emotional control edit
Tue, Apr 09, 2024 9:16AM • 39:24
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coaches, state, work, people, biology, talking, breathing pattern, team, emotions, control, good, sympathetic, physiology, performance, understand, skills, call, situation, darren, leading
SPEAKERS
Dr Darren, Paul Barnett, Hugh McCutcheon, Dr Brendan, Dr Michael, Paul Thompson
Paul Barnett 00:00
Well, good morning, performance doctors. I've got three doctors with me today. I've never interviewed three people at once, let alone three learned people. But we should start by saying Good morning, Dr. Darren. Good morning, Dr. Michael. And good morning, Dr. Brendan.
Dr Darren 00:17
Morning. How are you?
Paul Barnett 00:18
Right? It's great to chat with you guys are so keen to listen and hear more about the performance doctors business that you've set up to sort of to help teams succeed and thrive. But maybe if I could just start by asking you to tell me where you are in the world and what you've been doing so far today. I guess, Dr. Dara, and if we could start with you.
Dr Darren 00:41
Sure. Well, Hi, Paul. It's good to get to be with you. And Michael and Brendan as well, of course. So I'm in Seattle, in Washington in the United States, where, as we're recording this, it's early afternoon. And I've just had kind of a typical day, nothing, nothing out of the ordinary, just typical patient care related things. So nothing, nothing different. Just typical day so far.
Paul Barnett 01:10
Michael, where are you in the world.
Dr Michael 01:12
I am in lovely San Diego, California, where it is a little after one o'clock in the afternoon, a beautiful day. It's 70 some odd degrees out now. And I literally just finished my own podcast. It's called 360 degree health. And we had a wonderful guest on today, talking about wellness and wellbeing and how to create it through mind body spirit. And I just clicked off and clicked on and here we are.
Paul Barnett 01:43
You've got your podcast voice happening. Very good there, Dr. Michaels. So we look forward to hearing from you later on. And Brendan, where are you in the world? And what have you been up to?
Dr Brendan 01:54
I am in Chicago, Illinois, United States, and most of my name is seeking meetings earlier. And then I spoke to a couple hours of yoga. So I'm a certified yoga instructor and then busy working with students, helping them bring their mind thereby in balance.
Paul Barnett 02:12
Okay, great. So we've got some Zen happening a daddy call as well. Well, I'm really excited to chat with you guys. I'm intrigued about what you set up. And I'm really looking forward to hearing how it finds itself into the into into the coaching world. But potentially, Michael, if we could start with you, I you know, I love this idea of many teams on occasion beating themselves, you know, when their performance and their, their emotional state is such that they're just becoming their own worst competitor. When you're having a day like this, what can you do to bring it back on track?
Dr Michael 02:52
Well, it's very important to understand that there is a space between the stimulus Bump, bump bump, and the response. Oftentimes we say bump bump, but maybe there's not. So it's important to help teams understand individuals really take a break. Sometimes everyone just needs a five minute break, to clear their head, head, step away, get a snack, have some water, reset, what are you resetting, you're resetting your thinking? In order to reset your physiology so that you can then perform differently? Let's address the elephant in the room. Is there any underlying inter personal tension or another underlying issue that you need to discuss to clear your mind so that you can move forward? Let's What about your goals and your priorities? Let's remind ourselves that everyone has an aim to accomplish. And when we think we must, we have to I demand I insist that a come out a certain way. And it doesn't. What's natural to think is horrible. I can't stand it and I'm no good. You're not going to come back and play well. So we have to shift gears to regain our focus and change up the way we are thinking about whatever it is that's going on outside of ourselves. It's
Paul Barnett 04:21
a think of any parent who's who's had children, we all know that when they get hungry, they can get a little ratty. So I guess that's good advice is different way to get something to eat. Darrin, I'd like to follow up with you if I can, because part of the premise that you guys work from is that coaches can leverage their biology in order to in order to enhance their performance. But can I ask you to take that down? And step four is what are the key parts of your biology that you can control?
Dr Darren 04:49
Well, thanks, Paul. That's an important question. And I think before unpacking that,
I think it's important to also acknowledge the coaches like all of us as humans, we share the same Biology, we share the same kind of structure and function of our biological systems. And that's what we're talking about when when we refer to leveraging our biology is trying to look after the things that we can control the things that we can, as you said, to allow all of those systems to kind of come online together to work in alignment towards whatever our goals and objectives are both in that moment, as well as in the longer term. So the big subclassification, below the biology would be the two big parts of the physiology meaning more of the body, and the psychology meaning more our thinking in our mind. And it's a two way highway traffic, they're one influences the other, and it can go in either direction. And there's a lot of instances in which the body is driving the mind and other instances in which the mind is driving the body and so forth, to really be able to optimally leverage the greater whole the biology, we have to understand both categories and develop skills and strategies in both of those categories. In order to be able to kind of make our biology work for us, in a sense, you[PB1]
Paul Barnett 06:12
give me an example Darren, of how you bring that thinking into your own life.
Dr Darren 06:18
Well, I think it's very much a not just talking the talk, but walking the walk as best as possible, you know, understanding versus humans, we don't always get it right, we'll have plenty of instances where even if we understand these things, we don't implement them as well as we could or we forget about them or whatever the case may be.
But I think it's about developing an intentional and deliberate practice or routine to develop those skills and strategies, some of which are more mind based, others are more body based. And to do that on a regular basis, just as part of our daily lives, in order to one leverage our biology so we can be at our best for whatever we're doing at that time. But also, so we can develop these skills, so that when the chips are down, and the stakes are really high, those high certain high consequence environments, we've developed these skills in advance so that we can use them the analogy that is useful to think of is you don't just show up on marathon day and expect to run a personal best, you've got to train in advance in order to be able to perform your best. And that's not just the physical craft related skills, it's also these mind based and body based skills to help leverage and manage our biology[PB2] . It's
Paul Barnett 07:33
interesting, you know, a lot of the coaches talk about the fact that you can practice or train yourself back into confidence. So I guess that's the physiology driving the psychology and I also interviewed a guy called Paul Thompson who's who's coached been to a to Olympics with Rowling's when multiple gold medals and he had this it's great way of phrasing your physiology driving your psychology and I'll, I'll insert that that audio Greg here, attain
Paul Thompson 08:01
doctor at the time engaged with one of her old or her old medical colleagues. And he'd worked into some business and he was a surgeon and just about how your physiology drives your psychology. So if you're, if you're, you know what stage fright? Well, that's part of the flight and fright response. Yeah. So if you can control your physiology, and your heart rate variability, then then you can can control your psychology. Yeah. So when it's when you're in front of the world's cameras at the start line, you can hear the crowd roaring down there, and you're about to have the most important moment of your race. And there's just this right is two minutes silence before the before the the flag drops. And you know, what's going through your, through your mind there, what's the most important thing because that that can be at a point that you miss? So some people need to be high up on the arousal curve, some people need to be low. So so how do you how do you balance that out? So we did a real piece on on managing your emotions, apparently is $34,000 on 17th of human emotions 17,000 Positive 70,000 negative. So I'm led to believe some Tibetan monks countered demand to help. But that was a that was a really good way to be able to, you know, teach the rowers about themselves, and about what they needed for peak performance and that connection between the physical and and the mental to get the most to get the most out of themselves. So there's been some really, really interesting pieces on that and had a crew the following year, the base that whole race plan on their emotional state, so didn't have any of the technical bit and kind of ended up coming forth in the Well, but that was really effective and work for them. Well,
10:04
if I can just add something that very interesting. Nine weeks ago, I slipped and fell and broke my kneecap and my elbow. And I've been going through a healing process. One of my orthopedic physicians is a Olympic team, doctor, sports medicine doctor, they are in control, they understand this. And he said to me, you know, I want you to go for physical therapy. But I want to talk to you about the way you're thinking about this situation. And I want to talk to you about the way you're thinking about the healing. Because if you just think you're gonna go first physical therapy, and you're not going to be thinking about in a healthy way, that you're not going to gain as much as you can. And I said, Dr. So and so you're just telling me that to me, because I'm a shrink. And he laughed. He said, No, I'm telling that to you, because that's the way I practice with my athletes. We want to think, and heal, and the to go hand in hand. I thought that was fascinating.
Paul Barnett 11:10
Oh, it's a it's a fascinating idea, isn't it? You are what you think I mean, it's such a, such a powerful idea that all of us can bring into our day, every day. Brendon, could I come over to you? And I'd like to, I'd like to pick up this idea that Darren was talking about, you know, controlling your your biology as a leader. But can I ask, what's the flow on effect, if you do that as the leader, what's, what's the flow on effects for team performance?
Dr Brendan 11:38
Yeah, most notably, what we do is provide cursory science and language for people to do. Number one, be educated on what their biology, how the nervous system works, how they identify their biological see how they optimize that biological sleep, and then interventions in which they implement knowledge in the personal life, but also in the professional life. And when they do that, and they're in a more optimal save, which and polyvagal theory, kind of theory that we borrow from you implement a lot of these ideas, maybe in the most optimal state called ventral vagal state, a lot of people are familiar with the stress state the fight or flight, the sympathetic state, and then also the Free State be mobilized. So when you have these explicit and implicit messages are sent from the brain to the body and the body of the brain. And then that gets projected to your environment, as well as changing your interpretation of environment. When that's optimized, and one that's in a good place you're gonna have on the micro level, you're gonna have athletes who are accepting challenges, who had increased effort, and enhanced perseverance, have improved learning, they're more apt to take risks and play and train in making connections with people.
And what we try to do is we try to educate coaches on how when they do this, at the environmental level, all of this will flow down to create a connected and cohesive environment that allows culture develop allows connection, I happen to allow personal interpersonal communication to be efficient, and meaningful. And when these environments are homeostatic, people feel safe, they feel that they are in a position to connect with others and have that reciprocation come back. And when we're all working together, especially in a team environment, especially in a sporting environment, a large group team like rugby, soccer, or volleyball, or lacrosse or even baseball. That's where a lot of the magic happens. And teams are able to work as a group collectively, and play above some of their talent levels as well as navigate the ups and downs as a group that a lot of teams might experience.[PB3]
Paul Barnett 14:11
I think anyone listening will know that the emotional state of the person leading the group there in impacts their life. I mean, I know from my own experience running, running organizations, you know, the more I can be calm, the more that will infect everybody else. So no, in fact, probably not the right word, but the more that it will flow within the group I, I was thinking about when we when I was preparing for today I was thinking about this idea of what you can do in the moment to to control your emotions. But I'd like to take that probably like to ask you that from a habit point of view. Darren, what can we do every day to make sure that we're in this state as a leader Where we are controlling our emotions to the extent that we can do it, that it's possible?
Dr Darren 15:07
So to give an example of like, the end result, perhaps, and then come back to the Detail is, Brendan alluded to these two states of ventral vagal state, which you can think of as this grounded connected state. And the sympathetic state that typically what people will call fight or flight, but there's also a space in between those Blendr hybrid of the two, and you're getting parts of each of those. And that's kind of where flow state, you know, we talked about athletes talked about being in flow, you know, that peak performance state, that's where that lives is somewhere between that pull of the ventral vagal state grounded, connected, feeling safe and sympathetic with the energy mobilization, the increased focus that comes with it. And the more we train these skills, the more we can kind of modulate our biology between those states. So it's not an off and on type of switch. If that makes sense, we want more of like a dimmer switch, if you will, or an ability to kind of turn the dial a little bit between those two states. And that comes with with training these skills with learning to identify our biological states, and learning to adjust them through our breathing through our posture, through our muscle tone, through the thoughts that we that we have known our running inner dialogue with our self talk, and all of these things together. Help us to manage our biology as best as possible.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 17:16
Brandon, I'd like to ask you about some examples. We're using coaches do this well. But first, if I could ask, Dr. Michael. If I rolled up if we were working together, and I asked you, I want to find the line between passion and emotional control better, I want to find that line. I want to be a little bit better at it. What would we work on together?
17:36
Well, it's human nature for people to get fired up about things that we feel deeply, deeply man matter to us. Ashen, gives you purpose. And we will talk about what is your what do you define is your purpose? What are you making yourself passionate about? But uncontrolled emotions can cloud our judgment and affect your performance on the field off the field in the office at home? When we're driving? And strain our relationships lead to regret? So we have to turn inward, I focus a lot on what are you thinking? That's making you feel this way? Check your intentions? Is the is your is your passion in the service of others? Or is it to inflate your own ego? Examine anger occur underlying any emotional intensity that you might have? What? What is it that you are triggering yourself about?
The more self aware you are? Some people call it emotional intelligence? Are you aware of your own emotions? Can you regulate your emotions, you're aware of other people's emotions and you know how to respond to them. The more self aware self awareness you build, the less you'll be hijacked by knee jerk reactions. And so we talked earlier about the space between stimulus and response. Whenever we're upset, whenever our passions get going, we have to consciously pause to gain some control. And whether that's breathing or movement. Thinking differently, of course, drives all that. The fact is that we have to breathe slowly and give our prefrontal cortex time to override our hyper reactive amygdala reflect before responding. I could go on but that's sort of an answer of where we go with this. [PB5] No, it's
Paul Barnett 19:49
fascinating, I think, you know, I've interviewed more than 200 coaches and I can count on one hand, the number of them which were that old school hiree Emotional type, most of them, I believe, had had a modicum of emotional control, or had at least reflected on emotional control and tried to think about ways they could fold it into their, into their daily actions. In fact, I've got this great quote from Hugh McCutcheon, the American Gold Medal volleyball coach, he also coached the American women to the silver at the 2012 Olympics. And he talks about controlling yourself, so you can control your performance. And I'll insert that audio quote here.
Hugh McCutcheon 20:34
I just think, you know, we all have a responsibility, if you if you coach, you know, you got across the line, when you get to practice or whatever it is, or the match, no matter what stuff you've got going on, and we've all got stuff going on, you've got to be able to step in and say, Hey, I'm going to do my job and help these athletes or help our team to, to win or whatever it is, and, and be able to control that versus let whatever, good day bad day, you're having somehow dictate how you're going to be in those moments. Because I've, as you've seen, I've got to spend a lot of time with a lot of great people. And one of them was a guy named Ken revisit a renowned sports psychologist whose work has been mainly in baseball, but he worked with us a little bit with our 2008 group, well, actually quite a bit in that 2007 2008. And we were great friends until he unfortunately passed away a few years ago, that Ken would say, Hey, if you if you can control yourself, you can control your performance. And I think that's a really big deal. And I think there are very few coaches that want to understand that that connection between, hey, we're going to have emotional responses to the moment of competition, or maybe we're going to have emotional responses in practice. But we also have the ability to respond to that response. And if we let our emotions kind of dictate our actions, then we're going to be on this inevitable roller coaster of performance. But if we can say, hey, I get it that I'm upset right now. But I can take a breath and I can reset and that me being upset doesn't have to dictate what I do next, my actions are the things that I get to really use as the defining characteristic of what I'm going to do and my sporting realm. So that ability to create that space, I guess, between emotion and action is something that I'm a big believer in.
Paul Barnett 22:18
Brandon, I'd love to hear from you on examples. As you look across the the coaching and maybe even the leadership landscape in America. I don't want to get all political, but there are some leaders in America that emotional control is potentially a strong suit. But as you look across the coaching landscape, where do you see people exhibiting this skill well,
Dr Brendan 22:44
so this happens all over in may and may have different levels as coaches at the youth level, the high school, the collegiate level, aim, the professional level, who are tackling people in very unique ways and they may not fully understand that they're regulating biology can make themselves available for us, to connect with them to build that cohesion, to bring the best out of them, but from my purview. A lot of this is distrust without the science and a book for poetry called by Dan Coyle talks about Gregg Popovich from the San Antonio Spurs, who will go and have a conversation with you. Most of the time, it won't be about basketball. Well on your birthday, he'll find out what your favorite wine is, and he'll send that to you. Steve Kerr is famous for doing that work. He'll have players run timeouts. And he's done a lot of that front load work to build that trust to allow them to do that. Don Staley is does really well with South Carolina's women's basketball. Kelly Amonte Hiller has done this, who there's been a lot of podcasts and shares, I've heard ideas, but Northwest men's women's lacrosse team, one person who might fly on the radar I think a lot of people are worried about in the next couple of years. So my interview, not too long ago, Ashley Preston University of North University in New Orleans, volleyball, she's doing amazing things where she is regulating her biology and connecting with others. As well as most recently one of my girlfriends shout out to my buddy David Brom at Northwestern football, who, through a crisis of some administrative issues at Northwestern, he was able to galvanize a team and bring them back together and they may be doing these things with their biology without even realize how they're doing it. And our goal is to help them be more planning, be more educated and be more purposeful about how they're doing some missteps and put themselves in a good physiological position. So Other people can pick up on that, and then be the best versions of themselves. And that the term for that is neuro ception. So our nervous system is projecting out in the world. And people are subconsciously connecting with us, based off of that physiology based on that disposition, based off the tone of our voice, or the way in which our eyes are dilated, or the way in which we're communicating, and the enthusiasm that we bring to our job, and others coaches doing this in so many capacities, but there's a lot of people that I've experienced. Recently, I've started working with a wire between Chicago and coach Sam Harris. It's been a pleasure working with him, but he is exemplifying this, from top to bottom, and all all areas of the organization.
Paul Barnett 25:51
Look, as someone who has lived and worked most of his life in countries that don't speak English, you know, this, the power of your your physicality, the way that you present yourself to communicate with people is very, very apparent to me anyway. But without
Dr Brendan 26:06
getting too far in the weeds. Darren occupies over how people evolve. But why by communication, before we developed words, was through body language was through the way in which we the distance in which we talked to people, and that has, that isn't that hasn't gone away? I think we're not as aware of it as we used to be. But worse than me, but so what is our physiology?
Paul Barnett 26:35
Darren, I'd like to ask you a question actually. Because as much as as much as we can, cognitively understand this theory, this idea, as a leader, I need to control my emotions. And we can put little, you know, I see some people use wristbands to sort of click them, you know, they snap themselves back into the moment. But if we were in a situation where leading a team could be an under 12 basketball team could be a company, it could be a sports team, if we're in a situation where we've, we've responded detrimentally. In fact, it's probably more of a reaction than a response, because we haven't considered it if we've reacted detrimentally. What have you learned about the most important next steps to get things back on track?
Dr Darren 27:19
Yeah, well, I think, Paul, that's, that's a crucial question and topic, because we're all going to encounter that it doesn't matter how much we're able to embody these ideas, or how well trained we are in these ideas, there will always inevitably come a time when the situation and cues around us, in a sense, overwhelm our nervous system.
And whatever training we put in in advance, and ended up leading us into that fight or flight or freeze and submit states that lead to that detrimental response that you're referring to. And so I think, in those moments, the first and most important steps are to just simply acknowledge whatever the situation is, itself, but also whatever our response has been, and where our biology has gone as a reaction, and to do so with his little criticism or judgment as possible. And to just take it in, in a sense, as, hey, this is just a piece of information. It's something that has happened in the world around us, within us, maybe between us and other individuals in the situation. And it doesn't define us, it doesn't predict what's going to happen next. It's just what has occurred to this point. And the next step after that is to begin to implement these mind and body skills to help shift our biology in the direction that we would like. So for instance, if something has happened, it's caused us to become, for example, very angry in response to the situation. And we just acknowledge that that's been our reaction, that the situation is what it is, we can then start to employ skills to ground ourselves to regulate ourselves back to a more ventral vagal state. And as an example, breathing is a highly effective strategy to shift our biological states. And it's also one that to be honest, is not always fully understood. And as a result, unintentionally, we may choose to use breathing patterns that are not optimal for what we're trying to do.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 29:26
I have a friend that runs a large organization. I won't say what city is in because people might know. And he actually sits at home on the couch with a breathing device that measures the level of his outbreath to sort of easy to get his body in sync every day. But Darren, is there someone is there a story you can share with us on someone you've worked with that you've made some even small improvements by using these techniques?
Dr Darren 29:52
Sure. So you know, the first one that comes to mind, I know we're kind of orienting this discussion towards coaches. But to be honest, like we said, from the beginning, the biology is common amongst all of us. So the exact professional craft probably doesn't matter so much. But the first example that comes to mind is a surgeon who is having difficulties with anxiety. Right before very complicated or difficult surgeries to do. And this was somebody who had been in practice for just under 10 years at the time, and hadn't really had that problem up until a year or two before we started working together. And he had come across some breathing patterns, just wherever he had and talking with other people or listening to reading podcasts, what have you about doing equal breathing like equal inflation hold exhalation holes, and he would do that right before his surgeries. And he found that at times, that would be very helpful. And other times it wouldn't. Same breathing pattern, different effects. And as we unpack that a little bit, what really became clear is that in the times where it wouldn't work was the times where he was particularly anxious, who's really into that sympathetic state. And if we understand those breathing patterns, and what is going on, if we want to really bring ourselves from a sympathetic state to a more grounded state, that equal inhalation exhalation can be helpful to a degree, but not as helpful as a prolonged exhalation, breathing pattern. So for instance, if you had a four second inhalation, followed by a six, second exhalation, and as soon as we implemented that small little change that if he felt he was particularly worried or anxious about what he was about to do in a surgery, to use that type of breathing pattern, he felt that that helps us settle out a lot of that anxiety. So a good example of a few of the things we've talked about, firstly, recognizing the situation that he's encountering, but also within his body, and then implementing some skills that he's used to help shift his biology in a direction that's better aligned with what his current tasks are.
Paul Barnett 32:08
Wow, fascinating. Talk to Michael, I'm reading about Pat Summitt. At the minute. I didn't know much about her and I reading her books and watching some footage of her as well. And it prompted me to want to ask you can poise in a pressure situation ever counterproductive?
32:29
That's a great question. And the answer is absolutely, yes. Let me give you three or four different examples of what how that happened. One is complacency. If COys makes someone overly confident to the point of brushing off, an urgent warning, or a risk to themselves, or teammates, their business, their family, then there, they could be placing themselves and others in real danger may come across as passive or nonchalant. When real situational gravity calls for a swift, decisive action. So that's one thing. Another is alienation.
Everyone else around you is very upset, concerned. They're not toys, and you're walking around like, you know, you're above it all. So this is going to create an emotional distance from other than gives the impression of not caring. What's going on with him? How can What does he think he is he did? We're in trouble. And he's walking around like, everything's cool. So that's another issue. I think, what I would call false assurances. In other words, you tend to look this calm and stoic. So a leader can downplay a brewing crisis. And when that happens, that can obscure problems that need attention. So there's another example where pressure and poise don't necessarily go along. And then another area fourth, one, customize, enabling. In other words, if keeping up appearances of competence, boys, is prioritized over admitting strain, I need some help. That's going to keep you away from getting help you need. So poise in a pressure situation, and certainly be counterproductive. Now, I'm not talking about the need to look like you're coming unraveled. But we don't always have to have it together. We can recognize there's danger. Other people are hurting. I need some help. And I think that that's a way of balance these two coaching[PB7]
Dr Brendan 34:57
standpoint. We talked a lot about Darren brown I hope that you will always have to be in ventral vagal state, if the game is on the line, if you need to energize a player's at halftime, you oscillate back or down to the sympathetic state and use that energy use some of those physiological processes that cortisol being released adrenaline, norepinephrine, things that people are gonna pick up on and use that energy. But when you're all connected, when you have a coach at trust that you trust, when you have a group of people around you, but you don't feel like you're the only one in the room pulling the rope, that that energy is now optimized. So it's not just that you're always on the collect those coaches who come in at halftime, and change the tone of the team in the game. By using that sympathetic state, I'm, I'm a coach, I'm a former athlete. And sometimes you need to be a little bit fiery. But a lot of that front loaded work of building relationships and building trust. And building that connection, are some of the things that we've been talking about where if a person comes and ask you for, you know, say after and go over plays are asked you to describe the offense and the defense a little bit more, you're in a ventral vagal state where you can connect with them. And you say, You know what, I got 25 minutes for this person, one on one. And we're really going to work through this progression and learn and compensate. But that font, all the work that if we're losing by two scores at halftime, or is the bottom of the ninth in baseball, or you know, game three, and volleyball, and the coach gives a fiery speech, the players feed off of that. And then they're able to use that because they feel safe, they feel connected. But at the same time, we got to get moving. And so it's not just that you always have to be calm, you always have to be even keel. So it was really helpful when you're in the meeting room, when you're in the locker room, when you're taking time out of your day to ask how they're doing as a person when you're worried about your family about where they come from. But when the game's on the line, we also need that, that that energy, that movement, and mobilization that the sympathetic state can provide for us.
37:23
Boys. Let me put it this way. When we have boys we can be firing. We are we have boys, we can be forceful, because we have self control. We're talking about out of control, blowing up losing our minds not thinking, a coach who comes into the locker room because a fiery speech knows what he or she is doing.
Dr Brendan 37:55
One of my former coaches, who's now at USC, as a linebacker coach, Matt ends, he says it most of the time is really, really true. communicates players in the most palatable tone and way possible. They also reserves a weight, and that small, little snippet, to use that emotion to use that fire to motivate players and motivate himself to move the groups of people. And you will want to be on 10 All the time. Because you have to be able to get the time sometimes at the right moment. And in the education, we provide coaches that we teach them how to calm themselves, for a lot of the administrative component of it, a lot of the organizational component of it, but we also teach them how you optimize the utilize the ability, you bring that that fiery competitive nature to themselves, as well as a team.
Paul Barnett 38:56
Gentleman, it's been fascinating getting to know a little bit more about the work that you do. I will put all the links in the show notes so people can can understand and get in contact with you. And I look forward to following on and learning more about the change that you're making in the world when it comes to people bringing more control and having more ownership over their emotions. So I'd like to thank you for your time today.
39:19
Thank you very much.
Dr Darren 39:20
Yeah. Thanks very much, Paul.
Dr Brendan 39:21
Thank you, Paul.