Sue Enquist Edit

Wed, 12/8 9:48PM • 34:13

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, leader, student athlete, career, coach, curiosity, parents, competing, play, standards, win, performance, sports, transactional, game, understand, life, wonderful, athletes, team

SPEAKERS

Paul Barnett, Sue Enquist

Paul Barnett 00:00

Good morning Sue inquest or rather good evening from a deep dark Bucharest. How are you today?

Sue Enquist 00:06

I'm doing great. And good morning here on the Southern California coast of San Clemente Pacific Standard Time.

Paul Barnett 00:14

Could you tell us where you are and what the weather's like, and perhaps what you've been up to so far today? Wow,

Sue Enquist 00:19

it is early here in the morning, right. And I live in San Clemente. And it's a small beach town, a little sleepy surf town in South Orange County. And my first love is actually the ocean. So I identify as a surfer more than I do a softball coach or a consultant. And my days usually start with a morning surf check. I'm always hoping to be in the water first, if there's no surf, then I have to do the dreaded jog or run. It's just a great way to start my day, with that balance before I take on the grind of what life throws at us.

Paul Barnett 00:55

Well, I hope wherever people are listening today, they can sense a little of that sun. And that energy that you have with you today, which I hope we can pull into this interview as well.

Sue Enquist 01:04

Yes, and it's we're in our mid low 70s right now. And it'll probably get up to the high 70s. So we're very fortunate to have that moderate whether,

Paul Barnett 01:13

right? Well, from that point, we should jump into it, then we should start talking all things leadership. And perhaps where I could start so is with some of the great coaches that you've heard firsthand experience with. There's Sharon Beckett's Patty gasso, Mike Kundera, Joe Evans, and, of course, the great John Wooden, I guess, from this perspective, what this experience you've had with all these great coaches, what is it you think they do differently that sets them apart?

Sue Enquist 01:40

I think all those people that you spoke of, are really anchored in their enacted values, I think, a great way to discern a leader that performs over time in their designated title or just in their influence as possibly a mother or father or sister, brother, aunt, uncle. Because the leadership in some instances is a title and in other instances is around influence. And the one thing that all of those have, one thing that they all share is they actually live their values and reached the highest highs and the lowest of lows, and they don't change who they are, despite the conditions that have been thrown at them that lens to a great environment to be influenced by. And so for me, when I think of comparing like a John Wooden to a Sharon Backus, they had really, really high highs and really low lows throughout their career. But when you speak to them one, v1, and you watch them and watch them demonstrate their values through how they prepare, how they compete, how they fail and recover. It's very consistent, very predictable. And that stability is comforting, especially in a time like today where we have so much instability and uncertainty. So those leaders that just live their values, they're enacted every day, I think are the ones that are really winning the game today, around influence,[PB1]

Paul Barnett 03:12

and like to talk to you a little bit about your values. But perhaps actually, if we could go back a little bit and start with some of your backstory, because it's really fascinating. And one of the things that caught my eye when I was preparing for today was the fact that in high school, you actually played on the boys baseball team. Now today, this is very common. But I guess back then it must have been unusual. And I imagine he might have received a lot of negative comments. And I'm wondering, did that experience have any impact either positive or negative? On the way that you went about your coaching later on?

Sue Enquist 03:43

Yeah, well, first of all, to give people context, I competed in high school in the 70s. And I am a recipient of Title Nine access and win that federal mandate. And we're very fortunate to live in a country where we have a federal mandate that protects equality for boys and girls in education in athletics. Now, is it enforced as much as it should be? Probably not. But to know that we have a judicial system that's going to back us, it afforded me the opportunity to have access to the boys team, which was more competitive. And it was quite controversial, because Title Nine was enacted in 1972. And I tried out for the baseball team in 1974. So we're in the infancy of Title Nine. And so for a woman to try to break through these barriers and play with the boys was from an outsider looking in disruptive, but from the inside out. I had a wonderful leader in our baseball coach. Coach clued me I had wonderful teammates that said, we want her on our team. She's got a strong arm and she can hit oppo. So from the internal perspective, I felt very emotionally safe from the outward looking in. It was quite controversial and we would go in play, I led the league and getting beamed people were sending messages. But it really actually strengthened my resolve. And it's laid a foundation for me to really be able to take on anything. [PB2]

But even prior to that, I had an amazing foundation in the way I was raised, because I'm the daughter of a military father, and a mother who was a nurse. So I had this wonderful balance between rigid standards that are not flexible, and around excellence. And a mother who really taught me to remain curious around people and things that I don't have any experience with. And I could share with our audience, that's one thing, if we could just balance that out a little bit. That idea of being around people not like us, and people that traveled on a path, not like ours isn't and shouldn't be intimidating, that should fill us with curiosity and openness.[PB3] And so I already had that at a really young age. And I know the value of being seen and being heard, I understand, when people become advocates for you. It's hard enough to sing your own song around breaking a barrier, but to have other people stand by your side, my teammates, my coaches, it was one of the greatest experience of my life, and it was the springboard to get to UCLA because the media coverage,

Paul Barnett 06:23

well, I want to get to UCLA, but Sue paths, if I could go on a little bit of a journey first, because I've read where you talk about becoming an engineer of belief for your athletes, particularly when they're in a tough spot. And you also use this language around using a learning bridge to help focus them. And I'd really be interested, if you could tell us a little bit more about this.

Sue Enquist 06:45

I think what's interesting is when you become a coach, and if you're doing it as a volunteer or a paid position, you're usually in a position to know more than the student athlete that you're working with. And we get caught up into this really important but dangerous trap. It's an important trap in the sense that we have to measure gaps. This is where you are, this is where you need to be. But we create too much of an imbalance around the distance between those two points. And we have a tendency to needle and focus and point consistently on the fact that they're not there yet, instead of having more of a transformational attitude around teaching, to go down to their level, and to be with them in your infancy of learning, right by their side, not authoritative, but more collaborative. And to look them in the eye and say This part's gonna be hard. But I'm going to be right there next to you, and I'm going to catch you doing it right. I'm going to take your inventory of success. And that inventory Monday through Friday is going to be the bridge, you're going to climb over on game day. So on game day, you feel like you've earned the right to be ready. All we're asking the athlete to do is to climb that bridge to the other side of performance day, the test day, and be able to say I'm ready. [PB4]

I think we've romanticized confidence, I think society has made that some sort of Pinnacle that we're supposed to put on our lapel, or to be able to say, I have this product called Confidence. In my experience, that was elusive confidence was a term used after the fact, I was feeling really confident in that third at bat when I hit the game winner, it's a reflective term for me, all I'm asking my players to do is just say, I'm ready. And believe I can. And that's that simple. [PB5] So simplifying on game day, is the key to climbing that bridge, you can't climb that bridge, if you don't have that inventory.

And as a coach, I'm responsible for being your eyes of development. And I've got to feed you what I see in your development, not just give you that big huge gap, you're here and you need to be there. And that's what we get caught in.[PB6]

Paul Barnett 09:00

So you talked a minute ago about your parents, and you described them as structured, empathetic, you know, military and nursing and medical care. And what's fascinating is your career almost has two halves that match those personalities. There was the early part of your career where you talked around being quite firm, quite strict, quite driven. And then the second part of your career it changed, you became much more caring. And I think this is what you're so well known for now all over the world when it comes to coaching. Did your parents who I know were heavily involved in your career? Did they spot this evolution in you as a leader?

Sue Enquist 09:36

I think they at that point, I was already deep in adulthood. I think they watched it and really could see my strengths and my weaknesses. Early in my career. I was just transactional. It was a contract I had with the student athletes. I control everything. I have the knowledge all handed out and you close the gap and I didn't really consciously know that what was happening because I just was so into competing and getting better and closing gaps on skill sets, and absolutely loved it. But in the process of not listening to the student athlete, to those that are in business not listening to the employee, I actually created a bigger gap of connectivity with our teams. And at some point that is going to take a toll on your student athletes, it takes a toll on your program.

And for me, there was a really defining moment, people always ask, what was the defining moment, because what I want people to know is when you make this transition from being a transactional leader to a transformational leader, transformational meaning, I'm going to be collaborative with you, I'm going to go on this journey with you, I'm gonna listen to your needs, because I am the host the party, I am the servant to the program, and I'm going to facilitate the conditions for you to be your best. It doesn't mean I'm letting go standards, I'm letting go of benchmarks, I'm letting go of accountability, they actually coexist. It's more of a process change. So I never people say, gosh, the end of your career, you got soft, it wasn't I got soft, I just started listening, creating better conditions for my athletes to enjoy the grind of excellence, because excellence doesn't negotiate. If you're supposed to be the best team in the country, there's a very small margin for error. I couldn't let go the standards and say, oh, let's just have confetti and barbecues, Monday through Friday, we knew that wouldn't work. But I could listen to the student athlete and say, Ooh, we've got the majority of the team is really feeling the pain of those seven games in a row that we just had, I can adjust and adapt on Tuesday, and then come on strong on Wednesday and get us ready again for Thursday and Friday competition. And I didn't do that early in my career. [PB7]

And I think, shoot, I think we could have won even more. And so this idea that being empathetic means you have to go standards is not case, it just means we're capable of more as a leader, it's not just a transaction, anybody could do the transaction of coaching, grab a book, play out the outline, they either did or they didn't, you either start your don't start and go from there. But we have to remember 99% of you out there, you're not going to win the title 99% of you aren't going to win the sales contest, 99% of you aren't going to be the top in your industry. So now what are we going to do? What are you hanging on to the one thing we can hang on to is the thing we couldn't crawl. And that's the process and the conditions we lay down for our employees and for our student athletes. And I really felt like it been the last third of my head coaching career, I really felt like, I got a grip on that. And I was able to enjoy it and have them enjoy this process where there's a very small margin for error around performance,[PB8]

Paul Barnett 12:59

just learning about you, it seems to be the part of your career that is disproportionately reported on any way, or at least written about. So if we could just go back a little bit, because what's interesting is that you describe this evolution that you had in your approach and your leadership style. But both styles were very effective. There's 10 Championships in all, there's 8485, then there's 8889 90. And oh three, no four, that's three occasions where you had sustained success. So both approaches work. And is there a common theme around the high performing teams moving forward without a sense of entitlement? Have you managed to coach that and unblock

Sue Enquist 13:39

that? I think so it whether it be stopped ball, I've now worked in volleyball, soccer, other sports. And the thing that's common through all high performing teams is this understanding that we're just a cross section of society. And the leaders in these programs understand that players are driven by performance transactional, and they're driven by relationship, who I'm competing with and how I'm interacting with them. As humans. Some teams have more performance orientation, some teams have more relationship orientation, but the key is those leaders understand what drives their teams. And if the needle is pointing more in one direction than the other, they create the conditions for that team to be heard around what the majority of them want. All of these teams that enjoy success, share the high standard, the high expectation, the high accountability, the great efficient failure recovery, they all share that.[PB9] But I want to go beyond how we our default mechanism is to speak about teams that have won, because in society, it's linear. You won. So you were successful. But I can look back and think about years that we won. And I don't think I treated my student athletes correctly.

If I I could go back, I would change it, I didn't need to be so accusatory I didn't need to be me. I simply can hold the standard without emotion, hold them accountable without being demeaning. And that's where, to our listeners that are veterans. And if you can see me, with the air quotes, veterans, I'm going to encourage you to lean into listening more, and being a facilitator, and not be the person that says, hey, that's just the way I've always done it. Hey, that's me. I'm old school, hey, that's me can't teach an old dog new tricks. That is really antiquated language, and you're telling everybody around you, we're not changing. And when you're in the human capital business, when you're in the relationship industry business coaching is that if you don't have one eye on change, as chunky as it is, you will become irrelevant, you will become a mis manager, and your career is going to either run out of gas, and you're going to leave angry and sour, or you're going to get removed legally, because you don't understand the power of your words and how they land on the student athlete today, or the employee,[PB10]

Paul Barnett 16:13

kind of pick up this idea of change. So because I've actually got a quote from you, I might read it to you actually, before I unpack it a little bit, you say, when you win, takes an incredible amount of awareness and discipline, to stay curious about how you can close the gap between where you are, and what the ultimate team could look like. And what intrigued me actually, when I saw that quote was this idea of curiosity, as a lead indicator of Team improvement. And I'm wondering, you've talked about this evolution you had. But where'd this idea of curiosity, as a key facet of your leadership come from?

Sue Enquist 16:46

Well, I always had that. Even when I was transactional to a fault. I would keep digging and digging and digging to try to find answers.

I'm an innovator. I'm innately an innovator, I'm constantly curious about everything I see in life. Like, why did they build the bridge? That way? I'm wondering what they had to do to be able to create those angles. Why is it that my one player can't hit that curveball? What is it about her kinetic chain? That's not? So I innately had that if you're not innately curious, you have to have the awareness to be disciplined to continue to ask the questions. So I understand that I was blessed with a wonderful gift of curiosity. But if you don't have it, I pray to God you have discipline because discipline will allow you to continue to ask those questions. Because players benefit when they have a coaching staff that is rooted in curiosity, to make sure that the program is continually changing and developing and evolving with obvious standards, right, you're not going to just be picking the latest fad, you really everything is based on fact everything is based on science, as we know that the time and a pattern of success before you adopted as a principle. But once you do that, you got to continually be doing that. [PB11]

And we're in a renaissance right now. I mean, think about it. We're our world, our performance world, whether you're in corporate America or in sports, we're in a renaissance around the employee, the student athlete wants to be treated as the person they are in the work environment, I grew up with put up shut up, go into a box, you're an athlete, do X and Y and get out of here and then go do your life. It was very segmented, it was very compartmentalized, there was a cleanliness about it that I also liked. Now, all those lines are blurred.

And so the challenge with our transformational leaders is how do I create the conditions for everybody to be seen and heard are people of color? How are we creating the conditions for inclusivity and these people to be seen and be heard without us saying, Hey, you educate us? Black person, you educate us on the pain? No, the black person shouldn't have to educate us. I'm a white woman of privilege. I had access from the day I was born to great schooling, great education, great athletics, great facilities, great transportation. So I was ahead of the game. As a white woman of privilege. I have to be the one that goes out and advocates for those people that didn't have access to excellence like I did. We didn't all start at the starting line the same and we've no matter if you buy into that or not. It's a fact. And we've got to answer the call, especially when it comes to laying down that environment for employees to include people of diversity, people with different backgrounds, different sexual orientation, to be comfortable with our LGBTQ community. I always am fascinated by how on one hand people Can love technology, they love their phone. But on the other hand, they don't want to change their leadership tactics. So we were able to adjust around communication technology, why can't we adjust around our own micro relationships that we have with the teams that we're on right now. [PB12] I

mean, to our listeners, when was the last time you saw a payphone? Like we're not even thinking about pay phones anymore, we've moved on so much. And I'm going to ask you to don't have that pay for mindset. Don't be sitting in 1972. Here, putting the dime or the quarter. And once we realize the responsibility as a leader, to be an innovator to be the host of a party. I always tell leaders, I often say, think about leadership, like you're hosting a party. And when you host a party, you provide everything even the thing you don't like, I Okay, here are the veggies. I hate veggies. I love candy. So I got veggies and candy and meat for the party. The minute someone walks in, you're there to grab the door and welcome them in why aren't we doing that in the athletic field? Why aren't we doing that? in corporate America? Why are we grabbing that new employee and saying, Hey, I hope we have everything here for you. We see you. We want you to be comfortable and safe. Because when people feel safe, they'll go for it when it comes to courage.[PB13]

Paul Barnett 21:21

So you have such energy positivity, it just radiates through the screen. I wish everybody could see you talking the way you're gesticulating now. But I'd like to talk about the part from Iran's just then the other most powerful thing heard you talk about is this idea of people having two voices in their heads, the strong voice and the weak voice, and that both voices play a role in our development. I'm really fascinated by this idea of the inner voice and working with people to make it more positive. Is there an example you can share where you've really zeroed in and worked with someone on their inner dialogue and help them evolve and change and improve their performance?

Sue Enquist 21:59

Well, first, let me define it. So everyone can really understand this is from a scientific background, right?

This is scientific evidence that we know that the conscious brain is just a tape recorder of our thoughts. We also know that thoughts that enter from the subconscious, we can't control, we can't control those, those thoughts come to the forefront, unannounced, sometimes uninvited. And that's what I call that weak voice. That weak voice is the one that has the doubt the weak voice is the one that says play it safe. The weak voice is the one that says you're not good enough.[PB14] I mean, even for myself, I tell people this often, even for somebody like myself that's had enjoyed amazing success. Because the people that were around me, that helped me be better. I also want to share with you what I'm not, I wasn't in the normal reading, I refer to books, I had academic disabilities as what we would call them today. Back in the day, it was just you read from the purple books. And when you're in second grade, you know, when there's five of you reading the purple books, and there's 10 of you, reading from the brown books, you know, something's off. And so this idea of, oh Suze just blessed to have it all together. I didn't have it all together. I was told by my high school counselor, I didn't have the academic aptitude to make it at UCLA. And he said that in front of my parents. So I've had to deal with that weak voice, that you're not good enough. You're not strong enough, you're not smart enough. You're learning agility isn't where it needs to be. And then I learned and science tells us this. What we actively do to answer that weak voice is the secret sauce. If we allow the thoughts to come in, and to pound us down, and we don't answer every thought, with an affirmation, a true fact evidence that you're capable of doing it or evidence that you're ready to leap, you will find yourself playing inside and losing your enthusiasm and your optimism. And I call it being a stubborn optimist. The stubborn part says good stubborn says I'm not going to give into that weak voice. Good. Stubborn says I do see all the work you did Monday through Friday, that inventory that allows you to cross over that bridge to say, I'm ready in this moment. And to me, everything emanates from those two voices in your head and the awareness of when you're in your weaker you're strong voice because the awareness allows you to answer the call of that weak voice because we don't have to worry about when the thoughts are coming in just warm and fuzzy. It's like man, hang on and yell up because all is good in your brain. But today cause of the instability because of all the uncertainty. Doubt seeps in and it's winning the conversation and you're constantly having over 60,000 thoughts a day. So this conversations going on who's winning the conversation who's getting the last Word, may your strong voice always get the last word. And I often tell people, would you ever date your inner voice? And this idea would I ever date my inner voice? Ooh, that helps build awareness around your strong and your weak voice.[PB15]

Paul Barnett 25:16

I want to pick up this thing, actually, if you're weak and strong voice, and as you just said, there, you know, managing and having this stubborn optimism because you also talk a lot about having a strong recovery routine. Yep, as a leader, and this being the key to sustainable success. And this, for me feels like a really strong area where people in leadership roles outside of sport can learn from those that have been in athletic field. Could you tell us a little bit about this recovery routine that you talk about and how it could be applied for someone who's not involved with a sporting team?

Sue Enquist 25:49

When it comes to performance? Remember, corporate performance, you're asked to perform everyday or athletic performance, those that don't have what we call a next play. Next event mindset. How do we push through hard or failure, I call it a fail recovery system. And what you have to understand is, if you can always remember that who you are, supersedes what you do. So who I am as a ballplayer is always going to be more important than whether I got the hit or not who I am as an employee is always going to be more important than whether I won the sales contest. And once you understand how to separate those, you can manage failure, because you can keep the failure small, and your integrity and your character big at the end of the day[PB16] . Character drives the process. If you don't always remember who I am drives, how I do my work, those two things are the most important out of the three. The third thing is the result. And we actually can't control the result, we can only control who we are and how we do our process. And we have to let the results fall where they may, you can't control. Whether you win the game, you can only control the process to set yourself up to get the result or win the game or win the contest or be the best company in the industry.

Paul Barnett 27:06

And talking about companies and in industry. After softball, you move across and you start the business one softball.com. And I've been to the site and proudly announces that the mission is to inspire the player, organize the parent and educate the coach. I was really intrigued though about the starting point for this website. Because it says in the background that you interviewed 120,000 families to arrive at this this deep seated wisdom on this this mission that you've articulated. There are so many questions about families that I would love to get into with you, but possibly just something high level. What surprised you the most about the results as you started to sift through them?

Sue Enquist 27:47

What surprised me the most let me go through each demographic. What surprised me the most was how ill prepared. We're providing leadership for the youth coach. Because remember, that's just a mom or dad that raised their hand and said I'll try to do this. How ill prepared the youth coaches. We're doing a horrible job on teaching them how to manage 10 to 15 people, and that is coming from them. They're saying to us, my Lord, please help me. I don't know how to manage people. I'm a dad, that is a baker. I run a bakery. Myself and my son and now I'm in charge of 15 girls. He's screaming for help on how to manage a group to the mom and dad sport parent. They're saying Holy smokes. We don't know who to trust. Because you sports is unregulated. There is no us. Like we have a USDA the US Department of Agriculture that oversees the quality of our food. We don't have a United States Sports Association that oversees the quality of how we're teaching our young people in the parents don't know who to trust and in America path to college. Because we provide scholarships in this country. path to college is a huge, huge moneymaker for all these youth coaches that are going to say Come play for my team. I'm going to get you a scholarship. The poor parent is completely disorganized, on how to set up criteria for who to trust. And last and probably the most impactful. I didn't realize how unhappy how fragile and sad the student athlete is. Because everybody has stopped listening to them. The game isn't as fun. We took away the innocence in the game by having them compete at such an early age. I wish we would create a federal mandate that children can't start competing until they're a teenager. I honestly wish we could do that so we would have more free play more on structured play, allowing them to grow without pressure. We have a six and under national championship in this country, talk about stupid Americans, What in God's name are we doing? And we need to recalibrate this and one softball Our vision is to close that information gap for the parent to assist the coach. And most importantly, is inspiring that young girl to stay in the game longer because we lose 67% of our girls leaves youth sport, by the time they're a teenager,[PB17]

Paul Barnett 30:33

you started coaching in 1980, you've got this wealth of experience driven by failure and success and everything in between. If I had a magic time machine, and I could take you back and introduce you to that, that young woman that was just starting at coaching in 1980. What advice would you give her?

Sue Enquist 30:53

I would just say, shut up, and listen more. Because when you're doing the yelling, you learn nothing.[PB18]

Paul Barnett 31:01

Perhaps then I can finish with one last question that maybe builds on this lesson on this theme a little bit. Now I'd like to before I ask a question, I'd like to just give context with a quote another one of your wonderful, wonderful quotes. And you say, the lifelong impact as a great leader is about how you challenge the belief system of your student athletes. That's what you're going to hope you do. When you're done, you're going to hope they come back and say, You taught me belief. Now, it's a wonderful goal to aspire to. But I wanted to ask you about legacy. And in particular, what is the legacy that you hope you're leaving as a coach?

Sue Enquist 31:38

I think for me, it's to be a role model, that it's okay to be flawed. But it's not okay to stay in your flaw, and to be a role model to other men and women that you can be a part of this leadership industry. And you don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be the end all know all. But what you do have to be you have to be humbled by the journey of curiosity, you have to be inspired by this career. That affords you the opportunity to change how people think about performance[PB19] . The idea that as a coach, I can be a person that influences somebody else for the rest of their life. I mean, think about that IT leaders job isn't just a title. It is a lifelong impact you would have on somebody and may we never forget that. How we speak to them, stains their brain, specially youth for life. I had a coach John Springmann, who told me I remember the day he told me this at San Clemente Triton baseball field. He said, Susie, you have an amazing attitude, and you have great effort. And that's going to take you a long way. Don't let anybody ever take those things away from you. effort and attitude became the foundation on my life. I brought the inspiration from my parents with effort and attitude. So this idea that you can change the way people think you can change your belief system, you can change them from being a shy, self doubting, backup right fielder that never gets play to graduating from college or graduating from high school or graduating from junior high to say, I'm ready bring on the world because I understand how to walk that bridge of self belief. I understand how to manage next play next mindset. I'm able to feel good about who I am. That drives that process. And I don't worry about the results because the results don't define me to me as powerful.

Paul Barnett 33:51

So I think if it attitude belief is a wonderful way to finish this conversation. It's been an absolute privilege to spend this time with you on this beautiful morning in California and I thank you so much for your time today.

Sue Enquist 34:03

Well, thank you and good luck and just know I'm always in your back pocket. Once again, thank you for your persistence in getting us together. Appreciate you and happy holidays.