mindset edit
Tue, Sep 19, 2023 1:57PM • 32:51
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
mindset, coach, routines, team, high performance, rugby, enables, game, athlete, sport, individual, question, mantra, emotion, play, legacy, important, create, paul, mark
SPEAKERS
Mark Zimmerman, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Mark Zimmerman. Good afternoon, and welcome to the great coaches podcast.
Mark Zimmerman 00:04
Good afternoon, Paul, thanks very much for having me on the show.
Paul Barnett 00:08
I'm very excited to chat with you, Mark. I know that we've been communicating for a while trying to make this happen. So I'm really excited to learn all about mindset from you today. But Mark something really simple to get his going. Where are you in the world? And what have you been up to so far today?
Mark Zimmerman 00:25
Well, Paul, today I'm in Sydney, I do travel a fair bit for my for my work, but I'm enjoying yesterday was a public holiday in Australia. So we have decided to stick around in Sydney. And I'll leave Sydney this afternoon to head down the south coast. I've got a client down there, which I'll be spending some time with.
Paul Barnett 00:44
Well, terrific. We're glad to get a little bit of time with you then before you head off again, Mark. I know that rugby is your passion, but you also work across all sports. And I'm really intrigued to kick us off. What is mindset in the context of high performance sport?
Mark Zimmerman 01:03
Yeah, that's correct. Rugby is my passion sport. And after studying coaching for I think the better part of six years, I found that there was a sweet spot in sports. I was able to bring my my learnings in from the corporate world, my learnings through studying coaching, and applying it into my passion, which is Rugby Union, but But yeah, 100% Correct. It's not just rugby union. Mindset is something I feel we can easily apply to any team sports and individuals. So in the context of your question, what is mindset?
Often people stumble on that question, because it sounds a lot easier than what it is to answer. So let me let me have a stab at it. I think, from a mindset coaches perspective, mindset is your mental outlook, and how that either helps or hinders your performance in a professional or just a competitive arena. Right. So that's what mindset at a very basic level means to me, right? Again, within that competitive sport, arena mindset, also is what enables some teams or individuals to have what often we refer to as the edge, what is the edge we have over our competitor. And I also think that mindset is having that ability to be comfortable within yourself. And accepting that there is no professional sport or sports person that expects 100%, perfection 100% of the time. Because if we look at reality, even the world's best number one in any sport, you will find will make a mistake. So mindset is the ability to be comfortable in knowing that. And then creating an edge over your competition in that mental headspace. And having the ability to have an outlook that helps you in your sporting journey.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 03:19
This might sound a bit straightforward, then. But with everything else, an athlete has to focus on their health, their body, their diet, their preparation. Why is mindset so important, and something they should focus on?
Mark Zimmerman 03:36
That is probably the most primary question we get asked when when engaging with new teams or individuals in that high performance arena? It's a great question. Mindset is important. I think I love this analogy. Actually, I'll come back to this analogy. Now, the analogy is, when we go out and buy ourselves, we treat ourselves to a new smartphone. And we take the phone out the box, essentially, the hardware that we're holding in our heads is a high performance machine. Right now that high performance machine might be the latest model, it might be able to do unbelievable things. But that machine cannot operate unless it has software updates. Right. And this is the analogy I use when speaking to coaches and clubs and teams. So if we think of ourselves as high performance athletes, or our team as a high performance team, the hardware is the team or the individual. All right, but it's the software that enables this titanium is made out of steel individual or team to operate at its optimum best. You can have the best if we use rugby union As an example, you can have the the best scrum team, you can have the best backline, you can have the best tight five, you could have the best center combination, you can have the best kicker in your league or in your division or whatever. But if the if the individual or the team to collectively are not in the right, aligned mindset and headspace, they will never be able to operate that machine. Truth to its true and full potential. So, why is mindset important? We, we have to accept. In that analogy, that mindset is the software that enables the hardware to operate at its best. And that means embracing mindset, before you have to perform during a performance, as well as after the performance, which is the phase when we learn the most because it's your performance has become past tense at that moment. And if you are a high performance athlete or a high performance team, or in any competitive environment, we all know that teams that embrace continuous improvement is one of the mantras of the teams that go on to to succeed more often than not. And consistency, and discipline come together in that space, where we call mindset. Right? That's that's the sweet spot. If I've answered that question, correct the poll, I think I think that's what you were asking why is it important? Now you didn't answer it? You?
Paul Barnett 06:45
You said something interesting. There, you said, the right and aligned mindset. So my first question is, what is the right mindset? And the second question, how do you align mindsets across an organization?
Mark Zimmerman 07:01
That that is a very, very tricky thing to do. As individuals, we struggled to find the right mindset, sometimes, depending on what's going on in our personal lives. We all you know, we all have things going on in general. So aligning mindsets, is a tricky thing, because we have to take back a few steps. We try and understand not just the alignment mindsets, often I would say to a coach, or coaches. What are the values that this group of individuals are aspiring to live by? Have we even defined our set of values? What is our our team mantra? Do we have one? Where is this team hitting? What are the key milestones if we reverse engineer those key milestones because they will differ from team to team and person to person. That's only once we understand we break everything down to the to the bare roots of it, that we can then begin to align. If we don't know what the common objectives are, what the goals are, what the milestones need to be to achieve those goals. If we don't understand what our values are, what our mission is, it's very difficult to create an alignment, because you have no context or a base from which to build a lab and from. So what are the types of mindsets? Well, you know, we, I think we all heard of this growth mindset versus fixed mindset. We'll touch on that shortly. But I feel fundamentally it's the key to aligning mindsets, is understanding human beings. And at its absolute, core basic. Coaches will often call me and say we've got a great bunch of players. You know, whether it's girls rugby, women's rugby, women's rugby, it doesn't matter. They were a great squad great talent. And there may be a misalignment between the Coach and the coaching team. And the actual performance team, there might be a misalignment between within the team. from season to season, as players get swapped in and out, you may feel that you've ended last season on a high end coming into this season. All it takes is one or two characters to come into the to the new team to either disrupt or or dilute a particular kind of culture or alignment that was already existing. So we do work. We do a lot of work with the individual to understand the individual. We then do work with, with the leadership teams to to ensure that it's been communicated to everyone what the expectations are, and that it's very clear because you cannot create a alignment if there's a lack of clarity in amongst the squad. Mark, can
Paul Barnett 10:07
you tell me about the routines or the mindset routines that you put in place to help people prepare for a competition or an event?
Mark Zimmerman 10:21
Routines are routines are good and bad to a degree, right? It's, I guess it's like behaviors, you have good behaviors and bad behaviors that serve you well, and some don't. So if your routines are very similar, and I'll explain why it's very difficult to expect a team to perform well, if a routine is very set in his way. And then the team, let's say, for example, has to travel to an away game. And the the routine gets disrupted. So what we've what we try and do is we try and formulate the basis for good habits, and very simple routine sets. So of the individual and the team very well. But we also prepare the team for the curveballs outside of the routine. Especially teams that go on tour a lot, play away a lot. Routines are important. For the basics. It's things like starting Well, starting while doesn't mean, let's wake up at the right time and get to the game early enough. That doesn't mean starting well. Starting off means what happens in the days leading up to a high performance or big game. Are you sleeping? Well? are you consuming the right foods? are you consuming alcohol? Are you getting enough rest? Have you had enough downtime, so that the routine are starting? Well, we focus a lot on starting well, and starting well, then the next layer down from that means will give yourself more than enough time. Because that pressure is already going to be upon us. What we want to avoid is unwanted pressure. Let's not get there late, let's not, let's not do our research on what happens when we get there. Do we know where we need to go? Do we know where we need to be?
So routines are important because routines form a part of structure and structure and discipline go hand in hand. The kind of routine that doesn't serve us well, is a routine for example, that leads to us having an unbalanced inner voice. If we have certain habits that don't serve either iron performance or the team's performance or not aligned with the team's goals and values, that inner voice that we often listen to, becomes too distorted in our minds. And now we come back to that word minds. The mindset and routine means to be exceptionally well balanced. And and you know, not all coaches in sports, have studied psychology or have studied coaching in mindset, or have or have got enough experience to to there might be exceptional coaches, when it comes to technical coaching. But this business of establishing strong routines, not not. And strong habits is not something that all coaches are are familiar with.[PB2]
Paul Barnett 13:42
Right? Indeed, many of them describe themselves in interviews as amateur psychologists. And I guess the emphasis is often on the word amateur. But that's pre competition. But how do you help people with their mindset? In the competition in the heat of battle? On the field of play? Or perhaps even in the boardroom? Or in the meeting room? How do you prepare them for those moments?
Mark Zimmerman 14:05
Very, very simply. The halftime talk is a very powerful talk. And I think often it's what you don't say that counts the most. There's a lot of psychology involved, I believe in in building mental toughness and mental strength. The example of give you a poll is if a team is behind at halftime. And I think one of the coaches I worked with us this example and resonated so well with me. I use it a lot. Now. If a team's down at halftime, we look at the team and we say what's the score in the second half? Nil nil. Right? It's nil nil it doesn't matter. The behind your score in the second half is nil nil. The second question I ask is, Does everyone know what their role is? Does everybody understand what they are? All in function is. So simple question. Right? We don't have to overcomplicate it. And the third question or statement I make in the changing room on the side of the field is Do you remember when wasn't too long ago or it was just last season? Do you remember when, when we were in a similar position. And Jason did that quick chip and go, caught the opposition of God. And we we were back in the lead within within 10 minutes. Or when Katie did that amazing damage in midfield, and we got the ball out to Susie really quickly, and she scored in the in the far corner. It's reminding why we are here, what our roles are, that someone has had enough belief in you, to put you there in the first place. So now you have to have belief in yourself. It's a simple reminder. And we're not talking about nonverbal communication. That's very powerful as well. Because when you got a five minute or 10 minute halftime break, doesn't matter what sport it is, could be any sport. Your nonverbal communication is just as important as your verbal communication. It's, it's just smiling. It's ensuring that the team understand yes, this pressure, acknowledge that the competition's strong, their strong side, we've never beaten them, or we've beaten them once. So we haven't beaten them in a long time, their strong side, we knew it, but we've we've prepared for this. Do you know what your role is? Do you know that you were picked because we believe in you. And it's sometimes then when I come back to the nonverbal communication, the nonverbal communication is important because the coaches that appear to be very emotional. In other words, the opposite of of cool heads and hot hearts. Those coaches, that anger doesn't really serve, and it's it's difficult to regulate your emotions, right? We will talk about emotions in a minute. But nonverbal communication is absolutely just as important as what you say,
Paul Barnett 17:24
let's, let's talk about emotions, because they are elements of our personality that fluctuate wildly. When we're in competition, when we're in stressful moments, we can get changes. And those changes can cause problems to those around us. So when it comes to managing emotions in critical moments, have you found some techniques that work better than others?
Mark Zimmerman 17:50
There's one very simple technique that I feel is probably the most effective. And it's a question I ask of an individual or of the team. And that question is, have you given permission to anyone to trigger an emotion? And I'll pause. And I'll wait to see how that question gets processed. And more often than not, if the silence is a little bit too long, I'll ask them, I'll repeat the question. I'll say, do you give permission to anybody to trigger an emotion? By the way, an emotion which is impacting your performance? And if they say no, Coach, I said, Well, if you haven't given permission, why are you enabling them? To trigger an emotion? And it's a very powerful question to ask because you can almost see in the eyes of the person you're engaging with that they're going well I haven't given. [PB3]
And then if we have to use an example, if we've got a little bit of time, I think cricket has the best example of of where sledging is a big part of the game. When you're a batsman out there in the middle of an oval, imagine you're at the MCG or you playing you know, in the subcontinent, you got 100,000 people in a stadium, and you you're one of two batsman out there, it's a very lonely place to be for professional batsman, right. And the sole job of the bowlers, and the wicket keeper is to try and put the bed spin off kilter. And one of the ways they do that, is through sledging. They're trying to trigger an emotion without permission, right? And I think cricket has given us the best example of how to deal with that. And there are examples throughout the professional era where we know certain certain batsman could never ever get around the fact that they were enabling someone to trigger an emotion and there were those that could just switch off and ignore it. So that question when it comes to emotion, that's my go to question. Did you give someone permission to trigger that emotion? And emotion? And if the answer's no, I'll say, Well, ultimately, you go, if you didn't give permission, why are you enabling it? Permission denied rubber stamp move on the Medicare don't enable have enable that behavior? It'll it'll run out of oxygen. It has an option. You kill it.
Paul Barnett 20:55
My mike, I know a lot of the work you do with athletes is, is one on one. But is there an example of an athlete or a team that you've worked with? And you've helped them? Improve? Doesn't have to be monumentally could just be a couple of steps forward with some of these tools that you've talked about today?
Mark Zimmerman 21:16
Yeah, there's, you know, I coach, our coach all the way from under 11. You know, grassroots team with boys and girls, some of which have have special needs, some on the on the autism spectrum, some of that high range ADHD. So whether you're talking about under 10s, under elevens, in rugby union, all the way through to junior wallabies, our coach, players that are in that junior one of the squad, our coach players have played Super Rugby. And I've coached some of Sydney's and Australia's top schools and as well as top coaches. When it comes to emotions, this is something that we get asked a lot, the techniques, we try and keep it simple. I mean, we often forget the most the most basic solutions to things in life is to not overcomplicate it, right. So you take a group of, of professional or competitive sporting individuals or a team. And I'm just saying to them When last did you practice your breathing? And let go, they look at me like I'm insane. They are What do you mean coach? At all, when was your practice? Considered breathing windows? Did you go on a Guided Breathing course, or YouTube session with one of these Guided Breathing, you know, there's so much benefit to just getting your breathing. Correct, the ripple effect it has on on oneself on your psyche on your why you think that how you compose yourself and how you everything to do with just breathing alone is an incredibly powerful tool. When it comes to creating balance. Before a high performance is required. We we actually rehearse creating extreme noise and pressure and trying to put someone off when they're when they're about to throw a ball in the line or to take a kick. So the whole team will, will go and stand around the person who's about to take the kick. And we'll make as much noise as we can. And you know, there's always a bit of banter that goes maybe a little bit too close to the mark, but we really trying to put our best two kickers off the game. And the only way we can do that is to replicate a hostile environment. So rehearsal is important. Breathing is important. When we talk about other other techniques outside of asking, you know, the question about did you have permission to trigger an emotion, it's remembering your mantra. Now, Paul, this is probably one of the most powerful tools that I stumbled upon in recent months, is, particularly in a one to one, I would have watched a player over a few performances. And I would make notes about the things that I feel are hindering their performance. I'll then write down between five and 10 statements. And I'll sit down and I'll read them out to that to that athlete. And I'll ask them to pick just one. One that just one that they can take into that sporting arena with them. Just before kickoff starts. And the reason I do that is because as humans, we tried to process a lot in a competitive environment. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves, quite often. It's not our opposite number. That's our biggest competitor. It's ourselves. It's us versus us, right to be better today than we were last week can be better next week than we were today. But if we take one mantra into a competitive arena with us It can feel at times that the wheels are falling off. But if you've got your one go to mantra, your one comment or one saying or one, one snippet or nugget of gold, that you can hold on to it immediately, at a subconscious level first, and then at a conscious level, enables you to reset, balance, and then proceed at a high performance level. And that, for me has been one of the most impactful techniques that we've used because, and I know it's impactful because I now receive messages straight after a high performance game from roughly half the team saying, coach them. That mantra went onto the field with today. That was the difference between why we won and why we didn't lose, or why is the best game I've had all season or why I played so well today. And that nugget of gold for me. And that's also you know, Paul, we have to, we have to appreciate that. I think I mentioned it earlier on the start of the podcast, there is no such thing as getting things 100%, right 100% of the time, we have to be comfortable with that. So it's not the act of making a mistake that we get judged on. I say to any athlete, it's what happens immediately after that counts. No one's going to remember the tackle you missed or the the kick you missed or the ball you dropped. But they're going to remember what happened straight afterwards. Did that then ruin the rest of your game? Did you enslave yourself? Did you confine yourself to that? Are you replaying that on a repeat loop in your mind? Because if you are, you need to let it go very quickly. And that that's a key. That's something we work a lot on, is understanding that mistakes happen. It's what happens immediately after that counts.
Paul Barnett 27:05
So tell me how you do that. If I was to work with you, and we were in your office there. How would you work with not an athlete? I guess? So maybe it's a bad example mark. Maybe we should take a young rugby player that you're working with?
Mark Zimmerman 27:20
Well, that's that's easy, because I'll see I'm rugby player is the who's the rugby idol? Who do they who do they aspire to play live? Right? And it's, it's always wonderful listening to the answers because you're gonna have an array of answers. But let's say someone says for example, oh, my hero when I was growing up was you know, Jeremy Paul, right? Yeah, he's won World Cups. He's won Super Rugby title is Bledisloe Cup. So great. Jeremy Paul's a great athlete. He's a good friend of mine. By the way, Jeremy Paul. And you know, you might be able to say what Jeremy ever make any mistakes. Sure he did. But why did he keep getting selected? It's because what happened after the mistakes that impressed the coaches so much. You know, when Ben Donaldson at the end of 2022 season, and he came on for the last 510 minutes of the Wallabies game. And he missed you missed a kick. It was his first cap first run for the Wallabies. He missed the kick. Ben's a great kicker, by the way. But it wasn't the act of missing their kick. That ruled him out of wallabies selection. Eddie Jones has picked him all right. Eddie Jones picked him for the for the World Cup squad. So I always say to any person who's who do you look up to in the game? Or who do you look up to in life? Because if they say that person didn't make any mistakes, or golden if they didn't make mistakes, or how did they learn? Because for me, the greatest opportunity to learn is from our mistakes. So we creating perspective, yeah, poor, we have to create a perspective for the professional athlete to athlete so emerging athletes to understand that making a mistake is a part of how we grow and learn. And if you're not making mistakes and learning from them, and how can you create a point of perspective from which to grow.
Paul Barnett 29:23
Mark, you have such passion for the topic. You also have a lot of passion for rugby, I know that you coach, a young team here in Sydney, and you work with with professional players, you cover all the whole gamut and all the layers of rugby, but perhaps just one final question. And I guess I'd like to know what the legacy is that you hope you're leaving, as both a coach of younger athletes and as a mindset coach to these emerging and present professional players.
Mark Zimmerman 29:56
Yeah, Paul, I feel that this journey we're on in life. It's And you know, our professional sporting careers is only a small portion of that. So the skills I'm trying to instill into the grassroots level, at sort of a competitive level, and then a professional level. And then, actually, more importantly, it's what comes after the final games played. And you then no longer either able to, or, or can play the sport you love. For me, it's instilling life skills into people's hearts and minds, that enable them to enjoy the playing path, their paying careers, and that they set up for a very enjoyable life after the final games being played. And I would say this in terms of legacy. Legacy is a word that many people don't understand what what legacy truly means. But if you're going to create a legacy, I would like to be known by anyone who I coach, as someone who didn't just help them on their sporting journey, I've helped them in life with basic life skills, to build resilience, to build mental toughness, to build mental strength, to have a healthy mental mindset. For me, that legacy all comes down to bundling it all up together. And for them to remember, coach them and the team had on the mark, who helped them not just on the sport, but in life in general. Their communication skills to understand themselves better, to interact with each other better, to respect themselves and each other better. That for me would be a great legacy. And it's funny that you said the word legacy. This is a great book called legacy which travels with me everywhere. I've read it a few times. And they legacy is important. There's no two ways about it. And that's what we were trying to create. For me, it's making the difference on and off the field for the women and men and the boys and girls who just enjoy playing sports. That for me is legacy.
Paul Barnett 32:25
I think that's a pretty good place for us to finish. Mark. I thank you so much for your time today. I've enjoyed learning about mindset. I've enjoyed getting to know you as well too. And I look forward to meeting you somewhere soon for that beer we talked about.
Mark Zimmerman 32:39
Thank you so much, Paul are really I'm looking forward to Don't worry, it's my shots because your absolute Gentleman, thank you for having me on the podcast. And for the listeners. Thank you for your time as well.