Tricia Cullup Edit

Tue, Jan 31, 2023 7:06PM • 32:26

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

players, coach, people, trisha, worked, practice, game, day, team, head coach, recruiting, job, coaching, important, community, thought, kid, inspire, outwork, staff

SPEAKERS

Tricia Cullop, Paul Barnett

Paul Barnett 00:00

Trisha Keller Hello, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.

Tricia Cullop 00:04

Thanks for having me.

Paul Barnett 00:06

Very excited to talk a little bit of hoops with you today. And I'd like to start with something really simple. Where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far,

Tricia Cullop 00:15

but the University of Toledo in Toledo, Ohio, and I am in my 30th, year of college coaching. It's gone by in a snap

Paul Barnett 00:23

30 years, I can't believe that and I can see some bolts in the background. They must be from the championship teams you've had.

Tricia Cullop 00:31

Yeah, you know, they're great reminders and great motivation so that we can fill up that wall. It's not quite full. Yeah,

Paul Barnett 00:36

no, I'll put a picture of this when I send the podcast out so people can see there is quite a bit of space there to come. But there's also a nice gold ball there over your right shoulder. What's that one

Tricia Cullop 00:47

Coach of the Year Award from a conference that I used to coach in,

Paul Barnett 00:51

we're gonna get into the Coach of the Year award. We're gonna get into all the championship teams as we go along. But I thought we could start with a couple of the reasonably big names that you've been lucky enough to be associated with on your journey. And talking about Linden, Dallas, boy, Chuck, and of course, Muffet McGraw. And I'm wondering, Tricia, having seen these great coaches up close, what is it you think that the great ones do differently? That sets them apart? Why?

Tricia Cullop 01:19

I think that with Coach done, I think something that really rings true to me, and she was never done learning. I remember, just maybe five or six years ago, I went to a coaching you live clinic down in Orlando, Florida. And there she was, with her notepads still learning, here's some aids in the Hall of Fame. And she's still showing up a coach's clinics not to present but to learn. And that really hit me that gosh, I here I am trying to learn, but I need to keep doing this my whole career. And then, you know, I think about Moffitt. And I think about other coaches that I've had, and

I think they connect well with their players, the players, there was a, there was a men's coach here that kept sending me the quote, players don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. And I do believe that the coaches that you mentioned, that matters, they have to make sure that their players know that they're there for them, and they'll run through the wall for him. But you can't just coach at people you have to coach with people and for people. And when they know that I think it it resonates. And then finally, I think all of them outwork everyone else. It isn't about working more hours, but it's about working smart. And I think that all of them were exceptionally good in their in their areas because they outwork people.[PB1]

Paul Barnett 02:28

While talking about working people, Trisha, you weren't afraid to get your hands dirty when you were starting out. In fact, he took many entry level jobs. And these often involved doing the laundry or cleaning the floor. But it also meant that it helped you that allowed you to coach local high school teams as well, which I imagine would have been a good balance as you were learning. How did those early experiences at the entry level go on to shape the type of leader you are today.

Tricia Cullop 02:55

I wish every coach had to go through a little bit of that, because I think it makes you appreciate all those that are below you and what they're doing to help you succeed. I remember my senior year in college, I helped out of high school, local high school program that actually went on to be the state run around, I didn't know that at the time, I learned my passion for the game because they practiced at 6am. And so I had to leave my apartment at 5am to get to their practice, then go to class, and then go to my own practice, and then get some rest and study in the evening. And so just that passion of of having to get up early and that grind. I was impressed that those high school athletes were doing that that early in the morning. And then you know, I think going on to the Radford University I laughed because Luba Merle contact was the head coach, and he was a phenomenal coach with great success. But I remember walking into his office that first week and he said, you know, Trisha, someone needs to get the laundry done. And someone needs to sweep the floor before practice. And I looked at him and I said, Well, who is that someone and he said, that's you. So I laughed as we went on through the year. I knew every time he said someone that met me and I needed to roll up my sleeves and go get it done. When I signed up for coaching, I didn't know I was going to do laundry, you know, I didn't know I was gonna drive the van to Road Trips. And I certainly didn't know I was going to be sweeping the floor. But all those things are necessary to win. And as I've gone through my career, trying to surround myself by people who understand that the little details do matter has made my job a lot easier.

Paul Barnett 04:19

I think there's something tremendously empowering about learning the job from the shop floor up something that I did as well when I was was much younger, I started collecting trolleys in a supermarket. Trisha, when you were starting out, you worked by your own admission long and hard hours, you just gave us an example of it then and you were very conscious of trying to leave the right impression. But there's a downside to that isn't there that you can just push yourself too hard and you can burn out and in fact that happens to a lot of people. Now that you're the head coach and leading your program, how do you monitor your staff to make sure that they're not burning themselves out or at least heading in that direction?

Tricia Cullop 04:58

I think that's Great comment, we all want to outwork everyone, right. And we always I think you can look around and always realize, in coaching, there's always more to do, you can always be learning more, you can always be talking to your players more, you can always be writing more recruiting letters in college, there's always something paperwork, and paperwork piles up quicker than you can imagine. But I think it's so important that quality over quantity, I don't want people that told me they live in the office, I want people on my staff to get things done. And when they can get them done in a suitable amount of time, I do want them to go spend time with their families, and have some private time to recharge their batteries.

Early in my career, I didn't understand that, you know, I thought staying up late hours and be in the office was gonna help me win. And working hard does matter. But you're not very interesting on a recruiting call, if all I know is what's inside my four walls in my office, you've got to get out live a little bit, recharge your batteries to make sure that you have energy to give, you don't want to be a taker all the time. And so I think it was very important for me to learn how to do that. And then to make sure I'm paying attention to my staff, because I want them to love working here. I want them to look forward to walking through the door and not running out as soon as they possibly can. At the end of the day. I want them to love this opportunity and have a family atmosphere in here. But I think we have that even more if I appreciate their time. And I let them recharge.[PB2]

Paul Barnett 06:14

Patricia, how do you? What routines do you use now to recharge your own batteries so that in your words, you're a giver, not a taker.

Tricia Cullop 06:23

In college basketball, it's easy to work every day, the week, we had a closed door scrimmage Sunday, we practiced Saturday to get ready for that. So Monday, I kicked everybody out of here and said no one's coming in the office on Monday. I don't want you doing anything on Monday if you can, if you can help it besides taking a little bit of time to watch the film to get ready for practice today, so that we are better so that we can show film to our players individually. But I think that making sure in the season that we have one day that we just completely shut down. And then in the offseason, I tried to schedule things through the week. So in the preseason, we really try to own those weekends, to where our players can go away and go see their families because our seasons long. Unlike other sports, our season encompasses the two semesters. And so it's really difficult for our players even to have the reps that they need. And so we don't monopolize their time, we try to be very concise in what we do. And I can definitely see that there's an extra bounce in their step when I see him on Monday because of it.

Paul Barnett 07:15

And what about you, Trisha? What about your batteries?

Tricia Cullop 07:19

You know, I love I love to read, I love to watch movies, I just went for a long walk I love when the leaves turn in the fall here yesterday, I went for a long walk in one of our metro parks here. And I felt so much better when I walked out of there. You know, I didn't think about all the pressures of the job, I thought about how beautiful my surroundings were. And I think it's important to find those opportunities.

Paul Barnett 07:39

Tricia, when you will stuff talk about the environment around your team, they use this phrase created by culture. I've seen it pop up quite a few times. Can you tell us about that?

Tricia Cullop 07:51

I think first as a head coach, the most important thing I do is hire. And if I don't hire the right people, whatever culture I'm trying to establish, and maintain isn't going to happen. Because I've got to make sure that the people that I have on my staff when I'm out recruiting are maintaining it, that they're they're inspiring our players to do the things that we want to happen in our program. Also, when we recruit, we've got to make sure that they're not just a great player, but there's someone is a great human being. That's a great teammate, that is selfless, that is a hard worker that has a positive attitude. It doesn't mean that people aren't gonna make mistakes in our program. But the culture fosters something pretty positive. I heard the phrase one time you know, pick your problems or, or pick your solutions when you're picking people. And I think in recruiting and even in hiring, that's true. We have to make sure that we're we're choosing that culture and then we're reinforcing that culture by the people that we bring in. [PB3] [PB4]

I think we've done an outstanding job of that. Because last year is probably one of the most fun jobs I've ever had of a season because I really enjoyed be around this team every day. They had fun, but they worked when they had to because of that we won 2029 wins and went pretty deep into postseason. And you know, and what's thrilling is we have those same people back.

Paul Barnett 09:04

What did you do differently last year to cultivate a little bit more fun.

Tricia Cullop 09:07

Number one, I think we we've become even pickier in recruiting. So the people that we're bringing in, I think they've got to fit a mold. And if they don't fit a mold, we we don't necessarily recruit someone. But I think the other thing is trying to have some fun at different moments. You know, Halloween is coming up. We love to pull pranks on our players. I just ordered some stuff from Amazon yesterday that I'm excited to get in. We'd love to every once in a while keep them on their toes, whether it be having a manager dress up in a Halloween costume costume and scare them as they're on their way to practice or have them jump out of a box that's been sitting there for a while and scare the heck out of them. Our kids love to laugh, and I want them to enjoy this experience. And so we've got to keep them we've got to keep some things like when we can.

Paul Barnett 09:49

She talked about fun. And earlier you talked about selflessness. But I understand that your philosophy is actually grounded in the mantra of investing Improve, inspire. Could you tell me how this mantra would be visible? If I was to come into the gym and view the team in action? Well,

Tricia Cullop 10:11

I think even this morning, when I came in the office, I saw part of it because part of the InVEST part is that our our coaches are trying to get better every day. But also our players are trying to individually get better every day, one of my players was sitting watching film at eight o'clock in the morning with one of my assistants. So she's investing in herself to get better. Later on. Today, we've got players that are coming to the gym individually, to shoot extra to get better. My assistants, you know, are constantly trying to glean things, whether it be reading things, watching things, listening to other coaches in their coaching groups that they join on Zoom to get better and invest in themselves. And then as we as we do that, we're also investing in the collective group, the Inspire part comes from, you know, once you've gotten something, once you've learned something, inspiring those behind you to do the same. And so turn around and helping the rest of the group, the improved part is simply we don't want to come in and be the same every day, we're looking at statistics, and we're saying, Are you a better shooter this year than you were last year, last year, maybe you weren't as good defensively. So let's look at the film and see if there's a marked improvement. I want all of our players to think that every day they've gotten a little bit better. And we're not asking for 10%, even 1% is going to help us because at the end of the week, that's 7%. And who wouldn't take that on the end of the test, right? So we all want to get a little bit better every day. And that improvement art matters. So invest, improve, inspire that's important to us. And it becomes kind of a cyclical thing. As we as we master things, we help everyone else in those same respects.[PB5]

Paul Barnett 11:43

You Tricia, you talked about your coaches getting on Zoom calls to try and inspire themselves with new ideas is there an example of something recently that you came across could be a book or TV show anything that inspired you to try something with the team, there's,

Tricia Cullop 11:57

there's a lot of things, quite honestly, you'll laugh, I love this age, because you can, you can jump on Twitter and find a new out of balance play, you can, you know, jump on any kind of social media and find a new play, my hometown is near Indiana University and the head coach at their institution is my teammate from college. So on my way home, I made a point of stopping at their practice to watch it. And I sold two or three drills and and talked with their staff afterwards to understand their philosophy and some of the things they were doing. And that helped me grow. And I brought those things back to our program. And very next week, we're doing some of those things. And so I think it's important that as coaches, you know, we always want our players to improve. But I think we need to lead the way and show them that we are trying to grow and improve as well.

Paul Barnett 12:39

Yeah, and part of that improvement is the Mentor Program, you've set up for the team, intrigued to understand a little bit more about how it works and what you're trying to get out of it. One time ago,

Tricia Cullop 12:48

I had an athletic director after a very, very good year in my evaluation meeting brought me in and of course, complimented our staff and myself on the season that we had had. But at the end of the conversation, he said to me, so what are you doing for your players that are graduating? How have you prepared them for this? How are you helping them secure jobs, and that hit me, because I hadn't grown up around people that were doing that, you know, other than writing letter recommendations, we all do that. But I thought man, I really failed in this area. And so I took a look around to see what other coaches are doing some things that are above and beyond you. And I mentioned earlier, Jackie Carson Smith, she has a mentoring program. And so I called her that a long conversation about how to pair up student athletes with somebody in their in their field of study. And here at the University of Toledo, I'm blessed to have some incredible connections with people, I may not know them, but I may know someone who knows them. And so we've been able to pair players with financial advisors, people that are in the criminal justice field that have been detectives for 26 years, we have anybody and everybody in different fields that are attached to our players now. And so what they do is they job shadow, they have possibilities for internships, at the very basic level, they have lunch with them, or go meet with them once a month. And what's awesome about this is sometimes our players discover man, this is not the field I want to be in. And that's a success too. Because that gives us an opportunity to then steer them toward the major they truly want. And then other times they may say wow, this is exactly what I want. And now not only have I learned a lot about the field, but now I have an incredible reference that can speak on my behalf to help me land the job of my dreams. So we feel like we've done a much better job preparing our players for the next step. And that's something we're going to do until I retire.

Paul Barnett 14:30

And Tricia, you also use mentors. I've heard you refer to them as your personal board of directors, which I think is a fantastic idea. Could you explain a little bit more about how it works and how you use them?

Tricia Cullop 14:42

We need to surround ourselves by people that are not afraid to tell us we're crazy that are not afraid to say hey, that's not the way you should be doing this. In fact, you know, they save you a lot of headaches. I have through the through my career found those people in different elements of my job it might be a compliance person at a different institution or conference office that I just think is a rock star. So when I have a strange question that I may or may not want to run by my own compliance staff, I may 1, call them and say, Hey, have you heard about this? Am I right in thinking, this could be a good idea. And sometimes they can save me a difficult conversation, it could be an administrator, that I just think the world that I know that if I call them will say, Trisha, don't go into your Aedes office feeling this way, you are totally wrong. Or they may say to me, you should have gone in weeks ago and brought up this particular thing that's bothering you, I think it's important to not only have them in your field, but even in the business world, because what we're doing applies very much to the business life, we're making decisions. We're hiring people, we're managing staffs. And so getting ideas from people that are very, very good at what they do, has saved me steps. I always thought in the beginning, if I just worked really hard, I can be successful. And that's only one element of this step. I think meeting people who have already paved that path that will reach back and help you can save you so much time and energy, and also reaffirm some things about yourself that you're either doing right? Or encourage you to change them so that you can redirect your steps and, and get to your destination a little quicker.[PB6] [PB7]

Paul Barnett 16:14

That's a terrific answer. And I'm wondering, there'd be people listening to this thinking I bought a direct sounds too complicated. If someone wanted to start if someone wanted to just approach someone and say, Hey, can you be my mentor? My board of directors? How would you? What advice would you give them on couching that conversational? Taking that first step?

Tricia Cullop 16:33

Number one, it's a huge compliment to the person you're asking. And many people that they have the time are gonna say yes. And so not being afraid to, I think there's a book out called Never Eat Alone. And it talks about inviting people to lunch, and, and asking them during lunchtime, because everybody's got to eat. And during lunchtime, having some questions prepared to ask those people, one of them could be would you be willing to be a mentor, but it might even just be? Can I get some information from you to make myself better to understand why you're so successful what you do just those simple little things, you may take one thing from that person, but even that one thing could be life changing. And so I think not being afraid to ask people and and then if you get a no, don't be disheartened, because there's plenty of people in our field that are very, very good at what they do for various reasons. There's a lot of different ways to carve it up. And I think that if you ask for that help, you'd be surprised what you get in return. The WBC has a mentoring program. And I've been a part of it as a mentor. And I wish that when I was a younger coach, I would have been a mentee in that because I think that even those conversations as a mentor helped me, sometimes the mentees were doing things that I was like, Wow, that's incredible. I've never thought about that. And so that conversation sparks a lot of different items that can help everyone, don't be afraid, people will be so excited that you thought enough of them to ask that most of them will say yes,[PB8] [PB9]

Paul Barnett 17:53

sure. Sure. In 2022, this year, you were awarded the Carol Ekman integrity and coaching Award, which must have been a tremendous honor. But I wanted to flip it around, actually, and ask you about a time that your integrity was questioned as a coach, because we know that happens to all leaders and how you handled it.

Tricia Cullop 18:15

It's difficult. I think all of us when we get in a situation where someone has has questioned our integrity to a core, it's first you got to do some soul searching, you know, is that something I did, because none of us are perfect. Me included. It was an honor to receive this award. But you know,

I think all of us have to realize we all make mistakes, we're human, I think the most important thing is what are we doing about it. And early in my career, I had a coach that thought, because we signed a recruit that we had done something that was illegal to obtain this recruit, not knowing that the recruits simply because we had been in battle with this particular program, and this player just really wanted to go away from home. But this, this coach was convinced that they left their home because of something else. And so they just couldn't wrap their arms around the fact that kids want to leave their family and come away from home to go to school. So when I caught wind of it, you know, I first I was credibly hurt, right? It's you work hard and try to do things the right way. But I just picked up the phone and I called the coach and I just said, Hey, let's talk about why this player chose their school and it could have been near anyone else at the bottom line, the surface level they wander away from home. And did you ever ask that question? And you know, please know that, you know, this is who we are. This is what we stand for. We've done nothing wrong and and I'm glad we had that conversation because at the end of the day, we get along now it's it's something that there's always a lot of assumptions because in this job we spend hours upon hours doing what we do. Recruiting is very difficult. I joke that I compare recruiting to dating, you're trying to persuade someone you're trying to you spend a lot of time with them and you're trying to find the right fit not for romantic reasons but for you know, right fit for your school and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't sometimes it kid they're right for you and you're not right for them. And that's recruiting in a nutshell. And so feelings can get hurt because you've spent years doing something to only get no for an answer. And so that's hard to stomach. It's hard. I got one yesterday, it was very hard to stomach. But for the opposite reason, the kid wanted to stay close to home. And I had to realize that but I think, at the end of the day, the more mature me has also said, You know what, I completely understand that I was very close to my family, too, and wish them the very best because they're a great kid. And it really is about what's best for them. My job is to try to try to let them know they're a perfect fit for us and why. And their job is to find the right fit for

Paul Barnett 20:34

them. I imagine your mentors must also play a role, when perhaps not your integrity is questioned. But when you have ethical and moral challenges that pop up all the time,

Tricia Cullop 20:45

I've gone to them when I've had difficult situations. There's a CEO of an advertising company here in Toledo, that I think the absolute world and his former basketball player hits University of Toledo. And there have been times where I've faced challenges that I've called him and just said, Hey, what would you do in this situation? What advice do you have to his credit, he always picks up the phone or calls me right back. And I appreciate that more than he knows. But I think it is good to make sure when you're making a very difficult decision. Before you jump, Melanie Volcom, who I worked for, told me to sleep on it. I think that's very good advice, not to make emotional decisions. But number two to be very well thought out for you jump because once you jump, there's no going back, especially in this digital age of social media. Once you say something, it's there, and there is no repair,

Paul Barnett 21:28

talking about the sort of control or taking a minute to pause one of your other sayings is it's never as good as it seems. And it's never as bad as it seems, which is great advice for any age in any sport in any situation. But what have you learned about emotional control when it comes to leadership?

Tricia Cullop 21:47

When I was head coach at the University of Evansville, we lost a very difficult game at Colorado State. And I had taught to play one way and assistant on my team had gone to the other other end and taught it the opposite way. And I was very upset after the game because we didn't run this play, right. And so I spent way too much time after the game talking about why this play didn't run right, not realizing that there was a little bit of discrepancy until the players approached me the head coach at Colorado State was my former assistant coach, his name's Tom Cullen.

And Tom came to me after the game and he said, Trisha, why? Why do you go to locker room after games? And I said, Because I always have, that's what coaches do. And he goes, I don't. And he said, Let me tell you something, it's very free to not go to the locker room. He goes, and I want you to try it. And just tell me what you think. He said, I talked to my team and my staff at half court right after the game for a few minutes. And then we're done. He goes, I don't see him till the next day. And he goes, the best part about it is and I agree with him on this, you watch film is quicker, you get to evaluate, it makes sense of what you just said, it keeps college coaches and even any coach from complimenting someone than watching film that night and having to retract some words the next day and say, you know, I tells you to play great, but really it didn't, or getting on a kid not realizing that a chain reaction caused what what happened in the game, and you're really upset with them. But you don't realize that maybe it wasn't that player that players fault. It was Betsy instead of Sue. And so now you've got an honor. And that kid is going to hold on to that moment, for a long time. And you've done some damage there. When had you slept on it watch the film, you would have got it completely right. And so for those reasons, with my players, I like to manage my emotions after a game. [PB10] [PB11]

I like to get the film right away, my staff knows I love to make sense of it. And then, you know, our media is happy, because they get to have those interviews right away. We're not holding them from their families. My players love it because they get to go see their family. In the stands right away. Our fans, which were top 30 in the country in attendance are fans love it because they get to meet our players. And then when they see me at film The next morning, that phrase you just mentioned, it's never as good as it seems. It's never as bad as it seems we could have won and not played well. We could have lost and played really well. We lost to Notre Dame buy three at Notre Dame a few years back, we played really well. And so me being upset about the loss was ridiculous. Because had we played that same level, the next game and for the rest of the season, we would have been amazing. And the same goes true if I'm satisfied with a win. And we and we didn't box out the whole game or we had 20 turnovers and we still want, we're not going to win any more games. So our players understand that it's really more important about staying steady about getting better and improving and focusing on the little details instead of the outcome.

Paul Barnett 24:24

Well, it's a great example there of you thinking about the community that surrounds the team, the players, the fans as well. And I know that community is very important to you in your program, but I wanted to dig into it a little bit actually and ask you when it comes to your thinking on community. What's the difference between building community perhaps fostering community? Or me

Tricia Cullop 24:45

building is those relationships building is establishing relationships in your community. I believe that is doing community service work that is going out and really connecting with people kind of meeting them where they are. We've been involved with a group called for connecting kids to meals in our community that feeds 7000, starving kids a day, we help out with a Race for the Cure, which is cancer organization that, you know, we work a water station, you know, we could easily be in the race, but we feel like being a servant of the race is better. Because so many times those same people are cheering for us in a game. But now we get to cheer for them and serve them water as they run in the race, learning how to be a servant. And always the leader is a really good thing for our team to keep things in perspective, to make sure that even on our worst days, that sometimes we realize our worst day is someone else's best day. And so that community of giving back, it's, it's great because we wouldn't have the facilities we have the uniforms, we have the ability to have the incredible environments that we have if it wasn't for our community. And so we need to understand that appreciate that, be grateful for that. But also learn those lessons of why we're doing it. And those life lessons have, you know, it could always be worse. And so let's be let's be grateful for that. [PB12]

Now, the fostering part I consider fostering going out and speaking to community groups about our team, I'm fostering the excitement I am I'm trying to remind people that this is a great program. But I think the building part is let's go out and really meet people where they are and let's get to know them and and when people know your your name, and they know your face and what you stand for. That's so much more meaningful than a billboard, I think a billboard is your fostering. You're hoping that they watch it and they want to come but people don't come because of a billboard they come because of you, the person and those players and what you stand for. Tricia,

Paul Barnett 26:31

you worked with Lyndon, when you were younger, the legendary coach, and I've heard you say that Lynn would often say to you, Chris, you if you want to be good at something, or you're doing it in practice. Now you talk a lot about authenticity and community and these wonderful things. And I'm, I'm wondering, how do you bring these types of things into practice when it's about X's and O's, and basketball? How do you bring that extra element in onto the court with the team? One of my former players

Tricia Cullop 27:00

was just in town the other day and spoke at our tip off dinner. And she said to our team, you know, they you? But no, it ain't about you. And I think that kind of speaks on what what you just said, we do want our players to be who they are. You know, we've had an Orthodox Jewish player in our program who couldn't practice on the Sabbath. So we scheduled around her that is being authentic, letting her be her authentic self. She had to on the weekends, she could use electricity, she couldn't be in a car, she had eat kosher foods. We worked around that we traveled and got her where she needed to be by Friday at sundown and we packed kosher foods that were frozen and found places to heat them up. If she had to go to the game. The next day, her rabbi told us that he would allow her to play in games because they were fun. But practices were work. And so she could play on weekend games, but couldn't practice on the weekend. So during the Sabbath timeframe, so we worked around that. But I also shared with our players, even though we're working around nominal quite a bit, this nursing major on our team, we're actually working around her schedule a lot more being authentic is letting our players aspire to be what they want to be. And we scheduled practice around that not many college coaches do that many of them have a strict time. This is when we practice. And your major either fits in this or it doesn't. So we try to make sure that our players have their authentic self.

But then at the end of the day, we all kind of when we're on the court have to sacrifice that for the better good. And that's our team coach done. One thing you know she was shared with me is if I said to her, Hey, we're not shooting well, tell me what I'm doing wrong. And she'd say, well, Trisha, look at your practice, plan, what's how's your practice structured? What percentage of your practice are shooting drills? And I looked at it and I thought, Man, she's so right. I was so worried about defending the other team that no wonder we shot at portal. So now I look at my practice plan. And I make sure that the preparation meets what they want the expectation to me. And if we're not doing that, then I failed them. The other thing that I do is when we finish a game and I write my notes up, when I watch film, I go back and look at my practice plan that week. And before I start blaming everyone else, which I don't do, I look at that I first say what could I have done better? So that the outcome would be different if we didn't shoot free throws? Well, did I? Did we shoot enough of them during practice when we retired? If we didn't take care of it? Well, did we do drills where we gave three balls to each team during a minute of timeframe and said that's all you get? If you turn it over, you lose, I don't care what the score is, do we do things to make them appreciate how important each possession was? And so that's what I learned from her with that is making sure that our practice plan meets our expectations. It's been[PB13]

Paul Barnett 29:24

wonderful listening to you about self accountability and selflessness and all these wonderful values that are so important for everybody in today's society, particularly with so much social media, clamoring for our attention. But I wanted to finish my last question with a with a quote from you before I ask the question, and you say, I love bench pictures of our team going crazy. I love photos from some of those events, more than I liked the medallions. I love looking back at the emotion and the teamwork and all of that extra part of the game that you maybe don't get to see when you're coaching. It's a great quote now I think it goes very much to the heart of your philosophy. So I wanted to finish by asking you in the distant, distant future, when you do hang up that whistle if it ever happens, because great coaches tend to never retire, what would you like your legacy to be with all of these wonderful players that have come through your program over the last 30 years,

Tricia Cullop 30:18

think about my legacy, I first think about what inspired me and and that was, I had a terrific high school coach named Rick Marshall, who was there with me at my ultimate highs, after a great game would call and if he was watching me in college, or coaching a game and say, Wow, or text me and say, amazing job, and was with me, a Hall of Fame, inductions, and then also in my ultimate lows was at the funeral, both of my parents, you know, hugging me and being there, you know, I think about a coach that was more than just basketball, that they were there for you for the highs and lows of life, and that that relationship didn't end when they walked off the court, and when they graduated, and what we tell our players is that, you know, we're going to help them, whether it be recommendations for jobs, if they need something, they call us, I want to pay forward what he did for me, and I want our players then to turn around and do the same for the people that they interact with after they graduate. I think the other thing is, they've learned how to give back while they've been here at the University of Toledo, whatever community that they settle in, hopefully, it's still you know, if it's not, and they go back to their hometown, or their where their job leads them, I hope that they remember that they need to give back to that community, because they've done that their whole career here and that they should be thankful and grateful and, and thoughtful in their intentions with what they're doing. But I think for me, the other thing would be having confidence, you know, this game, I feel like teaches you to be not only a great teammate, so be a great teammate, after basketball, in life and in the workforce and with your family. But also understand that all those things gave you confidence. So don't ever back down from a challenge and know that, hopefully will instill in us no matter the barrier or the obstacle that you can achieve it. And you've just got to find the right path to do. That's what I hope we leave with our players.[PB14]

Paul Barnett 32:10

I think confidence, giving back and being thankful is a pretty good place to finish. So Trisha, thank you so much for your time today. It's been great connecting with you and I wish you all the best for the season ahead.

Tricia Cullop 32:22

It's been an honor. Thank you so much.