shaun caven edit
Fri, Aug 11, 2023 12:45PM • 41:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coach, athletes, australia, sport, team, years, paralympic, scotland, shawn, kayaking, uk, win, started, paralympics, opportunity, america, story, legacy, inspirational, paddle
SPEAKERS
Shaun Caven, Paul Barnett
Paul Barnett 00:00
Shawn Kevin. Good afternoon, and welcome to the Great coach's podcast.
Shaun Caven 00:05
How are you? Thank you for having me. Oh,
Paul Barnett 00:08
looking forward to speaking to you. We've been planning this one for a while. And I guess you and I normally ask people where they are, though in the world and what they've been up to. But I might change that. And can you just tell me where you were recently in the world and what you weren't recently up to?
Shaun Caven 00:22
Recently, we were in Hungary at the World Cup, which is sort of a major event, to start the year as a sort of benchmark to get an idea where you are in relation to your competition, because we've got the World Championships later in the year in Germany, which is the qualifier for the Paralympic Games next year. So if you're in the top six, you get an Olympic sport. And then if you're in the top 10, or the next top for the following year, you get another sport potentially comes available then. So you basically need to be at the top 10 to go to the pile and pick. So it's not like some people think we're, if you're the best in the country you get to represent, you need to be the best in the country aren't the top 10 in the planet, before you get the Envy sort of thing. So we were in Hungary, and we won, or my athletes won two gold medals, or silver medal, a bronze medal, and three of our E finals, which means technically, we, if we had the same results at the World Championships would probably qualify six boats to go forward to the Paralympic Games, which would be excellent.
Paul Barnett 01:40
Shawn, congratulations. It's a great way to start the interview talking about Budapest. And of course, we're going to go all the way back to Scotland in the USA and the UK before we arrive in Australia, but I guess I should ask my normal question. Tell me where are you in the world? And what have you been doing so far?
Shaun Caven 01:56
I'm currently in the Gold Coast and sunny Australia. And it's an extremely nice winter day. Probably significantly better than any summer day in Scotland, I would say so it's it's fantastic living here. It's never really cold. sometimes wonder, however, managed to go kayaking in Scotland in the winter. You know, it just it's such a difference here. I've definitely become soft. A couple of Scottish athletes that were and Zagat and Hungary were recently where they disowned me because I was wearing too many clothes.
Paul Barnett 02:31
We're going to talk about that, that journey when you started going hiking, but I want to I want to start where we were, I often begin, which is great coaches now. Sean, your story's fascinating. You've been to multiple multiple para Olympics, you've been to multiple Olympics world and national championships. So I imagine you've seen some good and and perhaps some not so good coaches up close. So from this experience, what is it you think the great ones the great coaches do differently? That sets them apart?
Shaun Caven 03:02
I think they're great coaches. And you've heard a lot on your podcast. So I am extremely humbled and honored to even get get a shout out to this. But I'd say the, the I think they get in their own way. And I think it's, it's different for everybody.
They make a real deep connection, whether athlete or player dependent on the sport. And I think they've got an insatiable willingness to learn, and they always think they can learn more. And they always feel like probably like I do a little bit that. I don't know. But that I need to remember that. What is that? I really don't know. And I feel like I'm always at the bottom of the next mountain to climb. So I think it's it's a continuous learning process, which the reason why I started listening to this podcast was to try and land off other coaches. And then that, that desire for knowledge, and then the willingness to just be selfless and help other people become better at their given sport, or just better human beings in general.[PB1]
Paul Barnett 04:15
He talked earlier about starting canoeing in the cold, cold waters of Scotland. But I'd like to talk about because you you started coaching when you were just 16. And I'm curious, what was the impetus to start?
Shaun Caven 04:29
Well, the impetus was we were members of a little club, which was started by my scout leader at the time, who, when I was eight, I thought he was really old, but he was probably about 20. So you know, you just he'd have no appreciation for age. You just assume everybody's old when you're eight. And he's he started a little club and then we it was almost, it was almost like a given that you would help the younger kids that join The Club and kind of look after them, I wouldn't say, with a benefit of hindsight I was actually caught Jr was more just help them get on the ward and demonstrate by basically and copy and what we were doing, which I suppose is a form of coaching. But it wasn't as formalized as that. At that point, it was more to help and, and then when I was 18, I got a formalized coaching qualification, which was with a British canoe union, I saw a minimum standard coaching to shows that I was insured because then I was employed as a coach in the summer between school terms, so that was, that was how it started. Then, the king of Korea, there was a there was an opportunity to win the lottery came on in the UK, which was, for the first time ever, you could actually be a professional kayak coach, like a full time job, not just a part time thing that he did sort of semi voluntary, and we'd get maybe your flights covered in event. So when the Lord came on board, I got the opportunity to be the National Junior coach for UK what, which was the sort of first time that they've employed somebody for the UK, and that kind of coaching position because previous to that, or the coaches had been foreign to the UK, so a Hungarian or Russian guy, a French lady, an Australian, actually, because at that time in the UK, with EAS be in the sort of, I would say the Shane and later sport and progress in terms of knowledge and knowledge gain, if you didn't have an Australian then your program, you are seen as not forward thinking, for sure. And it's almost ironic now that I'm in Australia, coaching an Australian team, where if you don't have somebody for the UK in your program, it's almost like the opposite now. So it's kind of come full circle in that regard.
Paul Barnett 07:04
SEAN The interesting paucity of stories, you've coached the national teams of Scotland, the USA, the UK, and now Australia. It's quite an amazing journey. And I'm wondering what it's taught you about the things that unite people.
Shaun Caven 07:20
I find a lot of factors that I was I was coaching, more or less full team in the UK for 10 years, then I was in America for 10 years. And I've been in Australia for four and a bit now. So I'm just wondering if I've got a six year time frame in Australia, but we just don't actually receive permanent residency in Australia. So the plan is to stay for a little bit longer. And definitely the weather. I think, hopefully that 10 year time frame gets gets extended a lot further.
But to answer your question, I think what unites people, even though, Scotland, England, America and Australia, they all speak English as the predominant language. I think, culturally, there's a lot of differences. And there's a lot of different cultures. You know, definitely in America, for sure, with a population. But I think what unites people is a sense of purpose and then looking at, they're looking at sport as a vehicle to like, compete. I think people love competing. And I think people like helping people to compete. [PB2]
And definitely, coach in America is definitely seen on a different level than most other countries. I think a coach in America has seen as I mean, like, you know, a headmaster in a school in Scotland maybe was when I was brought up there. So it's on a different level. I think sometimes it's maybe going a little bit too far that the coach becomes more important than the rest of the team, which I kind of don't agree with, because the players have to play or the athletes have to compete. So I see that a lot and particularly division one football, it's almost like the coach is more important to the fan base than who the players are, which I think has gone a little bit too far. The other way.
Paul Barnett 09:24
Shawn, you started there by saying it's the purpose that unites people. What's your purpose as a coach?
Shaun Caven 09:33
So we're part of Olympic, I think there's another layer of there's another layer above, Olympic, which is, each person, olympic or paralympic has got a massively important story behind them. And, and I think the more you can learn about the athletes, and the more we can sell their stories, the more people will be in awe of those athletes, and what and what they can do. Because it'd be fantastic if we could get the average person to compete against some of the athletes, because they'd get blown away. And then people would realize just how amazing some of these people[PB3]
Paul Barnett 11:14
is there a story you could share with us that just illustrates how deeply you feel about the the uniqueness and the amazingness if there is such a word of the people you train and coach.
Shaun Caven 11:27
I mean, the people are training coach that the stories almost speak for themselves. So I mean, if you if you go online, and look at the Australian kayaking team website, the stories of they're not just incredible human beings, and they, they all have individual challenges and individual ways of ended up at the Paralympics. You know, some of the stories are traumatic, some of them, they're just, they were born with a disability and have overcome that disability as much as possible and gone on to achieve greatness. So yeah, there is the fantastic people. And then one story that jumps out to me that can illustrates how, how amazing some of these people are. I was at the Paralympics in Rio, and there was a young kid, I think he was Mexican. And I went into the swimming pool one day to just do a few laps and an outdoor swimming pool. And I was about to dive in. And he said, stop and ask, what and he he wanted to inform me that the pool was cold. And he was concerned for my well being because I was old. Right? And I just I looked at him and he had one arm, half a leg is other leg was missing. And he had a he had three fingers or sort of skin a shoulder. And so I he explained to me that he was swimming that night and 100 meals and I said I've adopted you as my favorite athlete now. And the sister was there as his coach, and I just saw that illustrated, he had that much level of concern for me. And you know, I had virtually no concern for him because when he died in the pool, he was so much faster than I was anyway. But I think that just illustrates the kind of people that that is the other given and the wanted help others. And they really don't expect they don't want sympathy. They just want to be like accepted and then as athletes and which they are. And that's a massive consideration because there is that maybe misconception in the public that the paddle on pins, it's a different their their ability is way beyond even more stable body people have got like if you can do if you think as a simple exercise, like a pull up, or a chin as it's called an Australia, keep chronic pull up being from America, hang 50 kilos off your waist and do five reps. That's what most of the athletes can do. You know. So that's the sort of level athletic ability some of these people have got, which is incredible, whether you're able bodied or not.
.
Paul Barnett 14:15
Shawn, who were the early mentors that have shaped your approach to coaching.
Shaun Caven 14:20
And early mentors was the first guy that I mentioned there was a was a scout leader. And I thought he was old when I was eight, but he was actually 20 ish. And we went actually on in later years to pilot a key to together and race together. But he just told me that if you keep coming back, you know, eventually you'll get better and we kept practicing and training and I was young I was just playing it wasn't really trained and it was just this is fun. You know this is quite scary, but it's fun. You know we're going to and rapids and and race racing K ones. And if you've ever been in a recent k one, you'll know how difficult it is to balance it on flat war. But we were playing it while you are on these boats and piling on a river. And when I think about it now, it was kind of kind of probably too dangerous, really. But we were naive and didn't really know any different. So we just had a ton of fun.
But I think he taught me the value and just hard work, perseverance and just keeping going. And you will be eventually you'll get to a point where you're successful if you do enough work. And then in terms of professional coaching, probably the first guy I met when I went to the British keen union was a Ukrainian guy who worked for Russia, Alex in the corner of who's revered as one of the leading thinkers and can coach in a nod. And again, in my naivety at the time, I didn't really know, much other guy I just knew was bright, but had a funny accent like myself. So we, we kind of hit it off. And he's just been a minor information for me for 25 years plus, I would suggest and what I really think about when I think about him, No, it's just the amount of thought process he put into his training programs for each individual athlete, and then the sort of laid back execution, and the expectation was always really high, but he would never ever get too stressed about a individual athletes performance on any given day. He said, real faith that ultimately they would be successful, which was the sort of things that we didn't sit down and he taught me stuff. It was just more by osmosis. He would I would ask questions, and he would answer and he would get, eventually he would go IMF, I need to go home. So that was definitely a good mentor.
And then the other lady I mentioned, a French girl Claudine, she, she told me the sort of the benefit of meticulous planning and record keeping she was extremely meticulous on that probably way too meticulous, actually. But she, she sort of taught me that the attention to detail is really, really important, especially the higher the level of performance required, the more attention to detail. That is because it's fine margins between, you know, gold, silver, bronze, and then even making a final not making a final, such a fine margin that, that attention to detail is really, really key.[PB4]
Paul Barnett 17:45
Well, your story takes you from Britain takes you to over to Oklahoma, where you join the University team. And of course, you'd lead them to the national championship. And I'm, I'm so curious to hear about your time in the US and how what's going on to shape you as a leader?
Shaun Caven 18:03
Yeah, that the US thing was an opportunity to start something brand new. It was one of those rare opportunities where there was a rowing club established in the city and there was no kayak or canoe, they didn't even really heard of it. I mean, most people in Oklahoma associated kayak and we're just going fishing on a lake. So there was no real race. And there was no, there was no program at all. So it was one of those opportunities. That is extremely rare. And the fact that if you go to a European country, or even in Australia and want to start a Kayak Club, you're almost inevitably get some member that comes along and tells you that this is how we used to do it in the 60s 70s 80s. And this is how we're going to do it again. And you may or may not disagree. But in that case, it was like I was the guy with one eye and the land of the blind. That responsibility to make everything so I had no coaching assistants, I had no athletes, no officials or administrators. So you literally had to train coerce, help everybody to get around this program. And yeah, we did. We did bring in a few athletes. So we we run it as a club, a university program and start a US national team program. all interlinked. So it was a sort of a hybrid system. There was some juniors that were young kids, there was some high school kids, there was some university athletes, stroke national team athletes as well. So in order to make it a viable proposition, I had essentially three jobs. I had a small job at the university, a job at the club, which was the main amount of money that helped sustain me and support me. And then we had the national team which can occur have not traveled in national events, because kayaking in America is extremely small and is not as well funded as in the UK or Australia. So basically the athletes are self funded in the main unless they've got an individual sponsor.
Paul Barnett 20:18
So should you now coaching para athletes in Australia? Could you tell us how that came about?
Shaun Caven 20:25
Yeah, the Paralympics story started. It was a pretty simple thing. I there was a girl who lived in Michigan. She knew one of the girls that I was coaching in Oklahoma City, and she was a Paralympian and in 2015, she wanted to try and make sure that she got qualified for the Paralympics, because 2016 was the first time kayaking had ever been in the Paralympics. So it's a brand new event for the Paralympics. So she wanted to make sure she could qualify. So she asked us girl, do you think your coach could coach me? And probably a week later, we were at the national championships, and she walked up to me. And she had a prosthetic leg, which I noticed. And she said, Have you ever coached a paddle, paddle Olympic athlete before I went? No. She said, What do you think you could coach me? And I went, Yeah, I think I can. It's kayaking at the end of the day. So if you show up this team, every day, we'll we'll see what we can do. If there's something you can do, or can't do. Let me know and we'll walk over there. So that was kind of really how it started. And then it it kind of snowballed into, she qualified for the Paralympics. I was then asked to help a couple other athletes and then the lady who was the Paralympic team manager for America asked me if I would go is the coach stroke assistance, dog everything. And we went to we went to Rio with three athletes, three female athletes, and we made three finals which considering they had basically funded themselves to be there making three finals was a pretty good achievement. I thought at the time. Yeah, we we would obviously love to do better, but considering the the amount of funding and the the opportunities that some other athletes had had in Europe, or definitely in Australia here to make finals was was a big achievement and have a really small limited budget on three, so athletes that made the final year was a was a good achievement. And that's how that Paralympic journey started for me. And then I got asked if I wanted to come to Australia, and around about where I was supposed to go, Adelaide, and then the lady who was a Paralympic coach here moved on because she had three kids under five. So she wanted to obviously stay at home with them and look after them. And this job is not conducive to looking after really small kids. So she stepped aside and then I was asked if I wanted to move to Adelaide or the Gold Coast. No, I was living in Oklahoma at the time, so I had no idea. But I think I picked the one with a better weather. I'm not going to pick which one is actually better because you know, I've got lots of Australian friends in Adelaide on Gold Coast, but I think I picked the one with a better way that let's say that and that opportunity came in 2019 So I've been coaching in Australia since 2019 with a with a Paralympic team and it's been really fun and it's been definitely an adventure where you know you learn stuff basically every day.
Paul Barnett 23:52
Do you want I want to ask you about athlete and coach trust and whether that bond or whether that relationship changes between para and non para athletes?
Shaun Caven 24:07
No, I don't believe it does. I think I think there's there's a probably a misconception there's a gray or a deeper bond that I don't really see that having coached Olympic or able bodied athletes. I wish we had a new term for that but able bodied because the Paralympic athletes are in some ways more able than I am to do what they do. You know, the boys are quicker than me on the wall and the girls are pretty close to being quicker as well. So they are as able as anybody actually. But for this discussion then the able bodied athlete or paralympic athlete, I don't believe that trust is any different. And I think what we're trying to achieve going from A to B on a on a regatta Lakers fan Just as possible, is the same principles. So the coach in the strength and conditioning physiology is really similar. Obviously there are, we have to make considerations and adjustments for each athlete, but that's generally more equipment based rather than physiology or definitely psychologists just the same. So that trust element, I think you need to trust your athlete, the athlete needs to trust you that you know, you're both in it for the same, the same goals, same ideas, and you're on as much as possible the same page. [PB5]
Now, obviously, some athletes and coaches, the relationship evolves like any relationship between two human beings and some separate part and others stay together for a long haul. I think it's one of those things where sometimes you need to almost let an athlete move on to another coach, because that might be the best option for that athlete. It's not a case of hanging on to people just because they may be successful, which may make you look better than I think if you can let people move on, particularly when I was a junior coach, that that, I think now if I could go back to that, it would be more about preparing athletes for what's ahead rather than the events of currently doing, you know, Junior World Championship or, you know, a junior national championship. Yes, it's important to that athlete at the time. But if if we were preparing them for the future, you're probably going to maximize that opportunity, much better than trying to just prepare them for like a junior event. It's more about preparing the groundwork for the future, because some of the juniors are had at the team and the UK, went on, went on the traditional path through the senior team under 23, then senior team, then on their world championship team, then the Olympic team, some of them went different ways and moved away from the sport and then came back in ultimately ended up with a gold medal at the Olympics, which was the right way. You know, so it's, it's that letting people you know, almost find their own journey, as well. And letting letting go when it's appropriate to let go and then maybe pull back or Steena in a different direction, when you feel is really, really important. But if there's that trust between an athlete and a coach, it's relatively easy to have that harder conversation, if you need to do that. But hopefully, if you've got the trust and everything's going well, then you You very rarely need to have that I don't think I don't think I could do the Alex Ferguson hairdryer. You know, sort of thing. It that, that doesn't come to naturally to me, but if you need to do it, then yeah, it would be a lot effort on my part to do that. I don't think it an individual athletes sport, an individual coach, then you're probably in a situation where you don't need to potentially do that as much as if you're playing when you know, they are team players on a on a on a soccer team.
Paul Barnett 28:13
Shawn, I've got this great quote from you. And I might read it before I ask the question. You say favorite thing about para canoe, the people involved. They are some of the most inspirational people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting and being around the whole Paralympic movement is a beacon of light that the world sorely needs right now. I just love that last sentence, this idea of a beacon of light. So the question is, tell us, what do you think the world right now can learn from the Paralympic movement?
Shaun Caven 28:48
I think what what they can learn is that, you know, whatever your situation is, whatever your daily grinders are, whatever your issue is, look at some of these athletes and what they have been through are still going through and some of them go through things on a daily basis GST even get to training and do a little stock check comparison and go, you know, what, what excusive actually got today to be to be donor. You know, and, and just have a look at that and think how inspirational that is that they're even doing what they're doing on on a daily basis. And then, you know, going on to represent the country and then achieving, you know, great things at the Paralympics. But it's not just about a straight comparison. I think it's, it's learning the stories, listen to what they've got to say.
And I think I think one of the other key things I've seen it, as I've learned numerous times is don't judge a book by its cover. So when I say the people involved, it's also administrators and officials. The staff of Parliament Australia, the staff at paddle Australia that support the Paralympic athletes are in it for the right reasons and their pilots are part of Australia and then Paralympics Australia. It's one of the best team atmospheres I've ever been on. Because everybody bikes one another. And it doesn't really matter what the sport is. Nobody cares. It's how well did you do today? Did you win? Fantastic. Where did you come out? 25th. That's still fantastic. So everybody kind of helps one another and really gets on board and cheer for one another. And I think that there was less jealousy I'd say of results, and more celebration of achievement, which is a really, really refreshing change.[PB6]
Paul Barnett 30:51
And Shawn, what have you learned about resilience? From watching so many different athletes across so many different cultures? And of course, being a parent himself?
Shaun Caven 31:03
Yeah, I mean, I think I think resiliency comes in numerous ways and is displayed and numerous ways. And I think people displayed resiliency through their actions more than their words. And after I've just been around some people that have been through some really traumatic incidents, traumatic illnesses or things and they bounced back, and you think there is there is a higher purpose. I mean, we just raised against a guy who, last year was diagnosed with cancer, I think for again, for the third team, and he's managed to rebound and come back and won a gold medal and beat and beat my athlete, you know, and I go, you know, some days, you've just there is a bigger purpose to the sport, which is, you know, that guy has story coming back, having almost, I don't know how actually serious it was last year, but it was obviously pretty serious. He was he was off training, and he lost a lot of weight. And he comes back and he wins the first race that he's able to compete on a national level. And even though he beat my athlete, you know, you sometimes think that has a bigger purpose to the sport than then just went and some days, letting not letting but somebody else went in, it serves a higher purpose, which is, which is incredible. And it's really kind of inspirational. Yes, hopefully, we can reverse the result at the World Championships and Duesberg best later this year. But even even if we the main goal is to qualify. So I mean, there'll be a tremendous bar between two gay athletes, and the best guy in the day will win. But I mean, in terms of pick an athlete, or choice or those sort of guys, you can't pick it, you know, if you're, if you're being purely neutral, that is amazing. So, yeah, I have a slight bias towards the athletes that I coach on an individual basis. But you know, that supporting those athletes through the story, it's just, it's an incredible honor to be around people like that, and I think I'm just lucky every day to to be around people like that, that, that sought to inspire, you know, an artist artist provide a training program and they follow it. So it's, it's pretty, pretty inspirational to just to be set back somebody's and think, How did I get here, and that's really lucky that I, and is really fortunate, and I love it, you know,[PB7]
Paul Barnett 33:39
I could take you back and introduce you to that 16 year old who was starting out coaching back in the lovely, balmy tropical waters of Scotland, knowing what you know, now, what would you say?
Shaun Caven 33:54
I would have said then, or I would say no, with the benefit of hindsight as I probably should have moved to England earlier than I did. I think I could have had a different sort of career path there. Because I would have been more involved in the sport because there's a there's a bigger senior population there and there's more clubs, that have probably been a better opportunity as an athlete, but then in terms of coaching, what I'd say then is keep learn and learn as much as you can and then ask questions because it makes coaches inherent love answering questions. And it makes it easier because then you know what people are thinking and what they want to know. And then if you keep asking questions, they can help either steer it in a different direction towards the answer that you may not even be aware of, or help you confirm what you think by by the type of question you asked. So I would say ask more questions and then be late. as conscious of yourself in terms of going up to people and making like connections, because if I think how I got in contact with you 40 years ago, there was no way out or wrote to you and said that jokes in episode was the best thing I've had for years. You know, as a former, or a young boy who supported Sally, when Jackson was the coach, stroke manager. I mean, I had no idea of the magnitude of the, what he achieved. And if you think about it, no, okay, you can only have players from a 30 mile radius, and we're gonna win the European Cup. You know, you think about that. And you go, Wow. I mean, if you look at the salary team know, yes, they have an Australian coach. And, you know, there's probably maybe one or two Scottish players in the whole team. And I would probably guess that most of them are not within a 30 mile radius. Selleck Park. So, you know, when you when you think about how I got in contact with you, I probably wouldn't have done that before. But then, you know, it's led to this opportunity for me. Yeah, I'd say, Make, make those connections, and keep as many connections on the go as you can, because you just never know who you're going to bump into. I mean, I bumped into a guy last week, who remembered me from a race in Madrid 25 years ago. And now he's the Spanish team leader. And he, he was a young coach at the time in Spain. And he remembered me coming to our race in Madrid 25 years ago, and came up to me and by name said, Hello, Shawn, how are you? You know, so that's incredible. And then, and when we eventually figured out how we knew one another, yeah, it was 25 years ago, almost to the day that he came up to me. So those contacts are amazing. And you know, you can almost go anywhere on the planet and pick up the phone and go for a paddle with somebody. That's, that's one of the things I really love. And if I'd known at 16, that I have lived in America became an American citizen, got an American wife moved to Australia, I would probably have never believed that that was possible through kayaking, which was definitely not. And coaching was not a traditional career in the UK at that point, for sure.
Paul Barnett 37:26
So I guess that brings us to the final question, Shawn. You've answered it partly in the answer, you've just given them but I'm, I'm still going to ask it. You've still got many, many years ahead of you as a coach six, six years in Australia, at least before you head off to adventure. But when all is said and done, and you do hang out, I guess it's the whistle for pedal coaches, I'm not sure but what's the legacy you'd like to leave behind you as a coach?
Shaun Caven 37:55
I've listened to this question by numerous people on your podcast, and, and I, and I go, Yeah, what legacy that? Does that mean? That I'm old now. But I can even think about leaving a legacy. And I suppose when you get to a certain age, then legacy does become a thing that you could think about. But if there was a legacy, I think you would be hopefully that people remembered Yes, helping them either in the sport, or helping them, you know, outside the sport, and numerous things because your athletes are not just going from A to B on the war it, it's more about the life. And there's other things in the life that that you can help them with, or encourage them like, Yeah, go for that interview, get that job. Or maybe you should think about studying something else, you know, that sort of emerged from being a coach to your parents, your big brother to an uncle, and it can happen in a minute, you know, so I think is that legacy pieces? Probably. Yeah, remember? And, yeah, he helped me in terms of the actual sport, but he also helped me outside the sport as well. That's, that's what I liked to think that that legacy would be, you know, maybe if you ask some former athletes, they would probably tell you a different story. But I'd like to think that that would be the case. [PB8]
And I mean, I'm still in contact with some of the first athletes that I've really coached, to anything above club level. And you know, there are parents now they have they have their own kids and hopefully that maybe they learn something from me that they can pass on to their kids, which would be awesome because I've got a 10 year old boy, you know, and helping him through his summer sport and things. It's it's quite tricky to sort of stand back and not be that parent and let his coach and his chosen sports. Just do their job. You know, and try not to be You know, I'm a national coach with a specific sport, therefore, I know more than you about swimming or martial arts or whatever it is. He's doing that day. So I've definitely tried to stay in the background a little bit and just be supportive. Whatever he chooses to do. So he's told me he's not going to be a kayaker so well, which is fine. I really don't want to live through my kids in terms of being a being a kayaker, but if he may choose to do it in the future, and and if he does, that'll be great. But if he doesn't any pick something else, that's fine. But yeah, that that legacy piece is something maybe I can still have time to shape father, FF I get the opportunity to continue coaching for a long time, which hopefully I can
Paul Barnett 40:46
show and it's been great to spend some time with you today. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I can't wait to see what you and the team do when they're ready to head to Paris and I wish you all the best for the training and the the events that stand between between you and the next Olympics.
Shaun Caven 41:02
Yeah, thanks for that. Thank you.