and I can't reply to him, You're so lucky to have me. They might be the coach or me. Or so definitely having those networks and supportive partner husband is massive. I, you know, obviously, when you're away. It's the it's the family that suffer, not necessarily suffer, but it impacts on the family, I feel being a woman as well adds to that. Because sometimes as well, you know, you're talking about even clean, keeping the house clean, and those sorts of things, and cooking and feeding your children and being there for that emotional support had been missing because of my career. But so I think that's really important. The second thing is, and I've learned it, it's taken me a long time. And I have known it for a long time. But I haven't gone into the stages that I have now I've the last maybe five to 10 years, is having that time for myself. Nutrition is really important to me, and I'm not I'm not a crazy person on that. Keeping exercise is really important to me my own health and well being. I know that when I'm tired, or when I'm angry or frustrated, my emotions are also not consistent. And that their impacts not only on the players that I'm working with, or the staff, but also home life as well. So I've learned to work a lot on keeping myself consistent in regards to how I roll my approach. And that includes once again, my fitness and my health and well being and my sleep as well. But I also understand that the role is when we're on we're on. So I'm not so strict or stringent. Knowing that it's not a do or die if I don't do these things that sometimes just getting the timing, or moving within schedule is really important and being flexible. So I think those are the three things that I've learned to keep me on top of my game, and also to ensure that I remain a good person and good coach, but also I think most importantly, a good partner and wife and mother. I think that's really important.
Paul Barnett 33:43
Nolan, you've been so generous with your time and you've probably got to go and clean the house. Like you just said. I might just finish with one final question if I could not. I'd like to preference it with a quote. And you say it's irrelevant what level you play to, like all sports, it strengthens communities, it helps to build character and personalities of individuals. And it provides identity as well. It's a great summation, I think of your whole philosophy on live. But perhaps I could just ask you in the distant distant future, when you do hang up that whistle, or maybe it's not so distant given what you said today. I'd like to know what is the legacy you hope you're going to leave as a leader? Hmm.
Noeline Taura 34:33
I think there's there's a couple one that the clubs that I have been involved with all the time remain successful. And foundation pieces that are there can be attributed to my time that I've been involved in their club. I think the second thing is that the people who are involved in the team or club and I'm sure that they also contribute to society in a positive way, and are influencing others and being role models to others, I feel in our small window that we learn a lot, we have access to a lot of resources. And as I mentioned, our influence that we can have over other communities or other people, is massive. So I would like to think that the individuals who come out of the teens that I've been involved, understand that they have a role to play in society, and whether that's in their own families, and that leadership piece that links into that, or other community groups or sports, you know, could be a raft of things. And the third thing, I would like to hope that happens, as you know, like when you're involved in a team, and you don't see somebody for a long time, and when you meet up with them, again, you can feel that connection, and the relationship that you had maybe five or 10 years ago, that even though it may have been hard, but I think that's a positive if you can still have those connections with people, even though you haven't seen them for a long time. I think that's a real positive not only for myself as an individual, that individual that I would be talking to, but also the environment that was created, that it's leave something some somebody with a positive taint on on helping them move forward. But we can reconnect and know that there's no ball and the there's pure honesty, and we could help each other if ever needed. And I think those three things I'd be happy with an all the people that I've dealt with, I'll come away quite happy and content. If that was the case,[PB11]
Paul Barnett 37:10
null in total. It's been great spending some time we did this morning, you've given me a little perk of energy to go off and deal with the day. I wish you all the best for your continued success as a coach, except for when you're playing Australia.
Noeline Taura 37:25
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. And it's all good. I, you know, if there is one thing that I've loved my time over and Ozzy and I love watching Australia, I love watching New Zealand and that's probably one thing that has taken that I've learned as the angst that I had prior to my time and Ozzy is no longer I have an appreciation for what Ozzy do, how they do it and and the competitive nature that we have out there. So I take that as a positive pause. So thank you.
Paul Barnett 38:02
Thank you night. Have a great day.
Noeline Taura 38:04
Thanks, guys. Thank you