Pullela Gopichand Edit
Tue, 11/30 9:33AM • 34:24
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, sport, people, important, badminton, players, play, won, athletes, training, life, junior, system, hyderabad, feedback, called, fitness, copy, match, world
SPEAKERS
Pullela, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Good afternoon. Pullela Gopichand and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Pullela 00:05
Thank you very much for having me.
Paul Barnett 00:07
Copy I have been chasing you for so long. So I'm very interested to talk to you today and hear your story. You are a coach that is spoken about in such glowing terms by so many people. But before we get into that, maybe I'll ask you something really simple to kick us off. Where are you in the world today? And what have you been doing so far?
Pullela 00:27
The last couple of years, there's been very less travel. I've always been in Hyderabad, India, this is southern part of India, more towards the central part of India. This is where I have grown up. And this is where I have my coaching setup as well. And the last two years have been pretty much because of COVID. All the more here but in general, I've always been in Hyderabad,
Paul Barnett 00:52
we're very happy to have a little bit of your time today and look forward to hearing all about badminton, which is of course, the sport that you are noted for. But if I could start by maybe talking to you about some of the great coaches that you've had experience with in my research, I could find that there was MRF there was brackish paddle the corner. I hope I'm getting that right, and get ghuli plus out. Maybe from this experience, what is it that you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Pullela 01:22
Well, for me, I think I was very lucky that I had the right coaches at the right time. Why I say this is sometimes a great coach who's training you at the highest level may not be the one right for you at the beginning stages. So for me, I had a coach called Hamid Hussain amico sensor was my coach when I started badminton in 1985. And when I started playing, he didn't teach me many things on the sport. But what I remember what I clearly think was his biggest help was that he made me love come to the stadium, he made me come to play the sport. And at that point of time, he was the best coach I could have had. It was not anybody with the greatest of knowledge or science, or produced champions, but somebody who made me feel comfortable to play the sport, want to come back tomorrow and make me Aspire or think that Badminton is a fun place to be in as an 11 year old. I think that is all I could have asked for. And it was great to have him at that point of time. I had artists about four years later, a boat 1989 That was a time when I was transitioning from being a fun kid coming to the play, to wanting to be something and he was the right person for me to tell me about discipline. He was the right person to put some structure around, because he was a very strict disciplinarian. And as somebody who's 1617 year old, I think it was important that we needed somebody who would put that element on, which was very, very important discipline and structure and hard work. I think that is what he made. And he was at the right time at the right place for me and breakfast, sir, was my next coach for me more than what he taught His presence. And the fact that he had won the old England in 1980. He was somebody who had achieved the highest medal of the title in the world at that point of time, for us to see him and in real, to actually interact with him, to LISTEN to Him and to learn from him and to actually think that we can also be like him, having heard from him that you can try to be better. I think that was what was important at that point of time in my career. So after him I had Ganguly Prasad, I was 2726 years old back then that was kind of the prime age for sport or with the lack of sports signs and physios and nutrition people would kind of retire at late 20s and early 30s. So it kind of it was the fag end of my career, so to say but I wanted somebody and he was there like a friend to me. And he we could share a lot of things we could plot things we could be discussing, maybe sometimes not argue but I could pull his leg a little bit. And I was close to his family. And so these things really helped at a later stage. And to be honest, my journey of talking about coaches won't be complete without the mention of two other coaches. One would be in 91 and 92. I had a Chinese coach called longshoreman who was there? He was from China. He actually was For a couple of years, but he actually taught us what real badminton training was, how hard you needed to push, we were never used to picking up weights or running, or finding ourselves really tired after training. And he showed us what the world was training like. So he was very, very important in my life. Coach who came in was Soo Young, I played for a club in London fell in Germany. And he was the coach of the Lang Infeld. club team. He was somebody who's influenced me quite a bit in my formative years. So I think I just look at my journey. And I feel a lot of divine grace in it, because it was almost as if somebody had plotted the right people in my life at the right time. And that's why I feel blessed about having each one of them at the right time. And that makes me so happy or makes me so grateful for this journey and life of my
Paul Barnett 06:02
copy, you started that answer by talking about 9095. And insane. But if I could take you back there for a minute, because I've read that at that time, you were a young boy who was breaking window panes at home, and it was your mum, who actually said, We better get you down into a cricket team, that of course, you didn't get into that team. And then you tried tennis. But as you say, there was too many cars parked outside. So you went to the badminton hall that was empty. So your entry into bed was by chance. And I was wondering, how does that experience shape your coaching philosophy now that you're looking for young players,
Pullela 06:37
for us back then Cricket was the only sport. Luckily today, there's a lot more different sports in the country, which we think are possible. But for me today, when I look at kids, I don't think you can plan that you will become a champion, or you can actually be going to take this as a carrier. I think it's very important for us to understand that fun, and enjoyment of sport should be a primary objective of a kid coming through. There might be few parents, a few champions who have been structured because they've made it all the way. But I think primarily, it's very important that people come and the kid enjoys the sport. And you don't know whether what will happen. I think every step you climb, you see that the next two steps are possible. And then you take those two steps, and then you can climb another two steps. I think that is the philosophy which I have.[PB1] I think I go back to what my coaches have done. hamidou sensor didn't think of me as a champion, he just thought that this kid should have fun. And if I have fun, I'll come back the next day. And if so, was determined on the process practice showed me the what is possible. And then in the end, Ganguly Prasad and me work together to make it happen in some sense. But to be fair, I think people coming in with a plan that I will make this a carrier at the very beginning of their sporting life, I think doesn't happen. So for me, I'd say Come, have fun, enjoy the process, refine the process. And if you have it in new to make it big in the world, I think it's unfair. On the talent you have that you don't give it the right direction or give it its total True Potential
Paul Barnett 08:36
copy a turning point in your career was winning that junior badminton championship in 1991 in Goa, can you explain to us why that was such a turning point for you.
Pullela 08:46
I think for us to understand the topography or to understand the geography and the culture of the place, we are in what we call a Telugu speaking state, where majority of the people end up especially during that period of time as engineers, so most of the software guys who would see across the world, a lot of them would come from this part of our state. So it was the only proficient so to say for many of us growing up. So for me also it was the same in the sense a the you need to take maths, physics and chemistry as your primary subjects in your 11th and 12th standard. And then you go on to become an engineer and or you take biology and you go on to become a doctor. So these are the only known professions and I was also in that path as well. But for me, in my family, my brothers gone to the best school in the country. It's called the IIT. And he went on he later to be a software engineer and a scientist. But many of us in the family all my cousins have also done this Same order and the friend circle is also the same. So when I was playing, I was the smaller guy in my age category. And I would not win any tournaments other than the state championships. So when I would go for the country's tournaments, I would actually lose in the initial rounds. And parents were really worried, but this guy can make it as a carrier in sport or not. And I was given this one year to play badminton, where if I was winning at the national level, I would continue to play. If I wasn't winning at the national level, I will be forced to go back and study and that year was 1991. And luckily for me, I won the junior nationals in that year played for the country in a test match against Malaysia as a home entrant in Hyderabad. And more importantly, I got a job in Tata Steel, as a supervisor and sports supervisor, which kind of put the apprehensions of me not being able to do anything with my badminton, but at least he can get a job. And that kind of set the path for me to take sport as a carrier, badminton as a carrier,[PB2]
.
Paul Barnett 11:18
I'd like to jump over the fabulous playing career that you had, and all the trophies, because that's been spoken about a lot. And I'd like to talk a little bit more about the coaching that you do with young people. And I'd like to start by playing back a quote that I have from you, actually, and you say, the biggest driving force for me is to change the contours of Indian badminton, what I missed as a player, when I peek, I am just trying to ensure that my trainees shouldn't. So I'd like to ask you, could you tell us about the academy that you've set up to help fulfill this mission, as you've articulated it there,
Pullela 11:51
Paul, when we talk about sports, today, we're talking very different things. We talk about sports signs, we talk about nutrition, field, psychology, physiology, and a lot of different things. But back then, growing up for me, the challenges were very, very different. You'd go to the stadium and waiting, if the watchmen would come, we'd be waiting if we go inside the electricity was there or not. If we go inside coaches, shuttles, everything was an issue, we would have a marriage function in the ground, and the the ground would be closed, we would have elections and the stadium would be taken up for two to three months to keep ballot boxes of the election. So for us, for me, growing up the sport, I've played more football, because of lack of shuttles, I go to the stadium shuttles were too expensive for us to buy in, play ourselves. So if nobody is giving us or the government doesn't give us, then we actually would play football. And that's what we would actually do spend a lot of time doing. So for me, when I won the All England, it almost tried to me that if I can win the Arlington, anybody can. And that is what the mindset was. And also, the other thing for me was, I was very fortunate to learn from a lot of coaches, about the sport. But also a lot of things which I learned work by trial and error, whether it's the kind of game I need to play the mindset which I need to have the strokes which I need to play the speed at which I need to play the food which I need to eat the preparation to matches all of these, in my mind were both done after a lot of trial and error. So it helped me find out what worked.[PB3] But actually my life it never, I could have done these things better and quicker.
So for me when I won the All England and when I actually finished playing, I almost felt I had this great formula, which was there which was available to me to win. But unfortunately, I didn't have the body in me to use it. I was already had three four knee surgeries. Three on my left knee one on my right knee, I had multiple metatarsal fractures and my right foot and then my body was breaking down. So I almost felt an urgent need or a drive to use the formula which I had found out after years of playing. And that is when I started to where I jumped into coaching to ensure that I find the bodies which can I can use and the only thing which kept reminding me was if I can do it, many others can and that is how I jumped into coaching[PB4] .
Paul Barnett 14:49
Wow. There was a little bit of a journey from that moment to 2006 when you became the Indian national coach and your old teammate out of enbart says there was a grand rebel In the tough, because when players went to competition, you wanted them to stay in camp on their work and fitness, but they obviously wanted to do other things like eat well and go out and sightsee. So how did you manage this tension within the team when you first became the national coach?
Pullela 15:15
To be honest, I didn't want this position as much. There was the president, Mr. Vijay Varma, he was an international member of the badminton World Federation. So when he went out, people would say Indians are good, they have good skill, but they don't have the fitness. And given a chance, I would have avoided that. And I was wanting to work on the juniors and ensure that they prepare better, but he wanted the results. And he said Gopi, we, I think we should go for it. Because it is very evident, that if these players it worked a little bit on their fitness, the results will be totally different. So there was this grand rebellion, it just was painful. Because it was not something which was my decision totally. But then I understood that the position which I was in, and the way things are, you need to actually work together with people. And sometimes you have to absorb the blame, and the pressure, even if you're not the reason for it. So I kept quiet, I kept working on a few things. And luckily, not very quickly, it took a couple of years for things to move around, and the new generation of players to come on and start beating the other players. By then some of them realized and all of them realize now that we could have done better if he had actually gone with groupies plan, you've been very vocal
Paul Barnett 16:45
about this plan, this focus on fitness and the need for training to never be comfortable is the words you use, so that the match can look effortless. A lot of people will be listening, wondering, how does one train or prepare for badminton. So I'm wondering if you could share some of the details of the elite training program you put together for your best athletes,
Pullela 17:06
I think badminton as a sport, at the highest level becomes very, very physical. And it's very important that you train beyond your comfort zone. So whether it's strength training, or whether it's endurance, or whether it's killed, in terms of precision, and the power in which you play and the speed at which you play, it becomes very, very important that you train at that intensity, which is very, very important. So I think training physically, is very, very critical. So I think for me, when people talk about mental strength, it's a lot to do with the kind of effort which you put to get yourself physically strong, whether it's the training on ground, or whether it's the rest of off the ground, or whether it's the food, which you take, or the thoughts which you have, I think all of them become very, very important. So for me, a top athlete or aspiring athlete wanting to be a top player needs to revive and be pushing on the process time in and time out, trying to better the process on and on. And it means doing things which are not comfortable, which are out of your comfort zone, pushing yourself on each of these friends, to refine and better yourself on the physical side, whether it's power, strength training, whether it's endurance, whether it's speed, whether it's technique, whether it's endurance, all of these things, you have to raise the bar, and the on the other side, you have to ensure that you're mentally stronger on court, you're mentally balanced, of course, your relationships are sorted out, you're going on court and being smarter, you're tactically and you're on court, refining your strokes and adding more strokes to your game all the time. So all of these things are to be done relentlessly at whatever level you are. And that is what real true professional service[PB5]
Paul Barnett 19:09
copy. You have this coaching policy where you say, the junior must challenge the senior and the senior must respect the junior witch, knowing a little about Indian culture, I can understand why you would say that. But perhaps could you elaborate for our audience and explain why this mindset is so important to you as a coach,
Pullela 19:28
I think when you are playing, you want each player to go up and up and down. You want the junior to start at the senior and say I can beat you. And I think that's very, very important because the general mindset in India is that you respect the senior and you put your head down and anybody age wise a little superior or position wise, a little superior, you tend to actually first thing is you bow your head down and say We accept it. But then in sport, it's very important that you actually challenge the senior you have to go and say that I'm going to beat them. And it's equally important. Strangely, for the senior to respect the junior because of the seniors are not respecting the juniors. And they think that the juniors can never challenge them. They will be very cloud complacent. And when you are complacent or overconfident and you lose a match, the effect it has on your mental confidence is too much to handle. It takes a lot of time for people to recover, when they've actually been overconfident in a match and loose because of overconfidence. So I think from that perspective, it's very important that the senior respects the junior and believes that if I am a little lazy, or if I am a little loose in the attitude, I he will catch up with me. So it's very important that he respects the junior and the junior needs to go after and challenge the senior because eventually, performances don't come gradually, performances come by leaps. And for that leap to happen, you might have the physical ability, the technical ability, tactical ability, but if you don't have the mental ability to challenge the top, then even with having all of those things you will lose because in your mind, you have not taken the challenge up. So it's very important for both to actually have this attitude,[PB6]
Paul Barnett 21:32
copy, you're very calm. It comes across in the TED talks you've done in the interviews you give, even in the tone that you're using in this interview. But you're also known for being very direct with your feedback to athletes. And I'm wondering if there any particular methods, tools or styles of communication you use when giving that feedback?
Pullela 21:52
I think, especially if I'm dealing with juniors and young kids, it's very, very nice feedback. It's always good feedback, very positive, very, ignore the mistake, stay with the positives kind of feedback. It's always fun. So you want kids to actually be in that environment. But as professional athletes, I think it's important for athletes to know what is really wrong. And yes, I think for me, I think that's something which I do is give them the feedback, whether they like it or not is up to them. Because one of the things which I always feel is very important in life, which I think is very important, especially for us in life. And I've been very fortunate that I have parents and have friends who will tell me things if I'm wrong. And all I expect from them is if I'm wrong, just tell me when it's wrong. Because many times when players go up, you have a lot of people around who tell them all the good things which they need to hear, but not necessarily what they have to hear. Because there is a difference between people. When they say I want to do this, rather than you need to do this, I think it's important that it is there has to be some person who's telling them, right the way it is, rather than actually always telling them what they want to hear. And this is especially true when athletes start going up.[PB7]
Paul Barnett 23:22
Interestingly, this feedback theme is something I wanted to talk to you about to in relation to one of your athletes, which is Cindy. And the second time you were coaching with a you were very firm on fitness and social media requirements, which of course is a big issue for many parents, coaches and leaders these days. Can you tell us about what happened afterwards, after you made these changes and gave her this feedback? Cindy was
Pullela 23:45
somebody who was training with me from very long, almost about 13 years. So I think, for me, the relationship was very good in terms of having being able to tell her, whatever needed to be told, when it's almost funny that we went to Australia came back, she lost the first round, this was February of 2016. And then my call where they were about nine points which I had made few of them related to the game. Few of them related to food and training. And the last point was that she needs to hand over the phone to me till after the Olympics, I would give it back. And she gave it and I took it and I gave it back only after she won the Olympic silver medal in Rio. So I think for me that thing was important at that point of time, because it's not about the fact that you're away from social media. But I think the fact that every time you feel that you don't have a phone in hand, you remind yourself or it remembers itself that you are sacrifice this for something higher. I think that thought continuously is what is is very, very important. And I think he pays when you actually do these things. And I've always succeeded in methods like this. Today, it's a bit different. Ideally, I would really want things to be a lot more clear, because playing sport is much simpler. It's like good food, good training, good rest, and good thoughts. It's almost as simple as it is. And the best part of a player's life, which I enjoy, is the fact that your focus is very, very simple. It's about these few things. And that's it. But it's also true that today, whether it's the top players in badminton or the other players, there's a lot more social media. So when you get off the flight, first thing on his Instagram, and then how many photos you upload, or how many likes you get, I think I definitely feel it's a distraction, and it is best avoided. Not everybody can handle it well. But even if the people are handling it, well, I would think that it's not without it, it would be even better. But having said that it's an evil which is there to stay, we can't run away from it. I think we need to at least compartmentalize it to the fact and say that I will use it only during these times. And not during these times.
Paul Barnett 26:16
You mentioned something interesting there when you were saying it's all rather simple. And you said good food and good thoughts. And know that you're a proponent of meditation as a means of focusing the mind, but helping people change their internal dialogue. So they do have good thoughts is not easy. Have you found any routines or training methods that have helped in this space,
Pullela 26:37
I think to look at the entirety of sport is important temporality of life is important, we cannot have six hours, seven hours of good training, and rest of the 18 or 17 hours of bad thoughts going on. So you have to look at life in its entirety. So it's very important that you have the right people around you, it's very important that you have the right input which is coming to you. And that becomes very, very critical. It's not possible that you are actually doing all the right things in training, but you are messing up in the 18 hours of the day, it cannot be a formula for success. I think it's very important that we actually manage the things around sport in our life also properly. [PB8] And that is very important. The second thing, I would still think because at the end of the day, unfortunately, one thing which is in sport is a reality, as much as death is to life. Failure is to sport. I think failure is something which is will happen. And we need to be prepared for that, I think it's important that we need to be okay with the fact that we will lose. And we need to figure out ways and means to bounce back is one we can think of. But as much as death is a reality, failure is also a reality, I think, to fall too far down is important. And for that the mind should be prepared to actually be in a space where you're ready to prepare yourself. For the next jump. I think that is very critical.
Paul Barnett 28:12
You say that it's important to have good people around you. But I have this another terrific quote from your copy where you say that I believe that individuals are not bigger than the system. That is why we should ensure a system is in place, because individuals may come and go. The purpose, the process should not end abruptly. Could you tell me a little bit about the system that you're trying to implement in India these days to make sure that the individual is not bigger than the system? When I think it's stuff,
Pullela 28:40
I would be honest to accept that. When we started off in 2004. When I started playing internationally, well, let's say the nine piece late second part of 90s. Sport was much simpler because nobody reported about it. Nobody bothered about us. So it was very easy to play sport you could be hiding. You could nobody really cared about 2004 Five also, it was the same case 2008, nine things started to change a little bit, but especially the formative years of say 2004 to 10 when I was coaching also nobody bothered about us. So there was no intervention in any sense. And then players started coming up, money started coming up, the league started coming up, interaction with managers started happening. Then we had administration and government and a lot of people from outside of sport. Very powerful people have started to make decisions belonging to sport, not necessarily with the knowledge of sport, but just with the authority of sports. So whether you'd have bureaucrats who would be doing that you would have association members who would be big politicians who would be doing it and they're people who've succeeded in many ways. walks of life who are not ready to many times accept the other point of view, even if it is coming from a person who's played the sport or achieved something in sport. So I think for me, the biggest challenge has been to actually move forward in very challenging times, with people who have very different use, sometimes with not performance of sport, being the highest on their mind. But at the end of the day, I would go back and say, okay, at least we made some progress. Okay, it's not perfect, but I can live with, I think that approach is what really helped. Sometimes there were days where I would be very upset. But I would say rather be in the system and try and sort it out, rather than cry from outside the system. So I think that is the approach which I've taken. It's not been the best or the fastest for the results. But it has been a challenging journey is what I would say. So for me today, when I look back, I think when players become powerful, then the system and the system starts listening to the player, then you have a problem. I think it has to be coached led, sport, science driven, athlete centric is the word which I would use, I think that's very important that science has to drive in the system and not the athlete. But what happens is when a top athlete talks, or a talk coach talks, it could sometimes be that you're a top coach, and you're talking and you actually this system becomes code centric, or administrator centric or CEO centric, it should not become it should be athletes centric. And it has to be driven by sport science. [PB9] So we are far from achieving it at the moment. But the dialogue is on, people slowly start to realize that there is merit to how these things people are talking about. It's not that I'm talking about, but anybody who's been in this in any world sporting ecosystem would talk about it. But there are no easy answers to it. So I think it's very important that we produce a system which continuously churns players, so that more and more younger players are challenging the seniors. And that is very, very important.
Paul Barnett 32:27
One last question, if I could, you've said that, and I quote, I think the path somewhere has been made easy by people who have tread the path before us. And so I just wanted to finish by asking you, what's the legacy that you hope to leave as a coach,
Pullela 32:41
I live in the moment, I've played my badminton, as a player, with a lot of energy, with a lot of enthusiasm. I've done my part as a coach with a lot of energy and enthusiasm. And I don't think of legacy as much. I'm happier that's in the 100 floors of Indian sport, or the 100 floors of Indian badminton, I would be there in the first foundation or the first floor is what I really think or look at. But surely, Paul sounds funny, but I don't really think of the legacy but in the sense when I'm gone, it's done. It's gone. It's like that it's so for me, I'm really happy for system comes in place. [PB10] And people who are grassroot coaches are really working hard to produce better and better grassroot players and handing over to the next level. And then the next players go on to the next level, sport becomes more inclusive. Parents look at benefits beyond medals. Governments look at sport beyond medals, and everybody enjoys sport. And each one pushes the other. And hopefully, we have a system where the processes are rewarded more than actually the result in some sets.
Paul Barnett 34:01
I think that's a wonderful place to finish with benefits beyond metals. Follow Gopichand. It's been an absolute pleasure to chat with you today. It's a real highlight for me. I've been, as I said, stalking you for a couple of years. So I'd like to thank you for giving up some time this afternoon to talk about all things coaching and leadership.
Pullela 34:18
Thank you. Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure that Susan's great talking to you