Tony Oconnor edit
Mon, Aug 12, 2024 4:08PM • 42:44
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
rowing, people, coaches, sport, boat, olympics, bit, good, team, teaching, maths, boys, talked, life, kids, gold medal, win, great, thought, tony
SPEAKERS
Tony O'Connor, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Tony O'Connor, Good evening. Welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Tony O'Connor 00:05
Thank you very much.
Paul Barnett 00:07
Well, firstly, where are you in the world, and perhaps, how did you get there?
Tony O'Connor 00:11
I am in Christchurch in New Zealand, and we're having our first winter's day of the year. It's been lovely up until today, and today it's very, very much like where I come from, which is, which is the west of Ireland. So you can barely see the sky for the for the little clouds and the the wind and the rain. So that was, yeah, that's, that's my starting point in life. Was, was over there, by myself, down here.
Paul Barnett 00:37
Well, we might cover that off, I think, in as we go through the journey of your long career and the steps that have taken, taken you from the head of the Olympics and, of course, to New Zealand. But Tony, can I just start with talking about some of the great coaches that you've either worked under or experienced now, as I was preparing for today, I can see that there was the legendary you know, Thor Nielsen. Sure most people in rowing will know about him. You were also close to people like Paul Thompson and Noel Donaldson, and I'm sure you've met some great Kiwi coaches over there. I mean, the country is is renowned for their sporting teams. But I'm wondering, Tony, just an easy question to get, is going, what is it you think the great coaches do differently that sets them apart?
Tony O'Connor 01:22
Well, you mentioned Thor and Paul and Noel, and, you know, that's a really good question. What makes a great coach? Does it mean They're well known? They've lots of wins. Because I think the greatest coaches I've ever met are probably fellows by the name of Malcolm McIntyre and Henry Smith and Ian Comiskey. And two of those have never coached an international team before, and only a few people have heard of them, but they're the ones that influence me and still influence me. I'm still working with, in fact, all three of them, actually.
I think what the really good ones do, and you can, you can certainly add Thor and Noel, etc, and what that is to make you open your eyes, and they make you think, and they cause you to question, and I guess self reflect, reflect on the way that that we do things, on the people around you, their practices. And they make you sort of question whether things could be done in in a better way. And sometimes that answer is no, obviously, but I think they also help you believe that you can get somewhere in life. Okay, might not be winning an Olympic medal, but I think getting better than you were before. I think that's what the really good ones do. They give you. They empower you to, I know it sounds cliche coming from a teacher, but to actually try your best. And those really, really influential coaches, not just in our sport, but I think, in every sport, and probably teaching as well, that they're remembered long after they're gone. [PB1]
Thor's passed away just last year, but the people that worked with them over the years. They'll remember them. And it's not just for their I guess their technical expertise or their on water success, the real the real good ones leave a lot more legacy. So for example, Thor taught me, you know when, when we won the world championships back in Lucerne in 2001 I thanked him, and I still he reminded me what I said to him. I didn't remember saying this, but he said that you told me thanks for everything, and only a little bit of that had to do with rowing. And this was just before he died. Actually, about two weeks before he died, he was kind of reminiscent with me. Yeah. I mean everything he taught me, he taught me a lot about rowing, pretty much everything I know. But even that pales into insignificance in terms of volume and importance, when you compare it to the important things, he taught me how to share knowledge, how to do things for the good of the sport, how not to cheat, even though, if you see people cheating around you, and you get, you know, you get these great coaches, as I said, not just at international level. It doesn't depend on number of medals they win, but at club level as well. And the three coaches I mentioned at the start, I'll put them right up there with, with, with the International coaches as well. So, yeah, it's a really good question. I guess it depends on what how you define as great. If you look at Jurgen Grobler, he's won gold medals at every Olympic since 72 and people who've worked with him. Say exactly the same thing, that he was a great coach and, oh yeah, he taught me a bit about rowing at the same time. So
Paul Barnett 05:06
he's the most successful Olympics coach ever. He's on the top of my wish list, but unfortunately, I have not been able to twist his arm into an interview yet, but I will keep chipping away. Good
Tony O'Connor 05:18
luck. Yeah, he's he's notoriously, uh, tight lipped with his his opinions, but when he gives his opinions, he gives his opinions. I believe, believe you, me, I'll
Paul Barnett 05:28
keep trying. Um, Tony, what's interesting you talked about teaching then now you're a teacher. You're a math and a physics teacher, as well as being a gold medal winning coach. Yeah. Where does teaching and coaching differ?
Tony O'Connor 05:47
I'm going to, I'm going to give you a very simple answer. I'm going to say they don't. I think, you know, I'll compare a sort of, I'll pick my year 10 algebra class, right? Because they're of a bunch of hooligans. Actually, they're a lovely bunch of kids, but I can tell you, not all of them really want to be there, and that's probably the major difference.
So in terms of teaching, it's my role, I guess, to help them get the most out of the experience. And I'll often say to the kids, look, and actually, I had a mother come back to me recently at the parent teacher meeting, because I told the class, Hey, boys, it's only maths. It's not important, so don't worry about and that is one of my tactics I use with people. Look, I say to these, these kids, do your best, and we'll have some fun along the way. But the thing is, I'll say exactly the same to the rowers, whether it be a club team or an international team. I'll say, hey, look, it's only rowing. It's not the most important thing in the world. Even if you win an Olympic gold medal, I can guarantee you'll still walk down your local street and a lot of people won't even recognize you. So why don't we just have some fun along the way. So I tend to use the same philosophy and motivation in my class as I do with with the rowers, because essentially, not essentially, they're just people, aren't they? Okay, the rowers tend to be six foot, five and 100 kilos, but pretty much it's the same thing. I try to teach the boys in class, and the boys and girls I coach as well. That my philosophy is you teach the person to teach themselves. And I think that's to me, anyways, my opinion, but I find it a very powerful way of of helping, helping people learn. [PB2]
And it shouldn't be me just imparting the knowledge the whole time. So in a class of 20 boys, for example, they've been doing maths for 10 years, we'll say, so that's 200 years. Now, if you have a an elite age, and they've been rowing for, I don't know, 15 years on average, again, that's you're looking at what 120 years you have a hell of a lot of experience that you you can coax out of the collective to help the individual, which then helps the collective again. And it's exactly the same, whether it's classroom or whether it's rowing, they're they're exploring the sport, or they're exploring the subject, or whatever that may be, maths, physics, and they're exploring it through their own eyes, and I'm only there to maybe keep them on the on the on the path, the beaten path, and not let them stray off too far. But you do have to let them stray off a little bit. So honestly, you asked me what the differences are. They're the similarities differences. I deliberately, I deliberately tell myself there are no differences, and I use the same, exactly the same techniques, and the same psychology and and I find myself making the same mistakes in both areas, and they always surprise you. Kids always surprise you, and rowers always surprise you. They'll come up with a different way of saying something way better than that than you could have thought of. So you give them credit for that and that, that, again, that empowers them to almost be the coach or be the teacher themselves. And you know, come the end of the season, Olympic Games, or come the end of the year, and you've got your your final exams, if I've, if I've done my job properly, they're teaching themselves at that stage, and I'm basically redundant, so the similarities are just huge between the two. Yeah,
Paul Barnett 09:28
Tony, I've got quite a few interesting quotes from you that I'm going to talk play back to you in this this interview. The first one that caught my eye when I was preparing is, let me say, every sport is a mix of art and science. It's trying to find the right balance, but sometimes you need to go with your gut. I thought this was interesting given given your background in maths and physics, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this statement can also apply to any form of leadership, really. And I'm wondering if you could tell us about a time where you recently went. With your gut and what you learn from it,
Tony O'Connor 10:06
yeah, yeah. People are surprised at that, because I actually qualified as an engineer, mechanical engineer after I left school. And those people are very, very black and white. They tend to be, and there's a lot of rules and regulations, and there's ways of doing things. And obviously, with maths as well, it's a process, and we've been doing the same stuff for 2000 years, so it doesn't, you don't go with your gut in maths, but I think that's just what I do. I'm not a mathematician. I'm a teacher, which is quite a bit different, I think, and I reckon so you're, I mean, controversial, you're not. I've kind of opened my mouth a few times recently about some, I would say, on sportsman like practices in our sport, but also in other sports as well. I've been in touch with school sport New Zealand and sport New Zealand, and you have it in every country you got in Australia as well, poaching kids from other schools and kids who've left school come back just to compete in a sport at the expense of kids already in the school. And, you know, and I've lived in Australia, and I know, I know people are a little bit more vocal over there, and I've lived in the States, and there's certainly a lot more vocal over there, and Ireland, but the New Zealand people tend to be a little bit more reserved. And they'll, they'll mumble and grumble, but they don't like to be don't like to shout from the rooftops.
So there were a few practices going on here, and I just, I just thought to hell with it. I'll just say, I'll just say what I think. And it was on national TV and radio. And the great thing about it was that I and it just didn't matter if people agreed with me or not. That was just my opinion. But a lot of people came up to me afterwards and said, Hey, good thing. Good on you for saying what a lot of us are thinking. So I actually, yeah, I did go with the gut at that stage.
I do it a lot in rowing, in coaching as well. I think there's a philosophy out there amongst a lot of coaches that the closer you get to a big event, you try to keep things the same, keep it simplified. Which is, which? Which? I do employ as well and but I do find sometimes that it's a really it's a great opportunity, like an open, blank canvas or an open window to make some fundamental changes right up almost to the last day, whereas a lot of coaches are saying, I'm just going to keep it exactly the same way and hope for the best, etc, I'm willing to, you know, drop people and change rigging and switch everybody around on the boat if I don't think it's going to go right. And there's just something deep inside of me that says to me, you got to do it now, or you're going to be forever wondering. And lucky enough, most of the time it sort of, it plays out. And I do find that, you know, the closer you get to a big well, it doesn't even have to be a sporting event. It could be, as I said, an exam, or it could be, I don't know, your wedding, or something like that. Your mind tends to open up a lot, and you're very it's the mind becomes very suggestive, you know, or things, things that may not have worked before. It's just that heightened sense of awareness, I guess. So major changes can be made very, very close to a major event. People are physically stronger, physically better, psychologically in the right space, but I'll never do it. So in terms of sport, before the Olympics, a lot of crews will will be picked really early. I've never done that. I've always picked them really, really late, because people change seats, so positions in the boat are generally in rowing just tweaked a little bit as you get close to it, there might be one or two changes. But what I discussed with the boys before Tokyo, I said, Look, I think we have, we have eight seats, and we have, and I think I worked out the permutation something around 2000 ways we can. We can sit everybody in the boat and swap them over and change them around. And I said to them, if it's okay with you guys. Now, this is only about four weeks out from the Olympics. I spent, let's spend a couple of weeks. Every second day we'll change and we'll swap guys around, and we see what works, what is the the magic ingredient. And people thought it. Were mad. People thought I was called into the high performance director, who said, you know, what are you doing? Some of the selectors and the CEO, you know, have you lost your mind or something? I said, No, we're just trying to make it better. And trust us. And it wasn't just me, it was all the boys. We would all agree to do this, and everybody else were in their own cruise and their. Are set in their seats and every day, and it took, it took a long time to rig the boats, because you have to adjust the feet and the riggers and everything. It took me about, you know, five hours every time we did this. But it was worth it, because in the end, we did find and we said, we're going to do it until, I think it was the first of May. Let's pick a date. It was around the first of May, and once the first of May comes, we'll make that final decision. And we did. We got to the first domain. We said, we're going to go with that seating we had three days ago. That was the best and and it was, it was, I think, we won the Olympics by point nine of a second. [PB3]
So there was lots of reasons went into that, but one of them was the seating. We did actually find the best position for all these boys, but you gotta, yeah, you gotta trust yourself and yeah, live life on the edge a bit. Sometimes. I think we can all be too stayed and boring as coaches. And it's good just to frighten people as well.
Paul Barnett 15:53
Frightening people, uh, being outspoken on TV, winning gold medals. I mean, it's a it's a great it's a great story, and there's a wonderful documentary, of course, about about you and your philosophy as a coach. I'll put the links in the show notes. It's well worth the half an hour that it goes for. I highly recommend that to anyone. It's part of a great series, actually, on New Zealand coaches, I wasn't surprised to hear you being so outspoken, because you very openly describe your purpose as to help grow teenage kids to take on a better life. You've said it multiple times in articles over the years. Does that purpose change a little bit when you take on a team like an Olympic eight
Tony O'Connor 16:39
But it too, it's actually also in terms of athletic performance, it's a win as well, because you get these people back on their feet and emotionally, they are somewhat stronger and somewhat more part of a team, and they trust the team. [PB4]
So, no, it's not just the school kids. You know, the school kids are slightly different and that they come into the sport, and a lot of them don't have a purpose. Sport helps them to realize they can find something in life, I guess. And if they work hard, they can gain so much from that process, not so much the winning, but just from the process. And with the elite athletes, they have something they they want to win the Olympics. That's that's their goal. But then you find the ones who really want to win the Olympics and have nothing else in life. They're never going to win the Olympics. So in a way, you've got to tone that back a little bit, I think, with them. And like I said earlier, hey, it's just rowing. It's not that important. It's just a game. So have fun while you do it. [PB5]
So yeah, I think, I think walking along that journey in life sort of helping these people, whether you're leading them from the front or from behind, or you're holding hands with them. And I think it's a combination of all three at times, it's, yeah, it's a rewarding situation. But again, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't consciously deal with Olympic athletes different than I would any any human being. I look at the human first and yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I'm no psychologist. I have no qualifications in that or philosophy or anything, but I've been through a bit of shit in my own life, and I think I'm quite self reflective, and I know some things have helped me over the years, and I just try to pass that on. I
Paul Barnett 19:35
want to talk to you a little bit later on about people that really want to win gold medals and how that might affect their psychology. But do I want to stay with the gold medal race if we can, for a minute? Because in the documentary, it's an amazing moment where you discover that the boat's rudder is broken just just before the gold medal race. And I don't know whether that's the. Irish in you, and I'll, you know, I'll be open with you. I have an Irish passport too, whether it's just the ability to stay calm under pressure or don't worry about it, it'll be okay in the day. But how did you manage to just keep everything together and and move forward and get that team focused on the race ahead. It's It's strange. The thing is, I
Tony O'Connor 20:25
didn't tell the team, so I spotted this thing. I was washing the boat again again, because I'd done it about three times that morning. Because, like I said earlier, and it was true, the boys had everything under control. They were looking after their own warm up. They had sorted out their own food and stretching, etc, etc. And I was just standing there like a spare tool, re washing the boat, and they went off for this was an hour before the race, so half an hour before they got on the water, they went off to do their final little group chat. And I didn't involve myself in that. I didn't need to and I said, I see a boy, see a boy in what year, 25 minutes, half an hour, whatever it was. And yeah, watching the boat. And there's this thing was bust. And I have never seen a broken fin before like that. It literally just had split in two. And the first thing I thought was someone's done that jammed a screwdriver. But I said, No, this is the Olympics. People don't do stuff like that, because there's no cheating at Olympics. And then I probably realized that that maybe Sam, the Cox, or the boys had had maybe hit there was some fairly substantial wires out on the course, holding on to boys, and he could have backed into one of those. But anyway, I looked at this thing and I thought, I guess the first thing, because, like I said, I'm an engineer and a maths teacher. So I said, here's the problem, a bit like Neil Armstrong, really. You know, if you've watched, if you've read the book first man or watched the movie, he's very analytical and very sort of emotionless chap, but underneath it, he's not. But he trained himself to be like that. So the engineer and the maths teacher sort of said, right, there's a problem. How do we fix it? And the Italian boat manufacturer had a little stand, little tent about 50 meters away. So that was the obvious thing. I said, I'll go over and find him. And he normally gives me a glass of wine when I go to have a chat with him. He's very sociable fellow, but he came, he comes over and he looks, he said, I don't think we're going to have a glass of wine, just Yeah. So we got to work. And honestly, it was only afterwards. So the boys came down. I said, nothing. And literally, he had it fixed. And it was no more than 10 seconds before the boys came into the boat, the boat area there and and put the hands on the boat. And I said, nothing. And they they went out. And it was only then, when they went out, that the cold sweat started, started a pour, and said, Holy shit, that that would that could have been could you imagine? Because if they had gone out with that, it would have been curtains. It really would. You, you're not talking losing by two or three seconds. That would have been a minute easily, you know, it was that, it was that, that disastrous bush, and then I completely forgot about the damn thing. And only, I think only, when it came up in that document you were talking about, did somebody sort of mention it? Because I had said it to the Cox Sam months later, and he hadn't said it to anybody, and it came out in that documentary, and the boys were utterly shocked that that actually happened. So I guess I earned my wages that day.
Paul Barnett 23:38
Another quote, If I can, Tony, you say, if you have had success before, you can be very sure of what is required. And I've never, ever subscribed to that. I think everyone, anyone can change, and you should try and change deliberately to see what happens. And I'm wondering if you could share an example with us that sort of illustrates this belief.
Tony O'Connor 24:06
Yeah, I think it could be my Irish upbringing, but I do like to, I do like to push people a little bit and and make them question things and even if, even if, what they even if their practices are very, very robust and water tight, I still like them to try to analyze, and I'll do it myself. I'll do it every year. I'll analyze quite thoroughly what we did right and whether it can be better as well as well as what we did wrong, and obviously try to make that better. And I mean, I employ, I employ that idea, actually, in the code the day to day coaching. I make people do things badly deliberately, just to make them think a little bit more. So I'll say, I. You know, let's, let's, let's actually roll out of time today. So if you got eight guys in the boat, let's have eight different catches, and let's actually see, can we do that? And they'll go, Well, what the hell would you do that? You're teaching us bad habits. I said, Yeah, exactly. I'm teaching you bad habits to make you think what good habits are. So we'll do that exercise. And that exercise is actually really, really difficult to do things badly when you've done things 99% right for most of your life. So it gets you, it gets you out of your comfort zone. [PB6]
So, you know, I'll do the same in class. I've got a I've got a wall of quotes, and it says, embrace failure and try to be a loser and all sort of things like that. And deliberately try to because a lot of people are scared of failure, and they're scared of doing things wrong, and they won't try things because they know that, or they have a they have a fear, well, what if I try my best and I fail? And again, that depends on what your your definition of failure with, and I was very much like that in my early days as a rower. There were times when I knew that I really had to go to my limit to, for example, win a race. But there was no guarantee that even if I did that, we would I would win, and if I didn't win, I lost, and if I lost, it was a failure. So all these little things I only realized, realized this years later. So I wouldn't try that hard, then I try. It looks like I was trying hard, but I was always holding a little bit back. And I recognized that in myself about halfway through my own career, and said, Jesus, what a fucking idiot you are, but it's a real human thing, isn't it, not to not to want to fail. So now I go the opposite way in everything I do. I say, Hey, do it wrong, do it wrong, and do it wrong over and over again, and laugh at yourself and laugh at yourself in situations where it actually doesn't matter. You can do it in training. So you get used to losing. You get used to failure. And so when the big day comes, you're not actually afraid of it that much. I think you know people are, I'll rig the boat in correctly, and I won't tell the athletes. And I'll say, hey, how does that feel? Like, Oh, that feels weird. And I'll say, Well, what? Tell me about weird? What? What is weird? And it gets them to start thinking again. So, yeah, it's, it's just, I guess it's a slightly strange way of doing things, encouraging people to fail all the time. But could you imagine if you can get, if we as human beings could, could get over our our hang up with doing things badly? How wonderful would that be? Because we'd never do anything bad. We you know, we do our best, and that's all we can do. And I think that's, that's where I'm trying to come from. I know it sounds good here, but I wish I could employ more of that in my own life as well. And I have to force myself. I wish somebody would force me to fail a bit more. So I know it can be a difficult, you know, construct to take on board. But I really do think, I think everybody, in terms of sports, everybody trains the same. Human beings are human beings. You've all got the same vo two, you've all got the same flexibility. So where did, where does the difference come in? And I really do believe it's up here, and it's the attitude to win, lose, success, failure. And that's just one of my little, one of my little ways of getting around that.
Paul Barnett 28:30
I love the idea of laughing at yourself. I think that's a I think that's a really powerful way of normalizing failure in your reaction to it. But talking about laughter, I know that you're a fan of the film, Cool Runnings with the late, great John Candy, a good, good sports film, and there's a line in that film that resonated with you. I've heard you repeat it a few times, and I'll actually insert the audio of that line here.
29:00
Hey, Coach, I have to ask you a question, sure, but you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
29:06
I mean, I want you to, but if you can't, I understand. You want
29:12
to know why I cheated, right? Yes, I do. That's a fair question. It's quite simple, really, I had to win. You see Therese I'd made winning my whole life. And when you make winning your whole life, you have to keep on winning, no matter what you understand that?
29:44
No, I don't understand. Coach, you had two gold medals. You had it all Therese, a gold medal is a wonderful thing. You. But if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
Paul Barnett 30:08
Can you tell us why that line resonates with you so much?
Tony O'Connor 30:14
Yeah, that hit me like a bolt out of the blue when I watched the movie. I quite enjoyed that one, because we had a we had an Irish bobsleigh team, believe it or not, as well, just who went to the Olympics. And it was full of rowers. And I remember watching these guys training, and then we just know snow in Ireland, so there was, there's a hill just behind the boat club, and they used to get into this cart. And after rowing training, they'd push themselves, and they'd run down the hill and hop into this thing. And they actually did. They got to, I think was alberville in 1888 I think that's where the Olympics were that year. A couple of them went to that and I thought these guys were lunatics. But so when Cool Runnings came out, and, yeah, that really struck a chord. But when, when he said, When John Candy said that to me, he was right, because I've seen so many people wind themselves up so the Olympic Games is looked upon as the pinnacle, or if it's if it's football, it's the World Cup, if it's golf, it's the masters.
And so many people tie up the success in that with their own self worth. And to me, the true caliber of a person doesn't depend on the amount or the type of their sporting accolades they accrue over the years. It resides in that person's moral fiber and their ethics and their decency and their ability to hold a door open for somebody, and their ability to say please and thank you. And I found over the years that those type of people are actually the ones who go on and win the medals. [PB7]
To a huge extent. You always get the odd wanker, but the All Blacks have a saying, good people make all make good All Blacks, and that is certainly one thing they really try to do, is instill a culture of of of decency and doing the right thing. I think if you think an Olympic medal will make you a success, and I think your definition of success is flawed, I really do. It's, it's it's often those who set their sights on something at the exclusion of everything else. They're the they're the ones who don't realize their dream. And as I said, it's only sport. It's just hell. You know When? When? When we started, when I started rowing at age of 14, or I started kicking a ball at the age of three, it wasn't to go to the World Cup and it wasn't to go to the Olympic Games, is because it was having fun, and people forget that. And that's that's the beauty of sport and the and in one way, it's not important at all, but in in so many ways, I think sports one of the most important things we can do as a species, because it teaches us so much in a environment that's safe, or at least it should be safe. Unfortunately, there are the small number of people who, you know the whole idea of calling teams franchises now that really sticks in my gut, bringing the business model into schools and the whole, you know, I'm looking at the Chinese swimmers thing on the paper at the moment with the cheating. And do you remember when you were a kid Paul, and, you know, there's a bunch of and you played hide and seek, and somebody got up against the tree and put their hands like that, and everybody else ran to the four corners of the world. There was always some kids would turn around and shout back at the person counting, don't peak. Um, and those kids knew instinctively that that doing the wrong thing is is not what the sport is about. Yeah, they might win, they might catch you out, and they might find you hiding place really quickly. But that's not what sports about, and that's instinctive in children, that it's only a game. And I think John Candy was dead, right? He was basically saying to to his driver of the of the of the sled, that, Hey, mate, it's only a game. And if you continue on with this attitude, you're just going to tie up and you're gonna, you're not gonna achieve your goal. So, um, yeah, not the best movie in the world. There are other sports movies I love, but, um, but I did think, yeah, that that was a lovely, lovely call. And I do use it, you're right. I use it with with kids all the time, yeah, Tony,
Paul Barnett 34:39
for many of us in the non sporting world, rowing is actually the ultimate metaphor for teams. You know, are we all rowing in the same direction? Are we all heading in the same direction? We're all in time. I've used it countless times myself, but I'm wondering if there are actually some simple steps we could take from rowing. When it comes to setting up new teams, no matter whether they're at work in the community or in local sporting organizations,
Tony O'Connor 35:10
that's a that's a really good question, I guess only on you. I mean, it's not just rolling lots of team sports instill those ideas and those practices into people, I guess, and how, how can you transfer it? I think the main thing, of course, obviously, is like what I mentioned about the school boys, that those people in that team want, should want to be there, that that's, that's your initial you have a goal together, a common goal, or a common dream, or a common love of something. Now, I don't know whether a bunch of accountants might have a love of bookkeeping. I don't know. So you need to find something within that. It may not be the actual outcome, or the or the, you know, the goal of, you know, sending the stock through the roof, or whatever it may be, or selling x number of cars or but there needs to be a love of something. And I think with teachers, it's, it's not the exam results, it's actually the process of helping kids. I think what's, what's actually really important.
And we talk about teams a lot, and we actually forget about the individual. The team is made up of individuals. And even, you know, I think even though it's a team, we still do it for our own personal satisfaction. So you talk about rowing being a team sport, and it is, you've got to do all the but you're actually doing it for yourself. And when it comes down to it, most people will say they don't do it for their country. You hear that a lot in movies. I've done it for, you know, wave the flag and all that. But most people don't do it for the country. And most people, even though they really, really respect their teammates, and in some cases, they're their best mates, etc, etc, they're not actually doing it for them either. They're on the journey, the same journey at the same time, and you learn a lot from and you support each other, but you're other, but you're actually doing it for yourself. So I think taking personal pride is not a that's not a bad thing. I think it's really important that you take personal pride from what you're doing. And if you didn't get a personal buzz from something, we generally don't do it as a species, we back away and we do something else. If it benefits the team, then it's a bonus. [PB8]
Decent people won't do something, you know, if, if it harms the team, that's, that's the other side of that. The team is important, and a lot of people will, will, will do their best not to harm the team. But, you know, so doing it for yourself, but having consideration for others, and everybody's got different motivations. And I think, I think a leader of a team, whether it's a CEO or a principal or a coach or teacher whatever, needs to realize that your motivation as that leader, if you want to call it like that, may be different than somebody else's, and it's just as valid. Theirs is just as valid if they're in that room, if they're in that boat, if they're in that team, generally, they want to be there. It may be simple as earning a good wage to take home, you know, to your to your wife and kids, and put a roof over your head and that that's that's a very, very worthwhile motivation. And if you can tap into that and say to these people, Hey, we all want this company to go well, but we want to do it for different reasons, and accept that we don't all have to wave the Microsoft flag and say, hey, you know we want it. We want to sell millions of computers. And I think that's that's the art of actually being a really good boss is understanding that. So, yeah, it's the team is made up of eight, nine, 1000 individuals, and every single one of those is different, and every single one of those needs to be valued, I reckon, yeah, probably the most important thing in teams is the individual.
Paul Barnett 38:53
So any maybe just one final question, if I can, to bring together some of these, the strands that you've talked about tonight. You know you've talked about personal pride, then early we talked about purpose, laughing at yourself. I really enjoyed that too. Motivation, teaching. But if I had to ask you to summarize the legacy that you hope these these activities, these beliefs, leave on others. How would you how would you describe that?
Tony O'Connor 39:26
Personally? What my Yeah, I don't think about that very often. I, actually I, in a way, I wouldn't like to be remembered at all. There was, yeah, maybe there was this bald Irish fella at one stage, but I don't remember much about him. I really don't like the idea of and I honestly don't I get quite so that documentary you talked about, even though I must add why. Question. And it's actually quite a good bit of TV. They've done it well, yeah, and I, I cringe when anybody brings it up. I'm not. I'm not a person who, who, despite going on TV talking about cheats, I don't, I don't like the limelight at all. We have, we have a practice here in New Zealand. I don't think you have it in Australia, and we certainly didn't have it in Ireland, or at the Olympics or World Champs, where at the National rowing championships, the coach gets on the podium and gets a medal as well. And I just think, I think that's awful. I really do. I don't think coaches of any place up on the podium are, I understand that, you know, it's part of a big thing, and the kids actually sometimes like it, you know, to say thank you, but you can always say thank you at the club dinner a week later. I think, I think the podium is a place for the kids who've raced the race the 2000 meters. They're the ones who've done it, not us. And I do, I do find there's a little bit, there's a little bit too much ego, I think sometimes in coaching. And if that, if, and my abhorrence to that, if that means that nobody remembers anything I ever did, I'm perfectly happy with that situation. The thing, the thing I'll be happy with is, if I've had an effect on some of these people through their lives and in the important things, if I've helped them, maybe realize that their worst nightmare is actually not that bad, that tomorrow is another day in life will go on, and that the important things in Life are not Olympic medals or national schools medals or World Cups, but they're they're your kids, and they're your health, and they're your relationships with your friends. And if you've learned how to deal with those things through the medium of sports, then I might say, yeah. I might have had something to do with that, but that's pretty much it. Yeah.
Paul Barnett 42:02
Tony, it's been ripping getting to know you. I did love that documentary. I mean, the intent behind that documentary is such a good one. It's to help community coaches in New Zealand. I think it's a great purpose that drives that organization. It's been wonderful getting to know you and reading about you, and I wish you all the best as you as you head forward towards another Olympic Games.
Tony O'Connor 42:25
No, thanks, mate. Well, I've got, I've got to say year 10 algebra coming up on Monday morning. That's the that's the first.
Paul Barnett 42:35
Thanks, daddy.
Tony O'Connor 42:36
Let's not, let's not, let's not. Aim for the stars just yet. Thanks, Paul, appreciate it. Bye.