Peter Giles Edit

Wed, 9/29 10:46PM • 38:34

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

players, coach, people, baseball, sport, game, team, paul, play, club, culture, years, phenomenal, group, devastating news, success, parents, grand finals, documentary, playing

SPEAKERS

Peter Giles, Paul Barnett

Paul Barnett 00:00

So Peter, nice to meet you. How are you?

Peter Giles 00:02

Very good. Thank you, Paul, welcome and good to speak.

Paul Barnett 00:04

Great to speak to you. Where are you today?

Peter Giles 00:06

So I'm now in Melbourne in a little suburb just out of Melbourne. Armidale. Just Friday afternoon. So it's the end of another week.

Paul Barnett 00:13

Well, fantastic. We're very much looking forward to chatting with you. I'm a big baseball fan. And I'm looking forward to hearing your philosophies on coaching baseball, I'd like to start actually, with, as we were preparing for today, you sent me a wonderful quote. And I'd like you to explain a little bit about what it means to you. You said, players don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.

Peter Giles 00:37

Yeah, exactly. It's one of those things for that probably taken me a while to actually believe in that all the way through my playing career. And your look in various sports over the years in documentaries that used to be coaching was the fire and brimstone and the ridicule and a really must a dictatorship stalling coaching. And I think maybe just whether it's being part of being a phys ed teacher and seeing kids every day, at the end of the day, the people that relate to you the best are the ones that feel as though you have a vested interest in them, or it's not so much having a vested interest in their, for me a baseball ability, but seeing them off field since as we get adults into their family life, from single people into married people into parents, when players and families think that a coach has the best interest in them. And my experience has been to get the best rewards from that player. And I've heard that saying from various coaches, but now I really believe that you could be the most respected player that has ever walked the earth in your sport. But that doesn't give you the right to be a good coach. And I think it's when players really believe that you have a vested interest in their well being. And they just general leaf as a person, then the success that you get is magnified.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 01:56

So you've seen, as you just mentioned, then you've seen players or people you've coached and I know you've coached juniors and I know you've coached men, you've seen them transition through their life. So I guess I'd like to ask you what is the role of a coach,

Peter Giles 02:10

when I started coaching was you've got to commit for five, six days a week, multiple hours in every training session, because I thought coaching was all about get as much work into the players as you can. But as I've gotten older and work with a whole variety of levels of players is basically ensuring that they've got a good work life balance. And if they're players that I've found that work too much into baseball, I found they got burned out. And I found that as soon as fire happened to them. And these are the elite kids who are they the elite of under 18. And I'm a 19 in Australia. And we're the top of the gene pool he and they would be training every day for five hours a day believe it. That's what they had to do. As soon as they got to American fan that that success was not a guaranteed thing because you were good in Australia doesn't mean you're going to be good in America, I found those players finished up getting so despondent because they never had that escape for how can I just regroup and come back again, these were the elite kids that got burnt out. So I've just believe now the role of a coach is number one for me is to make sure they've got a good work life balance. Because when they do come to training, they're able to maximize the time that they've got. And I found the improvements was phenomenal, as opposed to they're there for three or four hours at a time. They may be working for 40 minutes of that three hours. And it was just more than to ensure that they actually believe in themselves.[PB2]

But Les Paul, regardless of the sport, if you have a player that actually believes in themselves, because they've got that belief installed from the coaches, then success really becomes really just a domino effect. role of a coach, mentor slash teacher slash confidence slash alive coach in many ways, all the good coaches in sports, not just baseball for all sports people have treat them as a semi when they retire a father figure that taught them more about life and what it was about sport. They're the people that I get inspiration from[PB3]

Paul Barnett 04:20

when I was preparing for this if you Peter, I was talking to someone about you and they use the word father figure. So it's interesting that you bring it up. But what I'd like to ask you is a lot of people who coach teams really struggle to get this message across around work life balance and tempering your intensity. Is there any tips or anything that you've done that's really worked to encourage people to find that balance,

Peter Giles 04:44

but I have to say that if anyone buys into what you're doing my last state was with a little local site he called s&m and I had quite a bit of success. And they turn players probably three or four players were turned over every year to try to recreate that enthusiasm and that desire was always the dilemma at the start of the year. If players buy into what you're trying to create, you never judge a side by success, because that can be false people can buy a Premiership in any sport Premier League Soccer got the most money, you generally would be successful. I look at when I try to do research on and I use international sports. What was it that less the football club in the Premier League? Why did they have that phenomenal year where they had virtually a team of nobodies, but yet were phenomenal. What is it about the no nine teams that were successful, I tried to delve into those teams and coaches as much as I could. And they all had that mantra of the culture, the environment that was created in all of those teams, players talked about for many years post a time at that club. So I try to create an environment where everyone whether you were the elite player, or whether you were a first year player at the club, you felt as though you were just as much respected as each other[PB4] . I never tried to segregate players too much, because then that creates divisions. everyone pays the same enrollment fill registration fees. So why shouldn't they get the same access to as much benefits as the first get is what the lower grades should get. And then it became a real domino effect, Paul, that people wanted to go to the club to train, people want it to be part of it. And people were all pretty much then said to our manager for that whole time I was there was one night.

Now in baseball terms, as you probably know from you, you wouldn't know but with nine players on a team, our mantra for the whole six years I was there was you had to do one night. And this is not the person that had to get five hits a game or had to throw a perfect game as a pitcher. You just had to do one night. [PB5] And that whole mantra came for we had players who would come back from the major league play called Shane Lindsay, he would drive an hour and 20 minutes to a midweek game and said, Hey, what do you want me to do? When players like that bought into it, then you knew that the whole club was on the right track players who were playing National League for the Melbourne aces would come back? And they would just say, Pete, what do you want me to do today. And that was the whole mantra. And if you had the senior group buying into that, that was just a really fun place to be because everyone was on the same page. No more, no less. As they say, I try to take a lot from other coaches build Bella check from the New England Patriots. I've looked at his documentary so much. And his banter was just do your job, know your role and do it to the best of your ability, very simple terminology. But players knew what their role is. And if you know that, that's just transferable to any sport, any ability level, just know your role and do it to the best of your ability[PB6] .

Paul Barnett 07:54

I think it's true for all sports. And I think it's truthful if actually, but I'm going to ask you about culture in a minute. But firstly like to ask you about just your experience you've played in championship teams. You've coached the national level with the aces in a championship team, and you now coach, the national team. So I'd like to ask you, what do great coaches do differently,

Peter Giles 08:15

really good ones. I mean, I've never met the late but I certainly look at what they do. And I read on what they do. What they do is they get this core group of senior players, you've got to have a senior group that drives everything. If everything is driven by one player being the coach, then it's not a sustainable product, and try to get the senior core plays and they drive everything you do the elite team[PB7] . So when I was very fortunate to be an assistant coach under two great coaches in David Wyden and Dan makonnen. And this was when that Claxton shield was a two week tournament play for each day. And Dave White was the head coach and his philosophy was for that two weeks on pick the best team that is playing in Victoria at the moment, regardless of reputation, or what I had done a year before t four. And I remembered he picked the team then one of the games he had a Division Two starting lineup, because those plays for those teams with the best going around. And that senior core players, and these are names that may be familiar to some of the players but Matthew Kate, and Russell spear and Brad Harmon. These players were just fantastic role models to the rest of the team. And we didn't start off with a great tournament. But none of those senior players lost any faith in what we were trying to do. And as the tournament wears on, obviously momentum kicks in and the senior players then just drove the whole culture and this culture was for a two week window. We were blessed to win it. My memories is not of the trophy, but it's just on the whole feeling of what it was like to be around 20 players that was selfless that we're all Key towards one thing, what the successful coaches or teams have, they just had that senior core players that played everything. And I've told this to many young players coming through that Richmond Football Club, obviously Melbourne, which is now regarded as the benchmark six years ago, they were on the cusp of having a messy clean app, with the media ridiculing their leadership group that plays in Australia with no contract conscience and his leadership style to their credit now and I looked at a documentary by train, and he modeled itself on the All Blacks, and there was no decade policy. So no one leaves a Richmond club room at the end of the game until it's spotless, they don't delegate that to the cleaners, they delegate it to the playing group. And it's just that club was turned around, not so much because of one person, but because their leadership group, everything's transferable. There's no surprise that successful teams in all sports, they all have that common theme of Wow, that group just had a group of leaders that were just phenomenal. And you could look at any sport. And I'm sure they you could say that was all driven by a senior core applies. And everyone follows[PB8] . It's the Pied Pipers of this world. I want

Paul Barnett 11:17

to drill into this idea then of this core group of players, because I think what's really interesting in your story, is that you coach teams that have won multiple titles in multiple years, six in a row with the state team, you coach. Yes. And how did you go about resetting after success so that players didn't move forward with a sense of entitlement. I was living

Peter Giles 11:39

in Dubai at the time, where estudent, who were very, very powerful team, I think, had lost all maybe three, either two or three grand finals to another powerful tinkered widely, and they just had that mental hurdle of we can't beat widely. And it's a fine line between being just the dominant club for 15 years, versus the dominant side for six. So I was lucky enough I was appointed coach, and the first thing I say was, when they were just couldn't get over that grand final hurdle was, we got to come up with a plan B that, regardless of the sport, my goal is we will play from the very first game of the year, as though it's the last game of the season. Whether that's a grand falling football, whether that's game seven of a World Series in baseball, you have to have a game style that stacks up against the very best of the competition. So we altered our game style. Regardless of who we're playing to say this is the style that we will play in the very last game of the year. So in baseball terms por estar en We're known as a very much a free screen team that would have the potent to score runs at will. But when they got to the last game of the year, they were facing the best pitcher in the competition. And those that offense was no longer there are three I just said was, we will now play a colleague's style of baseball, which is in baseball terms, manufacturing runs. So everyone now knew that their role as I said to you one night, now your role was to make sure that in when you're playing and when you're betting that run out who's gonna base must move 90 foot, so everyone would buy into move the 90 foot. So we had logos printed 90 foot baseball, one, nine. So it was the culture of the club that regardless, so people we had three or four players every week would play for the aces. So three or four would come in, they would just know 1/9. You know, that's what I got to do move around on 1/9 coaching staff being Richard King and myself, we stopped imports, we never brought any imports out. And we said you have to virtually play Junior baseball to play in our seniors. Everyone knew there was no more roadblocks. There was a bacon See, if you play well, you were picked on the fact that if you couldn't produce one night, then you could there will be a place for you. And all of a sudden the team was made up of only locals. And we were probably one of the few teams in the league that was made made up of Bibles. And then once you unleash the beast, and they had a belief that they could win, then it became just a domino effect.[PB9] No more imports were there, Michael kids all playing the style of baseball that was contributing. Everyone couldn't believe that their averages went down. But the number of runs scored went through the roof. The thing is, Paul is that people look back and think but that's so simple Pete You didn't have to recreate the wheel, but it was just basically making kids and players believe that they've only got to do one night at any given time, whether that's in the field in the batter's box, if I just did one 1/9 very rarely word in that file under pressure. In the end Paul, we just finished up on a steam roll and we provided probably the most players per week. To the ices, so we knew that we never had our full siding, but everyone who came through by the roll, and then when the season came through at the pointy end, and the aces had left and finished, everyone then came back and it was just phenomenal. Three of the Grand Finals, they want an extra innings and all stood up under pressure, purely because they didn't have to do anything different than what they've been doing the last 27 games. And that's why I laugh when people say you can just turn it on or turn it off. You can't, you've got to believe that it's just consistency. And if you've done it for 27 games, it's very easy to do it in the 28 game than it is to do it for the very first time. And that's how it came about. This is the one night mantra and 90 foot was this, the logo of the club is 90 foot.

Paul Barnett 15:49

It's a great story theater, and there's so much there and culture. But what I'd like to do is just a lot of coaches take over new teams, and they are trying to improve a culture like you just talked about, then what advice would you have on the things that they should do first?

Peter Giles 16:06

The first thing is that as a coaching group, you've got to really believe in what you're doing, because there's going to be people who are going to question you, and no doubt that's everyone's got their right, there's going to be times when it doesn't come off. But if you really believe in what you're doing, then I think that's the first step. Next thing is you've got to have communication with everyone, you've got to explain why you're doing things. Why are you doing the way we're doing it? What is it that we're changing? And why are we changing it? I think the days have gone past of it's my way or the highway is gone. I think people are pretty savvy now they're all very knowledgeable about this sport. And I think you have to justify the direction you're trying to take. It's not going to be a quick fix, to go from a power hitting team into a hunting team takes a lot of courage to do by the players. But you have to try to sell it and explain why you're doing it. As long as you're prepared Paul as a coach to find out what the weaknesses are in a culture and rectify one at a time. If you come in and try to change the whole world. It's not going to work. So yesterday, we tried to rectify one thing. And that was to make sure wives and girlfriends were a part of the team. So any function, they had to be a wife and girlfriend rather than the boys are out on the town tonight. That was the first part the culture went from. It's a baseball team made up of boys or men, versus it's a baseball club made up of families, wives and girlfriends. That was the first thing that we wanted to fix. The next culture thing we wanted to fix was to ensure that everyone felt as though they were valued wasn't just the player who was the superstar. That was the player that you need for a club to survive. Once we fix that, then all of a sudden, it became very easy to fix the onfield culture style of play, because everyone felt as though they were part. [PB10] It's funny because we always sign off on emails or letters within the ABC love, or ABC Family. And unfortunately, they had some tragedies with Chris lane, who was that very sad story of the baseball and America who was shot going for a run in Oklahoma quite a few years ago. He was a young kid, I run baseball on a scholarship and he had a tragic scenario it was unfortunately shot and the whole matter of if it wasn't for a Sporting Club, that people could feel as though they could go to and feel part of a family. I think that catastrophe that tragedy would have been magnified for so many people. When I think that's the value of having a Sporting Club that feels as though you're more than just results on a field. It's more about people feel as though they're part of something much bigger than just being a player from between two o'clock and five o'clock on a Sunday. But all the good teams in the world in any sport feel as though they're part of something they're part of a family or they're part of a tradition. I love the things that many college teams do where they tap a sign before they leave it the locker room is this that culture and feeling of history on our level that because when you put on a good team, we have a sign as they leave the dugout. In essence, today you had the honor of representing acid and baseball club. So it just creates that sense of it feels special to play[PB11] . Rather than it's a shorter play that sits where we just gradually changed it and it just snowballed.

Paul Barnett 19:35

It's great listening to you talk about family and the role that sport can play in building those bonds. But like all families, there's often times where they disagree, or there's issues. And I'd like to just dig in there and ask you about how you've managed to influence disruptive peer pressure or negativity within a team.

Peter Giles 19:59

Well, it's funny because There's two types of families are found. There's the family that's within a club that is generally all embracing. But then the families that sometimes are associated with Representative techniques become Why is interval Why is why is Player A playing and not playing the main? Why is it not that my son was playing. So I find that that is magnified, the further up the food chain you go, I've been fortunate enough the last 10 years to be coach of the Australian under 19 schoolboy team. So we travel every two years to America on a 30 game to up against all colleges. First off, I say any player that wants to go anywhere in sport, and I use their life as an example after that, they have to be able to speak for themselves. I tell parents and players in the room at the very first session that I want parents to be part of the journey. Anytime I speak to the playing group, I bring the parents with us. So they hear firsthand good and bad things to the team. But I say that any communication must come from the player first. It's not because I'm segregating parents, but I want them now to take ownership that whether it's playing and trying to get into college, whether it's trying to solve a life problem, you have to now start to stand on your own two feet, we make that very clear from the start. [PB12] So touchwood, I've been blessed that for 10 years, the parents have been may not agree. But they respect that the player has to be the one to cite pain. Why aren't i doing this, or P Tell me why this happened to me in this scenario, rather than the parent who's living dead through their key, because often that becomes foggy glasses. And it's never perfect, Paul. I mean, there's unfortunately always cases where I'm sorry, I wish I had done things differently. But the only thing that gray gives you is that it's a chance to sort of say, you know what, the last time this scenario happened, I didn't handle it. Well, this time round, this is how I'm going to handle it. I try to tell people that this is what I'm doing. And this is the reason why I'm doing it. Now, if you don't like it, unfortunately, there's two options for you as a player, we either change the way you feel about it and you buy in, or there's other clubs, that will be better for you. You have to be brutal, Paul, because unfortunately, I have to make sure that I'm making it fair for 20 plays in a representative team, then the one isolated case who sees it differently. But touchwood, even the Australian school boys who are all trying to get the colleagues and parents travel with us. It's been phenomenal. So I haven't really seen that the angry parents, I saw it more in football when I was involved with 40 witness, son, because that's a more of an emotional game. Reality is poor parents, they love their kids, and I want to see their kids do well. And I think with kids sport, if you're honest with people, and you're upfront with them, tell them good news, tell them bad news. But if you're upfront, people can generally handle it. And that's been the way that probably gray hair has taught me that. Not everyone's going to like you. I say it's not my role to be your friend. But it's my role to make sure that I am fair to everyone[PB13] .

Paul Barnett 23:11

I'd like to talk to you a little bit about finding the line between players and coach. But before I get there, I'd like to ask you a question about self doubt, because you come across as a coach that isn't afraid of holding the line and saying that's the line and we're all going to stay true to it. But there must be times where you doubt yourself. And I'd be really keen to hear on how you've managed to deal with self doubt along the journey.

Peter Giles 23:37

It's been a lot of times when I've had senior players that have played for their country and players that have played in nationally, have come back and said, Pete, I don't agree with what you're doing. Like don't think that this is the way to go. There's always behind closed doors, you will always question yourself, I take a lot of knowledge in people and listening to their stories. I know that in a lot of the AFL coaches, they always have a mentor so all the good coaches seem to have a mentor that they bounce ideas off to me is it Am I wrong in 1am i doing people that don't have a vested interest. I've been blessed that I always bounce ideas off people and run it past people. What do you think and if you've got good mentors, mentors come in all shapes and forms, that they're not afraid to tell you the truth. There are times when that has happened to me. But I will always come back and say that this is the way that this Congress asked me to take the direction to because in order to be appointed, you have to sell a vision to people who make the appointment. I said to the players who were disgruntled whether you believe it or not, or will you take credence or not this is the direction that the club is employed me to do. I want you to be part of it. The club needs you to be part of it. But if you can't buy in, then unfortunately I can't use you and I've had players leave the club because of that. But I've also had those Same players come back and have been the the greatest role models second post coming back that I could ever have wished. [PB14]

And it's often people will try to test you as a coach, there's always the mantra on fine pull that unless you have played at the elite Elite level, then people don't think that you've got the ability to coach and I think that can go to any sport. But it's incredible that the people in a lot of sports that are successful, aren't necessarily a weren't necessarily the best players on that chosen sport. But they generally have been the best communicators and the best people to evoke an ambition or a dream of the club. Yes, you do doubt yourself. But I also believe that you've got to stand firm is that life is never going to be always what you want it to be[PB15] . And we had a case where in baseball, there is a promotion or relegation system like English soccer, and esterday had come off five, back to back premierships. And in their sixth year, we for many reasons, we were at the lower half of the ladder. And when you're at the lower half a ladder with no inputs, the knives come out pretty quickly that the dad has come out. And that was probably of all the times I was coaching was the one that I was the most proud of. Because they finished that through to what we knew got us those previous five premierships. And then the second part of the year, we finished up turning it around and finished out winning it in game three of the Grand Finals series. Unfortunately, against your beloved Milton sign, you have to adapt, you have to change according to the scenario. And we change to a degree but the whole culture didn't change the way we went about this one nine philosophy game. But the thing that really found comforting Paul, and happens to I guess in business as well, if you've got people who are above you that will support you regardless of results, then eventually the work that you do will pay off. And I think as soon as you everyone start second guessing, and backstabbing and trying to think that you're not the person for it, I think that then that creates divisiveness within groups or businesses. But the President of the outcome was really supportive. And they never wavered in their belief. And I think eventually, once it turned around, it became very quickly a very successful group again, in everything, Paul was driven by senior players who never questioned that, if we keep working hard, it will turn around. Then when we had that work life balance, the work life balance for the group was, now it's time to put the baseball side of work life ahead of other issues. So they worked hard to get back on track. And then once it got back on track, I sort of had that balancing game. But I was blessed with that when players needed to really work. They worked

Paul Barnett 27:53

better you've got listening to it sounds like you've got a strong relationship with the players very intimate bond. And again, I think it comes back to this positioning of view as this father figure for players. But often times, you can get too close to players and you need to be removed enough to be dispassionate as the coach. How have you found maintaining that line through your career? And is there any advice you could give to other coaches on being able to be dispassionate

Peter Giles 28:19

Paul, that's the toughest one when you've been with players for five years, and you plead with them three, four days a week and had success and now you have to tell them that they're not playing Grand Final. That's tough. There are times when your family life says though you're going through a tough time because you become irritable or white from everyone. And you know that decisions impacting them, it's hard not to put yourself in their shoes. I wish I could say that it's fun. But coaching is not always fun, because there are always in every team that is successful. And in baseball, there's 10 players can take the field, there will be 15 that deserve to be there. But unfortunately, you're there to do a job you're there to ensure that 10 years from now, you have to say you will we were all part of something. And I think that the players that you have to deliver the devastating news too. I wish I could say there's a rule book to how to do it. I think the rule book changes as you get older Paul, and I think the rule book for me to edit to sit down and deliver devastating news is to be just as honest as you can. Because life has taught me that human nature can deal with the most devastating abusers whether it's from a doctor, whether it's from the police force, you can deal with that when it's told to you, when it's told in dribs and drabs and in sending windows, that's when the message is not delivered clearly. I think you can only be upfront now with players and I think whether that's in business or in sport, I think you've just got to be upfront. There is no easy way when you tell someone that they're not part of something special, but you're making that decision on behalf Half of 20 plays, you're not making it behalf of one, it's a terrible thing to go through as a coach. But if you put your hand up the coach born, you put it up for the good and the bad, you know that there will be times when you have to say no to the player that you have loved the most as a coach. But unfortunately, whether that's telling them that they're to retire, whether that's telling them that you're sorry, you've got to come out of the game. Now, whether that's saying you're unfortunate, you're not starting the game, you have to say, Well, you know, that comes with the territory. One thing that tells me, Paul is that if you don't have a vested interest in one person, but you have a vested interest in the club, then you're making the decision good and bad on behalf of the club. players might not agree with you on that given time. But I think at the end of the day, people will always sit back and say, No, I wasn't an individual starting player. But I was part of the success. [PB16] And that's what I've tried to make decisions on those gut wrenching times when I've had to seek players that have come back from a national league championship game, and tell him that he didn't think he was good enough, we are starting nine, I've had to tell pro players, and I'm sorry that, in my opinion, as a coach, you're not in our starting lineup. And that's Yeah, as you could imagine, doesn't sit well with the baseball community. But it's funny that the pliers that then given the honor of starting the sense of pride that says, Well, he's actually believing in me that for this given day, he thinks I'm in our best nine. It's phenomenal what that creates, when it comes back to culture, if the culture has been driven for years, that devastation can be handled by players come get around those that are devastated. If you don't have a culture, then it becomes an us versus them mentality. Of You see, players and I look a lot in English soccer, players that aren't starting will sit on a bench, and they seem so disinterested in the game in front of them. Whereas if the culture is on one or 20, then they are itching to get into a game. And that's where I found that over the course of the journey, when I have to tell a devastating news, My only advice is I say it to people with the whole team there. Because it's not an individual decision. It's an individual outcome from a player. But I always will try to make it with a group there because that decision is made with that whole group in mind. So therefore, then that the joy and pain is shared by 20 people in the case of a baseball was to define rather than an isolated sorry, you're not playing and you are now an isolated individual. So that would be my only advice for that I now I have to make those tough, tough decisions by doing as a collective group[PB17] . Unfortunately, it's an impact decision for 20 players and not just one.

Paul Barnett 33:02

Peter, I'd like to ask you, you come across as being very principled. And you talk about the gray hair giving experience. But you also come across as a great learner as someone who's always interested in learning and developing themselves. Is there any? Or are there any particular resources, books, courses, websites, that you found helpful as a coach,

Peter Giles 33:23

that's funny boy, I'm in the lockdown here it has made you probably probably use the internet more than I ever would. So I love documentaries. And the last one I watched was on the Australian cricket team, it's called the test, obviously, you might have seen it. And that's funny because certain lines in whether it be movies or documentaries stay so true in my mind. And there was a line by Dustin Langer. In that documentary, he said, and I can't remember who he's talking to. He said, I never went to Harvard at all. But I certainly surround myself with people that get so what I use for that is, I know that I'm not good in many areas. If I can surround myself with people that are good in those areas, then that's what to me is what the art of coaching is, I just find Paul, the biggest website or tool is probably the people that beside you or that you know, it's the coaches that I find that believe that they must do at all have the least success, whether it's the business owner, or whether it's the coach that surround himself with people that are far superior in their in their field, then that's what creates a good coach. It's funny you look at all sports now dilute that coaches, their actual coach to various people, and they trust people to impart their knowledge that then that all comes under the umbrella of the head coach for Is there a website or is there a tool? The biggest tool is don't be afraid to bring people in who are better than you have all the things gray hairs done to me, Paul, this made me realize that surround yourself with money Really good people, and therefore, through whatever force of nature, you look to be good. I think if you coach by websites or coach by booklets, I think you have to leave yourself open to stereotypes and robotics. I just believe that there are so many people who are just good at certain areas, I try to impart their knowledge through them on people.[PB18] And then I try to get players and this is through the lightest one we've done is the academy for baseball is we're trying to get better and go to college, I say there's never right one good way of doing something. And I always use the analogy, Paul of golf. The hardest one in golf is the part and a part of a club body moves six inches, but the number of techniques apart move. 60 inches is astronomical. There are many ways of making a skill in baseball work. The trick is to try to find the right way for each individual. And the only way to do that is by bringing people in with all various ways of achieving a skill. That's my technique, Paul, surround yourself with people who have been to Harvard

Paul Barnett 36:06

greater to failure. Thank you. I have one last question for you. And it's this, what legacy Do you believe you've left in are leaving as a coach.

Peter Giles 36:13

It's funny because there's a play we had called Josh Davies. Josh Davis was a phenomenal player. He playing Junior baseball through Western played for the National League for the aces games record holder, played for Australia, and was paramount to our success in Essen. And he finished up coaching going to jilong. And in his first year, he won a Premiership in July, they were the side that beat. So to break our streak. And I got a message from Josh, probably four days after the grand final. And he said Pete, I finally realized now why you coach, he was sitting back in a pumping jalon. And he coached along to their sideline first seconds and thirds, premierships all in the one year. And he just sat back in a corner by himself. And he just looked at the joy that everyone in that club was at God wasn't just because of the first. But it was just the joy from the older people to the wives and girlfriends. And he said, there I know why you coach. It's not because of the statistics, or the medals or the trophies. That's actually saying people just happy, so simple. But when you can sit back in a room and see so many people of all age groups and all walks of life. just embrace and feel is only a part of something. For me. That's what it's all about. And what it is, is seeing people[PB19] . As I said to you, when I first started with those players, who were teenage boys became men became parents became far as seeing that and seeing them grow as cliche as what it is Paul, that's what drives me. That's why that the legacy is that they became good people, not because of me, but because of what they were a part of became good people that before the things I could be loved to be known as nothing to do with trophies, but it was actually turned out to be pretty good[PB20] . Like,

Paul Barnett 38:13

I think that is an amazing place to end this interview. It's been lovely to talk to you some fantastic insights and gems there for everyone that's listening in for me too. So thank you very much for your time today.

Peter Giles 38:25

Absolute pleasure, Paul. Absolute pleasure. Stay well. Stay safe. And it's been a pleasure. It's been my honor to talk for