Rodney Eade Edit
Mon, 8/30 6:30AM • 41:48
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, players, people, bit, culture, change, talk, coaching, game, feedback, team, thought, successful, behaviors, club, play, mindset, values, person, work
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Rodney Eade
Paul Barnett 00:00
Sir Rodney aid. Thank you for joining us.
Rodney Eade 00:03
Great to be on border, the other side of the world. So good to talk, Paul,
Paul Barnett 00:07
where are you in the world today?
Rodney Eade 00:08
I mean, no one town in lockdown, except for rolling in locked down here in Melbourne. So greatest place to be at the moment, unfortunately, new rules and regulations and restrictions that are on board so that hopefully we can get on top of this, this crazy situation that's occurring at the moment.
Paul Barnett 00:25
It's a great opportunity for us to steal some of your time and talk about great coaches. And I wanted to start by just asking you about you've been really lucky in your career, you've had some great firsthand experience from some of the greats. Parkin Jane's pagan, and that's just to name a few.
Rodney Eade 00:42
And Joe Kennedy was my first one for one year then, and Parker, then JJ, and then obviously Dennis as well.
Paul Barnett 00:50
What do you think these great coaches do differently from the ones that aren't as successful?
Rodney Eade 00:56
Good question, because coaching has changed so much what good coaches have great coaches a fake klaxon. Whatever, so different term, even though he know he played under john as well. And I suppose the similarities and what you're probably in the older days, and you talk about progression, as well, they're very hard taskmasters, which isn't not as relevant or prevalent today. But I think it's the consistency of message. It's the honesty and integrity, and be able to act now today's really all I say about relationships develop that side of it. But even in the olden days, there wouldn't there was still a bit of that as well, but not as five criteria. But I think it's the integrity that people will this strengthen the three of them really though I had an IM Dennis pagan, North District of character and the string leaders. So you want to even though you might agree with him, at times, it was their conviction and their strength and are able to follow so they're able to not bend other people's minds, I wasn't scared to make hard decisions, which are still relevant today. And I worry about some of the no worries from the word fries. But last night, checking on myself some of the new age coaches and about players and teams not doing what they asked, but you can tell it's very coddling and mollycoddle the players a bit. So this younger generation, probably made it a bit stronger with the direction[PB1] . But anyway, that's, that's my vent at the stage.
Paul Barnett 02:14
I want to talk to you a little bit about the changes that have happened over your coaching journey. But I wanted to just wind back a little bit and ask you a different question to begin with, which is a read where you said you've got to get the whole club on the one page. I don't think you're just a team cage. You're a club coach. So with that context, could you explain the role of the coach today in Australian rules football?
Rodney Eade 02:34
Yeah, there's, it's multi dimensional, obviously. So a vision to the blind with a game plan and where you want to head to be successful, there's a getting the players on board as well as the staff, as a football staff give them direction, but as well as support is trying to get the best out. And so whatever each person needs and player needs, and sometimes it might need to stay in the hand and others will cuddling. So it's about getting the outcomes, you're really role is to get the best out of the person get the best out of the individual. They're not everyone's the same. So you got to treat everyone a little bit differently. But the club coach, I think that you're all gonna be on the same page in marketing and media and whatever administration and they all got to feel that they're part of it as well, because you can't have been pulling in different directions. Now I've heard some successful AFL coaches have really been all about the team and don't worry about the club, causes friction still become successful. So that's Canada, and George, what I'm saying, but eventually that splits open a bit. And there's always a bit of extra, but I think like any organization in a corporate world, there's a lot of things that answer but to me culture and all those sort of things are similar because you're dealing with people and we're all going to come and go now in the corporate world, some people might clock on and clock off and that's my job and we've got aspirations, there probably role players, if you have a footy club, we're just happy to be part of it. But generally, most people are aspirational. They want their own train your company to their own resellers and teams and gritter got their own their goals, they want budgets they want to aim to get and they have to do it together. And quote, well, the marketing department can't work unless the production company works in western South works. They, they all might fight each other, but they all dependent on each other. And it's assignment, a 40 Club, there's no good fighting someone because the end of the day, a free department needs the marketing department because they're gonna raise money for the department to spend it. I think coach has got a vital role of United kind of got the great ability, because everyone's looking at them. And they're the leader of the club have a vital part of uniting everyone together, that they're on the same page.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 04:43
And I guess when you started your playing career back in the 70s, the team was a long time ago. Yeah, well, not so long ago. But I guess the team didn't have all the support functions and stuff that you were talking about. Whereas today, you know, it's a large organization. So what are the the key Big changes you think of curd with that roll over time over the years. Yeah,
Rodney Eade 05:04
you're right. I started coaching senior fully in 96. And I had one assistant coach. So probably when I was playing, certainly Kennedy probably Park out of grey and mjg might have been full time, they went full time as coaches either. So their assistant coaches would have been part time and we had jobs and so so that contact time with the players and development was not there. Slowly over a period of time it changed. And I think my experience, the biggest changes has been the explosion of Olga gaida, full time exposure of assistant coaches then sillery around that, but it is one, high performance is another one. So the analytics of the game, the high performance part, the cyber SPORT SCIENCE area have been probably big explosions and will create an industry within itself. Now with COVID, that's going to be cut back. And it's going to the article, I imagine a lot of sports, we have a big staff that will cut back they have to cut back money. So we've bolstered generally the last few years, I mean up to about 10 probably some previous Evercore got to 12 but generally about nine or 10 they'll probably cut back to five now. So that's been the biggest challenge there. And I think how we prepare athletes the sport sides of it. Now the preparation dietary was always in 2030 years ago but that's gone to another level but not Florida, take a you perform the testing, taking your bloods, etc, etc. How the recovery still doing that haven't got on top off and it's an all sports is softer tissue injury hamstrings. And I'd love to be able to refer the scientific knowledge as right now and be able to preempt and pre predict players when they bout to do soft tissue. So don't play them what you need to do. We haven't got to that stage and still still occurring at a time right at the White House. That's the biggest area I think are those two areas, the ones that exploded last 30 years.
Paul Barnett 06:55
Right? If I could take you back a little bit to your time at Hawthorne, it was an iconic club, one of the most successful periods of time history in the long history of Australian rules football, and many, many players that you were playing alongside with have gone on to become coaches, what was it about that environmental that culture that created such a nursery for future coaches?
Rodney Eade 07:18
That's a good point, I think it's probably one of two or both points is successful teams generally generally spit out gods that are going to cope. So probably as much them thinking that they can catch up because the team's been successful. But also probably other teams think well, they know the recipe for success.[PB3] And I think a bit of probably the men that coached hold on that time generated specially from so much john, and he had the one year under john. But David was very small scientific and his approach and analytical. So that got my mind thinking and changing in his own way, probably a bit more like john, but probably a bit more communication based on relationship by sufficient I probably half the time or so. But that probably generated people to think about just on the on the spot, probably about their time. And Jamie was coaching in the mid 80s when we started to be successful. And he was actually asking me a few more questions. And I think that's generated. Now where we we involve players and especially involve people in the decision making process and giving them a voice and what that does and opened up for questioning and challenging and which is good in one way, but also counterproductive that led up to what they told him Hang on, we've all got a voice. Are you ever lunatics run the asylum. I think it's even that time of changing. I think he provoked our thoughts and guys thought process to think about the book a little bit more. And I think an extension of that was okay. [PB4] Perhaps. I think being a successful group. I think those two factors together, generate a lot of the Hawthorne guys,
Paul Barnett 08:58
I wanted to just ask you for a minute, the bad everyone having a voice because it's leadership groups are everywhere. Now we live in a very harsh culture. Some people have some coaches have a mixed view on them. What's your view,
Rodney Eade 09:10
it's good that people want to have a voice as good, happy feedback. But they've got to accept feedback as well. One of the younger people are the only one positive feedback. I don't want room for improvement feedback, let's call it negative, it's about how you can get better. I was always brought up and joining in the coaching, how we can get people to be better. How can I get you as a player pool to be better now to do to be better? I've got to give you feedback, that's areas to improve. And some people don't want to know that. Just tell me I'm going well, well, not gonna get better. So and that comes back to leadership. I think leadership and culture and Tobin are all linked in the same circle. And you need you're one of those wedges don't work properly. They can all fall down. So good to have a voice, encourage that encourage them to think but we need a good culture, how that career and how that's developed. And then leadership, overseeing that or uniting that together to say, hang on. Yeah. Okay, gotcha boys. But this is the way we're going to go or give them a thought process that they think they're only where it's going to go. Rather than, as I said, before the lunatics run the asylum. And with a leader, I can coaching, sometimes you gotta have to have conversations with guys. They might like, Reverend proven feedback or so. But there's got to be some way you deliver it and how you talk to them about that. And I think one of the education processes that we've lost with this feedback system in the world is how to take feedback. We're very good at how to give feedback, but had you taken and how he interpreted, and then education and talk process on that. And given the mindset, the mindset, I had the mindset, the growth mindset, okay, I'm getting better. It's not a criticism, it's not putting me down, it's about how can I get better, therefore, the team's going to get better?[PB5]
Paul Barnett 10:54
Have you got any coaching tips rod for people out there on how to help people take feedback? Or how to get better at taking feedback?
Rodney Eade 11:03
Yeah, it depends on the individual. Everyone's different. As I mentioned before, entering when I'm playing, and then you read out emails don't catch, you got to treat everyone the same, you can't really run, because we're all got different egos, different intellects, different insecurities, different jobs at play, we come from different backgrounds, different cultures, so we're all different. So if I pull the one lever, every player or every person in the corporate world, it's not gonna work. So you need to get to build that to where the relationship and then work out what the best way to give them how to how you talk to them about the way to take feedback. Generally, I do some education as a group. And then I would talk to him individually and say, listen, all of the feedback we're giving you is only to get you to be better. You'll know if it's a criticism, and I'll pull you aside one on one. And I'll tell you in a stern voice, that's, that's not good enough. So you just got to take that on board the way, okay, so most people get that if you go through, some people still don't, because they're very don't want to know about an issue, then you got to make a decision on iraq person for us to go forward. So then that'll eventually work itself out. But then as a leader, you gotta might have to make a tough call, and have a decision to say, listen, it's not best for our company on this route to move. Now, that's intelligent, but it doesn't fit our culture and where we want to go to.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 12:20
I want to ask you about culture in a minute. But I want to pick up personally on honesty, because I was preparing for today and just chatting to a few people. And the word honesty comes up a lot. When players and people that have worked with you talk about you. In fact, there was an article by one of your ex players a bolo, when he was talking about your style and what he liked best. He said, I knew exactly what he thought of me and where I was in his future plans. And I'm wondering what advice you would have for other coaches on honesty in how to use it more strategically.
Rodney Eade 12:48
As long as you don't lie you can, there's different ways of being honest, it's always come back to and I learned this after a while was probably wasn't great at early, my time is about what's best for the individual. Because my role is to get the best out of that individual. If that person annoys the hell out of me, and wondering whether Tyrone and really across burden is no good me holding that against them. Because I'm foregoing my responsibility as a coach my responsibilities to get the best out of them individual, okay, I've got to take it differently got to compromise maybe my style a bit. But at the same time, there's a demarcation line, that you're not going to cross over, you're saying this is what we stand for this is our values and come back to culture. This is what we're all bought into[PB7] . So back to honesty. So for telling applier they don't tackle or they're a bit soft. Obviously, as you want to know guy, you're probably not going to say that they're a coward, you're not going to get much out of that band, but out of talk to someone about, but you've got to let them know that that's an area of concern. And what they need to say you got to choose your words, which is a plug with that individual, you're not lying, but you're saying, boy, you're probably not aggressive enough, or you got beaten a few times for the ball, you need to work on this area. So when you tell a person their weakness, or their area of improvement, you've got to have a plan in place that you can help develop them to get to where you'd like to get them. There's no good beside you. You don't tackle you're not hard enough. Now try and fix it. Because you're going to fix it. I've got to have a development plan in place and tailor some opportunities to casual handover. This one, this euro four, report card will do A, B and C about training and then we'll monitor you along the way. But we'll get some feedback. And it will reflect it'll oscillate there's not going to be a linear growth as well. But it's just a choice of words. But at the same time you cannot compromise as a coach by avoiding not being honest with people because eventually it'll catch up with you if I don't tell you that you've got a problem that began that I don't like and you need to fix up if I don't do that eventually drop you. You're saying well, why didn't you tell me? What do you tell me what to tackle? Well, it'll bite you on the backside. But Marshall, so at least you told me at least I knew where I stood. At least I knew where I had to work on and I need to get that's what I'm always I suppose that's the three main at Hawthorne was the biggest one was about the artist. And that was upfront and try this is, this is where it's at. And now going to it's a very instantaneous, it's not like, well where have an annual report every 12 months or you got stakeholders or investment people, it's weekly. So any got a lot of invested people, your supporters and sponsors the media and you're getting reported on not only they made tough on pliers, but as a team so you there's instant feedback in your face. So it's no good dealing with someone over a six month period unless you see them. They're young and they long term it's about Okay, we need to get better the next week or two, the next three weeks, we need to see some improvement or otherwise, we have to make a decision at selection go back. So there's a lot of elements that go into it. But I don't think you can avoid by being honest with them. Because that will come back. And you'll lose credibility with replied so we didn't tell me and then now told you otherwise. And that starts to erode[PB8] . So
Paul Barnett 15:58
turns out Ronnie that you've you've matched your honesty, with not being afraid to face into conflict, which is something a lot of coaches struggle with mining for conflict, trying to resolve it opening it up all the time. Is it something that you've worked on as a coach?
Rodney Eade 16:13
I'd prefer not to have conflict. I think everyone online. But thing might be what do you how you'd like now about a conversation. And at times, it's because of personality that people what I've learned along the way you can better at it probably early on, probably too much of the conflict and say, Well, this is why you do it. You don't do it. Quite stern. But you learn that the receptive mechanisms of people when their interpretation of things, it's about doing more investigation work. And that's done by communication and asking questions, you find out what they like. So they might misinterpret what I said in the start with so you ask them Do you understand and give them voice to ferret that back to you. So it's probably my mistake by them may assuming that they understood what I was talking to them about. Sometimes they didn't interpret it the wrong way. So it's about taking a bit more time[PB9] . And but if there is paid on conflict, well, there is. And sometimes it's more about the sidewalk. Now this is why we're going this is what we're doing this the plan this our model wants you to be able to do if you don't can't do it. I don't know if I can play it. So this is mine, for me was the Michael Jordan daco. Did you see that? Yeah, interesting one for me out of all that was the Scott Pippen one where he got upset. And the perception of Scott Pippin. Pray that and even post that and during the daco was why I had the swing mat, the number two one supportive of his teammates, and how a real positive but that game where he wasn't given the ball to win the game. And he spent the dummy really, and then he was challenged by his teammates in the change rooms, which I thought was great. That's a good culture. That's been our challenge. The coach didn't have to do that. So that was that was terrific. But then, so therefore he's the souped up and they won the game that should override everything. We're here to win. We're not about individuals. That's my village, I suppose time per second or 30 left john kennedy. And that's End of story. And then Samuel Jackson's made the tough call given to whoever the Croatian guy I think, and one of the guy and but then Scott Pippen when he's interviewed said, on, on still dirty on an institution or give me the ball. And I thought, gee, that's a really deep insight into the individual that it is 95% fantastic. But this 5% is still wants to be the man I suppose basket. Not critical basket, only five players can be more can more be more the case where one plug in Domino. That was, how phil jackson handled all that. And what a great man manager he was to be able to work that through and have those egos involved.
Paul Barnett 18:46
Can I talk about culture now actually, because you took over from the legendary Ronda Rousey in 1996, at Sydney, and you started or had it, you know, had a big part in building, I think what's become one of the most famous sporting cultures in Australia are definitely will be I think when the history books are written in the future, and that was the culture of the Bloods at the Sydney Swans. I'd like to understand what advice do you have for coaches out there who are trying to improve a team's culture? What things do you think they should do? First,
Rodney Eade 19:13
you've got to believe in first that you have got a cultural problem. And then you want to have a culture and what that culture means not because pretty nebulous word, isn't it? I mean, you can pluck it out, what is it really mean to me? And everywhere you go, and a couple of other I'll have they evaluated these values based error values up in the wall, you walk into a corporate room, corporate office, to me, that's a box ticking exercise that says, Oh, we've got values, but do you abide by them? And really, culture is your ethos that stands every day, it's your habits. It's habit forming, you're consistently over and over again, to get to that stage quickly. You need to work out your values, but it's the behaviors that drive those values. For me, culture is from the bottom up, not from the top down. It's not the bottom Or the CEO or the coach showing this is what our but this is what our culture is. And this is what we stand for. You go down and do it, you're not going to buy into it. It needs to be the workers. The players are the one or a team situation that they drive what they want to stay for, what do you want to be known for? [PB10] What I mean, when I first went to the Western Bulldogs and posed that question to players, they had no idea what I've about, I just said, Oh, and a few plays with Daniel James Syracuse, Robert Murphy came up to me and said, Listen, can you just take us to when you coach, now we'll do what you tell us to do. Now, we don't want. So I'm in my first year, the Bulldogs thinking, well, this is what I believe in God, Texas, city, and I want to get them to own the team, and then to drive the behaviors. So I still drive the ship as far as with gameplan, and tactics and strategies and management, all those sorts of things. So I do balance an act of my first year of getting them I did an exercise with them. And out of this exercise came that they just lacked confidence and self belief. So Oh, wow. So I thought, Well, how do we get the conference itself way so that overrode my thoughts about the cultures had to juggle two at one time. So I ended up getting them by the end of the year, a lot of confidence itself, like just miss out on the finals, were half a game bit unlucky. And that's how the conference was submitted. So things that were done during that first year, the second year was okay, boy, what do we want to stand for now? And I remember, the first year when we had that meeting, no one spoke. And then Scott West, when I best unfair said, I want to be known that whether we're six guards up or six goes down, that we're still respected by our parents, and by us, our supporters, that we're still having a go. So I love the word perseverance. But hear the word mind monster, just one way is compete. What is competing, right? So we had about five words we came up with, so you help drive them a bit, I suppose steer them to get, but it was the behaviors that went to those words to those values. So what is competing? blockhead? What do you guys as players? What do you think compete means? What do you want to see in your teammates, or their competition. And we spoke about professionalism. So it's about me work out KPIs how we can measure those behaviors, Game Day, but also on our preparation, off field. So we split that. So it's pretty basic, in many ways. And then we it's easy to get all that there is about having the voice and the environment and safe environment. Players can check each other on that and say, hang on, I remember in adding on Hawthorne that one of the young players picked up Luke Hodge about he wasn't his behavior didn't go to the value. And Hodge took it on board said, Yeah, I think it's great. Okay, thanks for telling me that I should have what I've heard at other clubs, the best plan competition who best plan their team was picked up in a review meeting. And he didn't chase an opposition player and that player could go and the young person put it up and then got pulled over cards while the coach but you shouldn't have a girl that the best player, that's why they trust again, and your value system falls apart. Because we all need to be able to be on the same page. Now, it's a tricky thing. And it's a it's a journey. It's not a destination, it's ongoing all the time, and those values may change. So if you had that in your business, you'd have the club, you'd have the corporate values wherever they are. But then each team or each cell might have something a little bit different, pertaining to walk, biking can be each other. If you've got that in a group, it makes the job of the culture much easier because they it's a self regulating check many times, I call it, it's the watercooler stop talk. Now people go to the watercooler and say our portable not about Rodney, what about what he said there? And that feeds negativity. It's like a cancer. Well, you got to go knock culture, that person job. So hang on, let's bring that up for the meeting. Let's have a chat. We have to talk about it. So subject water cooler chat, but also but that's it in a nutshell, really what you need to do, but you need to believe in it, and you need to monitor it.[PB11] And then you have a leadership group that, okay, where are we going on this how we think and decided one way to will person exercise that have you ever chat with him and market on projects to help develop their leadership as well. So I'm Tom, Rodney, you
Paul Barnett 24:08
just talked a little bit then about a couple of things. You talked about persistence in your talks about confidence and self belief at the Western Bulldogs. You have the I guess it's the an enviable record of being the longest serving NFL coach without a Premiership, but you keep going. You just keep going. You keep putting yourself out there you keep churning away plying your trade. And I think it's fantastic. And it comes through in the words that are written about you and the way that the the players react to you as well. But I want to talk a little bit about self doubt and how you've helped players deal with that doubt particularly in a game like Australian rules football with fear can play a big part in people's performance on the field.
Rodney Eade 24:48
Yeah, ginger and now looking back, Tom, you're talking about mental health and I hear about some players or mental health that I coached and players are playing against. Players are coached against We probably didn't do enough investigative work about you put an arm around them at times, probably struggling. And now with the Miko, well, it would have been like the coach, and now it knows I would know about it. But I think there's a catch, right? There's genuine self doubt of actual players are talking about tiny locket in a minute. But the best players down to the youngest player. So it's all about about, I think as a coach, it's interesting. You don't have five and I didn't really real fit. But you tend to gravitate or like players who work the hardest, and arguably the best player, but players who fish itself my ones are coming out to the odds. But also you might have some of the best players like a Paul Kelly and Sydney was one of the hardest workers. So he was Captain him on a railroad but you just gravitate towards the respect. And so what do you do that trust you trust them, because you know, they're working hard. So when they're going through a rough patch, that's not through lack of effort, or I'm doing something I feel that's wrong with their diet or their sleep, or whatever the case may be. So you tend to put them arm around them more more and find out more about them. And so ones that you know, might be drinking during the week and you go or so you probably ride them a bit harder with maybe it needs to be a bit of an around the shoulder as well. It's just an interesting bet on the football front with a pliers going through a tough period. And probably the other support that I noticed cut waste guy that three, four weeks ago, and media cover media, people finding out about Tyler Walker from Adelaide, he was really struggling. And I said what would you do with it? Because I can't freeze head. And I said, well, it's more about having a chat with a missile. I think what I learned over a period of time and have it ever taught and fine, especially they've got credits in the bank, or they've played for a while find out what they think is best for them. And I've even done with some younger players, what do you think's best for you to be able to get your phone back to get your confidence back? What do you think it's best? Now the options are, we keep working on it hard on the track and I there's no substitute for hard work. If it keeps on the side, I'll give you certain goals to rich which are quite a tricky data on this but a quiet achiever walk and then the tick that off, the result will look after itself. Or if you're compensated short, you need to go back to reserve. So what I'm asking you is Tyler is now move to what's best for you narrow counterpoint, if it continues now we'll probably need to make a selection issue. But I don't think it's at that stage yet because your conference is down. So how can we get your conference back and generous or have like so much plays with Silas all the way through with pride, my camera started me make a tough decision on him. Someone said to me, now I think I need to go back I'm really struggling, confidence wise and I've just defeated before I go out. So you probably get a sports psychologist to help them. But going back to the tos and I get a couple games under their belt and the world change and then you got to try and take the pressure off them as well by doesn't have to be as good as they perceive them what they think they're gonna have an output. Interesting one for me was Tony Lockett, when I first started coaching. Not that I was a great player, but it was an okay play. But I was good. I was lucky enough to be in a very good side. I just thought all great players just had the game covered. So they're okay, they're fine, probably made a catch. I don't need to worry about tiny and a few others. And then I had a disagreement with Tony, early my second year, his first year, we had a really good season, he played really well reasonable relationship with Him. And then he's answered to me after we had arrived, he said all my expectations, I kick it every week, and I get three bucks. So he's putting this enormous amount of pressure on himself. Before every game he would vomit before we go on pause and talk about life about it early. But it was all about anxiety and about him putting so much pressure on himself. And I'm thinking shivers. Okay, now I know that I need to be better at what I do. When I talk to Tony Lockett, I need to know that he never let his guard down too much. But just to let him know that you're there and help support him here and get around if he's ever down, which was period control every player. So that was another learning he learned on the job that, okay, you can't take it for granted that magnet assessment, or assume anything with anyone and say, could I imagine you're in a corporate world, you're in gym and probably think, well, that person doesn't matter. They're arrogant of that cell phone I've been working. So you make assessments on people, where might they might be insecure, they might have problems at home, though. There's a whole range of raft of reasons why people may be the way they are. So that's where you need to have that, develop that relationship and have a talk and don't talk about the job at hand, whether it's football or whatever, progress something else, or there are issues we can help with there for support. So it's a complex maze of emotions is dealing with every day and that's part of the coaching you take up and I suppose a CEO or a manager or any company as well. You've got to take that on board. You can't just lock yourself in your office and be away from him.
Paul Barnett 29:48
You know, you need to be on the shop floor. Exactly. talking to people I think and understanding the context that's driving the behavior, particularly now with what's happening with COVID in the way that some people are reacting for positively they're enjoying the time at home with their families, other people, not so much. And I think we've had a dry results in different behaviors. Rodney, I'd like to go back to the water cooler if I could, it's such a common issue negative peer pressure, or disruptive peer pressure. It's universal, but how have you managed to deal with it successfully through your coaching journey?
Rodney Eade 30:20
Sometimes, you didn't know what's going on. So probably not as successful. But early on. But yes, giant, ladies, your group you're trying to get by by maltepe. Some things, players generally will only wind your mind, even when things aren't going well, for them. One player at the Bulldogs have got a good plan, but things weren't going well. So he was trying to recruit players to be on his side. Now those players were smart enough to come and talk to me about it. So we're able to sort of see that and try it again, time relationship, players and develop that culture that people have a form that they can voice, it's got to get across to them. It's not personal, people will take it personally. But it's not personal. It's about the team about how so if a player has been criticized for drinking out on night, when he should have been Oh, he's not trying hard enough. Now take that personally, but it's not a personal attack on them. So I'm a good person, not saying you're a bad person, it just saying this behavior, we want you to get right, because it's going to help us win games or football club was going to help us sell more B was going to help us get more marketing opportunities, whatever the case may be, is not saying you're a bad person. So again, taking the feedback the right way. So having that feeling so hopefully generate enough players will talk to some coaches or someone will come to me and say, hang on this is this is happening. So it's about then having a chat with that person. So listen, I understand you're not happy about certain things. What are your thoughts? What are your feelings, and having that conversation, the best advice I can give about having a conversation with Ron, I wasn't very good at early I learned on the way that we've got two ears and one mouth. So listen, whatever they're saying, you may not agree with, but don't interject and knock it down, because they won't talk again. So just take it on board. Because that way, it'll get you more understanding what how they think and what they like, they're not going to change the world. That's okay. And they don't want them to, but Okay, and then you have an emotional response to how you can work them through, they might just be happier that they're spoken about it and try it, leave them with a couple of things to think about, just leave a couple of little green sprouts, just say the seed and then you can go back to that next time. Rather than try and solve everything, we try and solve everything, then you'll get emotional gaghan, maybe your clip or more your your bad. They're what they're saying. And then I put the head up again. So it's a bit of cycle, it is psychology. So as a coach or an amateur psychologist in many ways.[PB12]
Paul Barnett 32:47
These days, you talk a lot about mindset and approach to change in the work that you do with organizations. And I'm wondering if you could just talk about these two topics and what advice you've got for coaches in this area? Yes, change.
Rodney Eade 32:59
I fell using Word of mouth. I suppose all business now I've got to be agile. All the buzz phrases are flexible. Yeah. But to me, I talked about unleashing change. Both words are scary to people. Leadership scary to people who don't want to be a leader don't knowing about it, and change in January, most people don't like change. I don't mind changing. I like being flexible. Even when the game plan or change things around. Let's throw you like that as well. So people throw things at me that giant, archaic, but a lot of people don't. A lot of players don't want to tell you got to work out which ones which. But I reckon in both things, leadership and culture, let's alter the narrative. leadership's about how you can influence that's leadership, how you can influence you can influence, you can be the quietest person who doesn't want to stand up in front of the group who doesn't want a title. But you can influence people by your behaviors and how you go about it.[PB13] In the story, you can positively and negatively American change, we alter the narrative to improvement. So if you're the biggest thing would have been people in counting or accounts or in the corporate world changing from manual documents to computers, God computers, oh, now we've done this around here for 20 years for 30 years. This is not the way we do it around here. Because escape escape have to change. And it'd be things now technology's the thing that's changing, the quicker it's changing our world, how we see things and we're more open to it. But I can imagine the kitchen, then our 2025. When they get to 3540, they might like the acceleration of change, it's going to happen then they might have been stuck in what I were doing. So as a boss as a manager, talking about, okay, we're going to order things, we're going to change things, but see it as a view, how we can improve how we can get better. It's about us getting better. This is what we're going to have to do because the opposition are doing something and if we don't change, we're going to be left behind. So if you don't do that, You'll actually slip back, you might stay, you stay the same, you're actually going backwards because your competitors are going forward and going up the curve. [PB14] So that's my thing is ever try and get a, there's four types of mindset to fit. The two main ones are growth and closed mindset, closed mindset. When I say anything, it's just the way the world is. That's a tricky one for a manager or coach, how we can get people on that balance, consistent message about how we can get better encourage them to push the envelope. And if it doesn't work, I hate the word find it. But if they fall over, that's okay. What are the learnings out of it? No problem with that. That's no drama. What have we learned out of that guy? Next time we can tackle, you know, we can get better in that area. Again, it's a journey, not a destination with it. It's about learning and improving. And once I close mindset, people get whacked in my mind. And I go back again. So it's about encouragement and pushing the envelope and a growth mindset. Once we say, Okay, I didn't work. But what did I do wrong? Let me know. So they're seeking improvement, they're seeking feedback, they want to search for it. And others just don't want to know about that. So it's not embracing change, but it's taking a different look at what changes, most of sometimes the change we get.[PB15] There's lots of different jobs, a lot of chance to get in no control, we've got no control with change. We've given a COVID. One big curveball, the banking sector in Australia last year with the Royal Commission. That's a massive, massive curveball to people in that industry. But if you didn't accept that it was challenging, you're going to be left behind. Okay. What are the opportunities? Okay, it's not the world we know, as we know, the world's going backwards a bit over as much money, what are the catch my v? Okay, where are the opportunities for us to grow and get better? How can we gain an advantage out of this way, it's not limited. So there's that type of change, you can change from moving overseas or moving into state changing houses, different people working next to me, I like my little team, or Johnny and Mary, who have been with me for 10 years, once you have a second one retired, you go, I don't like I can't cope with it. Hang on which. So we've got a, there's a whole range of different changes going on, we've got to understand that show with it, care and support, but educate, okay, we're going to move on it. So it's either looking for improvement, things are done, where we're in control of things that are not in our control. Okay, what are the opportunities going forward? Let's look at our solution, how we can get better.
Paul Barnett 37:25
Rod, you had a reputation as being an innovative coach, you introduced the culture change in Sydney, you brought the I'm going to use the simple term, the flooding technique, you know, numbers behind the ball, you quickly move it forward, was very successful for you. But what do you think stops more coaches from being innovative and embracing change?
Rodney Eade 37:43
They don't innovate at all. Now, it was started to change a little bit. But now it's back to it's all offense. It's all offense. And that's where they go back to simplicity is they'd rather saving golden score ago. So I don't want any mistakes. So too, I've noticed changes have been very creative. And they scared teams, they have a bad day goal scored against and cost the guy that I go back to as like, Okay, let's go. So frustrating. We're all gonna make mistakes. john kennedy had a great saying, which is so simple. It's like an investment, you spend a bit to make a bit. So you're not going to make anything unless you spend and that's in innovation is in effort, as in work right as in time, you've got to spend a bit and overtime on I don't want the downside. You got to think about what the upside and you're going to have some downside to it. So. But I think it's mildly defensive. It's a defensive mindset, scared of losing, sometimes still now, but certainly last few years. They're trying not to lose rather than try to win. So it's, and that gives you that mentality to try not to lose your wife, daughter, macro stakes, you'll just offend them. Hopefully, they make the mistake. And we can capitalize on that rather than trying to win and be proactive. That's why I reckon Richmond, their game plan will hold them in good stead again, because they tried to score they're defending Well, they're just going forward, they're taking ground going forward. So many times now go sideways, and backwards and consistent when you have to at times, but it's about the jittering in our guide, the Matthew Scarlet mentioned it last year, it was so true. And probably having start having the year before that we used to defend, we still do but defend when we haven't got the ball in opposition got balls away, defend. Now we defend with the ball in hand. So we're going slow. So we can set out by defensive mechanisms. If we turn it over, they can score. So you're not going to score yourself. I can't see how teams can see the defense mechanisms are that good that if you don't try and score you're not going to score. You're gonna end up with three and four goals. What's happening at the moment was sometimes they just try not to score bad I think that's so they're not innovative anymore. I don't need a bike because it's gonna have to take a risk. They're risk averse. It goes back to spend a bit of makeup is like not the norm again. But you got to spend a bit of the megabit, you got to spend on an investment property and do it up to make a bit of money, otherwise, you're not going to get anyway. So that's the mentality. Really simple format.
Paul Barnett 40:12
Right? You've been super generous with your time today. I'd like to just ask you one last question if I can, and it's about legacy. And you're still actively coaching. And I'd like to know what you believe the legacies that you're leaving, or have left as a coach.
Rodney Eade 40:28
I'm really thought about that poll. To be honest, I like to think, have a legacy of hard work, think always promoted and coming back to your university. But think about football. Think about why things are done by your own coach, and think about how you can do things better digest worry about being told what to do[PB16] . I found today's youngsters really, very narrow minded learner very easy. Teach the mind teach them be you get to see. And when you verbally, they forget about it. And they just do what you what you've told them. Oh, hang on, this is layers we're building. So you don't think because there was another theory that too, because I've got Google and Siri and everything else like that. There's no problem solved anymore. They've got everything's done for them. So they have to think so. And I think that's a problem with younger people where we used to have to strategize or think about what how we be problem solvers, and we can get an answer. So more on that just just stretch your mind think about things to work out enough. Again, the great Gary pilot golf, a lot of people don't know where to come from how to use it often. But the harder you work, the luckier you get. So we're gonna try to improve at the same time. There's no boundaries and how do you expand it and
Paul Barnett 41:42
have it go on a road EA, thank you so much for your time. It's been fantastic export. Thanks, Jim.