Mads lesson final

Tue, May 23, 2023 8:36PM • 25:43

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

coaches, swimmers, great, mads, people, swimming, good, feel, answers, life, coaching, pool, learn, listening, leader, swim, mental health, ceo, started, working

SPEAKERS

Mads, Paul Roos, Grant Liversage, Damien Hardwick, Paul Barnett

Paul Barnett  00:00

Welcome to the lessons from the great coaches podcast. I've learned that you don't do it alone.

00:06

You learn so many different things from so many different coaches. That's an elite learning environment.

00:13

How you deal with how to be resilient, how important it is to infuse joy in the process of learning. To be a good candidate, you've got to do more than you take.

00:24

What an interesting way it is to be a leader.

Paul Barnett  00:29

My name is Paul Barnett, and you are listening to the great coach's podcast, where we explore leadership through the lens of high performance sport, by interviewing great coaches from around the world to try and find ideas to help all of us lead better. As the podcast has grown. The great coaches we've interviewed have shared so much insight and wisdom that we decided to create episodes dedicated entirely to the ideas that have resonated with us the most. Today's episode is on the topic of mental health for coaches. And grant and I are joined for the discussion with one of our listeners. Mads Clausen, who is an Olympic level coach from Denmark. If you would like to join us for a future episode, to discuss a topic that is close to your heart, then please contact us using the details in the shownotes

Grant Liversage  01:16

lessons from the great coaches podcast. So good afternoon. Good morning. Good evening, wherever you are. Today we're going to talk about mental health in relation to coaches and coaching. And today we've got Mads Clausen, who is a an established coach having coached for 20 plus years, but I'll let Mads tell us about himself.

Mads  01:41

Thanks for inviting me. Yes, I met some coach swimming for 20 plus years brought a couple of swimmers to the Olympics in other worlds and Europeans. In that end of the game, Coach little kids Coast, Adult beginners, which I find quite fun actually. So had a big range. I've been head coach most my life and a couple of years as a as a club manager. But there was fun to try and figured out there was too many numbers and too little people. So squeeze my way back in into what I'm doing now where I have a part time position as a coach and the club were supervising both mentoring the head coach and supervising the other coaches in the club. And then they do this what is my mission, the mental health for coaches. And that came along the way back in the beginning when I was coaching, basically my happiness was built on whether Mr. Gomez did well. Later it was a bit more where the mushrooms were feeling good. And I was working hard I was there for the swimmers I did what they needed to other swim, good, be happy and perform. And I came in the end that one of the best meets I had in my life qualifying swimmers we did it it's not an Olympic year. So qualifying is swimmers, for Europeans and a lot of swimming swimmers much geometry next level. And I was just empty inside. I couldn't feel happy. I was burned out. And I started wondering what to do. started wondering what it was it was essentially a lot of stress also in my private life that make it more difficult to be a coach. And I started working on myself and then the joke was actually that I wanted to become a better coach. And for that reason I took a coach education like life coach education and I started learning NLP and took my NLP education all because I wanted to be a better coach. I want to be there for other swimmers. But that journey just as it taught me how to take care of myself and when asked administered to take care of myself coming happy to the pool. Well I started to have happy swimmers and they start to swim even faster. So I always it's an it's an hour, kind of build this mantras like habit coach, make happy swimmers, have a swim or swim fast instead of the other way around, working hard to make swimmers swim fast and then become happy myself. And then I looked around and look to see how many of my colleagues great empathic people who want the best for everybody around them and do it to the the extent that there's no space for themself. I started one day. So yeah, we as coaches believe that us being there 10 training trains a week, we make a difference for the swimmers, as talking to the swimmers, swimming coaching is we see these athletes more with ours and their parents in the period where they're formed as individuals, their teenage years, their early 20s, we will often be the person to see the most. And that gives us a huge responsibility gives a huge power. And at the start realizing how much me myself and a lot of my colleagues, we were proud of the difference we can make. Proud, proud of the fact that by being there by talking to the swimmers, we can make them good swimmers, we could make them great people at the same time. And they look behind and so who had my back? If I believe so much that my coaching by the swimmers will have such a huge impact. Why was there not another person behind my back? Give me me the same support the same. Just follow our goals. Just the small like the smallest part of coaching is just set a goal and follow up. What do you want to achieve? What happened? Who do that for a coach? Yeah, sometimes the board to it. But that's often from a completely different perspective, who see that little thing every week. So did you manage to do what you want. Then, as it turned more into head coach and started supervising the coaches in the club, and when I was club manager, I could take on that role. And I realized what big difference it can make. But I feel that we are in a world that's changing a lot. The young kids today have so many opportunities. And if you don't create an environment where they really thrive and enjoy to be they go play fortnight, stumble guy or whatever they can play in the phone computer. But on the other hand, I see young kids today that when we create the right framework, where they feel secure and happy, they're ready to go the extra mile. I don't need to ask them to push himself. And to create that framework. create that environment, you need a coach who's happy and relaxed and ready to trust the athletes around him. And that's my mission. To go out and create more of these coaches, there are a lot of good guys out there. And I want to create more than

Grant Liversage  08:22

just something I wanted to pick up on is the sort of circle of good performance leads to happiness or happiness leads to good performance, which is is an observation that that we've heard from other coaches. Do you think that that is a widely held view amongst the coaches that you interact with?

Mads  08:47

I think it's growing. I think it's not in all sports. I think it's I see in swimming. I know in in Denmark, we have some heartbeats because of some coaches back in the 90s early zeros who went too far in being abusive, mentally abusive, and really tough. So swimming in Denmark is on the forefront of saying we want to create high performance swimming in a good environment. I see other countries, but actually back in Montreal in what was it? 2013 I think it was at the World Champs in Montreal. I only had two swimmers. They swam the same basically the same time. So for eight days, I had to be at the competition pool for two times 30 minutes. Rest of the time I was spending sitting at the warm up pool and watching the interaction between athletes and coaches. And I learned a lot from just watching the pool guessing you have a lot of different languages and don't understand nearly We all have them. But even if you see a Slovakian swimmer speaking your language, they have no idea that body language seydel You can see who's, who's the one who can actually look at the clock be not happy and tell it to the swim and swim or go again. There's one who look at the clock. What are the fail fake smile, pretend to swim and resume has gone. They dropped the job, they shoulder the head and you know, things are not good. You see who gave her her high five when they come out of the pool, who just walk away from each other. And it was a clear line for me, between the good relationships around the warmer pool. The relaxed coaches, those who are just enjoying having looked like they're just at a party look like them just mingling a party with their swimmers talking to other people. And the swimmers who performed in the pool.

Grant Liversage  11:02

And Mads, what about coaches who feel the need for support? What do you think it is that stands in the way of a coach seeking help and support?

Mads  11:15

I think it's traditions, not so many years, even getting help for swimmers was a taboo. I've heard a colleague I know he's changed his mind since then. But back some years ago, he said day once you needed psychologists forget that you're done. And no, that's not his opinion anymore. But that's where he come from. And, and as I think as a as a swimming coach, you leading your team, you're leading your team of coaches in the other groups. You have a group of parents around your swimmers you need to lead, you have your board, which in many, many cases is also just parents or volunteers who don't know anything but for me to be quite alone. And I know in the daily swimming coach, association, we did a survey back in the late 90s. On working conditions for coaches, and the one word that came out the most was loneliness. You're along. You are that one strong figure in the middle.

Grant Liversage  12:30

But I wonder if we can ask Paul to come in on some of the quotes that resonate with what Mads has been talking about from some of the great coaches that you've interviewed.

Paul Barnett  12:40

No, I think Thanks, Greg. And man, it's it's, it's great listening to your story. And I think this whole idea of co chairs experiencing a form of loneliness comes up quite frequently. And one of the great examples I've got to insert here is from Paul Roos. And what's interesting about Paul Roos is that he was a premiership, coach of Australian rules football, but he now runs a consultancy that looks at culture, in the workplace. So he works with a lot of CEOs. And in this quote, he talks about how lonely it can be being a head coach, or a CEO. And he gives this advice about learning and surrounding yourself with people that you can lean on. And I'll, I'll play that for you now.

Paul Roos  13:25

But you've got to lean on the people around you. I think what I would say for the CEOs listening and leaders listening, it can be lonely, reach out, don't feel like you have to have all the answers. Yeah. Ask you to IC. Do you think I'm doing a good job? Do you think we need to change the product? Do you think our strategies were I don't think you need to have all the answers. I'd really good people around me and they were like that we would play better. I think staying calm in those moments as well. Not reacting. Yeah, not being reactive is really, really important. Yeah, there are a multitude of ways. But everyone feels under pressure and everyone feels a little bit insecure at certain times.

Mads  14:06

I believe the part don't think you have all the answers is key. I used to believe I had all the answers. And I don't know I think it's I think it's Australian and Australian swimming did a research figuring out that a regular CEO needs to master a six to eight areas of competencies. And a regular swimming coach is like 14 to 16. So swim coaches tend to think they know it all. We of course Swimming Coaches, we gym coaches, we are a psychologist. We do life planning. We plan the pool we planned the training camps we Yeah, make the budgets we we think we know it all. And I was there and not until I started actively listening to people around me. They're getting out that one of the big greatest things in the sports club is that the parents of the swimmers from all walks of life. So you will have bankers, CEOs, teachers, mechanics, whoever you can think of, as a parent in your group. And just there as a lot of great people to talk to make sure to pull in the knowledge that is just under your nose.

Grant Liversage  15:41

Now, I wonder if part of the pressure that coaches feel is related to this notion that they need to know the answer. And that coaches who are able to adopt the philosophy that you've just described, is probably the beginning of a next level type of relationship with themselves and, and with the athletes and other stakeholders that their coach, I wonder if call if you've got any similar thoughts around that confidence of coaches.

Paul Barnett  16:17

Now we do. And there's a great example of it actually, exactly what Matt's talking about. And it comes from a gentleman called Damien Hardwick. And what's interesting about Damian story is again, very successful athlete and was failing as a coach. And his club, sent him to Harvard in America, they sent him on an authentic leadership course. And he talks about the biggest learning he took from that to was to learn to be vulnerable, and to admit, when he doesn't have the answers, he came back, embrace this new style. And he went on to win three championships, national championships, and there was books written about the, their results, and there was a documentary made about it as well. And it's a very powerful example of embracing the kind of vulnerability that then people react very well to. So I'll insert that clip and play it for you now.

Damien Hardwick  17:16

I think what happens is when you step into coaching, you're always trying to replicate the great coaches that you've had. So you're trying to take the very bits, best bits out of them, and trying to morph them into you. And there's no question I was trying to do exactly the same. But what you tend to do is when you're trying to be someone else, you're not actually bringing out yourself and you're not realizing why other people are employed you in the first place they employed you because of who you are. So always trying to be an imposter of sorts. I was trying to be the great Elsa Clark's and Kevin Sheedy Mark Williams get as pagan or as I wasn't being a hate would refer to myself in third person, but wasn't being the very best version of Damien Hardwick. And that's what that that course taught me just do what you do do it? Well, because I've got incredible strengths in certain areas. But I've also got areas that I'm not great at. And what I had to learn and understand is I didn't have to be great at everything, I just had to be great at certain things. And the one thing I found it that I could complement myself with other people in my organization, I was very good at this. But you know, it's not my strength, that area. So I'm going to employ someone who's an expert in that field. And that was the one thing I think that I, that I learned was, I had to step back and I had to swallow my ego. Because I reckon the hardest thing as a leader sometimes is to say, You know what, in front of your players, boys, I don't know the answer. You know, as a leader, you always think you've got to have every answer. But the fact of the matter is, players can they got a great understanding when you bullshitting them, excuse the language, but they got a great understanding. It's saying, Listen, you're full of crap. And I think what the players started to understand, and really like is effect boys. I don't know why we lost the game, the mayor, and we did, but we're going to find out we'll get back with the answer as a group of coaches. And the more I opened up to the players, the more they opened up to me and

Paul Barnett  19:00

Mads, could I ask you a question actually, listening to you. It sounds it sounds fascinating, and I can see the passion you have for the subject, but I'm wondering, what do you actually do? Could you describe to us some of the things you do when you step into a relationship with another coach? And start working with them? I'd be very curious to understand that.

Mads  19:26

A lot of what I do is creating clarity. Clarity of how does your life look now? clarity of what are your values? What is really important to you? When you, as a person really know your values, your core values? It's easy to take the right decisions. Then you stand by your values. And whatever happens. It's easy to say yes or no. Because you know, where it's gonna lead. Then, of course I help with setting the goals, see what's your next step and follow up on it. I believe in lot a lot in finding the small, small changes in your life that will make a big difference. Like one good example, if you want to read a book, people look at their free on the Facebook say oh shit as long book. But if you read 10 pages a day you read 3000 pages in a year, even if you skip skip some days. So like, everybody can read 10 pages a day. Everybody come 10 minutes earlier to practice area, but one of the small things I did is just making sure to give a handshake and look everybody in the eyes before and after practice. And that started really to roll on the just empowered my connection with the group. One of my clients that was a business leader, I was coaching, but make the biggest difference for him was making the coffee machine ready kneeling. Because then it was easy to get out of bed because you know, on the way to the bathroom is you just flick the button and the coffee would read. After three months, that meant he went to the gym every morning because he was out of bed anyways. He was feeling fresh in the evening. And his life just changed. And the one little thing that changed the most was this getting the coffee ready in the evening. But it took one and a half a month of coaching to this to make clarity about his life. Look all his strategies. Look, where are you failing? Where are you succeeding? What tweaks do we need to do? They cannot just go in and say yeah, Paul, just make your coffee machine ready, needling and your life is gonna change. There's a process to getting there is just discovering who you are.

Grant Liversage  22:12

And I guess just a question, if there are coaches listening to this podcast, who feel the need to start looking at this aspect of their lives? What What advice would you give those coaches?

Mads  22:24

I think, first of all, if they're not in a network of other coaches find at least one or two coaches in the similar level as himself to talk to me at some point I even had a coach we sent all the old owl practices to his other sometime be reading him whatever made a send to my swimmers I sent to him also. So we had like just following up with each other. So first step, find one or two other coaches that you have talked to on a regular basis. Find a great coach. And then come to my armpit.

Grant Liversage  23:09

Yeah, I love that. Because you're actually going back to this notion of loneliness, and reaching out to other people straight away. deals with that. And then of course coming to your homepage, you can help them knock it out the park. Big thank you to Matt for taking the time to talk to us about this issue and to Paul for taking us into some of the insights that the great coaches have had on the subject of mental health for coaches. So thank you very much. Thank you, Jim.

23:41

We hope you enjoyed our discussion on mental health for coaches with one of our listeners, Mads Clawson and found one or two things that you can bring to your own dinner table, locker room or boardroom table for discussion. If you would like to contact Mads, you can reach him at his website, www. Mads clawson.dk. And we will also put a link to his website in the show notes. For key lessons I've taken away on the topic of mental health for coaches were a happy coach leads to happier athletes who perform better. It is quite normal to feel lonely as a coach or a CEO. And you should not feel that reaching out for support is a sign of ineffectiveness or weakness. As the leader you do not need to have all the answers. include those around you in the process of finding ways to improve or answer performance challenges. And the best people to work with if you want to make small changes to improve your own performance, or the people in your own network. Here at the great coaches podcast, we are always trying to learn so please let us know if you have any feedback. Just like shining with Dan Add who after listening to our Trevor Gleason episode said, always great to hear Trevor speak, and some really good questions. Lots take away from the interview that can be applied in a lot of real life situations. Thank you sharing with dad. The interaction with people around the world who listen gives us great energy. And so if you would like to join us for a future episode, or have any feedback or comments, then please let us know. And all the details on how to connect with us are in the show notes or on our website, the great coaches podcast.com