interview Stacey podcastle edited
Thu, May 29, 2025 3:33PM • 35:59
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Netball, coaching, Australian team, Commonwealth Games, World Cup, leadership, high performance, team culture, player development, competition, strategy, mental resilience, collaboration, success, legacy.
SPEAKERS
Paul Barnett, Stacey Marinkovich
Paul Barnett 00:00
Stacey Marinkovic, good morning and welcome to the great coaches podcast. It's
Stacey Marinkovich 00:05
a pleasure to be here. I'm really looking forward to this.
Paul Barnett 00:09
Oh, Stacey. I've been trying to get your email address and your contact details for a couple of years, so I'm thrilled to that you could carve out some time to be with us as well. Thank you, Stacey, can I just start by asking where you are in the world and what you've been up to so far today?
Stacey Marinkovich 00:24
Yeah. So I'm based in Brisbane. Moved from Perth a couple of years ago when I got the the Australian job. And I guess for me, it's really taken on the, just really the Australian position. I was doing the dual role between the West Coast fever and the diamonds when I first came into the job, because I still needed to be hands on coaching for a little period of time. But, you know, now that I've got my my feet on the ground, in the in the position, it's certainly a different kind of busy I've got a five year old son now who's just started prep and, you know, just trying to, I guess, really prepared the squad for our our second cycle in terms of going towards the Commonwealth Games and and a World Cup. And, you know, trying to do something that really not any other Australian team has done, is getting back to back World Cups and Commonwealth Games consecutively. We've certainly won, you know, consecutive World Cups, and we've had comm games, but to get double of both is certainly something that would be pretty transformational for for this group of players. So it's a it's a big ask, given where netball is at the moment, it's tight, it's ferocious, the competition is is very, very close, and we're kind of at that cutting edge of, how do we keep having that competitive advantage and making the most of our opportunities when they present?
Paul Barnett 01:50
Well, we're going to get into back to back World Cups. We're going to get into, I guess, the competition for talent that's holding up with female sport becoming bigger and bigger, particularly in Australia and places like the US. But I'd like to start by winding the clock back a little bit actually, because you played for a couple of great coaches yourself. You played for Norma Plummer, who we've interviewed here on the podcast, and you played for gay Teddy, who I didn't know much about before today, but you've also coached against Nolan Todd as well, the fabulous New Zealand coach. But I'm wondering, Stacey, from your position on the court and the sidelines watching these great coaches, what do you think the really great ones do differently that sets them apart?
Stacey Marinkovich 02:33
Yeah, I think I have been pretty privileged with my playing career, to the extent that I got, and obviously being in the position you come up, even when it was sunk, or super netball, coming up against great coaches. And I think the things that's probably really stood out is everyone's pretty authentic to their way of doing things. And I think that really depends on the group of players that you've got. And I guess there's different styles. And in the way in which you can do things, there's many different ways to skin a cat, so they say. And I think the way in which the coaches that I see great Norma, you know, was a real coach that demanded standards and intent in what they they did gay, was very holistic and questioned and, you know, wanted you to get a really deep understanding of what you were doing out on on the court. And you know, no lane is, you know, a real strategist of the game. She, you know, she's really reinvented, I think, the New Zealand program, you know, several times, and she's shown that through her club programs as well. So these coaches never stand still. They're constantly evolving. They're having to perform under the greatest of pressures, and they've had, you know, great success and great relationships with their their players over that period of time, ever
Paul Barnett 03:56
standing still in relationships? I mean, your career is sort of a embodiment of that idea. You had a successful career. You retired in 2009, straight into the financial world, but then very quickly back into the coaching world, as an assistant under Norma, what changed to bring you back into coaching?
Stacey Marinkovich 04:19
Yeah, I think there's a period of time, you know, I played in the the ANZ Championships, what it was back in the time, and, you know, I wasn't. I probably, you know, maximized my career to the level that I could and didn't represent the diamonds. And I guess I still had a huge passion for the sport. I love the intricacies of it and how to lead in that space. I was captain of a number of teams in Western Australia and and even due through my junior playing career, you know, when I was representing Queensland, so I had a part that I really thrived around connecting people and, you know, trying to align people towards a common. Goal and and putting things in place, you know, through being on the court. And I guess when I finished my career, I stepped away. Back then I was working full time and playing. So it was an it was a natural part of what we did. And I certainly was in that insurance broking finance kind of area, and that taught me different leadership skills. It taught me things of how to, you know, work with people and management above me, to work within teams with me, and also to lead people that were working, you know, sort of under that space. And the opportunity came when, when Norma stepped into the head coaching role at West Coast fever, they were looking for a full time position, which had to be a jewel. It was the assistant coach and also the High Performance Manager. And I guess back then, the money wasn't as great as what, you know, being in insurance broking and things like that. But I pretty much said to my husband back then, I said, I you know, this is my passion. This is what I really love. And he said, Go for it. Like, you know, we have a backup plan. I've got another, you know, qualification that I can fall back into. And we sort of jumped in. And Norma gave me that opportunity at fever. And, you know, having the dual role, I was able to really work on the understanding of the game on the court, but I was also to I evolved my understanding of a high performance system, and you know,
that's what head coaching is about. Now it's not just about the X's and O's on the court. It's actually, how do you bring a group of experts together working in the one direction to get the transfer of that information and insight and challenge points to your players, and then been, then been able to execute under pressure and on a really consistent basis. So that's sort of been that, that journey and my passion, you know, I love the game, you know, I've played it since I was eight years old. I've been through the Netball Australia player pathway and the coaching pathway, so I've sort of seen how it's built in. You know where the challenge points are for athletes across that period of time, but also for staff. And you know how that actually, you know the things that you've got to take on board when you bring a group of people together.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 07:22
So you have this great experience. You're working under Norma, you're learning your trade, you're doing the high performance role, and you're getting exposure to some wonderful role models around Australia. But it's only two short years Norma moves aside, and you step into the head coaching role. Even though you'd had all this preparation, what do you remember most surprising you when you stepped into that role?
Stacey Marinkovich 07:48
Um, I think the the part of being able to, I guess, really have confidence within yourself. I think when you stand into that a high performance coach or the lead of a program. Obviously, the responsibility now sits on your your shoulders, and there's so many access points to you, whether that's through social media, whether that's through club coaches, you know, family, friends, everyone has a viewpoint of how the game could or couldn't be played, you know, moves that you should make. You know a lot of different things. And when things don't go well, it's also how do you have an inner confidence?
So for me, the biggest point was to be able to know what it was that I was trying to achieve, the steps for it. And I think that's probably where I've become quite methodical and strategic in that space is that, you know, I understand the reasons I make decisions, and you know, whether they come off or they don't, it gives me a really good avenue to be able to review what we've done. So we keep things because of a certain decision making process, or we evolve that thinking and go, Okay, well, that didn't work. What steered us in that direction? And what do we have to change as a consequence? And I think when you've got some sort of consistency in how you process your program, it gives you that confidence to stay to to the job at hand, but also to your vision, as opposed to being in the emotional roller coaster of what high performance sport you know potentially can be with wins losses. You know there's and riding the waves. When you're in a team sport, you're connected to a group of people. So, you know, everyone is slightly different, and you can't, you know, go up and down with every single player. You've got to be that, that person that they can look to and go, we're in good hands. We've got clear direction. I've got my role clarity, and I can go and do, do my job.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 09:59
It's a great. Use two great metaphors in there, you know, the roller coaster and the wave. But you also mentioned the word confidence twice. I'm wondering what routines you have in place to keep that confidence at a at a steady state or a state that's strong enough to give the players that that support they need? Yeah,
Stacey Marinkovich 10:18
I think part of it, you've got to have your own support network. And I think sometimes, being in the thick of it, you need some people around you, or that surround you to be able to get perspective and have a place where you can process that emotion at the same time. So, you know, I've worked with performance psychologists before. I've got a really strong mentor in Glen Stewart, who used to be the High Performance Manager at the West Coast Eagles. So over a period of time, have learnt different skill sets from somebody outside of of our sport.
And I think it's just been able to give yourself that space and time to have some deeper thinking, or have some space away to be able to just get everything in a line, so that when you're front facing to the athletes or to your staff, that you know you've got a sense of control, and it's it's okay to show some vulnerability at the same time. And I think that's my biggest learning as a coach is that you don't have to be in control of everything every single moment, and people actually value seeing that vulnerable side. You know, when it's pressure, when there's stress, when there's emotion, you get greater buy in because they see you being human and that you can have the same experiences as the people that you're working with. [PB3]
Paul Barnett 11:46
Was there a person or an event that triggered that learning?
Stacey Marinkovich 11:54
Um, not specifically. I think there's a part where, um, yeah, probably someone said to me one time, the quicker you get into the coaching, the quicker you go into coaching, the sooner you're going to be sacked. And I was very ambitious, and, you know, really motivated to progress my career career. Youknow, I like taking the steps, and I like taking them, you know, when, you think you're capable of them, and I was probably one of the youngest SSN coaches at the time, and I guess that was the part was when somebody said, you know, do you really want to go into it now? You know, you've got time to keep evolving your skill sets and and things like that. And probably to that point. You know, there's, there wasn't a long tenure at West Coast fever or the Perth Orioles before that. The coaches were really cyclical in that sort of three year, two to three years, and then somebody else came into the role.
And I guess I wanted to make sure my career was, was longer in that space. And, you know, you want to make sure you're ready. So there's not a lot of jobs in head coaching positions, so when you get afforded that position, you want to make sure that you make the most of it and that you're ready to to make your mark. And I guess that's the part where confidence and an inner belief had to be there, regardless of the noise that sits outside, to be able to keep you going in the right direction.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 13:29
Stacey, I had this great quote from you. I'd love to read it to you, actually, before I ask the question. You say my coaching philosophy has always been to evolve my athletes by embedding a collaborative purpose generate principles and standards that enable players, support staff, stakeholders and the wider netball community to thrive. It's a great it's a great rallying cry. And I can just having met you today, I can see how you have coalesced your energy behind, behind this idea. But the last part caught my eye, this, this idea of thriving, support stuff, stakeholders in the Netball community. Tell me it's such a powerful word. But what does thriving mean to you?
Stacey Marinkovich 14:11
Think, for me, it's been able to bring your expertise to the table, and you're not doing things in a survival mode. And I guess that's probably something that I learned as a player, is that sometimes you think you have a five minute window to make the most, if not, you'll be taken off the court, or you're going out there to prove to people that you're good enough. And I think when you're in that thriving sort of mentality, you're actually just embracing the moment, and you're very present in it. You're not thinking about the consequence in five minutes time, in 15 minutes time, you know, at the end of the season, you're actually living the experience. And I think that's what thriving is, is embracing all our. Aspects of it. And I think that's the part where, you know, I want my staff to be able to walk into a room and have really robust discussions. It's not to be little or to challenge or to say someone was right or wrong or this didn't work. It's actually to go, let's lay it all out there, so that we actually get the best plan, and if we've got the great relationships and connection, then we walk out aligned, ready to execute what it is that we all collaboratively come up with. [PB5]
So, yeah, it's, you know, there's, there's parts in sport, you know, strength and conditioning coaches, physios, all that they have to make really tough decisions at time, keep a player out accept an element of risk, and sometimes that risk, you know, does go, you know, in the way in which you you wished it didn't, but we're all there together. And I think that's the part when people can walk away and go, it's not the end of my career. I'm not going to be sacked because of one moment. And it's the same with players. I want them to be able to step out on the court knowing that they've got to play a role. And if that's for five minutes, and they they really embrace that five minutes, if it's for the 60 minutes of the game, then they live that moment. So yeah, that's that's probably where thriving is such a key point for me, as opposed to proving and surviving,
Paul Barnett 16:24
love, this idea of thriving, not being about survival mode. But I'm wondering, I'm wondering whether the whether or not this has always been part of your makeup you when you were applying for the diamonds job, the Australian job, I understand they put you through extensive was the word they used, extensive psychological testing. Did you gather any new insights about yourself or your leadership style through that process?
Stacey Marinkovich 16:51
I probably got more reinforcement as to the process. I think part of my build through being able to go for that position was to do some leadership training, to do the psychological training, to actually understand who I was and and I think that comes from the part of I needed to have an inner confidence. I needed to understand under moments of pressure and stress, where was I naturally going to gravitate and is that a good thing? Would everyone you know connect with that in a team sport. Or is there different ways I needed to understand how you're heading this direction, but you got to pull back now. You've got to you've got to get yourself into this space, because that's where everyone will need you at that point in time. So I think for me, going through the Netball Australia process, I walked away from it going, you know, what I've actually really demonstrated who I am, what I value, what my psychological intent would be at different points. And I kind of walked away from the interview process going, they know who I am, and you know, it might be the right person at the this particular point in time, or, you know, there might be something that's best suited to the direction, but I was, I guess that's the part where I had great comfort that I'd done my my best and I stayed true to who I was. And I think that's the biggest part, also my, you know, little journey at this point is, you know, if you try to be someone you're not, people will find that out, and it generally doesn't work for you. So that's, that's the part that I wanted to make sure I brought to the table.
Paul Barnett 18:33
One of the things I hear you talk about a lot is self talk. There's some great videos actually, on, I think it's one of the Netball sites, as well as on YouTube, about you talking about self talk and particularly ways to manage it when it becomes negative, something that many of us face no matter what role or station you have in life. Can you share with us your experience on working with negative self talk with some of the the athletes you've been involved with?
Stacey Marinkovich 19:04
Yeah, I guess, you know, obviously we work with performance psychologists and wellbeing consultants and things like that. So there's a part that a coach plays, and then there's parts where you need that, the expertise to help support that, that process, I think for me, it's, it's to actually give perspective to the players,
I think generally, high performance people in general, whether that's in corporate, you know, whether it's in sport, you know, are always looking for what's next and are also critiquing every intricate part of of what they're doing. And I think an athlete's performance is never as bad as what they perceive it to be. And I think it's also the balance of how they absorb information. I think there's athletes that I've worked with, you can give five really positive pieces of information and feedback, and you give them one work on or error. Area where it, you know, didn't go as well, and that's the one that they hold on to, and that's the part that you know circulates, and then, you know, starts to transpire into other areas of their game. So I I'm very much around, you know, I do use data. I do use footage. And I guess it's the conversation to have that regular touch point with the athletes so they actually understand where their performance is at, and you're not leaving them in a, you know, in a space where they're trying to interpret and make sense of things, when maybe they just a clear conversation. Will just keep the headspace in the in the positive, proactive one, as opposed to the part where it becomes a bit destructive.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 20:48
So I imagine in these teams that you're, you've been leading their representative teams, so they're, there's people that have competing for a position at a state or a national level. And I'm, I'm wondering if we take this idea a step forward further, how you've learned, or what you've learned around building groups that are both competitive but also supportive of each other, because that is an environment you'll often find in the boardroom.
Stacey Marinkovich 21:17
Yeah, and it's um. It's probably the, the biggest part of the diamonds, I think, in terms of how much success you actually have. I think when you're in a club environment, in sun court, super netball, you've got players that are contracted, and you've got 10 so those 10 players are going to play every week, or they're going to be on the road, or they're, you know, you know, in the competition environment, whereas the diamonds, you've got a squad, you know, potentially, of 18 to 22 including your invitees, then you're selecting to 12. And then you select, you know, your starting line, and then how you how you construct through the game. And I think that's the part where you actually have got the best players, you know, in Australia, in the one room, competing for a spot. But also we have a very short period of time. You might have 1011, days. Sometimes it's been five days to galvanize a group of people to perform, you know, a certain strategy in that whilst they're also competing to actually get the dress, and there's so much pride in the diamonds dress that, you know, they they desperately want to have that on their back and, you know, representing the people that got them there, and all those type of things. But we talk a lot about the coopetition, and I guess that's the part where they need to be able to bring their best version. They need to be able to bring the the we before the me. So they've got to prepare themselves well to be able to push as hard as they can in training to make sure that we're training it as standard. And they also have to have the mentality that, you know, they've got to support if somebody's ahead of them, well, I'm going to train as hard as I can because at the end of the day, my contribution to the diamond stress is making sure that the team that steps out there is ready to perform. So we, we definitely talk about this part where it is really competitive, but it's actually working towards the one vision, and that's tough, like, it's really tough when you're you're not selected in something, or you got this close, and then you got the call to say you weren't a part of it, but they still turn up to camp and they give everything that they've got, because their role at that point in time is to train and push and challenge the person that's getting that that opportunity, and at the same time, the person that's, you know, and that dress is going, you know, what it's It's more than just me. When I step out there with this dress on, I represent the squad and what we've done together, so it sounds really wordy, and actions obviously speak a lot louder than that, and that's probably where I think there's been such sustained success across the generation of the diamonds is that a team steps out there, because you generally have a group of people that come into camps, pushing that final team that steps out to represent.
Paul Barnett 24:32
Want to talk a little bit more about tough. You said, it can be tough sometimes, and I'd like to frame that with another one of your quotes. You say, when it comes to leadership, you've got to find your style, and the courts a great place to practice. So have a think about the way you lead in critical moments. You talked about tough just there, and I'm wondering if you could share with us a critical moment that you went through and how it shaped you as a leader.
Stacey Marinkovich 24:58
Problem I've. Games was probably a big point. So it was my first big marquee event. We just lost to Jamaica in the rounds. And it was part of that journey that you went, Okay. We'd been going really well. We were really comfortable with where we were at. But international netball, it's, you know, 1% difference between the the the opposition now, and we, we've had losses against, you know, top four teams and things like that. So it's, it's a very real contest. And when we had that loss to Jamaica, it was, it was quite interesting to see how the group reacted. And I guess our part was the players were pretty quiet, so they went and did their recovery and review and things like that. And and us as high performance staff, go right. We need to lean and we need to stand up here. We need to show really clear direction, because, literally, we played in the afternoon, I think, and we pretty much had the game, you know, the next day, to be able to bounce back, get that win, to be able to go into a gold medal match. And I think you know, for that, you had to, I guess, stick to process. And I think that's what we did, is making sure that in a tough situation where there's pressure, and it would have been very easy to start thinking about, what if, what if we won? What if we don't win? What? How are the girls going to be like, how are we going to wake up in the morning? But we actually just went into it was like our game mode off the court. It's okay, right? Review, let's get this the simplicity of the message. It's got to be presented with confidence the girls. It's not about reinventing, it's not about changing. It's actually to emphasize the belief in what we have done and what we're about to do. And I think that's the part where, you know, sport is high pressure. And I guess the other experience was the World Cup, when we'd lost to England, and same situation. And I think the part that in my head was there is I'd watch Sun court, super netball all year, and Fox, who's obviously a great supporter, and with Ko, with netball, they, they played this ad the whole year. So I will saw it every game, every week for the entire season. And Cath Cox, you know, a greater the game. And these players were basically saying the the they were advertising for World Cup. And said, No, Australian team has not made a World Cup final. So that was that was out there, week in, week out, week in, week out. And then we lost to England. So then again, we had to go and play a game to get to the gold medal match. And it was what I dreamt about. We finished the game. I went back to, you know, the hotel we'd done our review. I went to bed, and that ad was, it was like, it was light in my head, and I was like, Oh my gosh. So I woke up. Didn't feel particularly great, but I think that's the part where the strength of our high performance team, the connection we had. And again, process like being able to to target your focus around what it is that was right in front of you, and being present prepared us to be able to walk into that game. So it wasn't about not making the final again, it was actually thriving in the opportunity to take on this, this great, great game. And, you know, we were playing, think it was Jamaica in, in that one to get through, and they came out guns blazing. They've got phenomenal athletes across, across their team, and you know, we're able to get that win. So it's probably the two first marquee events that I've been a part of, we we had some genuine pressure, some genuine, you know, sort of bumps in the road, but the way in which we had prepared for it gave us great insight as to how we needed to prepare when we were in in those moments.
Paul Barnett 29:18
I think that responding to those challenges has really been a hallmark of your your time with the diamond so far, but prefer
Stacey Marinkovich 29:24
not to have them, yeah, and then go away anytime soon, that's for sure.
Paul Barnett 29:29
Stacy, you talk so much about culture in this interview. You know, more than just me, the dress belief, but we're we're a big country, and your players are dispersed, and you don't see them very often. How do how do you build connection and keep that alive in that kind of environment?
Stacey Marinkovich 29:50
Yeah, it's, it's something that's been a work in progress, to be honest, and I don't think we've necessarily got the final solution yet. And I think it's. Yeah, it's gradually evolving through testing and trying different things. You know, the Suncor super netball competition is a ferocious competition. And you know, players need to be connected to their clubs. They have to live the culture in which they are evolved in in their different areas. And you know, there's only so much absorption they can have, you know, thinking and breathing netball, so we've got to find the right time and space for the diamonds to engage and interact into those environments. And, you know, I think, you know, we've certainly done things a little bit different in this pre season, you know, getting around the training environments. And half, half the thing is, is building the relationships with the clubs and, you know, the transparency of information and making sure that we're there to support, you know, those programs that are in place and and vice versa, when there's the transition of those players into the diamonds environment. So there's, there's definitely a part where you can't do this on your own. You just don't pick up the phone and, you know, decide to talk to every single diamonds athlete week in, week out, one. It's not, it's not realistic. And also, you need to give players space to to do what they need to do.
But I guess what has been great through our leadership group is that they genuinely want to connect throughout the season. So the battles you see on the Sun court, super netball court, when they're going flat out, they'll be taking each other out. They'll, you know, running the house down against each other. They can actually separate that when they finish their games and then catch up for a coffee and and make sure that they're still evolving those connections outside of their club environments. And you know, that's a pretty special thing to be able to do. And I think it just shows the strength of what the diamond stress means. We've had times coming straight out of a grand final of Sun court super netball, going straight into a World Cup preparation. So you got players that didn't make the grand final, players that won the grand final, players that didn't win the grand final, but the moment they put the diamonds uniform on, they become a group and a team, and they can separate, you know, that emotion and experience that they've literally had probably two days ago. So, yeah, it's cultures. It's big because we have such small times together, and you've got to get the connection and cohesion that's part of you know, the major success is you're playing against world's best athletes. They've everyone's got skills, everyone knows how to play the game, but it's the best team that actually gets the performance and the result at the end of the day.[PB7]
Paul Barnett 32:54
Stacey, maybe just one final question. I'm a bit loathe to ask it actually, given that I don't want to jinx you, because you just did to your next cycle, but at some point you will hang up that whistle, you'll go on to do other great things, I'm sure, maybe even coaching in other sports. But when you do finish your time with the diamonds and you reflect on it, how do you hope people describe the legacy that you've left?
Stacey Marinkovich 33:22
And I think we, we've spoken before, but, you know, women's sport is, is really competitive, and I think we're at that part where we just want to be leaders in sport, period, male, female, it's, it's actually having, you know, a strong representation, a strong voice, being able to advocate for things of, you know, in high performance, in sports science, in in those kind of areas. But also, you know, I think sport also advocates for a lot of other messages, you know, health, you know, we've got a really strong participant participation pathway. So I think that's for me, it's more the holistic approach of what I've been able to contribute to to the Australian team, and, you know, our pathway and our organization, and you know, I want to walk away when that moment comes, whether it's, you know, by choice or or not, it's actually to go, you know what? It's. It's just that particular point in time is, is the end point for for me, in the sport, and I know that it'll go to someone that will then continue that, that legacy, because there's not many other teams that have had the extent of success that the diamonds have had. And we're very, very proud of it. And I'm, you know, proud to be a part of that, that group of people that have been able to lead the team to some gold medals and a World Cup.[PB8]
Paul Barnett 35:29
Stacey, I hope you get the chance to be in charge of that decision when it comes and it doesn't matter to you, it's
Stacey Marinkovich 35:34
for you never know what's going to happen, but I'll be certainly doing everything I can to make sure that we have the success that we we so desire.
Paul Barnett 35:43
Stacey, it's been wonderful chatting with you today and getting to to to understand the person behind the the public face that we so often see. And I can't thank you enough for for sharing your story with us. No
Stacey Marinkovich 35:56
problem. Been pleasure. You.